EPTPresident Obama Re-Elected - Page 543
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Hey guys! We'll be closing this thread shortly, but we will make an American politics megathread where we can continue the discussions in here. The new thread can be found here: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=383301 | ||
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oneofthem
Cayman Islands24199 Posts
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SayGen
United States1209 Posts
On September 20 2012 04:53 Defacer wrote: If you're core qualification for presidency is honesty, than you DEFINITELY should NOT vote for Mitt Romney. PS. You plan of saving $300 a month stinks. It will never cover any serious injury or terminal illness, for you or someone you care about. Who said anything about Romney? I hate him too. I just hate Obama worse cause he is raising my taxes over 675$ and screwing my life over since I won't be able to go to a hospital if I'm sick and be guaranteed help. I don't want to die before its my time and now I can't do anytihng about it. Obama has signed my death. Politicans should not be able those types of decesions. | ||
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Defacer
Canada5052 Posts
On September 20 2012 04:46 Kaitlin wrote: Why are doctors and everybody else who treated your girlfriend working for free ? They also didn't even have to purchase that expensive medical equipment ? That's one hell of a unique hospital you visited. Healthcare is covered by income taxes in Canada. Health care cost is regulated by the federal government. The quality is excellent, particularly when compared to the cost of paying for it out-of-pocket. While some Canadian's will bitch and moan, they would never trade it for American's non-healthcare system from four years ago. At most, they'll wistfully wish for some private options -- which not that many people would use them anyway. Most specialized or experimental treatments not yet covered in Canada are in the hundreds of thousands of dollars. Anyway, going to the doctor Monday to get lab results from a biospy. This particular biospy is not fully covered unfortunately. The government only covers 50%, while the extended insurance I get from my employer covers only 40%. That's means I have to pay $11! Woe is me ... | ||
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farvacola
United States18866 Posts
On September 20 2012 05:02 oneofthem wrote: he does have a point though. the HC bill is crafted under compromise to the existing american system of insurance. it doesn't drastically change the cost experience of the ordinary guy. Exactly. It doesn't change the short term cost experience of the average person, while eliminating the affront to standard decency that is pre-existing condition refusal of coverage and beginning to chip away at the massive waste brought about by the hidden cost negotiations between hospitals and insurance companies. In a few years, the savings brought about by the almost total elimination of uninsured coverage provision, combined with the equilibirium brought about by standardized premiums, makes Obamacare easily worthwhile. | ||
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Elegance
Canada917 Posts
On September 20 2012 05:06 Defacer wrote: Healthcare is covered by income taxes in Canada. Health care cost is regulated by the federal government. The quality is excellent, particularly when compared to the cost of paying for it out-of-pocket. While some Canadian's will bitch and moan, they would never trade it for American's non-healthcare system from four years ago. At most, they'll wistfully wish for some private options -- which not that many people would use them anyway. Most specialized or experimental treatments not yet covered in Canada are in the hundreds of thousands of dollars. Anyway, going to the doctor Monday to get lab results from a biospy. This particular biospy is not fully covered unfortunately. The government only covers 50%, while the extended insurance I get from my employer covers only 40%. That's means I have to pay $11! Woe is me ... I've heard of non-Canadian citizens who had to use the hospital here and had to pay ridiculous amounts of money. I won't disclose exact amounts but it's well worth the tax $ we are paying (unless you are super super rich, which almost none of us here are). The problem USA/Obama faces is that he can't just magically do free healthcare because theres a huge industry in health insurance. Destroying them will cause a shit storm at first but in the long-run, there's no middleman | ||
KwarK
United States44195 Posts
On September 20 2012 05:03 SayGen wrote: Who said anything about Romney? I hate him too. I just hate Obama worse cause he is raising my taxes over 675$ and screwing my life over since I won't be able to go to a hospital if I'm sick and be guaranteed help. I don't want to die before its my time and now I can't do anytihng about it. Obama has signed my death. Politicans should not be able those types of decesions. Sounds like Obama literally killed you. | ||
