EPTOn August 09 2013 02:30 DrCooper wrote:
http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/thermo/imgheat/temsol2.gif
Not anymore.
http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/thermo/imgheat/temsol2.gif
Not anymore.
Well I guess that's that.
NASA: Strange and sudden massive melt in Greenland - Page 24
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a176
Canada6688 Posts
Well I guess that's that. | ||
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AeroGear
Canada652 Posts
On August 09 2013 07:57 Misanthrope wrote: Yeah tbh the fact that we're coming out of an ice age probably has something to do with the fact that the world appears to be getting warmer. Also we have shit for temp measurements before like 200~ years ago or so I've heard. The end result is the same: as it gets warmer and warmer, eventually humans will event more efficient air conditioning or we die out. I'd wager AC since we've already accomplished it. We actually have thousands of years of research, its called ice cores. The more you know... | ||
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Dazed.
Canada3301 Posts
On August 08 2013 15:34 Rassy wrote: Thats simply demonstrably false. How do you think we invent technology for crying out loud? Small firms in fact are the most innovative organizationally and technologically; the cash strapped entities are the ones that push the boundaries.Yes thats one of the big drawbacks (besides huge inequality in living standards) of capitalism. If it doesnt make monney in the short run there are nearly no resources dedicated. | ||
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radiatoren
Denmark1907 Posts
On August 09 2013 12:38 Dazed_Spy wrote: Thats simply demonstrably false. How do you think we invent technology for crying out loud? Small firms in fact are the most innovative organizationally and technologically; the cash strapped entities are the ones that push the boundaries. Giving out up to 20 years of monopoly? Patents are making deficit spending more attractive. It is hard to gain funding for a company if you haven't ensured that you own the intellectual rights. If the invention is not patentable, you have to find other means to protect it against competition or pray for public funding. Since some of the technology needed is outside the scope of what patents can help with, it takes government funding to plug the holes in the system. So all in all he is probably wrong, but the basics of corporations is a focus on starting to pay off the initial investments as soon as possible and that leads to short- or medium- sighted decissions. When that is said, climate change sucks bigtime for certain parts of the world, while others will get better conditions. Climate change is not gonna be the end of the world on its own. What it does is holding back research by denying access to gene pools by accelerating extinction of more obscure organisms, Increasing extreme weather globally to cause more of the economy to go into rebuilding, melting ice on the poles which increase the sealevel and therefore reduce the inhabitable landmass and potentially several other more or less known effects. A sidenote is the sustainability of the world. Several resources are being reused at far too low a rate and it is causing the unsustainability of the current use to create a future deficit. | ||
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sandg
Australia123 Posts
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AeroGear
Canada652 Posts
On August 09 2013 12:38 Dazed_Spy wrote: Thats simply demonstrably false. How do you think we invent technology for crying out loud? Small firms in fact are the most innovative organizationally and technologically; the cash strapped entities are the ones that push the boundaries. Most R&D is public funded and ran by governmental organizations. Small business is keen (and best at) monetizing these innovations and results. | ||
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DrCooper
Germany261 Posts
On August 09 2013 23:55 sandg wrote: probably nothing to do with global warming, and more to do with the secret haarp facility the usa built in the middle of greenland a while ago. +1 I've also heard Osama Bin Laden is in charge of this particular facility. Damn this guy! | ||
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imperator-xy
Germany1377 Posts
On August 09 2013 02:30 DrCooper wrote: http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/thermo/imgheat/temsol2.gif Not anymore. Why does that graphic stop at 1980? That time from ~1975 to 1980 could just be a coincidence, just like the time from ~1860 to ~1875. | ||
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Napoleon53
Denmark167 Posts
On August 10 2013 06:59 imperator-xy wrote: Why does that graphic stop at 1980? That time from ~1975 to 1980 could just be a coincidence, just like the time from ~1860 to ~1875. agreed. This is not a debate-ending graph. If you google the coherence between solar activity and temperature, you will notice a lot of different graphs, and this is just one of them. It takes a lot of insight to get a fair grasp of this coherence, so you don't get manipulated by simple statistical cleverness. | ||
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Orangered
289 Posts
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sunprince
United States2258 Posts
On August 10 2013 06:59 imperator-xy wrote: Why does that graphic stop at 1980? That time from ~1975 to 1980 could just be a coincidence, just like the time from ~1860 to ~1875. Here's a better one: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/32/Global_Temperature_Anomaly_1880-2012.svg | ||
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DrCooper
Germany261 Posts
On August 10 2013 17:48 Napoleon53 wrote: agreed. This is not a debate-ending graph. If you google the coherence between solar activity and temperature, you will notice a lot of different graphs, and this is just one of them. It takes a lot of insight do get a fair grasp of this coherence, so you don't get manipulated by simple statistical cleverness. Exactly, that is why I believe scientists who do have a fair grasp of our climate, and most of them ( as in 95% of them) agree with eachother. Of course there is a chance that they are wrong and maybe something other than CO2 causes our change of climate. But I am not willing to take that chance. | ||
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thirtyapm
521 Posts
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Napoleon53
Denmark167 Posts
