The Free World Charter - Page 74
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AdrianHealey
Belgium480 Posts
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DeepElemBlues
United States5079 Posts
Haha now the scottish historians are liars because what was being said didnt fit your world view? Suprise suprise That video doesn't say what you say it says, you can link to it all you want but what I heard was that Smith was against war profiteering and the use of fraud and deceit in contracts to put people into debt. Neither thing is considered acceptable practice under capitalist principles or the principles of any other economic system either. Even though the video tries to generalize to sound more anti-capitalist than the truth, it still doesn't say what you say it does. Im not an expert on Adam smith or the scottish enlightment but it shocks me that my general knowledge trumps people who specialized in the subject. My advice is learn more about how the world works. And as far as i know basic litterature teach you to analyze the book by its author and the enviorment he was in. We're all also amazed by how many things you know that aren't so. Trumped indeed. And please stop stroking that in public it's not polite. | ||
JonnyBNoHo
United States6277 Posts
On May 28 2012 04:49 DeliCiousVP wrote: ![]() Wut? I thought we were being promised abundance and that things will be free? This picture implies that we should be happy with less... what gives? Could this all be a lie?! | ||
AdrianHealey
Belgium480 Posts
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DeliCiousVP
Sweden343 Posts
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AdrianHealey
Belgium480 Posts
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JonnyBNoHo
United States6277 Posts
On May 28 2012 05:39 DeliCiousVP wrote: I will start talking about technology instead and the possible applications they have, I can see it being more useful for all of us and break this "opinion" cycle. will edit in a sec. Shouldn't random chatting about technology be in a different thread? | ||
AdrianHealey
Belgium480 Posts
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JonnyBNoHo
United States6277 Posts
3D Systems Corporation makes them. They are a publicly traded company listed as DDD. http://www.3dsystems.com/ The Economist had a special on the topic back in April and they've been running articles on the topic for years. | ||
DeliCiousVP
Sweden343 Posts
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Crushinator
Netherlands2138 Posts
On May 28 2012 09:01 DeliCiousVP wrote: For transportation we want Vac-trains which is a form of maglev technology, Puting the train in a vaccum filled tube allows for super-sonic travel and speed up to 8000km/h teoreticly. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vactrain http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maglev We have people developing and testing this stuff in switzerland aswel the chinese are also trying out forms of vac-train technology. Obviously it is very monetary expensive but not as resource expensive. Maglev video Concept video for vactrain So what makes the ''resource expenses'' less than the ''montary expenses''? Magic gonna make shit cost less when we get rid of money? Real values are going to decrease when we get rid of nominal measures? Proving that will surely win you a nobel prize. | ||
HellRoxYa
Sweden1614 Posts
On May 28 2012 09:01 DeliCiousVP wrote: For transportation we want Vac-trains which is a form of maglev technology, Puting the train in a vaccum filled tube allows for super-sonic travel and speed up to 8000km/h teoreticly. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vactrain http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maglev We have people developing and testing this stuff in switzerland aswel the chinese are also trying out forms of vac-train technology. Obviously it is very monetary expensive but not as resource expensive. + Show Spoiler + Maglev video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aIwbrZ4knpg Concept video for vactrain http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rx9EVTg95eM Automated food production, and advanced hydroponics. According to the Institute of Simplified Hydroponics, a group of impoverished children in India has developed a 20 square meter hydroponic garden that produces 730 kg/year(1). If these yields were scaled to a full acre, those yields could increase to ~147,000 kg/acre(2). Using orbitropism, increased CO2 concentrations in the air, and LED lighting, yields could theoretically increase to between ~800,000 to ~1,500,000 kg/acre(3). By adding fulvic acid and gibberellin, yields could increase further. Aeroponic variants have demonstrated an 80% increase in production on top of standard hydroponic yields. With these estimates, it is theoretically possible to produce between 1.8 to 3 million kg/acre(4) – between 180 to 300 times 2007 production, enough to feed a few thousand people every year – and with vertical farming, these yields could be increased linearly. If 4.2 billion acres(5) were required to produce 1.3 thousand kg of food for each living person in 2007, the amount of land used for agricultural means could be dramatically reduced to as little as 3.5 million acres without stacking crops(6), to 1.75 million acres using 2 stacks(6), to 700,000 acres using 5 stacks(6), to 350,000 acres using 10 stacks(6), etc. Using advanced aeroponic facilities and vertical farming, it is physically possible to feed an entire city of up to a million people using only 10 acres of land and 50 stacks(7) – if the population increases, simply add more vertical stacks. Sources + Show Spoiler + http://www.nass.usda.gov/Publications/Ag_Statistics/2009/chp04.pdf http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:ezRcpPE6EGwJ:www.carbon.org/senegal/india1.doc&cd=4&hl=en http://www.omegagarden.com/index.php?content_id=1521 http://homeharvest.com/carbondioxideenrichment.htm http://www.greenhousecanada.com/content/view/1562/38/ http://www.hydroponics.com/howtoinfo/hydroponics articles/gold_fulvic.html http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gibberellin http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydroponics#Aeroponics http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vertical_farming + Show Spoiler + Automated hydroponic lettuce aka "The sallad factory" Concept art for vertical farming aka "Skyfarming" ![]() ![]() So, why is it "monetary expensive" but not "resource expensive"? Give me a full breakdown here, I'm super curious. | ||
