On September 20 2012 04:25 SayGen wrote: Obama put the HC bill into effect dispite it lacking popular vote; and now my taxes are now getting rasied 675$+ annually. He said he wouldn't rasie taxes on the middle class (Under 250K a year household income)
This is a terrible example, because it assumes a refusal to sign up for health care coverage, and doesn't acknowledge the bipartisan compromises Obama was forced to make per that issue.
No I'm not assuming a refusal to sign up for Obama care, I am Refusing. It's stupid and shows a lack of competency. I'd be better off sticking to me current plan of setting aside 300$/month into a privite non-taxable account that gains intrest. Oh wait I can't do that anymore, cause I have to take that 300$ and give it to the government in exchange for.....nothing.
Who wants to sign up for some greedy heath insurance plan that has restrictions, 100 pages of paperwork and disclaimers, only covers certain procedures, etc. Why should I get screwed over cause I am take care of myself? Why is it ok to Lie to people?
It's the only example that one needs to know why he shouln't be elected. No one should trust a liar with the most powerful seat of the free world.
If you're core qualification for presidency is honesty, than you DEFINITELY should NOT vote for Mitt Romney.
PS. You plan of saving $300 a month stinks. It will never cover any serious injury or terminal illness, for you or someone you care about.
Who said anything about Romney? I hate him too. I just hate Obama worse cause he is raising my taxes over 675$ and screwing my life over since I won't be able to go to a hospital if I'm sick and be guaranteed help. I don't want to die before its my time and now I can't do anytihng about it. Obama has signed my death. Politicans should not be able those types of decesions.
Sounds like Obama literally killed you.
Kwark, somedays I really think he is trying to be the death of me. I hate feeling that way. I have fought for 'Freedom' for 5+ years now, and it's a shame that I'm less free today than I was 5 years ago. I'm willing to die for my countryman on a battlefield, and this is how they repay me? forcing me to accept bad insurance, unable to determine my own fate.
Out of curiosity (NOT BAIT), have you ever been injured or sick?
Yes, I had to pay 7000$ for braking my left arm. now lets do some math. 23 years old. 300$ put aside since 18. 5 years=60Months 60X300= 18000 18000-7000= 1100 extra. NOT INCLUDING the TAX FREE intrest i've gained while holding onto my HC account.
Yes there is, now instead of private business the government is in charge. One has to compete to offer the best product. One just raises taxes if it falls short of the bottom line one month.
which one is more likly to be optomized?
No, health insurance is still mediated by private business, the government has simply remedied what was a market failure by controlling (some of) the market conditions.
So what's your healthcare plan? For everyone to become millionaires and buy immortality?
You're confusing healthcare tourism for healthcare coverage and effectiveness. I can point to the endless amount of anecdotes from Americans that were flat-out denied coverage due to pre-existing conditions, or delayed or avoided healthcare they desperately needed because they couldn't afford it.
Canada's healthcare system is better than America's. Canada's healthcare system is better than America's. Canada's healthcare system is better than America's.
You should take that $300 you've been saving every month and consider moving to Canada. It would save that life of yours that Obama has destroyed.
Truth be told. I have to say ur right about ur little rant. Canada does NOW have a better HC system than America.
But HC pre Obama in America > X100000 Canada HC
I love the thought behind it UHC but it doens't work in the real world. Hard working people like me just got the shaft. I will no longer be able to fund my own HC. If I get an Illness that isn't covered under OBAMACARE, I'm dead. Least I can say I tried. I stood in oposition proudly.
On September 20 2012 04:25 SayGen wrote: Obama put the HC bill into effect dispite it lacking popular vote; and now my taxes are now getting rasied 675$+ annually. He said he wouldn't rasie taxes on the middle class (Under 250K a year household income)
This is a terrible example, because it assumes a refusal to sign up for health care coverage, and doesn't acknowledge the bipartisan compromises Obama was forced to make per that issue.