On August 10 2013 20:54 DrCooper wrote: Exactly, that is why I believe scientists who do have a fair grasp of our climate, and most of them ( as in 95% of them) agree with eachother. Of course there is a chance that they are wrong and maybe something other than CO2 causes our change of climate. But I am not willing to take that chance. Agree. No reason to take any chances. Also because other problemes can be fixed while reducing CO2 emissions. ![[image loading]](http://thethoughtstash.files.wordpress.com/2010/07/colclimatcopenhbighoaxpett.jpg) | ||
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Phattyasmo
United States69 Posts
On July 25 2012 09:32 Queequag101 wrote: Global warming doesn't exist the sun has times when it creates large solar waves and the earth gets warmer and times when it gets colder. Many of you are missing the point. Yes, the Earth does go into warmer and cooler periods...that is normal. What you're overlooking is the significance of humans' impact. Humans have been pumping out gases (that are not beneficial) into the atmosphere very recently, considering the overall age of Earth. These gases act like a greenhouse effect--Venus being a prime example--and trap the heat. We may not see increases of 10 degrees yet, but that is because it is still in the "beginning" stages. Wait 50 years and then tell me it does not exist... | ||
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{CC}StealthBlue
United States41117 Posts
Ice in Antarctica and Greenland is disappearing faster and may drive sea levels higher than predicted this century, according to leaked United Nations documents. Greenland’s ice added six times more to sea levels in the decade through 2011 than in the previous 10 years, according to a draft of the UN’s most comprehensive study on climate change. Antarctica had a fivefold increase, and the UN is raising its forecast for how much the two ice sheets will add to Earth’s oceans by 2100. The changes in the planet’s coldest areas are a “very good indicator” of a warming planet, according to Walt Meier, a research scientist with the U.S. National Aeronautics and Space Administration. “It’s an early warning system,” Meier said by phone from NASA’s Goddard Space Flight Center in Greenbelt, Maryland. “When you think about a couple of degrees of warming, in the U.K. or U.S., it’s not something that would be too noticeable, whereas in an area of snow and ice, it can have a huge effect. With sea ice, minus 1 to plus 1 is the difference between skating on the ice and swimming in the ocean.” Source | ||
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Veldril
Thailand1817 Posts
Those who are skeptical about carbon dioxide greenhouse warming might profitably note the massive greenhouse effect on Venus. No one proposes that Venus's greenhouse effect derives from imprudent Venusians who burned too much coal, drove fuel-inefficient autos, and cut down their forests. My point is different. The climatological history of our planetary neighbor, an otherwise Earthlike planet on which the surface became hot enough to melt tin or lead, is worth considering — especially by those who say that the increasing greenhouse effect on Earth will be self-correcting, that we don't really have to worry about it, or (you can see this in the publications of some groups that call themselves conservative) that the greenhouse effect is a "hoax" Venus is closer to the sun than Earth so it's going to be hotter but to be hotter than 500 degree Celsius implicates the effect of carbon dioxide (which is main component in Venus atmosphere) on the climate. We might not get to that level of carbon dioxide concentration (as long as we don't cut down most of the trees) but that doesn't mean current carbon dioxide level won't have any effect on our climate at all. | ||
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Arghmyliver
United States1081 Posts
On September 07 2013 15:21 Veldril wrote: I think Carl Sagan gave us a good reasons why we should be worry about greenhouse effect and carbon dioxide level in his book: Venus is closer to the sun than Earth so it's going to be hotter but to be hotter than 500 degree Celsius implicates the effect of carbon dioxide (which is main component in Venus atmosphere) on the climate. We might not get to that level of carbon dioxide concentration (as long as we don't cut down most of the trees) but that doesn't mean current carbon dioxide level won't have any effect on our climate at all. I agree with Mr. Sagan completely. It seems to me that it hardly matters whether climate change is manmade or otherwise - I defy you to live in 500* Celsius weather. | ||
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DeepElemBlues
United States5080 Posts
Prove it ? Or are you assuming that south americans, africans and asian countries are not "capitalists" ? No most of those countries aren't capitalist Most South American countries are corrupt quasi-socialist autocratic economies where the ruling class enriches itself off high-priced commodities (oil, cocaine, beef etc.) or in some other way through crony capitalism while papering over their economic failures by handing out more and more to the poor while the middle class shrinks. Examples: Bolivia, Ecuador Venezuela, Argentina. Counter-example: Brazil. Most African countries are the same. Examples: Every country north of the Sahara. Every country south of the Sahara except South Africa. Counter-example: South Africa. Most Asian countries again the same. Examples: India, Pakistan, all the other -stans. Counter-examples: Japan, South Korea. Also I don't think I need to "prove" what is common knowledge, that living standards in the First World are superior to those in any prior period in human history, and that inequality in living standards is lower than any prior period in human history. The main area of improvement has been in food but there's also housing transportation and consumer goods. Five hundred years ago if you were rich enough to buy a horse you were in the 1% pretty much. Today, 90%+ of adults living in the First World can afford for most of their adult lives if not the entirety of their adult lives to own an automobile. Or they have access to well-developed public transportation networks. Even the saying that once again only the rich can afford horses is not entirely true. (GDP, how can you measure the value of a tree ? of a species ? of a landscape ?). I don't know how you can if you look at it from a philosophical On Walden Pond type perspective but people can and do measure the monetary value of those things all the time. | ||
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{CC}StealthBlue
United States41117 Posts
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