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On August 08 2013 07:10 Nachtwind wrote:
Well i hope humanity can tech out of what´s coming(when and if something is coming) but i doubt it. I doubt because the tech we need don´t bring money. Now. Therefore, if at all, the technologies will only be there in the last moments of human man kind.
love free economics and the white man ♥
Yes thats one of the big drawbacks (besides huge inequality in living standards) of capitalism.
If it doesnt make monney in the short run there are nearly no resources dedicated.
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One of the big drawbacks from the other economic systems is they typically do far worse than capitalism would.
Don't assume everything would be rosy with the environment and the standards of life if you could just get extremely smart people to be able to do with other people's property as they wished.
I hope we find some explanation for the strange timing of this event.
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Regardless of where you stand on climate change, don't you think the executives of major corporations have committed one of the greatest crimes in history - ever, by sponsoring enormous amounts of disinformation. Given what is potentially at stake, spending money to spread lies and buy uncertainty is an almost unthinkable act, sort of like treason against the human race. Honestly, they should all be summarily executed. To sell out a civilization to buy an extra beach mansion that you don't even fucking need is evil on a scale that boggles the mind.
And that's probably the biggest drawback to capitalism. It does very well at solving optimization problems, but is really bad at longer term planning. The American model of capitalism is a complete fucking mess and yet it's touted as the premier economic system. Not so. We've seen what happens when you let money go wild in China (ironically, the former communist state is far more lassiz faire economically than the US), the pollution problems there are a microcosm of what further deregulation of corporations would cause. I don't know how invisible handers justify corporate spending on propaganda and disinformation, it creates no goods, optimizes nothing, saves no resources, and is good only for the bank accounts of the few at the expense of the many. Champions of "private property" should think about how this private property came into present ownership before declaring it sacrosanct.
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On August 08 2013 15:46 Danglars wrote:
One of the big drawbacks from the other economic systems is they typically do far worse than capitalism would.
Don't assume everything would be rosy with the environment and the standards of life if you could just get extremely smart people to be able to do with other people's property as they wished.
I hope we find some explanation for the strange timing of this event.
Nearly everyone posting here from the usa is middle class or higher,they only see the good side of the system and never had to face the downside in wich the majority of americans is living. This system as its practiced now in america gives maybe 25% of the people a decent live, all the others only go along because they never have known better.
Think the biggest isue is not even income, its more the run down and with crime and violence filled nabourhoods in wich manny people live. Though i do realise this is easy to say from europe, people never realy had to work hard like in the usa, europeans can be rather spoiled.
In 1000 years from now we will probably look back on this period of human history as beeing the dark ages of capitalism.
Though i have to agree with you that not everything would be rosy with whatever system we would have.
The timing of this event isnt that strange btw, its summer after all
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On August 08 2013 05:01 sc2superfan101 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2013 04:47 DrCooper wrote:On August 08 2013 04:38 sc2superfan101 wrote:On August 08 2013 04:11 Ghostcom wrote:On August 08 2013 03:11 Phael wrote:
In any reasonable estimation, we have at least a few million years left, upwards to a few billion. Unless we blast ourselves back into the stone ages every few thousand years, there's no realistic way that our lifeboats won't be ready before the planet is dead. If the climate turns so rough that we can't grow crops and thus feed our population we don't have a few million years left. There are plenty of realistic scenarios in which our lifeboats won't be ready. More heat and more carbon is good for plant-growth, not bad... Yep, lots of droughts. Very good for plant growth and for people who rely on their annual harvest. Can you tell me one famous era in Earth's history where there was much more heat and much more carbon in the atmosphere? I'll give you a hint, it was when the largest creatures that ever roamed the Earth... roamed the Earth. (The irony of calling them "greenhouse gasses" and implying that they will be bad for plant growth is not lost on me.)
Many factors have an effect on our climate system, that is why it is so hard to make models and predictions.
One of the major factors is the location of the continents. During miost of the Mesozoic Era we had basically one continent. No glaciers on earth. Marine Currents (extremely important to our climate) were completely differently. The situation back then can in no way be used as an example for anything.
However, true is that the mean temperature of our earth is about 30°C. Which means that someday it will be like that again.
These bursts of ice ages (including todays one) are relatively short.
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There is no global warming.It is made so that governments can control us even more.
I think there was a good read that i had about that thousand years ago it was hotter than now it is.
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On August 08 2013 20:14 Crying wrote:
There is no global warming.It is made so that governments can control us even more.
I think there was a good read that i had about that thousand years ago it was hotter than now it is.
Since when does a good read that you once had override an overwhelming scientific consensus?
You can find compelling articles on the internet that prove pretty much ANYTHING you want to see proven. Just go look for it if you don't believe me.
They will tell you what you want to hear, present compelling (but usually superficial, selective, or incorrect) evidence to convince you what you want to hear is what you needed to hear, and make you believe you have formed an educated opinion on the subject. Whereas in reality, you will know just as little (probably less) on the topic than you knew before you read the article/book/etc.
