|
On January 04 2013 12:23 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On January 04 2013 12:00 hypercube wrote:On January 04 2013 11:15 naastyOne wrote:Look at GB, France, Italy, Spain, where public debt, unemployment and taxes are way higher, and their struggle.
UK unemployment is very similar to the US: around 8%. I certainly wouldn't lump them together with Italy or Spain. Furthermore the UK elected a right wing government at the height of the crisis (more due to years of chronic Labour economic mismanagement than due to ideological reasons) who promptly attempted harsh spending cuts in the name of austerity, predicting that they would balance the budget by now and begin to repay the debt. Unfortunately it turned into a triple dip recession as the economy shrank and people lost their jobs and became more reliant on the state than before. Spending has actually increased, borrowing has increased as tax revenues shrink and everyone still has less than before. It's all gone pretty badly, it's not even that we're cutting back and slowly taking on the mountain of debt, spending is growing, revenue is declining, all the targets have been missed, readjusted and missed again and there is no end in sight.
This.
Unfortunately, the Chameleon is cursed by the UK's structural problems and his own political instincts. David Cameron believes in a limited government with using paternalistic libertarianism (the theories of Cass Sunstein) to finesse its way through tactical-level difficulties. However, the problems facing the United Kingdom are structural and strategic, and require someone with the will of Palmerston, Thatcher, or Churchill to fix. Cameron is bright but he doesn't have the backbone.
First and foremost, the UK is the world's most heavily 'post-industrialized' large economy, but its human endowment--the average level an distribution of education and human capital among non-immigrant Britons--will not let it translate post-industrial economic gains into widespread prosperity. It needs to pull back from that precipice and re-tool its economy if it wants to fix that.
Second, the UK needs to figure out what role it needs to play in the world. More specifically, is it an European nation, an American outpost in Europe, or a destination for Russian exiles? The Franco-German tag team in the PIGS crisis will only cement those two nations as the center of Europe, so Britain may be unhappy playing second or third fiddle. The Anglo-American alliance is doing great, but the US pivot to Asia plus defense cuts will by default leave gaping vacuums that Britain must fill in the alliance's traditional area of influence (read: no more NATO adventures in places like Libya or Afghanistan). Charting a non-aligned course internationally may marginalize Britain in a world of regional power blocs and the G2.
|
|
|
this auto sadism thing reminds me a lot of the french utopic government
|
On January 04 2013 12:37 snotboogie wrote:
Can someone explain to me why everyone is talking about "cutting the fat" of "entitlements" like health care and social security, but noone is talking about cutting down the monstrosity that is the "defence" budget?
Because they haven't seen a better/different system like on in Canada or Australia. Honestly I think the main problem with the US is the arrogance of the people, and just not caring about what happens around them. I'm generalizing but if you had something like Fox news in Canada or lots of places in Europe, people wont buy that shit. They fight to keep their freedoms that were won just decades ago.
People in US will more than anything be like, "whatever, can't do anything about it, time to go watch my reality TV show and update my facebook status".This self-centered but lazy culture also thinks they are the best, again generally speaking, and seem to act like elitists, yet really not having much to back it up.
I only can speak from experience from living in eastern europe and Canada, but at least now, we are all very happy for where we live, and we work hard to make our communities a better place. There are lots of volunteering opportunities, and organization driven programs to bring people together and appreciate the people around you, and also to be proud of actually being Canadian.
I think for a change the US should look to Canada to learn something, as they are currently very successful, very safe, and very accepting.
|
On January 04 2013 12:57 FiWiFaKi wrote:Show nested quote +On January 04 2013 12:37 snotboogie wrote:
Can someone explain to me why everyone is talking about "cutting the fat" of "entitlements" like health care and social security, but noone is talking about cutting down the monstrosity that is the "defence" budget? Because they haven't seen a better/different system like on in Canada or Australia. Honestly I think the main problem with the US is the arrogance of the people, and just not caring about what happens around them. I'm generalizing but if you had something like Fox news in Canada or lots of places in Europe, people wont buy that shit. They fight to keep their freedoms that were won just decades ago. People in US will more than anything be like, "whatever, can't do anything about it, time to go watch my reality TV show and update my facebook status".This self-centered but lazy culture also thinks they are the best, again generally speaking, and seem to act like elitists, yet really not having much to back it up. I only can speak from experience from living in eastern europe and Canada, but at least now, we are all very happy for where we live, and we work hard to make our communities a better place. There are lots of volunteering opportunities, and organization driven programs to bring people together and appreciate the people around you, and also to be proud of actually being Canadian. I think for a change the US should look to Canada to learn something, as they are currently very successful, very safe, and very accepting.
