|
On August 24 2012 02:35 Crushinator wrote:Show nested quote +On August 24 2012 02:33 Vega62a wrote:On August 24 2012 02:03 iiGreetings wrote:
Sex without concent of the female with application of force (physically) to follow through upon the action.
Just came up with that definition, by all means it's not perfect but that's what i invision rape. because men are really only physically superior to women, everything else is fair play. If a guy is good with words and got his way, then gg wp sir Tell me you're not serious. So, a woman's boss says to her, "have sex with me or you're fired." If she's fired, she's out on the street. To him you say, "gg wp sir"? Fucking disgusting. I don't think he meant that at all. Calm down.
Sex without concent of the female with application of force (physically) to follow through upon the action.
because men are really only physically superior to women, everything else is fair play.
Which part of that did he not mean? Was it the part where he said it only meant the physical application of force? Or the part where he said that only physical threats count as rape?
Do tell.
|
On August 24 2012 02:36 Blurry wrote:Show nested quote +On August 24 2012 02:33 Vega62a wrote:On August 24 2012 02:03 iiGreetings wrote:
Sex without concent of the female with application of force (physically) to follow through upon the action.
Just came up with that definition, by all means it's not perfect but that's what i invision rape. because men are really only physically superior to women, everything else is fair play. If a guy is good with words and got his way, then gg wp sir Tell me you're not serious. So, a woman's boss says to her, "have sex with me or you're fired." If she's fired, she's out on the street. To him you say, "gg wp sir"? Fucking disgusting. Thats technically sexual harassment, not rape.
She then follows through on the act. Consent was coerced because of the power her boss exerted over her. It is now rape.
|
United States41983 Posts
On August 24 2012 02:36 HornyHerring wrote:There are a bunch of people within this community overusing this word, I'm sure they'll come in here and explain what is rape. Kennigit for example. 
They ought to stop.
|
On August 24 2012 02:37 Vega62a wrote:Show nested quote +On August 24 2012 02:35 Crushinator wrote:On August 24 2012 02:33 Vega62a wrote:On August 24 2012 02:03 iiGreetings wrote:
Sex without concent of the female with application of force (physically) to follow through upon the action.
Just came up with that definition, by all means it's not perfect but that's what i invision rape. because men are really only physically superior to women, everything else is fair play. If a guy is good with words and got his way, then gg wp sir Tell me you're not serious. So, a woman's boss says to her, "have sex with me or you're fired." If she's fired, she's out on the street. To him you say, "gg wp sir"? Fucking disgusting. I don't think he meant that at all. Calm down. Show nested quote +Sex without concent of the female with application of force (physically) to follow through upon the action. Show nested quote + because men are really only physically superior to women, everything else is fair play. Which part of that did he not mean? Was it the part where he said it only meant the physical application of force? Or the part where he said that only physical threats count as rape? Do tell.
Has it crossed your mind that he expressed his thoughts poorly?
|
On August 24 2012 02:39 Crushinator wrote:Show nested quote +On August 24 2012 02:37 Vega62a wrote:On August 24 2012 02:35 Crushinator wrote:On August 24 2012 02:33 Vega62a wrote:On August 24 2012 02:03 iiGreetings wrote:
Sex without concent of the female with application of force (physically) to follow through upon the action.
Just came up with that definition, by all means it's not perfect but that's what i invision rape. because men are really only physically superior to women, everything else is fair play. If a guy is good with words and got his way, then gg wp sir Tell me you're not serious. So, a woman's boss says to her, "have sex with me or you're fired." If she's fired, she's out on the street. To him you say, "gg wp sir"? Fucking disgusting. I don't think he meant that at all. Calm down. Sex without concent of the female with application of force (physically) to follow through upon the action. because men are really only physically superior to women, everything else is fair play. Which part of that did he not mean? Was it the part where he said it only meant the physical application of force? Or the part where he said that only physical threats count as rape? Do tell. Has it crossed your mind that he expressed his thoughts poorly?
He said the exact opposite of what is true, and expressed a viewpoint that far too many people hold - that the only "legitimate" rape is violent rape. (See also: Todd Akin). That is far over the line of expressing one's thoughts poorly. If he wants to comment revising his post I'll gladly give him the benefit of the doubt. I'm not angry with him, but his viewpoint is, as I've mentioned, fucking disgusting.
Not to mention he essentially implied that if you get a girl too drunk to consent and then fuck her, he'll give you a high-five.
|
On August 24 2012 01:49 Crushinator wrote:Show nested quote +On August 24 2012 01:43 Tao367 wrote:On August 24 2012 01:40 ComaDose wrote:On August 24 2012 01:38 Tao367 wrote:On August 24 2012 01:29 ComaDose wrote:On August 24 2012 01:26 Tao367 wrote:On August 24 2012 01:17 ComaDose wrote:On August 24 2012 00:53 Tao367 wrote:On August 24 2012 00:50 KwarK wrote:On August 24 2012 00:48 Tao367 wrote:
[quote]
That article you quoted there is extremely biased.
[quote]
95% of all female rape cases are taken seriously (at the very minimum). You always hear about rape victims on chat shows etc, how they dealt with it and got the support they needed. Male rape victims are basically never taken seriously? When was the last time you heard about a male rape victim anywhere. Most male rape victims don't even report the rape, so they can't talk about female rape needing to be taken more seriously. Vast majority of female rape cases aren't even reported, same as male. People in power typically buy into the same "asking for it" myths that much of the rest of society, particularly older generations, buy into. There was a US congressman failing to take it seriously not so long ago (Todd Akin), I'm not sure how you can argue that people in power get it. It's still a much larger proportion of rapes that are reported though. All I'm saying is that in terms of being taken seriously, women have nothing to complain about compared to males. source please? cause I'm almost positive your making things up. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_statisticsfirst google result. did you try that? I am furious with you and disgusted with your ignorance I'm having difficulty deciding where to start. First I'm going to ask you if you are legitimately feeling oppressed as a male in our society. Do you understand the degree of privilege you are entitled to by your penis? Do you acknowledge that the fact that assuming your heteronormitive, born to the sex that matches the gender you choose to represent and strait gives you increadable advantages everyday and from everyone? Do you even know what that means? Second I'm going to ask you why you think all rape cases are taken seriously. Have you been raped? Have you reported your rape to the police? Do you know anyone who has? I have heard testimonies from many people who have been raped and reported it to the police. Do you know what the slut walk stands for? Listen to their speakers. People who have actually been through what your trying to talk about. Women who are raped are often asked. was it your boyfriend? were you in his appartment? were you dressed provocatively? were you drinking? and if you don't understand why all these questions are victim blaming and irrelivant then try to culture yourself before spewing ignorant stuff into this thread that makes me lose faith in society. - male-female rape is the most common rape by an order of hundreds - (1995), sexual violence, and rape in particular, is considered the most under-reported violent crime - new laws have recently been introduce to have females lead rape cases due to how many were not taken seriously. basically everything you said is wrong. and your wrong. and your view is damaging to women in society. the vast majority is not reported women have way more to complain about then men about rape not being taken seriously smarten up It appears I've somehow made you mad. At no point have I said men have more to lose from being raped or anything like that. I simply said, female to male rape is more common than you think, according to wiki (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_by_gender):
However, male victims of sexual abuse by females[23] often face social, political, and legal double standards.[24] While gender-neutral laws have combated the older perception that rape never occurs to men,[25] and other laws have eliminated the term altogether,[26] the double standards still remain.
That's all I've said.
The U.S. Bureau of Justice Statistics (1997) estimated that 91% of United States rape victims were female and 9% were male, with 99% of the offenders being male and 1% of the offenders being female.[1]
I have not denied the quoted fact. I have said however, that a larger proportion of women report being raped by a man than men report being raped by a woman. NO! YOU SAID: It's still a much larger proportion of rapes that are reported though. All I'm saying is that in terms of being taken seriously, women have nothing to complain about compared to males. which has 2 points. both of which are wrong! No. You may be misunderstanding me. I'm saying a larger % of female rape victims report their rape than the % of male rape victims. According to the Stern Review, the victim is male in around 8% of all recorded rape cases. The unrecorded figure is thought to be far higher.
The proportion of men who go on to report sexual assault is extremely low and the number of victims greater than the government or media coverage would suggest.
