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On October 03 2012 14:36 aeroblaster wrote:Here's how I think it will go down. Spoiler, contains solution. Main Solution + Show Spoiler +Day 1
Time Freezer: Korean. Freezes time for 5 hours a day to have time to think. Get's increasingly bored and frustrated.
Teleport Guy: Australian. Abuses his teleport ability to mess with people, he doesn't know how it will help while he doesn't know where the other's are. Decides to save time on traveling with it.
Death Note Guy: Japanese. Can't do anything, tries to research, comes up with nothing.
Omniscient: British. Asks what powers the other guys have. Now he knows if he's safe. He is, for now. He still doesn't know their locations, so he hides until tomorrow.
GHG: American. Relives the same days trying to figure out where they are with research, comes up with nothing.
Day 2
Omniscient: Asks for the home locations of the others. He is definitely safe, and decides to get on a plane and go after Death Note Guy.
The Others still have no leads.
Day 3
Omniscient: Asks where Death Note is more specifically to have an easier time finding him now that he's near his apartment. He stalks Death Note and tries to sneaky kill him. He kills him after a long struggle, but has his face caught on camera. The others see Omniscient guy on the news.
Death Note guy dead*
Teleport Guy: Finally getting a lead, he quickly googles the location of the murder. The news doesn't say specifically, but he finds the name of the building and teleports there with a gun. He sees the broken window of the apartment. He runs in, finds Omniscient with the Death Note and shoots him.
Omniscient guy dead*
Time Freezer: Lives in Korea and sees that Death Note's murder was in Japan. Knowing Omniscient is there, he takes a short trip to Japan. Arrives and finds Teleport Guy at the building. Freezes time so he can't escape and kills him.
Teleport guy dead*
GHG: Already knew of the murders and events having already lived the 3 days and seen the news of the murders. Arrives at the perfect time and kills Time Freezer.
Time Freezer dead*
Groundhog Guy wins.
This game is a bit flawed as GHG can't lose. Even if he's killed, his ability to remember in the next cycle gives him more intel than Omniscient. The others have no way of killing all of their opponents and GHG in order to win by being the last one standing.
All he has to do to win is wait during the first cycle, and make his trip during the second cycle to kill the last guy alive.
However, there is an alternative solution written below in which Omniscient can win. Alternative Solution + Show Spoiler +If Omniscient is rich, he hires assassins around the world to take out the 4 other contestants.
All he has to is ask for their coordinates and then tell the assassins.
He wins on day 1.
If he's not rich, he asks how to get rich.
Hires assassins on day 2 and wins.
Omniscient wins because he is the last one standing.
The question is, how would he "be on the news"? A random guy killing another random guy? Considering Omniscient guy has no amazing super powers he could do the killing with or anything, he's not exactly attracting enormous attention by killing the guy. How would this possibly make the news? It will barely get put into a local paper (read: about a very small town only), let alone international news broadcast everywhere. People get killed all the time. And even if it does make the news, how, in what possible way, could the others figure out the guy was omniscient guy, considering they have only seen his silhouette (assuming he doesn't have an absurdly comical size that is easily recognizable, obviously).
As for him being rich, if you could have an answer to any question in the world, it honestly isn't very hard to get rich, and considering they've had the power for a year already, the odds of him already being rich are quite large. Honestly, wouldn't you abuse your power in such a way if you got one?
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On October 04 2012 06:51 Hopeless1der wrote:Show nested quote +On October 04 2012 06:30 travis wrote:On October 04 2012 06:14 WaesumNinja wrote:On October 03 2012 09:51 travis wrote:
GHD guy could be beaten easily if they counteract him with randomness. but what kind of random number generator they could actually use that would give different results im not sure. but if they were able to use a random number generator then they could move to different locations based on the randomness Impossible, it would generate the same number every time no matter how intricate it is. nope wrong if GHD is making different actions (which he would be), then things in the universe aren't the exact same On October 04 2012 00:10 kochanfe wrote:On October 03 2012 20:10 Sea_Food wrote:
Winning chances for each competitor
50% Omniscient
40% groundhog
9% timefreeze
1% deathnote
0% teleport
It comes down to how smart these guys are, and how seriously they will play. I'd have to disagree with this (albeit only slightly). I'd say this is pretty accurate but the timefreeze guy and the teleport guy should be switched. I've thought of/heard a couple viable strategies for teleport guy but I can't even fathom a scenario where timefreeze guy wins it all. what do you mean? all he has to do is use his time freeze ability to become powerful enough that he can collect info on where they are. at that point he is literally unstoppable because he can just freeze time and kill them. the issue for him is surviving that long. I disagree about GHG and 'the universe is different'. It's similar enough that things like the lottery numbers should be unaffected. In addition, GHG can perform the same actions (or close enough to them) once he determines a method of finding someone.
