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The idea of a language exchange thread arose in the thread on Memrise, and I thought that I'd take it one step further and make a thread for general language learning filled with links to useful resources and a list of TL members open to language exchange via Skype or some other VOIP.
I am learning Japanese, and my level is somewhere between N4 and N3. I'll be able to fill in a number of resources for Japanese myself, but input for other languages would be awesome. I'll keep the op updated as best I can.
So, let's get started!
Why you should learn a new language
Learning a new language is challenging. In my opinion, the hardest part is staying motivated. Acquiring skills in a foreign language takes time. A lot of time. The time you spend is worth it. There are many benefits to learning a language
- Helps prevent Alzheimer's disease.
- New friends around the world
- Makes travel more fun
- Increases job opportunities
- Insane feeling of achievement when goals are reached
- Most degrees require some amount of language courses, you can test out of them if you start learning now
- Be a bad ass, at least where I'm from. It is stereotypical for Americans to only speak English. Set yourself apart and be awesome.
Where do I start?
So you want to learn, but aren't sure where to begin. The first step is the most obvious.
What language should you learn?
Answering this question takes a bit of self reflection, and you need to answer a question for yourself.
Why do you want to learn?
For fun, travel, etc!
If you want to learn just to learn, I suggest picking a culture that you are interested in, or a country that you want to visit and learning the respective language. This will help keep you motivated and give you more of a reason to study. Use your target language to learn about said culture or country so you can learn while you learn.
To get ahead!
Chinese or English. If you do not already know English, then learn it (Yes, I realize English must be known to understand this). Otherwise, learn Chinese. These are the world's most dominant languages and knowing them coupled with another opens more opportunities than any other combination of languages. But be warned, learning Chinese is not for the feint of heart. Be ready to take on tens of thousands of individual, complicated characters that must be learned for fluency, and pronunciation is no easy task, either. I have, on the other hand, heard some people say that Chinese is easier than English, but this is not my belief.
You play StarCraft
Korean
You're a nerd
Trekkie? Klingon
Fantasy Freak? Elvish
Programmer? Lojban
I wouldn't recommend any of these, to be honest. This is strictly learning only to learn and there are no real benefits beyond being able to speak to yourself and sound like the biggest nerd on the planet while no one understands you. If you really want to pick one of these, give Lojban a look, but it really isn't better than something similar - at least it will never be useful in my lifetime, nor my great grandchildren's.
My significant other is from X country
Cool, learn the language her family uses, and you will be regarded as a fantastic boyfriend/girlfriend by most of her relatives. But be careful, they know you can't understand them, and they ARE making fun of you to your face and laughing together because you don't know what's going on. You might hear something you don't want to hear unless you tell them you are learning.
How do I start actually learning
Language can be broken down into two components. Vocabulary and Grammar. You can't use one without the other, and this is why text books start with very simple phrases and conversations to give you a small vocabulary base before really even beginning grammar. I'm not really a fan of typical text books, it just isn't the style in which I prefer learning, but you have to start somewhere so they are probably your best bet. Check the resources section for recommendations on what material to actually get/use. Do not forget that the internet is loaded with language learning material. Don't be afraid to use google to find resources for your desired language. Please, please, please do not use google translate.
Learning by myself is boring
You're damn right it is! Find a language exchange partner! Get in touch with someone learning the same language you are. Get help from a native speaker. Become pen-pals with a native speaker so you can practice writing (My Japanese looks like it was written by a little kid). You can find a list of TL members at the bottom of this post.
Learning styles, and things you should know about how your brain retains information.
Being good at a language requires massive amounts of information committed to long-term memory. This information comes primarily in the form of vocabulary. "Survival language" or just enough to get buy without dying requires approximately 2,000 words.
6-year-olds know a little over 6,000 words. Highschool graduates should know more than 30,000 words.
So how do you catch up? It takes a lot of time to learn all of these words, it's best to first learn how to use that time wisely.
Typical methods of learning new words comes in the form of flash cards. We've all taken highschool Spanish, French, etc, and seen people with massive stacks of flash cards running through a set of them 30 times before a quiz, or maybe they go through their cards in a similar fashion at home. This is not a good method. Blasting through a set of cards over and over again will get the job done, but it will waste a lot of your time. Here's why:
Lets say our set of flash cards contains 15 words. We go through them 30 times in one day. We'll be able to remember all of the words, for... maybe a full day before we forget some of them. So we go through them again 30 times the next day to refresh our memory, and we'll remember them all for a bit longer - maybe two, or even three days. This is good, isn't it? We're learning so it must be!
Well, this is only sort of good. We are wasting a lot of time looking at words that we still remember rather well. This time could be spent learning new words and refreshing words that are fading. How do we do this? Spaced Repetition.
To explain this idea, let's simplify to one card in our set. We look at it and learn it, so there's no point in looking at it again until we start to forget what it means. Looking at it 30 times in one sitting might let you remember it for a day or two. Looking at it 30 times over the course of six months could allow you to remember this word for years. By extending the interval of time between subsequent views of every flash card, we can save time studying. This allows us to learn more words in a shorter period of time.
Check the resources section for programs that schedule flashcards for you!
Learning Resources
Categorized by target language
+ Show Spoiler [General use, applies to all] +www.google.comUse it! Look for books, movies to watch, forums, vocabulary lists, etc. Check prices, find other sources. The internet will be one of your greatest tools. Textbook Serieshttp://www.pimsleur.com/+ Show Spoiler [Pros and cons] +On October 27 2012 02:22 JieXian wrote:
Pros: Builds fluency and aides remembering phrases and grammar effortlessly, listen to the native speak in imaginary scenarios.
Cons : It's targeted for married businessmen, doesn't explain the grammar rules in detail, just makes you repeat it, which is why I recommend listening to Michel Thomas first. Vocab is better than Michel Thomas but not better than Memrise or Anki but at least you get to hear the words in sentences. Russian one has phrases which are quite different than what a native would say, I don't know why
- Flash card and Spaced Repetition tools - AnkiMy tool of choice. It's not as simple as some others, but very functional. Also has mobile app so you can study vocabulary on the go. Allows you to attach audio files to flash cards, pictures, etc. It was designed with Japanese in mind, so Chinese characters are fully supported. And even though I have not spent the time to set it up with mine, it also supports LaTeX, so you can use it to learn math equations. http://ankisrs.net/http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AnkiMemriseThis one seems popular on TeamLiquid thanks to this thread. My experience with it so far is limited, but it seems like a basic browser based flash card tool that uses spaced repetition. Check the thread for more. http://www.memrise.com/home/http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Memrise - Dictionaries - I have been told by many, as well as from my own experience (for Japanese and Latin) that Langenscheidt dictionaries are awesome http://www.langenscheidt-education.com/Language Exchangehttp://www.sharedtalk.com/ - "There are a ton of users, and it's well moderated so you don't have to deal with too many creeps or weirdos." - FuRong http://lang-8.com/ - Language exchange site designed around writing journals. Write in your target language, and native speakers will provide corrections and suggestions. http://www.italki.com/ - "Italki is a wonderful resource if you are looking for language partners or people to correct your writing. You can also have skype lessons with professional teachers at a very affordable price." - Tal www.livemocha.com - "This has some basic lessons for free. It's ok, anyone beyond the very basics will find it too easy. But it is a nice platform to find and interact with native speakers. Busuu.com - same as livemocha." - DuunSuhuy Listening, reading, writing and general understandinghttp://www.youtube.com/ - Not kidding. Subscribe to some people who vlog in your target language to practice listening.
