EPTMeat is murder. Tasty, tasty murder.
Veganism: A Discussion - Page 7
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Vorgrim
Korea (North)1601 Posts
Meat is murder. Tasty, tasty murder. | ||
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ShatterZer0
United States1843 Posts
On September 21 2012 07:45 Vorgrim wrote: We are meant to consume flesh. That's why it tastes better than any other type of food, and people who indulge are stronger and healthier than those who don't. Meat is murder. Tasty, tasty murder. We aren't meant to consume flesh... we're omnivores that are built to receive any and all food in as large of quantities that we can stomach... and more. Flexible stomachs. It's just that in Hunter Gatherer society that animals can be gorged upon while say, fruits and berries, can't. We enjoy meats because our bodies crave fat reserves, fat reserves we can and would get from plants if we had the choice. (I say this in that hunting animals expended large amount of energy while, for example, picking almonds off a tree expends likely less energy and with less chance of lacerated death) | ||
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AngryMag
Germany1040 Posts
To the discussion, eating habits as a whole should be healthier as a whole in the western world, but this is not a question of "veggie or no veggie" but more a question of education. If people knew what is good for them, we would have much less obese people. | ||
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Kich
United States339 Posts
On September 21 2012 07:33 Rohan wrote: If I hit your dog in my car by accident, on a dark road, on the way home from work and kill it, or if I walk up to it and shoot it is there a difference?  So yeah I'm guessing you misinterpreted my post because you're this like super frightened "used to being picked on" guy--I was in no way attacking you, I was pointing out that the reason people get pissy with you is because you're genuinely annoying in the way you present your arguments. You aren't trying to change anyone's mind or make a difference, you're doing it because you know it bothers other people to annoy them with generally inaccurate information. And for the record, no. There isn't. The dog died. I would find it weird and mysterious that someone shot my dog, but the way something dies has no real impact on the loss felt. By that logic a father would feel more or less grief for their lost child based on how the child went, not that it was gone, which is incorrect. From what I've read you're quite a poor vegan, and seem to care very little about the animals involved and more about being different, which isn't very appealing. | ||
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AngryMag
Germany1040 Posts
On September 21 2012 07:45 AngryMag wrote: I am not vegatarian/vegan, I eat meat because I like it, apart from that my digestive tract and my denture are perfectly fine to do so, how practical. To the discussion, eating habits should be healthier as a whole in the western world, but this is not a question of "veggie or no veggie" but more a question of education. If people knew what is good for them, we would have much less obese people. Ah messed the edit up | ||
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NeonFox
2373 Posts
On September 21 2012 06:10 Djzapz wrote: Reading vegans is always hard to me because of all the partisan stuff. But that's just beautiful. I was eating peanuts earlier, that's like a cumshot in mah face. Come on. Except it's wrong. As opposed to "I heard" and "does it make sense?" there exists actual facts about human consumption of dairy milk. Fun fact is that we are not all equal to it, most westerners are used to drinking it for thousands of generations, whereas a majority of asians don't break it down well. If humans have evolved into being able to digest dairy milk it must mean that it gave an avantage over those that couldn't. Not to mention that saying "a whole different species of animals" makes no sense as well, most mammal milk has the same compounds and can be drunk by humans. You can safely drink goat, sheep, buffalo, and even whale or horse milk! It is true though that cow milk has a higher concentration of proteins and fat than human one, and should be used in reasonable quantities. Edit: spelling | ||
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MountainDewJunkie
United States10346 Posts
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Phael
United States281 Posts
On September 21 2012 07:41 BlueBird. wrote: By your logic if there was a huge blazing fire tearing down a city, we should all start little fires just cause, we can't stop the big fire anyways. I think the more apt comparison is that he's saying we shouldn't dash to put out our fireplaces to stop air pollution when there's a lot more that we can do to counter it. | ||
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CptCutter
United Kingdom370 Posts
On September 21 2012 06:25 SolonTLG wrote: I am vegan for ethical reasons. The health and evironmental improvements are a nice bonus, but not my reason. I see comments above like Veganism is extreme. Well, just because something is an ethical normal now, doesn't make it NOT extreme. Slavery was common in many counties about 150 years ago... Think about it. Finally, here is YouTube video discussing the fate of farmed animals in the United States. 10 Billions Lives Yes, 10 billion animals die for food consumption each year in the States. thats relatively the same as saying the average american eats just under 5lb's of food a day. and im guessing you figure takes into account exports whereas mine does not. its assuming that those 10billion 1150lb bull/cows (and this being the largest? animal being eaten you could consider it an extreme) are not being exported. if were taking into account smaller animals (chickens and the like) the 5lb's per person per day will decrease rapidly. | ||
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BlueBird.
