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President Obama Re-Elected - Page 256

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Hey guys! We'll be closing this thread shortly, but we will make an American politics megathread where we can continue the discussions in here.

The new thread can be found here: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=383301
Defacer
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Canada5052 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-08-08 16:13:51
August 08 2012 16:09 GMT
#5101
And the hits just keep on coming!

I wonder if this will gain any traction? It's certainly intriguing, and like the Romney's off-shore accounts, not just some baseless accusation.


Mitt Romney Started Bain Capital With Money From Families Tied To Death Squads

"I owe a great deal to Americans of Latin American descent," he said at a dinner in Miami in 2007. "When I was starting my business, I came to Miami to find partners that would believe in me and that would finance my enterprise. My partners were Ricardo Poma, Miguel Dueñas, Pancho Soler, Frank Kardonski, and Diego Ribadeneira."

Romney could also have thanked investors from two other wealthy and powerful Central American clans -- the de Sola and Salaverria families, who the Los Angeles Times and Boston Globe have reported were founding investors in Bain Capital.

While they were on the lookout for investments in the United States, members of some of these prominent families -- including the Salaverria, Poma, de Sola and Dueñas clans -- were also at the time financing, either directly or through political parties, death squads in El Salvador. The ruling classes were deploying the death squads to beat back left-wing guerrillas and reformers during El Salvador's civil war.

The death squads committed atrocities on such a mass scale for so small a country that their killing spree sparked international condemnation. From 1979 to 1992, some 75,000 people were killed in the Salvadoran civil war, according to the United Nations. In 1982, two years before Romney began raising money from the oligarchs, El Salvador's independent Human Rights Commission reported that, of the 35,000 civilians killed, "most" died at the hands of death squads. A United Nations truth commission concluded in 1993 that 85 percent of the acts of violence were perpetrated by the right, while the left-wing Farabundo Martí National Liberation Front, which was supported by the Cuban government, was responsible for 5 percent.

When The Huffington Post asked the Romney campaign about Bain Capital accepting funds from families tied to death squads, a spokeswoman forwarded a 1999 Salt Lake Tribune article to explain the campaign's position on the matter. She declined to comment further.

"Romney confirms Bain had investors in El Salvador. But, as was Bain's policy with any big investor, they had the families checked out as diligently as possible," the Tribune wrote. "They uncovered no unsavory links to drugs or other criminal activity."

Nobody with a basic understanding of the region's history could believe that assertion.


By 1984, the media had thoroughly exposed connections between the death squads and the Salvadoran oligarchy, including the families that invested with Romney. The sitting U.S. ambassador to El Salvador charged that several families, including at least one that invested with Bain, were living in Miami and directly funding death squads. Even by 1981, El Salvador's elite, largely relocated to Miami, were so angered by the public perception that they were financing death squads that they reached out to the media to make their case. The two men put forward to represent the oligarchs were both from families that would invest in Bain three years later. The most cursory review of their backgrounds would have turned up the ties.


As Romney now seeks support from the Latino community in his campaign for president, his knowledge of Bain's all-too-few degrees of separation from Salvadoran death squads may become a topic of interest.

"Under Ronald Reagan, the U.S. sent billions of dollars to the murderous regime, which utilized that aid to fund the military and death squads in an effort to preserve the unjust privileges of the Salvadoran oligarchy," said Arturo J. Viscarra, an immigration lawyer, who, like many other Salvadorans, emigrated to the United States in order to escape the civil war. He said his family left the country in 1980 after his father began receiving death threats.

"To now learn that a man that may become president of the U.S. deserves some of his success due to the incredible inequality that the U.S. helped to preserve in El Salvador is ironic," Viscarra said. "It's morbidly funny.”


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/08/08/mitt-romney-death-squads-bain_n_1710133.html
Savio
Profile Joined April 2008
United States1850 Posts
August 08 2012 16:15 GMT
#5102
On August 08 2012 22:56 Vega62a wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 08 2012 13:28 Savio wrote:
On August 08 2012 11:08 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
Savio I can either post news articles and you close your eyes or I can check with you to make sure you avoid the thread in case I post and give times when I might not be in this thread, guess which one I'm going to go with.

As Republicans continue trying to cash in on the out-of-context “you didn’t build that” attack on President Obama, the Obama campaign is assembling an army of small business owners who say that they did engineer their own success — thanks to the opportunities afforded them by generations of American taxpayers.

