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On September 06 2012 13:00 Sadist wrote:Show nested quote +On September 06 2012 12:58 JinDesu wrote:On September 06 2012 12:56 Defacer wrote:On September 06 2012 12:52 JinDesu wrote:On September 06 2012 12:48 dvorakftw wrote:On September 06 2012 12:35 JinDesu wrote:
I have insurance, and it still wasn't terribly fun waiting about 2 hours for someone to relocate my shoulder. Hours is better than months. I was sitting in an emergency room. For two hours. On a bed. With my shoulder out of it's socket. Sure, I don't have a surgery to schedule and find out if it'll take me months or not - oh wait, there are plenty of stories like that in the american system. Although you know what? I'm glad I had insurance. Because that shoulder dislocation cost 11 grand. All for an accidental fall. After insurance, it cost me 1 grand. Without insurance, I'd have been bankrupt by that (I just started working at the time). So I personally have no issues with universal health insurance. Wait times in Canada depend on the type of treatment you're getting and how serious it is. It's pretty easy to fix a dislocated shoulder. If you went to Emergency in Canada, you'd probably wait about the same amount of time. And you would pay zero dollars, with or without insurance. Well the humorous part was that after 2 hours, the pain was so unbearable that they needed to sedate me. And then the relocation process took about 10 minutes (which I don't even remember, after being sedated). Relocation cost - $1000 Ambulance cost - $100 Sedation cost - ~$8900 I was so terrified after seeing the bill, because I wasn't completely clear on what my insurance would cover (again, I just started working, and I was fresh out of college). Imagine my happiness in finding out they covered everything minus the $1000 deductible. You are lucky you only had a $100 ambulance cost. How far was the trip? I have seen/heard of up to $900 for my grandfather.
Standard for an ambulance cost (at least in my neck of the woods) is about $950, according to my EMT instructor.
Megyn Kelly is complaining about Clinton going into details of Medicare, and Medicaid...
It's Megyn Kelly. I'm sorry, but that woman is a fucking joke of a news reporter.
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On September 06 2012 13:04 Stratos_speAr wrote:Show nested quote +On September 06 2012 13:00 Sadist wrote:On September 06 2012 12:58 JinDesu wrote:On September 06 2012 12:56 Defacer wrote:On September 06 2012 12:52 JinDesu wrote:On September 06 2012 12:48 dvorakftw wrote:On September 06 2012 12:35 JinDesu wrote:
I have insurance, and it still wasn't terribly fun waiting about 2 hours for someone to relocate my shoulder. Hours is better than months. I was sitting in an emergency room. For two hours. On a bed. With my shoulder out of it's socket. Sure, I don't have a surgery to schedule and find out if it'll take me months or not - oh wait, there are plenty of stories like that in the american system. Although you know what? I'm glad I had insurance. Because that shoulder dislocation cost 11 grand. All for an accidental fall. After insurance, it cost me 1 grand. Without insurance, I'd have been bankrupt by that (I just started working at the time). So I personally have no issues with universal health insurance. Wait times in Canada depend on the type of treatment you're getting and how serious it is. It's pretty easy to fix a dislocated shoulder. If you went to Emergency in Canada, you'd probably wait about the same amount of time. And you would pay zero dollars, with or without insurance. Well the humorous part was that after 2 hours, the pain was so unbearable that they needed to sedate me. And then the relocation process took about 10 minutes (which I don't even remember, after being sedated). Relocation cost - $1000 Ambulance cost - $100 Sedation cost - ~$8900 I was so terrified after seeing the bill, because I wasn't completely clear on what my insurance would cover (again, I just started working, and I was fresh out of college). Imagine my happiness in finding out they covered everything minus the $1000 deductible. You are lucky you only had a $100 ambulance cost. How far was the trip? I have seen/heard of up to $900 for my grandfather. Standard for an EMT cost (at least in my neck of the woods) is about $950, according to my EMT instructor.
Man, where do you guys live? I was in a small New Jersey town at the time.
