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I feel that staunch Vegans and Vegetarians are severely misguided. In fact, I feel that most people that think they know anything beyond basic nutrition are severely misguided. The fact is, people still don't truly understand nutrition. For example, everyone knows that eating a meat-only diet is pretty dumb, right? You need vegetables and fruit and other nutrients that you just don't get eating only meat. It's common knowledge that if you only eat meat, you're going to have a bad time.
Well, that common knowledge isn't necessarily correct. Take a look at this documentation of two men that ate nothing but meat for a prolonged period of time:
http://inhumanexperiment.blogspot.com/2009/09/two-brave-men-who-ate-nothing-but-meat.html
The two men did not become even remotely unhealthy, which is something that most people would not have expected. Human beings have been eating meat for ages and ages and to suddenly suggest that we shouldn't be eating meat is completely bewildering. When anyone makes a claim as outrageous as that, it will take a gigantic amount of evidence before I am convinced they are right.
I really think that the previous poster was correct. I think that the markets are fully saturated and companies are trying to lure people into buying different things with all sorts of advertisements and funded studies to convince people to go vegan, or vegetarian, or gluten-free, or whatever the hell else is the trending thing of the year.
I really think people should be far more wary of subscribing to new ideas about nutrition, especially when this new idea is promoting you to buy some other stuff.
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On September 26 2012 06:37 Xanbatou wrote:I feel that staunch Vegans and Vegetarians are severely misguided. In fact, I feel that most people that think they know anything beyond basic nutrition are severely misguided. The fact is, people still don't truly understand nutrition. For example, everyone knows that eating a meat-only diet is pretty dumb, right? You need vegetables and fruit and other nutrients that you just don't get eating only meat. It's common knowledge that if you only eat meat, you're going to have a bad time. Well, that common knowledge isn't necessarily correct. Take a look at this documentation of two men that ate nothing but meat for a prolonged period of time: http://inhumanexperiment.blogspot.com/2009/09/two-brave-men-who-ate-nothing-but-meat.htmlThe two men did not become even remotely unhealthy, which is something that most people would not have expected. Human beings have been eating meat for ages and ages and to suddenly suggest that we shouldn't be eating meat is completely bewildering. When anyone makes a claim as outrageous as that, it will take a gigantic amount of evidence before I am convinced they are right. I really think that the previous poster was correct. I think that the markets are fully saturated and companies are trying to lure people into buying different things with all sorts of advertisements and funded studies to convince people to go vegan, or vegetarian, or gluten-free, or whatever the hell else is the trending thing of the year. I really think people should be far more wary of subscribing to new ideas about nutrition, especially when this new idea is promoting you to buy some other stuff.
But...but... Think of all the innocent (god I hate that word) animals that you are mercilessly slaughtering!
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On September 26 2012 06:40 Dosey wrote:Show nested quote +On September 26 2012 06:37 Xanbatou wrote:I feel that staunch Vegans and Vegetarians are severely misguided. In fact, I feel that most people that think they know anything beyond basic nutrition are severely misguided. The fact is, people still don't truly understand nutrition. For example, everyone knows that eating a meat-only diet is pretty dumb, right? You need vegetables and fruit and other nutrients that you just don't get eating only meat. It's common knowledge that if you only eat meat, you're going to have a bad time. Well, that common knowledge isn't necessarily correct. Take a look at this documentation of two men that ate nothing but meat for a prolonged period of time: http://inhumanexperiment.blogspot.com/2009/09/two-brave-men-who-ate-nothing-but-meat.htmlThe two men did not become even remotely unhealthy, which is something that most people would not have expected. Human beings have been eating meat for ages and ages and to suddenly suggest that we shouldn't be eating meat is completely bewildering. When anyone makes a claim as outrageous as that, it will take a gigantic amount of evidence before I am convinced they are right. I really think that the previous poster was correct. I think that the markets are fully saturated and companies are trying to lure people into buying different things with all sorts of advertisements and funded studies to convince people to go vegan, or vegetarian, or gluten-free, or whatever the hell else is the trending thing of the year. I really think people should be far more wary of subscribing to new ideas about nutrition, especially when this new idea is promoting you to buy some other stuff. But...but... Think of all the innocent (god I hate that word) animals that you are mercilessly slaughtering!