The new Obama push, details of which were obtained by TPM, highlights small business owners across the country in a series of state-specific press releases and events throughout this week aimed at highlighting Obama’s “vision for an economy built from the middle out — where hard work pays off, responsibility is rewarded and everyone gets a fair shot,” according to the campaign.

The push is tied to Obama’s call for an extension of the Bush tax cuts on the middle class. But the business owners make clear reference to the continued “you didn’t build that” fight.

“I am a product of all the great opportunities our country gives its citizens. I grew up with middle-class values, where I went to public school. I went to college at a public university, where I received a Naval Reserve Officer Training Corps scholarship,” Angie Morgan, a co-founder of the Leadstar company says in a release sent by the Obama campaign to Virginia news outlets. “Upon graduation, I served my country as a Marine. Today I am a military wife and a small business owner that employs military veterans. I believe that President Obama’s leadership and vision create paths for the American Dream to be possible.”

On the trail, Obama is calling for more taxpayer investment in infrastructure and other projects — investments he was touting when he uttered the phrase “you didn’t build that” — a line Republicans chopped up and turned into a rallying cry. Several of the small business owners tapped by the Obama campaign say their businesses survived the recession thanks to government projects.

“President Obama knows that small businesses like ours are the engine of job creation. As the owner of Crenshaw Bros. Construction in Erie, I’ve seen firsthand how the president is looking out for us. The recession nearly ruined my company, but an influx of public-investment projects funded by President Obama’s Recovery Act rejuvenated our business,” Don Crenshaw, a construction company owner in Pennsylvania, says in one release. “Since 2010, I’ve added more than 50 employees and taken on an additional $10 million in business. And thanks to the President’s Small Business Jobs Act, I’ve been able to invest in the equipment my business needs.”


Source




Did you really just respond to a news article with a 30 second campaign ad?

You do understand that the former is journalism, even if it's left-leaning, and the latter is basically a 30 second bumper sticker, right?


Political blogs that have the purpose of supporting 1 party and hurting the other party are the equivalent of propaganda themselves in todays political environment. + Show Spoiler +
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talking_Points_Memo
"After the 2004 election, posts began to focus on the Bush administration's proposal to privatize Social Security. In addition to criticizing the substance of the proposals, Marshall [founder] argued that a unified front in the Democratic Party would deny Republicans political cover and force a loss for them..."


But even just picking out any random anti-Romney or pro-Obama news article from any source and just throwing it in here without saying anything yourself is just like throwing in a campaign ad. Either way, the intent is so increase negative exposure for the other candidate or increase positive coverage of yours. The intent and effect are the same.

Posting something and then actually participating in the discussion would be really nice.
The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of the blessings. The inherent blessing of socialism is the equal sharing of misery. – Winston Churchill
Defacer
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Canada5052 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-08-08 16:31:25
August 08 2012 16:24 GMT
#5103



What is so cunning about this Super PAC ad is that it ties in Romney's record at Bain Capital with a tragic story about a family without health care ... an increasingly weak spot for the Romney campaign.

While Romney and he's surrogates can deny any direct responsibility Romney may have had in closing down this particular plant, the man's story is just a back-handed reminder that Romney does not a healthcare proposal on the table that would prevent this story from happening.
Savio
Profile Joined April 2008
United States1850 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-08-08 16:37:52
August 08 2012 16:34 GMT
#5104
I do have to say that Obama's team makes good ads. I think they are more experienced than Romney's.

Of course, up until now, Romney has been very limited in how much spending he can do because he cannot yet use any of the money he has raised for the General Election. Which is why Obama has been hitting him hard as possible right now because he knows that Romney can't adequately respond.

However, once the General Election starts and both candidates can freely spend their money, you can expect that Obama will not be able to outspend Romney with no adequate response as he has been doing up until now.

Things will get interesting once the conventions start. That is when you will start to see real movement in the polls 1 way or another.

EDIT: actually that was made by Priorities USA

EDIT2: Agree with everything xDaunt says below.
The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of the blessings. The inherent blessing of socialism is the equal sharing of misery. – Winston Churchill
xDaunt
Profile Joined March 2010
United States17988 Posts
August 08 2012 16:35 GMT
#5105
On August 09 2012 01:24 Defacer wrote:


http://youtu.be/Nj70XqOxptU

What is so cunning about this Super PAC add is that it ties in Romney's record at Bain Capital with a tragic story about a family without health care ... an increasingly weak spot for the Romney campaign.

