The universe IS "nothingness" or void, that was filled with matter. Everything is made of atoms, which themselves are made of a nucleus who has an electron cloud orbiting around it. The way it works leaves more space occupied by void between the nucleus and the electrons than space occupied by them both.
I like to see your human life as more or less the same principle, it's empty, and up to you to fill it with whatever meaning or sense you want to fill it with. It's up to you to live your life as you want to.
There is no reason for you to be here, no destiny, no bigger scheme or plan. You are just a tiny spec of matter who is born, lives, and dies in a flash, you don't have any importance or mission on earth. There is no end goal and nothing important happens to the rest of the universe or yourself when you are not here anymore.
For me seeing life this way allows you to live your life without fear or burdens, and you don't have a superior being to answer for your personal beliefs or life choices. THIS is true freedom.
Edit : More on point, as for life after death I believe what people call "soul" is our conscioussness, which is built around many areas of our brain and allows us to interact with the world. When your physical body dies, your conscioussness dies with it since it is stored in your brain.
See it like your brain is your computer (or to be more exact the whole hardware infrastructure supporting the internet), and your conscioussness is the internet, a flow of information originating from various sources. Bring down the interface and the information system disappears.
On May 26 2012 20:33 AUFKLARUNG wrote: I used to salivate over this discussions in the classroom and with friends over mugs and mugs of beer until sunrise, especially during my freshman year. But the more I "grow" into philosophy and the practical rigors of the discipline, I tend to veer away from these abstractions, which to my belief is the worst disservice that could be done to such a noble and useful profession. I believe in Philosophy as an act of enlightenment, as a device to make clear the problems we have on the many levels of our social involvement. The worst kind of philosophy for me is ones that deliberately or indeliberately obscure a problematique only because there are ambiguous philosophical borders to be exploited.
In this regard, I subscribe to Rorty, I paraphrase from memory: "language is a tool for social action, if it does not do this, it is mere wordplay".
Language is a tool for many things, most prominently (to me) representation. When language is not representing, it is usually doing something else.
Sadly though, I have little confidence that the language in the current debate succeeds either as a "tool for social action" or in representing anything in particular.
On May 26 2012 15:19 XeliN wrote: finally a thread that at least from the OP seems to try to conceive and deal with the problem of Nihilism honestly.
my perspective, or perhaps "intellectual" or "reasoned" perspective, because i didnt actually think this, yet could not honestly argue against it or dismiss it.
Is that life, morality, experience every single thing we might ascribe meaning or value to is completely and utterly meaningless.
There is no inherent "wrong" in say the brutal rape, abuse, and murder of an innocent child, because on what basis do you claim it to be wrong?
the only defence ive seen with any form of legitimacy is on the idea that it is innate to think the harming of children is wrong + Show Spoiler +
(or if my analogy were " there is no inherent wrong in the intentioned infliction of pain, humiliation, depression and anguish of another human being ", to detach it from an idea of a young innocent, but the point still stands)
but this is weak at best. and even if only 1 single person were to disagree with it and say "i dont think its innate" on what basis do you say they are wrong and you are right.
the only vague tenuous foundation ive managed to justify on which to found an idea of right and wrong, and an obligation to act is on the overt objective reality of our, and other peoples as well as the world around us' physicality. but even this often seems weak, even though i feel it has some merit to it.
Pseudo intellectual dribble, it took you so long to explain something simple. You use adjectives which aren't neccesarily suitable for the noun you are trying to describe.
Your argument is wrong, the definition of right and wrong comes from our evolutionary traits. It is counter productive in terms of evolution if we are beating on our peers. Thus our mind set defines what is right or wrong. Obviously there are grey areas, but there is a foundation in which you can legitimately say is right or wrong.
You got the thing. Precisely how people think things lke theses "philosophical" and "deep" are disturbing. This is a waste of time for waste of time sake. Nothingness is nothing. There is REAL LIFE to attend to kids, wake up!
On May 26 2012 22:21 KingAce wrote: We're all one in the same. Their is no you or I, this or that, everything is one. So I am nothing.
I'm curious, what makes you say that? I enjoy the perspective, though morbid so in the end I believe it is all nothingness, but we are not "nothing" in the sense of useless, but pure.
Please could you elaborate on why you think that we are all the same/there is no you or I? This is a thread of discussion, along with personal beliefs but I would enjoy it if you would put a little more effort into your post please.
On May 26 2012 22:21 KingAce wrote: We're all one in the same. Their is no you or I, this or that, everything is one. So I am nothing.
I'm curious, what makes you say that? I enjoy the perspective, though morbid so in the end I believe it is all nothingness, but we are not "nothing" in the sense of useless, but pure.
Please could you elaborate on why you think that we are all the same/there is no you or I? This is a thread of discussion, along with personal beliefs but I would enjoy it if you would put a little more effort into your post please.
