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Doesn't this happen due to the permafrost melting causing a vicious cycle where the methane released from the ice, causes more warming, causing more ice to melt, causing more warming? (and before the denialists use this as an excuse, this was triggered by man-made global warming in the first place)
Pretty sure we are going to see a lot more of these soon.
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On July 25 2012 10:12 Wampaibist wrote:Show nested quote +On July 25 2012 09:59 oBlade wrote:On July 25 2012 09:55 Wampaibist wrote:On July 25 2012 09:44 DJFaqU wrote:
"Ice cores from Summit show that melting events of this type occur about once every 150 years on average. With the last one happening in 1889, this event is right on time," says Lora Koenig, a Goddard glaciologist and a member of the research team analyzing the satellite data. "But if we continue to observe melting events like this in upcoming years, it will be worrisome."
"Researchers have not yet determined whether this extensive melt event will affect the overall volume of ice loss this summer and contribute to sea level rise."
tl;dr: nothing to see here, move along. Doesn't make sense to me why would this type of melt occur once every 150 years? And when did the 150 year cycle start? Things happen because of random variance. Krakatoa fucking exploded, but it wasn't itself evidence that the entire Earth was becoming Mordor. The Tunguska event was a big meteor explosion, but by itself it's not explained by "oh the Earth was just drifting through an asteroid field that year." It's possible that these two things are both true: humans have an effect on their environment AND random shit happens anyways. Random shit is very bad for making predictions in science. Science is the art of making a correct prediction using some model you have made. Different models can come up with the same outcome, but as long as it accurately predicts then it is a good model. I assure you the glacialogist didn't believe in random variance and her life work is dedicated in trying to figure out why the 150 year cycle is happening. As to your example of krakatoa exploding has nothing to do with random variance as well. Krakatoa is located above a hotspot, where temperature gradients in the earth mantel causes the rise of hot viscous solids and liquids.
I wouldn't read too much into that statement by the glaciologist. She didn't say there was a cycle. She said they "occur about once every 150 years on average," which could mean anything from "they occur periodically, with a period of 150+-5 years", or "they occur randomly, with a 1/150 chance to occur every year". Journalists are notoriously bad at keeping scientific facts straight and generally latch onto any statement they understand, so take anything you read with a grain of salt.
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On July 25 2012 09:32 Queequag101 wrote:
Global warming doesn't exist the sun has times when it creates large solar waves and the earth gets warmer and times when it gets colder.
I wonder why the pH of the ocean is decreasing then. Large solar waves?
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On July 25 2012 09:55 Wampaibist wrote:Show nested quote +On July 25 2012 09:44 DJFaqU wrote:
"Ice cores from Summit show that melting events of this type occur about once every 150 years on average. With the last one happening in 1889, this event is right on time," says Lora Koenig, a Goddard glaciologist and a member of the research team analyzing the satellite data. "But if we continue to observe melting events like this in upcoming years, it will be worrisome."
"Researchers have not yet determined whether this extensive melt event will affect the overall volume of ice loss this summer and contribute to sea level rise."
tl;dr: nothing to see here, move along. Doesn't make sense to me why would this type of melt occur once every 150 years? And when did the 150 year cycle start? Global warming from an anthropological cause can be attributed to humans starting to plow lands for crops (long ass time ago). One out come of plowing land is that it inhibits bacteria, mathanotrophs, from taking methane out from the air, which is one of the proven gases to create a greenhouse effect in atmosphere. secondly plowing lands kills the local dense vegetation, which essentially effects both evapotranspiration and CO2 levels. If you don't think life can affect atmospheric levels all you need to do is understand that before photosynthesis there was not anywhere near the levels of oxygen in the atmosphere as there are today.
It is a cycle. Even one of the more extreme theories on change in temperature from the IPCC has us going up 1 degree fahrenheit every 100 years. And even then, not all of that is because of humans (they do say most of that change is humans, but obviously people are still debating that).
A 1 degree average change in the last 100 years wouldnt directly cause something like this.
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Call me a pussy, but shit like this terrifies me.
