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On August 24 2012 01:32 DoubleReed wrote:Show nested quote +On August 24 2012 01:29 Djzapz wrote:On August 24 2012 01:17 KwarK wrote:On August 24 2012 01:14 Djzapz wrote:On August 24 2012 01:10 KwarK wrote:On August 24 2012 01:07 Djzapz wrote:On August 24 2012 00:52 KwarK wrote:On August 24 2012 00:49 Djzapz wrote:On August 24 2012 00:45 Grumbels wrote:On August 24 2012 00:30 NeMeSiS3 wrote:
[quote]
Exactly so it's grey, how do you handle grey areas? One the woman should learn to understand her rights and be more entitled to herself, I can't understand how a man can say "no" and be begged and begged (which happens, women are notorious for begging for sex when their partner or non-partner aren't interested) but a man asks once or twice and he comes off as the rapist if she agrees and regrets the next day... Hell I've had regret sex, I: think it's a very natural thing. You get drunk, you can't tell what's what and you have sex with a girl who isn't attractive in the personality or physicality sense but she came on to you and you just kinda fell into it, would that be rape because I never said yes or no? .
I've never heard of 'women begging an uninterested partner for sex' being something that happens frequently and that they are notorious for. Part of rape culture is the lingering threat of violence that underpins a lot of negotiating for sex. If your potential partner ever feels even slightly threatened or coerced then it might not be technically rape, but you're still taking advantage of rape culture and taking advantage of her. If you are very clear about the lack of coercion then in many circumstances it might be okay to ask a few follow-up questions as part of the conversation; since after all I don't see how asking two times is automatically more coercive than asking one time, when even asking once can already be coercive. However, you need to be very careful and it's probably a bad idea. Women doing the same to men is different because the threat of violence is gone, but of course men can still be coerced in different ways and it's not acceptable if they would do something like that. I don't think it's wise to put up with something like it. It's still different than the same scenario with reverse gender though, simply because of the different context of rape culture. Isn't "rape culture" a bullshit tagline that sex-negative feminists use to blur the line between consensual sex and rape to get you to post ridiculous shit like "you're using the rape culture to get consensual-ish sex"? No, it's not. It's a real and oppressive thing and acknowledging it would go a long way to make sex more consensual and enjoyable for everyone. Nothing about it is sex negative, sex where the women isn't consenting purely to try and find the safest and least confrontational way out of the situation is actually better than when she is. I think you're wrong. "Rape culture" is a disgusting and ridiculous name given to a social problem which is made out to be cultural, when reality it is confined to some people and organizations, and not widespread. If I look over the wiki entry, it talks about a culture in which rape is normalized, which is not the case in the Western world, and to say that it is is just alarmist BS. A lot of rapes occur, that doesn't make it part of the culture. A lot of people make excuses and even condone it, but it's still not part of the culture. "Rape culture" is a popular term used because it's striking and surprising and seems powerful. It's essentially a term used to make an argument, and to convince people that the problem is real. And while it is real that some, or even a LOT of people are part of this "Rape apologists" bunch, it's not an excuse for making cute little titles for it. Take a look at this link, it's what I would have linked earlier if I'd found it at the time. It's a good list of what the issues regarding rape culture are. http://www.shakesville.com/2009/10/rape-culture-101.htmlIt is my belief that rape culture exists in the western world. Rape culture only exists in the western world if you're willing to scrap the word culture and use your own definition for it. "A rape culture condones physical and emotional terrorism against women as the norm." How does that not seem like BS to everyone here? Physical and emotional "terrorism"? That's insulting. You should be insulted. Any man I know would be disgusted to hear that this is what some women think of us. It's not my norm, and it's not the norm of ANYONE I respect. So you've never heard the phrase "boys will be boys" spoken by apologists regarding why a woman should accept abuse as the norm? So now a tagline that I've actually never heard is a guideline to life? Do I need to take the "rape culture" points one by one? I'll do a few, and for every point, ask yourself if this applies to our SOCIETY or if it only applies to a few people. -Rape culture is encouraging male sexual aggression. > Not social, confined to bad individuals -Rape culture is regarding violence as sexy and sexuality as violent > Nope -Rape culture is treating rape as a compliment, as the unbridled passion stirred in a healthy man by a beautiful woman > Absurd -Rape culture is treating straight sexuality as the norm. > Problem indeed - why does it have anything to do with rape? -Rape culture is lumping queer sexuality into nonconsensual sexual practices like pedophilia and bestiality > Nothing to do with rape -Rape culture is privileging heterosexuality > Nothing to do with rape -Rape culture is rape being used as a weapon, a tool of war and genocide and oppression. > Absurd -Rape culture is 1 in 33 men being sexually assaulted in their lifetimes. > Not cultural -Rape culture is encouraging men to use the language of rape to establish dominance over one another > Not convincing -Rape culture is making rape a ubiquitous part of male-exclusive bonding. > That would suck for me if it were true! -Rape culture is ignoring the cavernous need for men's prison reform > Fair enough -Rape culture is 1 in 6 women being sexually assaulted in their lifetimes. > Again, real problem but not cultural -Rape culture is victim-blaming. > Confined to individuals -Rape culture is a judge blaming a child for her own rape. > A judge -Rape culture is a minister blaming his child victims. > A minister ... etc. Maybe I'm digging in the semantics and I shouldn't, but this absurd label is covering the real problem that is rape, by disguising it as a standard - which it isn't. For the love of god, click on my damn link: http://yesmeansyesblog.wordpress.com/2012/06/12/radicalizing-consent-towards-implementing-an-affirmative-consent-model-in-new-yorks-rape-law/This describes in detail how rape culture is affecting our law system in several ways and how we can try to change it. Stop acting as if this isn't an issue. It's a serious thing, and it does exist in American society.
I read guy's link and it turned out the be an incoherent ramble, is yours better? Because by the time I'll be done reading your blog that's below a banner that says "A world without rape", I'll have 5 pages to catch up on.
Having read a few paragraphs, I'm not convinced.
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On August 24 2012 01:29 ComaDose wrote:Show nested quote +On August 24 2012 01:26 Tao367 wrote:On August 24 2012 01:17 ComaDose wrote:On August 24 2012 00:53 Tao367 wrote:On August 24 2012 00:50 KwarK wrote:On August 24 2012 00:48 Tao367 wrote:On August 24 2012 00:43 KwarK wrote:On August 24 2012 00:39 NeMeSiS3 wrote:On August 24 2012 00:36 KwarK wrote:On August 24 2012 00:30 NeMeSiS3 wrote:
[quote]
Exactly so it's grey, how do you handle grey areas? One the woman should learn to understand her rights and be more entitled to herself, I can't understand how a man can say "no" and be begged and begged (which happens, women are notorious for begging for sex when their partner or non-partner aren't interested) but a man asks once or twice and he comes off as the rapist if she agrees and regrets the next day... Hell I've had regret sex, I: think it's a very natural thing. You get drunk, you can't tell what's what and you have sex with a girl who isn't attractive in the personality or physicality sense but she came on to you and you just kinda fell into it, would that be rape because I never said yes or no? .
I'm really confused by your question. You concede there may be grey areas in which their consent is granted based upon intimidation, even if the guy didn't intend to coerce the victim but you don't know how to handle them? Avoid the grey area, exactly as Sunset said. "There's this situation where I may accidentally rape someone if I do this thing, how do I handle it?" "Don't do that thing" Jeez I understand that haha, I as more questioning why one is acceptable and one is not, why can a man be placed into an awkward position where he repeatedly gets asked for sex while a women has more liberty in that subject. Is it because of the rarity of men getting raped? But with respect to that, are men really getting "regret sex" more than women? I mean people just don't think of it as rape because it was the guy and men are stereotypically sex hungry fiends that think of sex 34 times a day while women only do it 19 times a day on average? I suppose I'm just curious as to why the grey area only reflects onto men. In theory it doesn't, you could hypothetically raise a man with all the propaganda and sexuality that we project onto girls from an early age and then put them in an environment in which they're raised to feel that their purpose is to be objectified by women and that they don't have the right to their own body. Then tell them that they're wrong for feeling that they can say no and it's their fault anyway and that they're asking for it. Then get them drunk and put them in a strange environment with a physically intimidating woman who is aggressively pressuring them for sex. In that situation, sure, it reflects on women too. Until that happens though, welcome to rape culture. http://yesmeansyesblog.wordpress.com/2009/07/23/this-is-what-rape-culture-looks-like/ That article you quoted there is extremely biased. When people in power refuse to take women’s rape charges seriously, it means there are no consequences for rapists, which makes them more free to rape. 95% of all female rape cases are taken seriously (at the very minimum). You always hear about rape victims on chat shows etc, how they dealt with it and got the support they needed. Male rape victims are basically never taken seriously? When was the last time you heard about a male rape victim anywhere. Most male rape victims don't even report the rape, so they can't talk about female rape needing to be taken more seriously. Vast majority of female rape cases aren't even reported, same as male. People in power typically buy into the same "asking for it" myths that much of the rest of society, particularly older generations, buy into. There was a US congressman failing to take it seriously not so long ago (Todd Akin), I'm not sure how you can argue that people in power get it. It's still a much larger proportion of rapes that are reported though. All I'm saying is that in terms of being taken seriously, women have nothing to complain about compared to males. source please? cause I'm almost positive your making things up. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_statisticsfirst google result. did you try that? I am furious with you and disgusted with your ignorance I'm having difficulty deciding where to start. First I'm going to ask you if you are legitimately feeling oppressed as a male in our society. Do you understand the degree of privilege you are entitled to by your penis? Do you acknowledge that the fact that assuming your heteronormitive, born to the sex that matches the gender you choose to represent and strait gives you increadable advantages everyday and from everyone? Do you even know what that means? Second I'm going to ask you why you think all rape cases are taken seriously. Have you been raped? Have you reported your rape to the police? Do you know anyone who has? I have heard testimonies from many people who have been raped and reported it to the police. Do you know what the slut walk stands for? Listen to their speakers. People who have actually been through what your trying to talk about. Women who are raped are often asked. was it your boyfriend? were you in his appartment? were you dressed provocatively? were you drinking? and if you don't understand why all these questions are victim blaming and irrelivant then try to culture yourself before spewing ignorant stuff into this thread that makes me lose faith in society. - male-female rape is the most common rape by an order of hundreds - (1995), sexual violence, and rape in particular, is considered the most under-reported violent crime - new laws have recently been introduce to have females lead rape cases due to how many were not taken seriously. basically everything you said is wrong. and your wrong. and your view is damaging to women in society. the vast majority is not reported women have way more to complain about then men about rape not being taken seriously smarten up It appears I've somehow made you mad. At no point have I said men have more to lose from being raped or anything like that. I simply said, female to male rape is more common than you think, according to wiki (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_by_gender):
However, male victims of sexual abuse by females[23] often face social, political, and legal double standards.[24] While gender-neutral laws have combated the older perception that rape never occurs to men,[25] and other laws have eliminated the term altogether,[26] the double standards still remain.