I promise to try to be more like you Canadians and not be a lazy, arrogant, self-centered person who doesn't care about my community. Unfortunately it is hard, my birth place has completely and permanently shaped my character for the worse. I ask my parents all the time, "why, why, why didn't you birth me in Canada???" Now I need to go update my facebook status.
|
On January 04 2013 12:46 jdseemoreglass wrote:I wanted to know what kind of god forsaken self-contradictory theory "paternalistic libertarianism" was. Turns out your link is empty Shady lol... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soft_paternalismHere ya go.
Thanks! fixed the link.
|
http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2013/01/02/the_nudgy_state?page=0,1
FYI this is what "libertarian paternalism" is like in Britain:
Prime Minister David Cameron frequently expressed his admiration for Nudge, the ideas of which meshed well with the more state-centric brand of conservatism -- known as "big society" -- that the Tory leader championed on the campaign trail. In 2010, Cameron set up the Behavioural Insights Team -- quickly dubbed the "nudge unit" by the press -- a group of behavioral economists, with Thaler acting as a consultant, given a mandate to "find innovative ways of encouraging, enabling and supporting people to make better choices for themselves."
The unit has undertaken a number of trial programs so far. In one, non-payers of car taxes were sent a letter, including a picture of their car, warning in plain English that their vehicle would be lost if they did not pay up. Including the photo tripled payment rates. The unit has also seen enormous success in informing people by text message that they're late on taxes or fines.
In another intervention, insulation firms set up a service to clean out customers' attics while installing insulation. (It was found that people were much more likely to pay for new energy-saving insulation if they didn't have to go through the trouble of sorting through years worth of junk.) The unit has been an occasional target of ridicule on Fleet Street, but its interventions have been successful enough -- about £300 million ($485 million) in savings so far -- that other governments are looking to copy it.
|
On January 04 2013 12:37 snotboogie wrote:
Can someone explain to me why everyone is talking about "cutting the fat" of "entitlements" like health care and social security, but noone is talking about cutting down the monstrosity that is the "defence" budget?
The defense budget isn't a monstrosity... its been a bit high due to the wars but now that those are over its fine.
Percent of overall budget:
Percent of GDP:
That's not to say you couldn't cut it some more. But it isn't where the money is so it'll only get you so far.
Conversely here's entitlements:
![[image loading]](https://dl.dropbox.com/u/72070179/Entitlements2.PNG)
|
the problem is that politicians here come from the dredges of the US higher education system. everyone here knows that some of the biggest morons in college take joke majors like political science or business. and those same people go on to pursue careers in politics, or as lawyers before turning to politics.
they're arguing over how much funding things such as science education get when most of those fuckers haven't even had a basic biology course. it's no surprise they argue like a bunch of opinionated college preppies when that's exactly where they came from.
if each member of congress was required to have even a single semester of math, biology, chemistry, physics, english, communication, US history, and economics, we wouldn't be in the level of shit we're in now.
|
On January 04 2013 12:57 FiWiFaKi wrote:Show nested quote +On January 04 2013 12:37 snotboogie wrote:
Can someone explain to me why everyone is talking about "cutting the fat" of "entitlements" like health care and social security, but noone is talking about cutting down the monstrosity that is the "defence" budget? Because they haven't seen a better/different system like on in Canada or Australia. Honestly I think the main problem with the US is the arrogance of the people, and just not caring about what happens around them. I'm generalizing but if you had something like Fox news in Canada or lots of places in Europe, people wont buy that shit. They fight to keep their freedoms that were won just decades ago. People in US will more than anything be like, "whatever, can't do anything about it, time to go watch my reality TV show and update my facebook status".This self-centered but lazy culture also thinks they are the best, again generally speaking, and seem to act like elitists, yet really not having much to back it up. I only can speak from experience from living in eastern europe and Canada, but at least now, we are all very happy for where we live, and we work hard to make our communities a better place. There are lots of volunteering opportunities, and organization driven programs to bring people together and appreciate the people around you, and also to be proud of actually being Canadian. I think for a change the US should look to Canada to learn something, as they are currently very successful, very safe, and very accepting.