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On July 25 2012 10:22 TheRabidDeer wrote:Show nested quote +On July 25 2012 09:55 Wampaibist wrote:On July 25 2012 09:44 DJFaqU wrote:
"Ice cores from Summit show that melting events of this type occur about once every 150 years on average. With the last one happening in 1889, this event is right on time," says Lora Koenig, a Goddard glaciologist and a member of the research team analyzing the satellite data. "But if we continue to observe melting events like this in upcoming years, it will be worrisome."
"Researchers have not yet determined whether this extensive melt event will affect the overall volume of ice loss this summer and contribute to sea level rise."
tl;dr: nothing to see here, move along. Doesn't make sense to me why would this type of melt occur once every 150 years? And when did the 150 year cycle start? Global warming from an anthropological cause can be attributed to humans starting to plow lands for crops (long ass time ago). One out come of plowing land is that it inhibits bacteria, mathanotrophs, from taking methane out from the air, which is one of the proven gases to create a greenhouse effect in atmosphere. secondly plowing lands kills the local dense vegetation, which essentially effects both evapotranspiration and CO2 levels. If you don't think life can affect atmospheric levels all you need to do is understand that before photosynthesis there was not anywhere near the levels of oxygen in the atmosphere as there are today. It is a cycle. Even one of the more extreme theories on change in temperature from the IPCC has us going up 1 degree fahrenheit every 100 years. And even then, not all of that is because of humans (they do say most of that change is humans, but obviously people are still debating that). A 1 degree average change in the last 100 years wouldnt directly cause something like this.
people have been around for 200000 years, and have been deforesting and plowing lands for a lot longer than 100 years. Driving our cars are not the only way we have been influencing our environments and atmosphere
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On July 25 2012 10:25 Wampaibist wrote:Show nested quote +On July 25 2012 10:22 TheRabidDeer wrote:On July 25 2012 09:55 Wampaibist wrote:On July 25 2012 09:44 DJFaqU wrote:
"Ice cores from Summit show that melting events of this type occur about once every 150 years on average. With the last one happening in 1889, this event is right on time," says Lora Koenig, a Goddard glaciologist and a member of the research team analyzing the satellite data. "But if we continue to observe melting events like this in upcoming years, it will be worrisome."
"Researchers have not yet determined whether this extensive melt event will affect the overall volume of ice loss this summer and contribute to sea level rise."
tl;dr: nothing to see here, move along. Doesn't make sense to me why would this type of melt occur once every 150 years? And when did the 150 year cycle start? Global warming from an anthropological cause can be attributed to humans starting to plow lands for crops (long ass time ago). One out come of plowing land is that it inhibits bacteria, mathanotrophs, from taking methane out from the air, which is one of the proven gases to create a greenhouse effect in atmosphere. secondly plowing lands kills the local dense vegetation, which essentially effects both evapotranspiration and CO2 levels. If you don't think life can affect atmospheric levels all you need to do is understand that before photosynthesis there was not anywhere near the levels of oxygen in the atmosphere as there are today. It is a cycle. Even one of the more extreme theories on change in temperature from the IPCC has us going up 1 degree fahrenheit every 100 years. And even then, not all of that is because of humans (they do say most of that change is humans, but obviously people are still debating that). A 1 degree average change in the last 100 years wouldnt directly cause something like this. people have been around for 200000 years, and have been deforesting and plowing lands for a lot longer than 100 years. Driving our cars are not the only way we have been influencing our environments and atmosphere
I dont really understand why you quoted me and said this.
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On July 25 2012 10:22 TheRabidDeer wrote:Show nested quote +On July 25 2012 09:55 Wampaibist wrote:On July 25 2012 09:44 DJFaqU wrote:
"Ice cores from Summit show that melting events of this type occur about once every 150 years on average. With the last one happening in 1889, this event is right on time," says Lora Koenig, a Goddard glaciologist and a member of the research team analyzing the satellite data. "But if we continue to observe melting events like this in upcoming years, it will be worrisome."
