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Hey guys! We'll be closing this thread shortly, but we will make an American politics megathread where we can continue the discussions in here. The new thread can be found here: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=383301 | ||
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RCMDVA
United States708 Posts
Yeah it does. Florida election results will be released on election night, November 6, at 8 pm Eastern to accommodate voting in the Central time zone counties. Please be aware that while Florida polls close at 7 pm, Florida has two time zones and therefore voting will not be completed statewide until 7 pm Central/8 pm Eastern | ||
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bOneSeven
Romania685 Posts
But seriously, can anyone reasonable convince me that voting matters in this case? They're both funded by basically the same guys, so the special interests stay the same under each administration....and since special interest dictates most of what happens...Sure you can read thousands of pages to understand why this would kind of matter....but it's wishy washy mostly, not things that really happen, and the fact that something as simple as "power corrupts" is a constant and powerful equation in our political systems.....doesn't seem to tell me that it matters where you vote for the lefty guy or the whacky flipflopper guy. | ||
tree.hugger
Philadelphia, PA10406 Posts
All that said,we should know fairly early on who *will* win. If O takes Ohio or Virginia as the polls show him with a small but solid lead in those states, then he will be set to have a good night. If NC is not called immediately, same deal. But if NC is called fast, if Florida is called for Romney, if Ohio and Virginia are too close to call, then we'll know Romney might be on track for the upset. Again, the map and polls are in Obama's favor, so we'll likely know of an Obama win early, but if Romney is making things close, then we will take a while to know. | ||
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RCMDVA
United States708 Posts
On November 06 2012 01:30 bOneSeven wrote: so...with Obama we slowly go to our demise....and with Romney we do it faster....who to pick.....who to pick..... But seriously, can anyone reasonable convince me that voting matters in this case? They're both funded by basically the same guys, so the special interests stay the same under each administration....and since special interest dictates most of what happens...Sure you can read thousands of pages to understand why this would kind of matter....but it's wishy washy mostly, not things that really happen, and the fact that something as simple as "power corrupts" is a constant and powerful equation in our political systems.....doesn't seem to tell me that it matters where you vote for the lefty guy or the whacky flipflopper guy. I would say appointments to the Supreme Court. 3 justices will be over 80 soon. And Sotomayor has Type 1 diabetes. And Roberts has had a seizure in his past. So you never know. Could even be as many as 4. And look...Breyer was robbed by some guy with a machete on vacation, and he could have easily been killed. But hey...Republican presidents have a way of appointing SC justices that don't go as planned. | ||
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JDub
United States976 Posts
On November 06 2012 01:30 bOneSeven wrote: so...with Obama we slowly go to our demise....and with Romney we do it faster....who to pick.....who to pick..... But seriously, can anyone reasonable convince me that voting matters in this case? They're both funded by basically the same guys, so the special interests stay the same under each administration....and since special interest dictates most of what happens...Sure you can read thousands of pages to understand why this would kind of matter....but it's wishy washy mostly, not things that really happen, and the fact that something as simple as "power corrupts" is a constant and powerful equation in our political systems.....doesn't seem to tell me that it matters where you vote for the lefty guy or the whacky flipflopper guy. While a lot of things will be the same regardless of who our president is, there are certain issues where which candidate wins does matter a lot. 1) Disaster relief. Compare the federal response to Sandy under Obama to the response to Katrina under Bush. Romney doesn't believe the federal government should play a big role (or any role) in disaster relief. 2) Tax rates. If you are in the upper 1% then you're taxes will rise under Obama and fall under Romney. Romney claims he won't raise taxes on the middle class but his tax plan is also not mathematically feasible, so taxes on middle class families will rise under Romney or the deficit will balloon. 3) Climate change. Republicans aren't committed to doing anything about it, whereas Democrats are. If you think it's all a big hoax by the entire scientific community, or if you don't give a shit about the future of humanity, then vote for Romney. 4) Women's and minority's rights. If the right to choose for women or the right to get married for gays are important to you, then you should vote for Obama. 5) Foreign policy. Our president in many ways shapes the way the rest of the world thinks about us, and as commander in chief makes a lot of big decisions about our military actions. War is not to be taken lightly, given the vast toll it takes on the members of our military while in action and when they get home from war. I'm not too sure what we'd get foreign policy-wise with a Romney/Ryan administration, since they had been very critical of Obama's foreign policy for months, and then Romney did a 180 in the 3rd debate and started agreeing with most of what Obama has done in foreign policy. 6) Healthcare. If Obamacare is repealed as Romney has said he wants, then millions of people will lose their insurance and people with pre-existing conditions will no longer be able to get insurance. It's unclear how Romney will deal with these issues. | ||