Apathy is probably the biggest problem in American society. Personally I feel like most of my fellow countrymen don't pay enough attention to contribute in any meaningful fashion to the debate at hand, and am not convinced that participation for the sake of participation is worth much.
I lived in China (one year), as well as the US and from what I can gather as far as social obligations are concerned the Chinese seemed legitimately less concerned with the disadvantaged than Americans. Bias aside, the impoverished relied far more on non-Chinese contributions than those of their countrymen; additionally political apathy was rampant.
Granted this is more a function of an inability to participate in government which produces a lack of interest in the matter but I feel it warrants mentioning.
I promise to try to be more like you Canadians and not be a lazy, arrogant, self-centered person who doesn't care about my community. Unfortunately it is hard, my birth place has completely and permanently shaped my character for the worse. I ask my parents all the time, "why, why, why didn't you birth me in Canada???" Now I need to go update my facebook status.
Don't forget to change your TL country as well.
|
On January 04 2013 13:22 JonnyBNoHo wrote:... Conversely here's entitlements:
this unfortunately won't be solved until the baby boomer generation dies off. now that they're all old they're going to be fighting tooth and nail to keep as many dollars as they can going to their healthcare no matter how badly if fucks over the rest of the budget.
|
On January 04 2013 13:24 TheDraken wrote:
the problem is that politicians here come from the dredges of the US higher education system. everyone here knows that some of the biggest morons in college take joke majors like political science or business. and those same people go on to pursue careers in politics, or as lawyers before turning to politics.
they're arguing over how much funding things such as science education get when most of those fuckers haven't even had a basic biology course. it's no surprise they argue like a bunch of opinionated college preppies when that's exactly where they came from.
if each member of congress was required to have even a single semester of math, biology, chemistry, physics, english, communication, US history, and economics, we wouldn't be in the level of shit we're in now.
i hope you are trolling. If not, /facepalm.
It might help in the long run if they raised tax, but that is somewhat of a political suicide on the politician's part.
|
On January 04 2013 12:35 Not_Computer wrote:Show nested quote +On January 04 2013 11:15 naastyOne wrote:If proposed to live in China, India, Japan, Russia, Spain, GB, France, Italy or US, i would pick US any day. If my primary interests was the national economy, personally I would pick Canada over the US any day. The only western whose big 5 banks published profit and growth gains during the recession. On the other hand, our personal and household debt is probably just as bad if not worse than the US and Europe, hehehe...
You do realize Canada hasnt had its banking crisis-housing crisis yet but when it does it will be pretty bad as well? We are running: a budget and a trade deficit and the only thing that is keeping things afloat is the Canadian citizens ability to ramp up their borrowing, to the point where our debts/personal income ratio is now higher than the Americans were at in 07?
|
On January 04 2013 12:57 FiWiFaKi wrote:Show nested quote +On January 04 2013 12:37 snotboogie wrote:
Can someone explain to me why everyone is talking about "cutting the fat" of "entitlements" like health care and social security, but noone is talking about cutting down the monstrosity that is the "defence" budget? Because they haven't seen a better/different system like on in Canada or Australia. Honestly I think the main problem with the US is the arrogance of the people, and just not caring about what happens around them. I'm generalizing but if you had something like Fox news in Canada or lots of places in Europe, people wont buy that shit. They fight to keep their freedoms that were won just decades ago. People in US will more than anything be like, "whatever, can't do anything about it, time to go watch my reality TV show and update my facebook status".This self-centered but lazy culture also thinks they are the best, again generally speaking, and seem to act like elitists, yet really not having much to back it up. I only can speak from experience from living in eastern europe and Canada, but at least now, we are all very happy for where we live, and we work hard to make our communities a better place. There are lots of volunteering opportunities, and organization driven programs to bring people together and appreciate the people around you, and also to be proud of actually being Canadian. I think for a change the US should look to Canada to learn something, as they are currently very successful, very safe, and very accepting.