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On September 06 2012 13:04 JinDesu wrote:Show nested quote +On September 06 2012 13:00 Sadist wrote:On September 06 2012 12:58 JinDesu wrote:On September 06 2012 12:56 Defacer wrote:On September 06 2012 12:52 JinDesu wrote:On September 06 2012 12:48 dvorakftw wrote:On September 06 2012 12:35 JinDesu wrote:
I have insurance, and it still wasn't terribly fun waiting about 2 hours for someone to relocate my shoulder. Hours is better than months. I was sitting in an emergency room. For two hours. On a bed. With my shoulder out of it's socket. Sure, I don't have a surgery to schedule and find out if it'll take me months or not - oh wait, there are plenty of stories like that in the american system. Although you know what? I'm glad I had insurance. Because that shoulder dislocation cost 11 grand. All for an accidental fall. After insurance, it cost me 1 grand. Without insurance, I'd have been bankrupt by that (I just started working at the time). So I personally have no issues with universal health insurance. Wait times in Canada depend on the type of treatment you're getting and how serious it is. It's pretty easy to fix a dislocated shoulder. If you went to Emergency in Canada, you'd probably wait about the same amount of time. And you would pay zero dollars, with or without insurance. Well the humorous part was that after 2 hours, the pain was so unbearable that they needed to sedate me. And then the relocation process took about 10 minutes (which I don't even remember, after being sedated). Relocation cost - $1000 Ambulance cost - $100 Sedation cost - ~$8900 I was so terrified after seeing the bill, because I wasn't completely clear on what my insurance would cover (again, I just started working, and I was fresh out of college). Imagine my happiness in finding out they covered everything minus the $1000 deductible. You are lucky you only had a $100 ambulance cost. How far was the trip? I have seen/heard of up to $900 for my grandfather. I didn't know - it was a hellish ride too! Even with my arm strapped tight against my body, they were rolling on some rough roads and I couldn't wait for it to be over. I just remember it was maybe a 30 minute ride, although that's a bad judge since I was in pain. I know now that my insurance actually covers the ambulance fee, so that's lucky for me. Show nested quote +On September 06 2012 13:00 Dagan159 wrote:On September 06 2012 12:58 JinDesu wrote:
Sedation cost - ~$8900
deductible. In retrospect, couldnt you have just toughed it out for 9g's? =P Yeah, if I knew it was 9g's, I would have probably toughed it out... but my pain was so bad that the morphine they injected did nothing. They resorted to one final sedative/pain killer that literally removed all feeling in my body, as well as put me in lalaland.
$8900. Jesus fucking christ. I would have punched you out cold for $89.
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United States13896 Posts
Clinton's speech was best early on. The first 15 minutes or so where he stressed coming back to a place of mutual respect and cooperation were brilliant. Right down to the tie he wore, he sold that message better than anyone has in the last 2 years of deadlock and partisan politics. Slick Willy has that ability to speak and make you feel like we've all been children fighting for the last few years forgetting the big picture and stress a theme of healing and unity. That was where the speech was incredibly strong in my eyes, as far as reaching out to those sitting in the middle who are disillusioned, tired of what has happened and desiring of a political atmosphere that doesn't feel so incredibly and openly hostile.
His defenses of Obama were effective, but way to expansive imo, repeatedly turning to the rhetorical device of putting his words in the mouths of the Republican party. Many times paraphrasing well-known Republican party positions, but just as many times making some statements that were a stretch to say the least. He walked that tightrope like only he can. He could have cut back and had a more successful speech, but it was still extremely strong. More effective than anything I've seen thus far after watching the RNC and DNC at reaching towards the center and attracting the independent/moderate vote.
"They put putting President Obama out of a job ahead of putting Americans in jobs" is going to be the new go-to attack for Dems from now until November. Gonna be interesting to see how Obama carries out the rest of their campaign's playbook tomorrow.