The British Crime Survey 2001/2 reported that while 4.2% of women and 4.2% of men said they had been victims of domestic violence in the past year, only 19% of men went on to report it compared with 81% of women.
you actually willing to admit you said All I'm saying is that in terms of being taken seriously, women have nothing to complain about compared to males. and you standing by it?  I think you have come into a conversation that was already progress, and have taken my comment to mean something without context. We were arguing about the political, social and culultral issues and expectations regarding gender in rape cases at the time. Males face double standards, and almost bullying when getting raped by a woman, whereas the women is "brave" for reporting it. That's why a lower proportion of males report it. Yes I can admit said that. Why wouldn't I? From Wikipedia: U.S. Bureau of Justice Statistics states that 91% of rape victims are female and 9% are male, and 99% of rapists are male. I know its been constantly been brought up that females raping males is a real problem, but I have some genuine difficulty percieving it as a problem anywhere close in magnitude to male-to-female rape
My argument to that would be that Drunk driving kills more people than terrorism ever has (or will) but both should be effectively dealt with. I don't think magnitude should negate responsibility. For instance, that number is so large becasue how many men are going to say "I got so drunk last night that this girl asked me for sex and I don't even remember what happened" and go to court over rape charges?
The number is skewed because of the culture we live in, "rape culture" might exist but so does a culture begging for equality while negating its fundamental principle by not creating equal rights and teaching the same values.
Do I think rape is wrong? Fuck yah, I also believe some rape victims were stupid in the way they presented themselves (walking down a dark alley at 2 am) the worlds a bad place but is it their fault? Technically no, I'd never say she should not get justice but she was an idiot for doing that just like I would not feel as bad if a multi million dollar man went into the same dark alley and got mugged.
So T.T you can call me a rape culture participator if that means that I can see some blame in the victims for how they present themselves or where they go. Bad people are everywhere, it's best to start acknowledging that fact and protecting yourself to it. I guess my stance is highly reflective of my high school chemistry teacher who was talking about a girl named Amber Kirwan who was raped and murdered near my house actually after a night at a club called Dooly's. He went on to say that if it was his child he would have tortured the rapist alive but felt guilty that he never taught his daughter how to protect herself in public as this girl was taken when walking down a dark alley piss loaded, he went on to allude that it was partially her fault in placing herself into the position and warned everyone in class to start taking life more seriously.
|
United States41983 Posts
On August 24 2012 02:42 NeMeSiS3 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 24 2012 01:49 Crushinator wrote:On August 24 2012 01:43 Tao367 wrote:On August 24 2012 01:40 ComaDose wrote:On August 24 2012 01:38 Tao367 wrote:On August 24 2012 01:29 ComaDose wrote:On August 24 2012 01:26 Tao367 wrote:On August 24 2012 01:17 ComaDose wrote:On August 24 2012 00:53 Tao367 wrote:On August 24 2012 00:50 KwarK wrote:
[quote]
Vast majority of female rape cases aren't even reported, same as male. People in power typically buy into the same "asking for it" myths that much of the rest of society, particularly older generations, buy into. There was a US congressman failing to take it seriously not so long ago (Todd Akin), I'm not sure how you can argue that people in power get it. It's still a much larger proportion of rapes that are reported though. All I'm saying is that in terms of being taken seriously, women have nothing to complain about compared to males. source please? cause I'm almost positive your making things up. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_statisticsfirst google result. did you try that? I am furious with you and disgusted with your ignorance I'm having difficulty deciding where to start. First I'm going to ask you if you are legitimately feeling oppressed as a male in our society. Do you understand the degree of privilege you are entitled to by your penis? Do you acknowledge that the fact that assuming your heteronormitive, born to the sex that matches the gender you choose to represent and strait gives you increadable advantages everyday and from everyone? Do you even know what that means? Second I'm going to ask you why you think all rape cases are taken seriously. Have you been raped? Have you reported your rape to the police? Do you know anyone who has? I have heard testimonies from many people who have been raped and reported it to the police. Do you know what the slut walk stands for? Listen to their speakers. People who have actually been through what your trying to talk about. Women who are raped are often asked. was it your boyfriend? were you in his appartment? were you dressed provocatively? were you drinking? and if you don't understand why all these questions are victim blaming and irrelivant then try to culture yourself before spewing ignorant stuff into this thread that makes me lose faith in society. - male-female rape is the most common rape by an order of hundreds - (1995), sexual violence, and rape in particular, is considered the most under-reported violent crime - new laws have recently been introduce to have females lead rape cases due to how many were not taken seriously. basically everything you said is wrong. and your wrong. and your view is damaging to women in society. the vast majority is not reported women have way more to complain about then men about rape not being taken seriously smarten up It appears I've somehow made you mad. At no point have I said men have more to lose from being raped or anything like that. I simply said, female to male rape is more common than you think, according to wiki (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_by_gender):
However, male victims of sexual abuse by females[23] often face social, political, and legal double standards.[24] While gender-neutral laws have combated the older perception that rape never occurs to men,[25] and other laws have eliminated the term altogether,[26] the double standards still remain.
That's all I've said.
The U.S. Bureau of Justice Statistics (1997) estimated that 91% of United States rape victims were female and 9% were male, with 99% of the offenders being male and 1% of the offenders being female.[1]
I have not denied the quoted fact. I have said however, that a larger proportion of women report being raped by a man than men report being raped by a woman. NO! YOU SAID: It's still a much larger proportion of rapes that are reported though. All I'm saying is that in terms of being taken seriously, women have nothing to complain about compared to males. which has 2 points. both of which are wrong! No. You may be misunderstanding me. I'm saying a larger % of female rape victims report their rape than the % of male rape victims. According to the Stern Review, the victim is male in around 8% of all recorded rape cases. The unrecorded figure is thought to be far higher.
The proportion of men who go on to report sexual assault is extremely low and the number of victims greater than the government or media coverage would suggest.
The British Crime Survey 2001/2 reported that while 4.2% of women and 4.2% of men said they had been victims of domestic violence in the past year, only 19% of men went on to report it compared with 81% of women.
you actually willing to admit you said All I'm saying is that in terms of being taken seriously, women have nothing to complain about compared to males. and you standing by it? I think you have come into a conversation that was already progress, and have taken my comment to mean something without context. We were arguing about the political, social and culultral issues and expectations regarding gender in rape cases at the time. Males face double standards, and almost bullying when getting raped by a woman, whereas the women is "brave" for reporting it. That's why a lower proportion of males report it. Yes I can admit said that. Why wouldn't I? From Wikipedia: U.S. Bureau of Justice Statistics states that 91% of rape victims are female and 9% are male, and 99% of rapists are male. I know its been constantly been brought up that females raping males is a real problem, but I have some genuine difficulty percieving it as a problem anywhere close in magnitude to male-to-female rape My argument to that would be that Drunk driving kills more people than terrorism ever has (or will) but both should be effectively dealt with. I don't think magnitude should negate responsibility. For instance, that number is so large becasue how many men are going to say "I got so drunk last night that this girl asked me for sex and I don't even remember what happened" and go to court over rape charges? The number is skewed because of the culture we live in, "rape culture" might exist but so does a culture begging for equality while negating its fundamental principle by not creating equal rights and teaching the same values. Do I think rape is wrong? Fuck yah, I also believe some rape victims were stupid in the way they presented themselves (walking down a dark alley at 2 am) the worlds a bad place but is it their fault? Technically no, I'd never say she should not get justice but she was an idiot for doing that just like I would not feel as bad if a multi million dollar man went into the same dark alley and got mugged. So T.T you can call me a rape culture participator if that means that I can see some blame in the victims for how they present themselves or where they go. Bad people are everywhere, it's best to start acknowledging that fact and protecting yourself to it. I guess my stance is highly reflective of my high school chemistry teacher who was talking about a girl named Amber Kirwan who was raped and murdered near my house actually after a night at a club called Dooly's. He went on to say that if it was his child he would have tortured the rapist alive but felt guilty that he never taught his daughter how to protect herself in public as this girl was taken when walking down a dark alley piss loaded, he went on to allude that it was partially her fault in placing herself into the position and warned everyone in class to start taking life more seriously.
Have you ever wondered why lawyers drag the sexual history of rape victims into court or bring up what they were wearing etc, even though none of that has any relevance to whether or not consent was given? It's because people like you buy into this "she didn't take appropriate steps to stop herself getting raped" bullshit and then rapists who don't even dispute it get found not guilty. Rapists evade justice because lawyers keep doing it because jurors keep accepting it because it is socially acceptable to blame women for allowing rape to happen by going outside. It's absolutely disgusting.