i think you're a bit off the mark by generalizing that americans are arrogant and lazy. what you see on TV and how the government behaves is not an accurate reflection of US society. as it is the vast majority of americans are pissed to hell with how the government is acting, and to be honest it really comes down to the older generation being wildly out of touch with what they perceive to be the "radical and immoral" younger generations.
sure it's fun to see things like jersey shore and think that all americans are fucked up self-absorbed people, but that's the exact reason we watch it. they're just as strange to us as they are to you.
|
On January 04 2013 12:46 jdseemoreglass wrote:I wanted to know what kind of god forsaken self-contradictory theory "paternalistic libertarianism" was. Turns out your link is empty Shady lol... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soft_paternalismHere ya go.
"Cab drivers in New York City have seen an increase in tips from 10% to 22% after passengers had the ability to pay using credit cards on a device installed in the cab whose screen presented them with three default tip options, ranging from 15% to 30%"
Lol, just the other day my cab driver was saying how much he loved the new(ish) credit card system. Now I see clearly why...
|
On January 04 2013 13:33 TheDraken wrote:Show nested quote +On January 04 2013 13:22 JonnyBNoHo wrote:... Conversely here's entitlements: this unfortunately won't be solved until the baby boomer generation dies off. now that they're all old they're going to be fighting tooth and nail to keep as many dollars as they can going to their healthcare no matter how badly if fucks over the rest of the budget.
Or you could adopt a civilized healthcare system, per capita Canadians pay half as much as you do for a healthcare system that generates more or less the same results.
|
On January 04 2013 13:42 sharky246 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 04 2013 13:24 TheDraken wrote:
the problem is that politicians here come from the dredges of the US higher education system. everyone here knows that some of the biggest morons in college take joke majors like political science or business. and those same people go on to pursue careers in politics, or as lawyers before turning to politics.
they're arguing over how much funding things such as science education get when most of those fuckers haven't even had a basic biology course. it's no surprise they argue like a bunch of opinionated college preppies when that's exactly where they came from.
if each member of congress was required to have even a single semester of math, biology, chemistry, physics, english, communication, US history, and economics, we wouldn't be in the level of shit we're in now. i hope you are trolling. If not, /facepalm. It might help in the long run if they raised tax, but that is somewhat of a political suicide on the politician's part.
You can't honestly say that poli sci or business hold a candle to any science major.
|
On January 04 2013 13:59 Sub40APM wrote:Show nested quote +On January 04 2013 13:33 TheDraken wrote:On January 04 2013 13:22 JonnyBNoHo wrote:... Conversely here's entitlements: this unfortunately won't be solved until the baby boomer generation dies off. now that they're all old they're going to be fighting tooth and nail to keep as many dollars as they can going to their healthcare no matter how badly if fucks over the rest of the budget. Or you could adopt a civilized healthcare system, per capita Canadians pay half as much as you do for a healthcare system that generates more or less the same results.
I believe obesity may be a contributing factor here.... maybe
Though I'm one to talk; we deep fry our debt and eat it for breakfast
|
Every thread, other than Farva's Megathread, seems to devolve into this. People make arguments in absentia that are made every time, then when disproved, these same people make even more inane statements. To address the OP specifically, China can't afford for us to go under, they need us. We don't really need them at all, a lot of goods are made in other SEA countries and the U.S. could easily, albeit at the cost of some consumerism, switch many goods and services over. China continually undervalues their currency, they have been called out by various international watchdogs and even government run international bodies for their practice of undervaluing labor. They need consumers badly, or else this plan that is working fairly well now will fail miserably; so miserably in fact that China would most likely need many other nations to fill what the U.S. has right now. Of course China doesn't want the U.S. to go under, the world economy would go under too.
|
Is auto-sadism just the same as masochism, or am I missing something here?
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