+ Show Spoiler [Chinese] +VocabularyPleco - It's available on iOS and Android. "Superior to anything else out there right now." - DuunSuhuy Skritter - it's 9.99 a month, but it's a good spaced repetition program for learning to write Chinese characters. Listeninghttp://chinesepod.com/ - They have updated a lot of their material and it has exercises pre-built for a lot of their lessons. A great learning structure. They have free podcasts, but the lessons are subscription based. General Studytv.sohu.com - Watch shows in Chinese + Show Spoiler [Recommendations] +
+ Show Spoiler [German] +
+ Show Spoiler [Japanese] +Text BooksYookoso - Used by the class I took for one semester Genki - Recommend by a ton of Japanese learners Minna no nihongo - Another very popular series of books. MangaAnyone interested in Japanese culture will know what manga is, and anyone wanting to learn the language will enjoy reading them. Sometimes difficult to find hardcopies, but thankfully my girlfriend is Japanese, so I can always get some through her. She might be willing to ship some to me so I can in turn send them to you guys - if you are interested, PM me. -Beginners- Doraemon Crayon Shin-chan Vocabularyhttp://www.jlptstudy.net/ - Contains vocabulary lists for the JLPT, based on previous tests KanjiKanji Alive - Fantastic tool for learning kanji. Great dictionary with multiple ways to search, provides stroke order animation, kanji meanings and readings, and most of them have mnemonics also Heisig's Remembering the Kanji - Very popular source for learning kanji. + Show Spoiler [Wikipedia excerpt] +The method differs markedly from traditional rote-memorization techniques practiced in most courses. The course teaches the student to utilize all the constituent parts of a kanji's written form—termed "primitives", combined with a mnemonic device that Heisig refers to as "imaginative memory". Each kanji (and each non-kanji primitive) is assigned a unique keyword. A kanji's written form and its keyword are associated by imagining a scene or story connecting the meaning of the given kanji with the meanings of all the primitives used to write that kanji.
The method requires the student to invent their own stories to associate the keyword meaning with the written form. The text presents detailed stories in Part I, proceeding through Part II with less verbose stories. This is to encourage the student to use the stories as practice for creating their own. After the 508 kanji in Parts I and II, the remainder of the kanji in Part III have the component keywords but no stories. However, in cases where the reader may be easily confused or for difficult kanji, Heisig often provides a small story or hint.
All the kanji are analysed by components—Heisig terms these "primitives"—which may be traditional radicals, other kanji themselves, or a collection of strokes not normally identified as independent entities. The basic primitives are introduced as needed throughout the book. This order is designed to introduce the kanji efficiently by building upon the primitives and kanji already learned, rather than learning the kanji based on the order of their frequency or the dictates of the jōyō kanji grading system. - "z-Kanji is a pretty good program you can download for free, its a english-japanese dictionary with some nice little features, you can f.e. display the JLPT level or the stroke order of the kanji" - Flip9 GrammarOxford's Japanese Grammar and Verbs - The Bible of Japanese verbs. I love this book. I saw a list on amazon for $100. DO NOT pay that much. I got mine at a bookstore for $15. http://www.guidetojapanese.org/learn/ - Tae Kim's guide, very popular. However, it was not made by a native speaker. I have been told some of the information is not entirely accurate, so compare to another source and read the comments. DictionariesLangenscheidt's Japanese/English - Probably the best pocket dictionary you can find that exists in hardcopy Jim Breen's
WWWJDIC - Highly regarded online dictionary http://jisho.org/ - Another online dictionary General Studyhttp://www.jlptstudy.net/forum/ - Great place to find information on the JLPT Rikaikun - Chrome extension that translates highlighted material, including kanji. Gives pronunciation for the kanji, also. Very great tool. Nintendo DS - Play games in Japanese. There are also a lot of games for learning Kanji, as you can practice writing on the DS. I actually play Pokemon white in Japanese on my white DS (white ones are only available in Japan) that I got during my first visit to Tokyo. animecrazy.net - Anime fans~ For advanced learners, I think a lot of the shows have raw versions available. Most shows have English subtitles. Check the anime discussion thread for ideas on what to watch
+ Show Spoiler [Korean] +General StudyTalk to Me in Korean "I don't know about the quality of it in higher levels, but the start (level 1-2) is really good and focused on (formal) everyday things and dialogues, which are easily understandable." - FeelTHeBluEZ
Exchange Partners
categorized by native language.
Learn from native speakers
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If you want to be added to the list of exchange partners, please fill out the form in the spoiler
+ Show Spoiler +TL: TL.net Username
Skype:
Spoken Lang: native and other languages - level included
Target lang : Target language and current ability
Comment: if you have any special proposition to make, for example, a certain area you want to focus on
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+ Show Spoiler [Chinese] +TL: JieXian Skype: PM for info Target Languages: French (B2), Spanish (B1), Portugese - functional, German and Russian - terrible with all the grammar but functional with the internet by my side Native/Spoken languages: English, Chinese, Malay + Show Spoiler [Comment] +I don't speak like the English or anything but I can definitely help you since I've been using these 3 languages all my life.
I'm learning languages because I find it fascinating because it's about it's history, culture and moreover, people.
And it feels bloody awesome to be able to talk to someone who you otherwise wouldn't be able to or wouldn't be talking to or understand that song you've liked or understand the subtleties that translations miss in movies and music.
Please PM me and we'll chat via Skype or MSN, or if you just want to chat with someone from Malaysia, especially if you love music :D
+ Show Spoiler [English] +TL: AirbladeOrange Skype: PM me Spoken Lang: English (native) Target lang : German (I'm currently only at a very basic level) Comment: I'm interested in short Skype learning conversations and finding a penpal TL: DuunSuhuy Skype: brown.eric.m Native Lang: English Target Lang: Mandarin (A2/B1); Swedish TL: Flicky Skype: PM for info Target Lang: German, A1, maybe A2~ + Show Spoiler [Comment] +if you have a B2 or C1 level of English I can chat with you to help you improve and explain the more subtle nuances in british english. TL: Kohonski Skype: PM for info Spoken Lang: English (Fluent) Target lang : Korean (Very basic/elementary. About a month of study) TL: Marimokkori Skype: Nuada2723 Fluent Lang: English (Native) Target Lang: Japanese, basic conversation, N4 TL: Meepman Skype: PM for info Spoken Lang: English (native) Target lang : French fluency Comment: + Show Spoiler +Don't know how good of a teacher I can be, but I'm definitely willing to put serious time into it. TL: Nanikure skype: P337isL337 native lang: English Spoken lang: Thai B2, Japanese A2/B1 Target lang: Japanese Intermediate + Show Spoiler [Comment] +I'm looking for someone to practice writing/speaking with. I also play League of Legends a lot if anyone wants practice while gaming.
+ Show Spoiler [French] +TL: Anatase Skype: PM for info Spoken language : French, English (B2/C1) Target Lang: Chinese, basics + Show Spoiler [Comment] +So if you are a mandarin speaker and want to learn french i am all-in for an exchange. Arguably i also propose that we play some games (ie sc/dota2/ w/e) and try individually to speak/comment in our target language; for example : if you want to say "i'm getting badly raped there i need help" you should try to say "je me fais défoncer, j'ai besoin d'aide" (good familiar translation if you ever need.
+ Show Spoiler [German] +TL: FeelTHeBluEZ Skype: freakonacage Target Lang: Korean, beginner - 2months of study Also fluent in: English TL: Flip9 Skype: please PM me for info Spoken Lang: German (mother language), English (Fluently, learned it almost 10 years at school) Target lang : Japanese (between JLPT N4 and N3) + Show Spoiler [Comment] + I seriously study japanese for 3 years but unfortunately have to learn the most on my own. I like learning kanji, but my grammar and speaking skills are very poor.