"Researchers have not yet determined whether this extensive melt event will affect the overall volume of ice loss this summer and contribute to sea level rise."
tl;dr: nothing to see here, move along. Doesn't make sense to me why would this type of melt occur once every 150 years? And when did the 150 year cycle start? Global warming from an anthropological cause can be attributed to humans starting to plow lands for crops (long ass time ago). One out come of plowing land is that it inhibits bacteria, mathanotrophs, from taking methane out from the air, which is one of the proven gases to create a greenhouse effect in atmosphere. secondly plowing lands kills the local dense vegetation, which essentially effects both evapotranspiration and CO2 levels. If you don't think life can affect atmospheric levels all you need to do is understand that before photosynthesis there was not anywhere near the levels of oxygen in the atmosphere as there are today. It is a cycle. Even one of the more extreme theories on change in temperature from the IPCC has us going up 1 degree fahrenheit every 100 years. And even then, not all of that is because of humans (they do say most of that change is humans, but obviously people are still debating that). A 1 degree average change in the last 100 years wouldnt directly cause something like this.
Extreme? Fact, the Earth has heated up approx 1 degree Celcius (not Farenheit) since 1950, and is going up faster. Grab the raw data yourself and create your own graph if you don't believe it. And if you don't believe the data is accurate, well then there must be a conspiracy where the 10,000 stations around the globe have all been tampered with (unlikely).
Here you go
http://berkeleyearth.org/dataset/
On July 25 2012 10:25 Wampaibist wrote:Show nested quote +On July 25 2012 10:22 TheRabidDeer wrote:On July 25 2012 09:55 Wampaibist wrote:On July 25 2012 09:44 DJFaqU wrote:
"Ice cores from Summit show that melting events of this type occur about once every 150 years on average. With the last one happening in 1889, this event is right on time," says Lora Koenig, a Goddard glaciologist and a member of the research team analyzing the satellite data. "But if we continue to observe melting events like this in upcoming years, it will be worrisome."
"Researchers have not yet determined whether this extensive melt event will affect the overall volume of ice loss this summer and contribute to sea level rise."
tl;dr: nothing to see here, move along. Doesn't make sense to me why would this type of melt occur once every 150 years? And when did the 150 year cycle start? Global warming from an anthropological cause can be attributed to humans starting to plow lands for crops (long ass time ago). One out come of plowing land is that it inhibits bacteria, mathanotrophs, from taking methane out from the air, which is one of the proven gases to create a greenhouse effect in atmosphere. secondly plowing lands kills the local dense vegetation, which essentially effects both evapotranspiration and CO2 levels. If you don't think life can affect atmospheric levels all you need to do is understand that before photosynthesis there was not anywhere near the levels of oxygen in the atmosphere as there are today. It is a cycle. Even one of the more extreme theories on change in temperature from the IPCC has us going up 1 degree fahrenheit every 100 years. And even then, not all of that is because of humans (they do say most of that change is humans, but obviously people are still debating that). A 1 degree average change in the last 100 years wouldnt directly cause something like this. people have been around for 200000 years, and have been deforesting and plowing lands for a lot longer than 100 years. Driving our cars are not the only way we have been influencing our environments and atmosphere
On July 25 2012 09:32 Queequag101 wrote:
Global warming doesn't exist the sun has times when it creates large solar waves and the earth gets warmer and times when it gets colder.
Even a moron who looks at the graph can see the upward trend.
This was made after the "climate gate" scandal, pretty sure the study was even initially launched by an oil company, until they found out that they were gonna get the same result and bailed out.
![[image loading]](http://berkeleyearth.org/images/decadal-land-surface-average-temperature-berkeley-earth.jpg)
http://berkeleyearth.org/
And yes a 1 degree change in global surface temperature can make a huge difference to the Earth's climate patterns.
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On July 25 2012 09:30 Nevermind86 wrote:
Well some people "politically" arguee climate change, I wonder how are they going to explain this. Sad that such a huge problem is not being adressed correctly it already may be too late.
From a scientific perspective this is significant because it more than likely isn't climate related. It might be geothermal....but damn in 4 days!
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United States1190 Posts
"Melting" is not "melted", but I do agree that it is a huge problem. The satellites probably just detect water (32+ deg F) on top of the sheets of ice for the first time. Not a good sign to be sure, but not a signal of an immediate crisis either... although the immediate crisis thing would probably be better for environmental legislation.
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On July 25 2012 09:32 Queequag101 wrote:
Global warming doesn't exist the sun has times when it creates large solar waves and the earth gets warmer and times when it gets colder.
