EPTShootings in the US - Page 3
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ref4
2933 Posts
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m4inbrain
1505 Posts
Since I am an ignorant American, enlighten me on gun laws in Norway again please? is just 1-5 people dead just 1-5 people ignorant American Youre an ignorant alright, but you dont have to be american to be one. Edit: also your "argument" is stupid, because both weapons he used were registered on his name. Legal. | ||
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Luzbeda
United States53 Posts
Guns make you feel powerful. Americans love guns. If guns weren't being used to kill people they wouldn't be powerful and Americans wouldn't be interested. Some people need to die so that we as Americans can feel that surge of power when we stroke our guns and dream of playing vigilante, or revenge, or whatever. Shootings are necessary collateral damage for the psychology of gun owners. | ||
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RoosterSamurai
Japan2108 Posts
On August 28 2012 04:52 Luzbeda wrote: Americans like to feel powerful. Guns make you feel powerful. Americans love guns. If guns weren't being used to kill people they wouldn't be powerful and Americans wouldn't be interested. Some people need to die so that we as Americans can feel that surge of power when we stroke our guns and dream of playing vigilante, or revenge, or whatever. Shootings are necessary collateral damage for the psychology of gun owners. What? | ||
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DeepElemBlues
United States5079 Posts
On August 28 2012 04:52 Luzbeda wrote: Americans like to feel powerful. Guns make you feel powerful. Americans love guns. If guns weren't being used to kill people they wouldn't be powerful and Americans wouldn't be interested. Some people need to die so that we as Americans can feel that surge of power when we stroke our guns and dream of playing vigilante, or revenge, or whatever. Shootings are necessary collateral damage for the psychology of gun owners. Ignorant pop psychology (that coincidentally places the pop psychologist on a superior level to the unwashed masses, what a surprise) is good for when you don't know history and don't want to think. | ||
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Romantic
United States1844 Posts
On August 28 2012 04:52 m4inbrain wrote: Youre an ignorant alright, but you dont have to be american to be one. Edit: also your "argument" is stupid, because both weapons he used were registered on his name. Legal. That is the point. Crazy guy got guns despire strict gun laws. In general I refuse to talk about guns on the premise that we are going to talk about all the Bad Things guns do and not acknowledge all of the foiled crimes etc. | ||
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heroyi
United States1064 Posts
i am not the most prideful american citizen but seriously... can we just rename this thread 'bash on america' thread. | ||
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Chargelot
2275 Posts
On August 28 2012 04:52 Luzbeda wrote: Americans like to feel powerful. Guns make you feel powerful. Americans love guns. If guns weren't being used to kill people they wouldn't be powerful and Americans wouldn't be interested. Some people need to die so that we as Americans can feel that surge of power when we stroke our guns and dream of playing vigilante, or revenge, or whatever. Shootings are necessary collateral damage for the psychology of gun owners. Psychological projection or projection bias is a psychological defense mechanism where a person subconsciously denies his or her own attributes, thoughts, and emotions, which are then ascribed to the outside world, usually to other people. No. | ||
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Louis8k8
Canada285 Posts
It's like billionaires, there's billionaires today, there weren't any a thousand years ago, things change. If the overwhelming majority are extremely against this kind of activity, then we all have to act in educating the next generation to not consider it. I think liberal thinking is being taught too much in a single dimension. Too much of: 'do what you feel is right', 'be yourself', 'your opinion matters' or 'if you have something you disagree with, stand up against it' - bullshit being taught to young people. Not that it's wrong to say such a thing, but people are too focused on this kind of shallow jargon that they don't pass on the rest of picture of society and every facet of decision making. The standards of parents are too low compared to the previous generation. There's no genuine discouragement for a lot of things people do and people think there's no end to what they can do and no one can stop them. By all means, if the entire society thinks it's fine to have teenagers shoot eachother to death on a daily basis, then that's going to be the way society is, and everyone will live in like that's just how life is. If you find yourself disapproving of how society is changing, then your ideology is no longer the overwhelming majority (maybe still a majority, i mean i'm sure the majority don't want teens shooting eachother at school as a common thing). You alone can't control the way society shift, but you can at least make your own kids try to influence society the way you want them to live in. | ||