Please don't derail an entire post with an argument completely irrelevant to the ones I presented. I realize you are being sarcastic, but TL is not a circlejerk you know.
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On September 26 2012 06:43 Xanbatou wrote:Show nested quote +On September 26 2012 06:40 Dosey wrote:On September 26 2012 06:37 Xanbatou wrote:I feel that staunch Vegans and Vegetarians are severely misguided. In fact, I feel that most people that think they know anything beyond basic nutrition are severely misguided. The fact is, people still don't truly understand nutrition. For example, everyone knows that eating a meat-only diet is pretty dumb, right? You need vegetables and fruit and other nutrients that you just don't get eating only meat. It's common knowledge that if you only eat meat, you're going to have a bad time. Well, that common knowledge isn't necessarily correct. Take a look at this documentation of two men that ate nothing but meat for a prolonged period of time: http://inhumanexperiment.blogspot.com/2009/09/two-brave-men-who-ate-nothing-but-meat.htmlThe two men did not become even remotely unhealthy, which is something that most people would not have expected. Human beings have been eating meat for ages and ages and to suddenly suggest that we shouldn't be eating meat is completely bewildering. When anyone makes a claim as outrageous as that, it will take a gigantic amount of evidence before I am convinced they are right. I really think that the previous poster was correct. I think that the markets are fully saturated and companies are trying to lure people into buying different things with all sorts of advertisements and funded studies to convince people to go vegan, or vegetarian, or gluten-free, or whatever the hell else is the trending thing of the year. I really think people should be far more wary of subscribing to new ideas about nutrition, especially when this new idea is promoting you to buy some other stuff. But...but... Think of all the innocent (god I hate that word) animals that you are mercilessly slaughtering! Please don't derail an entire post with an argument completely irrelevant to the ones I presented. I realize you are being sarcastic, but TL is not a circlejerk you know.
You clearly have not been paying attention to the thread, or any thread in General Discussion for that matter. Any time a point is brought up, the subject is completely changed and another argument is waged on that. It's the cycle of these discussions and nothing ever gets solved. My post was just a satirical remark on what would have eventually been brought up in response to your post.
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On September 24 2012 21:23 pyrogenetix wrote:
The problem is that most people are severely under eating vegetables, then jump onto a vegetarian/vegan diet and feel much better and then think it's some miracle. My friends almost all eat a starch and fat based diet while I eat a diet consisting of vegetables and protein and fruits. There is no problem in eating meat in moderation.
Veganism is a first world luxury. Getting omega 3 from flaxseed oil and whatever, getting protein from beans and glued together processed plant protein. If you think not eating animal products makes you a better person then so be it. The fact is that meat is under priced and I am going to eat meat because I like the taste and don't want to hunt online for plant protein. I may not be doing the environment a favour but whatever, it's not like every time you have sex you're trying to make a baby.
People saying eating meat is bad for your health? I don't buy it for one second. We've been hunting and eating meat for far too long. If it was that bad we would have died out already. The only reason we have considerably developed brains is because of a diet rich in cholesterol, protein and fat. We certainly did not live in caves and get our daily caloric needs from eating leaves and roots. However I do not approve of the burger, fries and hot dog diet most people are living on. Eat your leafy greens like spinach and cabbage, eat broccoli, cauliflower, lots of good starches like sweet potato, eat lots of different colours. Eat some mixed nuts, some seaweed as well. Eat fruits and berries. Eat lean meats and fatty fish. It's really not that hard.
Exactly, the argument that vegan is healthy is generally false. I've seen too many have diets of processed soy, low nutrient carb sources, and even a lot of processed sweet food. If you do Veganism for health do it right at least and eat nutrient dense foods as you mentioned. But, that is still not enough, many vegans lack Vitamin K2 especially the MK-4 form, and Vitamin B12. MK-4 is almost exclusively found in animal sources. While you can get MK-7 from vegan sources it is inefficient to convert it to MK-4.