I like how you quote some scientific facts to back your theory, then ignore the science behind the concept of global warming.
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There's an easy* fix for global warming. Just evacuate a few dozen decent-sized cities, fill them up with incendiary and/or nuclear bombs, and explode them. The resulting fires will lift soot high into the atmosphere, blotting out the Sun for a few months and cooling the Earth's surface by several degrees C.
* May not actually be easy.
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On July 25 2012 10:35 sluggaslamoo wrote:Show nested quote +On July 25 2012 10:22 TheRabidDeer wrote:On July 25 2012 09:55 Wampaibist wrote:On July 25 2012 09:44 DJFaqU wrote:
"Ice cores from Summit show that melting events of this type occur about once every 150 years on average. With the last one happening in 1889, this event is right on time," says Lora Koenig, a Goddard glaciologist and a member of the research team analyzing the satellite data. "But if we continue to observe melting events like this in upcoming years, it will be worrisome."
"Researchers have not yet determined whether this extensive melt event will affect the overall volume of ice loss this summer and contribute to sea level rise."
tl;dr: nothing to see here, move along. Doesn't make sense to me why would this type of melt occur once every 150 years? And when did the 150 year cycle start? Global warming from an anthropological cause can be attributed to humans starting to plow lands for crops (long ass time ago). One out come of plowing land is that it inhibits bacteria, mathanotrophs, from taking methane out from the air, which is one of the proven gases to create a greenhouse effect in atmosphere. secondly plowing lands kills the local dense vegetation, which essentially effects both evapotranspiration and CO2 levels. If you don't think life can affect atmospheric levels all you need to do is understand that before photosynthesis there was not anywhere near the levels of oxygen in the atmosphere as there are today. It is a cycle. Even one of the more extreme theories on change in temperature from the IPCC has us going up 1 degree fahrenheit every 100 years. And even then, not all of that is because of humans (they do say most of that change is humans, but obviously people are still debating that). A 1 degree average change in the last 100 years wouldnt directly cause something like this. Extreme? Fact, the Earth has heated up approx 1 degree Celcius (not Farenheit) since 1950, and is going up faster. Grab the raw data yourself and create your own graph if you don't believe it. And if you don't believe the data is accurate, well then there must be a conspiracy where the 10,000 stations around the globe have all been tampered with (unlikely). Here you go http://berkeleyearth.org/dataset/Show nested quote +On July 25 2012 10:25 Wampaibist wrote:On July 25 2012 10:22 TheRabidDeer wrote:On July 25 2012 09:55 Wampaibist wrote:On July 25 2012 09:44 DJFaqU wrote:
"Ice cores from Summit show that melting events of this type occur about once every 150 years on average. With the last one happening in 1889, this event is right on time," says Lora Koenig, a Goddard glaciologist and a member of the research team analyzing the satellite data. "But if we continue to observe melting events like this in upcoming years, it will be worrisome."
"Researchers have not yet determined whether this extensive melt event will affect the overall volume of ice loss this summer and contribute to sea level rise."
tl;dr: nothing to see here, move along. Doesn't make sense to me why would this type of melt occur once every 150 years? And when did the 150 year cycle start? Global warming from an anthropological cause can be attributed to humans starting to plow lands for crops (long ass time ago). One out come of plowing land is that it inhibits bacteria, mathanotrophs, from taking methane out from the air, which is one of the proven gases to create a greenhouse effect in atmosphere. secondly plowing lands kills the local dense vegetation, which essentially effects both evapotranspiration and CO2 levels. If you don't think life can affect atmospheric levels all you need to do is understand that before photosynthesis there was not anywhere near the levels of oxygen in the atmosphere as there are today. It is a cycle. Even one of the more extreme theories on change in temperature from the IPCC has us going up 1 degree fahrenheit every 100 years. And even then, not all of that is because of humans (they do say most of that change is humans, but obviously people are still debating that). A 1 degree average change in the last 100 years wouldnt directly cause something like this. people have been around for 200000 years, and have been deforesting and plowing lands for a lot longer than 100 years. Driving our cars are not the only way we have been influencing our environments and atmosphere Show nested quote +On July 25 2012 09:32 Queequag101 wrote:
Global warming doesn't exist the sun has times when it creates large solar waves and the earth gets warmer and times when it gets colder. Even a moron who looks at the graph can see the upward trend. This was made after the "climate gate" scandal, pretty sure the study was even initially launched by an oil company, until they found out that they were gonna get the same result and bailed out. http://berkeleyearth.org/And yes a 1 degree change in global surface temperature can make a huge difference to the Earth's climate patterns.