United States3890 Posts
On September 21 2012 07:45 ShatterZer0 wrote: Worst part about veganism in the United States and most other places.... it's hella expensive. Only if you eat fake animal products often and go out to fancy vegan places. It's kind of hard to say that vegetables/fruits/grains which make up the core of the diet, are expensive. Now, I do feel like eating out is slightly more expensive than for non-vegans. For instance, I ate at my "Fast food" place, veggie cafe the other day, and it was 24 dollars for 2 people, I am pretty sure most fast-food places are considerably cheaper and have dollar menu and crap like that(though please if you care about animals at all, avoid McDonalds and their fellow chains, they refuse to upgrade their standards for cage sizes). So if you are eating out, it's going to be expensive. | ||
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Dali.
New Zealand689 Posts
On September 21 2012 07:34 Danglars wrote: If the vegans were a little less radical with the "You are burning down the planet!" they might enjoy a little more societal acceptance. From high school to today, you just don't ask why someone chose veganism, because you're in for an earful. It was a book on animal cruelty at farms for one acquaintance. Another, it was more of a dislike of meats (leading me to wonder why dairy and eggs were rejected, why she went vegan instead of vegetarian). Still think it's a rather shortsighted view towards saving the planet. Economic development in nations still employing slash-and-burn techniques to agriculture will matter more than an army of 500 vegans. That's my own two cents about it. Yes but veganism isn't a bloc. Its an individual's choice. If that individual is a self-righteous prat then that's what they are. The reason they get hated on is presumably because they're going against the grain, are easy to stereotype and are passionate about their choices (it takes a lot of will power to avoid meat - its so good afterall). Characterising all of them because of their public image or anacdotal experience is foolish. I can only think of one vegeterian I know that maybe pushes the boundaries of acceptable conduct surrounding people's choices. One out of 15+ vegetarian/vegans. If you meet a scumbag vegan/vegetarian, then that's just who they are as a person and in no way reflects all other vegan/vegetarians. | ||
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eyya
10 Posts
On September 21 2012 07:44 Ender985 wrote: Also, I've learnt over the years that it is not possible to argue with a vegan/vegetarian. Because essentially means arguing with the other person's beliefs system, which can never be rationalized. Correct, but there are many people who claim to share certain beliefs, e.g. that animals shouldn't be tortured/hurt or whatever, but still don't really give a fuck and buy the cheapest meat at the supermarket. Most of the people I know who 'proudly' eat meat cannot stand to watch a documentary about transportation of animals or slaughterhouses, or whatnot. You can argue with those people. | ||
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BlueBird.
United States3890 Posts
On September 21 2012 07:47 Phael wrote: I think the more apt comparison is that he's saying we shouldn't dash to put out our fireplaces to stop air pollution when there's a lot more that we can do to counter it. Not as an individual though, what am I going to do, go convince the government to stop pollution all by myself?\ Yes there is way more we can do as a nation, as a society, as a planet to stop the pollution of our planet, but there is basically no bigger step as an individual. I am not a vegan for environmental reasons, it's simply a bonus, but we shouldn't simply dismiss those that are, they are trying to make an effort. | ||
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ShatterZer0
United States1843 Posts
On September 21 2012 07:48 BlueBird. wrote: Only if you eat fake animal products often and go out to fancy vegan places. It's kind of hard to say that vegetables/fruits/grains which make up the core of the diet, are expensive. Now, I do feel like eating out is slightly more expensive than for non-vegans. For instance, I ate at my "Fast food" place, veggie cafe the other day, and it was 24 dollars for 2 people, I am pretty sure most fast-food places are considerably cheaper and have dollar menu and crap like that(though please if you care about animals at all, avoid McDonalds and their fellow chains, they refuse to upgrade their standards for cage sizes). So if you are eating out, it's going to be expensive. Are you KIDDING me? Go to the middle of a city and buy some fruits and vegies. It's WAY more cheap to buy processed junk than real food. Why the hell do you think the poor are fat and the wealthy thin? Because eating healthy is eating expensive... 800 calories from a 5 dollar cheeseburger or 10 bucks for a bag of greens with half the calories of the burger patty alone? | ||
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Kich
United States339 Posts