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dragoonier
Germany154 Posts
But saying that the election doesn't matter is a very ignorant statement. If you look at the democratic party and republican party then you will massive differences in social problems. I can't see a woman or a homosexual voting for a the republican party in good concience. | ||
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kmillz
United States1548 Posts
On November 06 2012 01:42 dragoonier wrote: I definatly agree that both are bought by cooperations and lobbysts and from a european view they both seem pretty rightwing in most of their policies. But saying that the election doesn't matter is a very ignorant statement. If you look at the democratic party and republican party then you will massive differences in social problems. I can't see a woman or a homosexual voting for a the republican party in good concience. If Obama looks right wing by a European standpoint then I definitely don't want to ever live there. Can't imagine how far left you gotta be to think Obama looks right. | ||
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KlinKz
Canada149 Posts
On November 06 2012 01:48 kmillz wrote: If Obama looks right wing by a European standpoint than I definitely don't want to ever live there. Can't imagine how far left you gotta be to think Obama looks right. live in a land where college is paid for, live in a land that has plenty of hard workers, live in a land that is vastly diverse in cultures... if you dont want to ever live there, then I dont understand why. America is scared of communism, in all ways that I dont understand. Communism may have a lot of corruption but it doesnt mean its out right wrong | ||
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Zaqwert
United States411 Posts
On November 06 2012 01:42 JDub wrote: While a lot of things will be the same regardless of who our president is, there are certain issues where which candidate wins does matter a lot. 1) Disaster relief. Compare the federal response to Sandy under Obama to the response to Katrina under Bush. Romney doesn't believe the federal government should play a big role (or any role) in disaster relief. 2) Tax rates. If you are in the upper 1% then you're taxes will rise under Obama and fall under Romney. Romney claims he won't raise taxes on the middle class but his tax plan is also not mathematically feasible, so taxes on middle class families will rise under Romney or the deficit will balloon. 3) Climate change. Republicans aren't committed to doing anything about it, whereas Democrats are. If you think it's all a big hoax by the entire scientific community, or if you don't give a shit about the future of humanity, then vote for Romney. 4) Women's and minority's rights. If the right to choose for women or the right to get married for gays are important to you, then you should vote for Obama. 5) Foreign policy. Our president in many ways shapes the way the rest of the world thinks about us, and as commander in chief makes a lot of big decisions about our military actions. War is not to be taken lightly, given the vast toll it takes on the members of our military while in action and when they get home from war. I'm not too sure what we'd get foreign policy-wise with a Romney/Ryan administration, since they had been very critical of Obama's foreign policy for months, and then Romney did a 180 in the 3rd debate and started agreeing with most of what Obama has done in foreign policy. 6) Healthcare. If Obamacare is repealed as Romney has said he wants, then millions of people will lose their insurance and people with pre-existing conditions will no longer be able to get insurance. It's unclear how Romney will deal with these issues. 1. Private charities provide WAY more actual assistances than the feds after disasters. For every $1 the government spends fruitfully they piss about $100 away. Besides, FEMA is a drop in the bucket, much like PBS, it's just pointless demagoguery to talk about it either of them. 2. The problem is SPENDING. The deficit and the debt have been caused by massive overspending, no amount of tax increases will help, no amount of tax cuts will hurt, without aggressive spending cuts the US budget is foobar'ed. 3. Climate Change, formerly known as global warming, fomerly known as global cooling, formerly known as some other made up term, is make believe and nothing more than an excuse for expansion of government power. For the government to increase control of the economy and have more power over individual's lives they have invented a fake crisis to combat. 4. Aboriton has been legal for 20+ years and will be never be illegal again in the US. Using silly scare tactics to try to dupe naive women into voting for your side is rather silly. I'm pretty sure we had a Republican president and Congress for 6 yeras and guess what, abortion is every bit as legal now as it was then. 5. Obama's foreign policy has been identical to Bush's. Neither Romney or Obama have much of a foreign policy difference at all. 6. The government will destroy health care. Health care is a market just like any other, and the government meddling in it will simply distort it and make it worse. Our country is damn near broke and the last thing this sinking swimmer needs is another 50 ton entitlement program strapped to it's back. Your arguments are nothing more than pandering to poor people and special interest groups and promising them goodies or scaring them into supporting your side. No where do you mention things like hard work, economic growth, individual liberty, etc. These are the things that make a country great. Not electing politicans who will steal from others to give to you. As the number of parasites grow, eventually the host will die. | ||