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On September 26 2012 06:37 Xanbatou wrote:I feel that staunch Vegans and Vegetarians are severely misguided. In fact, I feel that most people that think they know anything beyond basic nutrition are severely misguided. The fact is, people still don't truly understand nutrition. For example, everyone knows that eating a meat-only diet is pretty dumb, right? You need vegetables and fruit and other nutrients that you just don't get eating only meat. It's common knowledge that if you only eat meat, you're going to have a bad time. Well, that common knowledge isn't necessarily correct. Take a look at this documentation of two men that ate nothing but meat for a prolonged period of time: http://inhumanexperiment.blogspot.com/2009/09/two-brave-men-who-ate-nothing-but-meat.htmlThe two men did not become even remotely unhealthy, which is something that most people would not have expected. Human beings have been eating meat for ages and ages and to suddenly suggest that we shouldn't be eating meat is completely bewildering. When anyone makes a claim as outrageous as that, it will take a gigantic amount of evidence before I am convinced they are right. I really think that the previous poster was correct. I think that the markets are fully saturated and companies are trying to lure people into buying different things with all sorts of advertisements and funded studies to convince people to go vegan, or vegetarian, or gluten-free, or whatever the hell else is the trending thing of the year. I really think people should be far more wary of subscribing to new ideas about nutrition, especially when this new idea is promoting you to buy some other stuff.
I've never taken the vegan/vegetarian standpoint seriously because of this post. Their arguments mostly seem to boil down to health and morals. The problem I have with the health side is that they criticize meat specifically for being unhealthy and tell you to look at all the fatties that eat McDonalds. The problem I have with this stance is I can show you very unhealthy diets that contain no meat, very unhealthy diets that contain meat, and I can also show you the other side of that spectrum. I use evolution for dietary choices. Humans have spent hundreds of thousands of years eating a diet before agriculture came along, and I would argue that this is the diet our body is best at digesting. It contains meat. As far as the moral side of it goes I find it to be a wash.
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What is "natural" and "unnatural" is very much not important in todays society and what moral choices we make. I'm a vegan and a quite militant one at that, but as soon as someone says "Veganism is so totally natural!" I rage. Just like I rage when someone says "Eating meat is so totally natural!" Both add nothing to the discussion and are completely empty statements. Fuck that.
i agree with this, otherwise we should all abandon the internet and all such things  everything about technology is as "unnatural" as you can get, culture is pretty much the opposite of "natural" and the list can go on.
I also can't fathom how anyone can say that veganism is bad for you "because you have to take pills to take in B12". People have to take pills for a lot of different reasons, if I have to take a pill to stay healthy while not slaughtering innocent animals then I fucking eat that pill. It's not the biggest investment ever and people eat a lot more "unnatural" things systematically than B12-pills.
whether or not the downsides of going vegan weigh up against the upsides have nothing to do with the diet being "unhealthy/bad for your health" (assuming that this is so, im not sure, i dont care about it much). If a diet means that you lack in vitamins or any other stuff that you need then its unhealthy, nothing else can be said about that (except to deny that it actually is unhealthy). whether or not that means anything to you is up to you. smoking is bad for you, even though it gives pleasure and people do many different things to enjoy themselves. that doesnt change that smoking is bad, but if you dont care about your health (or not that much that you'd give up smoking) then that argument doesnt mean anything to you.
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On September 26 2012 06:37 Xanbatou wrote:I feel that staunch Vegans and Vegetarians are severely misguided. In fact, I feel that most people that think they know anything beyond basic nutrition are severely misguided. The fact is, people still don't truly understand nutrition. For example, everyone knows that eating a meat-only diet is pretty dumb, right? You need vegetables and fruit and other nutrients that you just don't get eating only meat. It's common knowledge that if you only eat meat, you're going to have a bad time. Well, that common knowledge isn't necessarily correct. Take a look at this documentation of two men that ate nothing but meat for a prolonged period of time: http://inhumanexperiment.blogspot.com/2009/09/two-brave-men-who-ate-nothing-but-meat.htmlThe two men did not become even remotely unhealthy, which is something that most people would not have expected. Human beings have been eating meat for ages and ages and to suddenly suggest that we shouldn't be eating meat is completely bewildering. When anyone makes a claim as outrageous as that, it will take a gigantic amount of evidence before I am convinced they are right. I really think that the previous poster was correct. I think that the markets are fully saturated and companies are trying to lure people into buying different things with all sorts of advertisements and funded studies to convince people to go vegan, or vegetarian, or gluten-free, or whatever the hell else is the trending thing of the year. I really think people should be far more wary of subscribing to new ideas about nutrition, especially when this new idea is promoting you to buy some other stuff.