If you speak no Japanese and want to chat in german, thats OK for me too.
Just PM me your skype name please TL: r3dox Skype: pm me Spoken: German Target: korean ^^ TL: Toadesstern Skype: PM for info Target Lang: Japanese Also fluent: English
+ Show Spoiler [Italian] +
TL: Ergalle
Skype: via PM
Spoken: Italian (native), English
Target: korean (basic)
TL: Hatsu
Skype: PM for info
Can also help with English
+ Show Spoiler [Maylay] +TL: JieXian Skype: PM for info Target Languages: French (B2), Spanish (B1), Portugese - functional, German and Russian - terrible with all the grammar but functional with the internet by my side Native/Spoken languages: English, Chinese, Malay + Show Spoiler [Comment] +I don't speak like the English or anything but I can definitely help you since I've been using these 3 languages all my life.
+ Show Spoiler [Portuguese] +
TL: LA_Morello
Skype: caiomorello
Native Lang: Portuguese
Spoken Lang: Portuguese and English
Target lang : Japanese
Comment: i'm not thaaaaat fluent in English and I do have a strange accent, haha. We can play some games, for sure.
+ Show Spoiler [Romanian] +
TL: InfusedTT.DaZe
Skype:spqrdaze
Native lang: Romanian
Spoken lang: English C2, French B1
Target lang: Japanese begginer
+ Show Spoiler [Vietnamese] +TL: foxj Skype: PM for info Spoken Lang: Vietnamese ( native ) - English ( writing and speaking ) Target lang : Korean beginner or Thai beginner, English ( Read comment ) Comment: + Show Spoiler +Surely i can communicate by writing well. But my listening skill is just horrible, mistakes in pronounce and I lack of the confidence in conversation. I really hope this thread will help me out  Thanks a lot ps: I have the interests in Thai and korean as well but i have no idea about them, would love to learn one first if any native speaker help me 
Study Partners
categorized by target language.
Learn together with others at your level
+ Show Spoiler [Chinese Learners] +TL: Anatase Skype: PM for info Spoken language : French, English (B2/C1) Target Lang: Chinese, basics + Show Spoiler [Comment] +So if you are a mandarin speaker and want to learn french i am all-in for an exchange. Arguably i also propose that we play some games (ie sc/dota2/ w/e) and try individually to speak/comment in our target language; for example : if you want to say "i'm getting badly raped there i need help" you should try to say "je me fais défoncer, j'ai besoin d'aide" (good familiar translation if you ever need. TL: DuunSuhuy Skype: brown.eric.m Native Lang: English Target Lang: Mandarin (A2/B1); Swedish
+ Show Spoiler [English Learners] +TL: foxj Skype: PM for info Spoken Lang: Vietnamese ( native ) - English ( writing and speaking ) Target lang : Korean beginner or Thai beginner, English ( Read comment ) Comment: + Show Spoiler +Surely i can communicate by writing well. But my listening skill is just horrible, mistakes in pronounce and I lack of the confidence in conversation. I really hope this thread will help me out Thanks a lot ps: I have the interests in Thai and korean as well but i have no idea about them, would love to learn one first if any native speaker help me
+ Show Spoiler [French Learners] +TL: Meepman Skype: PM for info Spoken Lang: English (native) Target lang : French fluency Comment: + Show Spoiler +Don't know how good of a teacher I can be, but I'm definitely willing to put serious time into it.
+ Show Spoiler [German Learners] +
TL: AirbladeOrange
Skype: PM me
Spoken Lang: English (native)
Target lang : German (I'm currently only at a very basic level)
Comment: I'm interested in short Skype learning conversations and finding a penpal
TL: Flicky
Skype: PM for info
Native Lang: English
Target Lang: German, A1, maybe A2~
+ Show Spoiler [Japanese learners] +TL: Flip9 Skype: please PM me for info Spoken Lang: German (mother language), English (Fluently, learned it almost 10 years at school) Target lang : Japanese (between JLPT N4 and N3) + Show Spoiler [Comment] + I seriously study japanese for 3 years but unfortunately have to learn the most on my own. I like learning kanji, but my grammar and speaking skills are very poor.
If you speak no Japanese and want to chat in german, thats OK for me too.
Just PM me your skype name please TL: InfusedTT.DaZe Skype:spqrdaze Native lang: Romanian Spoken lang: English C2, French B1 Target lang: Japanese begginer TL: LA_Morello Skype: caiomorello Native Lang: Portuguese Spoken Lang: Portuguese and English Target lang : Japanese Comment: i'm not thaaaaat fluent in English and I do have a strange accent, haha. We can play some games, for sure. TL: Nanikure skype: P337isL337 native lang: English Spoken lang: Thai B2, Japanese A2/B1 Target lang: Japanese Intermediate + Show Spoiler [Comment] +I'm looking for someone to practice writing/speaking with. I also play League of Legends a lot if anyone wants practice while gaming. TL: Marimokkori Skype: Nuada2723 Fluent Lang: English Target Lang: Japanese, basic conversation, N4 TL: Toadesstern Skype: PM for info Fluent Lang: German (native), English Target Lang: Japanese
+ Show Spoiler [Korean Learners] +TL: Ergalle Skype: via PM Spoken: Italian (native), English Target: korean (basic) TL: foxj Skype: PM for info Spoken Lang: Vietnamese ( native ) - English ( writing and speaking ) Target lang : Korean beginner or Thai beginner, English ( Read comment ) Comment: + Show Spoiler +Surely i can communicate by writing well. But my listening skill is just horrible, mistakes in pronounce and I lack of the confidence in conversation. I really hope this thread will help me out Thanks a lot ps: I have the interests in Thai and korean as well but i have no idea about them, would love to learn one first if any native speaker help me TL: Kohonski Skype: PM for info Spoken Lang: English (Fluent) Target lang : Korean (Very basic/elementary. About a month of study) TL: FeelTHeBluEZ Skype: freakonacage Fluent Lang: German (native); English Target Lang: Korean, beginner - 2months of study TL: r3dox Skype: pm me Spoken: German Target: korean ^^
+ Show Spoiler [Thai Learners] +TL: foxj Skype: PM for info Spoken Lang: Vietnamese ( native ) - English ( writing and speaking ) Target lang : Korean beginner or Thai beginner, English ( Read comment ) Comment: + Show Spoiler +Surely i can communicate by writing well. But my listening skill is just horrible, mistakes in pronounce and I lack of the confidence in conversation. I really hope this thread will help me out Thanks a lot ps: I have the interests in Thai and korean as well but i have no idea about them, would love to learn one first if any native speaker help me
+ Show Spoiler [Crazy guy learning too much at once] +TL: JieXian Skype: PM for info Fluent Lang: Chinese, Maylay, English Target Languages: French (B2), Spanish (B1), Portugese - functional, German and Russian - terrible with all the grammar but functional with the internet by my side Native/Spoken languages: English, Chinese, Malay + Show Spoiler [Comment] +I don't speak like the English or anything but I can definitely help you since I've been using these 3 languages all my life.
I'm learning languages because I find it fascinating because it's about it's history, culture and moreover, people.
And it feels bloody awesome to be able to talk to someone who you otherwise wouldn't be able to or wouldn't be talking to or understand that song you've liked or understand the subtleties that translations miss in movies and music.