On September 21 2012 07:38 eyya wrote: Really? Differs heavily from my experience. But I got to admit, I'm not approached aggressively most of the time, but kind of defensively. When me being a vegan comes up somehow - most of the time because I decline food that is offered to me - people seem to automatically switch to a defensive state where they feel the need to explain themselves to me, although I didn't say anything. I never initiate conversations on veganism with anybody, because it's fucking exhausting and you get to answer the same questions over and over again. I really feel that the popular picture of vegans as aggressive, annoying preachers is always reinforced by omnivores that just dislike that veganism exists. That's verbatim what I said. You aren't approached with hostility, you're approached with a natural defensive instinct as if you're accusing them of something. I mean maybe you didn't realize this (I can't possibly understand how you wouldn't, but maybe..) it is incredibly, incredibly awkward and tense eating meat around someone who is vegan. You're doing something that is in direct conflict with an important, significant aspect of that persons life--if you're trying to get to know this person or even already know them but didn't know they were vegan this puts an immediate strain on the relationship from the meat eaters perspective because subconsciously you assume it bothers them. For instance, if I were to tell you (which is accurate) that my largest and most infuriating pet peeve is people who eat with their mouths open. If you were someone who naturally eats with their mouth open (which isn't uncommon) how would you feel knowing that what you're doing is very irritating to me? For a stranger? That feeling is minimal because you don't really care about that person, but for a good friend or a new friend it can be very awkward. The difference there being that I tell you upfront that it's something I don't like--but when you tell someone upfront that you're a vegan the assumption is that you disagree with eating meat and people who do it--whether you personally think that or not, that's the vibe it gives and that's peoples natural reaction. This is not positively reinforced by the way vegans are often portrayed on their own media, they promote themselves willingly as people who spout doom and gloom and cast people who eat meat in a negative light. I dated a vegan, I heard the radio talk shows and the podcasts, I've read the books, most of them are hilariously biased and self righteous. | ||
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Moloc
Ireland16 Posts
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VL-Orion
Indonesia78 Posts
The release of a movie that depicted Muhammad in unfavorable light has prompted many extremist Muslim into violence across the world and the attack of United States embassy in Libya killing 8 people including the US diplomat. And statistically someone just died a horrible death somewhere as I posted this. But lets not worry about all that , THE ANIMALS NEED OUR HELP!!! The likes of Ingrid Newkirk and her PETA goons has state in public that they are against any kind of animal exploitation this include pets, guide animals for the blind(yes for blind people), zoo, circus, and finally for medical experimentation(including those that can cure AIDS) or medical product which include insulin that is a necessity for many diabetic to continue living (PETA has diabetics to) But its okay when its a PETA use insulin because he/she needs it to save animals (its true! I have also kills some animals to preserve the ecosystem so its okay!! /sarcasm) They supported ex-felons that give lectures to high school on how to make basic petrol incendiary device (Animal Liberation Fronts) they(ALF) are responsible for wrecking numerous medical facilities to “free” test animals subject. I could go on but this should give an idea why people dislike the concept of vegan, yes PETA is an extreme example in this instance but they are the most outspoken animal rights organization that promote vegan lifestyle. The society is plagued with countless problems to name a few : wars, overpopulation, extreme poverty in some parts of the world ,BUT LETS WORRY ABOUT THE KITTENS INSTEAD. I don’t know what world these people live in that they can make the well being of an animal a priority but its certainly not one that I live in User was temp banned for this post. | ||
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Kich
United States339 Posts
On September 21 2012 07:58 VL-Orion wrote: China and Japan is at each others throat , the world economy is in shambles as European Union is scrambling to The release of a movie that depicted Muhammad in unfavorable light has prompted many extremist Muslim into violence across the world and the attack of United States embassy in Libya killing 8 people including the US diplomat. And statistically someone just died a horrible death somewhere as I posted this. But lets not worry about all that , THE ANIMALS NEED OUR HELP!!! The likes of Ingrid Newkirk and her PETA goons has state in public that they are against any kind of animal exploitation this include pets, guide animals for the blind(yes for blind people), zoo, circus, and finally for medical experimentation(including those that can cure AIDS) or medical product which include insulin that is a necessity for many diabetic to continue living (PETA has diabetics to) But its okay when its a PETA use insulin because he/she needs it to save animals (its true! I have also kills some animals to preserve the ecosystem so its okay!! /sarcasm) They supported ex-felons that give lectures to high school on how to make basic petrol incendiary device (Animal Liberation Fronts) they(ALF) are responsible for wrecking numerous medical facilities to “free” test animals subject. I could go on but this should give an idea why people dislike the concept of vegan, yes PETA is an extreme example in this instance but they are the most outspoken animal rights organization that promote vegan lifestyle. The society is plagued with countless problems to name a few : wars, overpopulation, extreme poverty in some parts of the world ,BUT LETS WORRY ABOUT THE KITTENS INSTEAD. I don’t know what world these people live in that they can make the well being of an animal a priority but its certainly not one that I live in For the record, if it came down to you or the kittens, kittens win every god damn time. | ||