That's all I've said.
The U.S. Bureau of Justice Statistics (1997) estimated that 91% of United States rape victims were female and 9% were male, with 99% of the offenders being male and 1% of the offenders being female.[1]
I have not denied the quoted fact. I have said however, that a larger proportion of women report being raped by a man than men report being raped by a woman. NO! YOU SAID: Show nested quote +It's still a much larger proportion of rapes that are reported though. All I'm saying is that in terms of being taken seriously, women have nothing to complain about compared to males. which has 2 points. both of which are wrong!
No. You may be misunderstanding me. I'm saying a larger % of female rape victims report their rape than the % of male rape victims.
According to the Stern Review, the victim is male in around 8% of all recorded rape cases. The unrecorded figure is thought to be far higher.
The proportion of men who go on to report sexual assault is extremely low and the number of victims greater than the government or media coverage would suggest.
The British Crime Survey 2001/2 reported that while 4.2% of women and 4.2% of men said they had been victims of domestic and/or sexual violence in the past year, only 19% of men went on to report it compared with 81% of women.
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On August 24 2012 00:49 Djzapz wrote:Show nested quote +On August 24 2012 00:45 Grumbels wrote:On August 24 2012 00:30 NeMeSiS3 wrote:On August 24 2012 00:28 KwarK wrote:On August 24 2012 00:24 NeMeSiS3 wrote:On August 24 2012 00:20 SunsetSC2 wrote:On August 24 2012 00:18 Crushinator wrote:On August 24 2012 00:01 SunsetSC2 wrote:On August 23 2012 23:59 KwarK wrote:On August 23 2012 23:57 SunsetSC2 wrote:
[quote]
You weren't being clear.
One no is always enough.
The two women in this thread are telling you one no means no, and you're all actually arguing we're wrong.
It's actually incredible. I don't think anyone is arguing that sex should continue following the no. In other news, now it's your MOTHERFUCKING BIRTHDAY, MATE! <33333 No, I don't think people are saying that. I just think the issue ought to be completely dropped after the first no because saying no once is extremely difficult in vulnerable situations. Oh please. I know my girlfriend well enough that I know when I can continue pursuing sex after she's said no the first time. Sometimes I will do it fairly agressively, and sometimes without success. She at times practically rapes me. We are both very secure with this, I don't know why this is a problem according to you. I'm not talking about people in relationships, for crying out loud. Actually that wasn't very clear and it could be misquoted that you were. Frankly, speaking outside the limits of a relationship, I can't help but see no issue in a man who has been getting signs (they're rather simple) to press the subject. I can see that if a girl really means no, it should be obvious but a lot of the time they're drunk and giggling which gives men very mixed signals, especially if she has been hanging on your arm all night. Generally speaking, and I'll stick to this as I've never been commited for rape charges but have had my fair share of 1 night stands and everything in between that asking a second time with a question such as "are you sure" or "not tonight?" etc is completely acceptable and totally in the women being asked hands to shut down again, you can't argue "well she said no the first time, but he asked again and she said yes... That's rape! No that is consent and unless there was any physical trauma or threatening action I can't help but see no issue. Please go on to explain. You can happily go "there was no threatening action" but you're a stranger to them and they may be in a strange environment. There's a fuckload of coercive rape culture shit that you simply don't know about because you're a man. I'm not saying that you were coercive or that you would ignore a "no" but you simply need to appear coercive for her decision to be influenced and you can't always tell how you are perceived. This is the grey area issue with pressuring with a stranger. Exactly so it's grey, how do you handle grey areas? One the woman should learn to understand her rights and be more entitled to herself, I can't understand how a man can say "no" and be begged and begged (which happens, women are notorious for begging for sex when their partner or non-partner aren't interested) but a man asks once or twice and he comes off as the rapist if she agrees and regrets the next day... Hell I've had regret sex, I: think it's a very natural thing. You get drunk, you can't tell what's what and you have sex with a girl who isn't attractive in the personality or physicality sense but she came on to you and you just kinda fell into it, would that be rape because I never said yes or no? . I've never heard of 'women begging an uninterested partner for sex' being something that happens frequently and that they are notorious for. Part of rape culture is the lingering threat of violence that underpins a lot of negotiating for sex. If your potential partner ever feels even slightly threatened or coerced then it might not be technically rape, but you're still taking advantage of rape culture and taking advantage of her. If you are very clear about the lack of coercion then in many circumstances it might be okay to ask a few follow-up questions as part of the conversation; since after all I don't see how asking two times is automatically more coercive than asking one time, when even asking once can already be coercive. However, you need to be very careful and it's probably a bad idea. Women doing the same to men is different because the threat of violence is gone, but of course men can still be coerced in different ways and it's not acceptable if they would do something like that. I don't think it's wise to put up with something like it. It's still different than the same scenario with reverse gender though, simply because of the different context of rape culture. Isn't "rape culture" a bullshit tagline that sex-negative feminists use to blur the line between consensual sex and rape to get you to post ridiculous shit like "you're using the rape culture to get consensual-ish sex"?
It's funny; that used to be my impression as well.
Then I read this thread. People exposuing your beliefs have convinced me that it's quite real.
Granted, I would call it "sexual entitlement culture", but the principle is the same: men ought to get sex, so women give it to them.
On August 24 2012 00:53 Tao367 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 24 2012 00:50 KwarK wrote:On August 24 2012 00:48 Tao367 wrote:On August 24 2012 00:43 KwarK wrote:On August 24 2012 00:39 NeMeSiS3 wrote:On August 24 2012 00:36 KwarK wrote:On August 24 2012 00:30 NeMeSiS3 wrote:On August 24 2012 00:28 KwarK wrote:On August 24 2012 00:24 NeMeSiS3 wrote:On August 24 2012 00:20 SunsetSC2 wrote:
[quote]
I'm not talking about people in relationships, for crying out loud. Actually that wasn't very clear and it could be misquoted that you were. Frankly, speaking outside the limits of a relationship, I can't help but see no issue in a man who has been getting signs (they're rather simple) to press the subject. I can see that if a girl really means no, it should be obvious but a lot of the time they're drunk and giggling which gives men very mixed signals, especially if she has been hanging on your arm all night. Generally speaking, and I'll stick to this as I've never been commited for rape charges but have had my fair share of 1 night stands and everything in between that asking a second time with a question such as "are you sure" or "not tonight?" etc is completely acceptable and totally in the women being asked hands to shut down again, you can't argue "well she said no the first time, but he asked again and she said yes... That's rape! No that is consent and unless there was any physical trauma or threatening action I can't help but see no issue. Please go on to explain. You can happily go "there was no threatening action" but you're a stranger to them and they may be in a strange environment. There's a fuckload of coercive rape culture shit that you simply don't know about because you're a man. I'm not saying that you were coercive or that you would ignore a "no" but you simply need to appear coercive for her decision to be influenced and you can't always tell how you are perceived. This is the grey area issue with pressuring with a stranger. Exactly so it's grey, how do you handle grey areas? One the woman should learn to understand her rights and be more entitled to herself, I can't understand how a man can say "no" and be begged and begged (which happens, women are notorious for begging for sex when their partner or non-partner aren't interested) but a man asks once or twice and he comes off as the rapist if she agrees and regrets the next day... Hell I've had regret sex, I: think it's a very natural thing. You get drunk, you can't tell what's what and you have sex with a girl who isn't attractive in the personality or physicality sense but she came on to you and you just kinda fell into it, would that be rape because I never said yes or no? . I'm really confused by your question. You concede there may be grey areas in which their consent is granted based upon intimidation, even if the guy didn't intend to coerce the victim but you don't know how to handle them? Avoid the grey area, exactly as Sunset said. "There's this situation where I may accidentally rape someone if I do this thing, how do I handle it?" "Don't do that thing" Jeez I understand that haha, I as more questioning why one is acceptable and one is not, why can a man be placed into an awkward position where he repeatedly gets asked for sex while a women has more liberty in that subject. Is it because of the rarity of men getting raped? But with respect to that, are men really getting "regret sex" more than women? I mean people just don't think of it as rape because it was the guy and men are stereotypically sex hungry fiends that think of sex 34 times a day while women only do it 19 times a day on average? I suppose I'm just curious as to why the grey area only reflects onto men. In theory it doesn't, you could hypothetically raise a man with all the propaganda and sexuality that we project onto girls from an early age and then put them in an environment in which they're raised to feel that their purpose is to be objectified by women and that they don't have the right to their own body. Then tell them that they're wrong for feeling that they can say no and it's their fault anyway and that they're asking for it. Then get them drunk and put them in a strange environment with a physically intimidating woman who is aggressively pressuring them for sex. In that situation, sure, it reflects on women too. Until that happens though, welcome to rape culture. http://yesmeansyesblog.wordpress.com/2009/07/23/this-is-what-rape-culture-looks-like/ That article you quoted there is extremely biased. When people in power refuse to take women’s rape charges seriously, it means there are no consequences for rapists, which makes them more free to rape. 95% of all female rape cases are taken seriously (at the very minimum). You always hear about rape victims on chat shows etc, how they dealt with it and got the support they needed. Male rape victims are basically never taken seriously? When was the last time you heard about a male rape victim anywhere. Most male rape victims don't even report the rape, so they can't talk about female rape needing to be taken more seriously. Vast majority of female rape cases aren't even reported, same as male. People in power typically buy into the same "asking for it" myths that much of the rest of society, particularly older generations, buy into. There was a US congressman failing to take it seriously not so long ago (Todd Akin), I'm not sure how you can argue that people in power get it. It's still a much larger proportion of rapes that are reported though. All I'm saying is that in terms of being taken seriously, women have nothing to complain about compared to males.