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m4inbrain
1505 Posts
On August 28 2012 05:04 Romantic wrote: That is the point. Crazy guy got guns despire strict gun laws. In general I refuse to talk about guns on the premise that we are going to talk about all the Bad Things guns do and not acknowledge all of the foiled crimes etc. Ahm, thats the point. It should not be that easy to get a gun. He was a sport-shooter (or whatever its called) - an argument coming mostly from americans to justify guns. If you want to "sport-shoot", go to a range, where your gun is stored, shoot, and drive home again. That would stop most shootings in europe (because most of them happen because a familymember or the lunatic himself was in a "Schützenverein", a sportshooting-club). Thats not strict gun laws, as we in germany actually had to admit. Nowadays you need to prove that your gun is stored in a "safe", and you have to show it to an inspector or policeman if he wants to check that. Edit: but just the fact that kids and teens over here grow up with the knowledge that guns are bad (and dont get used to them by seeing them every day in their parents hands, or visit shooting ranges with daddy, helps alot. A gun over here is a totally different thing to a kid than in america. Its "normal" to have a gun, and it should not be. You should not get used to guns while growing up. | ||
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TheFrankOne
United States667 Posts
On August 28 2012 05:18 m4inbrain wrote: Ahm, thats the point. It should not be that easy to get a gun. He was a sport-shooter (or whatever its called) - an argument coming mostly from americans to justify guns. If you want to "sport-shoot", go to a range, where your gun is stored, shoot, and drive home again. That would stop most shootings in europe (because most of them happen because a familymember or the lunatic himself was in a "Schützenverein", a sportshooting-club). Thats not strict gun laws, as we in germany actually had to admit. Nowadays you need to prove that your gun is stored in a "safe", and you have to show it to an inspector or policeman if he wants to check that. Also he was only able to obtain 30-round magazines from American dealers online. So... American gun laws are partially to blame for that whole business.  | ||
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Macabre
United States1262 Posts
Lot's of shootings in chicago that weren't covered but the MSM as well, around the same time as the NYC shooting. | ||
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RageBot
Israel1530 Posts
On August 28 2012 03:55 Xiron wrote: Yea, sadly that's the foundation of all those shootings. If noone had weapons, those shootings wouldn't happen (as much). Those crazy people are being encouraged by the media, get a weapon and go at it. Yeah, because laws always help against outlaws, don't them? | ||
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theonlyepi
United States25 Posts
On August 28 2012 03:51 Xiron wrote: Fail gun laws that grant easy access to weapons. you think he went through the proper legal methods to obtaining his weapon? gun laws have nothing to do with it, you can buy a gun just by knowing the right people laws or not. if guns didnt exist, it would have been a machete or something and then what, ban knives? your logic is not only flawed, but a blight on our society although it is well intended. weapons need to be used in order to take lives, removing the weapons isn't going to stop people from wanting to take lives this isn't rocket science. what if he took this kids life by crashing his car into him? what if he straight up john rambo style broke his neck? what if he built an elaborate booby trap similar to home alone movies? banning guns will make america a vulnerable country in a time of global unrest and violence. "if you were to invade americas shores, there'd be a gun behind every blade of grass", now i'm not patriotic, but i definitely take comfort in knowing that there are plenty of concealed carrying law abiding citizens who know how to use their weapon. | ||
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Jonoman92
United States9101 Posts
"It's horrible," said Roman. "I mean, you would think the school would have better security than this, maybe metal detectors." Perhaps this is insensitive of me, but this quote embodies what is plaguing the US right now (yes, it's just one dumb kid, but I think similar sentiment frequently occurs when tragedies happen). If one person wants to kill another, they will be able to do so. Deal with it. I think having metal detectors for airplanes might be unnecessary, but having them for high schools is ridiculous. Sometimes bad/crazy people do bad things, and people die. This is part of life, but I feel it's dumb to expect society to be able to protect us from everything since it's impractical and impossible. I really don't see what there is to discuss here. There's nothing to talk about without knowing the detailed background behind the relationship behind the victim/shooter. And we seriously, don't need YET ANOTHER excuse for a gun debate topic which people do regardless of the fact that it's not the place. edit: oh 7k | ||
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BlueBird.
