
what was going to happen was obvious, the show had to make it look good doing it. but it would have been "different" and say fuck it and not follow history....despite endless criticism.
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jinorazi
Korea (South)4948 Posts
![]() what was going to happen was obvious, the show had to make it look good doing it. but it would have been "different" and say fuck it and not follow history....despite endless criticism. | ||
Geo.Rion
7377 Posts
On April 15 2013 02:59 jinorazi wrote: i personally was hoping for a alternative history ![]() what was going to happen was obvious, the show had to make it look good doing it. but it would have been "different" and say fuck it and not follow history....despite endless criticism. if they saved Spartacus and Gannicus the ammount of shitstorm they would have gotten ... Everone would have branded the entire series as a holywood clishce joke. I think they ve done a good job, Gannicus was my favorite ever since he was introduced, and his end delivered. And i was Ok with Spartacus' end as well. It was fairly obvious they are gonna let Agron live, since he was the only non-historical warrior/leader with an important role. Now im just hoping for a spinoff season with Crassus, Caesar and Pompey | ||
hpty603
United States262 Posts
On April 14 2013 23:48 Meiya wrote: + Show Spoiler + IMPORTANT EDIT: This post was made while heavily under the influence of alcohol, but the writer of this post maintains his opinions no matter his level of intoxication. The endless litany of praise for this show is forcing me to speak up: it's not just the loyal denizens of tl.net, it is sites that I expected to be more critical such as /tv/. I can't understand this, because I was a loyal fan of this show for the first two and a bit seasons and watched every episode since. Spartacus was a terrible show. Blood and Sand was fanstastic for what it was, as was Gods of the Arena which stuck to a winning formula. Vengeance was the beginning of a moralising and historically insulting soap opera led by an actor that, while decent in the end, was not the man we grew to love. However, through a combination of lazy writing and incompetent research we ended up with the show that ended just recently, entertaining as it was in a sense. The writers of this show moralised from a very early point, and while there is no evidence of Spartacus giving a single fuck about the plight of slaves in the Republic, it is just anachronistic, lazy and irrelevant work for the overpaid writers of this overrated show to suggest that slavery was this terrible evil when nobody in the day of Spartacus, even Spartacus himself, seemed to really care about the institution of slavery. This is not so much the fault of the show as the fault of terrible modern 'history' that shoves modern moralistic subjectivity down the throats of men and women that lived thousands of years ago, but it as painful as it is disappointing. However: it is most important for me to point out how grossly irrelevant the events of this overacted series were to reality, and I will list the most frustrating: -Crassus was not a gladiator-brawling, chivalrous 'leader by example': while courageous, Crassus became the lead man against Spartacus through a combination of cash up the sleeve to pay new legions and willingness to risk defeat against an enemy of such low repute as slaves: Rome certainly never feared they would lose their global influence to Spartacus and his slaves, and even their fear that Rome would be ravaged by Spartacus proved typical Roman paranoiae: to be frank, Spartacus had less chance to conquer Rome than did Alexander the Great. -Tiberius did not exist, Crassus had two real children and neither of them were named Tiberius nor did they bear any historical similarity to this fictional character -Caesar Dictator was too busy serving under Lucullus against Mithridates in the East to give a single fuck about Crassus' little war against slaves, and not only shared not a single character trait with the Caesar in the show but also did not share a single piece of historical similarity -Spartacus was never a crusader for the freedom of all slaves, modern historians with their liberal sensibilities have forced their own beliefs in regards to slavery into the mouth of Spartacus, who was a bad motherfucker but more of a bandit than an idealist, according to the sources. -MOST IMPORTANTLY OF ALL: Roman legions were not useless organisations that could not combat gladiators. Legions were the best fighting forces on earth before, during and after the 3rd Servile War. Legionaries made better soldiers than gladiators (this is not even arguable), they possessed superior discipline and therefore fighting power which is evident in their conduct in situations such as those faced by Caesar Dictator, where Roman legionaries were capable of executing complex manoeuvres in contact under any circumstances and against barbarian soldiers or other Roman soldiers. Nobody but Romans could do this, and examples are provided in Caesar's The Gallic Wars, where for example Caesar has a file of soldiers ambushed by Gauls and orders them