While Romney and he's surrogates can deny any direct responsibility Romney may have had in closing down this particular plant, the man's story is just a back-handed reminder that Romney does not a healthcare proposal on the table that would prevent this story from happening.

There's nothing cunning about the ad. It is disgusting and bottomfeeding, which is why even CNN and Wolf Blitzer turned against it:

BLITZER: A new attack ad by a Super PAC backing President Obama basically blames Mitt Romney for a woman's death from cancer after his company, Bain Capital, shut down the steel mill where the woman's husband worked. Let's go to our White House correspondent, Brianna Keilar. She's watching the story for us.

Brianna, on the surface, it seems pretty outrageous to blame Mitt Romney for the death of this woman. That's a pretty outrageous claim, but what's going on here?

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: It does when you dig deeper here, Wolf, because this ad makes it sound like this woman passed away shortly after Bain Capital closed down the steel plant where her husband worked. But in reality, she passed away five years after it closed.

And the former steel worker in this ad, I spoke to him on the phone today, and he said that during some of that time, his wife had insurance through her employer. So, Wolf, this is a heart-wrenching story, but it's not accurate.


(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

KEILAR (voice-over): Joe Soptic (ph) worked at GST steel in Missouri for almost 30 years. He was laid of after Bain Capital acquired the plant, eventually closing it down. Now, Soptic is featured in a new ad by Priorities USA Action, the Super PAC supporting President Obama's re-election.

JOE SOPTIC, FORMER STEELWORKER & OBAMA SUPPORTER: When Mitt Romney and Bain closed the plant, I lost my healthcare. And my family lost their healthcare. And a short time after that, my wife became ill. And then, I took her up to the Jackson County Hospital and admitted her for pneumonia. That's when they found the cancer. And by then, it was stage 4. There was nothing they could do for her.

KEILAR: It's a heartbreaking story, but the ad does not tell all of it. In 1999, Mitt Romney leaves Bain for the Salt Lake Olympics, stopping day-to-day oversight of the company but remaining CEO. In 2001, Joe Soptic (ph) loses his job when Bain closes the plant. His wife still has insurance, though, from her employer, Savers Thrift Store (ph).

A year later, Romney formerly leaves Bain, and it's that year, 2002 or perhaps 2003, Soptic tells CNN that his wife leaves her job because of an injury. That's when he became uninsured without fallback insurance from her husband. A few years later, in 2006, she goes to the hospital, is diagnosed with cancer, and dies just days later.

Soptic, an Obama supporter, who has appeared in another ad back in May for the Obama campaign blames Romney for the loss of his job and his insurance.

SOPTIC: That's the way that I feel. I mean, Mitt Romney, he's a very rich man. I mean, it's obvious if you watch him on television that he's completely out of touch with the average family, or you know, middle income people. I don't think he has any concept as to how when you close a big company like that how it affects families, the community. You know, it affects everyone.

KEILAR: The Romney campaign is blasting the ad. A spokeswoman saying President Obama's allies continue to use discredited and dishonest attacks in a contemptible effort to conceal the administration's deplorable economic record. The Obama campaign and the White House are keeping their distance from the debate. White House press secretary, Jay Carney, said he has yet to see the ad.

JAY CARNEY, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: I'm simply saying that I have not seen this. So, how could I possibly assess it without –

KEILAR: Will you assess it later?

CARNEY: If you ask me tomorrow, sure.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

KEILAR (on-camera): Now, Wolf, I followed up with Carney after the briefing, and he told me that he may look at the ad, but if I ask about it, quote, "my assessment will be, I have no assessment." This is kind of a case of a Super PAC being able to do the dirty work and the campaign and the candidate, and in this case, the White House trying to keep its hands clean, Wolf.

BLITZER: So, the White House at least now not touching this commercial. The Obama campaign, I take it, isn't saying anything about it either, is that right? What about the Super PAC, itself? What are they saying?

KEILAR: That's right. Everything is being referred to the Super PAC. I spoke with Bill Burton, a founder of Priorities USA Action. And I pressed him on this, are you drawing this link between Mitt Romney and this woman's death? And he said, no, we're not doing that. But Wolf, I think a lot of people who looked at that ad, certainly you, certainly I, did not walk away from it with that impression.


Source.

