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President Obama Re-Elected - Page 1196

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Hey guys! We'll be closing this thread shortly, but we will make an American politics megathread where we can continue the discussions in here.

The new thread can be found here: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=383301
farvacola
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States18855 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-11-05 18:14:36
November 05 2012 18:14 GMT
#23901
Considering what is going down in Florida with understaffed early voting locations, provisional ballot issues, and shortened voting windows, this story struck me as simply incredible. We can manage to accept votes from astronauts but not poor black Floridians......
Call it the ultimate absentee ballot. NASA astronauts aboard the International Space Station have the option of voting in tomorrow's (Nov. 6) presidential election from orbit, hundreds of miles above their nearest polling location.

Astronauts residing on the orbiting lab receive a digital version of their ballot, which is beamed up by Mission Control at the agency's Johnson Space Center (JSC) in Houston. Filled-out ballots find their way back down to Earth along the same path.

"They send it back to Mission Control," said NASA spokesman Jay Bolden of JSC. "It's a secure ballot that is then sent directly to the voting authorities."

This system was made possible by a 1997 bill passed by Texas legislators (nearly all NASA astronauts live in or around Houston). It was first used that same year by David Wolf, who happened to be aboard Russia's Mir space station at the time.


Source
"when the Dead Kennedys found out they had skinhead fans, they literally wrote a song titled 'Nazi Punks Fuck Off'"
KwarK
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
United States43674 Posts
November 05 2012 18:14 GMT
#23902
On November 06 2012 03:01 RvB wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 06 2012 02:55 sevencck wrote:
On November 06 2012 01:48 kmillz wrote:
On November 06 2012 01:42 dragoonier wrote:
I definatly agree that both are bought by cooperations and lobbysts and from a european view they both seem pretty rightwing in most of their policies.
But saying that the election doesn't matter is a very ignorant statement. If you look at the democratic party and republican party then you will massive differences in social problems. I can't see a woman or a homosexual voting for a the republican party in good concience.


If Obama looks right wing by a European standpoint then I definitely don't want to ever live there. Can't imagine how far left you gotta be to think Obama looks right.


America has a very unrealistic view of what left is. They call Obama a communist, a socialist, a Maoist, a Leninist, a Marxist etc. etc. Obama is very much centrist.

On November 06 2012 01:59 Fischbacher wrote:
On November 06 2012 01:48 kmillz wrote:
On November 06 2012 01:42 dragoonier wrote:
I definatly agree that both are bought by cooperations and lobbysts and from a european view they both seem pretty rightwing in most of their policies.
But saying that the election doesn't matter is a very ignorant statement. If you look at the democratic party and republican party then you will massive differences in social problems. I can't see a woman or a homosexual voting for a the republican party in good concience.


If Obama looks right wing by a European standpoint then I definitely don't want to ever live there. Can't imagine how far left you gotta be to think Obama looks right.

I would also point out that Obama is very much a right winger from a Canadian POV, too. Obamacare in particulare would be considered extremist (as in far right) in Canada, and even our Conservative party "evolved" before he did on gay marriage.


Lol, no he isn't. Harper is further right than Obama.


I agree with you on Obama being centrist. People saying he's right wing for a European are exagerating, atleast in the political arena in the Netherlands I don't know how it is in the rest of Europe.

His hawkish foreign policy and lack of state control of healthcare put him pretty far right from where I'm sitting although Blair was left wing and turned out to invade places at whim so what do I know. No major politician in Britain would dare suggest an insurance based healthcare system though, we love our NHS too much (and for good reason, produces considerably better results than the US for half the cost per person).
ModeratorThe angels have the phone box
Pandemona *
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
Charlie Sheens House51493 Posts
November 05 2012 18:16 GMT
#23903
On November 06 2012 02:37 jdseemoreglass wrote:


Oh my good god that is hilarious haha. Why do i like Chris Rock so much xD

Thanks for sharing.
ModeratorTeam Liquid Football Thread Guru! - Chelsea FC ♥
Saryph
Profile Joined April 2010
United States1955 Posts
November 05 2012 18:17 GMT
#23904
On November 05 2012 22:25 Gorsameth wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 05 2012 22:18 paralleluniverse wrote:
Voting Is Already a Mess in Florida
http://news.yahoo.com/voting-already-mess-florida-041641182.html

7 hours in line to vote, is this normal?