On August 24 2012 01:38 Tao367 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 24 2012 01:29 ComaDose wrote:On August 24 2012 01:26 Tao367 wrote:On August 24 2012 01:17 ComaDose wrote:On August 24 2012 00:53 Tao367 wrote:On August 24 2012 00:50 KwarK wrote:On August 24 2012 00:48 Tao367 wrote:On August 24 2012 00:43 KwarK wrote:On August 24 2012 00:39 NeMeSiS3 wrote:On August 24 2012 00:36 KwarK wrote:
[quote]
I'm really confused by your question. You concede there may be grey areas in which their consent is granted based upon intimidation, even if the guy didn't intend to coerce the victim but you don't know how to handle them? Avoid the grey area, exactly as Sunset said.
"There's this situation where I may accidentally rape someone if I do this thing, how do I handle it?"
"Don't do that thing"
Jeez I understand that haha, I as more questioning why one is acceptable and one is not, why can a man be placed into an awkward position where he repeatedly gets asked for sex while a women has more liberty in that subject. Is it because of the rarity of men getting raped? But with respect to that, are men really getting "regret sex" more than women? I mean people just don't think of it as rape because it was the guy and men are stereotypically sex hungry fiends that think of sex 34 times a day while women only do it 19 times a day on average? I suppose I'm just curious as to why the grey area only reflects onto men. In theory it doesn't, you could hypothetically raise a man with all the propaganda and sexuality that we project onto girls from an early age and then put them in an environment in which they're raised to feel that their purpose is to be objectified by women and that they don't have the right to their own body. Then tell them that they're wrong for feeling that they can say no and it's their fault anyway and that they're asking for it. Then get them drunk and put them in a strange environment with a physically intimidating woman who is aggressively pressuring them for sex. In that situation, sure, it reflects on women too. Until that happens though, welcome to rape culture. http://yesmeansyesblog.wordpress.com/2009/07/23/this-is-what-rape-culture-looks-like/ That article you quoted there is extremely biased. When people in power refuse to take women’s rape charges seriously, it means there are no consequences for rapists, which makes them more free to rape. 95% of all female rape cases are taken seriously (at the very minimum). You always hear about rape victims on chat shows etc, how they dealt with it and got the support they needed. Male rape victims are basically never taken seriously? When was the last time you heard about a male rape victim anywhere. Most male rape victims don't even report the rape, so they can't talk about female rape needing to be taken more seriously. Vast majority of female rape cases aren't even reported, same as male. People in power typically buy into the same "asking for it" myths that much of the rest of society, particularly older generations, buy into. There was a US congressman failing to take it seriously not so long ago (Todd Akin), I'm not sure how you can argue that people in power get it. It's still a much larger proportion of rapes that are reported though. All I'm saying is that in terms of being taken seriously, women have nothing to complain about compared to males. source please? cause I'm almost positive your making things up. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_statisticsfirst google result. did you try that? I am furious with you and disgusted with your ignorance I'm having difficulty deciding where to start. First I'm going to ask you if you are legitimately feeling oppressed as a male in our society. Do you understand the degree of privilege you are entitled to by your penis? Do you acknowledge that the fact that assuming your heteronormitive, born to the sex that matches the gender you choose to represent and strait gives you increadable advantages everyday and from everyone? Do you even know what that means? Second I'm going to ask you why you think all rape cases are taken seriously. Have you been raped? Have you reported your rape to the police? Do you know anyone who has? I have heard testimonies from many people who have been raped and reported it to the police. Do you know what the slut walk stands for? Listen to their speakers. People who have actually been through what your trying to talk about. Women who are raped are often asked. was it your boyfriend? were you in his appartment? were you dressed provocatively? were you drinking? and if you don't understand why all these questions are victim blaming and irrelivant then try to culture yourself before spewing ignorant stuff into this thread that makes me lose faith in society. - male-female rape is the most common rape by an order of hundreds - (1995), sexual violence, and rape in particular, is considered the most under-reported violent crime - new laws have recently been introduce to have females lead rape cases due to how many were not taken seriously. basically everything you said is wrong. and your wrong. and your view is damaging to women in society. the vast majority is not reported women have way more to complain about then men about rape not being taken seriously smarten up It appears I've somehow made you mad. At no point have I said men have more to lose from being raped or anything like that. I simply said, female to male rape is more common than you think, according to wiki (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_by_gender):
However, male victims of sexual abuse by females[23] often face social, political, and legal double standards.[24] While gender-neutral laws have combated the older perception that rape never occurs to men,[25] and other laws have eliminated the term altogether,[26] the double standards still remain.
That's all I've said.
The U.S. Bureau of Justice Statistics (1997) estimated that 91% of United States rape victims were female and 9% were male, with 99% of the offenders being male and 1% of the offenders being female.[1]
I have not denied the quoted fact. I have said however, that a larger proportion of women report being raped by a man than men report being raped by a woman. NO! YOU SAID: It's still a much larger proportion of rapes that are reported though. All I'm saying is that in terms of being taken seriously, women have nothing to complain about compared to males. which has 2 points. both of which are wrong! No. You may be misunderstanding me. I'm saying a larger % of female rape victims report their rape than the % of male rape victims. Show nested quote +According to the Stern Review, the victim is male in around 8% of all recorded rape cases. The unrecorded figure is thought to be far higher. Show nested quote +
The proportion of men who go on to report sexual assault is extremely low and the number of victims greater than the government or media coverage would suggest.
Show nested quote +
The British Crime Survey 2001/2 reported that while 4.2% of women and 4.2% of men said they had been victims of domestic violence in the past year, only 19% of men went on to report it compared with 81% of women.
This is a common bit of argument derailment used in these discussions. "Well, male rape victims have it worst because of X, Y, Z, etc." That doesn't change the facts of anything. It doesn't make rape against women any more wrong, nor does it change the subtle societal pressures that suggest women should put out to men regardless of how they feel about it.
The question of how many male rape victims there are or how they're treated changes nothing about the question of rape culture.
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On August 24 2012 01:38 Tao367 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 24 2012 01:29 ComaDose wrote:On August 24 2012 01:26 Tao367 wrote:On August 24 2012 01:17 ComaDose wrote:On August 24 2012 00:53 Tao367 wrote:On August 24 2012 00:50 KwarK wrote:On August 24 2012 00:48 Tao367 wrote:On August 24 2012 00:43 KwarK wrote:On August 24 2012 00:39 NeMeSiS3 wrote:On August 24 2012 00:36 KwarK wrote:
[quote]
I'm really confused by your question. You concede there may be grey areas in which their consent is granted based upon intimidation, even if the guy didn't intend to coerce the victim but you don't know how to handle them? Avoid the grey area, exactly as Sunset said.
"There's this situation where I may accidentally rape someone if I do this thing, how do I handle it?"