No I'm not assuming a refusal to sign up for Obama care, I am Refusing. It's stupid and shows a lack of competency. I'd be better off sticking to me current plan of setting aside 300$/month into a privite non-taxable account that gains intrest. Oh wait I can't do that anymore, cause I have to take that 300$ and give it to the government in exchange for.....nothing.
Who wants to sign up for some greedy heath insurance plan that has restrictions, 100 pages of paperwork and disclaimers, only covers certain procedures, etc. Why should I get screwed over cause I am take care of myself? Why is it ok to Lie to people?
It's the only example that one needs to know why he shouln't be elected. No one should trust a liar with the most powerful seat of the free world.
If you're core qualification for presidency is honesty, than you DEFINITELY should NOT vote for Mitt Romney.
PS. You plan of saving $300 a month stinks. It will never cover any serious injury or terminal illness, for you or someone you care about.
Who said anything about Romney? I hate him too. I just hate Obama worse cause he is raising my taxes over 675$ and screwing my life over since I won't be able to go to a hospital if I'm sick and be guaranteed help. I don't want to die before its my time and now I can't do anytihng about it. Obama has signed my death. Politicans should not be able those types of decesions.
Sounds like Obama literally killed you.
Kwark, somedays I really think he is trying to be the death of me. I hate feeling that way. I have fought for 'Freedom' for 5+ years now, and it's a shame that I'm less free today than I was 5 years ago. I'm willing to die for my countryman on a battlefield, and this is how they repay me? forcing me to accept bad insurance, unable to determine my own fate.
Out of curiosity (NOT BAIT), have you ever been injured or sick?
Yes, I had to pay 7000$ for braking my left arm. now lets do some math. 23 years old. 300$ put aside since 18. 5 years=60Months 60X300= 18000 18000-7000= 1100 extra. NOT INCLUDING the TAX FREE intrest i've gained while holding onto my HC account.
It is wise not to include the interest, because there would be almost none.
Yes there is, now instead of private business the government is in charge. One has to compete to offer the best product. One just raises taxes if it falls short of the bottom line one month.
which one is more likly to be optomized?
No, health insurance is still mediated by private business, the government has simply remedied what was a market failure by controlling (some of) the market conditions.
I'm intrested in hearing about this *no sarcasm* Can you eleborate. What is the government controlling. What have they stopped/added.
On September 20 2012 04:25 SayGen wrote: Obama put the HC bill into effect dispite it lacking popular vote; and now my taxes are now getting rasied 675$+ annually. He said he wouldn't rasie taxes on the middle class (Under 250K a year household income)
This is a terrible example, because it assumes a refusal to sign up for health care coverage, and doesn't acknowledge the bipartisan compromises Obama was forced to make per that issue.
No I'm not assuming a refusal to sign up for Obama care, I am Refusing. It's stupid and shows a lack of competency. I'd be better off sticking to me current plan of setting aside 300$/month into a privite non-taxable account that gains intrest. Oh wait I can't do that anymore, cause I have to take that 300$ and give it to the government in exchange for.....nothing.
Who wants to sign up for some greedy heath insurance plan that has restrictions, 100 pages of paperwork and disclaimers, only covers certain procedures, etc. Why should I get screwed over cause I am take care of myself? Why is it ok to Lie to people?
It's the only example that one needs to know why he shouln't be elected. No one should trust a liar with the most powerful seat of the free world.
If you're core qualification for presidency is honesty, than you DEFINITELY should NOT vote for Mitt Romney.
PS. You plan of saving $300 a month stinks. It will never cover any serious injury or terminal illness, for you or someone you care about.
Who said anything about Romney? I hate him too. I just hate Obama worse cause he is raising my taxes over 675$ and screwing my life over since I won't be able to go to a hospital if I'm sick and be guaranteed help. I don't want to die before its my time and now I can't do anytihng about it. Obama has signed my death. Politicans should not be able those types of decesions.
Sounds like Obama literally killed you.