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Quintum_
United States669 Posts
On September 20 2012 04:52 SayGen wrote: Get a loan. Work hard, pay it off. Live a healthy lifestyle. Don't drink to excess- don't smoke, eat right, excercise. I do, so can you. I am no better than you. When people are coming out of the hospital with 10s or 100s of thousands dollers in bills there is something wrong. It not just about getting a loan. I am well enough off but i would of had to sell everything i own just to cover the few times i need to go to the hospital. You can go into the doctor with a cold and come out 15 thousand dollers in bills if you dont have insurance, it so bad. Unless you are literally on death doors step you are better off not going to the doctors as the only way you are going to pay a doctors bill off without insurance is if you make 100k a year. | ||
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SayGen
United States1209 Posts
On September 20 2012 04:56 EchOne wrote: You can't take care of yourself. You can pay others to take care of you. No man alone has all the wherewithal in the world. Your 100% right. I agree completly. I should be able to pay others to tkae care of me. Now i'm paying Obama 675$+ to deny me the full list of medical procedures I can get. Health Insurance DOES NOT COVER EVERYTHING. YOU CAN GET SICK AND DIE UNDER OBAMACARE. If you have your own money put aside, that plus a signature loan can get you any procedure you ever need. What's better between those 2? Point, set, match? Yes, thank you for your sacrifice. Is it selfish too want the country to have decent access to healthcare? I got access to healthcare under my Mom's plan since I was a student when it was first passed and it allowed me to have it, can't imagine what kind of debt I'd be in if something had happened before that. Just like how I'm happy that if something happens to me eventually, I can have social security there for my family, or If I grow old, medicare will help me with the stupid expensive medicine. I don't see the difference at all. If this makes me selfish to want everyone to have protection and healthcare and security, call me freaking selfish :D. Saygen, I don't drink, smoke, I eat vegan, I get decent exercise. Yet something can still happen too me. Something can still happen too you. My grandfather was the healthiest person in my life, me and him climbed mountains together, he ate pretty damn well, only had a glass of wine here and there, and yet dies from a heart attack at 60. Don't tell me that random things can't happen, we don't have full control over our fates. Yes it is selfish if it is at the expense of others. You're stealing from me and other people who want to be able to provide for themselves and their familes. You're saying screw you, I don't care if you die, so long as I can get a free MRI. Yes you are selfish. Also it is selfish people like you who make people like me who are young pay into social secuirty even though i'll never get social securty. It's people like you who take more than you ever give back. Screwing over anyone and everyone. It's sad. Is it so wrong I want a fair and just society. It is so wrong that I want to be left alone and not over taxed? PS: I never said we had full control, I'm just pushing to get as much control over my own life as I can and trying to fend off selfish indivisuals who try to kill me. On September 20 2012 05:00 NPF wrote: You're being rather annoying. Canada hospitals are payed by the single payer system which ultimately ressembles a insurance company that covers all conditions and costs are reduce due to the large risk pool. Also it is a not for profit system, with competition between provinces for doctors and nurses etc. It also promotes check-up which prevent symptoms for being too bad and thus too expensive. SayGen say you get stabbed and someone steals your liver in the process, have enough cash for that? It's silly to say you are fully responsible, when your continually in dynamic interaction with people. You're not incontrol, you might be well off, but you don't have total control of your life, that's why you put away those 300$ in the first place. Healthcare is covered by income taxes in Canada. Health care cost is regulated by the federal government. The quality is excellent, particularly when compared to the cost of paying for it out-of-pocket. While some Canadian's will bitch and moan, they would never trade it for American's non-healthcare system from four years ago. At most, they'll wistfully wish for some private options -- which not that many people would use them anyway. Most specialized or experimental treatments not yet covered in Canada are in the hundreds of thousands of dollars. Anyway, going to the doctor Monday to get lab results from a biospy. This particular biospy is not fully covered unfortunately. The government only covers 50%, while the extended insurance I get from my employer covers only 40%. That's means I have to pay $11! Woe is me ... [/QUOTE] Please don't ever mention Canadian HC again. http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/article/759760---danny-millions-williams-heads-south-for-heart-surgery | ||