"Don't do that thing"
Jeez I understand that haha, I as more questioning why one is acceptable and one is not, why can a man be placed into an awkward position where he repeatedly gets asked for sex while a women has more liberty in that subject. Is it because of the rarity of men getting raped? But with respect to that, are men really getting "regret sex" more than women? I mean people just don't think of it as rape because it was the guy and men are stereotypically sex hungry fiends that think of sex 34 times a day while women only do it 19 times a day on average? I suppose I'm just curious as to why the grey area only reflects onto men. In theory it doesn't, you could hypothetically raise a man with all the propaganda and sexuality that we project onto girls from an early age and then put them in an environment in which they're raised to feel that their purpose is to be objectified by women and that they don't have the right to their own body. Then tell them that they're wrong for feeling that they can say no and it's their fault anyway and that they're asking for it. Then get them drunk and put them in a strange environment with a physically intimidating woman who is aggressively pressuring them for sex. In that situation, sure, it reflects on women too. Until that happens though, welcome to rape culture. http://yesmeansyesblog.wordpress.com/2009/07/23/this-is-what-rape-culture-looks-like/ That article you quoted there is extremely biased. When people in power refuse to take women’s rape charges seriously, it means there are no consequences for rapists, which makes them more free to rape. 95% of all female rape cases are taken seriously (at the very minimum). You always hear about rape victims on chat shows etc, how they dealt with it and got the support they needed. Male rape victims are basically never taken seriously? When was the last time you heard about a male rape victim anywhere. Most male rape victims don't even report the rape, so they can't talk about female rape needing to be taken more seriously. Vast majority of female rape cases aren't even reported, same as male. People in power typically buy into the same "asking for it" myths that much of the rest of society, particularly older generations, buy into. There was a US congressman failing to take it seriously not so long ago (Todd Akin), I'm not sure how you can argue that people in power get it. It's still a much larger proportion of rapes that are reported though. All I'm saying is that in terms of being taken seriously, women have nothing to complain about compared to males. source please? cause I'm almost positive your making things up. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_statisticsfirst google result. did you try that? I am furious with you and disgusted with your ignorance I'm having difficulty deciding where to start. First I'm going to ask you if you are legitimately feeling oppressed as a male in our society. Do you understand the degree of privilege you are entitled to by your penis? Do you acknowledge that the fact that assuming your heteronormitive, born to the sex that matches the gender you choose to represent and strait gives you increadable advantages everyday and from everyone? Do you even know what that means? Second I'm going to ask you why you think all rape cases are taken seriously. Have you been raped? Have you reported your rape to the police? Do you know anyone who has? I have heard testimonies from many people who have been raped and reported it to the police. Do you know what the slut walk stands for? Listen to their speakers. People who have actually been through what your trying to talk about. Women who are raped are often asked. was it your boyfriend? were you in his appartment? were you dressed provocatively? were you drinking? and if you don't understand why all these questions are victim blaming and irrelivant then try to culture yourself before spewing ignorant stuff into this thread that makes me lose faith in society. - male-female rape is the most common rape by an order of hundreds - (1995), sexual violence, and rape in particular, is considered the most under-reported violent crime - new laws have recently been introduce to have females lead rape cases due to how many were not taken seriously. basically everything you said is wrong. and your wrong. and your view is damaging to women in society. the vast majority is not reported women have way more to complain about then men about rape not being taken seriously smarten up It appears I've somehow made you mad. At no point have I said men have more to lose from being raped or anything like that. I simply said, female to male rape is more common than you think, according to wiki (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_by_gender):
However, male victims of sexual abuse by females[23] often face social, political, and legal double standards.[24] While gender-neutral laws have combated the older perception that rape never occurs to men,[25] and other laws have eliminated the term altogether,[26] the double standards still remain.
That's all I've said.
The U.S. Bureau of Justice Statistics (1997) estimated that 91% of United States rape victims were female and 9% were male, with 99% of the offenders being male and 1% of the offenders being female.[1]
I have not denied the quoted fact. I have said however, that a larger proportion of women report being raped by a man than men report being raped by a woman. NO! YOU SAID: It's still a much larger proportion of rapes that are reported though. All I'm saying is that in terms of being taken seriously, women have nothing to complain about compared to males. which has 2 points. both of which are wrong! No. You may be misunderstanding me. I'm saying a larger % of female rape victims report their rape than the % of male rape victims. Show nested quote +According to the Stern Review, the victim is male in around 8% of all recorded rape cases. The unrecorded figure is thought to be far higher. Show nested quote +
The proportion of men who go on to report sexual assault is extremely low and the number of victims greater than the government or media coverage would suggest.
Show nested quote +
The British Crime Survey 2001/2 reported that while 4.2% of women and 4.2% of men said they had been victims of domestic violence in the past year, only 19% of men went on to report it compared with 81% of women.
you actually willing to admit you said All I'm saying is that in terms of being taken seriously, women have nothing to complain about compared to males.
and you standing by it? 
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On August 24 2012 01:33 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On August 24 2012 01:32 Tao367 wrote:Also, for people arguing what rape is, I'll add the definition of statutory rape in there: Sexual intercourse with a person below a statutorily designated age. This means in the UK, a 16 year old can go to jail for having sexual relations with a consenting 15 year old person. Is that rape? In this case you're looking at whether a person is emotionally mature enough to consent. Some 15 year olds are, some 16 year olds aren't. It's an arbitrary line but you have to draw one somewhere because emotional maturity is a component of consent.
That doesn't matter. In the eyes of the law, that's rape. If it got to court, the 16 year old has raped another person. That's why laws are shit and need to be reformed.
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On August 24 2012 00:50 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On August 24 2012 00:48 Tao367 wrote:On August 24 2012 00:43 KwarK wrote:On August 24 2012 00:39 NeMeSiS3 wrote:On August 24 2012 00:36 KwarK wrote:On August 24 2012 00:30 NeMeSiS3 wrote:On August 24 2012 00:28 KwarK wrote:On August 24 2012 00:24 NeMeSiS3 wrote:On August 24 2012 00:20 SunsetSC2 wrote:On August 24 2012 00:18 Crushinator wrote:
[quote]
Oh please. I know my girlfriend well enough that I know when I can continue pursuing sex after she's said no the first time. Sometimes I will do it fairly agressively, and sometimes without success. She at times practically rapes me. We are both very secure with this, I don't know why this is a problem according to you. I'm not talking about people in relationships, for crying out loud. Actually that wasn't very clear and it could be misquoted that you were. Frankly, speaking outside the limits of a relationship, I can't help but see no issue in a man who has been getting signs (they're rather simple) to press the subject. I can see that if a girl really means no, it should be obvious but a lot of the time they're drunk and giggling which gives men very mixed signals, especially if she has been hanging on your arm all night. Generally speaking, and I'll stick to this as I've never been commited for rape charges but have had my fair share of 1 night stands and everything in between that asking a second time with a question such as "are you sure" or "not tonight?" etc is completely acceptable and totally in the women being asked hands to shut down again, you can't argue "well she said no the first time, but he asked again and she said yes... That's rape! No that is consent and unless there was any physical trauma or threatening action I can't help but see no issue. Please go on to explain. You can happily go "there was no threatening action" but you're a stranger to them and they may be in a strange environment. There's a fuckload of coercive rape culture shit that you simply don't know about because you're a man. I'm not saying that you were coercive or that you would ignore a "no" but you simply need to appear coercive for her decision to be influenced and you can't always tell how you are perceived. This is the grey area issue with pressuring with a stranger. Exactly so it's grey, how do you handle grey areas? One the woman should learn to understand her rights and be more entitled to herself, I can't understand how a man can say "no" and be begged and begged (which happens, women are notorious for begging for sex when their partner or non-partner aren't interested) but a man asks once or twice and he comes off as the rapist if she agrees and regrets the next day... Hell I've had regret sex, I: think it's a very natural thing. You get drunk, you can't tell what's what and you have sex with a girl who isn't attractive in the personality or physicality sense but she came on to you and you just kinda fell into it, would that be rape because I never said yes or no? . I'm really confused by your question. You concede there may be grey areas in which their consent is granted based upon intimidation, even if the guy didn't intend to coerce the victim but you don't know how to handle them? Avoid the grey area, exactly as Sunset said. "There's this situation where I may accidentally rape someone if I do this thing, how do I handle it?" "Don't do that thing" Jeez I understand that haha, I as more questioning why one is acceptable and one is not, why can a man be placed into an awkward position where he repeatedly gets asked for sex while a women has more liberty in that subject. Is it because of the rarity of men getting raped? But with respect to that, are men really getting "regret sex" more than women? I mean people just don't think of it as rape because it was the guy and men are stereotypically sex hungry fiends that think of sex 34 times a day while women only do it 19 times a day on average? I suppose I'm just curious as to why the grey area only reflects onto men. In theory it doesn't, you could hypothetically raise a man with all the propaganda and sexuality that we project onto girls from an early age and then put them in an environment in which they're raised to feel that their purpose is to be objectified by women and that they don't have the right to their own body. Then tell them that they're wrong for feeling that they can say no and it's their fault anyway and that they're asking for it. Then get them drunk and put them in a strange environment with a physically intimidating woman who is aggressively pressuring them for sex. In that situation, sure, it reflects on women too. Until that happens though, welcome to rape culture. http://yesmeansyesblog.wordpress.com/2009/07/23/this-is-what-rape-culture-looks-like/ That article you quoted there is extremely biased. When people in power refuse to take women’s rape charges seriously, it means there are no consequences for rapists, which makes them more free to rape. 95% of all female rape cases are taken seriously (at the very minimum). You always hear about rape victims on chat shows etc, how they dealt with it and got the support they needed. Male rape victims are basically never taken seriously? When was the last time you heard about a male rape victim anywhere. Most male rape victims don't even report the rape, so they can't talk about female rape needing to be taken more seriously. Vast majority of female rape cases aren't even reported, same as male. People in power typically buy into the same "asking for it" myths that much of the rest of society, particularly older generations, buy into. There was a US congressman failing to take it seriously not so long ago (Todd Akin), I'm not sure how you can argue that people in power get it.
^ This is true. The Akin scandal signifies the very issues women have with rape. A US politician was actually using terms like "if a woman experienced legitimate rape, their body has ways of aborting the baby if they were impregnated" (Paraphrasing but not by that much).
It seems like a lot of posters really need to educate themselves on rape myths and facts. Rape/sexual assault is one of the most underreported crimes.
http://www.rainn.org/get-information/statistics/sexual-assault-offenders
Approximately 2/3 of rapes were committed by someone known to the victim.1
73% of sexual assaults were perpetrated by a non-stranger.1
38% of rapists are a friend or acquaintance.1
28% are an intimate.1
7% are a relative.1
Sexual assault is one of the most under reported crimes, with 54% still being left unreported.1
1. U.S. Department of Justice. 2005 National Crime Victimization Study. 2005.
The sexual assault unreported stat is likely much higher.
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On August 24 2012 01:32 Tao367 wrote:Also, for people arguing what rape is, I'll add the definition of statutory rape in there: This means in the UK, a 16 year old (of the age of consent) can go to jail for having sexual relations with a consenting 15 year old person (not of the age of consent). Is that rape?
Dutch law provides an article which states that it is not illegal if the two are close in age. It does not provide an exact age but usually 3-5 year age difference would be considered close, it is left up to the Judges discretion to determine if they were emotional equals.
I don't know the law in the UK, but I would imagine it is much the same.