More importantly, it reinforces the perception that Obama and the democrats know jackshit about business and how the economy works. Let's think about what the ad is actually saying. It is basically saying that no one can ever shut down a business or fire workers ever. The ad is preposterous any way you cut it. Unfortunately, there are a bunch of idiots out there who will buy right into its message.
Defacer
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Canada5052 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-08-08 16:41:58
August 08 2012 16:41 GMT
#5106
On August 09 2012 01:35 xDaunt wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 09 2012 01:24 Defacer wrote:


http://youtu.be/Nj70XqOxptU

What is so cunning about this Super PAC add is that it ties in Romney's record at Bain Capital with a tragic story about a family without health care ... an increasingly weak spot for the Romney campaign.

While Romney and he's surrogates can deny any direct responsibility Romney may have had in closing down this particular plant, the man's story is just a back-handed reminder that Romney does not a healthcare proposal on the table that would prevent this story from happening.

There's nothing cunning about the ad. It is disgusting and bottomfeeding, which is why even CNN and Wolf Blitzer turned against it:



There's the brilliance, sucker. Free air time and publicity for an ad that essentially claims Romney is a heartless peice of shit!

Here's a Romney spokewomans' response on Fox news this morning.

On the broader issue of people's tenuous health care, Romney spokeswoman Andrea Saul offered up an excellent suggestion this morning on Fox: The people in the ad should have moved to Massachusetts! According to a tweet from a Boston Globe reporter, Saul said: "If people had been in Massachusetts under Governor Romney’s health care plan, they would have had health care."


That's right. A Romney spokewoman basically offered government mandated health insurance as a solution to this man's problems.

BWAHAHAHHAAHAHAAHH!!!!!
xDaunt
Profile Joined March 2010
United States17988 Posts
August 08 2012 16:48 GMT
#5107
On August 09 2012 01:41 Defacer wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 09 2012 01:35 xDaunt wrote:
On August 09 2012 01:24 Defacer wrote:


http://youtu.be/Nj70XqOxptU

What is so cunning about this Super PAC add is that it ties in Romney's record at Bain Capital with a tragic story about a family without health care ... an increasingly weak spot for the Romney campaign.

While Romney and he's surrogates can deny any direct responsibility Romney may have had in closing down this particular plant, the man's story is just a back-handed reminder that Romney does not a healthcare proposal on the table that would prevent this story from happening.

There's nothing cunning about the ad. It is disgusting and bottomfeeding, which is why even CNN and Wolf Blitzer turned against it:



There's the brilliance, sucker. Free air time and publicity for an ad that essentially claims Romney is a heartless peice of shit!

Here's a Romney spokewomans' response on Fox news this morning.

Show nested quote +
On the broader issue of people's tenuous health care, Romney spokeswoman Andrea Saul offered up an excellent suggestion this morning on Fox: The people in the ad should have moved to Massachusetts! According to a tweet from a Boston Globe reporter, Saul said: "If people had been in Massachusetts under Governor Romney’s health care plan, they would have had health care."


That's right. A Romney spokewoman basically offered government mandated health insurance as a solution to this man's problems.

BWAHAHAHHAAHAHAAHH!!!!!

Sorry, but only a very sick person can look at the ad this way. Some things are just plain indecent and not worthy of any praise.
farvacola
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States18826 Posts
August 08 2012 16:52 GMT
#5108
On August 09 2012 01:48 xDaunt wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 09 2012 01:41 Defacer wrote:
On August 09 2012 01:35 xDaunt wrote:
On August 09 2012 01:24 Defacer wrote:


http://youtu.be/Nj70XqOxptU

What is so cunning about this Super PAC add is that it ties in Romney's record at Bain Capital with a tragic story about a family without health care ... an increasingly weak spot for the Romney campaign.

While Romney and he's surrogates can deny any direct responsibility Romney may have had in closing down this particular plant, the man's story is just a back-handed reminder that Romney does not a healthcare proposal on the table that would prevent this story from happening.

There's nothing cunning about the ad. It is disgusting and bottomfeeding, which is why even CNN and Wolf Blitzer turned against it:



There's the brilliance, sucker. Free air time and publicity for an ad that essentially claims Romney is a heartless peice of shit!

Here's a Romney spokewomans' response on Fox news this morning.

On the broader issue of people's tenuous health care, Romney spokeswoman Andrea Saul offered up an excellent suggestion this morning on Fox: The people in the ad should have moved to Massachusetts! According to a tweet from a Boston Globe reporter, Saul said: "If people had been in Massachusetts under Governor Romney’s health care plan, they would have had health care."


That's right. A Romney spokewoman basically offered government mandated health insurance as a solution to this man's problems.

BWAHAHAHHAAHAHAAHH!!!!!

