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On January 04 2013 09:26 Shady Sands wrote:Show nested quote +On January 04 2013 09:23 farvacola wrote:On January 04 2013 09:21 LittleRedBoy wrote:On January 04 2013 09:17 farvacola wrote:On January 04 2013 09:09 LittleRedBoy wrote:
The United States is already beyond repair. I mean the Federal Government is already effectively bankrupt and in the next decade or so, things are going to get a lot worse here. You can blame the politicians. I can certainly see why a young Native American boy might consider the US beyond repair. The US government is bankrupt, that is a fact. The only reason that the US economy hasn't completely crashed is because they are spending and printing trillions of dollars. Eventually the chickens are going to come home to roost. What sort of chicken are these? Do they cuckoo as the sun rises like a cock, or do they simply threaten to? The chickens reside in the bond market, my friend. Imagine the bond market as a forest. The higher the debt-to-GDP ratio rises while interest rates remain low, the drier and hotter that forest gets, and the more likely it is to suffer a forest fire. Bond prices are at record highs today in spite of a massive glut of new treasury supply. However, secondary trading volume has thinned dramatically, while price movements (volatility) have hit a sort of plateau reminiscent of the waning days of the 1920s stock market.
Yes, yes, that all sounds about right, the question was one of inevitability however. The forest might dry up and the chickens may come home to roost, but they also may not. Speaking definitively in either case requires a hefty amount of evidence. And some 1920s resemblance is in and of itself a topic for debate. Die, misplaced unequivocal speak!
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On January 04 2013 09:21 LittleRedBoy wrote:Show nested quote +On January 04 2013 09:17 farvacola wrote:On January 04 2013 09:09 LittleRedBoy wrote:
The United States is already beyond repair. I mean the Federal Government is already effectively bankrupt and in the next decade or so, things are going to get a lot worse here. You can blame the politicians. I can certainly see why a young Native American boy might consider the US beyond repair. The US government is bankrupt, that is a fact. The only reason that the US economy hasn't completely crashed is because they are spending and printing trillions of dollars. Eventually the chickens are going to come home to roost. Show nested quote +On January 04 2013 09:20 coverpunch wrote:On January 04 2013 09:18 LittleRedBoy wrote:On January 04 2013 09:14 Boypartz wrote:
You can blame the politicians but ultimately it's the American people who are to blame for letting this happen. Well you're correct. The vast majority of Americans don't care or even realize that these politicians are ruining everything. Oh, and we can't forget about Ben Bernanke. I'm surprised that there are still trees left in the world after all the money that he has printed. Bernanke doesn't print anything, grampa. These days it's all 1s and 0s. You do realize that I was being sarcastic?
being in debt =/= bankrupt
its plausible to get out of debt but not in the current political swinging of politicians on the state and federal levels.
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On January 04 2013 09:04 Atrbyg wrote:Agreed. The US gov needs to get its act together.
The US people need to get their act together. We get the government we deserve.
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Start learning dat Chinese guys xD
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United States2267 Posts
I wish we had more competent people in Congress right now who could actually decide on a way to fix this problem. Someone on the news this morning said something like "The American people hate Congress right now". I think that quote pretty much sums up how the majority of Americans currently feel.
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On January 04 2013 09:43 Hoodlum wrote:
Start learning dat Chinese guys xD
Not really. If the US goes under, China goes under too. That's why China is so freaked out when US politics consistently tilt towards short-term fixes
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On January 04 2013 09:08 -Archangel- wrote:
So China wants US to pay its people peanuts like they do? Maybe open infamous work camps as well...
wat the fuck does this have to do with OP
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On January 04 2013 09:41 sc14s wrote:Show nested quote +On January 04 2013 09:21 LittleRedBoy wrote:On January 04 2013 09:17 farvacola wrote:On January 04 2013 09:09 LittleRedBoy wrote:
The United States is already beyond repair. I mean the Federal Government is already effectively bankrupt and in the next decade or so, things are going to get a lot worse here. You can blame the politicians. I can certainly see why a young Native American boy might consider the US beyond repair. The US government is bankrupt, that is a fact. The only reason that the US economy hasn't completely crashed is because they are spending and printing trillions of dollars. Eventually the chickens are going to come home to roost. On January 04 2013 09:20 coverpunch wrote:On January 04 2013 09:18 LittleRedBoy wrote:On January 04 2013 09:14 Boypartz wrote:
You can blame the politicians but ultimately it's the American people who are to blame for letting this happen. Well you're correct. The vast majority of Americans don't care or even realize that these politicians are ruining everything. Oh, and we can't forget about Ben Bernanke. I'm surprised that there are still trees left in the world after all the money that he has printed. Bernanke doesn't print anything, grampa. These days it's all 1s and 0s. You do realize that I was being sarcastic? being in debt =/= bankrupt its plausible to get out of debt but not in the current political swinging of politicians on the state and federal levels.
