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On November 10 2012 03:31 acker wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2012 03:28 JonnyBNoHo wrote: The game is already changing. House Reps said they're willing to compromise and for revenue increases to occur. If Dems counter with a no compromise proposition then the responsibility will shift to them. So much for that mandate. If they're bending two days after the election, I look forward to December. Right now they seem to be signaling that they're taking a hard line on tax rates but are willing to compromise on tax revenue. There's a fuzzy line separating the two but they are different.
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On November 10 2012 02:17 JonnyBNoHo wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2012 01:55 paralleluniverse wrote:To add to my above post about the fiscal cliff: Krugman's op-ed today advises Obama to go over the fiscal cliff if necessary. His argument is basically: "We do not negotiate with terrorists!" And there's some nice snark in this post about Erskine Bowles. Politics first, economics second. Typical Krugman...
The alternative is doing whatever the Republicans say. It's like a hostage situation: the Republicans are saying, "Give us everything we want or we go over the fiscal cliff!!!" There are only two responses to this: give them what they want, or make them throw the country over the cliff.
This is not a good place to be, but we're only here because the Republicans want to extort stuff from everyone else. Ironically quoting BillO: "They want stuff."
Obama shouldn't give them "stuff". Not unless we get "stuff" in return (you know, a compromise).
On November 10 2012 03:31 acker wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2012 03:28 JonnyBNoHo wrote: The game is already changing. House Reps said they're willing to compromise and for revenue increases to occur. If Dems counter with a no compromise proposition then the responsibility will shift to them. So much for that mandate. If they're bending two days after the election, I look forward to December.
The question is if they're willing to compromise on "revenue increases" for the rich. If so, then this will probably be hammered out modestly amicably. If not, then it could get ugly.
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On November 10 2012 03:36 JonnyBNoHo wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2012 03:31 acker wrote:On November 10 2012 03:28 JonnyBNoHo wrote: The game is already changing. House Reps said they're willing to compromise and for revenue increases to occur. If Dems counter with a no compromise proposition then the responsibility will shift to them. So much for that mandate. If they're bending two days after the election, I look forward to December. Right now they seem to be signaling that they're taking a hard line on tax rates but are willing to compromise on tax revenue. There's a fuzzy line separating the two but they are different. There's a difference between saying your willing to do something and actually doing it. Let's see how the negotiations go before laying blame I don't see the Democrats as unwilling to compromise in Obama's first term but things can always change.
I really think the difference between tax rates and revenue increases through reducing deductions (I assume that's the plan, since it was Romney's) is something policy wonks and economist geeks care about, not the average voter, Republican, independent, or Democrat.
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On November 10 2012 03:24 oneofthem wrote: the specific campaign stuff means that the candidates' individual appeal and standing in the local community is important. "Congress" as an entity is detached from each congressperson, as far as evaluative process is concerned(sorites situation). congress itself has done a catastrophic job, congresspeople still get reelected by running on trivial stuff.
mandate language is indeed a result of the two party system but it is just so contrived. Yes, I definitely agree with you here. The problem ends up being one of conflicting priorities; take a stand against the politically convenient language that stands at the center of our current maleficent discourse and risk bogging down the entire process even more than it already is, or simply continue on with the game in the hope that "progress" can overcome the inherent issues with phenomena like representing political choices as support of a "mandate".
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You know what would fix the economy? A collection of Obama's speeches. That would sell a millions and millions of copies.
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I think the Nate Silver partisan hack thing is hilarious. Every time he's been wrong (Indiana in 08, two senate races in 2010, the Montana senate race this year) he's picked a Republican to beat a Democrat. If anything, his model is biased towards Republicans.
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Poll: Confidence in deal to avoid the "fiscal cliff"?We're Screwed (9) 45% Somewhat Confident (7) 35% Somewhat Skeptical (3) 15% Strongly Confident (1) 5% I don't know/care (0) 0% 20 total votes Your vote: Confidence in deal to avoid the "fiscal cliff"? (Vote): Strongly Confident (Vote): Somewhat Confident (Vote): I don't know/care (Vote): Somewhat Skeptical (Vote): We're Screwed
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Cayman Islands24199 Posts
always present the war face. so "somewhat skeptical but let's fuck them up rawwrr"
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Thank god Obama won I mean Mitt is just so conservative and stupid, hopefully the Americans can continue the good decisions for the sake of the rest of the world! I think the USA should be aware of the amount of support there was for Obama in the rest of the world.