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Chocolate
United States2350 Posts
On September 21 2012 07:58 VL-Orion wrote: China and Japan is at each others throat , the world economy is in shambles as European Union is scrambling to The release of a movie that depicted Muhammad in unfavorable light has prompted many extremist Muslim into violence across the world and the attack of United States embassy in Libya killing 8 people including the US diplomat. And statistically someone just died a horrible death somewhere as I posted this. But lets not worry about all that , THE ANIMALS NEED OUR HELP!!! The likes of Ingrid Newkirk and her PETA goons has state in public that they are against any kind of animal exploitation this include pets, guide animals for the blind(yes for blind people), zoo, circus, and finally for medical experimentation(including those that can cure AIDS) or medical product which include insulin that is a necessity for many diabetic to continue living (PETA has diabetics to) But its okay when its a PETA use insulin because he/she needs it to save animals (its true! I have also kills some animals to preserve the ecosystem so its okay!! /sarcasm) They supported ex-felons that give lectures to high school on how to make basic petrol incendiary device (Animal Liberation Fronts) they(ALF) are responsible for wrecking numerous medical facilities to “free” test animals subject. I could go on but this should give an idea why people dislike the concept of vegan, yes PETA is an extreme example in this instance but they are the most outspoken animal rights organization that promote vegan lifestyle. The society is plagued with countless problems to name a few : wars, overpopulation, extreme poverty in some parts of the world ,BUT LETS WORRY ABOUT THE KITTENS INSTEAD. I don’t know what world these people live in that they can make the well being of an animal a priority but its certainly not one that I live in Dismissing veganism because of PETA is as silly as dismissing Christianity because of the Westboro Baptist Church, medicine because of narcotics, and money because of greedy people. PETA and veganism are not mutually inclusive, and AS THE OP POSTED, there are plenty of reasons to be a vegetarian besides ethics and morality. Health, economy, ease of purchase, smaller carbon footprint, making food cheaper as a whole for everyone... there are more than just a few reasons to support veganism that aren't the animal rights front. | ||
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eyya
10 Posts
On September 21 2012 07:54 Kich wrote: + Show Spoiler + That's verbatim what I said. You aren't approached with hostility, you're approached with a natural defensive instinct as if you're accusing them of something. I mean maybe you didn't realize this (I can't possibly understand how you wouldn't, but maybe..) it is incredibly, incredibly awkward and tense eating meat around someone who is vegan. You're doing something that is in direct conflict with an important, significant aspect of that persons life--if you're trying to get to know this person or even already know them but didn't know they were vegan this puts an immediate strain on the relationship from the meat eaters perspective because subconsciously you assume it bothers them. For instance, if I were to tell you (which is accurate) that my largest and most infuriating pet peeve is people who eat with their mouths open. If you were someone who naturally eats with their mouth open (which isn't uncommon) how would you feel knowing that what you're doing is very irritating to me? For a stranger? That feeling is minimal because you don't really care about that person, but for a good friend or a new friend it can be very awkward. The difference there being that I tell you upfront that it's something I don't like--but when you tell someone upfront that you're a vegan the assumption is that you disagree with eating meat and people who do it--whether you personally think that or not, that's the vibe it gives and that's peoples natural reaction. This is not positively reinforced by the way vegans are often portrayed on their own media, they promote themselves willingly as people who spout doom and gloom and cast people who eat meat in a negative light. I dated a vegan, I heard the radio talk shows and the podcasts, I've read the books, most of them are hilariously biased and self righteous. Yes, I get that. Except that I didn't accuse them of anything and if they feel accused by my sheer existence I just conclude there might be more to it than wanting to please me. Would you feel the same awkwardness if a new friend of yours declined your invitation to a hotdog because their religion forbids them to eat pork? (not trying to make a point, just curious) I know people feel uncomfortable because they think I condemn them for what they do, but I still feel many of them wouldn't get so damn defensive if it weren't for their own suppressed doubts about the ethical dimensions of meat-consumption. edit: there is no such thing as 'vegans' as an entity, it's a heterogenous group of people with different reasons, different strategies and different levels of frustration. Frustration is a huge factor when you're vegan for ethical reasons and face ignorance on a daily basis. I can show you a fair number of people who defend killing animals in a hilariously biased and self righteous manner without much of an effort. | ||
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