Sorry, but only a very sick person can look at the ad this way. Some things are just plain indecent and not worthy of any praise.

Sorta like looking at Romney's economic plan and seeing positives? Indeed, some things are simply unworthy of any praise.
"when the Dead Kennedys found out they had skinhead fans, they literally wrote a song titled 'Nazi Punks Fuck Off'"
Savio
Profile Joined April 2008
United States1850 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-08-08 17:02:02
August 08 2012 16:57 GMT
#5109
Apparently, Romney left Bain in 1999 and that plant was closed in 2001 (someone else made the decision to close). The woman died 6 years later.



Its a pretty sick ad claiming that Romney is responsible for her death. If Obama doesn't condemn the ad quickly and harshly, then it will reflect very poorly on him.
The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of the blessings. The inherent blessing of socialism is the equal sharing of misery. – Winston Churchill
xDaunt
Profile Joined March 2010
United States17988 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-08-08 16:58:49
August 08 2012 16:58 GMT
#5110
On August 09 2012 01:52 farvacola wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 09 2012 01:48 xDaunt wrote:
On August 09 2012 01:41 Defacer wrote:
On August 09 2012 01:35 xDaunt wrote:
On August 09 2012 01:24 Defacer wrote:


http://youtu.be/Nj70XqOxptU

What is so cunning about this Super PAC add is that it ties in Romney's record at Bain Capital with a tragic story about a family without health care ... an increasingly weak spot for the Romney campaign.

While Romney and he's surrogates can deny any direct responsibility Romney may have had in closing down this particular plant, the man's story is just a back-handed reminder that Romney does not a healthcare proposal on the table that would prevent this story from happening.

There's nothing cunning about the ad. It is disgusting and bottomfeeding, which is why even CNN and Wolf Blitzer turned against it:



There's the brilliance, sucker. Free air time and publicity for an ad that essentially claims Romney is a heartless peice of shit!

Here's a Romney spokewomans' response on Fox news this morning.

On the broader issue of people's tenuous health care, Romney spokeswoman Andrea Saul offered up an excellent suggestion this morning on Fox: The people in the ad should have moved to Massachusetts! According to a tweet from a Boston Globe reporter, Saul said: "If people had been in Massachusetts under Governor Romney’s health care plan, they would have had health care."


That's right. A Romney spokewoman basically offered government mandated health insurance as a solution to this man's problems.

BWAHAHAHHAAHAHAAHH!!!!!

Sorry, but only a very sick person can look at the ad this way. Some things are just plain indecent and not worthy of any praise.

Sorta like looking at Romney's economic plan and seeing positives? Indeed, some things are simply unworthy of any praise.

Are you really going to compare analyses of the merits of economic plans to an ad that fucking blames someone for killing another's wife? Nice.
Vega62a
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
946 Posts
August 08 2012 17:23 GMT
#5111
On August 09 2012 01:15 Savio wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 08 2012 22:56 Vega62a wrote:
On August 08 2012 13:28 Savio wrote:
On August 08 2012 11:08 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
Savio I can either post news articles and you close your eyes or I can check with you to make sure you avoid the thread in case I post and give times when I might not be in this thread, guess which one I'm going to go with.

As Republicans continue trying to cash in on the out-of-context “you didn’t build that” attack on President Obama, the Obama campaign is assembling an army of small business owners who say that they did engineer their own success — thanks to the opportunities afforded them by generations of American taxpayers.

The new Obama push, details of which were obtained by TPM, highlights small business owners across the country in a series of state-specific press releases and events throughout this week aimed at highlighting Obama’s “vision for an economy built from the middle out — where hard work pays off, responsibility is rewarded and everyone gets a fair shot,” according to the campaign.

The push is tied to Obama’s call for an extension of the Bush tax cuts on the middle class. But the business owners make clear reference to the continued “you didn’t build that” fight.

“I am a product of all the great opportunities our country gives its citizens. I grew up with middle-class values, where I went to public school. I went to college at a public university, where I received a Naval Reserve Officer Training Corps scholarship,” Angie Morgan, a co-founder of the Leadstar company says in a release sent by the Obama campaign to Virginia news outlets. “Upon graduation, I served my country as a Marine. Today I am a military wife and a small business owner that employs military veterans. I believe that President Obama’s leadership and vision create paths for the American Dream to be possible.”

On the trail, Obama is calling for more taxpayer investment in infrastructure and other projects — investments he was touting when he uttered the phrase “you didn’t build that” — a line Republicans chopped up and turned into a rallying cry. Several of the small business owners tapped by the Obama campaign say their businesses survived the recession thanks to government projects.

