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A) After watching the video, what do you take away from it? Do you agree, or disagree? Does it affect your own belief structure? (if it doesn't, that is totally fine!) B) What do you think will happen when you die? When family members die? (Please, you can just say what you think, but try and back this up with something (religion/science/void etc... literally anything, but I kind of want this to be deeper than just "well I hope this is what happens", this isn't about what you hope, but what you think) C) Do you believe that Alan Watts has a valid point? Does our universe come from nothingness, and that all of our petty fears don't truly matter because in the end it's all nothingness? (off topic slightly, but based on how all our achievements are nothing but dust, "monopoly from zeitgeist" + Show Spoiler + so it may be interesting to listen to.
A) I take nothing from the video. I don't agree with the proposed concept, but I can respect the perspective in some zen sort of way. People destroy themselves every day from irrelevant outside sources.
B) I believe that sentience is a unique and profound gift. Our choices, which boil down to the deepest acceptance of a given observation, shape the universe at a quantum level. Some theories suggest that there are an infinite number of parallel universes stacked on one another, each differing from a divergence in probabilistic scenarios. I believe that our consciousnesses are navigating through this with each of our observations and in turn our actions. My belief lends itself to the idea that our minds are essentially disconnected from one specific universe, and therefore are a form of energy not entirely understood as of yet. That said; when people die I don't think that energy just goes away.
C) No. Our universe does not come from nothing. The rules and causes of it's formation are under scientific question, but the contents and physical properties of our universe point to something before the big bang. I guess semantics could be argued as anything defined outside our space-time continuum can be seen as nothing if it does not fit into our dimensional understanding and comprehension. Fears, hopes or any other emotion are not nothing. They are a driving force to actions, and actions that affect living beings can never be disregarded as nothing.
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Hey sorry this is a little off topic, but earlier someone linked a site called thebigview.com
does anyone know other sites like this? Sites that discuss different philosophies, perspectives on life, consciousness, etc
And I guess to add in, from my personal perspective, nothingness can't really be defined, by reasonable standards. It's purely conceptual, but it is interesting that we can try to conceptualize and make use of our limited definition of it.
have you guys ever tried to think of nothing? lol, it's impossible. I tried once and i sat there for a while just thinking of the word nothing, or just blank empty space, but then in the end you're still thinking of something. Even if it's just about the concepts "nothing" or "blank empty space" bahaha
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No thing is nothing. Everything is something by virtue of being a thing.
I find that I cannot bring myself to believe anything other than death is the end, without an afterlife or metaphysical 'energy'. I hold this view because it seems to me the most elegant and likely scenario. I don't ascribe special significance to sentience, except as a fascinating phenomena. I am fine with the concept of the arisal of such complexity as human intellect, from a huge multitude of relatively simple systems. We see huge amounts of complexity in everyday life, all arising from relatively simple physics. I find it takes a relatively small leap to extend that to the human mind.
Weather or not something matters is a very personal thing. It is easy to say that, ultimately at the heat death of the universe, nothing matters (and indeed, everything is therefore nothing), but in the meantime people live and die, oceans rise and fall etc, and it is up to oneself to decide what is important, and what it nothing.
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On May 31 2012 10:37 Focuspants wrote:
Meditation doesnt work for me. I am under extreme pressure in my daily life, and struggle with stress, anxiety and even depression. However, I am wired to think through everything I do analytically and extensively, and I am incapable of bringing myself to a point of mental calmness. The closest thing to meditation that works for me is listening to music. It is one of the only things I can somewhat lose myself in. I wish I could make it work, it would certainly be helpful.
As for ascribing a creator to your beliefs, you originally described matter very anthropomorphically, and ascribed human traits to it. When you said atoms have minds, and "purposefully" brought us into existence, it really wreaks of a creator. After you amended your statement above, it makes a little more sense. I dont personally agree that there is any "purpose" behind matter forming itself and evolving into modern day human beings, as that would mean that it has an end which we are the means to. There are too many things that are without "purpose" in existence. For us as 1 small unlikely but existent group of complex beings to be proof of a "plan" would be to ignore everywhere else that is uninhabitable, and without complex life as counter evidence for your claim.
I think we agree on everything except the concept of matter with "purpose".
I have the same problems as you and have difficulty feeling at ease but I urge you to even try walking/standing meditation. http://www.wildmind.org/walking/introduction
Even if you can try to meditate it will go a long ways to improving the strength of your mind (being able to deal with stress, anxiety, and depression). I'm sure that after doing it long enough you can have enough control of your mind to not allow stress, anxiety, or depression get to you. Also, thanks to the person that recommended the two Buddhist scriptures for me to read (I think they're scriptures). I checked them out on wiki and they seem very, very insightful and I will be reading them eventually. .
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Contribution -
I am a soul trapped in a pessimistic tide pulling me deep, into a sea of nothing. All I want to do, is hold my head under water, drift away into these blank thoughts. I question my own insecurities, challenge my consciousness. These two equally cursed variables dictate my free will. It's like together they become a second level of mind, using one thought to track another. Making decisions of pure instinct that one cannot see. It's comforting to know that there is no significance in these actions I make. It makes me feel free, if just for a moment. People are not used to thinking that we have no obligations. But if my actions have no significance then there can be no obligations. That is a liberating thought. Why should anyone want more than the simple ability to pick up a piece of paper?
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Your consciousness was a concept that confounded people. They didn't understand how you could be you, and not somebody else. They didn't understand what makes you exist inside your being. They called it a "soul".