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On September 06 2012 13:06 Defacer wrote:Show nested quote +On September 06 2012 13:04 JinDesu wrote:On September 06 2012 13:00 Sadist wrote:On September 06 2012 12:58 JinDesu wrote:On September 06 2012 12:56 Defacer wrote:On September 06 2012 12:52 JinDesu wrote:On September 06 2012 12:48 dvorakftw wrote:On September 06 2012 12:35 JinDesu wrote:
I have insurance, and it still wasn't terribly fun waiting about 2 hours for someone to relocate my shoulder. Hours is better than months. I was sitting in an emergency room. For two hours. On a bed. With my shoulder out of it's socket. Sure, I don't have a surgery to schedule and find out if it'll take me months or not - oh wait, there are plenty of stories like that in the american system. Although you know what? I'm glad I had insurance. Because that shoulder dislocation cost 11 grand. All for an accidental fall. After insurance, it cost me 1 grand. Without insurance, I'd have been bankrupt by that (I just started working at the time). So I personally have no issues with universal health insurance. Wait times in Canada depend on the type of treatment you're getting and how serious it is. It's pretty easy to fix a dislocated shoulder. If you went to Emergency in Canada, you'd probably wait about the same amount of time. And you would pay zero dollars, with or without insurance. Well the humorous part was that after 2 hours, the pain was so unbearable that they needed to sedate me. And then the relocation process took about 10 minutes (which I don't even remember, after being sedated). Relocation cost - $1000 Ambulance cost - $100 Sedation cost - ~$8900 I was so terrified after seeing the bill, because I wasn't completely clear on what my insurance would cover (again, I just started working, and I was fresh out of college). Imagine my happiness in finding out they covered everything minus the $1000 deductible. You are lucky you only had a $100 ambulance cost. How far was the trip? I have seen/heard of up to $900 for my grandfather. I didn't know - it was a hellish ride too! Even with my arm strapped tight against my body, they were rolling on some rough roads and I couldn't wait for it to be over. I just remember it was maybe a 30 minute ride, although that's a bad judge since I was in pain. I know now that my insurance actually covers the ambulance fee, so that's lucky for me. On September 06 2012 13:00 Dagan159 wrote:On September 06 2012 12:58 JinDesu wrote:
Sedation cost - ~$8900
deductible. In retrospect, couldnt you have just toughed it out for 9g's? =P Yeah, if I knew it was 9g's, I would have probably toughed it out... but my pain was so bad that the morphine they injected did nothing. They resorted to one final sedative/pain killer that literally removed all feeling in my body, as well as put me in lalaland. $8900. Jesus fucking christ. I would have punched you out cold for $89.
Yeah, imagine my surprise when I saw the bill... that's why I do support the ACA.
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On September 06 2012 13:07 p4NDemik wrote:
Clinton's speech was best early on. The first 15 minutes or so where he stressed coming back to a place of mutual respect and cooperation were brilliant. Right down to the tie he wore, he sold that message better than anyone has in the last 2 years of deadlock and partisan politics. Slick Willy has that ability to speak and make you feel like we've all been children fighting for the last few years forgetting the big picture and stress a theme of healing and unity. That was where the speech was incredibly strong in my eyes, as far as reaching out to those sitting in the middle who are disillusioned, tired of what has happened and desiring of a political atmosphere that doesn't feel so incredibly and openly hostile.
His defenses of Obama were effective, but way to expansive imo, repeatedly turning to the rhetorical device of putting his words in the mouths of the Republican party. Many times paraphrasing well-known Republican party positions, but just as many times making some statements that were a stretch to say the least. He walked that tightrope like only he can. He could have cut back and had a more successful speech, but it was still extremely strong. More effective than anything I've seen thus far after watching the RNC and DNC at reaching towards the center and attracting the independent/moderate vote.
"They put putting President Obama out of a job ahead of putting Americans in jobs" is going to be the new go-to attack for Dems from now until November. Gonna be interesting to see how Obama carries out the rest of their campaign's playbook tomorrow.
I figured it would be something about republicans wanting to "double down on trickle down"
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On September 06 2012 13:06 Defacer wrote:
$8900. Jesus fucking christ. I would have punched you out cold for $89.
lol... that sounds like my healthcare plan actually. Usually involves a bottle of booze though. :D
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On September 06 2012 13:07 p4NDemik wrote:
Clinton's speech was best early on. The first 15 minutes or so where he stressed coming back to a place of mutual respect and cooperation were brilliant. Right down to the tie he wore, he sold that message better than anyone has in the last 2 years of deadlock and partisan politics. Slick Willy has that ability to speak and make you feel like we've all been children fighting for the last few years forgetting the big picture and stress a theme of healing and unity. That was where the speech was incredibly strong in my eyes, as far as reaching out to those sitting in the middle who are disillusioned, tired of what has happened and desiring of a political atmosphere that doesn't feel so incredibly and openly hostile.