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Sustainable economy is what is sought, not one extreme or the other. It would be selfish to call the current situation "okay" given over 1 billion (or more) person starving or lacking access to clean water but this is going off-topic. Just like it would be ignorant to ask for a sudden stop to all industries and go back to the stone age.
All that money spent on lobbying and disinformation campaigns could be instead spent on researching greener alternative. Green alternatives are getting increasingly competitive with gas and oil as exploration and extraction costs soar. The shift, while inevitable, could be faster given social pressure and political commitment. As it is now the world's leading nations (USA, China) dont want to be the one making the first step, which is downright silly. Taking the lead now in alternative energy, while at a cost, will pay up in the long term. Basic economy.
Energy is not going away obviously, but there are ways to limit emissions, wether by carbon sequestration, relying on biofuels (zero net carbon emission when you account for what the plant/alguae consumes and what is released when you burn it), solar, wind, geothermal you name it. There's no such thing as a zero emission solution when you take into account the construction or fabrication process, but they are still usually ahead of coal or gas powered power stations. Not only in carbon emissions, but also in other pollutant releases (heavy metals, sulphur, etc.)
Most of the world's current problems stem from lack of education, lack of ethics or lack and/or missuse of ressources. The lack of education is pretty evident coming from some posters in here. Wander outside your gated communities or wherever you live, go walk on a garbage littered beach, visit a landfill or an active or abandonned mine shaft. If you dont want to trust specialists who devote their lives to these fields, go look by yourself.
Edit: A 180 degree shift is clearly not possible, it has to be gradual. Even the v8 drivers can understand that turning 1 degree now (rather than 10 years/miles further) makes a difference, not only in the direction you're heading but on the strain you put your truck through by avoiding a sudden turn.
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On July 25 2012 09:32 Queequag101 wrote:
Global warming doesn't exist the sun has times when it creates large solar waves and the earth gets warmer and times when it gets colder.
agreed, hard to believe its man made when its the world bank that is set up to collect everyone's "carbon taxes"... the man made part is a sham to cash in.
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On July 25 2012 09:44 electrondude wrote:
But , but if those useless ice is gone we can finally gather the oil there and make money . Jokes aside the question if global warming exists is pointless . Even if the effect doesn't exist , the worst thing measures against it could achieve is a cleaner and probably healthier environment .
if that was the intent. the gorebots out there are only advocating global cap and trade, basically carbon tax. just another way for the banks of the world to steal more of your money.
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On August 09 2013 02:15 Dryzt wrote:Show nested quote +On July 25 2012 09:32 Queequag101 wrote:
Global warming doesn't exist the sun has times when it creates large solar waves and the earth gets warmer and times when it gets colder. agreed, hard to believe its man made when its the world bank that is set up to collect everyone's "carbon taxes"... the man made part is a sham to cash in.
World... bank? Must be interesting living a life where everything is a conspiracy.
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On August 09 2013 02:15 Dryzt wrote:Show nested quote +On July 25 2012 09:32 Queequag101 wrote:
Global warming doesn't exist the sun has times when it creates large solar waves and the earth gets warmer and times when it gets colder. agreed, hard to believe its man made when its the world bank that is set up to collect everyone's "carbon taxes"... the man made part is a sham to cash in.
You honestly don't believe with all the fossil fuel like oil we dig up from underneath and the high energy usage mankind has, has ANY cause on earth at all...
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On August 08 2013 15:34 Rassy wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2013 07:10 Nachtwind wrote:
Well i hope humanity can tech out of what´s coming(when and if something is coming) but i doubt it. I doubt because the tech we need don´t bring money. Now. Therefore, if at all, the technologies will only be there in the last moments of human man kind.
love free economics and the white man ♥ Yes thats one of the big drawbacks (besides huge inequality in living standards) of capitalism. If it doesnt make monney in the short run there are nearly no resources dedicated.
This is why capitalist societies have the smallest inequalities in living standards of any society ever :/
That's also a very ignorant statement about capitalism that nearly no resources are dedicated to endeavors that don't make money in the short run :/
Nearly everyone posting here from the usa is middle class or higher,they only see the good side of the system and never had to face the downside in wich the majority of americans is living.
my income is under the poverty line for an individual i have all the amenities of a middle-class life
including: a car, a computer, high-speed internet access, 200-some channels on my television, a microwave, a refrigerator, central heating and air conditioning units (no central air conditioning for me, kinda sucks sometimes but whatever it's not a problem), a dishwasher, a clothes washer and dryer, etc.
im not just some outlier either, most people in america "facing the downside" have all or most of those conveniences and amenities as well
this "downside" you speak of is not something a majority of americans are living by any means
you're just pulling stuff out of your butt
This system as its practiced now in america gives maybe 25% of the people a decent live, all the others only go along because they never have known better.
lololol
really how is someone supposed to respond to such an ignorant comment
Think the biggest isue is not even income, its more the run down and with crime and violence filled nabourhoods in wich manny people live
you do know that crime has been falling in america for 20 years including violent crime
and that america has a lower violent crime rate than several european countries and im talking about countries in western europe not east europe
In 1000 years from now we will probably look back on this period of human history as beeing the dark ages of capitalism.
