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On January 11 2013 07:27 Skullflower wrote:Show nested quote +On January 11 2013 06:31 Pandemona wrote:I'll wait to see what Top Gear say on this before i even consider Electric Cars  Top Gear crowned the Fisker Karma Car of the Year. It's electirc, costs about the same as the Tesla S and looks about 100,000x sexier. ![[image loading]](http://media.treehugger.com/assets/images/2011/10/fisker-karma-car-0h02.jpg)
karma does look good, i think they both look good and would depend on the viewer. tesla's starts at 52k, fisker starts at 96k.
also, tesla is installing charging stations in key locations throughout the country (USA) so cross country is theoretically possible. they also said these charging stations will fully charge the car in 30 minutes.
as for top gear, i think they will be positive with this one unlike with the roadster.
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On January 11 2013 06:31 Pandemona wrote:I'll wait to see what Top Gear say on this before i even consider Electric Cars
electric is superior to gasoline power for performance purposes too.
although this is out of reach for most consumers its nice that they use the lotus body which looks fuckin sexy as hell.
i have no idea why almost all hybrids look like fuckin turds.
if you want a fuel efficient practical car i'm pretty sure the VW TDI is better than any hybrid out there in terms of price.
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On January 11 2013 07:44 jinorazi wrote:Show nested quote +On January 11 2013 07:27 Skullflower wrote:On January 11 2013 06:31 Pandemona wrote:I'll wait to see what Top Gear say on this before i even consider Electric Cars Top Gear crowned the Fisker Karma Car of the Year. It's electirc, costs about the same as the Tesla S and looks about 100,000x sexier. karma does look good, i think they both look good and would depend on the viewer. tesla's starts at 52k, fisker starts at 96k. also, tesla is installing charging stations in key locations throughout the country (USA) so cross country is theoretically possible. they also said these charging stations will fully charge the car in 30 minutes. as for top gear, i think they will be positive with this one unlike with the roadster.
As I understand it the Fisker Karma has a petrol engine that generates electricity. You can also charge some batteries in it from the mains but I have no idea how far that charge will take you. This probably isn't a big deal to anyone but I would like to point out that the Tesla S and the Fisker Karma are not exactly the same beast and if we're gonna talk about Fisker Karmas we may as well throw in hybrids as well. And diesels, hell why not?
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The range makes this impractical for anything other than a second care, which most people cannot afford (or aren't going to buy).
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On January 11 2013 08:04 Dapper_Cad wrote:Show nested quote +On January 11 2013 07:44 jinorazi wrote:On January 11 2013 07:27 Skullflower wrote:On January 11 2013 06:31 Pandemona wrote:I'll wait to see what Top Gear say on this before i even consider Electric Cars Top Gear crowned the Fisker Karma Car of the Year. It's electirc, costs about the same as the Tesla S and looks about 100,000x sexier. karma does look good, i think they both look good and would depend on the viewer. tesla's starts at 52k, fisker starts at 96k. also, tesla is installing charging stations in key locations throughout the country (USA) so cross country is theoretically possible. they also said these charging stations will fully charge the car in 30 minutes. as for top gear, i think they will be positive with this one unlike with the roadster. As I understand it the Fisker Karma has a petrol engine that generates electricity. You can also charge some batteries in it from the mains but I have no idea how far that charge will take you. This probably isn't a big deal to anyone but I would like to point out that the Tesla S and the Fisker Karma are not exactly the same beast and if we're gonna talk about Fisker Karmas we may as well throw in hybrids as well. And diesels, hell why not?
yeah i agree, i was just pointing out the price range of the two, though the end price is similar, starting price is very different.
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On January 11 2013 07:47 dreamsmasher wrote:Show nested quote +On January 11 2013 06:31 Pandemona wrote:I'll wait to see what Top Gear say on this before i even consider Electric Cars electric is superior to gasoline power for performance purposes too. although this is out of reach for most consumers its nice that they use the lotus body which looks fuckin sexy as hell. i have no idea why almost all hybrids look like fuckin turds. if you want a fuel efficient practical car i'm pretty sure the VW TDI is better than any hybrid out there in terms of price.
electric is superior to gasoline power for performance purposes too.
Not for top end performance. Power to weight ratio coupled with endurance is just not matchable by electric at the moment. Thats why you dont see it in racing.
although this is out of reach for most consumers its nice that they use the lotus body which looks fuckin sexy as hell
I dont see why anyone who could afford it would choose this over a quattroporte, the only advantage at that price point seems to be upkeep cost and why would that matter if your rich enough to buy one?
i have no idea why almost all hybrids look like fuckin turds.