Thank you.
I think its best to refer back to Alan Watts on this point maybe....
There is some VERY conrtaversial thinking in this piece
On May 26 2012 21:22 NeonFox wrote: The universe IS "nothingness" or void, that was filled with matter. Everything is made of atoms, which themselves are made of a nucleus who has an electron cloud orbiting around it. The way it works leaves more space occupied by void between the nucleus and the electrons than space occupied by them both.
I like to see your human life as more or less the same principle, it's empty, and up to you to fill it with whatever meaning or sense you want to fill it with. It's up to you to live your life as you want to.
There is no reason for you to be here, no destiny, no bigger scheme or plan. You are just a tiny spec of matter who is born, lives, and dies in a flash, you don't have any importance or mission on earth. There is no end goal and nothing important happens to the rest of the universe or yourself when you are not here anymore.
For me seeing life this way allows you to live your life without fear or burdens, and you don't have a superior being to answer for your personal beliefs or life choices. THIS is true freedom.
Edit : More on point, as for life after death I believe what people call "soul" is our conscioussness, which is built around many areas of our brain and allows us to interact with the world. When your physical body dies, your conscioussness dies with it since it is stored in your brain.
See it like your brain is your computer (or to be more exact the whole hardware infrastructure supporting the internet), and your conscioussness is the internet, a flow of information originating from various sources. Bring down the interface and the information system disappears.
Isn't it completely insane to believe that here, whatever here may may mean, there would even be the consideration that a small portion of whatever is void ? Whatever you may want to believe, talking about infinity and nothingness is pointless, the human mind can't fathom "it". We are defined by boundries, at least in this culture, if you are a "scientific" mind, you are extremely bound to a specific ideological platform.
Is there life after death ? We don't even know what either of the above are in fact.....why ask the question ? We have definitions, definitions created by a language who cannot express a huge part of human experiences.
I'm a simple guy who thinks about life, death, infinity, nothingness everyday in fact, even tho I know I can't understand these things....Most of the times I feel a bit dumb for not knowing some stuff other people know ( at my college for example ), but then again, they learned another language...Dunno, It's all weird to me. But still after the information that makes me a feel a bit inferior, there comes the trivial pointless talk who apparently is their main point of focus at the end of the day....Weird life.
By the way, don't decide what it is....because if you do, then you have already lost the "knowledge" game. The universe as I see it, as an uneducated mind is an ongoing evolving moving and transforming "thing", because if it were to stop...We would have been lost in "nothingness" an eternity ago.
Whatever, I only replied/wrote in this thread because these posts really make me wonder of how some people think...And why would you ever believe ( this is a commanding word, whatever you may "know", it's ultimately a belief since science already uses the word "models" for a few decades now since everything we thought was "right" is ultimately proven "wrong" sooner or later )
Anywyas, now talking about nothingness is very weird since we don't have a counter-particule to light.
On May 26 2012 21:22 NeonFox wrote: The universe IS "nothingness" or void, that was filled with matter. Everything is made of atoms, which themselves are made of a nucleus who has an electron cloud orbiting around it. The way it works leaves more space occupied by void between the nucleus and the electrons than space occupied by them both.
I like to see your human life as more or less the same principle, it's empty, and up to you to fill it with whatever meaning or sense you want to fill it with. It's up to you to live your life as you want to.
There is no reason for you to be here, no destiny, no bigger scheme or plan. You are just a tiny spec of matter who is born, lives, and dies in a flash, you don't have any importance or mission on earth. There is no end goal and nothing important happens to the rest of the universe or yourself when you are not here anymore.
For me seeing life this way allows you to live your life without fear or burdens, and you don't have a superior being to answer for your personal beliefs or life choices. THIS is true freedom.
Edit : More on point, as for life after death I believe what people call "soul" is our conscioussness, which is built around many areas of our brain and allows us to interact with the world. When your physical body dies, your conscioussness dies with it since it is stored in your brain.
See it like your brain is your computer (or to be more exact the whole hardware infrastructure supporting the internet), and your conscioussness is the internet, a flow of information originating from various sources. Bring down the interface and the information system disappears.
Isn't it completely insane to believe that here, whatever here may may mean, there would even be the consideration that a small portion of whatever is void ? Whatever you may want to believe, talking about infinity and nothingness is pointless, the human mind can't fathom "it". We are defined by boundries, at least in this culture, if you are a "scientific" mind, you are extremely bound to a specific ideological platform.
Is there life after death ? We don't even know what either of the above are in fact.....why ask the question ? We have definitions, definitions created by a language who cannot express a huge part of human experiences.