We know better now. You are your brain. It is a powerful and profound thing of organic chemistry, a consciousness, but that's all it is.
I've lost family and friends. It's silly, and in my opinion, insulting to say they're somehow "still alive" in some soft of afterlife. No, they're dead, and their brains are no longer functioning. They are gone. That is all.
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Sometimes I am tempted to act as if everything is nothing.
But considering all the things I have been through as a Christian I am no longer able to believe that there are not some things which truly means something regardless of the shiftings of time.
When I met Jesus I feel as I was given value. Not something that is valuable just to me, but rather objectively. In my experience, God is the absolute that gives everything else an intrinsic value. I believe this value goes outside the realm of time, it makes everything else worth it because it is something eternal in a finite world.
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On June 03 2012 13:30 Leporello wrote:
Your consciousness was a concept that confounded people. They didn't understand how you could be you, and not somebody else. They didn't understand what makes you exist inside your being. They called it a "soul".
We know better now. You are your brain. It is a powerful and profound thing of organic chemistry, a consciousness, but that's all it is.
I've lost family and friends. It's silly, and in my opinion, insulting to say they're somehow "still alive" in some soft of afterlife. No, they're dead, and their brains are no longer functioning. They are gone. That is all.
The consciousness isn't even understood yet, do you have evidence that our consciousness is just organic chemistry?
My belief is (this is a common Buddhist belief too) is in reincarnation. If the universe is truly eternal than we will live infinite lives and already have in our consciousness. If you came to live the life you're living now by pure chance why cant it happen again? I believe that life is eternal and that death doesn't exist just like how color doesn't exist to a dog or 3D vision doesn't exist to a bat. We're blind to what really happens by our own ignorance in the senses and how undeveloped they are.
Hell the majority of society still thinks that the only thing that matters is altering matter to make it somehow better creating a false sense of accomplishment by turning matter that has already and will always exist into another piece of matter, which in the mean time only creates suffering. Suffering will always exist until you train your mind to learn that altering matter and living a materialistic lifestyle is actually detrimental to your mental well being.
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On June 09 2012 10:12 Sovern wrote:Show nested quote +On June 03 2012 13:30 Leporello wrote:
Your consciousness was a concept that confounded people. They didn't understand how you could be you, and not somebody else. They didn't understand what makes you exist inside your being. They called it a "soul".
We know better now. You are your brain. It is a powerful and profound thing of organic chemistry, a consciousness, but that's all it is.
I've lost family and friends. It's silly, and in my opinion, insulting to say they're somehow "still alive" in some soft of afterlife. No, they're dead, and their brains are no longer functioning. They are gone. That is all. The consciousness isn't even understood yet, do you have evidence that our consciousness is just organic chemistry? My belief is (this is a common Buddhist belief too) is in reincarnation. If the universe is truly eternal than we will live infinite lives and already have in our consciousness. If you came to live the life you're living now by pure chance why cant it happen again? I believe that life is eternal and that death doesn't exist just like how color doesn't exist to a dog or 3D vision doesn't exist to a bat. We're blind to what really happens by our own ignorance in the senses and how undeveloped they are. Hell the majority of society still thinks that the only thing that matters is altering matter to make it somehow better creating a false sense of accomplishment by turning matter that has already and will always exist into another piece of matter, which in the mean time only creates suffering. Suffering will always exist until you train your mind to learn that altering matter and living a materialistic lifestyle is actually detrimental to your mental well being.
Remember, "beliefs" shouldn't be referred to as silly (especially in this thread)
Regarding your opinion, what is conscience? "complex" chemistry doesn't come close to describe it... Scientists are starting to believe the workings inside your head are similar to holograms, which includes the recent memory tests on mice (where they teach a group of mice a track, they learn the track 100%, and they begin removing bits of the brain of the mice until finally the entire brain (additive among pieces cut from different section of each mouse) is cut out and the mouse still remembers the course.
So, maybe you shouldn't jump to "insane chemistry" all at once, at least right now since we know so little about intelligence.
Also, regarding the second quotation, I believe it's faulty to compare materialism and purpose. Obviously, following buddha, life is suffering but he aids that suffering via moderation (one of his main principles that he learned from the four truths, following becoming a monk and then finding moderation) in which everything should be done in moderation. So materialistic gains should follow this principle
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Well.. we really don't KNOW for sure what stuff is like outide of our universe's "bubble" (our universe's properties could be completely different than others"), thus nothing could be completely different in different bubble's.
.. but if you read "A Universe from Nothing" by Lawrence Krauss you can easily understand how completely complex "Nothingness" is. I recommend that to anyone and everyone.
I guess the answer would be, nothing doesn't exist. Even in the emptiest void of space, there will still be potential energy (dark energy) that comes from particles popping in and out of existence.
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On June 22 2012 08:14 -Exalt- wrote:
Well.. we really don't KNOW for sure what stuff is like outide of our universe's "bubble" (our universe's properties could be completely different than others"), thus nothing could be completely different in different bubble's.
.. but if you read "A Universe from Nothing" by Lawrence Krauss you can easily understand how completely complex "Nothingness" is. I recommend that to anyone and everyone.
I guess the answer would be, nothing doesn't exist. Even in the emptiest void of space, there will still be potential energy (dark energy) that comes from particles popping in and out of existence.
Interesting, if you have any other compelling books/videos etc you can post here or msg me and I will update the main thread with a list or video with your quotation (note front page)
I will read that
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EPT