“President Obama knows that small businesses like ours are the engine of job creation. As the owner of Crenshaw Bros. Construction in Erie, I’ve seen firsthand how the president is looking out for us. The recession nearly ruined my company, but an influx of public-investment projects funded by President Obama’s Recovery Act rejuvenated our business,” Don Crenshaw, a construction company owner in Pennsylvania, says in one release. “Since 2010, I’ve added more than 50 employees and taken on an additional $10 million in business. And thanks to the President’s Small Business Jobs Act, I’ve been able to invest in the equipment my business needs.”


Source


www.youtube.com/watch?v=9lC1ReX19TA


Did you really just respond to a news article with a 30 second campaign ad?

You do understand that the former is journalism, even if it's left-leaning, and the latter is basically a 30 second bumper sticker, right?


Political blogs that have the purpose of supporting 1 party and hurting the other party are the equivalent of propaganda themselves in todays political environment. + Show Spoiler +
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talking_Points_Memo
"After the 2004 election, posts began to focus on the Bush administration's proposal to privatize Social Security. In addition to criticizing the substance of the proposals, Marshall [founder] argued that a unified front in the Democratic Party would deny Republicans political cover and force a loss for them..."


But even just picking out any random anti-Romney or pro-Obama news article from any source and just throwing it in here without saying anything yourself is just like throwing in a campaign ad. Either way, the intent is so increase negative exposure for the other candidate or increase positive coverage of yours. The intent and effect are the same.

Posting something and then actually participating in the discussion would be really nice.


To say that any news article OR blog article has the same journalistic integrity as a campaign spot is literally the most offensive thing you could say to a journalist. It is true that a left-leaning blog whose founder is vocally a democrat is more likely to select stories that make his party look good and make the other party look bad. There are plenty of those on both sides. But to immediately discount whatever they say because of the opinions of who says them is one of the reasons we choose our own facts in this country.

Campaign ads, by comparison, as demonstrated by the above discussion, are about as truthful or honest as a bumper sticker.

If you're going to tell me that the article that was posted was a lie, prove it. That burden is on you.
Content of my posts reflects only my personal opinions, and not those of any employer or subsidiary
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
August 08 2012 17:34 GMT
#5112
Stupid move the Obama team in the first place.

On Wednesday the progressive group Credo Action called on Obama to take down the ad, launching a web petition pressuring the president’s campaign to drop the coal attacks on Romney.

“Drop your cynical pro-coal ad,” the petition reads. “Is the Obama campaign actually misguided enough to think that anyone whose number one issue is promoting dirty coal would also be misguided enough to vote for Obama instead of Romney?”

The group praises the Obama administration for doing “some very good things” on coal, including using the Clean Air Act to “limit, for the first time, toxic mercury pollution from coal plants” and instituting a “Carbon Standard.”

Credo believes Obama is actually anti-coal, but is attacking Romney to score political points. That would put Obama, ironically, on the same side as pro-coal Republicans who attacked the Obama campaign earlier this year for not including “clean coal” in its published list of energy priorities. The Obama campaign added the term to the list (dumping “fuel efficiency” for “clean coal” on the campaign’s seven-bullet energy priority list).

And that fight was reminiscent of one from 2008, when the Obama campaign was forced to publicly amp up its support for “clean coal technology” after Joe Biden said he and Obama were against it.


Source
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
coverpunch
Profile Joined December 2011
United States2093 Posts
August 08 2012 18:04 GMT
#5113
CNN editorial deplores the administration's tactics

Harry Reid recently sallied forth with a series of attacks on Mitt Romney that had the desired effect. It created headlines. It stirred up the anti-Romney base of the Democratic Party. And it really irritated the Romney camp.

It has produced waves of condemnation because of the unsubstantiated assertions that Romney didn't pay taxes for a decade. Reince Preibus, head of the Republican National Committee, called Reid "a dirty liar." Democrats responded that this was a problem Romney brought on himself. All he would have to do is release his tax returns to end the dust-up.

But of course, this is one dust-up that will never end. Because in modern politics it seems the goal is to constantly find ways to smear the opposition, facts and decency be damned. That's the reason the birther lie endures.

Support his policies or oppose them, no one is for one minute suggesting that Mitt Romney did anything other than obey the tax laws of the United States. The reason that Democrats want to see the tax returns is not because they think he did something wrong but because he did something that might look unseemly. Like he was a rich guy taking advantage of loopholes. That virtually anyone in his position would do so is irrelevant. It's all about the smear.