Kwark, somedays I really think he is trying to be the death of me. I hate feeling that way. I have fought for 'Freedom' for 5+ years now, and it's a shame that I'm less free today than I was 5 years ago. I'm willing to die for my countryman on a battlefield, and this is how they repay me? forcing me to accept bad insurance, unable to determine my own fate.
Out of curiosity (NOT BAIT), have you ever been injured or sick?
Yes, I had to pay 7000$ for braking my left arm. now lets do some math. 23 years old. 300$ put aside since 18. 5 years=60Months 60X300= 18000 18000-7000= 1100 extra. NOT INCLUDING the TAX FREE intrest i've gained while holding onto my HC account.
It is wise not to include the interest, because there would be almost none.
Some intrest is better than none. Before the Economy tanked you could do conservative investing and still beat out inflation by a %age or 2. Slightly though still 'safe' investing you could get a mark up 3-4%. 1100 isn't enough capitol to really start an intrest ball, but it's a good way to get the ball formed.
On September 19 2012 14:28 oneofthem wrote: interesting that romney is turning a rather straightforward phenomenon of globalization (pursuing cheaper labor cost with more mobile capital thus displacing more expensive american workers) which he himself was a participant into a moral drama of the (mormon) biblical variety.
taking bets as to whether he's actually serious because there is actually a chance he believes in all this
Is it immoral to employ people from other countries, who are in much more dire living conditions than in the U.S. ?
Not necessarily, but I think it is immoral to then turn around and essentially insult the American labor force when the biggest reason why they're in the position they are in is because your business and businesses like it outsourced to another part of the world for cheaper labor.
It's like kicking a man when he's down, and you were the one that put him there.
Global competition put the American workforce where it is. If companies don't outsource, they lose outright to foreign competition. If an American worker can't do something better than somebody on the other side of the world working for some third world wage, then that American worker needs to find some other way to make himself useful to society.
I'm in favor of free trade, free migration, globalization... but Vindicare605 does have a point. Opening our economy has created vast amounts of wealth, some of which has stayed here, but it has also caused employment here to decline as there simply isn't enough demand to support the employment levels of yesteryear when we are also buying from cheap foreign sources. (beyond even this, economic geography plays a big factor and there's not too much we can do about that in the near term) Trying to paint half of the American public as freeloading leeches when the root cause of the changes are business trends he participated in isn't right.
Proponents of an open, global economy should be straightforward about the benefits and costs of this vision, and make the case (which I believe is the correct one) that the benefits to humanity far outweigh the costs.
Of course, some government commitment to maintaining the safety net programs during the inevitable decline in American employment seems fair... since, under the old system of a less-globalized economy, many of these people would still have jobs.
Wealth maximization > full employment
The issue is that you need to redistribute it after the fact (or find a different social system than the one we use right now).
i don't think outsourcing always leads to efficiency improvements in terms of worker productivity. often lower efficiency processes are chosen because they are less expensive.
this is not wealth maximization in the economic sense. you are defending profit seeking at the expense of social welfare, a hard argument to make with a straight face.
If my outsourcing makes a million dollars a year and puts 15 people out of a job in the USA, then it should be pursued without a doubt. That million in profits is more than those 15 could make in a year (on average, I'm assuming they aren't 6-figure jobs being outsourced). This is better for us.
Economics is a zero sum game in the end. Always is, always has been, always will be.
Your example makes you much better off and 15 people much worse off. You don't mention how much better off you are making the new workers (if at all), but in any case, your example as presented by yourself is certainly a net loss for anyone who believes that the quality of human life is more important than money.
Yes there is, now instead of private business the government is in charge. One has to compete to offer the best product. One just raises taxes if it falls short of the bottom line one month.
which one is more likly to be optomized?
No, health insurance is still mediated by private business, the government has simply remedied what was a market failure by controlling (some of) the market conditions.
I'm intrested in hearing about this *no sarcasm* Can you eleborate. What is the government controlling. What have they stopped/added.