His defenses of Obama were effective, but way to expansive imo, repeatedly turning to the rhetorical device of putting his words in the mouths of the Republican party. Many times paraphrasing well-known Republican party positions, but just as many times making some statements that were a stretch to say the least. He walked that tightrope like only he can. He could have cut back and had a more successful speech, but it was still extremely strong. More effective than anything I've seen thus far after watching the RNC and DNC at reaching towards the center and attracting the independent/moderate vote.
"They put putting President Obama out of a job ahead of putting Americans in jobs" is going to be the new go-to attack for Dems from now until November. Gonna be interesting to see how Obama carries out the rest of their campaign's playbook tomorrow.
The speech was long as hell, and there were many moments where Bill could have ended on a high note. But I think Bill had a very deliberate plan to appeal to independents watching at home, and also preemptively counter the upcoming onslaught of deceptive political ads that the Romney campaign is about to unleash with as much factual information as possible.
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United States13896 Posts
On September 06 2012 13:09 Sadist wrote:Show nested quote +On September 06 2012 13:07 p4NDemik wrote:
Clinton's speech was best early on. The first 15 minutes or so where he stressed coming back to a place of mutual respect and cooperation were brilliant. Right down to the tie he wore, he sold that message better than anyone has in the last 2 years of deadlock and partisan politics. Slick Willy has that ability to speak and make you feel like we've all been children fighting for the last few years forgetting the big picture and stress a theme of healing and unity. That was where the speech was incredibly strong in my eyes, as far as reaching out to those sitting in the middle who are disillusioned, tired of what has happened and desiring of a political atmosphere that doesn't feel so incredibly and openly hostile.
His defenses of Obama were effective, but way to expansive imo, repeatedly turning to the rhetorical device of putting his words in the mouths of the Republican party. Many times paraphrasing well-known Republican party positions, but just as many times making some statements that were a stretch to say the least. He walked that tightrope like only he can. He could have cut back and had a more successful speech, but it was still extremely strong. More effective than anything I've seen thus far after watching the RNC and DNC at reaching towards the center and attracting the independent/moderate vote.
"They put putting President Obama out of a job ahead of putting Americans in jobs" is going to be the new go-to attack for Dems from now until November. Gonna be interesting to see how Obama carries out the rest of their campaign's playbook tomorrow. I figured it would be something about republicans wanting to "double down on trickle down"
Problem with that is it doesn't have the word "jobs" in it.
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Villar is such an embarrassment. Contender for worst mayor in America and now he screws up his role at DNC? What were the Democrats thinking when they put him in charge?
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one of Obama's campaign guys just absolutely destroyed that Greta Van Susteren on Fox news. She was trying to steer the conversation and stump him so bad but failed miserably. He just kept reiterating the automotive jobs in Ohio and the fact that tons of republican Governors in the midwest were for the automotive bailouts.
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On September 06 2012 13:15 RJGooner wrote:
Villar is such an embarrassment. Contender for worst mayor in America and now he screws up his role at DNC? What were the Democrats thinking when they put him in charge?
Putting in a guy who failed the bar four times (and never passed it) is a good idea?
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2nd Worst City in CA8938 Posts
Another part of Clinton's speech that was so well done was how he addressed the disappointment of many Democratic/independent voters and emphasized how it takes time to rebuild an economy and that no one, not even himself, could have gotten us out of the shit hole in four years. To be honest I think he took that disappointment and converted it into patience, and, dare I say it, hope.
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On September 06 2012 12:58 JinDesu wrote:Show nested quote +On September 06 2012 12:56 Defacer wrote:On September 06 2012 12:52 JinDesu wrote:On September 06 2012 12:48 dvorakftw wrote:On September 06 2012 12:35 JinDesu wrote:
I have insurance, and it still wasn't terribly fun waiting about 2 hours for someone to relocate my shoulder. Hours is better than months. I was sitting in an emergency room. For two hours. On a bed. With my shoulder out of it's socket. Sure, I don't have a surgery to schedule and find out if it'll take me months or not - oh wait, there are plenty of stories like that in the american system. Although you know what? I'm glad I had insurance. Because that shoulder dislocation cost 11 grand. All for an accidental fall. After insurance, it cost me 1 grand. Without insurance, I'd have been bankrupt by that (I just started working at the time). So I personally have no issues with universal health insurance. Wait times in Canada depend on the type of treatment you're getting and how serious it is. It's pretty easy to fix a dislocated shoulder. If you went to Emergency in Canada, you'd probably wait about the same amount of time. And you would pay zero dollars, with or without insurance. Well the humorous part was that after 2 hours, the pain was so unbearable that they needed to sedate me. And then the relocation process took about 10 minutes (which I don't even remember, after being sedated). Relocation cost - $1000 Ambulance cost - $100 Sedation cost - ~$8900 I was so terrified after seeing the bill, because I wasn't completely clear on what my insurance would cover (again, I just started working, and I was fresh out of college). Imagine my happiness in finding out they covered everything minus the $1000 deductible.