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On August 24 2012 01:40 ComaDose wrote:Show nested quote +On August 24 2012 01:38 Tao367 wrote:On August 24 2012 01:29 ComaDose wrote:On August 24 2012 01:26 Tao367 wrote:On August 24 2012 01:17 ComaDose wrote:On August 24 2012 00:53 Tao367 wrote:On August 24 2012 00:50 KwarK wrote:On August 24 2012 00:48 Tao367 wrote:On August 24 2012 00:43 KwarK wrote:On August 24 2012 00:39 NeMeSiS3 wrote:
[quote]
I understand that haha, I as more questioning why one is acceptable and one is not, why can a man be placed into an awkward position where he repeatedly gets asked for sex while a women has more liberty in that subject. Is it because of the rarity of men getting raped? But with respect to that, are men really getting "regret sex" more than women? I mean people just don't think of it as rape because it was the guy and men are stereotypically sex hungry fiends that think of sex 34 times a day while women only do it 19 times a day on average?
I suppose I'm just curious as to why the grey area only reflects onto men. In theory it doesn't, you could hypothetically raise a man with all the propaganda and sexuality that we project onto girls from an early age and then put them in an environment in which they're raised to feel that their purpose is to be objectified by women and that they don't have the right to their own body. Then tell them that they're wrong for feeling that they can say no and it's their fault anyway and that they're asking for it. Then get them drunk and put them in a strange environment with a physically intimidating woman who is aggressively pressuring them for sex. In that situation, sure, it reflects on women too. Until that happens though, welcome to rape culture. http://yesmeansyesblog.wordpress.com/2009/07/23/this-is-what-rape-culture-looks-like/ That article you quoted there is extremely biased. When people in power refuse to take women’s rape charges seriously, it means there are no consequences for rapists, which makes them more free to rape. 95% of all female rape cases are taken seriously (at the very minimum). You always hear about rape victims on chat shows etc, how they dealt with it and got the support they needed. Male rape victims are basically never taken seriously? When was the last time you heard about a male rape victim anywhere. Most male rape victims don't even report the rape, so they can't talk about female rape needing to be taken more seriously. Vast majority of female rape cases aren't even reported, same as male. People in power typically buy into the same "asking for it" myths that much of the rest of society, particularly older generations, buy into. There was a US congressman failing to take it seriously not so long ago (Todd Akin), I'm not sure how you can argue that people in power get it. It's still a much larger proportion of rapes that are reported though. All I'm saying is that in terms of being taken seriously, women have nothing to complain about compared to males. source please? cause I'm almost positive your making things up. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_statisticsfirst google result. did you try that? I am furious with you and disgusted with your ignorance I'm having difficulty deciding where to start. First I'm going to ask you if you are legitimately feeling oppressed as a male in our society. Do you understand the degree of privilege you are entitled to by your penis? Do you acknowledge that the fact that assuming your heteronormitive, born to the sex that matches the gender you choose to represent and strait gives you increadable advantages everyday and from everyone? Do you even know what that means? Second I'm going to ask you why you think all rape cases are taken seriously. Have you been raped? Have you reported your rape to the police? Do you know anyone who has? I have heard testimonies from many people who have been raped and reported it to the police. Do you know what the slut walk stands for? Listen to their speakers. People who have actually been through what your trying to talk about. Women who are raped are often asked. was it your boyfriend? were you in his appartment? were you dressed provocatively? were you drinking? and if you don't understand why all these questions are victim blaming and irrelivant then try to culture yourself before spewing ignorant stuff into this thread that makes me lose faith in society. - male-female rape is the most common rape by an order of hundreds - (1995), sexual violence, and rape in particular, is considered the most under-reported violent crime - new laws have recently been introduce to have females lead rape cases due to how many were not taken seriously. basically everything you said is wrong. and your wrong. and your view is damaging to women in society. the vast majority is not reported women have way more to complain about then men about rape not being taken seriously smarten up It appears I've somehow made you mad. At no point have I said men have more to lose from being raped or anything like that. I simply said, female to male rape is more common than you think, according to wiki (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_by_gender):
However, male victims of sexual abuse by females[23] often face social, political, and legal double standards.[24] While gender-neutral laws have combated the older perception that rape never occurs to men,[25] and other laws have eliminated the term altogether,[26] the double standards still remain.
That's all I've said.
The U.S. Bureau of Justice Statistics (1997) estimated that 91% of United States rape victims were female and 9% were male, with 99% of the offenders being male and 1% of the offenders being female.[1]
I have not denied the quoted fact. I have said however, that a larger proportion of women report being raped by a man than men report being raped by a woman. NO! YOU SAID: It's still a much larger proportion of rapes that are reported though. All I'm saying is that in terms of being taken seriously, women have nothing to complain about compared to males. which has 2 points. both of which are wrong! No. You may be misunderstanding me. I'm saying a larger % of female rape victims report their rape than the % of male rape victims. According to the Stern Review, the victim is male in around 8% of all recorded rape cases. The unrecorded figure is thought to be far higher.
The proportion of men who go on to report sexual assault is extremely low and the number of victims greater than the government or media coverage would suggest.
The British Crime Survey 2001/2 reported that while 4.2% of women and 4.2% of men said they had been victims of domestic violence in the past year, only 19% of men went on to report it compared with 81% of women.
you actually willing to admit you said Show nested quote + All I'm saying is that in terms of being taken seriously, women have nothing to complain about compared to males. and you standing by it?
I think you have come into a conversation that was already progress, and have taken my comment to mean something without context. We were arguing about the political, social and culultral issues and expectations regarding gender in rape cases at the time. Males face double standards, and almost bullying when getting raped by a woman, whereas the women is "brave" for reporting it. That's why a lower proportion of males report it.
Yes I can admit said that. Why wouldn't I?
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On August 24 2012 01:41 Tao367 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 24 2012 01:33 KwarK wrote:On August 24 2012 01:32 Tao367 wrote:Also, for people arguing what rape is, I'll add the definition of statutory rape in there: Sexual intercourse with a person below a statutorily designated age. This means in the UK, a 16 year old can go to jail for having sexual relations with a consenting 15 year old person. Is that rape? In this case you're looking at whether a person is emotionally mature enough to consent. Some 15 year olds are, some 16 year olds aren't. It's an arbitrary line but you have to draw one somewhere because emotional maturity is a component of consent. That doesn't matter. In the eyes of the law, that's rape. If it got to court, the 16 year old has raped another person. That's why laws are shit and need to be reformed.
And what precisely would you suggest? Laws must ultimately be objective, and there is no objective way to determine emotional maturity. But there is an objective way to determine age.
Granted, I've always been in favor of a sliding window (plus or minus 2 years) rather than a hard year. But ultimately, you have to have something objective. And age govers a lot of the cases.
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On August 24 2012 01:39 NicolBolas wrote:
It's funny; that used to be my impression as well.
Then I read this thread. People exposuing your beliefs have convinced me that it's quite real.
Granted, I would call it "sexaul entitlement culture", but the principle is the same: men ought to get sex, so women give it to them.
The obvious implication of that is that women don't want sex and only do it because they have to, which I don't believe to be true. In some cases, I'm sure it is, in which case "sexual entitlement culture" is closer to reality than "rape culture".
If I'm dating a girl and she feels like she HAS to have sex on the third date because of some bullshit social standards, it's a perverse social problem, but it doesn't have anything to do with rape.
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I agree that having the term "rape culture" disguises the criminality of rape. It is not standard or normal.
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On August 24 2012 01:40 ComaDose wrote:Show nested quote +On August 24 2012 01:38 Tao367 wrote:On August 24 2012 01:29 ComaDose wrote:On August 24 2012 01:26 Tao367 wrote:On August 24 2012 01:17 ComaDose wrote:On August 24 2012 00:53 Tao367 wrote:On August 24 2012 00:50 KwarK wrote:On August 24 2012 00:48 Tao367 wrote:On August 24 2012 00:43 KwarK wrote:On August 24 2012 00:39 NeMeSiS3 wrote:
[quote]
I understand that haha, I as more questioning why one is acceptable and one is not, why can a man be placed into an awkward position where he repeatedly gets asked for sex while a women has more liberty in that subject. Is it because of the rarity of men getting raped? But with respect to that, are men really getting "regret sex" more than women? I mean people just don't think of it as rape because it was the guy and men are stereotypically sex hungry fiends that think of sex 34 times a day while women only do it 19 times a day on average?