The same is true with the attacks on Romney's tenure at Bain Capital. Romney is not being attacked for breaking the law (except by a few semanticists, who seem to be naïvely, yet deliberately, suggesting it was not possible for him to be chairman on paper but to be taking a leave of absence from daily operating responsibilities).

He is being attacked because it might look bad that companies he was involved with actually outsourced jobs or fired people. That he was fulfilling his responsibility to his shareholders in doing so and that the record of Bain was fairly good in terms of value creation is irrelevant when the objective is creating a negative narrative at all costs.

I have voted Democrat all my life. I served in the Clinton administration and worked for a Democratic congressman on Capitol Hill. I will vote for President Obama. But I deplore these tactics.

When Harry Reid goes on the floor of the Senate and makes assertions like he did, he demeans the institution. Which is saying something about an institution that is as dysfunctional as the U.S. Senate.

When the Obama team systematically goes after Romney for his business background, it makes sense as a political tactic, but it reveals deep insecurity about his case for re-election and it alienates the business community unnecessarily. As my old boss, the late Ron Brown, the former chairman of the Democratic National Committee, used to say, "You can't be for jobs and against the people who create them."

We should be using this election to have a serious and profound discussion about the role of the state and how to pay for it. Instead Obama seems intent on just smearing Romney with all the maturity of a dirty middle school campaign. For his part, Romney doesn't seem prepared to have that kind of discussion either, simply resting on the idea that Obama hasn't done good enough (which nobody has denied yet).
Denzil
Profile Joined August 2010
United Kingdom4193 Posts
August 08 2012 18:12 GMT
#5114
So who's actually more likely to win?

This Romney guy seems terrible
Anna: So Sen how will you prepare for your revenge v MC? Sen: With a smile.
Mohdoo
Profile Joined August 2007
United States15688 Posts
August 08 2012 18:26 GMT
#5115
On August 09 2012 03:04 coverpunch wrote:
CNN editorial deplores the administration's tactics

Show nested quote +
Harry Reid recently sallied forth with a series of attacks on Mitt Romney that had the desired effect. It created headlines. It stirred up the anti-Romney base of the Democratic Party. And it really irritated the Romney camp.

It has produced waves of condemnation because of the unsubstantiated assertions that Romney didn't pay taxes for a decade. Reince Preibus, head of the Republican National Committee, called Reid "a dirty liar." Democrats responded that this was a problem Romney brought on himself. All he would have to do is release his tax returns to end the dust-up.

But of course, this is one dust-up that will never end. Because in modern politics it seems the goal is to constantly find ways to smear the opposition, facts and decency be damned. That's the reason the birther lie endures.

Show nested quote +
Support his policies or oppose them, no one is for one minute suggesting that Mitt Romney did anything other than obey the tax laws of the United States. The reason that Democrats want to see the tax returns is not because they think he did something wrong but because he did something that might look unseemly. Like he was a rich guy taking advantage of loopholes. That virtually anyone in his position would do so is irrelevant. It's all about the smear.

The same is true with the attacks on Romney's tenure at Bain Capital. Romney is not being attacked for breaking the law (except by a few semanticists, who seem to be naïvely, yet deliberately, suggesting it was not possible for him to be chairman on paper but to be taking a leave of absence from daily operating responsibilities).

He is being attacked because it might look bad that companies he was involved with actually outsourced jobs or fired people. That he was fulfilling his responsibility to his shareholders in doing so and that the record of Bain was fairly good in terms of value creation is irrelevant when the objective is creating a negative narrative at all costs.

Show nested quote +
I have voted Democrat all my life. I served in the Clinton administration and worked for a Democratic congressman on Capitol Hill. I will vote for President Obama. But I deplore these tactics.

When Harry Reid goes on the floor of the Senate and makes assertions like he did, he demeans the institution. Which is saying something about an institution that is as dysfunctional as the U.S. Senate.

When the Obama team systematically goes after Romney for his business background, it makes sense as a political tactic, but it reveals deep insecurity about his case for re-election and it alienates the business community unnecessarily. As my old boss, the late Ron Brown, the former chairman of the Democratic National Committee, used to say, "You can't be for jobs and against the people who create them."

We should be using this election to have a serious and profound discussion about the role of the state and how to pay for it. Instead Obama seems intent on just smearing Romney with all the maturity of a dirty middle school campaign. For his part, Romney doesn't seem prepared to have that kind of discussion either, simply resting on the idea that Obama hasn't done good enough (which nobody has denied yet).