The "new market" argument make no sense to me. Eating only fruits and veg is much cheeper.
As far as having two guys eat nothing but meat... Well that really doesn't prove anything. Humans are Omnivorous we can survive anywhere on the herbivore-carnivore scale. Eating a balanced diet with various protein sources, small amounts of fat, and mostly long burning carbohydrates is, from what I understand, the undisputed best diet plan. Whether those protein sources are made up of plants or animals is really up to the user. I prefer to limit my animal sources, others prefer to eliminate animal sources entirely, and you like to only consume animal sources. We will all survive.
But, consuming only animal products is not a sustainable way for everyone to eat. It's not really possible to produce that much meat. And if we tried the animals raised for that meat would have to be live in horrendous conditions.
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I'm a vegetarian for 5 years now, because of enviromental concerns. I think we only eat meat because we're used to it.
I don't care about the health benefits. The ethics of eating animals don't concern me because my religion actively talks about how humans have the right to eat animals.
But since there isn't such thing as malnultriction caused by lack of meat, why not give it a try, if there are benefits for the environment? Because we crave meat. It's like a dietary addiction, like many people have with sugar.
Just getting rid of an addiction - and being able to eat meat whenever you want, instead of needing it to not feel hungry - is another reason why I'm glad I became a vegetarian.
But I don't think getting vegan anytime soon, tbh. A vegan diet is more expensive than a vegetarian one and I don't have the money. In the other hand, a vegetarian diet is less expensive than one that includes meat.
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On September 26 2012 07:01 nerak wrote:
I'm a vegetarian for 5 years now, because of enviromental concerns. I think we only eat meat because we're used to it.
I don't care about the health benefits. The ethics of eating animals don't concern me because my religion actively talks about how humans have the right to eat animals.
But since there isn't such thing as malnultriction caused by lack of meat, why not give it a try, if there are benefits for the environment? Because we crave meat. It's like a dietary addiction, like many people have with sugar.
Just getting rid of an addiction - and being able to eat meat whenever you want, instead of needing it to not feel hungry - is another reason why I'm glad I became a vegetarian.
But I don't think getting vegan anytime soon, tbh. A vegan diet is more expensive than a vegetarian one and I don't have the money. In the other hand, a vegetarian diet is less expensive than one that includes meat.
Be surprised if its cheaper than my meat diet...5 dollar foot longs at subway, 4$ for 2 mcdoubles and 2 mcchickens...10$ large pepperoni and bacon pizza (feeds me and my girlfriend).
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On September 26 2012 07:01 nerak wrote:
I'm a vegetarian for 5 years now, because of enviromental concerns. I think we only eat meat because we're used to it.
I don't care about the health benefits. The ethics of eating animals don't concern me because my religion actively talks about how humans have the right to eat animals.
But since there isn't such thing as malnultriction caused by lack of meat, why not give it a try, if there are benefits for the environment? Because we crave meat. It's like a dietary addiction, like many people have with sugar.
Just getting rid of an addiction - and being able to eat meat whenever you want, instead of needing it to not feel hungry - is another reason why I'm glad I became a vegetarian.
But I don't think getting vegan anytime soon, tbh. A vegan diet is more expensive than a vegetarian one and I don't have the money. In the other hand, a vegetarian diet is less expensive than one that includes meat.
Environmental concerns are a VERY good reason to argue for vegetarianism. Cattle consume fifty percent of all the fresh water on earth (!) and (approximately) all of the people on this earth who would starve in a year could be adequately fed if America - and only America, apparently - reduced its red meat intake by only ten percent. APPARENTLY. These figures, though only apparent, still startled me. And though I love red meat more than any other food (guilty as charged), this made me drastically reduce my consumption of it. I didn't obliterate it, I just stopped eating it two, three, four times a week...now I eat it maybe once every two weeks and I actually seem to be healthier for it too.
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On September 26 2012 07:39 tMomiji wrote:Show nested quote +On September 26 2012 07:01 nerak wrote:
I'm a vegetarian for 5 years now, because of enviromental concerns. I think we only eat meat because we're used to it.
I don't care about the health benefits. The ethics of eating animals don't concern me because my religion actively talks about how humans have the right to eat animals.