You may be right about that, at least I suspect you are (though I wouldn't say it as confidently as you do). But thats why I was talking about the "kind of random number generator". It'd have to be a design that could somehow take advantage of the variation in GHD guy's actions. But you know, maybe it's possible. Butterfly effect and all that.
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So many people assume that GHD will win its astounding, he stands no chance against a smart omniscient guy all he has to do is wait in a safe place untill ghd has used up his repeat then GHD is no threat at all, honestly people, with unlimited information he has by far the best chance of winning as long as he plays safe.
Day 2
Omniscient: Asks for the home locations of the others. He is definitely safe, and decides to get on a plane and go after Death Note Guy.
Why would you do that on day 2, no reason to rush wait and see what the others do first and come up with a sound plan to safely kill them all. Also this is a luxury the others don't have as they have no idea who is after them what there powers are or what they are doing Voice guy knows all that and more if he is smart enough to ask.
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On October 03 2012 01:40 Ikidomari wrote:
the balance was so that it wasn't a 1-sided fight.
Instead of it being Mace vs Sword vs Bow vs Axe vs Guy on a hill with a sniper
It's Mace vs Sword vs Bow vs Axe vs Guy on a hill with a sniper that doesn't have a crosshair. (very VERY loose metaphor)
They all know each others powers, but not identity THEY HAD A YEAR TO TEST THEIR POWERS, in which they all left noticable signs if you were looking for it.
The groundhog guy doesn't "only get a year", because the 1st 3 days of that year are repeated 12000 times, and THEN the next 362 are played out (assuming it is activated immediately) He gets the full year, + 12000 lives at any given 3 day period.
Since the bolded part is mentioned not in the OP but only in his post on the 3rd page of this thread, about half of the whole 20 pages worth of discussion is useless because we are arguing with different rules in mind.
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Omniscient guy would win most definately and most elegant. The identities are completely unknown by all except him. Deathnote guy has the most elegant solution to the killing part, and has no special way to defend himself in the very short term. Find out who he is, and do it quick and dirty while you steal his note. Who doesn't have a picture of himself online somewhere?
In questions and 1 kill a day after;
1. What is the identity of Deathnote guy?
2. Optional: Where is the deathnote?
3. Who is ...?
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On October 04 2012 07:06 MrF wrote:So many people assume that GHD will win its astounding, he stands no chance against a smart omniscient guy all he has to do is wait in a safe place untill ghd has used up his repeat then GHD is no threat at all, honestly people, with unlimited information he has by far the best chance of winning as long as he plays safe. Show nested quote +Day 2
Omniscient: Asks for the home locations of the others. He is definitely safe, and decides to get on a plane and go after Death Note Guy. Why would you do that on day 2, no reason to rush wait and see what the others do first and come up with a sound plan to safely kill them all. Also this is a luxury the others don't have as they have no idea who is after them what there powers are or what they are doing Voice guy knows all that and more if he is smart enough to ask.
He won't have unlimited information though. By the time GHD tries are up he will have figured out a way to kill each person within at least the first day if not within an hour. Meaning that Omniguy has maybe 1 question at most before GHD can kill him. I think some people are forgetting that GHD guys cycles are an exact repeat of the same 3 days meaning that Omniguy will always ask the same question on the first day every time and unless its something like "how do I survive today" then he will die first. I think the only way for him to have a chance is to ask how he survives today 3 times in a row until GHD cycle runs out and the chances of him randomly doing that seem incredibly slim. Even then GHD will know hes going to do that and have made some sort of countermeasures against like being super rich and in power by the 4th day while Omniguy just wastes 3 days gleaning no new info.
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Hmm verry interesting lol.
Did you think of this problem yourself or is it somehow a more well known case?
Annyway:
-Deathnote guy can not kill annyone by himself.He needs a name for this and none of the others would ever use their true name, since they do know of deathnote guys existance.
The only way for deathnote to kill someone is with omni,s help but this leaves him no change as well.
He knows that omni will not reveal his own name , and will kill him with his superior knowledge once the others are deaths.
Result:Deathnote guy goes hiding under a rock and hopes that by some miracle the others all get killed before the year is over.
-Teleport guy can only be killed by deathnote guy, who needs the help of omni to do this.
Against all others he teleports out, to return with superiour armour and firepower, or he can simply go hiding.
-Time freeze guy wins a 1 vs 1 against anny of the other ones,even omni.(simply freezes time, and then kill the other guy) though he can not kill teleport guy, he can be killed by deathnote though with the help of omni.
Teleguy can teleport out , and return when the time freeze is over(i asume).
Time freeze guy can try avoid this by freezing time in the last 5 hours of a day,but teleport guy can even choose not to return, this would strip him of his powers though, and leave him defenseless for the rest of the year.