I suppose I'm just curious as to why the grey area only reflects onto men. In theory it doesn't, you could hypothetically raise a man with all the propaganda and sexuality that we project onto girls from an early age and then put them in an environment in which they're raised to feel that their purpose is to be objectified by women and that they don't have the right to their own body. Then tell them that they're wrong for feeling that they can say no and it's their fault anyway and that they're asking for it. Then get them drunk and put them in a strange environment with a physically intimidating woman who is aggressively pressuring them for sex. In that situation, sure, it reflects on women too. Until that happens though, welcome to rape culture. http://yesmeansyesblog.wordpress.com/2009/07/23/this-is-what-rape-culture-looks-like/ That article you quoted there is extremely biased. When people in power refuse to take women’s rape charges seriously, it means there are no consequences for rapists, which makes them more free to rape. 95% of all female rape cases are taken seriously (at the very minimum). You always hear about rape victims on chat shows etc, how they dealt with it and got the support they needed. Male rape victims are basically never taken seriously? When was the last time you heard about a male rape victim anywhere. Most male rape victims don't even report the rape, so they can't talk about female rape needing to be taken more seriously. Vast majority of female rape cases aren't even reported, same as male. People in power typically buy into the same "asking for it" myths that much of the rest of society, particularly older generations, buy into. There was a US congressman failing to take it seriously not so long ago (Todd Akin), I'm not sure how you can argue that people in power get it. It's still a much larger proportion of rapes that are reported though. All I'm saying is that in terms of being taken seriously, women have nothing to complain about compared to males. source please? cause I'm almost positive your making things up. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_statisticsfirst google result. did you try that? I am furious with you and disgusted with your ignorance I'm having difficulty deciding where to start. First I'm going to ask you if you are legitimately feeling oppressed as a male in our society. Do you understand the degree of privilege you are entitled to by your penis? Do you acknowledge that the fact that assuming your heteronormitive, born to the sex that matches the gender you choose to represent and strait gives you increadable advantages everyday and from everyone? Do you even know what that means? Second I'm going to ask you why you think all rape cases are taken seriously. Have you been raped? Have you reported your rape to the police? Do you know anyone who has? I have heard testimonies from many people who have been raped and reported it to the police. Do you know what the slut walk stands for? Listen to their speakers. People who have actually been through what your trying to talk about. Women who are raped are often asked. was it your boyfriend? were you in his appartment? were you dressed provocatively? were you drinking? and if you don't understand why all these questions are victim blaming and irrelivant then try to culture yourself before spewing ignorant stuff into this thread that makes me lose faith in society. - male-female rape is the most common rape by an order of hundreds - (1995), sexual violence, and rape in particular, is considered the most under-reported violent crime - new laws have recently been introduce to have females lead rape cases due to how many were not taken seriously. basically everything you said is wrong. and your wrong. and your view is damaging to women in society. the vast majority is not reported women have way more to complain about then men about rape not being taken seriously smarten up It appears I've somehow made you mad. At no point have I said men have more to lose from being raped or anything like that. I simply said, female to male rape is more common than you think, according to wiki (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_by_gender):
However, male victims of sexual abuse by females[23] often face social, political, and legal double standards.[24] While gender-neutral laws have combated the older perception that rape never occurs to men,[25] and other laws have eliminated the term altogether,[26] the double standards still remain.
That's all I've said.
The U.S. Bureau of Justice Statistics (1997) estimated that 91% of United States rape victims were female and 9% were male, with 99% of the offenders being male and 1% of the offenders being female.[1]
I have not denied the quoted fact. I have said however, that a larger proportion of women report being raped by a man than men report being raped by a woman. NO! YOU SAID: It's still a much larger proportion of rapes that are reported though. All I'm saying is that in terms of being taken seriously, women have nothing to complain about compared to males. which has 2 points. both of which are wrong! No. You may be misunderstanding me. I'm saying a larger % of female rape victims report their rape than the % of male rape victims. According to the Stern Review, the victim is male in around 8% of all recorded rape cases. The unrecorded figure is thought to be far higher.
The proportion of men who go on to report sexual assault is extremely low and the number of victims greater than the government or media coverage would suggest.
The British Crime Survey 2001/2 reported that while 4.2% of women and 4.2% of men said they had been victims of domestic violence in the past year, only 19% of men went on to report it compared with 81% of women.
you actually willing to admit you said Show nested quote + All I'm saying is that in terms of being taken seriously, women have nothing to complain about compared to males. and you standing by it?
Regardless of whether you agree with him or not -- you clearly don't --, posting stuff in all caps, bold and telling them 'fuck you' does not really accomplish anything other than making you look like an unpleasant, angry person. This clearly is a sensitive topic for you, hence I think it would be better to not let your emotions run rampant -- that is never a good idea, actually.
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On August 24 2012 01:43 Tao367 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 24 2012 01:40 ComaDose wrote:On August 24 2012 01:38 Tao367 wrote:On August 24 2012 01:29 ComaDose wrote:On August 24 2012 01:26 Tao367 wrote:On August 24 2012 01:17 ComaDose wrote:On August 24 2012 00:53 Tao367 wrote:On August 24 2012 00:50 KwarK wrote:On August 24 2012 00:48 Tao367 wrote:On August 24 2012 00:43 KwarK wrote:[quote] In theory it doesn't, you could hypothetically raise a man with all the propaganda and sexuality that we project onto girls from an early age and then put them in an environment in which they're raised to feel that their purpose is to be objectified by women and that they don't have the right to their own body. Then tell them that they're wrong for feeling that they can say no and it's their fault anyway and that they're asking for it. Then get them drunk and put them in a strange environment with a physically intimidating woman who is aggressively pressuring them for sex. In that situation, sure, it reflects on women too. Until that happens though, welcome to rape culture. http://yesmeansyesblog.wordpress.com/2009/07/23/this-is-what-rape-culture-looks-like/ That article you quoted there is extremely biased. When people in power refuse to take women’s rape charges seriously, it means there are no consequences for rapists, which makes them more free to rape. 95% of all female rape cases are taken seriously (at the very minimum). You always hear about rape victims on chat shows etc, how they dealt with it and got the support they needed. Male rape victims are basically never taken seriously? When was the last time you heard about a male rape victim anywhere. Most male rape victims don't even report the rape, so they can't talk about female rape needing to be taken more seriously. Vast majority of female rape cases aren't even reported, same as male. People in power typically buy into the same "asking for it" myths that much of the rest of society, particularly older generations, buy into. There was a US congressman failing to take it seriously not so long ago (Todd Akin), I'm not sure how you can argue that people in power get it. It's still a much larger proportion of rapes that are reported though. All I'm saying is that in terms of being taken seriously, women have nothing to complain about compared to males. source please? cause I'm almost positive your making things up. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_statisticsfirst google result. did you try that? I am furious with you and disgusted with your ignorance I'm having difficulty deciding where to start. First I'm going to ask you if you are legitimately feeling oppressed as a male in our society. Do you understand the degree of privilege you are entitled to by your penis? Do you acknowledge that the fact that assuming your heteronormitive, born to the sex that matches the gender you choose to represent and strait gives you increadable advantages everyday and from everyone? Do you even know what that means? Second I'm going to ask you why you think all rape cases are taken seriously. Have you been raped? Have you reported your rape to the police? Do you know anyone who has? I have heard testimonies from many people who have been raped and reported it to the police. Do you know what the slut walk stands for? Listen to their speakers. People who have actually been through what your trying to talk about. Women who are raped are often asked. was it your boyfriend? were you in his appartment? were you dressed provocatively? were you drinking? and if you don't understand why all these questions are victim blaming and irrelivant then try to culture yourself before spewing ignorant stuff into this thread that makes me lose faith in society. - male-female rape is the most common rape by an order of hundreds - (1995), sexual violence, and rape in particular, is considered the most under-reported violent crime - new laws have recently been introduce to have females lead rape cases due to how many were not taken seriously. basically everything you said is wrong. and your wrong. and your view is damaging to women in society. the vast majority is not reported women have way more to complain about then men about rape not being taken seriously smarten up It appears I've somehow made you mad. At no point have I said men have more to lose from being raped or anything like that. I simply said, female to male rape is more common than you think, according to wiki (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_by_gender):
However, male victims of sexual abuse by females[23] often face social, political, and legal double standards.[24] While gender-neutral laws have combated the older perception that rape never occurs to men,[25] and other laws have eliminated the term altogether,[26] the double standards still remain.
That's all I've said.
The U.S. Bureau of Justice Statistics (1997) estimated that 91% of United States rape victims were female and 9% were male, with 99% of the offenders being male and 1% of the offenders being female.[1]
I have not denied the quoted fact. I have said however, that a larger proportion of women report being raped by a man than men report being raped by a woman. NO! YOU SAID: It's still a much larger proportion of rapes that are reported though. All I'm saying is that in terms of being taken seriously, women have nothing to complain about compared to males. which has 2 points. both of which are wrong! No. You may be misunderstanding me. I'm saying a larger % of female rape victims report their rape than the % of male rape victims. According to the Stern Review, the victim is male in around 8% of all recorded rape cases. The unrecorded figure is thought to be far higher.
The proportion of men who go on to report sexual assault is extremely low and the number of victims greater than the government or media coverage would suggest.
The British Crime Survey 2001/2 reported that while 4.2% of women and 4.2% of men said they had been victims of domestic violence in the past year, only 19% of men went on to report it compared with 81% of women.
you actually willing to admit you said All I'm saying is that in terms of being taken seriously, women have nothing to complain about compared to males. and you standing by it? I think you have come into a conversation that was already progress, and have taken my comment to mean something without context. We were arguing about the political, social and culultral issues and expectations regarding gender in rape cases at the time. Males face double standards, and almost bullying when getting raped by a woman, whereas the women is "brave" for reporting it. That's why a lower proportion of males report it. Yes I can admit said that. Why wouldn't I?
You never asked yourself why a woman is considered "brave" for reporting it. After all, a mugging victim isn't brave for reporting being mugged. So why is a woman considered "brave" by some?
Because of the assholes who will blame her for the crime. Because she is brave to face the public scrutinty we have over rape victims. The fact that male rape victims may face a different form of scrutiny doesn't change the fact that female rape victims have to deal with a lot of societal bullshit.
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It does sound a little unfair when you mention "We are living in a rape culture" and then a bunch of things are listed you personally rarely see happening and have never done yourself. But culture does not have to mean one single definitive mainstream culture that we all share. It can also be contained in certain social circles or come up only occasionally. The best judge of this is look at the conversation that happens whenever a woman is raped. There are always a few jerks that can spout nonsense about how boys will be boys and they are accepted in a way that would never happen if they said the same thing about, like, gassing Jews. You can also see it by asking women if they have ever felt threatened or by asking rape victims if they ever felt ike they were to blame for their misery because of arguments they had internalized.