But since there isn't such thing as malnultriction caused by lack of meat, why not give it a try, if there are benefits for the environment? Because we crave meat. It's like a dietary addiction, like many people have with sugar.
Just getting rid of an addiction - and being able to eat meat whenever you want, instead of needing it to not feel hungry - is another reason why I'm glad I became a vegetarian.
But I don't think getting vegan anytime soon, tbh. A vegan diet is more expensive than a vegetarian one and I don't have the money. In the other hand, a vegetarian diet is less expensive than one that includes meat. Environmental concerns are a VERY good reason to argue for vegetarianism. Cattle consume fifty percent of all the fresh water on earth (!) and (approximately) all of the people on this earth who would starve in a year could be adequately fed if America - and only America, apparently - reduced its red meat intake by only ten percent. APPARENTLY. These figures, though only apparent, still startled me. And though I love red meat more than any other food (guilty as charged), this made me drastically reduce my consumption of it. I didn't obliterate it, I just stopped eating it two, three, four times a week...now I eat it maybe once every two weeks and I actually seem to be healthier for it too.
Um, could you please provide some links? I find it incredibly hard to believe some of the things you posted, especially considering there is already enough food on this earth to fully support everyone with a 2000+ calorie diet:
http://www.worldhunger.org/articles/Learn/world hunger facts 2002.htm#Does_the_world_produce_enough_food_to_feed_everyone
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On September 26 2012 07:01 BadgKat wrote:Show nested quote +On September 26 2012 06:37 Xanbatou wrote:I feel that staunch Vegans and Vegetarians are severely misguided. In fact, I feel that most people that think they know anything beyond basic nutrition are severely misguided. The fact is, people still don't truly understand nutrition. For example, everyone knows that eating a meat-only diet is pretty dumb, right? You need vegetables and fruit and other nutrients that you just don't get eating only meat. It's common knowledge that if you only eat meat, you're going to have a bad time. Well, that common knowledge isn't necessarily correct. Take a look at this documentation of two men that ate nothing but meat for a prolonged period of time: http://inhumanexperiment.blogspot.com/2009/09/two-brave-men-who-ate-nothing-but-meat.htmlThe two men did not become even remotely unhealthy, which is something that most people would not have expected. Human beings have been eating meat for ages and ages and to suddenly suggest that we shouldn't be eating meat is completely bewildering. When anyone makes a claim as outrageous as that, it will take a gigantic amount of evidence before I am convinced they are right. I really think that the previous poster was correct. I think that the markets are fully saturated and companies are trying to lure people into buying different things with all sorts of advertisements and funded studies to convince people to go vegan, or vegetarian, or gluten-free, or whatever the hell else is the trending thing of the year. I really think people should be far more wary of subscribing to new ideas about nutrition, especially when this new idea is promoting you to buy some other stuff. The "new market" argument make no sense to me. Eating only fruits and veg is much cheeper. As far as having two guys eat nothing but meat... Well that really doesn't prove anything. Humans are Omnivorous we can survive anywhere on the herbivore-carnivore scale. Eating a balanced diet with various protein sources, small amounts of fat, and mostly long burning carbohydrates is, from what I understand, the undisputed best diet plan. Whether those protein sources are made up of plants or animals is really up to the user. I prefer to limit my animal sources, others prefer to eliminate animal sources entirely, and you like to only consume animal sources. We will all survive. But, consuming only animal products is not a sustainable way for everyone to eat. It's not really possible to produce that much meat. And if we tried the animals raised for that meat would have to be live in horrendous conditions.
That's because you aren't thinking about it. The argument is that its too hard for newer companies to put a dent in the already existing, well established companies. So instead of trying to compete, they try to create a new market for a new type of consumer like vegans, for example. Then they fund advertisement to try and convince people to buy this new vegan stuff instead of whatever they were buying before from the existing power players in the market. Basically, instead of trying to compete with existing powerhouses selling certain products, they create a new market where they can become a powerhouse and try to get people to buy from them.
That being said, poor conditions for cattle is one pretty good reason for being vegan/vegetarian. However, I don't really care about that, so it doesn't matter to me.
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On September 26 2012 07:42 Xanbatou wrote:Show nested quote +On September 26 2012 07:39 tMomiji wrote:On September 26 2012 07:01 nerak wrote:
I'm a vegetarian for 5 years now, because of enviromental concerns. I think we only eat meat because we're used to it.