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Fischbacher
Canada666 Posts
On November 06 2012 01:48 kmillz wrote: If Obama looks right wing by a European standpoint then I definitely don't want to ever live there. Can't imagine how far left you gotta be to think Obama looks right. I would also point out that Obama is very much a right winger from a Canadian POV, too. Obamacare in particulare would be considered extremist (as in far right) in Canada, and even our Conservative party "evolved" before he did on gay marriage. | ||
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oneofthem
Cayman Islands24199 Posts
i don't think obama is a knee jerk leftist, so The Economist type of worries about strangulating regulation is unwarranted. he should push very hard for closing of tax expenditure loopholes in the second term and if you get that done you can cut corporate tax itself to make hard hit manufacturing more competitive. nevertheless, i still think obama's biggest fuckup is allowing no reform for healthcare. expanding coverage is a popular issue, but it is not the real issue. the real issue is the cost. wall street dread dodd frank and having not looked at it too closely i have no idea why. the dust is not settled on that right now. i do think the fed did well and will continue to do well, but the student loan thing may be out of their hands for now. pushing for more employment is certainly the game for the next four years. | ||
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TheTenthDoc
United States9561 Posts
On November 06 2012 01:59 Zaqwert wrote: 1. Private charities provide WAY more actual assistances than the feds after disasters. For every $1 the government spends fruitfully they piss about $100 away. Besides, FEMA is a drop in the bucket, much like PBS, it's just pointless demagoguery to talk about it either of them. 2. The problem is SPENDING. The deficit and the debt have been caused by massive overspending, no amount of tax increases will help, no amount of tax cuts will hurt, without aggressive spending cuts the US budget is foobar'ed. 3. Climate Change, formerly known as global warming, fomerly known as global cooling, formerly known as some other made up term, is make believe and nothing more than an excuse for expansion of government power. For the government to increase control of the economy and have more power over individual's lives they have invented a fake crisis to combat. 4. Aboriton has been legal for 20+ years and will be never be illegal again in the US. Using silly scare tactics to try to dupe naive women into voting for your side is rather silly. I'm pretty sure we had a Republican president and Congress for 6 yeras and guess what, abortion is every bit as legal now as it was then. 5. Obama's foreign policy has been identical to Bush's. Neither Romney or Obama have much of a foreign policy difference at all. 6. The government will destroy health care. Health care is a market just like any other, and the government meddling in it will simply distort it and make it worse. Our country is damn near broke and the last thing this sinking swimmer needs is another 50 ton entitlement program strapped to it's back. Your arguments are nothing more than pandering to poor people and special interest groups and promising them goodies or scaring them into supporting your side. No where do you mention things like hard work, economic growth, individual liberty, etc. These are the things that make a country great. Not electing politicans who will steal from others to give to you. As the number of parasites grow, eventually the host will die. Actually, the real deficit problem is Medicare and Social Security, both of which Romney has guaranteed are going to remain in their current condition regarding benefits for soon-to-be retirees (a.k.a. the baby boomers). He's even painted spending cuts in Medicare as savage attacks on retirees. No amount of spending cuts alone will deal with the overflow; with tax raises alone it's theoretically possible but the country would buckle. The only chance for deficit reform is going to have be under a 2nd term president who hasn't made nearly as many guarantees are Romney or someone who cares more about principles than winning elections (and Romney definitely isn't the latter). And honestly the current healthcare system needs to be "destroyed." As someone who works in it, it's a ridiculously inefficient mess, and would be even more of one if Medicare and Medicaid didn't exist (and I can only imagine what it would be like working in a state without an individual mandate). | ||
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JDub
United States976 Posts