Furthermore you're buying into the myth that rape is something that is perpetrated by a stranger in a dark alley, it's usually not. The appropriate steps a woman should take to avoid rape is avoid being in a room with a rapist. The logical way to do that, given about 6% of college students will admit to being rapists, is simply not to leave the house.
|
"Rape" is the charge you get for leaking secret government documents to the internet, because if you say "This man is wanted for treason" no one cares, but if you say "This man is raping your daughters", then the community will believe it and be all up in arms to catch him, because let's be honest... nobody likes a rapist.
|
On August 24 2012 02:42 NeMeSiS3 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 24 2012 01:49 Crushinator wrote:On August 24 2012 01:43 Tao367 wrote:On August 24 2012 01:40 ComaDose wrote:On August 24 2012 01:38 Tao367 wrote:On August 24 2012 01:29 ComaDose wrote:On August 24 2012 01:26 Tao367 wrote:On August 24 2012 01:17 ComaDose wrote:On August 24 2012 00:53 Tao367 wrote:On August 24 2012 00:50 KwarK wrote:
[quote]
Vast majority of female rape cases aren't even reported, same as male. People in power typically buy into the same "asking for it" myths that much of the rest of society, particularly older generations, buy into. There was a US congressman failing to take it seriously not so long ago (Todd Akin), I'm not sure how you can argue that people in power get it. It's still a much larger proportion of rapes that are reported though. All I'm saying is that in terms of being taken seriously, women have nothing to complain about compared to males. source please? cause I'm almost positive your making things up. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_statisticsfirst google result. did you try that? I am furious with you and disgusted with your ignorance I'm having difficulty deciding where to start. First I'm going to ask you if you are legitimately feeling oppressed as a male in our society. Do you understand the degree of privilege you are entitled to by your penis? Do you acknowledge that the fact that assuming your heteronormitive, born to the sex that matches the gender you choose to represent and strait gives you increadable advantages everyday and from everyone? Do you even know what that means? Second I'm going to ask you why you think all rape cases are taken seriously. Have you been raped? Have you reported your rape to the police? Do you know anyone who has? I have heard testimonies from many people who have been raped and reported it to the police. Do you know what the slut walk stands for? Listen to their speakers. People who have actually been through what your trying to talk about. Women who are raped are often asked. was it your boyfriend? were you in his appartment? were you dressed provocatively? were you drinking? and if you don't understand why all these questions are victim blaming and irrelivant then try to culture yourself before spewing ignorant stuff into this thread that makes me lose faith in society. - male-female rape is the most common rape by an order of hundreds - (1995), sexual violence, and rape in particular, is considered the most under-reported violent crime - new laws have recently been introduce to have females lead rape cases due to how many were not taken seriously. basically everything you said is wrong. and your wrong. and your view is damaging to women in society. the vast majority is not reported women have way more to complain about then men about rape not being taken seriously smarten up It appears I've somehow made you mad. At no point have I said men have more to lose from being raped or anything like that. I simply said, female to male rape is more common than you think, according to wiki (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_by_gender):
However, male victims of sexual abuse by females[23] often face social, political, and legal double standards.[24] While gender-neutral laws have combated the older perception that rape never occurs to men,[25] and other laws have eliminated the term altogether,[26] the double standards still remain.
That's all I've said.
The U.S. Bureau of Justice Statistics (1997) estimated that 91% of United States rape victims were female and 9% were male, with 99% of the offenders being male and 1% of the offenders being female.[1]
I have not denied the quoted fact. I have said however, that a larger proportion of women report being raped by a man than men report being raped by a woman. NO! YOU SAID: It's still a much larger proportion of rapes that are reported though. All I'm saying is that in terms of being taken seriously, women have nothing to complain about compared to males. which has 2 points. both of which are wrong! No. You may be misunderstanding me. I'm saying a larger % of female rape victims report their rape than the % of male rape victims. According to the Stern Review, the victim is male in around 8% of all recorded rape cases. The unrecorded figure is thought to be far higher.
The proportion of men who go on to report sexual assault is extremely low and the number of victims greater than the government or media coverage would suggest.
The British Crime Survey 2001/2 reported that while 4.2% of women and 4.2% of men said they had been victims of domestic violence in the past year, only 19% of men went on to report it compared with 81% of women.
you actually willing to admit you said All I'm saying is that in terms of being taken seriously, women have nothing to complain about compared to males. and you standing by it? I think you have come into a conversation that was already progress, and have taken my comment to mean something without context. We were arguing about the political, social and culultral issues and expectations regarding gender in rape cases at the time. Males face double standards, and almost bullying when getting raped by a woman, whereas the women is "brave" for reporting it. That's why a lower proportion of males report it. Yes I can admit said that. Why wouldn't I? From Wikipedia: U.S. Bureau of Justice Statistics states that 91% of rape victims are female and 9% are male, and 99% of rapists are male. I know its been constantly been brought up that females raping males is a real problem, but I have some genuine difficulty percieving it as a problem anywhere close in magnitude to male-to-female rape Do I think rape is wrong? Fuck yah, I also believe some rape victims were stupid in the way they presented themselves (walking down a dark alley at 2 am) the worlds a bad place but is it their fault? Technically no, I'd never say she should not get justice but she was an idiot for doing that just like I would not feel as bad if a multi million dollar man went into the same dark alley and got mugged.
That right there was where you lost all credibility.
It is not a mugging victim's fault that somebody mugged him. It is the fault of the person who mugged him.
It is not the fault of a rape victim that somebody raped her. It is the fault of the rapist.
You want to talk personal responsibility: The person who perpetrated the action is at fault. Always. End of story. There are no other sides to this story. There is no "well, but...she WAS being stupid." There is no "well, but...he shouldn't have been on that side of town." There is no "well, but" at all.
|
On August 24 2012 02:48 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On August 24 2012 02:42 NeMeSiS3 wrote:On August 24 2012 01:49 Crushinator wrote:On August 24 2012 01:43 Tao367 wrote:On August 24 2012 01:40 ComaDose wrote:On August 24 2012 01:38 Tao367 wrote:On August 24 2012 01:29 ComaDose wrote:On August 24 2012 01:26 Tao367 wrote:On August 24 2012 01:17 ComaDose wrote:On August 24 2012 00:53 Tao367 wrote:
[quote]
It's still a much larger proportion of rapes that are reported though. All I'm saying is that in terms of being taken seriously, women have nothing to complain about compared to males. source please? cause I'm almost positive your making things up. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_statisticsfirst google result. did you try that? I am furious with you and disgusted with your ignorance I'm having difficulty deciding where to start. First I'm going to ask you if you are legitimately feeling oppressed as a male in our society. Do you understand the degree of privilege you are entitled to by your penis? Do you acknowledge that the fact that assuming your heteronormitive, born to the sex that matches the gender you choose to represent and strait gives you increadable advantages everyday and from everyone? Do you even know what that means? Second I'm going to ask you why you think all rape cases are taken seriously. Have you been raped? Have you reported your rape to the police? Do you know anyone who has? I have heard testimonies from many people who have been raped and reported it to the police. Do you know what the slut walk stands for? Listen to their speakers. People who have actually been through what your trying to talk about. Women who are raped are often asked. was it your boyfriend? were you in his appartment? were you dressed provocatively? were you drinking? and if you don't understand why all these questions are victim blaming and irrelivant then try to culture yourself before spewing ignorant stuff into this thread that makes me lose faith in society. - male-female rape is the most common rape by an order of hundreds - (1995), sexual violence, and rape in particular, is considered the most under-reported violent crime - new laws have recently been introduce to have females lead rape cases due to how many were not taken seriously. basically everything you said is wrong. and your wrong. and your view is damaging to women in society. the vast majority is not reported women have way more to complain about then men about rape not being taken seriously smarten up It appears I've somehow made you mad. At no point have I said men have more to lose from being raped or anything like that. I simply said, female to male rape is more common than you think, according to wiki (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_by_gender):
However, male victims of sexual abuse by females[23] often face social, political, and legal double standards.[24] While gender-neutral laws have combated the older perception that rape never occurs to men,[25] and other laws have eliminated the term altogether,[26] the double standards still remain.
That's all I've said.
The U.S. Bureau of Justice Statistics (1997) estimated that 91% of United States rape victims were female and 9% were male, with 99% of the offenders being male and 1% of the offenders being female.[1]
I have not denied the quoted fact. I have said however, that a larger proportion of women report being raped by a man than men report being raped by a woman. NO! YOU SAID: It's still a much larger proportion of rapes that are reported though. All I'm saying is that in terms of being taken seriously, women have nothing to complain about compared to males. which has 2 points. both of which are wrong! No. You may be misunderstanding me. I'm saying a larger % of female rape victims report their rape than the % of male rape victims. According to the Stern Review, the victim is male in around 8% of all recorded rape cases. The unrecorded figure is thought to be far higher.
The proportion of men who go on to report sexual assault is extremely low and the number of victims greater than the government or media coverage would suggest.