Please PM me and we'll chat via Skype or MSN, or if you just want to chat with someone from Malaysia, especially if you love music :D
Study Tips
Taken from posts in this thread as well as around the web
-Take breaks while studying. It's easier on your mind/body and you remember better if you take short breaks between intervals of studying
-Get new words to learn from things like TV shows and articles, don't pick random words because you don't know how common they are.
-Use new words after you learn them. Use them in your next conversation with an exchange partner, or your next journal on lang-8. This dramatically increases retention rate and recall ability.
-Study vocabulary BOTH ways. + Show Spoiler +This means (in my case) be able to recognize a Japanese word and know the meaning in English, AND be able to produce the word in Japanese when given the English meaning. Studying both will help not just your comprehension, but you will write and speak more naturally with fewer pauses to think of vocabulary.
-Speak in your target language as much as possible
-Get a hold of an audio lesson program. Pimsleur or Michel Thomas spring to mind.
General links for more information
Spaced Repetition
Spacing Effect - Idea behind Spaced Repetition
Language Education - Typical teaching styles and ideas behind them
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2nd Worst City in CA8938 Posts
Great OP, great initiative! Unfortunately I'm not good enough at English nor Japanese to be a proper exchange partner, but I really hope things work out.
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I am an Italian native speaker, I am willing to help with both Italian and English. Skype contact upon request via PM.
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Speaking Chinese is a lot easier if you speak another one of its dialects. I myself translate Mandarin into Cantonese in my head before speaking sometimes.
Writing it though is another story. There's so many characters and so much lines and strokes to memorize that it's really easy to give up.
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I would really like to work on my Norwegian, if any of you norsk friends are up for it, message me
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England2659 Posts
I am currently learning German and I am planning to start learning Italian next year. I am unsure if I will need help with Italian (I have a friend who is super excited to teach and talk with me) but if anyone else is planning to learn Italian, I am up for becoming a learning partner!
For German, someone I could skype or chat with would be helpful. I know a few people but they're often busy and I'm not able to speak daily. An hour of conversation on random days would be incredibly helpful.
In return, I greatly enjoy improving the English of others. If you are a german with shaky knowledge of English, I can try to help but I'm unsure if my German is up to standard (I would guess it's A1, maybe A2~). if you have a good level of English I can chat with you to help you improve and explain the more subtle nuances in british english.
If you're interested in any of these offers, just PM me here!
___________________________________
Just a little bit about learning: What has worked best for me is picking up a Teach Yourself: Complete German book alongside a proper two-language dictionary (look up everything it needs before buying one). Get a hold of an audio lesson program (Pimsleur or Michel Thomas spring to mind, I prefer pimsleur for now mostly due to the shorter lessons) and stick to doing that every day. Meanwhile work through your book as much as possible and don't worry about grammar. Grammar will come to you eventually and if it doesn't, learn it later. It's no fun to spend a week trying to learn all the forms of every german verb or grinding out seperable verbs, so save it for when you're motivated to do so. You'll pick up a lot of it as you go. Use flashcard software to help memorise words you have already seen or learnt (this way you don't get the wrong meaning or find yourself learning "useless" words. Use your early time wisely.) I would never grind out random English words, so why do it in a second language?
Try and speak to someone as much as possible without reverting to your own language. You learn a lot from general conversation and it will teach you things you haven't learnt in your textbook.
As far as writing goes, I have just started writing long messages to a German friend living in Malaysia. I don't get to see him online much so I figured this is a good way to keep in touch. My plan for now is to write something out to the best of my ability, double check it and whatnot then send it over to them and to someone else to check my grammar etc. Note that some friends probably won't want to be proof-reading and correcting things you send them so it can be worth splitting this up amongst others. Remember that they're doing you a big favour.
Find a show you like (which is simple in English already) and watch a dubbed version with subtitles in that language. Note down phrases or words you understand or like. Pick out a few nouns, verbs or adjectives that you don't know (not all of them) and find the meaning, then add them to your flashcards if you want. After a while, go back and watch the episodes again to track progress and see how many more times you laugh at Futurama. (Note, if you are in Europe, you might find many of the DVDs you own have the dubs and subs on them already. My Futurama 1-3 have Italian dubs/subs and my copy of Life of Brian has German subs/dubs).
I have also found while studying from lessons or a textbook (courtesy of people from youtube) that working for 25 mins, then taking a 5 minute break will keep you working for much longer without burning out. In these five minutes, do something relaxing or that needs doing or try and find music in your target language and listen to that. So as not to break any immersion you have going too much. You will have to decide for yourself what is studying and what isn't. I don't feel like I need a 5 minute break after watching German TV.
Also be warned that it can be a lonely pursuit to learn a language. If you've been working in German for two hours and doing well, you may become annoyed when your english roommate comes in for a chat or when someone tries some small talk or that you might want to play games with your friends but that would break your immersion for the day. You need to balance these two things carefully. "Make new friends but keep the old, one is silver and the other is gold".
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Finally, does anyone know what some good goals are for Language learning? I know of the START goal system which works around having quantifiable goals in a time limit to help you stick to them but what are some good examples of that for languages? I find learning x words a tedious grind, especially if I'm not able to use half of them and I don't think "talking for 10 minutes without mistakes" is something I can quantify. Anyone have any suggestions?
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On October 26 2012 18:19 Passion wrote:
What's N3/4?
N3 and N4 refer to difficulty levels of the JLPT (Japanese Language Proficiency Test)
N5 is the easiest, N1 is the hardest.
More information about it here:
http://www.jlpt.jp/e/
On October 26 2012 18:26 Flicky wrote:
Finally, does anyone know what some good goals are for Language learning? I know of the START goal system which works around having quantifiable goals in a time limit to help you stick to them but what are some good examples of that for languages? I find learning x words a tedious grind, especially if I'm not able to use half of them and I don't think "talking for 10 minutes without mistakes" is something I can quantify. Anyone have any suggestions?
I'll probably start a "Study tips" section and include some ideas from your post.
As for goals... it sounds like German has a standard of measuring your ability? Make hitting the next level within a certain time frame a goal. Write so many letters a month (check out lang-8.com if you are worried about overloading friends). Perhaps a section on goal setting would be nice. I really like the "Setting goals" written by eshlow in the fitness forum. - link - Just need to adjust it to language instead of physical training.
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Italki is a wonderful resource if you are looking for language partners or people to correct your writing. You can also have skype lessons with professional teachers at a very affordable price.
http://www.italki.com
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I've been watching a lot of Benny Lewis videos and he has been amazing! I'm motivated to learn a new language such as Korean. The thing is time is my enemy and perhaps video games are too.
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I've been "playing with" Japanese for years, and only seriously started studying it in the past couple of months. I learned the kana years ago (Thanks to My Japanese Coach for DS, about the only thing I think it was *really* good for), but when I see kanji, my eyes just kinda glaze over it.
Right now, I'm using Heisig's "Remembering the Kanji" (with Anki, of course) to learn them. Yes, I still won't know all of the readings yet, but when I see a kanji now, my mind doesn't just say "that's too complicated, I'm skipping that," and instead will actually process it and remember the meaning I have assigned for it. From there, I've been playing a lot of text-heavy with voice-over JP import games (specifically, right now I'm dividing my time between Idolm@aster 2 and Atelier Meruru), so now I can hear the words that I already knew, see the kanji for it, put it together, and lock down the actual kanji writing for a word.