Sorry, I mis-remembered what I had read. IPCC say that humans are most of the 1 degree F change of the last 50 years.
http://photo.pds.org:5012/cqresearcher/document.php?id=cqresrre2011090900
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On July 25 2012 10:43 lithiumdeuteride wrote:
There's an easy* fix for global warming. Just evacuate a few dozen decent-sized cities, fill them up with incendiary and/or nuclear bombs, and explode them. The resulting fires will lift soot high into the atmosphere, blotting out the Sun for a few months and cooling the Earth's surface by several degrees C.
* May not actually be easy.
Why wouldn't you just do it in the deserts where nobody lives? 
Won't do much though, it took 50 years of trapped energy to heat up the earth to where it was, its going to take just as much energy to cool it back down, and then in 25 years, we will be back to where we started.
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One week. Huge portion of a country melts away. One freaking week, that's a "geological instant". I can't imagine how much worse things will be as time continues to pass...
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On July 25 2012 10:46 TheRabidDeer wrote:Show nested quote +On July 25 2012 10:35 sluggaslamoo wrote:On July 25 2012 10:22 TheRabidDeer wrote:On July 25 2012 09:55 Wampaibist wrote:On July 25 2012 09:44 DJFaqU wrote:
"Ice cores from Summit show that melting events of this type occur about once every 150 years on average. With the last one happening in 1889, this event is right on time," says Lora Koenig, a Goddard glaciologist and a member of the research team analyzing the satellite data. "But if we continue to observe melting events like this in upcoming years, it will be worrisome."
"Researchers have not yet determined whether this extensive melt event will affect the overall volume of ice loss this summer and contribute to sea level rise."
tl;dr: nothing to see here, move along. Doesn't make sense to me why would this type of melt occur once every 150 years? And when did the 150 year cycle start? Global warming from an anthropological cause can be attributed to humans starting to plow lands for crops (long ass time ago). One out come of plowing land is that it inhibits bacteria, mathanotrophs, from taking methane out from the air, which is one of the proven gases to create a greenhouse effect in atmosphere. secondly plowing lands kills the local dense vegetation, which essentially effects both evapotranspiration and CO2 levels. If you don't think life can affect atmospheric levels all you need to do is understand that before photosynthesis there was not anywhere near the levels of oxygen in the atmosphere as there are today. It is a cycle. Even one of the more extreme theories on change in temperature from the IPCC has us going up 1 degree fahrenheit every 100 years. And even then, not all of that is because of humans (they do say most of that change is humans, but obviously people are still debating that). A 1 degree average change in the last 100 years wouldnt directly cause something like this. Extreme? Fact, the Earth has heated up approx 1 degree Celcius (not Farenheit) since 1950, and is going up faster. Grab the raw data yourself and create your own graph if you don't believe it. And if you don't believe the data is accurate, well then there must be a conspiracy where the 10,000 stations around the globe have all been tampered with (unlikely). Here you go http://berkeleyearth.org/dataset/On July 25 2012 10:25 Wampaibist wrote:On July 25 2012 10:22 TheRabidDeer wrote:On July 25 2012 09:55 Wampaibist wrote:On July 25 2012 09:44 DJFaqU wrote:
"Ice cores from Summit show that melting events of this type occur about once every 150 years on average. With the last one happening in 1889, this event is right on time," says Lora Koenig, a Goddard glaciologist and a member of the research team analyzing the satellite data. "But if we continue to observe melting events like this in upcoming years, it will be worrisome."