The British Crime Survey 2001/2 reported that while 4.2% of women and 4.2% of men said they had been victims of domestic violence in the past year, only 19% of men went on to report it compared with 81% of women.
you actually willing to admit you said All I'm saying is that in terms of being taken seriously, women have nothing to complain about compared to males. and you standing by it? I think you have come into a conversation that was already progress, and have taken my comment to mean something without context. We were arguing about the political, social and culultral issues and expectations regarding gender in rape cases at the time. Males face double standards, and almost bullying when getting raped by a woman, whereas the women is "brave" for reporting it. That's why a lower proportion of males report it. Yes I can admit said that. Why wouldn't I? From Wikipedia: U.S. Bureau of Justice Statistics states that 91% of rape victims are female and 9% are male, and 99% of rapists are male. I know its been constantly been brought up that females raping males is a real problem, but I have some genuine difficulty percieving it as a problem anywhere close in magnitude to male-to-female rape My argument to that would be that Drunk driving kills more people than terrorism ever has (or will) but both should be effectively dealt with. I don't think magnitude should negate responsibility. For instance, that number is so large becasue how many men are going to say "I got so drunk last night that this girl asked me for sex and I don't even remember what happened" and go to court over rape charges? The number is skewed because of the culture we live in, "rape culture" might exist but so does a culture begging for equality while negating its fundamental principle by not creating equal rights and teaching the same values. Do I think rape is wrong? Fuck yah, I also believe some rape victims were stupid in the way they presented themselves (walking down a dark alley at 2 am) the worlds a bad place but is it their fault? Technically no, I'd never say she should not get justice but she was an idiot for doing that just like I would not feel as bad if a multi million dollar man went into the same dark alley and got mugged. So T.T you can call me a rape culture participator if that means that I can see some blame in the victims for how they present themselves or where they go. Bad people are everywhere, it's best to start acknowledging that fact and protecting yourself to it. I guess my stance is highly reflective of my high school chemistry teacher who was talking about a girl named Amber Kirwan who was raped and murdered near my house actually after a night at a club called Dooly's. He went on to say that if it was his child he would have tortured the rapist alive but felt guilty that he never taught his daughter how to protect herself in public as this girl was taken when walking down a dark alley piss loaded, he went on to allude that it was partially her fault in placing herself into the position and warned everyone in class to start taking life more seriously. Have you ever wondered why lawyers drag the sexual history of rape victims into court or bring up what they were wearing etc, even though none of that has any relevance to whether or not consent was given? It's because people like you buy into this "she didn't take appropriate steps to stop herself getting raped" bullshit and then rapists who don't even dispute it get found not guilty. Rapists evade justice because lawyers keep doing it because jurors keep accepting it because it is socially acceptable to blame women for allowing rape to happen by going outside. It's absolutely disgusting.
They bring up the sexual history of the ALLEGED rape victim in court as evidence that maybe the person actually gave consent. That's the defense's job, right? To try to prove that the defendant was in fact having sex with a consenting adult?
If it were up to you, I'm guessing all the rape cases would immediately go in the plaintiff's favor regardless of actual events.
|
On August 24 2012 02:42 NeMeSiS3 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 24 2012 01:49 Crushinator wrote:On August 24 2012 01:43 Tao367 wrote:On August 24 2012 01:40 ComaDose wrote:On August 24 2012 01:38 Tao367 wrote:On August 24 2012 01:29 ComaDose wrote:On August 24 2012 01:26 Tao367 wrote:On August 24 2012 01:17 ComaDose wrote:On August 24 2012 00:53 Tao367 wrote:On August 24 2012 00:50 KwarK wrote:
[quote]
Vast majority of female rape cases aren't even reported, same as male. People in power typically buy into the same "asking for it" myths that much of the rest of society, particularly older generations, buy into. There was a US congressman failing to take it seriously not so long ago (Todd Akin), I'm not sure how you can argue that people in power get it. It's still a much larger proportion of rapes that are reported though. All I'm saying is that in terms of being taken seriously, women have nothing to complain about compared to males. source please? cause I'm almost positive your making things up. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_statisticsfirst google result. did you try that? I am furious with you and disgusted with your ignorance I'm having difficulty deciding where to start. First I'm going to ask you if you are legitimately feeling oppressed as a male in our society. Do you understand the degree of privilege you are entitled to by your penis? Do you acknowledge that the fact that assuming your heteronormitive, born to the sex that matches the gender you choose to represent and strait gives you increadable advantages everyday and from everyone? Do you even know what that means? Second I'm going to ask you why you think all rape cases are taken seriously. Have you been raped? Have you reported your rape to the police? Do you know anyone who has? I have heard testimonies from many people who have been raped and reported it to the police. Do you know what the slut walk stands for? Listen to their speakers. People who have actually been through what your trying to talk about. Women who are raped are often asked. was it your boyfriend? were you in his appartment? were you dressed provocatively? were you drinking? and if you don't understand why all these questions are victim blaming and irrelivant then try to culture yourself before spewing ignorant stuff into this thread that makes me lose faith in society. - male-female rape is the most common rape by an order of hundreds - (1995), sexual violence, and rape in particular, is considered the most under-reported violent crime - new laws have recently been introduce to have females lead rape cases due to how many were not taken seriously. basically everything you said is wrong. and your wrong. and your view is damaging to women in society. the vast majority is not reported women have way more to complain about then men about rape not being taken seriously smarten up It appears I've somehow made you mad. At no point have I said men have more to lose from being raped or anything like that. I simply said, female to male rape is more common than you think, according to wiki (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_by_gender):
However, male victims of sexual abuse by females[23] often face social, political, and legal double standards.[24] While gender-neutral laws have combated the older perception that rape never occurs to men,[25] and other laws have eliminated the term altogether,[26] the double standards still remain.
That's all I've said.
The U.S. Bureau of Justice Statistics (1997) estimated that 91% of United States rape victims were female and 9% were male, with 99% of the offenders being male and 1% of the offenders being female.[1]
I have not denied the quoted fact. I have said however, that a larger proportion of women report being raped by a man than men report being raped by a woman. NO! YOU SAID: It's still a much larger proportion of rapes that are reported though. All I'm saying is that in terms of being taken seriously, women have nothing to complain about compared to males. which has 2 points. both of which are wrong! No. You may be misunderstanding me. I'm saying a larger % of female rape victims report their rape than the % of male rape victims. According to the Stern Review, the victim is male in around 8% of all recorded rape cases. The unrecorded figure is thought to be far higher.
The proportion of men who go on to report sexual assault is extremely low and the number of victims greater than the government or media coverage would suggest.
The British Crime Survey 2001/2 reported that while 4.2% of women and 4.2% of men said they had been victims of domestic violence in the past year, only 19% of men went on to report it compared with 81% of women.
you actually willing to admit you said All I'm saying is that in terms of being taken seriously, women have nothing to complain about compared to males. and you standing by it? I think you have come into a conversation that was already progress, and have taken my comment to mean something without context. We were arguing about the political, social and culultral issues and expectations regarding gender in rape cases at the time. Males face double standards, and almost bullying when getting raped by a woman, whereas the women is "brave" for reporting it. That's why a lower proportion of males report it. Yes I can admit said that. Why wouldn't I? From Wikipedia: U.S. Bureau of Justice Statistics states that 91% of rape victims are female and 9% are male, and 99% of rapists are male. I know its been constantly been brought up that females raping males is a real problem, but I have some genuine difficulty percieving it as a problem anywhere close in magnitude to male-to-female rape My argument to that would be that Drunk driving kills more people than terrorism ever has (or will) but both should be effectively dealt with. I don't think magnitude should negate responsibility. For instance, that number is so large becasue how many men are going to say "I got so drunk last night that this girl asked me for sex and I don't even remember what happened" and go to court over rape charges? The number is skewed because of the culture we live in, "rape culture" might exist but so does a culture begging for equality while negating its fundamental principle by not creating equal rights and teaching the same values. Do I think rape is wrong? Fuck yah, I also believe some rape victims were stupid in the way they presented themselves (walking down a dark alley at 2 am) the worlds a bad place but is it their fault? Technically no, I'd never say she should not get justice but she was an idiot for doing that just like I would not feel as bad if a multi million dollar man went into the same dark alley and got mugged. So T.T you can call me a rape culture participator if that means that I can see some blame in the victims for how they present themselves or where they go. Bad people are everywhere, it's best to start acknowledging that fact and protecting yourself to it. I guess my stance is highly reflective of my high school chemistry teacher who was talking about a girl named Amber Kirwan who was raped and murdered near my house actually after a night at a club called Dooly's. He went on to say that if it was his child he would have tortured the rapist alive but felt guilty that he never taught his daughter how to protect herself in public as this girl was taken when walking down a dark alley piss loaded, he went on to allude that it was partially her fault in placing herself into the position and warned everyone in class to start taking life more seriously.