Well the United States Government is both in debt and bankrupt. There are economists who estimate that the total unfunded liabilities for Medicare and Social Security are in excess of $200 trillion. Frankly, there is no possible way for the government to pay that.
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On January 04 2013 09:46 Shady Sands wrote:Not really. If the US goes under, China goes under too. That's why China is so freaked out when US politics consistently tilt towards short-term fixes
What about after that...do you think the Chinese could recover faster? Would they be hit as hard as the US? If I remember correctly China has about 20% of the world's population which is kind of ridiculous. Also Europe would probably go under as well. I think its pretty confusing to guess what would happen, but I doubt Africa and South America would rise up to replace them.
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On January 04 2013 09:46 Shady Sands wrote:Not really. If the US goes under, China goes under too. That's why China is so freaked out when US politics consistently tilt towards short-term fixes
Well when an economy the size of the United States' goes under, everyone gets hurt. You're correct there. But, regardless, I believe that China would be doing relatively well compared to the United States in this case.
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On January 04 2013 09:51 LittleRedBoy wrote:Show nested quote +On January 04 2013 09:46 Shady Sands wrote:On January 04 2013 09:43 Hoodlum wrote:
Start learning dat Chinese guys xD Not really. If the US goes under, China goes under too. That's why China is so freaked out when US politics consistently tilt towards short-term fixes Well when an economy the size of the United States' goes under, everyone gets hurt. You're correct there. But, regardless, I believe that China would be doing relatively well compared to the United States in this case.
Generally, as a national leader, you would rather do well than simply do better than the next guy. At least, I hope...
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I chuckled when the article said that Obama aspired to fix this. It has been business in the capital as usual from day one until today. Spend money and ask for more in taxes. To his credit, an ending of the war in Iraq and scaling back in Afghanistan have lowered outlays. The United States has had increasing deficits for quite a while now, and no change in this is in sight.
It is no small wonder that some Chinese are expressing doubts just now. Presumably, if they had somewhere better to invest their money safely, it would have been done long ago. If the debt is a cause for concern today, then they ignored such objections just fine in the past. All this still is just idle talk until we see mass sales of bonds to those still interested in buying. They're fine ones to criticize domestic policy in their own right; since when have Chinese people really had a say in the setting of their own domestic policy aside from the very few extremely well-connected ones. In the US, we're inerred to the criticism of top 1%, in China, far less than that control their own political system.
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On January 04 2013 09:08 coverpunch wrote:
Translation: The US should prioritize stability that allows China to continue taking advantage of an undervalued yuan.
He might be right that the US is playing too much brinksmanship with fiscal policy, but we're not taking lectures about global responsibility and health over irresponsibility from China of all places.
Pretty much this. China want America to keep a strong dollar to keep exporting like it's doing right now. But keeping a strong value when the biggest exporter is devauling its own so much is suicide, both europe and america should know this by know.
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On January 04 2013 09:48 LittleRedBoy wrote:Show nested quote +On January 04 2013 09:41 sc14s wrote:On January 04 2013 09:21 LittleRedBoy wrote:On January 04 2013 09:17 farvacola wrote:On January 04 2013 09:09 LittleRedBoy wrote:
The United States is already beyond repair. I mean the Federal Government is already effectively bankrupt and in the next decade or so, things are going to get a lot worse here. You can blame the politicians. I can certainly see why a young Native American boy might consider the US beyond repair. The US government is bankrupt, that is a fact. The only reason that the US economy hasn't completely crashed is because they are spending and printing trillions of dollars. Eventually the chickens are going to come home to roost. On January 04 2013 09:20 coverpunch wrote:On January 04 2013 09:18 LittleRedBoy wrote:On January 04 2013 09:14 Boypartz wrote:
You can blame the politicians but ultimately it's the American people who are to blame for letting this happen. Well you're correct. The vast majority of Americans don't care or even realize that these politicians are ruining everything. Oh, and we can't forget about Ben Bernanke. I'm surprised that there are still trees left in the world after all the money that he has printed. Bernanke doesn't print anything, grampa. These days it's all 1s and 0s. You do realize that I was being sarcastic? being in debt =/= bankrupt its plausible to get out of debt but not in the current political swinging of politicians on the state and federal levels. Well the United States Government is both in debt and bankrupt. There are economists who estimate that the total unfunded liabilities for Medicare and Social Security are in excess of $200 trillion. Frankly, there is no possible way for the government to pay that.