DeliCiousVP
Sweden343 Posts
So, why is it "monetary expensive" but not "resource expensive"? Give me a full breakdown here, I'm super curious. Because of the incentive to manipulate markets to gain a profit. Such as projected scarcity, Strategic patent blocking, Lack of monetary gain from solving a problem to name a few, Can, That incentive for this exist makes the system unreliable as does certain "statistics" coming from it aswel. I will focus more on technology right now Ignoring monetary cost and only recognizing Resource cost which is not to be considered the same. If you have issues recognizing this fact do please play a "hypotheticall" experminent with me in which you are having a "psychosis" that assumes this. | ||
JonnyBNoHo
United States6277 Posts
On May 28 2012 09:24 DeliCiousVP wrote: Could you guys not qoute it with all the pictures in it takes alot of space. just mark it copy it and add qoutation marks. Because of the incentive to manipulate markets to gain a profit. Such as projected scarcity, Strategic patent blocking, Lack of monetary gain from solving a problem to name a few. I will focus more on technology right now Ignoring monetary cost and only recognizing Resource cost which is not to be considered the same. If you have issues recognizing this fact do please play a "hypotheticall" experminent with me in which you are having a "psychosis" that assumes this. So how do you calculate 'resource cost'? I think we've been asking for the math on that for 30+ pages now. | ||
HenryHazlitt
United States34 Posts
1) Assume infinite resources. 2) Since we have infinite resources, there no scarcity. Thus, economic calculation is irrelevant. 3) Since economic calculation is irrelevant, prices are irrelevant. 4) Since prices are irrelevant, we should abolish money. Given that premise 1 is true, his argument is actually valid. The problem, of course, is that premise 1 is incredibly ridiculous. I mean, I've seen some pretty ridiculous assumptions being in econ grad school and all, but this is some next level shit. The problem with this thread is that we can't even agree on the most basic premises. What is the point of asking someone about economic calculation when they can just assume away the problem by positing infinite resources? | ||
DeliCiousVP
Sweden343 Posts
On May 28 2012 09:51 JonnyBNoHo wrote: So how do you calculate 'resource cost'? I think we've been asking for the math on that for 30+ pages now. The planets carrying capacity that is how much resources we can get per year using the most advanced and efficient technology available and the yearly revjuvination of the planet for example. We demand X earth provides Y We recycle Z amount If XZ is higher than Y we are okay. if XZ is higher than Y We would even further prioritize Substitue, Investigate possible value shifts and technology regarding maximizing potential usage recycling and extraction methods(If in a emergancy we can deplete earths resources) If this answer is not enough for you, And you want an even more advanced and further detailed answer i can ask the enginners. That being said if you do belive that the monetary system is calculating and managing resource cost efficently and practical you are not worth their time. | ||
Toasterbaked
United States160 Posts
Keep in mind, everything being discussed on this page has already been discussed in previous pages. Question is when this guy is going to actually absorb the fact laid on him... Rejuvenate the planet. Sounds like a piece of cake. Step 1: Abolish money Step 2: ? Step 3: Rejuvinate planet! Also, we have to recycle enough to meet the entire planet's demands? Awesome! Someone wrecked a car. Let's recycle it! *waves magic wand* Brand new car! *remembers it takes resources to recycle* Your answer was so irrelevant to his post that it isn't even funny. He's talking about calculating resource cost, you're talking about recycling. | ||
JonnyBNoHo
United States6277 Posts
On May 28 2012 10:15 DeliCiousVP wrote: The planets carrying capacity that is how much resources we can get per year using the most advanced and efficient technology available and the yearly revjuvination of the planet for example. We demand X earth provides Y We recycle Z amount If XZ is higher than Y we are okay. if XZ is higher than Y We would even further prioritize Substitue, Investigate possible value shifts and technology regarding maximizing potential usage recycling and extraction methods(If in a emergancy we can deplete earths resources) If this answer is not enough for you, And you want an even more advanced and further detailed answer i can ask the enginners. That being said if you do belive that the monetary system is calculating and managing resource cost efficently and practical you are not worth their time. Ok thanks. Clearly you have no answer. There is no such thing as the 'carrying capacity' of how much iron we can extract out of the earth. There is no 'carrying capacity' for an oil refinery's capacity... etc, etc, etc. A resource based economy remains a mathematical impossibility. FYI everyone, DeliCiousVP has created is own thread. I guess that means this thread can now be murdered and it's head placed on a spike, as a warning to future generations that there is nothing more destructive than stupid. | ||
xeo1
United States429 Posts
On May 28 2012 11:16 JonnyBNoHo wrote: Ok thanks. Clearly you have no answer. There is no such thing as the 'carrying capacity' of how much iron we can extract out of the earth. There is no 'carrying capacity' for an oil refinery's capacity... etc, etc, etc. A resource based economy remains a mathematical impossibility. FYI everyone, DeliCiousVP has created is own thread. I guess that means this thread can now be murdered and it's head placed on a spike, as a warning to future generations that there is nothing more destructive than stupid. http://endofcapitalism.files.wordpress.com/2008/10/exponent.jpg warning for future generations: avoid capitalism at all costs | ||
HellRoxYa
Sweden1614 Posts
On May 29 2012 09:48 xeo1 wrote: http://endofcapitalism.files.wordpress.com/2008/10/exponent.jpg warning for future generations: avoid capitalism at all costs I'm pretty sure the two are correlated. You know, more people means more consumption. I'm going to assume, then, that you are against capitalism and for genocide. Only then can you revert to pre-1900 levels. | ||
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