Man: Hello, I'd like to report a mugging.
Officer: A mugging, eh? Where did it take place?
Man: I was walking by 21st and Dundritch Street and a man pulled out a gun and said, "Give me all your money."
Officer: And did you?
Man: Yes, I co-operated.
Officer: So you willingly gave the man your money without fighting back, calling for help or trying to escape?
Man: Well, yes, but I was terrified. I thought he was going to kill me!
Officer: Mmm. But you did co-operate with him. And I've been informed that you're quite a philanthropist, too.
Man: I give to charity, yes.
Officer: So you like to give money away. You make a habit of giving money away.
Man: What does that have to do with this situation?
Officer: You knowingly walked down Dundritch Street in your suit when everyone knows you like to give away money, and then you didn't fight back. It sounds like you gave money to someone, but now you're having after-donation regret. Tell me, do you really want to ruin his life because of your mistake?
Man: This is ridiculous!
Officer: This is a rape analogy. This is what women face every single day when they try to bring their rapists to justice.
|
On August 24 2012 02:52 Djzapz wrote:Show nested quote +On August 24 2012 02:48 KwarK wrote:On August 24 2012 02:42 NeMeSiS3 wrote:On August 24 2012 01:49 Crushinator wrote:On August 24 2012 01:43 Tao367 wrote:On August 24 2012 01:40 ComaDose wrote:On August 24 2012 01:38 Tao367 wrote:On August 24 2012 01:29 ComaDose wrote:On August 24 2012 01:26 Tao367 wrote:On August 24 2012 01:17 ComaDose wrote:[quote] source please? cause I'm almost positive your making things up. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_statisticsfirst google result. did you try that? I am furious with you and disgusted with your ignorance I'm having difficulty deciding where to start. First I'm going to ask you if you are legitimately feeling oppressed as a male in our society. Do you understand the degree of privilege you are entitled to by your penis? Do you acknowledge that the fact that assuming your heteronormitive, born to the sex that matches the gender you choose to represent and strait gives you increadable advantages everyday and from everyone? Do you even know what that means? Second I'm going to ask you why you think all rape cases are taken seriously. Have you been raped? Have you reported your rape to the police? Do you know anyone who has? I have heard testimonies from many people who have been raped and reported it to the police. Do you know what the slut walk stands for? Listen to their speakers. People who have actually been through what your trying to talk about. Women who are raped are often asked. was it your boyfriend? were you in his appartment? were you dressed provocatively? were you drinking? and if you don't understand why all these questions are victim blaming and irrelivant then try to culture yourself before spewing ignorant stuff into this thread that makes me lose faith in society. - male-female rape is the most common rape by an order of hundreds - (1995), sexual violence, and rape in particular, is considered the most under-reported violent crime - new laws have recently been introduce to have females lead rape cases due to how many were not taken seriously. basically everything you said is wrong. and your wrong. and your view is damaging to women in society. the vast majority is not reported women have way more to complain about then men about rape not being taken seriously smarten up It appears I've somehow made you mad. At no point have I said men have more to lose from being raped or anything like that. I simply said, female to male rape is more common than you think, according to wiki (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_by_gender):
However, male victims of sexual abuse by females[23] often face social, political, and legal double standards.[24] While gender-neutral laws have combated the older perception that rape never occurs to men,[25] and other laws have eliminated the term altogether,[26] the double standards still remain.
That's all I've said.
The U.S. Bureau of Justice Statistics (1997) estimated that 91% of United States rape victims were female and 9% were male, with 99% of the offenders being male and 1% of the offenders being female.[1]
I have not denied the quoted fact. I have said however, that a larger proportion of women report being raped by a man than men report being raped by a woman. NO! YOU SAID: It's still a much larger proportion of rapes that are reported though. All I'm saying is that in terms of being taken seriously, women have nothing to complain about compared to males. which has 2 points. both of which are wrong! No. You may be misunderstanding me. I'm saying a larger % of female rape victims report their rape than the % of male rape victims. According to the Stern Review, the victim is male in around 8% of all recorded rape cases. The unrecorded figure is thought to be far higher.
The proportion of men who go on to report sexual assault is extremely low and the number of victims greater than the government or media coverage would suggest.
The British Crime Survey 2001/2 reported that while 4.2% of women and 4.2% of men said they had been victims of domestic violence in the past year, only 19% of men went on to report it compared with 81% of women.
you actually willing to admit you said All I'm saying is that in terms of being taken seriously, women have nothing to complain about compared to males. and you standing by it? I think you have come into a conversation that was already progress, and have taken my comment to mean something without context. We were arguing about the political, social and culultral issues and expectations regarding gender in rape cases at the time. Males face double standards, and almost bullying when getting raped by a woman, whereas the women is "brave" for reporting it. That's why a lower proportion of males report it. Yes I can admit said that. Why wouldn't I? From Wikipedia: U.S. Bureau of Justice Statistics states that 91% of rape victims are female and 9% are male, and 99% of rapists are male. I know its been constantly been brought up that females raping males is a real problem, but I have some genuine difficulty percieving it as a problem anywhere close in magnitude to male-to-female rape My argument to that would be that Drunk driving kills more people than terrorism ever has (or will) but both should be effectively dealt with. I don't think magnitude should negate responsibility. For instance, that number is so large becasue how many men are going to say "I got so drunk last night that this girl asked me for sex and I don't even remember what happened" and go to court over rape charges? The number is skewed because of the culture we live in, "rape culture" might exist but so does a culture begging for equality while negating its fundamental principle by not creating equal rights and teaching the same values. Do I think rape is wrong? Fuck yah, I also believe some rape victims were stupid in the way they presented themselves (walking down a dark alley at 2 am) the worlds a bad place but is it their fault? Technically no, I'd never say she should not get justice but she was an idiot for doing that just like I would not feel as bad if a multi million dollar man went into the same dark alley and got mugged. So T.T you can call me a rape culture participator if that means that I can see some blame in the victims for how they present themselves or where they go. Bad people are everywhere, it's best to start acknowledging that fact and protecting yourself to it. I guess my stance is highly reflective of my high school chemistry teacher who was talking about a girl named Amber Kirwan who was raped and murdered near my house actually after a night at a club called Dooly's. He went on to say that if it was his child he would have tortured the rapist alive but felt guilty that he never taught his daughter how to protect herself in public as this girl was taken when walking down a dark alley piss loaded, he went on to allude that it was partially her fault in placing herself into the position and warned everyone in class to start taking life more seriously. Have you ever wondered why lawyers drag the sexual history of rape victims into court or bring up what they were wearing etc, even though none of that has any relevance to whether or not consent was given? It's because people like you buy into this "she didn't take appropriate steps to stop herself getting raped" bullshit and then rapists who don't even dispute it get found not guilty. Rapists evade justice because lawyers keep doing it because jurors keep accepting it because it is socially acceptable to blame women for allowing rape to happen by going outside. It's absolutely disgusting. They bring up the sexual history of the ALLEGED rape victim in court as evidence that maybe the person actually gave consent. That's the defense's job, right? To try to prove that the defendant was in fact having sex with a consenting adult? If it were up to you, I'm guessing all the rape cases would immediately go in the plaintiff's favor regardless of actual events.
Why would a person's sexual history matter in a rape case? It doesn't matter if the woman had had sex with every man in a 3 mile radius; if she said no that night, she said no. Literally the only thing that actually matters is if consent was given, and if she says consent wasn't given, and nobody can prove that it was in fact given, then she wins the case. That's the only way this can work.
|
United States41983 Posts
On August 24 2012 02:52 Djzapz wrote:Show nested quote +On August 24 2012 02:48 KwarK wrote:On August 24 2012 02:42 NeMeSiS3 wrote:On August 24 2012 01:49 Crushinator wrote:On August 24 2012 01:43 Tao367 wrote:On August 24 2012 01:40 ComaDose wrote:On August 24 2012 01:38 Tao367 wrote:On August 24 2012 01:29 ComaDose wrote:On August 24 2012 01:26 Tao367 wrote:On August 24 2012 01:17 ComaDose wrote:[quote] source please? cause I'm almost positive your making things up. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_statisticsfirst google result. did you try that? I am furious with you and disgusted with your ignorance I'm having difficulty deciding where to start. First I'm going to ask you if you are legitimately feeling oppressed as a male in our society. Do you understand the degree of privilege you are entitled to by your penis? Do you acknowledge that the fact that assuming your heteronormitive, born to the sex that matches the gender you choose to represent and strait gives you increadable advantages everyday and from everyone? Do you even know what that means? Second I'm going to ask you why you think all rape cases are taken seriously. Have you been raped? Have you reported your rape to the police? Do you know anyone who has? I have heard testimonies from many people who have been raped and reported it to the police. Do you know what the slut walk stands for? Listen to their speakers. People who have actually been through what your trying to talk about. Women who are raped are often asked. was it your boyfriend? were you in his appartment? were you dressed provocatively? were you drinking? and if you don't understand why all these questions are victim blaming and irrelivant then try to culture yourself before spewing ignorant stuff into this thread that makes me lose faith in society. - male-female rape is the most common rape by an order of hundreds - (1995), sexual violence, and rape in particular, is considered the most under-reported violent crime - new laws have recently been introduce to have females lead rape cases due to how many were not taken seriously. basically everything you said is wrong. and your wrong. and your view is damaging to women in society. the vast majority is not reported women have way more to complain about then men about rape not being taken seriously smarten up It appears I've somehow made you mad. At no point have I said men have more to lose from being raped or anything like that. I simply said, female to male rape is more common than you think, according to wiki (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_by_gender):
However, male victims of sexual abuse by females[23] often face social, political, and legal double standards.[24] While gender-neutral laws have combated the older perception that rape never occurs to men,[25] and other laws have eliminated the term altogether,[26] the double standards still remain.