I should mention something that happened to me once. I was commenting on a blog post on a feminist forum where someone said that any sort of rape prevention is equivalent to having a culture that allows victim-blaming (which is of course one of the worst aspects of being raped). I said something along the lines of that I felt that was not very nuanced and there would be situations where it would be positive (my example was self-defense training) and that by using it as a slogan and by being unwilling to concede any small nuances, the argument became less effective. As a result my posts (and attempts to defend myself) were being misinterpret and I was being insulted in all sorts of colorful ways, called a rape culture enabler and a number of horrible things. There was an actual rape victim in the comment section that told me I reminded her of all the horrible abuse and self-doubt inflicted on her. At the end of that thread I couldn't help but think that in many cases it's really hard to have this conversation between men and women, because the stakes are so much higher for the latter and so many things set off triggers. The mere fact you can discuss an issue in a 'neutral and objective manner', as if you're merely interested in arguing about this from this detached perspective is in a sense a privilege made even worse by the fact a lot of men are in small ways responsible for rape culture, just by our every day use of language and very standard culture practice and norms.
I did end up thinking the people on that blog were idiots, but oh well.
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What is Rape?
Baby don't hurt me
User was temp banned for this post.
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On August 24 2012 01:43 Tao367 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 24 2012 01:40 ComaDose wrote:On August 24 2012 01:38 Tao367 wrote:On August 24 2012 01:29 ComaDose wrote:On August 24 2012 01:26 Tao367 wrote:On August 24 2012 01:17 ComaDose wrote:On August 24 2012 00:53 Tao367 wrote:On August 24 2012 00:50 KwarK wrote:On August 24 2012 00:48 Tao367 wrote:On August 24 2012 00:43 KwarK wrote:[quote] In theory it doesn't, you could hypothetically raise a man with all the propaganda and sexuality that we project onto girls from an early age and then put them in an environment in which they're raised to feel that their purpose is to be objectified by women and that they don't have the right to their own body. Then tell them that they're wrong for feeling that they can say no and it's their fault anyway and that they're asking for it. Then get them drunk and put them in a strange environment with a physically intimidating woman who is aggressively pressuring them for sex. In that situation, sure, it reflects on women too. Until that happens though, welcome to rape culture. http://yesmeansyesblog.wordpress.com/2009/07/23/this-is-what-rape-culture-looks-like/ That article you quoted there is extremely biased. When people in power refuse to take women’s rape charges seriously, it means there are no consequences for rapists, which makes them more free to rape. 95% of all female rape cases are taken seriously (at the very minimum). You always hear about rape victims on chat shows etc, how they dealt with it and got the support they needed. Male rape victims are basically never taken seriously? When was the last time you heard about a male rape victim anywhere. Most male rape victims don't even report the rape, so they can't talk about female rape needing to be taken more seriously. Vast majority of female rape cases aren't even reported, same as male. People in power typically buy into the same "asking for it" myths that much of the rest of society, particularly older generations, buy into. There was a US congressman failing to take it seriously not so long ago (Todd Akin), I'm not sure how you can argue that people in power get it. It's still a much larger proportion of rapes that are reported though. All I'm saying is that in terms of being taken seriously, women have nothing to complain about compared to males. source please? cause I'm almost positive your making things up. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_statisticsfirst google result. did you try that? I am furious with you and disgusted with your ignorance I'm having difficulty deciding where to start. First I'm going to ask you if you are legitimately feeling oppressed as a male in our society. Do you understand the degree of privilege you are entitled to by your penis? Do you acknowledge that the fact that assuming your heteronormitive, born to the sex that matches the gender you choose to represent and strait gives you increadable advantages everyday and from everyone? Do you even know what that means? Second I'm going to ask you why you think all rape cases are taken seriously. Have you been raped? Have you reported your rape to the police? Do you know anyone who has? I have heard testimonies from many people who have been raped and reported it to the police. Do you know what the slut walk stands for? Listen to their speakers. People who have actually been through what your trying to talk about. Women who are raped are often asked. was it your boyfriend? were you in his appartment? were you dressed provocatively? were you drinking? and if you don't understand why all these questions are victim blaming and irrelivant then try to culture yourself before spewing ignorant stuff into this thread that makes me lose faith in society. - male-female rape is the most common rape by an order of hundreds - (1995), sexual violence, and rape in particular, is considered the most under-reported violent crime - new laws have recently been introduce to have females lead rape cases due to how many were not taken seriously. basically everything you said is wrong. and your wrong. and your view is damaging to women in society. the vast majority is not reported women have way more to complain about then men about rape not being taken seriously smarten up It appears I've somehow made you mad. At no point have I said men have more to lose from being raped or anything like that. I simply said, female to male rape is more common than you think, according to wiki (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_by_gender):
However, male victims of sexual abuse by females[23] often face social, political, and legal double standards.[24] While gender-neutral laws have combated the older perception that rape never occurs to men,[25] and other laws have eliminated the term altogether,[26] the double standards still remain.
That's all I've said.
The U.S. Bureau of Justice Statistics (1997) estimated that 91% of United States rape victims were female and 9% were male, with 99% of the offenders being male and 1% of the offenders being female.[1]
I have not denied the quoted fact. I have said however, that a larger proportion of women report being raped by a man than men report being raped by a woman. NO! YOU SAID: It's still a much larger proportion of rapes that are reported though. All I'm saying is that in terms of being taken seriously, women have nothing to complain about compared to males. which has 2 points. both of which are wrong! No. You may be misunderstanding me. I'm saying a larger % of female rape victims report their rape than the % of male rape victims. According to the Stern Review, the victim is male in around 8% of all recorded rape cases. The unrecorded figure is thought to be far higher.
The proportion of men who go on to report sexual assault is extremely low and the number of victims greater than the government or media coverage would suggest.
The British Crime Survey 2001/2 reported that while 4.2% of women and 4.2% of men said they had been victims of domestic violence in the past year, only 19% of men went on to report it compared with 81% of women.
you actually willing to admit you said All I'm saying is that in terms of being taken seriously, women have nothing to complain about compared to males. and you standing by it? I think you have come into a conversation that was already progress, and have taken my comment to mean something without context. We were arguing about the political, social and culultral issues and expectations regarding gender in rape cases at the time. Males face double standards, and almost bullying when getting raped by a woman, whereas the women is "brave" for reporting it. That's why a lower proportion of males report it. Yes I can admit said that. Why wouldn't I?
From Wikipedia: U.S. Bureau of Justice Statistics states that 91% of rape victims are female and 9% are male, and 99% of rapists are male.
I know its been constantly been brought up that females raping males is a real problem, but I have some genuine difficulty percieving it as a problem anywhere close in magnitude to male-to-female rape
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On August 24 2012 01:36 Djzapz wrote:Show nested quote +On August 24 2012 01:32 DoubleReed wrote:On August 24 2012 01:29 Djzapz wrote:On August 24 2012 01:17 KwarK wrote:On August 24 2012 01:14 Djzapz wrote:On August 24 2012 01:10 KwarK wrote:On August 24 2012 01:07 Djzapz wrote:On August 24 2012 00:52 KwarK wrote:On August 24 2012 00:49 Djzapz wrote:On August 24 2012 00:45 Grumbels wrote:
[quote]
I've never heard of 'women begging an uninterested partner for sex' being something that happens frequently and that they are notorious for. Part of rape culture is the lingering threat of violence that underpins a lot of negotiating for sex. If your potential partner ever feels even slightly threatened or coerced then it might not be technically rape, but you're still taking advantage of rape culture and taking advantage of her. If you are very clear about the lack of coercion then in many circumstances it might be okay to ask a few follow-up questions as part of the conversation; since after all I don't see how asking two times is automatically more coercive than asking one time, when even asking once can already be coercive. However, you need to be very careful and it's probably a bad idea. Women doing the same to men is different because the threat of violence is gone, but of course men can still be coerced in different ways and it's not acceptable if they would do something like that. I don't think it's wise to put up with something like it. It's still different than the same scenario with reverse gender though, simply because of the different context of rape culture. Isn't "rape culture" a bullshit tagline that sex-negative feminists use to blur the line between consensual sex and rape to get you to post ridiculous shit like "you're using the rape culture to get consensual-ish sex"? No, it's not. It's a real and oppressive thing and acknowledging it would go a long way to make sex more consensual and enjoyable for everyone. Nothing about it is sex negative, sex where the women isn't consenting purely to try and find the safest and least confrontational way out of the situation is actually better than when she is. I think you're wrong. "Rape culture" is a disgusting and ridiculous name given to a social problem which is made out to be cultural, when reality it is confined to some people and organizations, and not widespread. If I look over the wiki entry, it talks about a culture in which rape is normalized, which is not the case in the Western world, and to say that it is is just alarmist BS. A lot of rapes occur, that doesn't make it part of the culture. A lot of people make excuses and even condone it, but it's still not part of the culture. "Rape culture" is a popular term used because it's striking and surprising and seems powerful. It's essentially a term used to make an argument, and to convince people that the problem is real. And while it is real that some, or even a LOT of people are part of this "Rape apologists" bunch, it's not an excuse for making cute little titles for it. Take a look at this link, it's what I would have linked earlier if I'd found it at the time. It's a good list of what the issues regarding rape culture are. http://www.shakesville.com/2009/10/rape-culture-101.htmlIt is my belief that rape culture exists in the western world. Rape culture only exists in the western world if you're willing to scrap the word culture and use your own definition for it. "A rape culture condones physical and emotional terrorism against women as the norm." How does that not seem like BS to everyone here? Physical and emotional "terrorism"? That's insulting. You should be insulted. Any man I know would be disgusted to hear that this is what some women think of us. It's not my norm, and it's not the norm of ANYONE I respect. So you've never heard the phrase "boys will be boys" spoken by apologists regarding why a woman should accept abuse as the norm? So now a tagline that I've actually never heard is a guideline to life? Do I need to take the "rape culture" points one by one? I'll do a few, and for every point, ask yourself if this applies to our SOCIETY or if it only applies to a few people. -Rape culture is encouraging male sexual aggression. > Not social, confined to bad individuals -Rape culture is regarding violence as sexy and sexuality as violent > Nope -Rape culture is treating rape as a compliment, as the unbridled passion stirred in a healthy man by a beautiful woman > Absurd -Rape culture is treating straight sexuality as the norm. > Problem indeed - why does it have anything to do with rape? -Rape culture is lumping queer sexuality into nonconsensual sexual practices like pedophilia and bestiality > Nothing to do with rape -Rape culture is privileging heterosexuality > Nothing to do with rape -Rape culture is rape being used as a weapon, a tool of war and genocide and oppression. > Absurd -Rape culture is 1 in 33 men being sexually assaulted in their lifetimes. > Not cultural -Rape culture is encouraging men to use the language of rape to establish dominance over one another > Not convincing -Rape culture is making rape a ubiquitous part of male-exclusive bonding. > That would suck for me if it were true! -Rape culture is ignoring the cavernous need for men's prison reform > Fair enough -Rape culture is 1 in 6 women being sexually assaulted in their lifetimes. > Again, real problem but not cultural -Rape culture is victim-blaming. > Confined to individuals -Rape culture is a judge blaming a child for her own rape. > A judge -Rape culture is a minister blaming his child victims. > A minister ... etc. Maybe I'm digging in the semantics and I shouldn't, but this absurd label is covering the real problem that is rape, by disguising it as a standard - which it isn't. For the love of god, click on my damn link: http://yesmeansyesblog.wordpress.com/2012/06/12/radicalizing-consent-towards-implementing-an-affirmative-consent-model-in-new-yorks-rape-law/This describes in detail how rape culture is affecting our law system in several ways and how we can try to change it. Stop acting as if this isn't an issue. It's a serious thing, and it does exist in American society. I read guy's link and it turned out the be an incoherent ramble, is yours better? Because by the time I'll be done reading your blog that's below a banner that says "A world without rape", I'll have 5 pages to catch up on. Having read a few paragraphs, I'm not convinced.