what the fuck? 10grand to fix a dislocated shoulder. u gotta be trollin
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On September 06 2012 13:20 a176 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 06 2012 12:58 JinDesu wrote:On September 06 2012 12:56 Defacer wrote:On September 06 2012 12:52 JinDesu wrote:On September 06 2012 12:48 dvorakftw wrote:On September 06 2012 12:35 JinDesu wrote:
I have insurance, and it still wasn't terribly fun waiting about 2 hours for someone to relocate my shoulder. Hours is better than months. I was sitting in an emergency room. For two hours. On a bed. With my shoulder out of it's socket. Sure, I don't have a surgery to schedule and find out if it'll take me months or not - oh wait, there are plenty of stories like that in the american system. Although you know what? I'm glad I had insurance. Because that shoulder dislocation cost 11 grand. All for an accidental fall. After insurance, it cost me 1 grand. Without insurance, I'd have been bankrupt by that (I just started working at the time). So I personally have no issues with universal health insurance. Wait times in Canada depend on the type of treatment you're getting and how serious it is. It's pretty easy to fix a dislocated shoulder. If you went to Emergency in Canada, you'd probably wait about the same amount of time. And you would pay zero dollars, with or without insurance. Well the humorous part was that after 2 hours, the pain was so unbearable that they needed to sedate me. And then the relocation process took about 10 minutes (which I don't even remember, after being sedated). Relocation cost - $1000 Ambulance cost - $100 Sedation cost - ~$8900 I was so terrified after seeing the bill, because I wasn't completely clear on what my insurance would cover (again, I just started working, and I was fresh out of college). Imagine my happiness in finding out they covered everything minus the $1000 deductible. what the fuck? 10grand to fix a dislocated shoulder. u gotta be trollin
Nope - completely serious.
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On September 06 2012 13:20 a176 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 06 2012 12:58 JinDesu wrote:On September 06 2012 12:56 Defacer wrote:On September 06 2012 12:52 JinDesu wrote:On September 06 2012 12:48 dvorakftw wrote:On September 06 2012 12:35 JinDesu wrote:
I have insurance, and it still wasn't terribly fun waiting about 2 hours for someone to relocate my shoulder. Hours is better than months. I was sitting in an emergency room. For two hours. On a bed. With my shoulder out of it's socket. Sure, I don't have a surgery to schedule and find out if it'll take me months or not - oh wait, there are plenty of stories like that in the american system. Although you know what? I'm glad I had insurance. Because that shoulder dislocation cost 11 grand. All for an accidental fall. After insurance, it cost me 1 grand. Without insurance, I'd have been bankrupt by that (I just started working at the time). So I personally have no issues with universal health insurance. Wait times in Canada depend on the type of treatment you're getting and how serious it is. It's pretty easy to fix a dislocated shoulder. If you went to Emergency in Canada, you'd probably wait about the same amount of time. And you would pay zero dollars, with or without insurance. Well the humorous part was that after 2 hours, the pain was so unbearable that they needed to sedate me. And then the relocation process took about 10 minutes (which I don't even remember, after being sedated). Relocation cost - $1000 Ambulance cost - $100 Sedation cost - ~$8900 I was so terrified after seeing the bill, because I wasn't completely clear on what my insurance would cover (again, I just started working, and I was fresh out of college). Imagine my happiness in finding out they covered everything minus the $1000 deductible. what the fuck? 10grand to fix a dislocated shoulder. u gotta be trollin
That's what I've been saying. Think about what middle-class in Canada would be like if we had those kinds of bills.
My dad died of cancer when he was 14. If my family had our insurance capped or even worse, we had to pay out of pocket, not only would my dad still be dead, but my family would have dropped out of the middle class and gone bankrupt.