The vast difference in costs among hospitals for similar procedures was the focus of a new study by researchers at the University of California at San Francisco, whose findings were published Monday in the journal Archives of Internal Medicine. After reviewing charges from more than 19,000 patients, the researchers found that the cost for treatment of uncomplicated appendicitis, the same disease that Hong had, ranged from $1,529 to a whopping $182,955. To put this in perspective, the price of a new Maserati is $130,000.
Health care transparency has been a topic of great debate. In a country where most of price-setting for other products is influenced by consumers, many experts said when it came to health care, U.S. consumers had no power. This, they said, was because they lacked fundamental knowledge necessary in a free-market economy -- the cost of the services for which they were paying.
The reasons for this are many. Few people understand the complexities of health care reimbursement, because how hospitals establish what patients are charged is only abstractly related to actual cost. Hospitals record supplies and services rendered during a hospital stay, and charge according to a fee schedule, or "chargemaster." But these amounts rarely reflect what hospitals actually receive as payment. Medicare and Medicaid payments are set by the government, while third-payer insurance prices are negotiated yearly for significantly reduced rates.
"There is no standard in the United States for reasonable prices or reference pricing," said lead study author Dr. Renee Hsia, associate professor of emergency medicine at the University of California at San Francisco, and a long-time friend of Hong's. "If you go to a hospital, they can charge you whatever they want. Negotiated rates are trade secrets," she said.
So what's your healthcare plan? For everyone to become millionaires and buy immortality?
You're confusing healthcare tourism for healthcare coverage and effectiveness. I can point to the endless amount of anecdotes from Americans that were flat-out denied coverage due to pre-existing conditions, or delayed or avoided healthcare they desperately needed because they couldn't afford it.
Canada's healthcare system is better than America's. Canada's healthcare system is better than America's. Canada's healthcare system is better than America's.
You should take that $300 you've been saving every month and consider moving to Canada. It would save that life of yours that Obama has destroyed.
Truth be told. I have to say ur right about ur little rant. Canada does NOW have a better HC system than America.
But HC pre Obama in America > X100000 Canada HC
I love the thought behind it UHC but it doens't work in the real world. Hard working people like me just got the shaft. I will no longer be able to fund my own HC. If I get an Illness that isn't covered under OBAMACARE, I'm dead. Least I can say I tried. I stood in oposition proudly.
You have a fundamental misunderstanding of Obamacare, your previous healthcare 'system,' how much healthcare cost out of pocket, and Canadian healthcare.
Give me an example of an illness that wouldn't be covered under Obamacare, that you would be able to access if Obamacare didn't exist.
$7000 for a broken arm. That's 6 months of mortgage payment. A nest egg to put towards the downpayment of your first house. Tuition fee to improve your skills, credentials. A very, very nice vacation.
No wonder the US middle class is struggling. Good luck.
Yes there is, now instead of private business the government is in charge. One has to compete to offer the best product. One just raises taxes if it falls short of the bottom line one month.
which one is more likly to be optomized?
No, health insurance is still mediated by private business, the government has simply remedied what was a market failure by controlling (some of) the market conditions.
I'm intrested in hearing about this *no sarcasm* Can you eleborate. What is the government controlling. What have they stopped/added.
The vast difference in costs among hospitals for similar procedures was the focus of a new study by researchers at the University of California at San Francisco, whose findings were published Monday in the journal Archives of Internal Medicine. After reviewing charges from more than 19,000 patients, the researchers found that the cost for treatment of uncomplicated appendicitis, the same disease that Hong had, ranged from $1,529 to a whopping $182,955. To put this in perspective, the price of a new Maserati is $130,000.
Health care transparency has been a topic of great debate. In a country where most of price-setting for other products is influenced by consumers, many experts said when it came to health care, U.S. consumers had no power. This, they said, was because they lacked fundamental knowledge necessary in a free-market economy -- the cost of the services for which they were paying.
The reasons for this are many. Few people understand the complexities of health care reimbursement, because how hospitals establish what patients are charged is only abstractly related to actual cost. Hospitals record supplies and services rendered during a hospital stay, and charge according to a fee schedule, or "chargemaster." But these amounts rarely reflect what hospitals actually receive as payment. Medicare and Medicaid payments are set by the government, while third-payer insurance prices are negotiated yearly for significantly reduced rates.