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NeMeSiS3
Canada2972 Posts
On September 20 2012 05:06 Defacer wrote: Healthcare is covered by income taxes in Canada. Health care cost is regulated by the federal government. The quality is excellent, particularly when compared to the cost of paying for it out-of-pocket. While some Canadian's will bitch and moan, they would never trade it for American's non-healthcare system from four years ago. At most, they'll wistfully wish for some private options -- which not that many people would use them anyway. Most specialized or experimental treatments not yet covered in Canada are in the hundreds of thousands of dollars. Anyway, going to the doctor Monday to get lab results from a biospy. This particular biospy is not fully covered unfortunately. The government only covers 50%, while the extended insurance I get from my employer covers only 40%. That's means I have to pay $11! Woe is me ... OFFTOPIC + Show Spoiler + Most of Americans who are uneducated with regards to Canadian Healthcare generally go "wow wow wowowowow it takes about 4 thousand hours to see a doctor who is over worked and underpaid on machine equipment that is ages old in facilities from the dark ages, or so that's what our News media tells us!"  sosososos sillyhttp://www.reuters.com/article/2010/06/23/us-usa-healthcare-last-idUSTRE65M0SU20100623 Sometimes being a Canadian blows, but when it comes to healthcare with respect to the States, I'm walkin on sunshine woooaahhh | ||
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Zealotdriver
United States1557 Posts
On September 20 2012 05:14 SayGen wrote: YOU CAN GET SICK AND DIE UNDER OBAMACARE. Really? You can get sick and die? You don't say. | ||
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SayGen
United States1209 Posts
Kwark, somedays I really think he is trying to be the death of me. I hate feeling that way. I have fought for 'Freedom' for 5+ years now, and it's a shame that I'm less free today than I was 5 years ago. I'm willing to die for my countryman on a battlefield, and this is how they repay me? forcing me to accept bad insurance, unable to determine my own fate. | ||
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KwarK
United States44195 Posts
On September 20 2012 05:17 SayGen wrote: Kwark, somedays I really think he is trying to be the death of me. I hate feeling that way. I have fought for 'Freedom' for 5+ years now, and it's a shame that I'm less free today than I was 5 years ago. I'm willing to die for my countryman on a battlefield, and this is how they repay me? forcing me to accept bad insurance, unable to determine my own fate. Did you ever do anything to him that might have given him a reason to wish you harm? It could have been a long time ago so try hard to remember. His entire presidency could just be a method for him to get back at you. | ||
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Elegance
Canada917 Posts
On September 20 2012 05:15 NeMeSiS3 wrote: Most of Americans who are uneducated with regards to Canadian Healthcare generally go "wow wow wowowowow it takes about 4 thousand hours to see a doctor who is over worked and underpaid on machine equipment that is ages old in facilities from the dark ages, or so that's what our News media tells us!" sosososos sillyhttp://www.reuters.com/article/2010/06/23/us-usa-healthcare-last-idUSTRE65M0SU20100623 Sometimes being a Canadian blows, but when it comes to healthcare with respect to the States, I'm walkin on sunshine woooaahhh Exactly. If i woman has trouble giving birth and needs a c-section, no flippin problems here cuz you aint walking out with 100k bill | ||
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NeMeSiS3
Canada2972 Posts
On September 20 2012 05:17 SayGen wrote: Kwark, somedays I really think he is trying to be the death of me. I hate feeling that way. I have fought for 'Freedom' for 5+ years now, and it's a shame that I'm less free today than I was 5 years ago. I'm willing to die for my countryman on a battlefield, and this is how they repay me? forcing me to accept bad insurance, unable to determine my own fate. There is a reason Kwark was being facetious, it is because you have no idea what you're talking about... | ||
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Minus`
United States174 Posts
On September 20 2012 05:17 SayGen wrote: Kwark, somedays I really think he is trying to be the death of me. I hate feeling that way. I have fought for 'Freedom' for 5+ years now, and it's a shame that I'm less free today than I was 5 years ago. I'm willing to die for my countryman on a battlefield, and this is how they repay me? forcing me to accept bad insurance, unable to determine my own fate. Out of curiosity (NOT BAIT), have you ever been injured or sick? | ||