But because we socialized healthcare in Canada, me and my brother went to university, got decent jobs, got married, have rmortgages, pay taxes and live our own reasonable, middle class lives. I truly believe socialized healthcare has long-term, immeasurable benefits to the economy.
No matter how bitchy a receptionist might be to you at a walk-in clinic, thank your lucky stars you live in Canada.
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On September 06 2012 13:22 JinDesu wrote:Show nested quote +On September 06 2012 13:20 a176 wrote:On September 06 2012 12:58 JinDesu wrote:On September 06 2012 12:56 Defacer wrote:On September 06 2012 12:52 JinDesu wrote:On September 06 2012 12:48 dvorakftw wrote:On September 06 2012 12:35 JinDesu wrote:
I have insurance, and it still wasn't terribly fun waiting about 2 hours for someone to relocate my shoulder. Hours is better than months. I was sitting in an emergency room. For two hours. On a bed. With my shoulder out of it's socket. Sure, I don't have a surgery to schedule and find out if it'll take me months or not - oh wait, there are plenty of stories like that in the american system. Although you know what? I'm glad I had insurance. Because that shoulder dislocation cost 11 grand. All for an accidental fall. After insurance, it cost me 1 grand. Without insurance, I'd have been bankrupt by that (I just started working at the time). So I personally have no issues with universal health insurance. Wait times in Canada depend on the type of treatment you're getting and how serious it is. It's pretty easy to fix a dislocated shoulder. If you went to Emergency in Canada, you'd probably wait about the same amount of time. And you would pay zero dollars, with or without insurance. Well the humorous part was that after 2 hours, the pain was so unbearable that they needed to sedate me. And then the relocation process took about 10 minutes (which I don't even remember, after being sedated). Relocation cost - $1000 Ambulance cost - $100 Sedation cost - ~$8900 I was so terrified after seeing the bill, because I wasn't completely clear on what my insurance would cover (again, I just started working, and I was fresh out of college). Imagine my happiness in finding out they covered everything minus the $1000 deductible. what the fuck? 10grand to fix a dislocated shoulder. u gotta be trollin Nope - completely serious.
And that was my point with the other guy. The hospital would have charged YOU 10k (or $8k if they give you the 20% discount the other poster had mentioned) since you cant negotiate with the hospital/ambulance/phsyician. But, if you actually look at what the insurance company pays, they end up paying a fraction of that 10k because they negotiate the price down. That is REALLY fucked up but its the system we live in here in the US. Its a scam and it is EXACTLY like Pawn Stars except with peoples lives.
Disgusting.
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On September 06 2012 09:46 Defacer wrote:Show nested quote +On September 06 2012 08:55 sunprince wrote:On September 06 2012 08:43 HowitZer wrote:On September 06 2012 07:28 natrus wrote:On September 06 2012 07:01 Troxle wrote:
Should insurance companies be allowed to deny people coverage? Yes, they are a BUSINESS not a RIGHT. If a company covers you, they are providin' you with money. Insurance is a low risk high profit business, they don't want to go into high risk because then profit decreases. Insurance isn't out to save lives and protect the world, they are doin' what EVERY BUSINESS should do and that means increasin' profits.
This is why I support Nation Healthcare. To me, health is a right and poor people shouldn't have to die because they cant afford insurance (which is way high in America) or an expensive operation. And yes we raise taxes to pay for it. You have a right to manage your health like you have a right to manage your speech. Only when either does not infringe upon the rights of others. You do not have a right to manage your health in a way that hurts others, whether by carrying around infectious diseases instead of getting treated or by skimping on health insurance and leaving taxpayers to foot the bill when something happens. Out of curiosity, where are you on the healthcare debate? Tax payers where already paying for other people's health care (ex. medicaid and emergency services) before the ACA. Do you feel it is better that everyone be forced to pay into system to extend and improve their own care, or do you think that tax payers should still pay for things like medicaid, but the benefits should be capped (ex. voucher system).
Generally speaking, my stance on health care is pragmatic. Though as libertarian-leaning I'd prefer to let the free market sort it out, the health care system is one of those cases where there's far too many (expensive) exernalities unless managed by some sort of government system.
Since the Congressional Budget Office and related government agencies all project that a single payer system would be cheapest, I'd prefer that over the abomination we currently have under the Medicare/Medicaid entitlement programs (which costs us 23% of our budget and gives us very little in return). We could easily implement a system modelled after the VHA, which outperforms all other sectors of American health care (especially Medicare).