To avoid this in return, teleport guy starts out every day in a safe spot, then teleports to a neutral spot to start his daily business,and keeping the return teleport as a safety measure, or simply to use at the end of the day and start a new cycle.
-Ghd guy:He does not neccesarely have to kill all the others in 3 days. He could in theory also try to kill the others on anny of the other days in the year wich are not repeated.
He does not have anny powers though,guess groundhog day will start his cycle as soon as he is beeing killed, as i dont see anny value for his power otherwise.
-Omni:Omni can only kill deathnote, the person whos help he needs to kill annyone else.
Omnis only change is helping deathnote kill the other 3, and then kill deathnote.
But deathnote would never cooperate with such a sceme, as it will only result in a certain death for him as well.
He can not kill timefreeze and tele nor Ghb
(as soon as Ghb gets killed by omni, he starts his 3 ground hog days, 3 days before he gets killed, this should allow him to get a huge information advantage over omni,wich he can use to avoid beeing killed on the 3th day last hour)
At first sight it looks like noone will be able to win this:s
@ below:
(ghd can always get 3 days though? since he can choose at wich time his 3 days start it may be in the past, if he gets killed friday noon, he will start his cycle wednesday noon to make sure he has the max amount of time to prevent it?)
And yes, if omni can kill deathnote and take his powers its easy win for him off course, but i asume this is not possible?
Btw about teleguy:Does he need to know and have an image of the position he teleports to, or could he simply go "teleport omni" and end up standing right behind omni ? (with or without gun)
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On October 04 2012 08:35 Rassy wrote:
Hmm verry interesting lol.
Did you think of this problem yourself or is it somehow a more well known case?
Annyway:
-Deathnote guy can not kill annyone by himself.He needs a name for this and none of the others would ever use their true name, since they do know of deathnote guys existance.
The only way for deathnote to kill someone is with omni,s help but this leaves him no change as well.
He knows that omni will not reveal his own name , and will kill him with his superior knowledge once the others are deaths.
Result:Deathnote guy goes hiding under a rock and hopes that by some miracle the others all get killed before the year is over.
-Teleport guy can only be killed by deathnote guy.
Against all others he teleports out, to return with superiour armour and firepower, or he can simply go hiding.
-Time freeze guy wins a 1 vs 1 against anny of the other ones , even omni.(simply freezes time, and then kill the other guy) though he can not kill teleport guy.
Teleguy can teleport out , and return when the time freeze is over(i asume).
Time freeze guy can try avoid this by freezing time in the last 5 hours of a day,but teleport guy can even choose not to return, this would strip him of his powers though, and leave him defenseless for the rest of the year.
To avoid this in return, teleport guy starts out every day in a safe spot, then teleports to a neutral spot to start his daily business,and keeping the return teleport as a safety measure, or simply to use at the end of the day and start a new cycle.
-Ghd guy:He does not neccesarely have to kill all the others in 3 days. He could in theory also try to kill the others on anny of the other days in the year wich are not repeated.
He does not have anny powers though,guess groundhog day will start his cycle as soon as he is beeing killed, as i dont see anny value for his power otherwise.
-Omni:Omni can kill deathnote.
He can not kill timefreeze and tele, not sure about ghg
At first sight it looks like noone will be able to win this:s
Omni takes deathnote. Everybody dies/ghd's cycle is 2 days instead of 3 if omni is lucky.
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Contest starts, freeze time guy freezes time instantly, kills the other 4, gg.
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On October 04 2012 08:54 kmillz wrote:
Contest starts, freeze time guy freezes time instantly, kills the other 4, gg.
He has to travel to 3 continents, somehow find out who these people are and where they live and whatnot, and kill them.
Not within 5 hours, never.
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I really wonder if all the one liners think it's that simple or are just posting for the sake of it.
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On October 04 2012 09:02 antilyon wrote:
I really wonder if all the one liners think it's that simple or are just posting for the sake of it.
No I really thought that was an easy one, I didn't know they were in different continents when are in the "Dream"
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If GHG is not killed in his 3 days, he disappears from the timeline for the other 4 and then it is impossible for them to kill him. Draw. He may perceive it as many tries, but in reality each repeat is creating an alternate reality where he may or may not die. the other 4 only feel it as 3 days and then continue forward in their respective timelines.
Act 1: cycle begins, omniscient guy wins, becomes god in reality 1.
Act 2: GHG wakes up, tries different stuff, anther guy wins, that guy is god in reality 2.
Act3: "
Act...:GHG finally gets his shit together and wins it once, becomes god, uses powers to end his 3 day loop. He is god in whatever reality that is and nobody gets any more chances.