That's all I've said.
The U.S. Bureau of Justice Statistics (1997) estimated that 91% of United States rape victims were female and 9% were male, with 99% of the offenders being male and 1% of the offenders being female.[1]
I have not denied the quoted fact. I have said however, that a larger proportion of women report being raped by a man than men report being raped by a woman. NO! YOU SAID: It's still a much larger proportion of rapes that are reported though. All I'm saying is that in terms of being taken seriously, women have nothing to complain about compared to males. which has 2 points. both of which are wrong! No. You may be misunderstanding me. I'm saying a larger % of female rape victims report their rape than the % of male rape victims. According to the Stern Review, the victim is male in around 8% of all recorded rape cases. The unrecorded figure is thought to be far higher.
The proportion of men who go on to report sexual assault is extremely low and the number of victims greater than the government or media coverage would suggest.
The British Crime Survey 2001/2 reported that while 4.2% of women and 4.2% of men said they had been victims of domestic violence in the past year, only 19% of men went on to report it compared with 81% of women.
you actually willing to admit you said All I'm saying is that in terms of being taken seriously, women have nothing to complain about compared to males. and you standing by it? I think you have come into a conversation that was already progress, and have taken my comment to mean something without context. We were arguing about the political, social and culultral issues and expectations regarding gender in rape cases at the time. Males face double standards, and almost bullying when getting raped by a woman, whereas the women is "brave" for reporting it. That's why a lower proportion of males report it. Yes I can admit said that. Why wouldn't I? From Wikipedia: U.S. Bureau of Justice Statistics states that 91% of rape victims are female and 9% are male, and 99% of rapists are male. I know its been constantly been brought up that females raping males is a real problem, but I have some genuine difficulty percieving it as a problem anywhere close in magnitude to male-to-female rape My argument to that would be that Drunk driving kills more people than terrorism ever has (or will) but both should be effectively dealt with. I don't think magnitude should negate responsibility. For instance, that number is so large becasue how many men are going to say "I got so drunk last night that this girl asked me for sex and I don't even remember what happened" and go to court over rape charges? The number is skewed because of the culture we live in, "rape culture" might exist but so does a culture begging for equality while negating its fundamental principle by not creating equal rights and teaching the same values. Do I think rape is wrong? Fuck yah, I also believe some rape victims were stupid in the way they presented themselves (walking down a dark alley at 2 am) the worlds a bad place but is it their fault? Technically no, I'd never say she should not get justice but she was an idiot for doing that just like I would not feel as bad if a multi million dollar man went into the same dark alley and got mugged. So T.T you can call me a rape culture participator if that means that I can see some blame in the victims for how they present themselves or where they go. Bad people are everywhere, it's best to start acknowledging that fact and protecting yourself to it. I guess my stance is highly reflective of my high school chemistry teacher who was talking about a girl named Amber Kirwan who was raped and murdered near my house actually after a night at a club called Dooly's. He went on to say that if it was his child he would have tortured the rapist alive but felt guilty that he never taught his daughter how to protect herself in public as this girl was taken when walking down a dark alley piss loaded, he went on to allude that it was partially her fault in placing herself into the position and warned everyone in class to start taking life more seriously. Have you ever wondered why lawyers drag the sexual history of rape victims into court or bring up what they were wearing etc, even though none of that has any relevance to whether or not consent was given? It's because people like you buy into this "she didn't take appropriate steps to stop herself getting raped" bullshit and then rapists who don't even dispute it get found not guilty. Rapists evade justice because lawyers keep doing it because jurors keep accepting it because it is socially acceptable to blame women for allowing rape to happen by going outside. It's absolutely disgusting. They bring up the sexual history of the ALLEGED rape victim in court as evidence that maybe the person actually gave consent. That's the defense's job, right? To try to prove that the defendant was in fact having sex with a consenting adult? If it were up to you, I'm guessing all the rape cases would immediately go in the plaintiff's favor regardless of actual events.
No, if it were up to me I wouldn't dispense of trial by jury and simply arrest everyone and send them to prison. What kind of retarded point is that. I guess if it were up to you you'd gas the Jews (for some reason?).
It is a part of the hugely misogynistic system of blaming women for having sex and acting like they shouldn't have it and that those who do have it and enjoy it are sluts. The line of questioning that goes "have you had sex? do you enjoy sex? have you consented to sex in the past? then how are we supposed to believe that you didn't consent to sex this time when you admit to liking sex?" that completely ignores the obvious fact that people can consent to sex some of the time but not all of the time. It's a completely nonsense argument that only carries any weight when the starting assumption is that the recipient thinks all women who have sex are sluts who deserve to be raped.
|
On August 24 2012 02:56 Vega62a wrote:Show nested quote +On August 24 2012 02:52 Djzapz wrote:On August 24 2012 02:48 KwarK wrote:On August 24 2012 02:42 NeMeSiS3 wrote:On August 24 2012 01:49 Crushinator wrote:On August 24 2012 01:43 Tao367 wrote:On August 24 2012 01:40 ComaDose wrote:On August 24 2012 01:38 Tao367 wrote:On August 24 2012 01:29 ComaDose wrote:On August 24 2012 01:26 Tao367 wrote:
[quote]
It appears I've somehow made you mad. At no point have I said men have more to lose from being raped or anything like that. I simply said, female to male rape is more common than you think, according to wiki (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_by_gender):
[quote]
That's all I've said.
[quote]
I have not denied the quoted fact. I have said however, that a larger proportion of women report being raped by a man than men report being raped by a woman.
NO! YOU SAID: It's still a much larger proportion of rapes that are reported though. All I'm saying is that in terms of being taken seriously, women have nothing to complain about compared to males. which has 2 points. both of which are wrong! No. You may be misunderstanding me. I'm saying a larger % of female rape victims report their rape than the % of male rape victims. According to the Stern Review, the victim is male in around 8% of all recorded rape cases. The unrecorded figure is thought to be far higher.
The proportion of men who go on to report sexual assault is extremely low and the number of victims greater than the government or media coverage would suggest.
The British Crime Survey 2001/2 reported that while 4.2% of women and 4.2% of men said they had been victims of domestic violence in the past year, only 19% of men went on to report it compared with 81% of women.