"There is no standard in the United States for reasonable prices or reference pricing," said lead study author Dr. Renee Hsia, associate professor of emergency medicine at the University of California at San Francisco, and a long-time friend of Hong's. "If you go to a hospital, they can charge you whatever they want. Negotiated rates are trade secrets," she said.
Sounds like Obamacare solved the wrong problem. Shoulda make the 10,000 page HC Law into 1 page that said.
"Hospitals must tell their patients upfront the cost of the procedure" "If a patient is incapable of making said determination, next of kin or a Power of Attn can make the decesion" "If immediate lifethreatening injury, Hospital may not charge more than the state average for the procedure"
On September 20 2012 04:25 SayGen wrote: Obama put the HC bill into effect dispite it lacking popular vote; and now my taxes are now getting rasied 675$+ annually. He said he wouldn't rasie taxes on the middle class (Under 250K a year household income)
This is a terrible example, because it assumes a refusal to sign up for health care coverage, and doesn't acknowledge the bipartisan compromises Obama was forced to make per that issue.
No I'm not assuming a refusal to sign up for Obama care, I am Refusing. It's stupid and shows a lack of competency. I'd be better off sticking to me current plan of setting aside 300$/month into a privite non-taxable account that gains intrest. Oh wait I can't do that anymore, cause I have to take that 300$ and give it to the government in exchange for.....nothing.
Who wants to sign up for some greedy heath insurance plan that has restrictions, 100 pages of paperwork and disclaimers, only covers certain procedures, etc. Why should I get screwed over cause I am take care of myself? Why is it ok to Lie to people?
It's the only example that one needs to know why he shouln't be elected. No one should trust a liar with the most powerful seat of the free world.
If you're core qualification for presidency is honesty, than you DEFINITELY should NOT vote for Mitt Romney.
PS. You plan of saving $300 a month stinks. It will never cover any serious injury or terminal illness, for you or someone you care about.
Who said anything about Romney? I hate him too. I just hate Obama worse cause he is raising my taxes over 675$ and screwing my life over since I won't be able to go to a hospital if I'm sick and be guaranteed help. I don't want to die before its my time and now I can't do anytihng about it. Obama has signed my death. Politicans should not be able those types of decesions.
Sounds like Obama literally killed you.
Kwark, somedays I really think he is trying to be the death of me. I hate feeling that way. I have fought for 'Freedom' for 5+ years now, and it's a shame that I'm less free today than I was 5 years ago. I'm willing to die for my countryman on a battlefield, and this is how they repay me? forcing me to accept bad insurance, unable to determine my own fate.
Out of curiosity (NOT BAIT), have you ever been injured or sick?
Yes, I had to pay 7000$ for braking my left arm. now lets do some math. 23 years old. 300$ put aside since 18. 5 years=60Months 60X300= 18000 18000-7000= 1100 extra. NOT INCLUDING the TAX FREE intrest i've gained while holding onto my HC account.
Let me get this right. After 5 years of saving 300 a month you managed to barely pay for your broken arm. Yes for 675 a year (56,25 a month compared to 300!) you will get your broken arm fully covered even if you break it every single year.
How is this a bad deal! Will your 300 a month save your child if it is born with a defect. Will it save your loved onces if they actualy get something more serious then a mere broken arm. For a mere 675 a year all those problems are gone and yet you see it as an attempt to literally kill you?
To anyone not living in the US this whining is unbelievable depressing. You people are doing everything you can to fuck over your own lives.
On September 20 2012 04:25 SayGen wrote: Obama put the HC bill into effect dispite it lacking popular vote; and now my taxes are now getting rasied 675$+ annually. He said he wouldn't rasie taxes on the middle class (Under 250K a year household income)
This is a terrible example, because it assumes a refusal to sign up for health care coverage, and doesn't acknowledge the bipartisan compromises Obama was forced to make per that issue.