I can't tell if it's a more efficient or less efficient way to learn the kanji than the "grind it out" method, but it's working for me, and it's something I'm sticking to for a long period, which is more than I can say for all the Rosetta Stone/Pimsleur/JP coach stuff I was doing. Plus, I'm constantly keeping either JP music or a movie or an original language anime running in the background. The absolute HARDEST part when starting out (in any language I believe) is just being able to hear it and separate the words in your head so it just doesn't sound like a jumble of random characters. The only way to get past this is to listen to the language, repeatedly. Plus it's a ton of fun when you've got your media running in the background, and a word comes across that was just a jumble to you before and you can say, "HEY! I learned that today!" It gives you a huge boost to continue your studies.
My advice to learning a language is just to pick something and do it and have fun with it. If it turns out to be the "wrong" way, whatever, at least you were doing something, and you were learning something from it. If it's no fun for you, you absolutely will not stick with it long enough to learn the language, period. There are a TON of resources out there to help learn the language, and endless amounts of literature and materials in the native language itself. Just find something you enjoy, and do it because you enjoy it.
Has anyone had experience with the "Core 2000" system at all for JP? I know it's changed to iKnow in recent years, but there's a ton of flashcards up in Anki for it, and I was wondering if that's a direction worth pursuing for vocab/grammatical knowledge?
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If you're looking for native speakers to correct your writing or tell you how to say stuff naturally then I recommend http://lang-8.com
If you want to find language partners or a place to chat (or voice-chat) with people in real time then www.sharedtalk.com is another good site. There are a ton of users, and it's well moderated so you don't have to deal with too many creeps or weirdos.
Also, I'm sure I've mentioned it before but Anki is the best tool for memorising vocab imo.
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Great to see this thread created, nothing keeps you more motivated than learning with others
Im learning japanese and Im wondering if there are any written works where the kanjis are written out in hiragana (best would be if the reading was written next to the kanji). I can read hiragana/katakana but I know about 5 kanjis, which still leaves me unable to read things. Does anything like that exist or do I have to learn a good amount of kanji before I can start reading things?
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Think there's already a thread for this, but I like how this one is organized. I've taken 6 years of French, and i'm on my 2nd year of Japanese (the program ends after this year ;\), but i'll be starting up Chinese next year, so definitely looking to get strong in Chinese, Japanese, and hopefully German if I have the time!
edit, @the guy above me, in certain textbooks they have readings at the end with Furigana (the hiragana written above the Kanji) written in. Genki is the textbook my University uses, and it's great like that. Also, for any Japanese learners I highly recommend the dictionary app (for iPhone, dunno about Android) called Kobota. I think the name has been updated to Imiha(pronounced wa I think? Haven't seen how its written since I haven't updated, but that would make sense from the meaning). It gives you a billion Kanji to learn, has example sentences, etc etc. Really a great app, saves me all the time.
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England2659 Posts
On October 26 2012 22:47 FuRong wrote:If you're looking for native speakers to correct your writing or tell you how to say stuff naturally then I recommend http://lang-8.com
New addiction incoming...
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I don't know if it is any relevant to this, but since I'm learning Korean (on my own T_T) I guess talktomeinkorean.com belongs in here. I don't know about the quality of it in higher levels, but the start (level 1-2) is really good and focused on (formal) everyday things and dialogues, which are easily understandable. I personally can understand now a few words and phrases out of songs and dramas, so I guess it's not that bad. I'm learning Korean now for about 2 months just for reference.
So to the Skype part .. I guess I can help if anybody really wants to:
I'm an 18yo native Austrian (German language for everybody who doesn't know) and fluent in English (not native-level, since my vocab isn't all the best, but I can talk/write/read without any problems). I never tried to teach or help with a language, and I'm usually a bit shy to people I don't know, but as soon as I'm in my comfort zone, there shouldn't be any problem what so ever Just add me and ask something if you want to (Skype: freakonacage)
If anybody wants to help me with learning Korean, I'm open to that too! But be warned ... I'm not really able to form simple sentences yet, It's more a chunk of grammar and vocab I currently have T_T
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I'm an American who's fluent in English and Thai, I've taken four semesters of Japanese--although I've been out of the loop for about a year--and I would love someone to practice my Japanese with.
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So many Japanese learner nowadadys. I'm wondering why....
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On October 27 2012 00:21 YoruWaAkeru wrote:
So many Japanese learner nowadadys. I'm wondering why....
I think a lot of people start Japanese because they watch a lot of anime and want to be super cool guys; those people usually quit pretty early. Personally I've always wanted to tell people I can speak three languages, but I didn't want any of the languages to be similar at all (English, Spanish, French for example.) I also like the way Japanese sounds as opposed to other languages like Mandarin (Thai sounds the coolest though.)
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Great thread, But i think the Language exchange/partners should be set up in a different thread.
I propose this scheme for language exchange info:
TL: name
Skype: info or PM
Native Lang:
Spoken Lang: native+other lang- level included, I only know the european scale.
Target lang : lang+lvl targeted
Comment: if you have any special proposition to make like mine (playing games)
Nonetheless :
TL: Anatase
Skype: PM for info
Native language : French
Spoken language : French, English (B2/C1)
Target Lang: Chinese basics
Comment :
So if you are a mandarin speaker and want to learn french i am all-in for an exchange. Arguably i also propose that we play some games (ie sc/dota2/ w/e) and try individually to speak/comment in our target language; for example : if you want to say "i'm getting badly raped there i need help" you should try to say "je me fais défoncer, j'ai besoin d'aide" (good familiar translation if you ever need.
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Yes yes YES! I've been trying to learn German but it's been tough for me to find things beyond vocabulary. I took some German in high school and college but I forgot most of it because I didn't use it.
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On October 27 2012 00:35 AirbladeOrange wrote:
Yes yes YES! I've been trying to learn German but it's been tough for me to find things beyond vocabulary. I took some German in high school and college but I forgot most of it because I didn't use it.
Could you give me a site where I can get a decent vocabulary?
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Another thing we can propose is some kind of Mumbles/TS meeting where it is not only 2 peoples but let say 3/4 - maximum 6 i would say.
Being in a group might be kind of impressive to the point you fear to speak but being in group also mean you can get more support, meet more people, improve fast because of more conversation.
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On October 27 2012 00:43 anatase wrote:
Another thing we can propose is some kind of Mumbles/TS meeting where it is not only 2 peoples but let say 3/4 - maximum 6 i would say.
Being in a group might be kind of impressive to the point you fear to speak but being in group also mean you can get more support, meet more people, improve fast because of more conversation.
I really like the idea of this, in a group it is so much easier to just speak freely, since it is not so direct imo.
Would be cool if something like this could be set up
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On October 27 2012 00:43 YoruWaAkeru wrote:Show nested quote +On October 27 2012 00:35 AirbladeOrange wrote:
Yes yes YES! I've been trying to learn German but it's been tough for me to find things beyond vocabulary. I took some German in high school and college but I forgot most of it because I didn't use it. Could you give me a site where I can get a decent vocabulary?
memrise.com
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Hey there. Can you add me please?
Native german (from Hessen, so no Bavarian. Just plain old normal german^^).
If someone wants to talk via skype or TL.pms from time to time feel free to send me a PM.
Skype information is available via TL.pm.
I'm learning Japanese but nowhere good enough to really talk yet so I'm fine with talking german+english atm. Hopefully I'll add japanese next year.
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Ah I love languages. Mostly I just enjoy having a look at how they work, how they are build, how the grammar and phonology works etc. The result is that I can understand very basic sentences but haven't learned anything properly in almost all of them (around 20 or so).