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SayGen
United States1209 Posts
there's no middleman Yes there is, now instead of private business the government is in charge. One has to compete to offer the best product. One just raises taxes if it falls short of the bottom line one month. which one is more likly to be optomized? | ||
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Kaitlin
United States2958 Posts
On September 20 2012 05:14 Quintum_ wrote: When people are coming out of the hospital with 10s or 100s of thousands dollers in bills there is something wrong. $16 trillion national debt. Population about 310 million or so. Forget the hospital, our children come out of the WOMB over $50,000 in debt. | ||
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Defacer
Canada5052 Posts
On September 20 2012 05:14 SayGen wrote: Please don't ever mention Canadian HC again. http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/article/759760---danny-millions-williams-heads-south-for-heart-surgery So what's your healthcare plan? For everyone to become millionaires and buy immortality? You're confusing healthcare tourism for healthcare coverage and effectiveness. I can point to the endless amount of anecdotes from Americans that were flat-out denied coverage due to pre-existing conditions, or delayed or avoided healthcare they desperately needed because they couldn't afford it. Canada's healthcare system is better than America's. Canada's healthcare system is better than America's. Canada's healthcare system is better than America's. You should take that $300 you've been saving every month and consider moving to Canada. It would save that life of yours that Obama has destroyed. | ||
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BallinWitStalin
1177 Posts
On September 20 2012 05:14 SayGen wrote: Please don't ever mention Canadian HC again. http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/article/759760---danny-millions-williams-heads-south-for-heart-surgery No. Fuck you man. Fuck you hard. Don't ever fucking take Canadian healthcare as an example of why single payer sucks. We get great healthcare coverage, we have awesome outcomes, everyone's covered, and best of all the cost is ridiculously cheap compared to yours (almost half, I think?). We struggle on "elective" surgeries but for things that are deemed "necessary" our system performs just as well as the U.S. and for a fraction of the cost, and covers all citizens. My family has dealt a lot with our healthcare system, and we've all been super happy with our outcomes (Cancers, appendixes, troubled pregnancies, bad infections, heart surgeries, you name it). We get great healthcare. Danny Williams just went to the U.S. so he could pay for one of the best surgeons in the world (dude's rich as fuck, why wouldnt he?). He could've got the surgery within a medically acceptable timeframe in Canada, no problem. Just ask Danny Williams himself if he thinks single-payer is the way to go. There's not a god damn chance he would agree to get rid of it (I love Danny Williams, I think that guy is great). So yeah, go fuck yourself dude. I hate it when retards with no experience of our system hate on it. Just ask Canadians themselves. We love it. Edit: Suck on these -Danny Williams just decided to spend his money on the best guy in North America for that particular procedure (again, he's rich as fuck, why not?): http://www.globalpost.com/dispatch/canada/100302/health-care-danny-williams?page=0,1 -Some of the best surgeons are still located in Toronto and Montreal (and available publicly to all Canadians on a needs basis): http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/its-my-health-its-my-choice-danny-williams-says/article4311853/ -Danny Williams saying he still has total confidence in our healthcare: http://www.torontosun.com/news/canada/2010/02/22/12987776-qmi.html | ||
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KwarK
United States44195 Posts
On September 20 2012 05:21 SayGen wrote: Yes there is, now instead of private business the government is in charge. One has to compete to offer the best product. One just raises taxes if it falls short of the bottom line one month. which one is more likly to be optomized? The one trying to do as much healing as possible with the funding it is allocated rather than just trying to make as much money as possible. The public option actually seeks to improve the health of the public and reduce the overall demand upon the service whereas a business wants to increase demand, sell whatever services it can, regardless of medical necessity, deal only with those who make it a profit and then hand a portion of the profits over to shareholders. Healthcare isn't like other markets, shrinking the demand is a victory, all medical expenses are a loss to the economy as a whole. | ||
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