to turn to battle, while his other files continue to march out of contact to reform and fight once they reach the flank of the enemy. If that sounds like gibberish it doesn't matter: these were tactical military manoevures that only Roman legionaries were capable of. Basically, Roman soldiers were not bad soldiers, but in fact they were the best soldiers on earth. -Man for man Roman legionaries, if not experienced killers above and beyond that of gladiators such as the soldiers of Pompey and other Roman governors in troublesome provinces, were certainly trained to a very similar standard as gladiators. Oh and gladiators rarely fought to the death in the Republic. -Legionaries did not fight with big spiky retarded spears that look like something straight out of 300: if you look up 'pilum', you'll notice that Roman infantrymen used spears in not only a completely dissimilar manner to that of 'spearmen' or 'hoplites', but also pilum were absolutely dissimilar to the sort of fictional spears depicted in Spartacus. -Watch the first minute or so of the first episode of HBO's Rome for an idea of how Roman soldiers actually fought, and why even excellent individual combatants like Spartacus' gladiators or German tribesman had no chance at all against a decently organised Roman army. Goddamn I am not going to pretend I was not smashed and angry about my life when I made this post, but for the love of god the historical accuracy of this show in these areas (and a million other ways I probably forgot) is an incredible sore point I may never forget and I cannot ignore when people say this show was the best show ever. I'm a Classicist and historian. I really enjoyed Spartacus because it's impossible to watch a show expecting any shred of historical accuracy. Expect it to be completely incorrect and enjoy the nuggets of truth ![]() | ||
-Archangel-
Croatia7457 Posts
On April 15 2013 03:21 Geo.Rion wrote: Now im just hoping for a spinoff season with Crassus, Caesar and Pompey There is such a show. It is called Rome. Go watch it. It is 5x better then Spartacus | ||
ZenithM
France15952 Posts
On April 15 2013 02:58 tozi wrote: spartacus just ditched that red-haired girl. He didn't even acknowledge her when he was dying lol Haha yeah, it was a bit painful :D I'll try watching Rome next. | ||
Vindicare605
United States16056 Posts
On April 15 2013 04:06 hpty603 wrote: Show nested quote + On April 14 2013 23:48 Meiya wrote: + Show Spoiler + IMPORTANT EDIT: This post was made while heavily under the influence of alcohol, but the writer of this post maintains his opinions no matter his level of intoxication. The endless litany of praise for this show is forcing me to speak up: it's not just the loyal denizens of tl.net, it is sites that I expected to be more critical such as /tv/. I can't understand this, because I was a loyal fan of this show for the first two and a bit seasons and watched every episode since. Spartacus was a terrible show. Blood and Sand was fanstastic for what it was, as was Gods of the Arena which stuck to a winning formula. Vengeance was the beginning of a moralising and historically insulting soap opera led by an actor that, while decent in the end, was not the man we grew to love. However, through a combination of lazy writing and incompetent research we ended up with the show that ended just recently, entertaining as it was in a sense. The writers of this show moralised from a very early point, and while there is no evidence of Spartacus giving a single fuck about the plight of slaves in the Republic, it is just anachronistic, lazy and irrelevant work for the overpaid writers of this overrated show to suggest that slavery was this terrible evil when nobody in the day of Spartacus, even Spartacus himself, seemed to really care about the institution of slavery. This is not so much the fault of the show as the fault of terrible modern 'history' that shoves modern moralistic subjectivity down the throats of men and women that lived thousands of years ago, but it as painful as it is disappointing. However: it is most important for me to point out how grossly irrelevant the events of this overacted series were to reality, and I will list the most frustrating: -Crassus was not a gladiator-brawling, chivalrous 'leader by example': while courageous, Crassus became the lead man against Spartacus through a combination of cash up the sleeve to pay new legions and willingness to risk defeat against an enemy of such low repute as slaves: Rome certainly never feared they would lose their global influence to Spartacus and his slaves, and even their fear that Rome would be ravaged by Spartacus proved typical Roman paranoiae: to be frank, Spartacus had less chance to conquer Rome than did Alexander the Great. -Tiberius did not exist, Crassus had two real children and neither of them were named Tiberius nor did they bear any historical similarity to this fictional character -Caesar Dictator was too busy serving under Lucullus against Mithridates in the East to give a single fuck about Crassus' little war against slaves, and not only shared not a single character trait with the Caesar in the show but also did not