United States3889 Posts
On August 28 2012 05:18 m4inbrain wrote: Ahm, thats the point. It should not be that easy to get a gun. He was a sport-shooter (or whatever its called) - an argument coming mostly from americans to justify guns. If you want to "sport-shoot", go to a range, where your gun is stored, shoot, and drive home again. That would stop most shootings in europe (because most of them happen because a familymember or the lunatic himself was in a "Schützenverein", a sportshooting-club). Thats not strict gun laws, as we in germany actually had to admit. Nowadays you need to prove that your gun is stored in a "safe", and you have to show it to an inspector or policeman if he wants to check that. Edit: but just the fact that kids and teens over here grow up with the knowledge that guns are bad (and dont get used to them by seeing them every day in their parents hands, or visit shooting ranges with daddy, helps alot. A gun over here is a totally different thing to a kid than in america. Its "normal" to have a gun, and it should not be. You should not get used to guns while growing up. For me personally, as a gun owner(no guns in my house though), I kind of feel like your just assuming stuff about Americans here. I can't say your assumptions are wrong based on my personal experience alone, but I grew up and was taken shooting both target shooting, skeet and trap shooting with my grandfather. I was not taught at any point that guns are fun toys, I was taught to respect guns, and that if handled properly there is nothing too fear from them. I personally would be fine if guns were supposed to be kept at ranges, if it was harder to get guns, and if you were traveling between ranges etc, they should not also have ammo for them in the vehicle. Basically nobody has proven to me that guns are good for self defense, my grandfather and dad kept bats by the bed for self defense even though they own guns. Why, because it's silly to think they had enough training or experience too use a gun vs a criminal in a real situation(my grandfather had some idpa experience not sure on full details), and guns were kept in the safe, not next to the bed. It scares me people do or want to carry concealed or not concealed weapons with the intent of self defense, Trained police officers hit 9 people with ricochet and shrapnel in NY can't imagine what civilians with firearms in a crowd would do, imagine you hear gun shots in a crowd, everyone draws weapons, they would all shoot each other.. | ||
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Dranak
United States464 Posts
On August 28 2012 05:18 m4inbrain wrote: Ahm, thats the point. It should not be that easy to get a gun. He was a sport-shooter (or whatever its called) - an argument coming mostly from americans to justify guns. If you want to "sport-shoot", go to a range, where your gun is stored, shoot, and drive home again. That would stop most shootings in europe (because most of them happen because a familymember or the lunatic himself was in a "Schützenverein", a sportshooting-club). Thats not strict gun laws, as we in germany actually had to admit. Nowadays you need to prove that your gun is stored in a "safe", and you have to show it to an inspector or policeman if he wants to check that. Edit: but just the fact that kids and teens over here grow up with the knowledge that guns are bad (and dont get used to them by seeing them every day in their parents hands, or visit shooting ranges with daddy, helps alot. A gun over here is a totally different thing to a kid than in america. Its "normal" to have a gun, and it should not be. You should not get used to guns while growing up. The idea of having to keep your guns locked up at a range wouldn't be viable in most of the United States because people would still need to remove their guns from the range in order to go hunting, which is a very common activity in a large percentage of the country. There's nothing inherently wrong with growing up around guns. I did, and I was also trained from a young age how to safely handle firearms with a no-tolerance policy from my parents for any sort of inappropriate behavior/handling. My children will likewise grow up around guns and be taught how to handle them. | ||
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J_Slim
United States199 Posts
At this point the issue has gone way farther than gun control could fix. Gun technology has advanced a long way from when the constitution was written. A musket can't take out a crowd of people in seconds. An assault riffle can, easily. Even today's handguns can cause mass devastation in mere moments. Muskets were used for more than just protection: they were also used to provide food for hunters and their family. The *only* thing an assault riffle is designed to kill is a person. | ||
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RageBot
Israel1530 Posts
The US just have a lot more people compared to the overall population. Unless stuff like the Batman shooter don't count in countings like this. | ||
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Luzbeda
United States53 Posts
For me personally, as a gun owner(no guns in my house though), I kind of feel like your just assuming stuff about Americans here. I can't say your assumptions are wrong based on my personal experience alone, but I grew up and was taken shooting both target shooting, skeet and trap shooting with my grandfather. I was not taught at any point that guns are fun toys, I was taught to respect guns, and that if handled properly there is nothing too fear from them. I personally would be fine if guns were supposed to be kept at ranges, if it was harder to get guns, and if you were traveling between ranges etc, they should not also have ammo for them in the vehicle. Basically nobody has proven to me that guns are good for self defense, my grandfather and dad kept bats by the bed for self defense even though they own guns. Why, because it's silly to think they had enough training or experience too use a gun vs a criminal in a real situation(my grandfather had some idpa experience not sure on full details), and guns were kept in the safe, not next to the bed. It scares me people do or want to carry concealed or not concealed weapons with the intent of self defense, Trained police officers hit 9 people with ricochet and shrapnel in NY can't imagine what civilians with firearms in a crowd would do, imagine you hear gun shots in a crowd, everyone draws weapons, they would all shoot each other.. Education is what separates your experience with firearms from others'. I also own a gun, a side-by-side shotgun my father gave me when I was learning to hunt as a child. It is still at my parent's house in a safe, unused for the past 20 or so years because I didn't actually like hunting. Just not my idea of fun. I hunted with my dad when I was young. I shot small animals and then skinned and ate them (creepy, right?). I didn't enjoy it, dead things are kind of gross, and once you have actually seen the power of a gun on a living creature you are far less likely to misuse it, or use it at all (my opinion). If everybody was taught responsible use of a gun I wouldn't have such an issue with the general public having such easy access to them, especially handguns which aren't even legal to hunt with. It might shock you (sarcasm) that most people have not had appropriate firearms training and are not buying guns for responsible reasons during times of lucidity and reponsibility. When I read pages like this I am scared by how few people actually speak from experience. I agree with your post almost entirely, there is an intelligent middle ground between Red Dead Redemption and Hello Kitty Island Adventure that is not impossible to achieve. | ||
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