If you want to go up the walls out of frustration, if you want to feel you brain explode, I suggest taking a look at some polysynthetic languages like Salish, Chukchi, Kalaallisut, Nahuatl, Blackfoot, Navajo etc
On October 27 2012 00:43 YoruWaAkeru wrote:Show nested quote +On October 27 2012 00:35 AirbladeOrange wrote:
Yes yes YES! I've been trying to learn German but it's been tough for me to find things beyond vocabulary. I took some German in high school and college but I forgot most of it because I didn't use it. Could you give me a site where I can get a decent vocabulary?
If you don't want to follow the vocab of some book I suggest using frequency lists, which are lists that order words depending on how often they appear. You can create your own flash card deck in anki and include pronounciation audio files of native speakers. At first it might take you a bit longer to create your own cards but if you do it for a while it shouldn't take longer then 30 seconds to create one.
http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Wiktionary:Frequency_lists/German_subtitles_1000
click on lemma form, copy paste that shit into your flashcard, download audiofile, add audio to flashcard, done.
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On October 26 2012 23:03 solidbebe wrote:Great to see this thread created, nothing keeps you more motivated than learning with others Im learning japanese and Im wondering if there are any written works where the kanjis are written out in hiragana (best would be if the reading was written next to the kanji). I can read hiragana/katakana but I know about 5 kanjis, which still leaves me unable to read things. Does anything like that exist or do I have to learn a good amount of kanji before I can start reading things?
The characters you are talking about actually have a name. They are called furigana, and they appear mainly in children's and young adult books/manga. They will never appear in other material unless the kanji or reading is incredibly rare.
On October 27 2012 00:32 Nanikure wrote:Show nested quote +On October 27 2012 00:21 YoruWaAkeru wrote:
So many Japanese learner nowadadys. I'm wondering why.... I think a lot of people start Japanese because they watch a lot of anime and want to be super cool guys; those people usually quit pretty early. Personally I've always wanted to tell people I can speak three languages, but I didn't want any of the languages to be similar at all (English, Spanish, French for example.) I also like the way Japanese sounds as opposed to other languages like Mandarin (Thai sounds the coolest though.)
I'm learning Japanese because I love the culture. Origami was my gateway drug to Japan. I actually don't like anime that much, most of it is garbage. I've been to Japan twice, including Tokyo, Nagoya, and Sapporo. I absolutely love it there and can not wait to return. I'll be moving there once I finish school (with a degree in Japanese).
However, you are correct. Most people interested in Japan and/or the language get there interest from anime.
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/XAR2J.jpg)
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Awesome!
I started studying japanese a few months ago - my interest comes from anime and japanese games. I know kana, about 40 kanjis and very few words.
Would love to study with another fans of Starcraft.
TL: LA_Morello
Skype: caiomorello
Native Lang: Portuguese
Spoken Lang: Portuguese and English
Target lang : Japanese
Comment: i'm not thaaaaat fluent in English and I do have a strange accent, haha. We can play some games, for sure.
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Skype : please PM me incase get spams >_>
Native/Spoken languages : English, Chinese, Malay
Target Languages:
French (B2),
Spanish (B1),
Portugese - functional,
German and Russian - terrible with all the grammar but functional with the internet by my side <-- that's how I learnt my Spanish, never been to classes
...to be learning: Arabic/Italian :D
I don't speak like the English or anything but I can definitely help you since I've been using these 3 languages all my life.
I'm learning languages because I find it fascinating because it's about it's history, culture and moreover, people.
And it feels bloody awesome to be able to talk to someone who you otherwise wouldn't be able to or wouldn't be talking to or understand that song you've liked or understand the subtleties that translations miss in movies and music.
Please PM me and we'll chat via Skype or MSN, or if you just want to chat with someone from Malaysia, especially if you love music :D
________________________________________________________________________________________________
Conversationexchange.com is a great place to find people too. My sister and I found way better people from there than from sharedtalk.
I learn by listening to audiobooks such as Michel Thomas (not really useful for Chinese or Japanese) and Pimsleur. Both have their pros and cons but both of them complement each other really well. I recommend finishing Michel Thomas then listening to Pimsleur and go back again.
Michel Thomas
Pros: Builds a strong foundation enabling you to understand the structure of the language.
Cons: lacking badly in vocab
Pimsleur
Pros: Builds fluency and aides remembering phrases and grammar effortlessly, listen to the native speak in imaginary scenarios.
Cons : It's targeted for married businessmen, doesn't explain the grammar rules in detail, just makes you repeat it, which is why I recommend listening to Michel Thomas first. Vocab is better than Michel Thomas but not better than Memrise or Anki but at least you get to hear the words in sentences. Russian one has phrases which are quite different than what a native would say, I don't know why
On October 27 2012 01:10 Toadesstern wrote:
Hey there. Can you add me please?
Native german (from Hessen, so no Bavarian. Just plain old normal german^^).
If someone wants to talk via skype or TL.pms from time to time feel free to send me a PM.
Skype information is available via TL.pm.
I'm learning Japanese but nowhere good enough to really talk yet so I'm fine with talking german+english atm. Hopefully I'll add japanese next year.
oh you Germans haha
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I love this idea! I speak spanish fluently but I don't speak it too much anymore, I'd love to keep up on that. I've also started trying to teach myself italian (knowing spanish is making a lot of things easier, but I'm not sure if I am using the right pronunciation).
Something I found real useful when I was learning spanish was reading a book in spanish, one that I knew pretty well in english, out loud. Reading a familiar book makes it so you can piece together what is being said and reading out loud helps with pronunciation.
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hi,
My tip for all new japanese learners is to learn and use kana pretty early, it makes things easier and you can use more learning resorces.
regarding japanese textbooks, I recommend the Minna no Nihongo books. Imo this are pretty good books if you learned for 1-2 months already and know the totaly basics. What I especially like in it are the exercises.
z-Kanji is a pretty good program you can download for free, its a english-japanese dictionary with some nice little features, you can f.e. display the JLPT level or the stroke order of the kanji
please add me to the list:
TL: Flip9
Skype: please PM me for info
Spoken Lang: German (mother language), English (Fluently, learned it almost 10 years at school)
Target lang : Japanese (between JLPT N4 and N3)
Comment: I seriously study japanese for 3 years but unfortunately have to learn the most on my own. I like learning kanji, but my grammar and speaking skills are very poor.
If you speak no Japanese and want to chat in german, thats OK for me too.
Just PM me your skype name please
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Great i see this is getting on well.
If i may add something more:
This thread is dedicated to the Partners/langague exchange.
It is the same as the SC2 partners Thread:
Come give your informations there and let this topic flourish on tool and experience/advices
if, obviously it suits everyone.
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Why have two threads for exchange partners? People are going to be using both anyway.
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To leave your thread exclusively for tools and discussion about learning strategies/advices vocab.
While the other would be exclusively for people to add information and to be some kind of database.
I would be easier I think.
Ofc i would delete the other one if nobody uses it
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I don't think this thread will be updated that much considering tools or learning strategies and so on to be honest.
I guess using one thread is just fine. Way less confusing as well.
///Edit:///
On October 27 2012 00:32 Nanikure wrote:Show nested quote +On October 27 2012 00:21 YoruWaAkeru wrote:
So many Japanese learner nowadadys. I'm wondering why.... I think a lot of people start Japanese because they watch a lot of anime and want to be super cool guys; those people usually quit pretty early. Personally I've always wanted to tell people I can speak three languages, but I didn't want any of the languages to be similar at all (English, Spanish, French for example.) I also like the way Japanese sounds as opposed to other languages like Mandarin (Thai sounds the coolest though.)
Mmmh idk. For me it's kind of the other way around. I started watching anime once I started learning japanese hoping it would help. Does that make me one of those who are going to quit soon or one of those who are going to stick with it?