you actually willing to admit you said All I'm saying is that in terms of being taken seriously, women have nothing to complain about compared to males. and you standing by it? I think you have come into a conversation that was already progress, and have taken my comment to mean something without context. We were arguing about the political, social and culultral issues and expectations regarding gender in rape cases at the time. Males face double standards, and almost bullying when getting raped by a woman, whereas the women is "brave" for reporting it. That's why a lower proportion of males report it. Yes I can admit said that. Why wouldn't I? From Wikipedia: U.S. Bureau of Justice Statistics states that 91% of rape victims are female and 9% are male, and 99% of rapists are male. I know its been constantly been brought up that females raping males is a real problem, but I have some genuine difficulty percieving it as a problem anywhere close in magnitude to male-to-female rape My argument to that would be that Drunk driving kills more people than terrorism ever has (or will) but both should be effectively dealt with. I don't think magnitude should negate responsibility. For instance, that number is so large becasue how many men are going to say "I got so drunk last night that this girl asked me for sex and I don't even remember what happened" and go to court over rape charges? The number is skewed because of the culture we live in, "rape culture" might exist but so does a culture begging for equality while negating its fundamental principle by not creating equal rights and teaching the same values. Do I think rape is wrong? Fuck yah, I also believe some rape victims were stupid in the way they presented themselves (walking down a dark alley at 2 am) the worlds a bad place but is it their fault? Technically no, I'd never say she should not get justice but she was an idiot for doing that just like I would not feel as bad if a multi million dollar man went into the same dark alley and got mugged. So T.T you can call me a rape culture participator if that means that I can see some blame in the victims for how they present themselves or where they go. Bad people are everywhere, it's best to start acknowledging that fact and protecting yourself to it. I guess my stance is highly reflective of my high school chemistry teacher who was talking about a girl named Amber Kirwan who was raped and murdered near my house actually after a night at a club called Dooly's. He went on to say that if it was his child he would have tortured the rapist alive but felt guilty that he never taught his daughter how to protect herself in public as this girl was taken when walking down a dark alley piss loaded, he went on to allude that it was partially her fault in placing herself into the position and warned everyone in class to start taking life more seriously. Have you ever wondered why lawyers drag the sexual history of rape victims into court or bring up what they were wearing etc, even though none of that has any relevance to whether or not consent was given? It's because people like you buy into this "she didn't take appropriate steps to stop herself getting raped" bullshit and then rapists who don't even dispute it get found not guilty. Rapists evade justice because lawyers keep doing it because jurors keep accepting it because it is socially acceptable to blame women for allowing rape to happen by going outside. It's absolutely disgusting. They bring up the sexual history of the ALLEGED rape victim in court as evidence that maybe the person actually gave consent. That's the defense's job, right? To try to prove that the defendant was in fact having sex with a consenting adult? If it were up to you, I'm guessing all the rape cases would immediately go in the plaintiff's favor regardless of actual events. Why would a person's sexual history matter in a rape case? It doesn't matter if the woman had had sex with every man in a 3 mile radius; if she said no that night, she said no. Literally the only thing that actually matters is if consent was given, and if she says consent wasn't given, and nobody can prove that it was in fact given, then she wins the case. That's the only way this can work.
Well sort of. Usually through collaboration it's more complicated than that. It's not like the rapist just says "She wanted it" and the girl says "No I didn't." There's actually a sequence of events that takes place.
The fact is that right now, all the rapist has to say is "I thought she gave consent," and the girl is constantly questioned on why her consent wasn't clear or obvious enough. It should be the other way around. Why was there any ambiguity on the behalf of the rapist on the consent? Why did the rapist think there was consent when there wasn't? These are questions that need to be asked, NOT why the girl isn't struggling enough or yelling loud enough.
|
"I'm going to stick it in."
But don't actually do it.
"Aren't you going to do it?"
"Is that what you want?"
"YES!"
Then you can continue w/o any future worries!
|
On August 24 2012 02:42 NeMeSiS3 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 24 2012 01:49 Crushinator wrote:On August 24 2012 01:43 Tao367 wrote:On August 24 2012 01:40 ComaDose wrote:On August 24 2012 01:38 Tao367 wrote:On August 24 2012 01:29 ComaDose wrote:On August 24 2012 01:26 Tao367 wrote:On August 24 2012 01:17 ComaDose wrote:On August 24 2012 00:53 Tao367 wrote:On August 24 2012 00:50 KwarK wrote:
[quote]
Vast majority of female rape cases aren't even reported, same as male. People in power typically buy into the same "asking for it" myths that much of the rest of society, particularly older generations, buy into. There was a US congressman failing to take it seriously not so long ago (Todd Akin), I'm not sure how you can argue that people in power get it. It's still a much larger proportion of rapes that are reported though. All I'm saying is that in terms of being taken seriously, women have nothing to complain about compared to males. source please? cause I'm almost positive your making things up. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_statisticsfirst google result. did you try that? I am furious with you and disgusted with your ignorance I'm having difficulty deciding where to start. First I'm going to ask you if you are legitimately feeling oppressed as a male in our society. Do you understand the degree of privilege you are entitled to by your penis? Do you acknowledge that the fact that assuming your heteronormitive, born to the sex that matches the gender you choose to represent and strait gives you increadable advantages everyday and from everyone? Do you even know what that means? Second I'm going to ask you why you think all rape cases are taken seriously. Have you been raped? Have you reported your rape to the police? Do you know anyone who has? I have heard testimonies from many people who have been raped and reported it to the police. Do you know what the slut walk stands for? Listen to their speakers. People who have actually been through what your trying to talk about. Women who are raped are often asked. was it your boyfriend? were you in his appartment? were you dressed provocatively? were you drinking? and if you don't understand why all these questions are victim blaming and irrelivant then try to culture yourself before spewing ignorant stuff into this thread that makes me lose faith in society. - male-female rape is the most common rape by an order of hundreds - (1995), sexual violence, and rape in particular, is considered the most under-reported violent crime - new laws have recently been introduce to have females lead rape cases due to how many were not taken seriously. basically everything you said is wrong. and your wrong. and your view is damaging to women in society. the vast majority is not reported women have way more to complain about then men about rape not being taken seriously smarten up It appears I've somehow made you mad. At no point have I said men have more to lose from being raped or anything like that. I simply said, female to male rape is more common than you think, according to wiki (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_by_gender):
However, male victims of sexual abuse by females[23] often face social, political, and legal double standards.[24] While gender-neutral laws have combated the older perception that rape never occurs to men,[25] and other laws have eliminated the term altogether,[26] the double standards still remain.
That's all I've said.
The U.S. Bureau of Justice Statistics (1997) estimated that 91% of United States rape victims were female and 9% were male, with 99% of the offenders being male and 1% of the offenders being female.[1]
I have not denied the quoted fact. I have said however, that a larger proportion of women report being raped by a man than men report being raped by a woman. NO! YOU SAID: It's still a much larger proportion of rapes that are reported though. All I'm saying is that in terms of being taken seriously, women have nothing to complain about compared to males. which has 2 points. both of which are wrong! No. You may be misunderstanding me. I'm saying a larger % of female rape victims report their rape than the % of male rape victims. According to the Stern Review, the victim is male in around 8% of all recorded rape cases. The unrecorded figure is thought to be far higher.
The proportion of men who go on to report sexual assault is extremely low and the number of victims greater than the government or media coverage would suggest.
The British Crime Survey 2001/2 reported that while 4.2% of women and 4.2% of men said they had been victims of domestic violence in the past year, only 19% of men went on to report it compared with 81% of women.
you actually willing to admit you said All I'm saying is that in terms of being taken seriously, women have nothing to complain about compared to males. and you standing by it? I think you have come into a conversation that was already progress, and have taken my comment to mean something without context. We were arguing about the political, social and culultral issues and expectations regarding gender in rape cases at the time. Males face double standards, and almost bullying when getting raped by a woman, whereas the women is "brave" for reporting it. That's why a lower proportion of males report it. Yes I can admit said that. Why wouldn't I? From Wikipedia: U.S. Bureau of Justice Statistics states that 91% of rape victims are female and 9% are male, and 99% of rapists are male. I know its been constantly been brought up that females raping males is a real problem, but I have some genuine difficulty percieving it as a problem anywhere close in magnitude to male-to-female rape My argument to that would be that Drunk driving kills more people than terrorism ever has (or will) but both should be effectively dealt with. I don't think magnitude should negate responsibility. For instance, that number is so large becasue how many men are going to say "I got so drunk last night that this girl asked me for sex and I don't even remember what happened" and go to court over rape charges? The number is skewed because of the culture we live in, "rape culture" might exist but so does a culture begging for equality while negating its fundamental principle by not creating equal rights and teaching the same values. Do I think rape is wrong? Fuck yah, I also believe some rape victims were stupid in the way they presented themselves (walking down a dark alley at 2 am) the worlds a bad place but is it their fault? Technically no, I'd never say she should not get justice but she was an idiot for doing that just like I would not feel as bad if a multi million dollar man went into the same dark alley and got mugged. So T.T you can call me a rape culture participator if that means that I can see some blame in the victims for how they present themselves or where they go. Bad people are everywhere, it's best to start acknowledging that fact and protecting yourself to it. I guess my stance is highly reflective of my high school chemistry teacher who was talking about a girl named Amber Kirwan who was raped and murdered near my house actually after a night at a club called Dooly's. He went on to say that if it was his child he would have tortured the rapist alive but felt guilty that he never taught his daughter how to protect herself in public as this girl was taken when walking down a dark alley piss loaded, he went on to allude that it was partially her fault in placing herself into the position and warned everyone in class to start taking life more seriously.
I just think the number of female-to-male rapes is so low that it is almost insulting to women to bring it up as a real problem. I think almost no men can claim to ever having been scared of being raped in their life. And almost no woman can claim to have NOT been scared of being sexually assaulted. Infact almost all women will be victim of some sort of sexual assault in their life. Just ask your female friends.