I don't care about the health benefits. The ethics of eating animals don't concern me because my religion actively talks about how humans have the right to eat animals.
But since there isn't such thing as malnultriction caused by lack of meat, why not give it a try, if there are benefits for the environment? Because we crave meat. It's like a dietary addiction, like many people have with sugar.
Just getting rid of an addiction - and being able to eat meat whenever you want, instead of needing it to not feel hungry - is another reason why I'm glad I became a vegetarian.
But I don't think getting vegan anytime soon, tbh. A vegan diet is more expensive than a vegetarian one and I don't have the money. In the other hand, a vegetarian diet is less expensive than one that includes meat. Environmental concerns are a VERY good reason to argue for vegetarianism. Cattle consume fifty percent of all the fresh water on earth (!) and (approximately) all of the people on this earth who would starve in a year could be adequately fed if America - and only America, apparently - reduced its red meat intake by only ten percent. APPARENTLY. These figures, though only apparent, still startled me. And though I love red meat more than any other food (guilty as charged), this made me drastically reduce my consumption of it. I didn't obliterate it, I just stopped eating it two, three, four times a week...now I eat it maybe once every two weeks and I actually seem to be healthier for it too. Um, could you please provide some links? I find it incredibly hard to believe some of the things you posted, especially considering there is already enough food on this earth to fully support everyone with a 2000+ calorie diet: http://www.worldhunger.org/articles/Learn/world hunger facts 2002.htm#Does_the_world_produce_enough_food_to_feed_everyone
I said apparently. That means I don't -know- for sure it's just what I -heard-. If it's incorrect please feel free to correct me. The point was more that hearing it spurred me to be a little healthier...and this farming isn't good for the environment any way you spin it.
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On September 26 2012 07:01 nerak wrote:
I'm a vegetarian for 5 years now, because of enviromental concerns. I think we only eat meat because we're used to it.
I don't care about the health benefits. The ethics of eating animals don't concern me because my religion actively talks about how humans have the right to eat animals.
But since there isn't such thing as malnultriction caused by lack of meat, why not give it a try, if there are benefits for the environment? Because we crave meat. It's like a dietary addiction, like many people have with sugar.
Just getting rid of an addiction - and being able to eat meat whenever you want, instead of needing it to not feel hungry - is another reason why I'm glad I became a vegetarian.
But I don't think getting vegan anytime soon, tbh. A vegan diet is more expensive than a vegetarian one and I don't have the money. In the other hand, a vegetarian diet is less expensive than one that includes meat.
actually u can get malnutrition being just a vegetarian. you have to select and supplement your diet quite well to get all the essential amino acids and proteins that you'd normally get from meat. And no its not an addiction, the human race is designed (if you believe in God or whatever) or evolved through millions of years to eat and digest meat. We are omnivores, that's that.
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how is the title to this "veganism: a discussion" allowed ?
to open a 'discussion' you need to present arguments both for and against whatever the issue is that you want to open for debate
the op only offers the negatives to meat consumption, and nothing specifically on veganism, or on vegetal alternatives to covering the nutritional needs that animal products offer; moreso, the topic seems to be about animal products, but the proposition of the end of the op is to discuss meat consumption, which is at best loose talk on vegetarianism, not veganism
so, can we have a different title and more coherent op so we can discuss animal treatment, vegetal alternatives to animal products, and meat consumption in different topics of their own since they're all complex topics in their own right?
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I'm a vegan and while part of me almost always wants to talk about veganism (or vegetarianism) - a fairly broad topic - I usually decide not to. My understanding of our species is that almost everyone is effectively* incapable of prioritizing much of anything over their own self-convenience. Whether it's ethics, health, wastefulness or whatever - it doesn't really matter. It is whatever to people. What's real to people is what they want to be real which is whatever supports their current contentment. Of course, I gave the thread a try, but, of course, the thread is littered with people who have nothing more to contribute to the conversation than their own sealed mind trying to justify or validate itself in any way possible. I suppose I'm just bitching, but it is construable that someone out there may read this and realize that that is really essentially all they are doing - and perhaps they find that mode of existence to be undesirable for themselves? Wishful thinking.