you wish
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On August 09 2013 02:39 DeepElemBlues wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2013 15:34 Rassy wrote:On August 08 2013 07:10 Nachtwind wrote:
Well i hope humanity can tech out of what´s coming(when and if something is coming) but i doubt it. I doubt because the tech we need don´t bring money. Now. Therefore, if at all, the technologies will only be there in the last moments of human man kind.
love free economics and the white man ♥ Yes thats one of the big drawbacks (besides huge inequality in living standards) of capitalism. If it doesnt make monney in the short run there are nearly no resources dedicated. This is why capitalist societies have the smallest inequalities in living standards of any society ever :/ That's also a very ignorant statement about capitalism that nearly no resources are dedicated to endeavors that don't make money in the short run :/ Show nested quote +Nearly everyone posting here from the usa is middle class or higher,they only see the good side of the system and never had to face the downside in wich the majority of americans is living. my income is under the poverty line for an individual i have all the amenities of a middle-class life including: a car, a computer, high-speed internet access, 200-some channels on my television, a microwave, a refrigerator, central heating and air conditioning units (no central air conditioning for me, kinda sucks sometimes but whatever it's not a problem), a dishwasher, a clothes washer and dryer, etc. im not just some outlier either, most people in america "facing the downside" have all or most of those conveniences and amenities as well this "downside" you speak of is not something a majority of americans are living by any means you're just pulling stuff out of your butt Show nested quote +This system as its practiced now in america gives maybe 25% of the people a decent live, all the others only go along because they never have known better. lololol really how is someone supposed to respond to such an ignorant comment Show nested quote +Think the biggest isue is not even income, its more the run down and with crime and violence filled nabourhoods in wich manny people live you do know that crime has been falling in america for 20 years including violent crime and that america has a lower violent crime rate than several european countries and im talking about countries in western europe not east europe Show nested quote +In 1000 years from now we will probably look back on this period of human history as beeing the dark ages of capitalism. you wish
Hmmkay, you have a point and i was overdoing my critisism a bit, maybe i was thinking to much about detroit or compton lol.
I dont think the usa is that bad of a country but i also dont see it as the best country to live in like manny americans do, just trying to give some counterweight.
And yes i do wish that in 1000 years from now we will have left this system behind as i dont see it as giving the best results and the fastest way to technologicaly advance.
But then again,we will all long be dead by then so i guess i just have to live with the system like its now
http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/thermo/imgheat/temsol2.gif
Not anymore.
Thats an amazing chart btw, verry interesting. Ty for posting it.
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On August 09 2013 02:39 DeepElemBlues wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2013 15:34 Rassy wrote:On August 08 2013 07:10 Nachtwind wrote:
Well i hope humanity can tech out of what´s coming(when and if something is coming) but i doubt it. I doubt because the tech we need don´t bring money. Now. Therefore, if at all, the technologies will only be there in the last moments of human man kind.
love free economics and the white man ♥ Yes thats one of the big drawbacks (besides huge inequality in living standards) of capitalism. If it doesnt make monney in the short run there are nearly no resources dedicated. This is why capitalist societies have the smallest inequalities in living standards of any society ever :/
Prove it ? Or are you assuming that south americans, africans and asian countries are not "capitalists" ?
What you guys call "capitalism" (which most of the time is wrongly used) doesn't mean much to me. I hate people that critic "capitalism" as much as I hate people who defend it. It doesn't mean shit aside from the idea of accumulating capital and permitting the private property of the production tools (did you know that Karl Marx never used the word capitalism ? he used to talk about "das kapital" which is the capital). After that, there are thousands of different "capitalisms".
Still, from an historic perspective, the "capitalism", has done as much good as bad. I'm still struggling to actually agree with the idea that our modern economy created any wealth, because for all the great thing we have created, we have destroyed as much, but what we destroyed is not "in the numbers" (GDP, how can you measure the value of a tree ? of a species ? of a landscape ?).
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whether or not global warming is man made or not. I think its a disservice to only just talk about it and do nothing. The fact is its happening. What can we do about it? Its a known fact that carbon dioxide increases the heat retention on earth. Just look at venus for a massive green house effect example. So even if its not "man made". Reducing carbon is still something we should strive for.
can we release massive oxygen bombs in the air or something? is there any solutions to reverse the heating?
just ideas, obviously nobody here will be able to answer
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On July 25 2012 09:42 ayaz2810 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 25 2012 09:32 Queequag101 wrote:
Global warming doesn't exist the sun has times when it creates large solar waves and the earth gets warmer and times when it gets colder. Badly worded. But probably an element of truth to this. I'm certain mass consumption of fossil fuels contributes something to the overall heating of the planet, but I reeeeaaally doubt it's enough to cause a measurable change. But, what the fuck do I know? I'm just some jackass on the internet that has done like no research. Just a gut feeling. Heh.
Yeah tbh the fact that we're coming out of an ice age probably has something to do with the fact that the world appears to be getting warmer. Also we have shit for temp measurements before like 200~ years ago or so I've heard. The end result is the same: as it gets warmer and warmer, eventually humans will event more efficient air conditioning or we die out. I'd wager AC since we've already accomplished it.
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EPT