A social welfare sistem would cost much less than the current US is paying for to subside the "private" healtcare sistem. US spend about 7k dollar pro capita on its "private" healtcare sistem, whereas the average in europe for their "socialist" healtcare sistem is 3.2k dollars. America is giving huge chunks of its taxes to private corporation, which in turn are spilling shitty propaganda about the danger of "socialism" and most of america is believing this. Pretty sad.
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Respect to Shen Dingli for saying what most are to afraid to talk about.
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T.O.P.
Hong Kong4685 Posts
On January 04 2013 09:55 Danglars wrote:
They're fine ones to criticize domestic policy in their own right; since when have Chinese people really had a say in the setting of their own domestic policy aside from the very few extremely well-connected ones. In the US, we're inerred to the criticism of top 1%, in China, far less than that control their own political system.
Why shouldn't they criticize US domestic policy? They're saying US voters vote in politicians that choose policies that are good short term but are bad long term. It's a criticism of US democracy in a way, politicians only care about getting reelected every 2 or 6 years. They don't care about what happens 10 years later.
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On January 04 2013 09:26 Shady Sands wrote:Show nested quote +On January 04 2013 09:23 farvacola wrote:On January 04 2013 09:21 LittleRedBoy wrote:On January 04 2013 09:17 farvacola wrote:On January 04 2013 09:09 LittleRedBoy wrote:
The United States is already beyond repair. I mean the Federal Government is already effectively bankrupt and in the next decade or so, things are going to get a lot worse here. You can blame the politicians. I can certainly see why a young Native American boy might consider the US beyond repair. The US government is bankrupt, that is a fact. The only reason that the US economy hasn't completely crashed is because they are spending and printing trillions of dollars. Eventually the chickens are going to come home to roost. What sort of chicken are these? Do they cuckoo as the sun rises like a cock, or do they simply threaten to? The chickens reside in the bond market, my friend. Imagine the bond market as a forest. The higher the debt-to-GDP ratio rises while interest rates remain low, the drier and hotter that forest gets, and the more likely it is to suffer a forest fire. Bond prices are at record highs today in spite of a massive glut of new treasury supply. However, secondary trading volume has thinned dramatically, while price movements (volatility) have hit a sort of plateau reminiscent of the waning days of the 1920s stock market.
You have some interesting insights in some things but I really do wish you'd stop covering up your ignorance in other things --like the bond market -- by fluffing it up with meaningless babble like your last two sentences.
Anyone who believes that America is going to go 'bankrupt' does not understand how the economy works. The only danger is a technical default brought about by Republican fanatics isolated from the political process by gerrymandered seats.
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hahaha, of course they want us to do well! do you know how much money we owe them???
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United States23455 Posts
Also, they don't want the yuan to appreciate against the dollar, because that will decrease profits of Chinese businesses. And if the dollar depreciates, we technically will be paying them back less money than they loaned us. Of course they want us to do better haha.
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On January 04 2013 09:51 LittleRedBoy wrote:Show nested quote +On January 04 2013 09:46 Shady Sands wrote:On January 04 2013 09:43 Hoodlum wrote:
Start learning dat Chinese guys xD Not really. If the US goes under, China goes under too. That's why China is so freaked out when US politics consistently tilt towards short-term fixes Well when an economy the size of the United States' goes under, everyone gets hurt. You're correct there. But, regardless, I believe that China would be doing relatively well compared to the United States in this case.
I'm not sure if Shady agrees (or even cares to speak his mind on this) but I always thought China had more to fear from a global economic downturn. Of course in the short term the US would be worse off. But the risk of social upheaval (dare I say revolution) is significantly higher for China.
It might be the higher absolute standard of living, better social cohesion or simply US elites being better at controlling their population. But for the most part the US seems to be remarkably good at absorbing economic shocks and not letting it rattle the underlying system, while China suffers from all kinds of unrest even in times of growth and relative prosperity.
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EPT