share a single piece of historical similarity -Spartacus was never a crusader for the freedom of all slaves, modern historians with their liberal sensibilities have forced their own beliefs in regards to slavery into the mouth of Spartacus, who was a bad motherfucker but more of a bandit than an idealist, according to the sources. -MOST IMPORTANTLY OF ALL: Roman legions were not useless organisations that could not combat gladiators. Legions were the best fighting forces on earth before, during and after the 3rd Servile War. Legionaries made better soldiers than gladiators (this is not even arguable), they possessed superior discipline and therefore fighting power which is evident in their conduct in situations such as those faced by Caesar Dictator, where Roman legionaries were capable of executing complex manoeuvres in contact under any circumstances and against barbarian soldiers or other Roman soldiers. Nobody but Romans could do this, and examples are provided in Caesar's The Gallic Wars, where for example Caesar has a file of soldiers ambushed by Gauls and orders them to turn to battle, while his other files continue to march out of contact to reform and fight once they reach the flank of the enemy. If that sounds like gibberish it doesn't matter: these were tactical military manoevures that only Roman legionaries were capable of. Basically, Roman soldiers were not bad soldiers, but in fact they were the best soldiers on earth. -Man for man Roman legionaries, if not experienced killers above and beyond that of gladiators such as the soldiers of Pompey and other Roman governors in troublesome provinces, were certainly trained to a very similar standard as gladiators. Oh and gladiators rarely fought to the death in the Republic. -Legionaries did not fight with big spiky retarded spears that look like something straight out of 300: if you look up 'pilum', you'll notice that Roman infantrymen used spears in not only a completely dissimilar manner to that of 'spearmen' or 'hoplites', but also pilum were absolutely dissimilar to the sort of fictional spears depicted in Spartacus. -Watch the first minute or so of the first episode of HBO's Rome for an idea of how Roman soldiers actually fought, and why even excellent individual combatants like Spartacus' gladiators or German tribesman had no chance at all against a decently organised Roman army. Goddamn I am not going to pretend I was not smashed and angry about my life when I made this post, but for the love of god the historical accuracy of this show in these areas (and a million other ways I probably forgot) is an incredible sore point I may never forget and I cannot ignore when people say this show was the best show ever. I'm a Classicist and historian. I really enjoyed Spartacus because it's impossible to watch a show expecting any shred of historical accuracy. Expect it to be completely incorrect and enjoy the nuggets of truth ![]() I'm as much an enthusiast of classic history as anyone here but I have to agree with this sentiment. Watching any kind of fictionalized cinema or television that depicts the ancient times and expecting it to be historically accurate is like expecting your burger at McDonald's to look like the picture. It's an unrealistic and naive expectation. Instead, take what the show does for what it is and judge it by its own merits. What I think of when I see Spartacus is a show that went from being NOTHING BUT gratuitous gore, violence and nudity to a show with characters and a plot I actually cared about. I came for one thing but I stayed because the writing was good enough to keep me there. I wasn't expecting to come into this show and witness the next great piece of cinema that'd be talked about for generations I came into it just looking for something entertaining that had to do with gladiators. What I got FAR exceeded my expectations and for me that means a whole lot. | ||
Kuni
Austria765 Posts
I found it funny though, that the only people surviving and escaping to the north were the women and the two homosexuals, Agron and Nasir :-) | ||
Panzamelano
Colombia248 Posts
and overall the ending was better than i expected knowing how most "historical" shows turn out nowadays. | ||
Djzapz
Canada10681 Posts
On April 15 2013 05:16 Panzamelano wrote: finally after a whole season naevia dies god did i hate that bitch. and overall the ending was better than i expected knowing how most "historical" shows turn out nowadays. Highfives on both counts. | ||
D10
Brazil3409 Posts
I LOVE rome, and roman stuff, but in this show with each episde I only grew in disapointment, until I finally realized that they would basically alude to the coolest time in rome and stop the show due to the slave revolt ending, id rather they let spartakus live and do some sort of "alternate history". Alas, it didnt happen, and I see this series as nothing more than a porn with plot. | ||
Kuni
Austria765 Posts