"Researchers have not yet determined whether this extensive melt event will affect the overall volume of ice loss this summer and contribute to sea level rise."
tl;dr: nothing to see here, move along. Doesn't make sense to me why would this type of melt occur once every 150 years? And when did the 150 year cycle start? Global warming from an anthropological cause can be attributed to humans starting to plow lands for crops (long ass time ago). One out come of plowing land is that it inhibits bacteria, mathanotrophs, from taking methane out from the air, which is one of the proven gases to create a greenhouse effect in atmosphere. secondly plowing lands kills the local dense vegetation, which essentially effects both evapotranspiration and CO2 levels. If you don't think life can affect atmospheric levels all you need to do is understand that before photosynthesis there was not anywhere near the levels of oxygen in the atmosphere as there are today. It is a cycle. Even one of the more extreme theories on change in temperature from the IPCC has us going up 1 degree fahrenheit every 100 years. And even then, not all of that is because of humans (they do say most of that change is humans, but obviously people are still debating that). A 1 degree average change in the last 100 years wouldnt directly cause something like this. people have been around for 200000 years, and have been deforesting and plowing lands for a lot longer than 100 years. Driving our cars are not the only way we have been influencing our environments and atmosphere On July 25 2012 09:32 Queequag101 wrote:
Global warming doesn't exist the sun has times when it creates large solar waves and the earth gets warmer and times when it gets colder. Even a moron who looks at the graph can see the upward trend. This was made after the "climate gate" scandal, pretty sure the study was even initially launched by an oil company, until they found out that they were gonna get the same result and bailed out. http://berkeleyearth.org/And yes a 1 degree change in global surface temperature can make a huge difference to the Earth's climate patterns. Sorry, I mis-remembered what I had read. IPCC say that humans are most of the 1 degree F change of the last 50 years. http://photo.pds.org:5012/cqresearcher/document.php?id=cqresrre2011090900
It doesn't matter what the IPCC says, even if they seem to be the gatekeeper to all things global warming.
The raw data of the 10,000 stations around the world show a 1C increase in temperature over the last 50 years. This is irrefutable.
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aw fuck california isn't that high up are we?
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On July 25 2012 10:51 sluggaslamoo wrote:Show nested quote +On July 25 2012 10:46 TheRabidDeer wrote:On July 25 2012 10:35 sluggaslamoo wrote:On July 25 2012 10:22 TheRabidDeer wrote:On July 25 2012 09:55 Wampaibist wrote:On July 25 2012 09:44 DJFaqU wrote:
"Ice cores from Summit show that melting events of this type occur about once every 150 years on average. With the last one happening in 1889, this event is right on time," says Lora Koenig, a Goddard glaciologist and a member of the research team analyzing the satellite data. "But if we continue to observe melting events like this in upcoming years, it will be worrisome."
"Researchers have not yet determined whether this extensive melt event will affect the overall volume of ice loss this summer and contribute to sea level rise."
tl;dr: nothing to see here, move along. Doesn't make sense to me why would this type of melt occur once every 150 years? And when did the 150 year cycle start? Global warming from an anthropological cause can be attributed to humans starting to plow lands for crops (long ass time ago). One out come of plowing land is that it inhibits bacteria, mathanotrophs, from taking methane out from the air, which is one of the proven gases to create a greenhouse effect in atmosphere. secondly plowing lands kills the local dense vegetation, which essentially effects both evapotranspiration and CO2 levels. If you don't think life can affect atmospheric levels all you need to do is understand that before photosynthesis there was not anywhere near the levels of oxygen in the atmosphere as there are today. It is a cycle. Even one of the more extreme theories on change in temperature from the IPCC has us going up 1 degree fahrenheit every 100 years. And even then, not all of that is because of humans (they do say most of that change is humans, but obviously people are still debating that). A 1 degree average change in the last 100 years wouldnt directly cause something like this. Extreme? Fact, the Earth has heated up approx 1 degree Celcius (not Farenheit) since 1950, and is going up faster. Grab the raw data yourself and create your own graph if you don't believe it. And if you don't believe the data is accurate, well then there must be a conspiracy where the 10,000 stations around the globe have all been tampered with (unlikely). Here you go http://berkeleyearth.org/dataset/On July 25 2012 10:25 Wampaibist wrote:On July 25 2012 10:22 TheRabidDeer wrote:On July 25 2012 09:55 Wampaibist wrote:On July 25 2012 09:44 DJFaqU wrote:
"Ice cores from Summit show that melting events of this type occur about once every 150 years on average. With the last one happening in 1889, this event is right on time," says Lora Koenig, a Goddard glaciologist and a member of the research team analyzing the satellite data. "But if we continue to observe melting events like this in upcoming years, it will be worrisome."