Smear tactics are unfortunately the most effective method of convincing the masses. You have to realize just how uneducated and unintelligent a lot of the country is. As long as these tactics work, its going to be what both parties use.
Saryph
Profile Joined April 2010
United States1955 Posts
August 08 2012 18:31 GMT
#5116
On August 09 2012 03:12 Denzil wrote:
So who's actually more likely to win?

This Romney guy seems terrible


I really enjoy THIS tool for tracking polls, if you're really interested.
Defacer
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Canada5052 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-08-08 18:39:07
August 08 2012 18:33 GMT
#5117
On August 09 2012 01:48 xDaunt wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 09 2012 01:41 Defacer wrote:
On August 09 2012 01:35 xDaunt wrote:
On August 09 2012 01:24 Defacer wrote:


http://youtu.be/Nj70XqOxptU

What is so cunning about this Super PAC add is that it ties in Romney's record at Bain Capital with a tragic story about a family without health care ... an increasingly weak spot for the Romney campaign.

While Romney and he's surrogates can deny any direct responsibility Romney may have had in closing down this particular plant, the man's story is just a back-handed reminder that Romney does not a healthcare proposal on the table that would prevent this story from happening.

There's nothing cunning about the ad. It is disgusting and bottomfeeding, which is why even CNN and Wolf Blitzer turned against it:



There's the brilliance, sucker. Free air time and publicity for an ad that essentially claims Romney is a heartless peice of shit!

Here's a Romney spokewomans' response on Fox news this morning.

On the broader issue of people's tenuous health care, Romney spokeswoman Andrea Saul offered up an excellent suggestion this morning on Fox: The people in the ad should have moved to Massachusetts! According to a tweet from a Boston Globe reporter, Saul said: "If people had been in Massachusetts under Governor Romney’s health care plan, they would have had health care."


That's right. A Romney spokewoman basically offered government mandated health insurance as a solution to this man's problems.

BWAHAHAHHAAHAHAAHH!!!!!

Sorry, but only a very sick person can look at the ad this way. Some things are just plain indecent and not worthy of any praise.


Oh, I'm not going to disagree about that. I agree that the ad is a disingenuous, cheap, cheap shot to the nutsack. It's downright Rovian.

But bear in mind the ad is only possible due to couple of factors:

1) the lack of restrictions on campaign finance
2) the extreme conservative position that the Romney campaign has boxed itself into. A moderate Romney campaign, running on his record as governor, would not be vulnerable to this kind of attack.

Imagine how good a fiscally conservative, but socially moderate Romney/Rubio campaign would look right now. Promising to repeal Obamacare while NOT committing to the Dream Act are distractions that are feeding into the anti-middle lower class narrative that is swirling around Romney.

Defacer
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Canada5052 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-08-08 18:51:28
August 08 2012 18:47 GMT
#5118
On August 09 2012 01:57 Savio wrote:
Apparently, Romney left Bain in 1999 and that plant was closed in 2001 (someone else made the decision to close). The woman died 6 years later.



Its a pretty sick ad claiming that Romney is responsible for her death. If Obama doesn't condemn the ad quickly and harshly, then it will reflect very poorly on him.


There's plenty of very, very irresponsible anti-Obama ads that are equally disgusting that Romney hasn't said boo about.

Theses are the rules of the game that Republicans helped create. No use crying about them now.

Check out this disgusting ad.


Tarot
Profile Joined February 2011
Canada440 Posts
August 08 2012 19:04 GMT
#5119
On August 09 2012 03:47 Defacer wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 09 2012 01:57 Savio wrote:
Apparently, Romney left Bain in 1999 and that plant was closed in 2001 (someone else made the decision to close). The woman died 6 years later.



Its a pretty sick ad claiming that Romney is responsible for her death. If Obama doesn't condemn the ad quickly and harshly, then it will reflect very poorly on him.


There's plenty of very, very irresponsible anti-Obama ads that are equally disgusting that Romney hasn't said boo about.

Theses are the rules of the game that Republicans helped create. No use crying about them now.

Check out this disgusting ad.

Show nested quote +
http://youtu.be/JZYsYtX1Za0


That ad is so amazing.
ticklishmusic
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
United States15977 Posts
August 08 2012 19:11 GMT
#5120
One word: Swiftboat

Republicans have no right to complain about low blows.
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