It's actually pretty simple: My friends know about it therefore I can't just quit, would be way to embarrassing :p
Not to mention that it's INCREDIBLY funny. It's really like playing an instrument. Sure, technically speaking you're working but it doesn't feel that way and you're doing it because you WANT to.
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Fave'ing. Thanks for stepping up and making a great OP for the subject. I want to come back to this. (someday when I stop letting my excuses convince me otherwise  ) There's a voice screaming at me in the back of my mind for not learning mandarin Chinese yet. My department is full of native Chinese students and I really would like to communicate better with them.
Lol, anatase, I lol'ed your example. X-D
... [in-game] if you want to say "i'm getting badly raped there i need help" you should try to say "je me fais défoncer, j'ai besoin d'aide"
On October 27 2012 00:32 Nanikure wrote:Show nested quote +On October 27 2012 00:21 YoruWaAkeru wrote:
So many Japanese learner nowadadys. I'm wondering why.... I think a lot of people start Japanese because they watch a lot of anime and want to be super cool guys; those people usually quit pretty early.
I watched a fair bit of anime myself a couple years ago. It actually helped me learn some of the basic terms repeated often across shows. It's definitely not enough instruction compared to formal/actual teaching, but it was a start. Church had an old cassette tape learning tool, put 2 and 2 together, and wa-bam: thought to myself, "I CAN DO THIS!!" + Show Spoiler +...yeah, it's largely tapered off by now, lol X-D
You're right, though. It's extremely easy to quit that way....
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On October 27 2012 01:04 solidbebe wrote:Show nested quote +On October 27 2012 00:43 YoruWaAkeru wrote:On October 27 2012 00:35 AirbladeOrange wrote:
Yes yes YES! I've been trying to learn German but it's been tough for me to find things beyond vocabulary. I took some German in high school and college but I forgot most of it because I didn't use it. Could you give me a site where I can get a decent vocabulary? memrise.com
Yeah, that's the best place I've found for vocabulary so far.
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Ok, for a Chinese Flashcard and Dictionary program, Pleco is superior to anything else out there right now.
http://www.pleco.com/
It's available on iOS and Android.
Another one is Scritter, it's 9.99 a month, but it's a good spaced repetition program for learning to write Chinese characters.
For more advanced learners, some great TV shows can be found on youtube and tv.sohu.com.
I would definitely check out:
非诚勿扰 - https://www.youtube.com/user/JSTVFeichengwurao (dating gameshow)
屌丝男士 - http://tv.sohu.com/s2012/diorsman/ (comedy sketches. A lot is funny even without knowing Chinese)
Both of these are great for colloquialisms and comedy. If anyone wants to PM me I can help find TV or Movies that would interest you.
Another resource for lesson type material is ChinesePOD. They have updated a lot of their material and it has exercises pre-built for a lot of their lessons. A great learning structure. They have free podcasts, but the lessons are subscription based.
General language exchange and lesson sites I have found are:
www.fluentin3months.com - This guy goes and learns a bunch of languages and blogs about it. An interesting website with some really useful information.
www.livemocha.com - This has some basic lessons for free. It's ok, anyone beyond the very basics will find it too easy. But it is a nice platform to find and interact with native speakers.
Busuu.com - same as livemocha.
This is just a basic list of resources. If you are looking for something specific for language learning in any language please let me know. I love language. I intend to get a degree in Linguistics focusing on second language acquisition.
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This thread needs more love 
I really thought we had more people on TL learning languages so maybe it's just because the thread was up for such a short time?
Anayways a little update: I've been in contact with Flicky for a week now. We're chatting in german on skype for something like an hour or maybe up to two hours like 2 or 3 times a week and frankly speaking I think he's already better than last week lol. At least it looks like he's having an easier time writing "freely" from what I've seen yesterday.
Oh and btw it's hilariously difficult to write properly in your own language on the internet if you're used to internet chit-chat. I keep forgetting to capitalize words properly and of course getting rid of all those abbreviations is hard as well :p
But it's really astonishing that he's able to understand me so easily when talking german because I'm not holding back grammar-wise at all.
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TL: foxj
Skype: PM for info
Spoken Lang: Vietnamese ( native ) - English ( writing and speaking )
Target lang : Korean beginner or Thai beginner, English ( Read comment )
Comment:
+ Show Spoiler +Surely i can communicate by writing well. But my listening skill is just horrible, mistakes in pronounce and I lack of the confidence in conversation. I really hope this thread will help me out Thanks a lot ps: I have the interests in Thai and korean as well but i have no idea about them, would love to learn one first if any native speaker help me
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TL: Kohonski
Skype: PM for info
Spoken Lang: English (Fluent)
Target lang : Korean (Very basic/elementary. About a month of study)
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England2659 Posts
On November 01 2012 22:31 Toadesstern wrote:This thread needs more love I really thought we had more people on TL learning languages so maybe it's just because the thread was up for such a short time? Anayways a little update: I've been in contact with Flicky for a week now. We're chatting in german on skype for something like an hour or maybe up to two hours like 2 or 3 times a week and frankly speaking I think he's already better than last week lol. At least it looks like he's having an easier time writing "freely" from what I've seen yesterday. Oh and btw it's hilariously difficult to write properly in your own language on the internet if you're used to internet chit-chat. I keep forgetting to capitalize words properly and of course getting rid of all those abbreviations is hard as well :p But it's really astonishing that he's able to understand me so easily when talking german because I'm not holding back grammar-wise at all.
Thanks for the good review!
I really think anyone on the fence here should try this out. Todes has been really good so far and with the DotA/LoL/BW backgrounds there's definitely plenty to talk about.
Talking with him has just shown how out of whack my reading comprehension is compared to my writing. It would be like:
"Hey, what do you think of cat?"
"Oh wow, I adore cats. Absolutely fantastic creatures! We have three cats, all of them three years old. I don't know how I'd live without them!"
"I also like cats. Dogs are also good."
I will try speaking soon~
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On November 01 2012 23:21 Flicky wrote:Show nested quote +On November 01 2012 22:31 Toadesstern wrote:This thread needs more love I really thought we had more people on TL learning languages so maybe it's just because the thread was up for such a short time? Anayways a little update: I've been in contact with Flicky for a week now. We're chatting in german on skype for something like an hour or maybe up to two hours like 2 or 3 times a week and frankly speaking I think he's already better than last week lol. At least it looks like he's having an easier time writing "freely" from what I've seen yesterday. Oh and btw it's hilariously difficult to write properly in your own language on the internet if you're used to internet chit-chat. I keep forgetting to capitalize words properly and of course getting rid of all those abbreviations is hard as well :p But it's really astonishing that he's able to understand me so easily when talking german because I'm not holding back grammar-wise at all. Thanks for the good review! I really think anyone on the fence here should try this out. Todes has been really good so far and with the DotA/LoL/BW backgrounds there's definitely plenty to talk about. Talking with him has just shown how out of whack my reading comprehension is compared to my writing. It would be like: "Hey, what do you think of cat?" "Oh wow, I adore cats. Absolutely fantastic creatures! We have three cats, all of them three years old. I don't know how I'd live without them!" "I also like cats. Dogs are also good." I will try speaking soon~
lol yeah. I tried to be somewhat talkactive because there're only so few topics you can cover so that makes things even more extreme. Like that story about my dad and him not being able to distinguish between German and Swedish while translating. Had nothing (very little) to do with the topic but got us some talk!