"Researchers have not yet determined whether this extensive melt event will affect the overall volume of ice loss this summer and contribute to sea level rise."
tl;dr: nothing to see here, move along. Doesn't make sense to me why would this type of melt occur once every 150 years? And when did the 150 year cycle start? Global warming from an anthropological cause can be attributed to humans starting to plow lands for crops (long ass time ago). One out come of plowing land is that it inhibits bacteria, mathanotrophs, from taking methane out from the air, which is one of the proven gases to create a greenhouse effect in atmosphere. secondly plowing lands kills the local dense vegetation, which essentially effects both evapotranspiration and CO2 levels. If you don't think life can affect atmospheric levels all you need to do is understand that before photosynthesis there was not anywhere near the levels of oxygen in the atmosphere as there are today. It is a cycle. Even one of the more extreme theories on change in temperature from the IPCC has us going up 1 degree fahrenheit every 100 years. And even then, not all of that is because of humans (they do say most of that change is humans, but obviously people are still debating that). A 1 degree average change in the last 100 years wouldnt directly cause something like this. people have been around for 200000 years, and have been deforesting and plowing lands for a lot longer than 100 years. Driving our cars are not the only way we have been influencing our environments and atmosphere On July 25 2012 09:32 Queequag101 wrote:
Global warming doesn't exist the sun has times when it creates large solar waves and the earth gets warmer and times when it gets colder. Even a moron who looks at the graph can see the upward trend. This was made after the "climate gate" scandal, pretty sure the study was even initially launched by an oil company, until they found out that they were gonna get the same result and bailed out. http://berkeleyearth.org/And yes a 1 degree change in global surface temperature can make a huge difference to the Earth's climate patterns. Sorry, I mis-remembered what I had read. IPCC say that humans are most of the 1 degree F change of the last 50 years. http://photo.pds.org:5012/cqresearcher/document.php?id=cqresrre2011090900 It doesn't matter what the IPCC says, even if they seem to be the gatekeeper to all things global warming. The raw data of the 10,000 stations around the world show a 1C increase in temperature over the last 50 years. This is irrefutable.
It shows a 1C increase over the last 50 years, but it doesnt show you that 50 years ago it was below the norm and now it is above the norm. It has been a .5 degree increase above the norm. How exactly it is determined, I will trust the IPCC over you.
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On July 25 2012 10:13 Arghmyliver wrote:Show nested quote +On July 25 2012 10:11 sunprince wrote:On July 25 2012 09:42 caradoc wrote:
Of course it was accelerated and precipitated by climate change. But it's like attributing hurricanes to climate change, statistically there will be many many more giant hurricanes, but you can't attribute a specific event to it because the occur at different scales of causality.
It's like if you have a window open at night, and you turn on a light-- many more bugs will be in the house than if the light was off, but you can't tell if any given bug came in because the light was on or not. Whether you can tell why any given bug came in is irrelevant. All you need to know is that there's a causative effect from turning the light on, and that you can measure the extent of that effect. You may not be able to tell exactly which bugs came in - but you can measure how many more come in when you leave the light on and window open.
And then before you're done measuring a fuck ton of killer bees come in and rape you your family and your children.
Theres so many more reasons for mankind to adapt other than some dumb debate as to whether or not man has any effect on climate change. Just starting with fuel emissions from fossil fuels. Theres no way our current society which was propelled by oil can be sustained indefinitely, let alone 100 years from now. Even just starting with the rising nations of China and India; billions of people whose demand for oil will rise. It's convenient for politicians to ignore it and believe we have much longer to stumble upon the solution than there really is.
And then we're told not to blame the governments (really the politicians). Billions of dollars are shoved into the pockets of the oil industry in the USA, money better spent towards the research and development of a sustainable future infrastructure that isn't run by gasoline fueled trucks. Same oil industry then turns around and conveniently donates to those politicians' campaigns who get elected to repeat the same broken cycle.
And ontop of that, fuel emissions over time can be linked to the global rise in temperature.
This thread got me depressed over the state of US politics again. sigh
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EPT