Because they are designed to be sold on the hook that they are hybrids, not that they are good cars. My parents were considering buying an electric car (designed for inner city low impact runs) for a while, took me ages to make them realise that because they live up a 1 mile rough farm track the chassis wouldnt be able to handle it day in day out and would be an economic and environmental waste (they have already had problems with trim pieces and the clutch on a 1.4 fiesta and have since bought a late 80s LR Defender 90 TDI which has no troubles at all)
if you want a fuel efficient practical car i'm pretty sure the VW TDI is better than any hybrid out there in terms of price.
Pretty much this, unless you do less than 50 miles a day and always end up at home in which case an electric car is better.
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not sure why usa dont like diesel models
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On January 11 2013 08:25 jinorazi wrote:
not sure why usa dont like diesel models
engines are more expensive.
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On January 11 2013 08:25 jinorazi wrote:
not sure why usa dont like diesel models
Also the US infrastructure for refining crude oil is specialized for gasoline for the most part not diesel, gas ends up cheaper then diesel. And you just can't swap out a few parts to change a refinery that specialized in refining gasoline into one that refines diesel. Europe is more of an opposite to that where the majority of their refineries are for maximizing the yield of diesel. Although in the mid west you see more E85 and flex fuel vehicles that benefit from corn subsidies turning the starches there into ethanol to mix into the gas. So it's a matter of what is cheaper for a market.
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im calling bullshit on the 300 mile range. I would like to see it independently verified.
I'm not a fan of the way cars are rated here in the US btw -___-
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^No, its true. I read a ton about it because I also didn't believe at first. Thing is, the car is loaded with a LOT of batteries. It makes the thing heavy but actually very powerful as well.
If the price of batteries continues to fall, then we are looking at the future, gentlemen.
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On January 11 2013 09:09 TheFish7 wrote:
^No, its true. I read a ton about it because I also didn't believe at first. Thing is, the car is loaded with a LOT of batteries. It makes the thing heavy but actually very powerful as well.
If the price of batteries continues to fall, then we are looking at the future, gentlemen.
That youtube video had 211 verified. Trust me, all car companies fuel economy ratings are bullshit. The ratings they provide are at absolute optimal conditions and even then are dodgy at best. Look at the lawsuit involving the elantra.
I also don't think pure electric is ever the way to go. You always want to have some other type of backup plan with the amount of shit that can go wrong with electricity.
The volume of these cars is also so low you can bet repair parts are expensive as hell as well.
the EPA should not be allowing companies to self test the vehicles ( or at least there needs to be WAY more audits).
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On January 11 2013 09:03 Sadist wrote:
im calling bullshit on the 300 mile range. I would like to see it independently verified.
I'm not a fan of the way cars are rated here in the US btw -___-
Like most things it depends on where you live, i know driving my chevy cruze i get on roads with a slight decline well over 50mpg and roads with a slight incline on the high way lead to more of 30mpg ofc those are computer estimations. When you throw batteries into the mix things like weather can also matter a bit more then a gas powered car if it's especially hot or cold. There are other factors all listed under that your miles my vary tag line from the epa. All of which is sorta tested using dynamometers to stress the car taking into the cars drag coefficient and weight but it's still all best guesses.
I wonder if auto manufactures will have an independent tester like they do for horsepower under the SAE
Also it's to not that sense it says 300 mile range at 55 mph this isn't independently verified testing would probably be set up similar to conditions of highway testing done by the epa to reach empg.
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On January 11 2013 09:03 Sadist wrote:
im calling bullshit on the 300 mile range. I would like to see it independently verified.
I'm not a fan of the way cars are rated here in the US btw -___-
i've heard of the 300 mile tested range in articles, not sure how truthful they are but i did see a part where jay leno drove one and after 15 minutes (maybe 30, dont recall) of driving, "estimate range remaining" didnt falter because how efficient the car was in converting (braking)heat to energy.
still 200+ miles on a single charge for a ev makes it very viable for many people
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On January 11 2013 09:26 jinorazi wrote:Show nested quote +On January 11 2013 09:03 Sadist wrote:
im calling bullshit on the 300 mile range. I would like to see it independently verified.
I'm not a fan of the way cars are rated here in the US btw -___- i've heard of the 300 mile tested range in articles, not sure how truthful they are but i did see a part where jay leno drove one and after 15 minutes (maybe 30, dont recall) of driving, "estimate range remaining" didnt falter because how efficient the car was in converting (braking)heat to energy. still 200+ miles on a single charge for a ev makes it very viable for many people
Maybe,
but 5 hrs to charge is still to long. I'm all for hybrids, but pure electrics seem kinda shit to me.