On November 06 2012 01:59 Zaqwert wrote: 1. Private charities provide WAY more actual assistances than the feds after disasters. For every $1 the government spends fruitfully they piss about $100 away. Besides, FEMA is a drop in the bucket, much like PBS, it's just pointless demagoguery to talk about it either of them. 2. The problem is SPENDING. The deficit and the debt have been caused by massive overspending, no amount of tax increases will help, no amount of tax cuts will hurt, without aggressive spending cuts the US budget is foobar'ed. 3. Climate Change, formerly known as global warming, fomerly known as global cooling, formerly known as some other made up term, is make believe and nothing more than an excuse for expansion of government power. For the government to increase control of the economy and have more power over individual's lives they have invented a fake crisis to combat. 4. Aboriton has been legal for 20+ years and will be never be illegal again in the US. Using silly scare tactics to try to dupe naive women into voting for your side is rather silly. I'm pretty sure we had a Republican president and Congress for 6 yeras and guess what, abortion is every bit as legal now as it was then. 5. Obama's foreign policy has been identical to Bush's. Neither Romney or Obama have much of a foreign policy difference at all. 6. The government will destroy health care. Health care is a market just like any other, and the government meddling in it will simply distort it and make it worse. Our country is damn near broke and the last thing this sinking swimmer needs is another 50 ton entitlement program strapped to it's back. Your arguments are nothing more than pandering to poor people and special interest groups and promising them goodies or scaring them into supporting your side. No where do you mention things like hard work, economic growth, individual liberty, etc. These are the things that make a country great. Not electing politicans who will steal from others to give to you. As the number of parasites grow, eventually the host will die. Well I think you do a good job of explaining the Republican point of view. I will briefly respond to try to make it even more clear how different the sides are: 1. You aren't basing this 99% wasted money on anything. The federal aid for Sandy was instrumental in getting aid to the people who needed it most. The people living in New Orleans got absolutely fucked over and were left stranded for way too long. FEMA was a joke under Bush, and it isn't under Obama. For more see Krugman's see here: http://www.nytimes.com/2012/11/05/opinion/krugman-sandy-versus-katrina.html?ref=opinion 2. Yes, the problem is that we spend more than we take in. If you think that taxes don't matter whatsoever, I'm not exactly sure what to tell you. Obviously we need to reduce spending and increase revenue. If we reduce revenue that makes it worse. 3. As I said, if you think global warming is a big hoax, then you should vote for Romney. 4. It's explicitly part of the Republican platform that abortion should be illegal except in cases of rape, incest, or the life of the mother being in danger. How is it a scare tactic to point out part of the offical party platform? 5. If you honestly think Obama's foreign policy is equivalent to Bush's, I'm baffled. There would have been no Iraq war under Obama, and we would have most likely killed bin Laden much earlier by not botching the shit out of Afghanistan. 6. The private industry has destroyed healthcare. Our system is broken. See every other country with a successful healthcare system for why government healthcare works. | ||
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0mar
United States567 Posts
On November 06 2012 01:59 Zaqwert wrote: 1. Private charities provide WAY more actual assistances than the feds after disasters. For every $1 the government spends fruitfully they piss about $100 away. Besides, FEMA is a drop in the bucket, much like PBS, it's just pointless demagoguery to talk about it either of them. 2. The problem is SPENDING. The deficit and the debt have been caused by massive overspending, no amount of tax increases will help, no amount of tax cuts will hurt, without aggressive spending cuts the US budget is foobar'ed. 3. Climate Change, formerly known as global warming, fomerly known as global cooling, formerly known as some other made up term, is make believe and nothing more than an excuse for expansion of government power. For the government to increase control of the economy and have more power over individual's lives they have invented a fake crisis to combat. 4. Aboriton has been legal for 20+ years and will be never be illegal again in the US. Using silly scare tactics to try to dupe naive women into voting for your side is rather silly. I'm pretty sure we had a Republican president and Congress for 6 yeras and guess what, abortion is every bit as legal now as it was then. 5. Obama's foreign policy has been identical to Bush's. Neither Romney or Obama have much of a foreign policy difference at all. 6. The government will destroy health care. Health care is a market just like any other, and the government meddling in it will simply distort it and make it worse. Our country is damn near broke and the last thing this sinking swimmer needs is another 50 ton entitlement program strapped to it's back. Your arguments are nothing more than pandering to poor people and special interest groups and promising them goodies or scaring them into supporting your side. No where do you mention things like hard work, economic growth, individual liberty, etc. These are the things that make a country great. Not electing politicans who will steal from others to give to you. As the number of parasites grow, eventually the host will die. [citation needed] | ||
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Jormundr
United States1678 Posts