No I'm not assuming a refusal to sign up for Obama care, I am Refusing. It's stupid and shows a lack of competency. I'd be better off sticking to me current plan of setting aside 300$/month into a privite non-taxable account that gains intrest. Oh wait I can't do that anymore, cause I have to take that 300$ and give it to the government in exchange for.....nothing.
Who wants to sign up for some greedy heath insurance plan that has restrictions, 100 pages of paperwork and disclaimers, only covers certain procedures, etc. Why should I get screwed over cause I am take care of myself? Why is it ok to Lie to people?
It's the only example that one needs to know why he shouln't be elected. No one should trust a liar with the most powerful seat of the free world.
If you're core qualification for presidency is honesty, than you DEFINITELY should NOT vote for Mitt Romney.
PS. You plan of saving $300 a month stinks. It will never cover any serious injury or terminal illness, for you or someone you care about.
Who said anything about Romney? I hate him too. I just hate Obama worse cause he is raising my taxes over 675$ and screwing my life over since I won't be able to go to a hospital if I'm sick and be guaranteed help. I don't want to die before its my time and now I can't do anytihng about it. Obama has signed my death. Politicans should not be able those types of decesions.
Sounds like Obama literally killed you.
Kwark, somedays I really think he is trying to be the death of me. I hate feeling that way. I have fought for 'Freedom' for 5+ years now, and it's a shame that I'm less free today than I was 5 years ago. I'm willing to die for my countryman on a battlefield, and this is how they repay me? forcing me to accept bad insurance, unable to determine my own fate.
Out of curiosity (NOT BAIT), have you ever been injured or sick?
Yes, I had to pay 7000$ for braking my left arm. now lets do some math. 23 years old. 300$ put aside since 18. 5 years=60Months 60X300= 18000 18000-7000= 1100 extra. NOT INCLUDING the TAX FREE intrest i've gained while holding onto my HC account.
Let me get this right. After 5 years of saving 300 a month you managed to barely pay for your broken arm. Yes for 675 a year (56,25 a month compared to 300!) you will get your broken arm fully covered even if you break it every single year.
How is this a bad deal! Will your 300 a month save your child if it is born with a defect. Will it save your loved onces if they actualy get something more serious then a mere broken arm. For a mere 675 a year all those problems are gone and yet you see it as an attempt to literally kill you?
To anyone not living in the US this whining is unbelievable depressing. You people are doing everything you can to fuck over your own lives.
There are a great many citizens of the United States, I believe they go by the political label "Democrats", who see the healthcare equation very much as you and other Europeans do. I'd be a little more judicious with the "you people's".
On September 20 2012 04:25 SayGen wrote: Obama put the HC bill into effect dispite it lacking popular vote; and now my taxes are now getting rasied 675$+ annually. He said he wouldn't rasie taxes on the middle class (Under 250K a year household income)
Golly. Sounds like you'd be better off just getting and enjoying the benefits of health insurance. Tee hee.
Seriously, my GF went to a hospital, they did a CT and MRI and it was all free. Good thing too because otherwise it would have cost a crap ton of money and I wouldn't be able to finish school and become productive in society and instead backpedaling over debt for years to come.
Why are doctors and everybody else who treated your girlfriend working for free ? They also didn't even have to purchase that expensive medical equipment ? That's one hell of a unique hospital you visited.
This isn't a car dealership. Doctors don't get paid X amount of money for helping Y ammount of patients. It's a steady income. They get there check every month/2weeks, whatever the case may be. The hospital pays for the equipment. They don't pay out of pocket. I'm assuming the government supplies them with the equipment. I work at a grocery store and make 10c above minimum wage. I'm not payed based on how many groceries the store sells, i'm paid weekly by my advisers. I'd like to see where you heard doctors work for free... They make bank. Obama care in no way hurts the income of doctors. If it does I'd like to see a credible source.