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when it comes to reliance on certain big companies or wasteful sectors for employment, republicans are suddenly not very interested in leaving things to the market. wonder why!
a part of pessimism about the recovery is because of the fact that due to long term and catastrophic destruction of labor's bargaining power, the real economy's demand side is actually much weaker than is suggested by debt fueled booms of the last decade or so. it's the crows coming home to roost.
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Lol, did you read the article?
102 employees laid off in Utah. Sucks for them, but that is by no means a "recession."
In total, the article mentions less than 1000 people losing their jobs.
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On November 10 2012 04:49 TrickyGilligan wrote:Lol, did you read the article? 102 employees laid off in Utah. Sucks for them, but that is by no means a "recession." In total, the article mentions less than 1000 people losing their jobs.
The article was just an example not the entirety of layoffs brohan.
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On November 10 2012 04:51 CajunMan wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2012 04:49 TrickyGilligan wrote:Lol, did you read the article? 102 employees laid off in Utah. Sucks for them, but that is by no means a "recession." In total, the article mentions less than 1000 people losing their jobs. The article was just an example not the entirety of layoffs brohan.
K, well feel free to provide better sources next time.
Also, I'm not your bro, han.
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1: Read the Fox News title.
2: Click the "Read Full Story" button.
3: Read the KSL/9WSYR title.
Yep, Fox News.
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On November 09 2012 00:30 antelope591 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 09 2012 00:24 sc2superfan101 wrote:On November 09 2012 00:15 antelope591 wrote:On November 08 2012 23:32 sc2superfan101 wrote:On November 08 2012 23:22 revel8 wrote:So is Karl Rove still disputing Ohio? damn, but I wish people would chill out with all the hate. I didn't mind too much during the election because everyone was excited and what-not, but fucking-A, I don't even hate Obama that much (I don't hate him at all actually, but you know what I mean). I'm not saying don't be happy, and I'm not saying don't poke fun.... but it's this kind of shit, along with the "What kind of retard would vote for Mitt Romney!!!?!?!?!!?" crap that really makes Republicans want to laugh our asses off when you turn around and cry about bipartisanship and working together. Karl Rove made a good point and god-forbid he was fucking wrong.... shit. Republican's whole campaign was based on hate so for you to come in after the fact and cry about too much hate is hilarious to say the least have you been in this thread.... at all? I reckon I've been discussing this election in here a whole lot longer than you, and I made this point before the election, so please try not to assume you know something when you don't. "Kill Romney" was the Democrat strategy, in their own words, for this campaign. and that statement was made before Romney had even won the primaries, so don't come talking to me about running a campaign on hate. edit: FTR, I do think the Republicans needed to be better with their language and with the perception that they were giving off. so to add to my first point, don't assume things. I'll condemn Republican hate just as much as I'll condemn any hate from any side. I could care less how long you've been in this thread...the facts are that the republican ideology undermined everyone who wasn't an old white male or from the south. The facts were supported 100% by the actual results. 70%+ for Obama with every minority group and massive lead amongst women and younger voters. Speaks for itself really white women voted for Romney over Obama....
so you 1) didn't read the exit polls and 2) still haven't proven your claim that the GOP platform was based on hate.
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On November 09 2012 01:04 oneofthem wrote:Show nested quote +On November 08 2012 23:02 sc2superfan101 wrote:On November 08 2012 22:40 oneofthem wrote:On November 08 2012 22:31 zalz wrote:On November 08 2012 22:10 Nizaris wrote:On November 08 2012 21:32 blug wrote: Getting sick of people from my Country saying "YAY OBAMA WON!" and don't even really know what it means. Hell, I don't even really know what it means, but people are enjoying his victory based off of nothing, besides the fact that he acts like a nice guy and is black.