On November 06 2012 01:59 Zaqwert wrote: 1. Private charities provide WAY more actual assistances than the feds after disasters. For every $1 the government spends fruitfully they piss about $100 away. Besides, FEMA is a drop in the bucket, much like PBS, it's just pointless demagoguery to talk about it either of them. 2. The problem is SPENDING. The deficit and the debt have been caused by massive overspending, no amount of tax increases will help, no amount of tax cuts will hurt, without aggressive spending cuts the US budget is foobar'ed. 3. Climate Change, formerly known as global warming, fomerly known as global cooling, formerly known as some other made up term, is make believe and nothing more than an excuse for expansion of government power. For the government to increase control of the economy and have more power over individual's lives they have invented a fake crisis to combat. 4. Aboriton has been legal for 20+ years and will be never be illegal again in the US. Using silly scare tactics to try to dupe naive women into voting for your side is rather silly. I'm pretty sure we had a Republican president and Congress for 6 yeras and guess what, abortion is every bit as legal now as it was then. 5. Obama's foreign policy has been identical to Bush's. Neither Romney or Obama have much of a foreign policy difference at all. 6. The government will destroy health care. Health care is a market just like any other, and the government meddling in it will simply distort it and make it worse. Our country is damn near broke and the last thing this sinking swimmer needs is another 50 ton entitlement program strapped to it's back. Your arguments are nothing more than pandering to poor people and special interest groups and promising them goodies or scaring them into supporting your side. No where do you mention things like hard work, economic growth, individual liberty, etc. These are the things that make a country great. Not electing politicans who will steal from others to give to you. As the number of parasites grow, eventually the host will die. And your arguments are nothing more than fearmongering. Summation of your points 1. Government wastes $100 for every one dollar of disaster relief 2. Spending is the only thing that is wrong! Taxes should be lowered!! (This akin to saying that you're 5000 dollars in debt, so you should get a job that pays $8 an hour instead of your current $10 an hour job) 3. Global warming is a government conspiracy to take over the economy. 4. Nobody in the republican party is REALLY trying to get rid of abortion. They're just saying that they will do exactly that. Trust them, they're telling the truth about not telling the truth. Or something 5. This is a valid point. 6. HEALTHCARE WILL DIE IF YOU VOTE FOR OBAMA Then you go on some tangent about the american dream, pulling yourself up by your bootstraps, and pudding pops. Or something. Truly an informative post. | ||
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ticklishmusic
United States15977 Posts
On November 06 2012 01:59 Zaqwert wrote: 1. Private charities provide WAY more actual assistances than the feds after disasters. For every $1 the government spends fruitfully they piss about $100 away. Besides, FEMA is a drop in the bucket, much like PBS, it's just pointless demagoguery to talk about it either of them. 2. The problem is SPENDING. The deficit and the debt have been caused by massive overspending, no amount of tax increases will help, no amount of tax cuts will hurt, without aggressive spending cuts the US budget is foobar'ed. 3. Climate Change, formerly known as global warming, fomerly known as global cooling, formerly known as some other made up term, is make believe and nothing more than an excuse for expansion of government power. For the government to increase control of the economy and have more power over individual's lives they have invented a fake crisis to combat. 4. Aboriton has been legal for 20+ years and will be never be illegal again in the US. Using silly scare tactics to try to dupe naive women into voting for your side is rather silly. I'm pretty sure we had a Republican president and Congress for 6 yeras and guess what, abortion is every bit as legal now as it was then. 5. Obama's foreign policy has been identical to Bush's. Neither Romney or Obama have much of a foreign policy difference at all. 6. The government will destroy health care. Health care is a market just like any other, and the government meddling in it will simply distort it and make it worse. Our country is damn near broke and the last thing this sinking swimmer needs is another 50 ton entitlement program strapped to it's back. Your arguments are nothing more than pandering to poor people and special interest groups and promising them goodies or scaring them into supporting your side. No where do you mention things like hard work, economic growth, individual liberty, etc. These are the things that make a country great. Not electing politicans who will steal from others to give to you. As the number of parasites grow, eventually the host will die. Despite the fact almost every single point you've posted has been disproven and you seem to just pop up and post random refutations and melt away when proven wrong, I'm going to give this a go. 1. Right. After Katrina, it was charity that redid the levees and all the infrastructure. Ktrina was a shitshow, but last I heard the Sandy response is not too bad. 2. Cuz cutting taxes and government spending in a recession is a great idea. 3. You're confusing a means to an end with an ends to a mean, if that even is a thing. What seems to be a fundamental problem with your thought process is that for some reason the left just wants big government for the sake if big government, not because they think its a good way to address issues such as global warming. Besides, man-made climate change happening is pretty much consensus among reputable scientists. 