If nobody wins in a 3 day period: GHG's consciousnesses moves on to next cycle, the other 4 are put into a reality with no GHG and no god, live out lives normally.
Essentially GHG has a ton of chances to become a god, his reality never splinters. The other 4 all have a bunch of chances, but they have to live out failed attempts in separate realities from the ones they win in. They are split up between many realities decided by GHG's differing actions.
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Heres the situation
1. GHD guy should do the first three days
2. GHD guy can feasibly discover all of his enemies identities..EXCEPT..
3. Omni guy pretty much has to ask how he can remain anonymous for the first 5 days to protect against GHD guy delaying and because he can assume without knowledge of himself he will probably not die.
4. GHD guy sends death note guy an email with all names except omni and GHD guy who remained anonymous,
5. SCRAP THAT
Actually i think the name of the game is negating GHD guys powers.
Omni asks how to remain anonymous first three days
Freeze time guy immediately freezes time and goes on a boat and kills the inhabitants and stays there three days.
Teleport guy should first go somewhere where he probably wont be seen, and then teleport somewhere with food and water first 3 days. Example: 3rd world country without internet, rich persons backup bunker
Death Note guy is interesting because GHD guy can either steal his powers or manipulate them. Assuming the evasion of GHD strategies work, GHD guy has to plan a kill on death note guy and then play out the game as death note guy.
So, its complicated
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On October 04 2012 09:27 Bippzy wrote:
Heres the situation
1. GHD guy should do the first three days
2. GHD guy can feasibly discover all of his enemies identities..EXCEPT..
3. Omni guy pretty much has to ask how he can remain anonymous for the first 5 days to protect against GHD guy delaying and because he can assume without knowledge of himself he will probably not die.
4. GHD guy sends death note guy an email with all names except omni and GHD guy who remained anonymous,
5. SCRAP THAT
Actually i think the name of the game is negating GHD guys powers.
Omni asks how to remain anonymous first three days
Freeze time guy immediately freezes time and goes on a boat and kills the inhabitants and stays there three days.
Teleport guy should first go somewhere where he probably wont be seen, and then teleport somewhere with food and water first 3 days. Example: 3rd world country without internet, rich persons backup bunker
Death Note guy is interesting because GHD guy can either steal his powers or manipulate them. Assuming the evasion of GHD strategies work, GHD guy has to plan a kill on death note guy and then play out the game as death note guy.
So, its complicated
The more you think about it you realize it's all about how Omni guy can negate GHG from getting the DN or from just flat out killing Omni guy without the Deathnote.
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I think the positioning of the different characters will negate the fate of who wins. Mostly, Korea and Japan, since they are very very close and the other people will be atleast a half a day or more of flight to get to the nearest other person.
The most important are GHG and Omni, and there positioning of DN. If DN is in korea/japan and omni or ghg or in the other. Whoever is in the other country will have a massive advantage to win. Because either can find him in a very short time, get the notebook and both should be able to find the others' names. GHG or omni can't realistically kill teleport or time freeze dude directly in 1v1 so they need the book. Unless they had already used their powers and GHG could kill them if he had used his time to train muscle memory of combat skills.
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I think it actually is that easy. It's either a debate about Free Will or the omniscient guy wins.
1) If there is no free will, Omniscient guy asks for the actions he needs to take in order to win. He either gets a reply with the answer, and follows them to victory, or his reply is N/A if it is impossible for him to do.
Likewise, nothing DN guy can write will change the outcome, only progress as the timeline was supposed to. All the information is in the Omniscient guy's answer...and if he is answered then DN guy nor anyone else can win.
2) If there is free will (and just to inject a little bias, I don't know how their could be), then Omniscient guy would get an answer than would allow him to win, because if he didn't...then either there is no free will because the option for him to win didn't exist in the first place, or this thought experiment is invalid.
Despite the cool options...and having looked at everyone's arguments... i can't think of a way around this one. Especially since it has been shown since my last post that the Death Note cannot extend an individuals life.
What's the counter argument?
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I feel like something needs to be modified. They should know what powers they're up against.
I understand why they don't, but it really makes the whole thing less interesting. We can't really discuss them competing against each other, because GHD's power puts a huge emphasis on a time when everyone is acting blind.
What that means is that we're not really asking "who would win and what should they do?" so much as "what are the odds that omniguy happens to ask how to avoid guy 5 for the first three days?". I'm not saying GHD is OP, but him losing relies on the others blindly doing exactly the right stuff to thwart him. That's kind of dull to me.
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Guy 4 wins. He can ask: How do I kill the other guys? And with one question a day he'll come up with the perfect plan and succeed. The others don't have the ability to know where any of the other guys are or what their names are? So how useless is guy 1, 2, 3, 5? When they can't find other dudes. THE WORLD IS BIG!
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EPT