Good luck to the people who are still willing to try to engage in intellectually honest discourse with people who by and large just don't have it in them to meet you on that level of simply being honest and putting in a genuine effort to consider the matter from any sort of angle that isn't already blatantly conjured up to justify stuff :X I mean that - I appreciate that you are making the effort. I prefer to let others have their own explicit interest in the matter first. Otherwise you're just asking someone if they want to explore the possibility of being a morally reprehensible or nutritionally ignorant person. Their answer is no. These matters are actually quite simply sorted through by everyone who approaches them with a commitment to being informed and honest about these things. Anytime you have to essentially babysit someone through making every single step toward the eventual goal of a comprehensive understanding, it's pretty clear that they give two shits about actually reaching that goal. And that's about what goes on with this stuff 
It's kinda like when newbs (even your friends!) rage and you tell them how shit really is and they don't want to hear it because it means they have to admit that they actually did anything wrong, so they never actually change. It's actually exactly like that. A good example of how abysmal people are at wanting to, let alone being able to engage in the basic vulnerability required to admit to their mistakes. For all the cliche contexts or 'logics' that people go through in their discourses on veganism - It remains my opinion, after nearly a decade of regularly experiencing veg talks of all sorts, that this is the real point of failure for this matter - and oh so many others.
TL;DR People are newbs.
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I think I am going to start encouraging people to be vegans now so there will be more bacon for me.
Global bacon shortage "unavoidable," group says
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(CBS News) BLTs next year might have to forego the B, according to a British trade group.
Britain's National Pig Association, "the voice of the British pig industry," warned recently that a global shortage of bacon and pork "is now unavoidable" because of shrinking herds.
The trade group reported Thursday that annual pig production for Europe's main pig producers fell across the board between 2011 and 2012, a trend that "is being mirrored around the world." The group tied the decline to increased feed costs, an effect of poor harvests for corn and soybeans.
Even though the pig association issued its dire prediction as part of a campaign to get British supermarkets to pay pig farmers more for their products, the possibility of a pork shortage received plenty of coverage in American news outlets.
But the projected decline isn't news to the U.S. Department of Agriculture. In its monthly outlook report (PDF) from August, the department linked a reduction next year in the United States to this year's drought in the Midwest. The government expects corn and soybean meal prices to go up and hog producers to cut production in an attempt to control losses in their operating costs.
Considering those factors, the USDA forecasted next year's pork production at 23 billion pounds, a decrease of about 1.3 percent from this year's estimated total. That breaks down to Americans consuming slightly more than 45 pounds of pork per capita in 2013, a reduction of more than 1 percent from this year's estimates.
The decline in production could be worse in Europe. On Wednesday, British Pig Executive Mick Sloyan told European retailers that pork losses could be as high 10 percent in the latter half of 2013, which could double pork prices, according to the U.K. pig association.
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Hi, quick questions, I know that things are not white of black, I would just like explanations and sources to answer my questions 
- Is too much fruits bad ? Because of sugar ?
- From my internet research blender is not too good because it causes nutriments to die due to oxidation.. true ?
- How to balance raw food and cooked food ? I saw too many videos of fanatics and raw gurus that sell many products on their websites and I don't fucking trust them at all ...
- Anyone knows about Brian Clement ?? What's your personal opinion about what he says.. and his work ?
- Where do you get your proteins from ? seeds, legume and nuts ?
- Any reliable websites/youtube channel/book that I could learn from ? I mean it seems that when it comes to vegan, people just make video based on their thoughts and beliefs, not from actually proven facts... That's a bit scary
- Do you eat soja products and processed food ?
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On May 31 2013 05:27 E.L.V.I.S wrote:Hi, quick questions, I know that things are not white of black, I would just like explanations and sources to answer my questions - Is too much fruits bad ? Because of sugar ? - From my internet research blender is not too good because it causes nutriments to die due to oxidation.. true ?
I'll answer these two since they're simple.
You cannot eat too much fruit. What you want to avoid is excessive amounts of fruit juice. Fruit juice has a ton of sugar without much of the fiber and nutrients you get from the fruit itself.
Don't worry about using a blender. It theoretically can increase oxidation rates, but the change would be so miniscule you'd never notice outside of a laboratory. People on the internet have all kinds of strange ideas about nutrition. I once saw a website that claimed ordinary table salt is poisonous. Not simply bad for your health, actually poisonous.
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EPT