Actually doctor pay can be fee for service i.e. they get paid by x # of patients they see. Which unfortunately leads to doctors trying to perform surgeries on people that don't need them to get $$$. But yes, some doctors are indeed salaried.
On September 20 2012 05:34 SayGen wrote: I love the thought behind it UHC but it doens't work in the real world.
You're right. Canadians aren't real. We're figments of your imagination; a manifestation of your conscience that surfaces when ever you talk about healthcare.
It's like Inception. Spin your totem. Spin it now.
So what's your healthcare plan? For everyone to become millionaires and buy immortality?
You're confusing healthcare tourism for healthcare coverage and effectiveness. I can point to the endless amount of anecdotes from Americans that were flat-out denied coverage due to pre-existing conditions, or delayed or avoided healthcare they desperately needed because they couldn't afford it.
Canada's healthcare system is better than America's. Canada's healthcare system is better than America's. Canada's healthcare system is better than America's.
You should take that $300 you've been saving every month and consider moving to Canada. It would save that life of yours that Obama has destroyed.
Truth be told. I have to say ur right about ur little rant. Canada does NOW have a better HC system than America.
But HC pre Obama in America > X100000 Canada HC
I love the thought behind it UHC but it doens't work in the real world. Hard working people like me just got the shaft. I will no longer be able to fund my own HC. If I get an Illness that isn't covered under OBAMACARE, I'm dead. Least I can say I tried. I stood in oposition proudly.
"The United States spends much more money on health care than Canada, on both a per-capita basis and as a percentage of GDP.[5] In 2006, per-capita spending for health care in Canada was US$3,678; in the U.S., US$6,714. The U.S. spent 15.3% of GDP on health care in that year; Canada spent 10.0%.[5] In 2006, 70% of health care spending in Canada was financed by government, versus 46% in the United States. Total government spending per capita in the U.S. on health care was 23% higher than Canadian government spending, and U.S. government expenditure on health care was just under 83% of total Canadian spending"
"A 2007 review of all studies comparing health outcomes in Canada and the US in a Canadian peer-reviewed medical journal found that "health outcomes may be superior in patients cared for in Canada versus the United States... Life expectancy is longer in Canada, and its infant mortality rate is lower than that of the U.S..."
So what's your healthcare plan? For everyone to become millionaires and buy immortality?
You're confusing healthcare tourism for healthcare coverage and effectiveness. I can point to the endless amount of anecdotes from Americans that were flat-out denied coverage due to pre-existing conditions, or delayed or avoided healthcare they desperately needed because they couldn't afford it.
Canada's healthcare system is better than America's. Canada's healthcare system is better than America's. Canada's healthcare system is better than America's.
You should take that $300 you've been saving every month and consider moving to Canada. It would save that life of yours that Obama has destroyed.
Truth be told. I have to say ur right about ur little rant. Canada does NOW have a better HC system than America.
But HC pre Obama in America > X100000 Canada HC
I love the thought behind it UHC but it doens't work in the real world. Hard working people like me just got the shaft. I will no longer be able to fund my own HC. If I get an Illness that isn't covered under OBAMACARE, I'm dead. Least I can say I tried. I stood in oposition proudly.
Always funny when an American comments on Canadian health care with such authority when in fact they dont have a clue what theyre talking about.
Yes there is, now instead of private business the government is in charge. One has to compete to offer the best product. One just raises taxes if it falls short of the bottom line one month.
which one is more likly to be optomized?
No, health insurance is still mediated by private business, the government has simply remedied what was a market failure by controlling (some of) the market conditions.
I'm intrested in hearing about this *no sarcasm* Can you eleborate. What is the government controlling. What have they stopped/added.
The free market will charge whatever it can get away with to provide (possibly excellent) healthcare to those who can afford it. The free market will deny health insurance to those in need if it projects a loss. In fact, the free market would happily deny medical services to those it believes can't pay (in fact that's illegal, which is an important preexisting marketplace regulation per healthcare).