///Edit: (totally not a bump)///
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On November 02 2012 01:42 Toadesstern wrote:Show nested quote +On November 01 2012 23:21 Flicky wrote:On November 01 2012 22:31 Toadesstern wrote:This thread needs more love I really thought we had more people on TL learning languages so maybe it's just because the thread was up for such a short time? Anayways a little update: I've been in contact with Flicky for a week now. We're chatting in german on skype for something like an hour or maybe up to two hours like 2 or 3 times a week and frankly speaking I think he's already better than last week lol. At least it looks like he's having an easier time writing "freely" from what I've seen yesterday. Oh and btw it's hilariously difficult to write properly in your own language on the internet if you're used to internet chit-chat. I keep forgetting to capitalize words properly and of course getting rid of all those abbreviations is hard as well :p But it's really astonishing that he's able to understand me so easily when talking german because I'm not holding back grammar-wise at all. Thanks for the good review! I really think anyone on the fence here should try this out. Todes has been really good so far and with the DotA/LoL/BW backgrounds there's definitely plenty to talk about. Talking with him has just shown how out of whack my reading comprehension is compared to my writing. It would be like: "Hey, what do you think of cat?" "Oh wow, I adore cats. Absolutely fantastic creatures! We have three cats, all of them three years old. I don't know how I'd live without them!" "I also like cats. Dogs are also good." I will try speaking soon~ lol yeah. I tried to be somewhat talkactive because there're only so few topics you can cover so that makes things even more extreme. Like that story about my dad and him not being able to distinguish between German and Swedish while translating. Had nothing (very little) to do with the topic but got us some talk! ///Edit: (totally not a bump)///
...... I thought German and Swedish wasn't that close?
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I recommend that people learn from as many different resources as possible instead of linearly going through one. It will cement your knowledge and shore up all the holes. If you try to go from A > B it will be very frustrating. It should be A > A > A > A > B and then back to A. If you ever need to stop, listen, re-listen and decipher what someone is saying, then even if you can translate what they are saying you are at a too high level. Only move on when what you already know what is being said as if its native.
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On November 02 2012 02:30 aloT wrote:
I recommend that people learn from as many different resources as possible instead of linearly going through one. It will cement your knowledge and shore up all the holes. If you try to go from A > B it will be very frustrating. It should be A > A > A > A > B and then back to A. If you ever need to stop, listen, re-listen and decipher what someone is saying, then even if you can translate what they are saying you are at a too high level. Only move on when what you already know what is being said as if its native.
I fear that thoroughness and curiosity are disappointing bedfellows. The major disaster which greets and overcomes most every language learner is lack of discipline and perseverance, and not an incomplete textbook. If the textbooks used by education today are full of gaping holes, which sub-sects its target language into bite-sized themes to rub into the short-term memory, it is reflective of how far our standards of education and attention span have fallen as a whole.
The best thing the learner can do for himself to pave the way to success is to drop any illusions about what it takes to learn a foreign language in the first place. It's a long-term, grueling, and unforgiving endeavour akin to taking a second job, or raising a chaotic child. It is not going to increase your worldly credentials, it will not make you more attractive to society girls, and it is not fun. At least not for the first 500 hours. The rewards are reaped in graying age, where we are surely blessed if we may take solace in the catharsis of a Horatian ode.
If you treat it as a game, you will waste your time playing games.
Now that we have settled that, you need to start with a thorough, and weighty textbook, to overcome many of the bad habits in the grips of our modern didactic decadence. A general good rule of thumb is to look for books which are over 350 pages long, have no pictures, printed before 1970 (or in former communist countries before their classical education systems were corrupted by Western decadence), have indexes of not less than 2000 words, no "cultural information", no mini-games, and not aesthetically appealing in the least. After that, there are many approaches to how you learn the language. Some rely more on intuition and some are more thorough with word and dialogue drills.
I would say though that if you have the right resource, 1 book (or one set of books) should not only be sufficient, but advantageous to your agonising pursuit of self-improvement.
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TL: Meepman
Skype: PM for info
Spoken Lang: English (native)
Target lang : French fluency
Don't know how good of a teacher I can be, but I'm definitely willing to put serious time into it.
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TL: AirbladeOrange
Skype: PM me
Spoken Lang: English (native)
Target lang : German (I'm currently only at a very basic level)
Comment: I'm interested in short Skype learning conversations and finding a penpal
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On November 02 2012 02:07 JieXian wrote:Show nested quote +On November 02 2012 01:42 Toadesstern wrote:On November 01 2012 23:21 Flicky wrote:On November 01 2012 22:31 Toadesstern wrote:This thread needs more love I really thought we had more people on TL learning languages so maybe it's just because the thread was up for such a short time? Anayways a little update: I've been in contact with Flicky for a week now. We're chatting in german on skype for something like an hour or maybe up to two hours like 2 or 3 times a week and frankly speaking I think he's already better than last week lol. At least it looks like he's having an easier time writing "freely" from what I've seen yesterday. Oh and btw it's hilariously difficult to write properly in your own language on the internet if you're used to internet chit-chat. I keep forgetting to capitalize words properly and of course getting rid of all those abbreviations is hard as well :p But it's really astonishing that he's able to understand me so easily when talking german because I'm not holding back grammar-wise at all. Thanks for the good review! I really think anyone on the fence here should try this out. Todes has been really good so far and with the DotA/LoL/BW backgrounds there's definitely plenty to talk about. Talking with him has just shown how out of whack my reading comprehension is compared to my writing. It would be like: "Hey, what do you think of cat?" "Oh wow, I adore cats. Absolutely fantastic creatures! We have three cats, all of them three years old. I don't know how I'd live without them!" "I also like cats. Dogs are also good." I will try speaking soon~ lol yeah. I tried to be somewhat talkactive because there're only so few topics you can cover so that makes things even more extreme. Like that story about my dad and him not being able to distinguish between German and Swedish while translating. Had nothing (very little) to do with the topic but got us some talk! ///Edit: (totally not a bump)/// ...... I thought German and Swedish wasn't that close?
Nooo, it's close.
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On November 02 2012 02:30 aloT wrote:
I recommend that people learn from as many different resources as possible instead of linearly going through one. It will cement your knowledge and shore up all the holes. If you try to go from A > B it will be very frustrating. It should be A > A > A > A > B and then back to A. If you ever need to stop, listen, re-listen and decipher what someone is saying, then even if you can translate what they are saying you are at a too high level. Only move on when what you already know what is being said as if its native.
I'm not sure if I agree with this. Just like working on one sc2 build until it's second nature, this makes you very one dimensional, and you won't be having any kind of communication for a rather long time.
Edit:
To further clarify, things should become natural for you to do as you practice using them. ie, use the build you've learned on the ladder, or use new grammar and vocabulary in a conversation. Even if you don't use it perfectly, hopefully the person you are talking with will correct you.
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I am a native Mandarin Chinese speaker.
Employment: phd student in engineering and currently live in France
My main target language is French atm. I speak basic Korean too.
Games I play atm: CS:GO, SC2 (I haven't bought DOTA2 yet and probably won't coz I need to have a life... :D)
Contact me either if you speak English or French, and want to learn mandarin Chinese. You can not only learn the language but also Chinese culture.
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TL: r3dox
Skype: pm me
Spoken: German
Target: korean ^^
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mistakenly submitted a post..
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Hey.. I'd love to meet someone who speaks Polish and wouldn't mind spending *any* time with me to help me out. I'm trying to l earn it quickly but I know it would help a lot to be able to have someone to speak to and correct me, at all. All I speak is English, and it would be my pleasure to reciprocate. Please PM me if you're interested!
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EPT