I'm a simple guy who thinks about life, death, infinity, nothingness everyday in fact, even tho I know I can't understand these things....Most of the times I feel a bit dumb for not knowing some stuff other people know ( at my college for example ), but then again, they learned another language...Dunno, It's all weird to me. But still after the information that makes me a feel a bit inferior, there comes the trivial pointless talk who apparently is their main point of focus at the end of the day....Weird life.
By the way, don't decide what it is....because if you do, then you have already lost the "knowledge" game. The universe as I see it, as an uneducated mind is an ongoing evolving moving and transforming "thing", because if it were to stop...We would have been lost in "nothingness" an eternity ago.
Whatever, I only replied/wrote in this thread because these posts really make me wonder of how some people think...And why would you ever believe ( this is a commanding word, whatever you may "know", it's ultimately a belief since science already uses the word "models" for a few decades now since everything we thought was "right" is ultimately proven "wrong" sooner or later )
Anywyas, now talking about nothingness is very weird since we don't have a counter-particule to light.
Oh this is only my opinion, not what I believe to be the absolute truth
Except the part where there is more emptiness than matter in an atom which is a scientific proved fact. And the latest research about consciousness points to the idea that it's a mesh in our brain and not located in a specific part.
As for the rest as I stated it's only opinion, I believe in facts, for the rest it's up to everybody to "fill in your life like you want" as I said. There's no way for us to know what's after death but to think you end up forever in a magical place in the sky is a bit ridiculous imo.
On May 26 2012 21:22 NeonFox wrote: The universe IS "nothingness" or void, that was filled with matter. Everything is made of atoms, which themselves are made of a nucleus who has an electron cloud orbiting around it. The way it works leaves more space occupied by void between the nucleus and the electrons than space occupied by them both.
I like to see your human life as more or less the same principle, it's empty, and up to you to fill it with whatever meaning or sense you want to fill it with. It's up to you to live your life as you want to.
There is no reason for you to be here, no destiny, no bigger scheme or plan. You are just a tiny spec of matter who is born, lives, and dies in a flash, you don't have any importance or mission on earth. There is no end goal and nothing important happens to the rest of the universe or yourself when you are not here anymore.
For me seeing life this way allows you to live your life without fear or burdens, and you don't have a superior being to answer for your personal beliefs or life choices. THIS is true freedom.
Edit : More on point, as for life after death I believe what people call "soul" is our conscioussness, which is built around many areas of our brain and allows us to interact with the world. When your physical body dies, your conscioussness dies with it since it is stored in your brain.
See it like your brain is your computer (or to be more exact the whole hardware infrastructure supporting the internet), and your conscioussness is the internet, a flow of information originating from various sources. Bring down the interface and the information system disappears.
Isn't it completely insane to believe that here, whatever here may may mean, there would even be the consideration that a small portion of whatever is void ? Whatever you may want to believe, talking about infinity and nothingness is pointless, the human mind can't fathom "it". We are defined by boundries, at least in this culture, if you are a "scientific" mind, you are extremely bound to a specific ideological platform.
Is there life after death ? We don't even know what either of the above are in fact.....why ask the question ? We have definitions, definitions created by a language who cannot express a huge part of human experiences.
I'm a simple guy who thinks about life, death, infinity, nothingness everyday in fact, even tho I know I can't understand these things....Most of the times I feel a bit dumb for not knowing some stuff other people know ( at my college for example ), but then again, they learned another language...Dunno, It's all weird to me. But still after the information that makes me a feel a bit inferior, there comes the trivial pointless talk who apparently is their main point of focus at the end of the day....Weird life.
By the way, don't decide what it is....because if you do, then you have already lost the "knowledge" game. The universe as I see it, as an uneducated mind is an ongoing evolving moving and transforming "thing", because if it were to stop...We would have been lost in "nothingness" an eternity ago.
Whatever, I only replied/wrote in this thread because these posts really make me wonder of how some people think...And why would you ever believe ( this is a commanding word, whatever you may "know", it's ultimately a belief since science already uses the word "models" for a few decades now since everything we thought was "right" is ultimately proven "wrong" sooner or later )
Anywyas, now talking about nothingness is very weird since we don't have a counter-particule to light.
Oh this is only my opinion, not what I believe to be the absolute truth
Except the part where there is more emptiness than matter in an atom which is a scientific proved fact. And the latest research about consciousness points to the idea that it's a mesh in our brain and not located in a specific part.
As for the rest as I stated it's only opinion, I believe in facts, for the rest it's up to everybody to "fill in your life like you want" as I said. There's no way for us to know what's after death but to think you end up forever in a magical place in the sky is a bit ridiculous imo.
facts change tho...even tho I don't believe in God, it would seem as well as unexpected for "us" to be stop existing altogether as well as going to meet a magical guy in the sky. Everything is possible when you talk about such topics. The most interesting thing to me is the DMT experience, and the fact that your judgement is completely not affected in that state even tho everything turns in everything you couldn't have imagined up until that point.