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On September 06 2012 13:34 sunprince wrote:Show nested quote +On September 06 2012 09:46 Defacer wrote:On September 06 2012 08:55 sunprince wrote:On September 06 2012 08:43 HowitZer wrote:On September 06 2012 07:28 natrus wrote:On September 06 2012 07:01 Troxle wrote:
Should insurance companies be allowed to deny people coverage? Yes, they are a BUSINESS not a RIGHT. If a company covers you, they are providin' you with money. Insurance is a low risk high profit business, they don't want to go into high risk because then profit decreases. Insurance isn't out to save lives and protect the world, they are doin' what EVERY BUSINESS should do and that means increasin' profits.
This is why I support Nation Healthcare. To me, health is a right and poor people shouldn't have to die because they cant afford insurance (which is way high in America) or an expensive operation. And yes we raise taxes to pay for it. You have a right to manage your health like you have a right to manage your speech. Only when either does not infringe upon the rights of others. You do not have a right to manage your health in a way that hurts others, whether by carrying around infectious diseases instead of getting treated or by skimping on health insurance and leaving taxpayers to foot the bill when something happens. Out of curiosity, where are you on the healthcare debate? Tax payers where already paying for other people's health care (ex. medicaid and emergency services) before the ACA. Do you feel it is better that everyone be forced to pay into system to extend and improve their own care, or do you think that tax payers should still pay for things like medicaid, but the benefits should be capped (ex. voucher system). Generally speaking, my stance on health care is pragmatic. Though as libertarian-leaning I'd prefer to let the free market sort it out, the health care system is one of those cases where there's far too many (expensive) exernalities unless managed by some sort of government system. Since the Congressional Budget Office and related government agencies all project that a single payer system would be cheapest, I'd prefer that over the abomination we currently have under the Medicare/Medicaid entitlement programs (which costs us 23% of our budget and gives us very little in return). We could easily implement a system modelled after the VHA, which outperforms all other sectors of American health care (especially Medicare).
Thanks for taking the time to respond, it's nice to get a different, thoughtful perspective.
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2nd Worst City in CA8938 Posts
On September 06 2012 13:36 Defacer wrote:Show nested quote +On September 06 2012 13:34 sunprince wrote:On September 06 2012 09:46 Defacer wrote:On September 06 2012 08:55 sunprince wrote:On September 06 2012 08:43 HowitZer wrote:On September 06 2012 07:28 natrus wrote:On September 06 2012 07:01 Troxle wrote:
Should insurance companies be allowed to deny people coverage? Yes, they are a BUSINESS not a RIGHT. If a company covers you, they are providin' you with money. Insurance is a low risk high profit business, they don't want to go into high risk because then profit decreases. Insurance isn't out to save lives and protect the world, they are doin' what EVERY BUSINESS should do and that means increasin' profits.
This is why I support Nation Healthcare. To me, health is a right and poor people shouldn't have to die because they cant afford insurance (which is way high in America) or an expensive operation. And yes we raise taxes to pay for it. You have a right to manage your health like you have a right to manage your speech. Only when either does not infringe upon the rights of others. You do not have a right to manage your health in a way that hurts others, whether by carrying around infectious diseases instead of getting treated or by skimping on health insurance and leaving taxpayers to foot the bill when something happens. Out of curiosity, where are you on the healthcare debate? Tax payers where already paying for other people's health care (ex. medicaid and emergency services) before the ACA. Do you feel it is better that everyone be forced to pay into system to extend and improve their own care, or do you think that tax payers should still pay for things like medicaid, but the benefits should be capped (ex. voucher system). Generally speaking, my stance on health care is pragmatic. Though as libertarian-leaning I'd prefer to let the free market sort it out, the health care system is one of those cases where there's far too many (expensive) exernalities unless managed by some sort of government system. Since the Congressional Budget Office and related government agencies all project that a single payer system would be cheapest, I'd prefer that over the abomination we currently have under the Medicare/Medicaid entitlement programs (which costs us 23% of our budget and gives us very little in return). We could easily implement a system modelled after the VHA, which outperforms all other sectors of American health care (especially Medicare). Thanks for taking the time to respond, it's nice to get a different, thoughtful perspective.
I'm all for single-payer as well. Doubt we'll get it any time soon though.
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EPT