On April 15 2013 05:16 Panzamelano wrote: finally after a whole season naevia dies god did i hate that bitch. and overall the ending was better than i expected knowing how most "historical" shows turn out nowadays. Haha, true. We had to wait so long, that annoying cunt. But in this series, almost all women were fucking pathetic. Only Lucretia was a fucking boss. Back in Gods of the Arena, right before she kills Titus and he asks her:"Tell me I have been mistaken about you. Tell me you're not the serpent I have thought you to be." And she just answers: "I'm not." <long pause> "I'm far worse." Goosebumps ! | ||
Djzapz
Canada10681 Posts
On April 15 2013 05:38 D10 wrote: Alas, it didnt happen, and I see this series as nothing more than a porn with plot. That's a lot more shallow than the show itself ![]() If anything they should do a spinoff and show us the whole Crassus/Pompey/Ceasar business. | ||
slappy
United States1271 Posts
On April 14 2013 22:32 Djzapz wrote:I think the highlight for me is when Naevia died because she was such a despicable character. They somehow managed to make her almost as bad as Tiberius for me. I found it funny that at the beginning of episode 9 when Naevia comes back with Crixus' head and is telling this gut wrenching story of his death I felt nothing emotionally. Then one line and one facial expression from Nasir in regards to Agron right afterwards almost brought me to tears. On April 15 2013 02:58 tozi wrote: spartacus just ditched that red-haired girl. He didn't even acknowledge her when he was dying lol He DID tell her he wouldn't give his heart to a Roman, and she also told him she only wanted his cock, so I'd say no harm here lol | ||
Geo.Rion
7377 Posts
On April 15 2013 04:53 -Archangel- wrote: Show nested quote + On April 15 2013 03:21 Geo.Rion wrote: Now im just hoping for a spinoff season with Crassus, Caesar and Pompey There is such a show. It is called Rome. Go watch it. It is 5x better then Spartacus I watched it, and yes it is better than this, but it has no Crassus in it. You might observe i started the enumaration with him. I'd like to see where can they take that character. | ||
shark.
593 Posts
(which was the best imo). I think the secound they left the ludus and full scale battles started to happen the CGI just didn't cut it. It never felt like "the rebellion vs Rome", more 5 main characters slow mowing the fuck out of a people and suddenly they win. Plus the fact that the so called gladiators and conquered soldiers that had spent years training and fighting for their lives were being matched by fucks like nasir and neavia helped ruin the feels. Nonetheless I enjoyed the show for what it was despite its many flaws. RIP Andy. | ||
ChuCky.Ca
Canada2497 Posts
On April 15 2013 05:38 D10 wrote: A bad ending for a bad show. I LOVE rome, and roman stuff, but in this show with each episde I only grew in disapointment, until I finally realized that they would basically alude to the coolest time in rome and stop the show due to the slave revolt ending, id rather they let spartakus live and do some sort of "alternate history". Alas, it didnt happen, and I see this series as nothing more than a porn with plot. why the fuck were you even watching the show if you disliked it that much makes no sense lol. Very sad spartacus is over what a finale didn't except to love it that much | ||
Tialuram
Netherlands51 Posts
Only thing I wish would have been different is Gannicus's end, but oh well. Guess someone had to die in a non heroic way to prove the point of defeat. ...I just really don't like to watch crucifixions ![]() | ||
GunPaladin
United States1205 Posts
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-Archangel-
Croatia7457 Posts
On April 15 2013 07:53 Tialuram wrote: Great ending in my opinion, felt a bit like "In Utter Darkness" mission from WoL campaign...with all the heroes dieing. Only thing I wish would have been different is Gannicus's end, but oh well. Guess someone had to die in a non heroic way to prove the point of defeat. ...I just really don't like to watch crucifixions ![]() Well since you mentioned crucifixion, did anyone else notice they fracked it up with Agron, but then done it right afterwards? By that I mean, Agron was pierced through palms, while in real Rome it was done through wrists which is what they did to Gannicus. | ||
Sephy90
United States1785 Posts
On April 15 2013 16:37 -Archangel- wrote: Show nested quote + On April 15 2013 07:53 Tialuram wrote: Great ending in my opinion, felt a bit like "In Utter Darkness" mission from WoL campaign...with all the heroes dieing. Only thing I wish would have been different is Gannicus's end, but oh well. Guess someone had to die in a non heroic way to prove the point of defeat. ...I just really don't like to watch crucifixions ![]() Well since you mentioned crucifixion, did anyone else notice they fracked it up with Agron, but then done it right afterwards? By that I mean, Agron was pierced through palms, while in real Rome it was done through wrists which is what they did to Gannicus. Yeah I was so confused when they did it wrong the first time but then corrected it the next time? Also crucifying Crassus' slave was cool. You could really see how well they depicted the horror on her face on that one. Also Caesar's actor.. had a weird looking expression on his face the entire series lol. | ||
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