With regards to your terrorism vs drunk driving scenario, first of all it is unfair because the issues with terrorism are far greater than the direct loss of life. But ignoring that, I think our energy should be divided over issues proportional to the damage it causes. In case of female-to-male rape, very few shits should be given, in my honest opinion.
I am also quite disapointed at your need to include some victim blame. A drunk girl walking alone through a dark alley does not deserve the ''its your own damn fault'' attitude, after she has been raped. Bringing up her stupidity serves no purpose but to divert blame. Ofcourse there are good pieces of advise you can give to those who have not yet been raped, I just wish the sentiment of your post didn't go towards not feeling bad for people, just because they could have done more to prevent it.
|
On August 24 2012 03:00 DoubleReed wrote:Show nested quote +On August 24 2012 02:56 Vega62a wrote:On August 24 2012 02:52 Djzapz wrote:On August 24 2012 02:48 KwarK wrote:On August 24 2012 02:42 NeMeSiS3 wrote:On August 24 2012 01:49 Crushinator wrote:On August 24 2012 01:43 Tao367 wrote:On August 24 2012 01:40 ComaDose wrote:On August 24 2012 01:38 Tao367 wrote:On August 24 2012 01:29 ComaDose wrote:
[quote]
NO!
YOU SAID: [quote]
which has 2 points. both of which are wrong! No. You may be misunderstanding me. I'm saying a larger % of female rape victims report their rape than the % of male rape victims. According to the Stern Review, the victim is male in around 8% of all recorded rape cases. The unrecorded figure is thought to be far higher.
The proportion of men who go on to report sexual assault is extremely low and the number of victims greater than the government or media coverage would suggest.
The British Crime Survey 2001/2 reported that while 4.2% of women and 4.2% of men said they had been victims of domestic violence in the past year, only 19% of men went on to report it compared with 81% of women.
you actually willing to admit you said All I'm saying is that in terms of being taken seriously, women have nothing to complain about compared to males. and you standing by it? I think you have come into a conversation that was already progress, and have taken my comment to mean something without context. We were arguing about the political, social and culultral issues and expectations regarding gender in rape cases at the time. Males face double standards, and almost bullying when getting raped by a woman, whereas the women is "brave" for reporting it. That's why a lower proportion of males report it. Yes I can admit said that. Why wouldn't I? From Wikipedia: U.S. Bureau of Justice Statistics states that 91% of rape victims are female and 9% are male, and 99% of rapists are male. I know its been constantly been brought up that females raping males is a real problem, but I have some genuine difficulty percieving it as a problem anywhere close in magnitude to male-to-female rape My argument to that would be that Drunk driving kills more people than terrorism ever has (or will) but both should be effectively dealt with. I don't think magnitude should negate responsibility. For instance, that number is so large becasue how many men are going to say "I got so drunk last night that this girl asked me for sex and I don't even remember what happened" and go to court over rape charges? The number is skewed because of the culture we live in, "rape culture" might exist but so does a culture begging for equality while negating its fundamental principle by not creating equal rights and teaching the same values. Do I think rape is wrong? Fuck yah, I also believe some rape victims were stupid in the way they presented themselves (walking down a dark alley at 2 am) the worlds a bad place but is it their fault? Technically no, I'd never say she should not get justice but she was an idiot for doing that just like I would not feel as bad if a multi million dollar man went into the same dark alley and got mugged. So T.T you can call me a rape culture participator if that means that I can see some blame in the victims for how they present themselves or where they go. Bad people are everywhere, it's best to start acknowledging that fact and protecting yourself to it. I guess my stance is highly reflective of my high school chemistry teacher who was talking about a girl named Amber Kirwan who was raped and murdered near my house actually after a night at a club called Dooly's. He went on to say that if it was his child he would have tortured the rapist alive but felt guilty that he never taught his daughter how to protect herself in public as this girl was taken when walking down a dark alley piss loaded, he went on to allude that it was partially her fault in placing herself into the position and warned everyone in class to start taking life more seriously. Have you ever wondered why lawyers drag the sexual history of rape victims into court or bring up what they were wearing etc, even though none of that has any relevance to whether or not consent was given? It's because people like you buy into this "she didn't take appropriate steps to stop herself getting raped" bullshit and then rapists who don't even dispute it get found not guilty. Rapists evade justice because lawyers keep doing it because jurors keep accepting it because it is socially acceptable to blame women for allowing rape to happen by going outside. It's absolutely disgusting. They bring up the sexual history of the ALLEGED rape victim in court as evidence that maybe the person actually gave consent. That's the defense's job, right? To try to prove that the defendant was in fact having sex with a consenting adult? If it were up to you, I'm guessing all the rape cases would immediately go in the plaintiff's favor regardless of actual events. Why would a person's sexual history matter in a rape case? It doesn't matter if the woman had had sex with every man in a 3 mile radius; if she said no that night, she said no. Literally the only thing that actually matters is if consent was given, and if she says consent wasn't given, and nobody can prove that it was in fact given, then she wins the case. That's the only way this can work. Well sort of. Usually through collaboration it's more complicated than that. It's not like the rapist just says "She wanted it" and the girl says "No I didn't." There's actually a sequence of events that takes place. The fact is that right now, all the rapist has to say is "I thought she gave consent," and the girl is constantly questioned on why her consent wasn't clear or obvious enough. It should be the other way around. Why was there any ambiguity on the behalf of the rapist on the consent? Why did the rapist think there was consent when there wasn't? These are questions that need to be asked, NOT why the girl isn't struggling enough or yelling loud enough.
Certainly, that is the case, and thank you for articulating it better than I did.
I guess my point was more the basic one of, at the core of it, all that matters is whether or not consent was given and received, and the notion of "implied consent," which is the only thing that might be influenced by a defendant's sexual history, is hogwash.
|
On August 23 2012 20:34 ZergOwaR wrote:Show nested quote +
Being phyiscally forced was obviously a rape in the eyes of nearly everyone, but if a women gets naked, climbs into your bed, and then suddenly says she doesn't want to have sex, is it still a rape? Of course it is (imo anyway), but the majority of people seem to disagree on that notion.
We could make a good analog out of this. If i BBQ a boar in africa, and i promis this obviously starved individual some of it, and then deny it when it's finally done, most people would say that it's my own fault if he just steals it. Same thing goes for sex. It's a deep drive in men, it's way stronger than any drug. How can it be his fault, if the woman does some shit like that then? if a women gets naked and climbs into your bed and says "i dont want to have sex" thats your problem and you cant force yourself on her. IF you do you have some serious serlf control issues. getting horny is a deep drive in men, but not that deep and certainly not stronger than any drug. I have had so much alcohol in me that i black out and remember nothing.. i have never been so horny that i cant help going after a girl, even a naked one.. in my bed. she said she was to tired and didnt want to.. i was abit dissapointed cause i was good to go, but that is life.. any man that says he can't control his urges is fucking weak and deserves to be put into a cell with another man that can't control himself either
rape is bad therefore we should encourage prison rape
|
Is that definistion of rape in German law accurate? I remember a few rape cases recently that does not involve sexual penetration but still proceeded as regular rape cases.
One thing that the discussion here misses is the issue that rape is an abuse of power. All the nuances on the commission of rape stems from this, whether as an authority figure, or based on gender assumptions, or by mere opportunity. It is therefore natural to conclude with this definition in mind that once a man/woman exerts this power over a woman/man in sexual terms, regardless of the circumstance, that is already a culpable exercise of abuse. In short, there are no circumstances, none whatsoever, that allows someone to initiate sexual action, in however it is defined, to another person if that person does not allow it.
|
Man: Hello, I'd like to report a mugging.
Officer: A mugging, eh? Where did it take place?
Man: I was walking by 21st and Dundritch Street and a man pulled out a gun and said, "Give me all your money."
Officer: And did you?
Man: Yes, I co-operated.
Officer: So you willingly gave the man your money without fighting back, calling for help or trying to escape?
Man: Well, yes, but I was terrified. I thought he was going to kill me!
Officer: Mmm. But you did co-operate with him. And I've been informed that you're quite a philanthropist, too.
Man: I give to charity, yes.
Officer: So you like to give money away. You make a habit of giving money away.
Man: What does that have to do with this situation?
Officer: You knowingly walked down Dundritch Street in your suit when everyone knows you like to give away money, and then you didn't fight back. It sounds like you gave money to someone, but now you're having after-donation regret. Tell me, do you really want to ruin his life because of your mistake?
Man: This is ridiculous!
Officer: This is a rape analogy. This is what women face every single day when they try to bring their rapists to justice.
This is a poor analogy because holding someone up at knife point is illegal no matter the circumstances. There are some rare instances where sex is not rape.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