To make things a little easier, I'll try to point some relevant points:
Requiring a survivor to prove the clarity with which he or she expressed that he or she was not consenting to sexual contact is an echo of the resistance requirement of New York’s obsolete, victim-blaming common law. Further, policy should dictate that “consent” under any definition of the word is almost never validly expressed by silence.
At common law, rape was a crime of general intent, requiring “carnal knowledge of a woman forcibly and against her will,” that the incident be reported promptly, that the story be corroborated, and that the survivor prove “utmost resistance,”[25] which requirement caused many judgments to hinge on the judge’s opinion of the sufficiency of the survivor’s resistance.
This consent policy is comprehensive and certainly admirable as a goal to set for individual interactions. It was criticized as being impossible to fulfill, “hysterical,” and operating under “the stereotypical conviction that women are weak and men are beasts.”[24] The lesson to be taken from this is that many people are very resistant to the idea of communicating about sex, and especially to being told to communicate about sex.
The most famous case of this was the high-profile arrest of Kobe Bryant in 2003. These charges were dropped after Bryant issued a public apology stating in relevant part, “Although I truly believe the encounter between us was consensual, I recognize now that she did not.”[20] These cases are understood by most to be inevitable, if unfortunate, miscommunication, or the understandable consequence of hook-up culture and binge drinking – rather than what they are: crimes.
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On August 24 2012 01:49 Banchan wrote:Baby don't hurt me
Someone got banned for that (and rightfully so), you'll want to edit it quickly.
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On August 24 2012 01:46 Djzapz wrote:Show nested quote +On August 24 2012 01:39 NicolBolas wrote:
It's funny; that used to be my impression as well.
Then I read this thread. People exposuing your beliefs have convinced me that it's quite real.
Granted, I would call it "sexaul entitlement culture", but the principle is the same: men ought to get sex, so women give it to them. The obvious implication of that is that women don't want sex and only do it because they have to, which I don't believe to be true. In some cases, I'm sure it is, in which case "sexual entitlement culture" is closer to reality than "rape culture". If I'm dating a girl and she feels like she HAS to have sex on the third date because of some bullshit social standards, it's a perverse social problem, but it doesn't have anything to do with rape.
But it does. Because if a woman feels like she has to have sex, then odds are good that the man does too. So you've put one person in a position where they feel they're entitled to something from the other. And the other person is trying to fight the ingrained, societal pressure to simply consent, perhaps giving the "mixed signals" people frequently talk about.
This situation, when taken over a reasonable sampling of men and women, will inevitably lead to someone being raped. If you tell half the people that they're entitled to something, some of them will eventually take it. Especially when you have people also telling the victims that they deserved it.
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On August 24 2012 01:49 Crushinator wrote:Show nested quote +On August 24 2012 01:43 Tao367 wrote:On August 24 2012 01:40 ComaDose wrote:On August 24 2012 01:38 Tao367 wrote:On August 24 2012 01:29 ComaDose wrote:On August 24 2012 01:26 Tao367 wrote:On August 24 2012 01:17 ComaDose wrote:On August 24 2012 00:53 Tao367 wrote:On August 24 2012 00:50 KwarK wrote:On August 24 2012 00:48 Tao367 wrote:
[quote]
That article you quoted there is extremely biased.
[quote]
95% of all female rape cases are taken seriously (at the very minimum). You always hear about rape victims on chat shows etc, how they dealt with it and got the support they needed. Male rape victims are basically never taken seriously? When was the last time you heard about a male rape victim anywhere. Most male rape victims don't even report the rape, so they can't talk about female rape needing to be taken more seriously. Vast majority of female rape cases aren't even reported, same as male. People in power typically buy into the same "asking for it" myths that much of the rest of society, particularly older generations, buy into. There was a US congressman failing to take it seriously not so long ago (Todd Akin), I'm not sure how you can argue that people in power get it. It's still a much larger proportion of rapes that are reported though. All I'm saying is that in terms of being taken seriously, women have nothing to complain about compared to males. source please? cause I'm almost positive your making things up. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_statisticsfirst google result. did you try that? I am furious with you and disgusted with your ignorance I'm having difficulty deciding where to start. First I'm going to ask you if you are legitimately feeling oppressed as a male in our society. Do you understand the degree of privilege you are entitled to by your penis? Do you acknowledge that the fact that assuming your heteronormitive, born to the sex that matches the gender you choose to represent and strait gives you increadable advantages everyday and from everyone? Do you even know what that means? Second I'm going to ask you why you think all rape cases are taken seriously. Have you been raped? Have you reported your rape to the police? Do you know anyone who has? I have heard testimonies from many people who have been raped and reported it to the police. Do you know what the slut walk stands for? Listen to their speakers. People who have actually been through what your trying to talk about. Women who are raped are often asked. was it your boyfriend? were you in his appartment? were you dressed provocatively? were you drinking? and if you don't understand why all these questions are victim blaming and irrelivant then try to culture yourself before spewing ignorant stuff into this thread that makes me lose faith in society. - male-female rape is the most common rape by an order of hundreds - (1995), sexual violence, and rape in particular, is considered the most under-reported violent crime - new laws have recently been introduce to have females lead rape cases due to how many were not taken seriously. basically everything you said is wrong. and your wrong. and your view is damaging to women in society. the vast majority is not reported women have way more to complain about then men about rape not being taken seriously smarten up It appears I've somehow made you mad. At no point have I said men have more to lose from being raped or anything like that. I simply said, female to male rape is more common than you think, according to wiki (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_by_gender):
However, male victims of sexual abuse by females[23] often face social, political, and legal double standards.[24] While gender-neutral laws have combated the older perception that rape never occurs to men,[25] and other laws have eliminated the term altogether,[26] the double standards still remain.
That's all I've said.
The U.S. Bureau of Justice Statistics (1997) estimated that 91% of United States rape victims were female and 9% were male, with 99% of the offenders being male and 1% of the offenders being female.[1]
I have not denied the quoted fact. I have said however, that a larger proportion of women report being raped by a man than men report being raped by a woman. NO! YOU SAID: It's still a much larger proportion of rapes that are reported though. All I'm saying is that in terms of being taken seriously, women have nothing to complain about compared to males. which has 2 points. both of which are wrong! No. You may be misunderstanding me. I'm saying a larger % of female rape victims report their rape than the % of male rape victims. According to the Stern Review, the victim is male in around 8% of all recorded rape cases. The unrecorded figure is thought to be far higher.
The proportion of men who go on to report sexual assault is extremely low and the number of victims greater than the government or media coverage would suggest.
The British Crime Survey 2001/2 reported that while 4.2% of women and 4.2% of men said they had been victims of domestic violence in the past year, only 19% of men went on to report it compared with 81% of women.
you actually willing to admit you said All I'm saying is that in terms of being taken seriously, women have nothing to complain about compared to males. and you standing by it? I think you have come into a conversation that was already progress, and have taken my comment to mean something without context. We were arguing about the political, social and culultral issues and expectations regarding gender in rape cases at the time. Males face double standards, and almost bullying when getting raped by a woman, whereas the women is "brave" for reporting it. That's why a lower proportion of males report it. Yes I can admit said that. Why wouldn't I? From Wikipedia: U.S. Bureau of Justice Statistics states that 91% of rape victims are female and 9% are male, and 99% of rapists are male. I know its been constantly been brought up that females raping males is a real problem, but I have some genuine difficulty percieving it as a problem anywhere close in magnitude to male-to-female rape
I truly laugh at males that think they have it hard in a predominately patriarchal society, and this includes the West.
Individuals that are trying to bring up the point of female rapists against male are essentially trying to play down the true issues.
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EPT