It really seems to me Obama does a really good job at making his opposition look evil not by dismissing or ridiculing his ideals, but simply by acting sincere/genuine. I'm not sure if that's a good thing. i know the US won't be getting a mormon as president so that's a good thing. we don't need religious ppl making policies based on an old book, instead of based on what is rational. I'm sorry but saying that rape is an act of god makes him look retarded. i know it means the us military won't be getting a funding boost.. another good thing. None of the people talking about rape were mormons. Also, mormons don't believe in anything all that crazy when compared to the others. You get your own planet? Jesus came to America? Indians were a tribe of Jews? Yeah, none of that beats believing that someone walks across water or comes back from the dead. People need to stop pretending like mormons are crazy, whilst themselves believing that god incarnate walked the earth as his own son. If you're an atheist and don't believe in any of this silly stuff, oke, fine. But I really get riled up from Christians laughing at what Mormons believe. as a religion/cult becomes more established and someone grows up in it, then they are likely only exposed to the surface ideas and don't know about the history of the movement. in that view sure mormons are nice folks with some backward cultural views, nothing too out of the ordinary. however, it is a very tightly organized religious colony with a theocratic organ that does exercise a bit of control on what members believe and have access to. in this it's prob not unlike some early christian colonies but it is still a distinct feature of it that can qualify it as a cult, as more than a throwaway insult. it is a legit cult. all religions are cults. does no one understand the definition of cult anymore? not going to go very deep into this issue. but by cult i mean a distinct sociological profile. the social facts surrounding mormonism distinguishes it. you can also call it a regional theocracy or soemthing. for your second question, the answer is no as evidenced by your post. whats especially hilarious about this is you got it wrong.... again.
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On November 09 2012 01:08 kwizach wrote: Karl Rove made no good point. The Fox News analysts weren't simply basing their projection on the difference at that point between the two candidates, they were basing it on where the remaining votes to be counted would go. They had way more information than Rove at their disposal on that matter - something he acknowledged himself -, and Rove's objection was precisely rooted in his incorrect belief that the Republican votes that remained to be counted could outweigh the Democratic votes that remained to be counted. Since the entire point of the projection was that this wasn't the case, Rove had no good point - only disbelief and shock at seeing his predictions be contradicted by reality. you missed the point: Karl Rove had different information than them. he was not aware, at the time, that the only county left to count was Cuyahoga.
different information = different interpretation. who knew?!?!?!
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On November 10 2012 05:02 sc2superfan101 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 09 2012 01:08 kwizach wrote: Karl Rove made no good point. The Fox News analysts weren't simply basing their projection on the difference at that point between the two candidates, they were basing it on where the remaining votes to be counted would go. They had way more information than Rove at their disposal on that matter - something he acknowledged himself -, and Rove's objection was precisely rooted in his incorrect belief that the Republican votes that remained to be counted could outweigh the Democratic votes that remained to be counted. Since the entire point of the projection was that this wasn't the case, Rove had no good point - only disbelief and shock at seeing his predictions be contradicted by reality. you missed the point: Karl Rove had different information than them. he was not aware, at the time, that the only county left to count was Cuyahoga. different information = different interpretation. who knew?!?!?! he had the same info. it's right before his face. but he only focused on the fact that there are some republican counties left. he should know that cleveland and toledo were not counted yet, but he focused on a small piece of advantageous fact in order to say, wait a minute, we still have some time to spin this.
edit: the cult 'argument.' let's consult the dictionary on that one cause language is god given and god speaks in a british accent. eh, mate?
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On November 10 2012 05:02 sc2superfan101 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 09 2012 01:08 kwizach wrote: Karl Rove made no good point. The Fox News analysts weren't simply basing their projection on the difference at that point between the two candidates, they were basing it on where the remaining votes to be counted would go. They had way more information than Rove at their disposal on that matter - something he acknowledged himself -, and Rove's objection was precisely rooted in his incorrect belief that the Republican votes that remained to be counted could outweigh the Democratic votes that remained to be counted. Since the entire point of the projection was that this wasn't the case, Rove had no good point - only disbelief and shock at seeing his predictions be contradicted by reality. you missed the point: Karl Rove had different information than them. he was not aware, at the time, that the only county left to count was Cuyahoga. different information = different interpretation. who knew?!?!?!
Oh, is that his excuse? He was the only one in the news station who was unaware of information that they're all supposed to be aware of and have easily-available access to? That's funny.
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