It is really odd to drive an electric car though, I have driven a volt and it made basically 0 noise (except for a very slight wine) and was about as loud as an electric golf cart o_O
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On January 11 2013 09:30 Sadist wrote:Show nested quote +On January 11 2013 09:26 jinorazi wrote:On January 11 2013 09:03 Sadist wrote:
im calling bullshit on the 300 mile range. I would like to see it independently verified.
I'm not a fan of the way cars are rated here in the US btw -___- i've heard of the 300 mile tested range in articles, not sure how truthful they are but i did see a part where jay leno drove one and after 15 minutes (maybe 30, dont recall) of driving, "estimate range remaining" didnt falter because how efficient the car was in converting (braking)heat to energy. still 200+ miles on a single charge for a ev makes it very viable for many people Maybe, but 5 hrs to charge is still to long. I'm all for hybrids, but pure electrics seem kinda shit to me. It is really odd to drive an electric car though, I have driven a volt and it made basically 0 noise (except for a very slight wine) and was about as loud as an electric golf cart o_O
Reducing noise pollution i think is a good thing not like it make cities any quieter outside of cali it's not many states were using your horse like a jackass is a ticket-able offense.
5 hour change isn't too long for most people that is the 200-300 range of 99% of what they would be doing with their car in one day, so 5 hours over night isn't a big deal. The problem is that outside of houses it's inconvenient to charge the car in most places. Does it fill everyone's needs nope i mean i drove cars cross country doing 700miles a day, but that's rather unusual and one in a blue moon sorta deal.
I said it before tesla's cars would do better if they were cheaper which they can get if they optimized their production which at this point is still in large part done by hand which makes it slow. They also are still in the process of changing how they put the car together just about every week which has it's own slow downs. In part this is also why tesla's market is in the high end of cars just because they can't do cheap at the moment atleast not cheap and compete with quality of build levels of major manufacturers.
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This is not necessarily 100% related but back in the day, Tesla already presented a vehicle that can drive on electricity. This knowledge has been kept from us successfully since then because it is hard to make money off of it.
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On January 11 2013 09:48 semantics wrote:Show nested quote +On January 11 2013 09:30 Sadist wrote:On January 11 2013 09:26 jinorazi wrote:On January 11 2013 09:03 Sadist wrote:
im calling bullshit on the 300 mile range. I would like to see it independently verified.
I'm not a fan of the way cars are rated here in the US btw -___- i've heard of the 300 mile tested range in articles, not sure how truthful they are but i did see a part where jay leno drove one and after 15 minutes (maybe 30, dont recall) of driving, "estimate range remaining" didnt falter because how efficient the car was in converting (braking)heat to energy. still 200+ miles on a single charge for a ev makes it very viable for many people Maybe, but 5 hrs to charge is still to long. I'm all for hybrids, but pure electrics seem kinda shit to me. It is really odd to drive an electric car though, I have driven a volt and it made basically 0 noise (except for a very slight wine) and was about as loud as an electric golf cart o_O Reducing noise pollution i think is a good thing not like it make cities any quieter outside of cali it's not many states were using your horse like a jackass is a ticket-able offense. 5 hour change isn't too long for most people that is the 200-300 range of 99% of what they would be doing with their car in one day, so 5 hours over night isn't a big deal. The problem is that outside of houses it's inconvenient to charge the car in most places. Does it fill everyone's needs nope i mean i drove cars cross country doing 700miles a day, but that's rather unusual and one in a blue moon sorta deal. I said it before tesla's cars would do better if they were cheaper which they can get if they optimized their production which at this point is still in large part done by hand which makes it slow. They also are still in the process of changing how they put the car together just about every week which has it's own slow downs. In part this is also why tesla's market is in the high end of cars just because they can't do cheap at the moment atleast not cheap and compete with quality of build levels of major manufacturers.
This makes some sense. Seeing a full scale assembly plant cranking out 600 cars a shift is actually quite amazing if you haven't seen it before. When you watch a car get built for the first time and see how shitty things go at first, it makes you realize how you can take for granted the fact that the plant runs properly.
I wasn't aware of Tesla's production facilities. I wonder what their build rate is. It makes sense that they are doing a lot of things by hand as the startup costs for a plant are astronomical. Its too bad they don't make the Tesla in the Detroit area where you could find the type of manufacturing facilities they would need without having to build an entirely new one.
Read somewhere that their build rate goal was something like 1500 a month. Thats incredibly low volume (for a example, some assembly plants build as many as 1500 a day (with 3 shifts). Im sure their facility is one shift if they are only building 20-25 a day but damn. Maybe its just a demand issue and a limited market so they arent going to invest when the demand isnt there.
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Tesla bought an old GM/Toyota plant in Fremont, CA and that's where they build the Model S.
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EPT