4. Cutting funding for Planned Parenthood. Reversing Roe v. Wade. Uhuh. I personally agree with no abortion except in cases of rape and mother's health, but cutting PP is not the way to do it. Education and access to contraceptives prevent abortions, banning them just results in unsafe illegal ones. 5. Okay, Obama didn't have fo po experience before he came into office. However, saying he just followed Bush is pretty ignorant. Increased drone strikes and spec ops over conventional warfare, stopping all these silly uni-lateral efforts is a significant departure. Romney's fo po cred: laughingstock in most of the civilized world already with comments about preemptive strikes on Iran, unconditional support for Israel, various comments about Europe, Russia and threats to start a trade war with China. 6. That analogy is wrong. First, it's more like taking off one of the 50 T weights and trading it for a 40 T one, as Obamacare has been shown to actually reduce the deficit. Please explain why government "meddling" with destroy the market. Your arguments are nothing more than a series of talking points from conservative news sources that try to frighten people that hard work, economic growth, individual liberty, etc are at stake. They aren't. What makes a country great is an environment where all people can succeed, and that's what the Democratic platform is doing. It's not welfare or entitlement, its fairness. Parasites. You know who is a parasite? A guy who takes significant benefits from the environment, but gives very little back and sits on his benefits and creates only a very small amount of value. Ultimately, I think Obama will get a lot more accompished in his second term where re-election is no longer an issue. He can just YOLO and give the Republicans the bird if he has to. | ||
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HellRoxYa
Sweden1614 Posts
On November 06 2012 01:59 Zaqwert wrote: No where do you mention things like hard work, economic growth, individual liberty, etc. These are the things that make a country great. Not electing politicans who will steal from others to give to you. As the number of parasites grow, eventually the host will die. How do rich people get rich again? Oh, that's right by having (increasingly poor) people work for them. You're right, though, the more people that get poor the closer you get to the point where everything truly does shut down. | ||
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Djabanete
United States2786 Posts
On November 05 2012 20:14 Romantic wrote: It is really simple. Mitt Romney thinks rightly that he would never get that 47% of the vote so his job is to appeal to Republicans and independents and not worry about anyone else. Romney is trying to pretend that Democrat voters are the same as non-income-tax-paying voters which are the same as lazy voters. He's wrong on both counts. (1) Tax revenue flows from the blue states to the red states, so pretending that non-income-tax-paying voters are all die-hard Obamites is boneheaded. (2) For Romney to judge people on the taxes they pay is the most hypocritical thing ever. For example, I make a thousand times less money than he does, but I still pay a higher effective rate than him (we'd pay the same rate if I didn't count my own income tax). Why is it that when Romney pays low taxes, it's responsibility, but when impecunious people pay low taxes, it's irresponsibility? He's not just a hypocrite, he's just completely wrong. I wish that Romney's 47% were locked-in Obama voters, because Obama would win in a landslide, being plenty well represented among the other 53%. | ||
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Napoleon53
Denmark167 Posts
On November 06 2012 01:48 kmillz wrote: If Obama looks right wing by a European standpoint then I definitely don't want to ever live there. Can't imagine how far left you gotta be to think Obama looks right. Obama dosn't look "right". He is simply out of scale. He supports civil weapon, which would be considered madness in Denmark. And "obamacare" is simply horrible compared to danish health care. Litterally nobody would vote for Obama if he tried in Denmark. | ||
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Leporello
United States2845 Posts
On November 06 2012 01:30 bOneSeven wrote: so...with Obama we slowly go to our demise....and with Romney we do it faster....who to pick.....who to pick..... But seriously, can anyone reasonable convince me that voting matters in this case? They're both funded by basically the same guys, so the special interests stay the same under each administration....and since special interest dictates most of what happens...Sure you can read thousands of pages to understand why this would kind of matter....but it's wishy washy mostly, not things that really happen, and the fact that something as simple as "power corrupts" is a constant and powerful equation in our political systems.....doesn't seem to tell me that it matters where you vote for the lefty guy or the whacky flipflopper guy. No. No one can reasonably convince you. Because if you don't understand that people's lives are dramatically effected by the actions of the POTUS and the Supreme Court, then you probably have a lot to learn, and election day is tomorrow. $5 trillion of reckless tax cuts. There's a difference. Every 5-4 Supreme Court decision in the future, another difference. You have a thousand thread-pages of vastly different opinions that do actually matter to people's lives in drastic ways. | ||
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