Also our ego is weird as well.....ego seeks closure, but it is afraid of death so it might build ideologies which would make you immortal, however in the same time, the ego searches closure, which means also a finalization of experience.....Weirdy weirdy....
On May 27 2012 02:35 Wampaibist wrote: I will always exist during the time I existed. What we do in live echoes in eternity.
Sounds like a quote from Troy : P Can you elaborate perhaps a bit deeper on your first line? "I will always exist during the time I exist"
Do you mean that before, you are nothing and after you are nothing? Do you mean void, or something greater?
haha the last part is a quote from the movie gladiator, which I like a lot.
As long as the universe exists time will exist. As long as time exists there was a period of time in which I was alive. To me, I will always be alive during that time, because I existed during that period. I won't (most likely) be conscious after I die, but the time I was alive will always be a period in time. So my existence after I die is based that as long as time exists I was apart of it . I hope what I said made a bit of sense, I'm by no means a philosopher or a great thinker so it may sound dumb to many. Ultimately it comes down to me as soothing that only the universe ending can take away my existence, even as short and insignificant as my life may be.
For me it all doesn't make sense. I was raised Catholic but have been doing a bunch of research in to the whole Universe/Existential/Death topic and to be honest both the religious argument and scientific argument have equal pull in my mind.
(Before I continue, I must say that I've given up on the Bible-God being the real god, because there are simply too many bullcrap parts in the bible for me to believe that such a being would create humans with the possibility of being gay and then banish them from Heaven for it. So when I say the ''religious'' argument, I mean a Higher Power, a Creator, not someone that was created by humans.)
Essentially, science says that the Big Bang created everything out of basically nothing (I know this is a very simplistic version of the definition but I'm trying to keep things simple) and so for me to believe that nothing became everything is just about as crazy as believing that someone created all this for some greater purpose. This is why I don't look down on theists or atheists, both beliefs are credible in my opinion.
So I leave it at that. Whatever happens happens. We're NEVER going to be able to figure it out so we might as well live this life to the fullest and see what happens. I'll tell you one thing though; I'll be equally scared and excited if I know I'm told I have X amount of time left to live. Not because I'm suicidal or anything, but because death will be the greatest adventure ever.
edit: not really a fan of sharing my views because they can be a little "out there" + Show Spoiler +
I enjoy reading through this thread very much. I don't think I grasped the concept of "nothingness" like the way most of you have, but I would love to share the kind of views I'm attracted to. I'm very eclectic and my philosophy is forever molding and never complete. I have also been dabbling in New Thought a lot lately.
New Thought, is the basis of all religious beliefs which is "believing". (i.e: We find what we seek, we receive what we ask for, we get what we expect, we are what we think we are, etc etc etc etc.) What we experience is a mirror reflection of all the information we have gathered, decisions we have made, logic we have been nurtured into, and things we focus on. Prayer, mantra, affirmations.. all of that are basically the same thing. Some call it luck, some call it chance, some point fingers at god, some point fingers at science. Basically, everything we experience is our interpretations because everything is energy. Maybe, nothingness == everything.
Concept seems pretty simple, but to me, all of this is very psychological. I brought this up because I wanted to explain that everything is biased and debating for the "truth" is irrelevant because we speak from our own reality (all the information we attracted based upon our beliefs). I do, however, believe we are constantly learning from each other's different POVs but never from each other's condescension.
Not really relevant to the idea I have presented, I would also like to share my views on god and the unknown. I do believe in the omnipresence of a superior "thing". So incredibly vast and present, it's hard to be conceptualized by man. Like, maybe science is the language of god and phenomenons are the rest of him yet to be discovered. I feel that the purpose of life, the concept of the afterlife, and the existence of god is none of our business. We started off quite agnostic about those three when we were born. Maybe we exist because we don't know why we exist and thus, we have no other choice but to make choices for ourselves. In conclusion, I don't know and you probably don't care. Let's party.
This thread is very full of opinions, but no reasoning for these opinions. Where are you getting this information that you believe in? What are you appealing to , to get all this information? What makes this appeal justifiable?
This is a rather dumbed down speech by Watts. It has always struck me that Buddhism stresses No-thing-ness rather than Nothingness. The idea is that idea of "things" as substances in and of themselves, as per Aristotle, is misguided, and that reality is a complex Worlding, as Heidegger would put it, of inderdepentent phenomena. Is in this sense that Buddhism speaks about No-thing-ness, specially in regards to the Self, rather than Nothingness.
This has been a rather obnoxious problem in the encounter of Eastern and Western traditions. People with a Western background inevitably find Buddhism nihilist because in their horizon nothingness is the negation of Being, whilst for the Eastern tradition No-thing-ness is a refination in respect to the perception and understanding of Being and beings.
EPT