Mandated health insurance as it stands isn't likely the fully realized vision of American health care, but it's an excellent start. Healthcare (that is society's ability/willingness to care for it's sick/dying/injured), will no longer be guided by shareholders and their pursuit of the almighty dollar. Moral imperative should never be dicated by someone's vision of ecnomic necessity. The market can no longer deny health insurance to those in need. People in need will no longer mortgage their future to get the treatment they require. You must have medical coverage (frankly, this is especially beneficial for those short-sighted enough to believe they will never need it). This system allows the nation to cheaply provide medical services to everyone. Aren't you legally required to buy car insurance? How do you think that works?
In other words, what was before a failure on the part of the free market to speak to the medical needs of Americans has now been remedied by market regulation. The free market can't deny services if it projects a loss.
The free market also happily accepts govt. subsidies and tax writeoffs. Yes, taxes have always helped finance medicine generally. People already pay taxes to finance hospitals etc. But I guess those facilities are only there to help the rich?
Finally, senate democrats accepted 161 Republican amendments to the healthcare reform bill. How do you know you aren't really just complaining about one of those?
So what's your healthcare plan? For everyone to become millionaires and buy immortality?
You're confusing healthcare tourism for healthcare coverage and effectiveness. I can point to the endless amount of anecdotes from Americans that were flat-out denied coverage due to pre-existing conditions, or delayed or avoided healthcare they desperately needed because they couldn't afford it.
Canada's healthcare system is better than America's. Canada's healthcare system is better than America's. Canada's healthcare system is better than America's.
You should take that $300 you've been saving every month and consider moving to Canada. It would save that life of yours that Obama has destroyed.
Truth be told. I have to say ur right about ur little rant. Canada does NOW have a better HC system than America.
But HC pre Obama in America > X100000 Canada HC
I love the thought behind it UHC but it doens't work in the real world. Hard working people like me just got the shaft. I will no longer be able to fund my own HC. If I get an Illness that isn't covered under OBAMACARE, I'm dead. Least I can say I tried. I stood in oposition proudly.
You have a fundamental misunderstanding of Obamacare, your previous healthcare 'system,' how much healthcare cost out of pocket, and Canadian healthcare.
Give me an example of an illness that wouldn't be covered under Obamacare, that you would be able to access if Obamacare didn't exist.
$7000 for a broken arm. That's 6 months of mortgage payment. A nest egg to put towards the downpayment of your first house. Tuition fee to improve your skills, credentials. A very, very nice vacation.
No wonder the US middle class is struggling. Good luck.
Thanks for adding to the conversation in a meaningful way- I'll be happy to address your concerns. I wish I could give you the example you asked for but 10,000 pages of Obamacare written in a legal-speak language the vast majoirty of Americans can not understand prevents me from doing this.
This also greatly concerned me:
So much for government transparency.
I do know, based off of GOP primary presidential debates that took place that there are procedures that arn't covered, including procedures that are determined 'optional' like a bullet stuck in your chest that can remain lodged there for the rest of your life. Last I checked, even if you could take a tetnis shot to prevent the soon-to-be rusted bullet from killing you, shouldn't I have some say if I want a bullet in my chest for the rest of my life? Why not let me tap into the 1100 dollars I got, plus a signature loan and have the procedure done.
I'm aware of how much 7000$ is. I gladly paid it. Remember 675$/month is more expensive than the 7000$ I spent on my broken arm. I ran the math in a previous post.
The middleclass is struggling, cause of MASSIVE debt (Thanks Obama) and increased taxiation (675+/month) extra. Thanks for the well wishes, but I'm pretty sure i'm just screwed. My God do I hate Romney (totally different reasons) but in this case he is the lesser of 2 evils. Least he won't raise my taxes 675+, and give me a little more control back of my life.
On September 20 2012 05:34 SayGen wrote: I love the thought behind it UHC but it doens't work in the real world.
You're right. Canadians aren't real. We're figments of your imagination; a manifestation of your conscience that surfaces when ever you talk about healthcare.
It's like Inception. Spin your totem. Spin it now.
EPT