The US does not need international observers. everything is fine here. please leave!




Source

In Arizona the Republican candidate for Senate is sending robocalls to registered Democrats "reminding" them where their polling place is located. There is a problem however, his phone calls are telling them the wrong locations.

Or if you go back a bunch of pages, you can see an information booklet that was given out, where the booklets written in Spanish had the wrong date for the election (a day or two after election day.)

[image loading]

Or if you remember the SoS in Ohio who was expanding voting hours for every republican leaning district, while ignoring the same requests for every democrat leaning district. Thankfully in that case the media yelled loud enough to fix that problem.
Klondikebar
Profile Joined October 2011
United States2227 Posts
November 05 2012 18:17 GMT
#23905
On November 06 2012 03:14 KwarK wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 06 2012 03:01 RvB wrote:
On November 06 2012 02:55 sevencck wrote:
On November 06 2012 01:48 kmillz wrote:
On November 06 2012 01:42 dragoonier wrote:
I definatly agree that both are bought by cooperations and lobbysts and from a european view they both seem pretty rightwing in most of their policies.
But saying that the election doesn't matter is a very ignorant statement. If you look at the democratic party and republican party then you will massive differences in social problems. I can't see a woman or a homosexual voting for a the republican party in good concience.


If Obama looks right wing by a European standpoint then I definitely don't want to ever live there. Can't imagine how far left you gotta be to think Obama looks right.


America has a very unrealistic view of what left is. They call Obama a communist, a socialist, a Maoist, a Leninist, a Marxist etc. etc. Obama is very much centrist.

On November 06 2012 01:59 Fischbacher wrote:
On November 06 2012 01:48 kmillz wrote:
On November 06 2012 01:42 dragoonier wrote:
I definatly agree that both are bought by cooperations and lobbysts and from a european view they both seem pretty rightwing in most of their policies.
But saying that the election doesn't matter is a very ignorant statement. If you look at the democratic party and republican party then you will massive differences in social problems. I can't see a woman or a homosexual voting for a the republican party in good concience.


If Obama looks right wing by a European standpoint then I definitely don't want to ever live there. Can't imagine how far left you gotta be to think Obama looks right.

I would also point out that Obama is very much a right winger from a Canadian POV, too. Obamacare in particulare would be considered extremist (as in far right) in Canada, and even our Conservative party "evolved" before he did on gay marriage.


Lol, no he isn't. Harper is further right than Obama.


I agree with you on Obama being centrist. People saying he's right wing for a European are exagerating, atleast in the political arena in the Netherlands I don't know how it is in the rest of Europe.

His hawkish foreign policy and lack of state control of healthcare put him pretty far right from where I'm sitting although Blair was left wing and turned out to invade places at whim so what do I know. No major politician in Britain would dare suggest an insurance based healthcare system though, we love our NHS too much (and for good reason, produces considerably better results than the US for half the cost per person).


Our ludicrously privatized military has INSANE lobbying power. No politician is safe from it. We could elect the dirtiest hippie in the country and they'd still be angsting to go to war because our private military companies would be throwing money at them.

Ironically, Romney is further left on healthcare than Obama if you think his stint as governor is still relevant.
#2throwed
ThreeAcross
Profile Joined January 2011
172 Posts
November 05 2012 18:20 GMT
#23906
On November 06 2012 03:14 farvacola wrote:
Considering what is going down in Florida with understaffed early voting locations, provisional ballot issues, and shortened voting windows, this story struck me as simply incredible. We can manage to accept votes from astronauts but not poor black Floridians......
Show nested quote +
Call it the ultimate absentee ballot. NASA astronauts aboard the International Space Station have the option of voting in tomorrow's (Nov. 6) presidential election from orbit, hundreds of miles above their nearest polling location.

Astronauts residing on the orbiting lab receive a digital version of their ballot, which is beamed up by Mission Control at the agency's Johnson Space Center (JSC) in Houston. Filled-out ballots find their way back down to Earth along the same path.

"They send it back to Mission Control," said NASA spokesman Jay Bolden of JSC. "It's a secure ballot that is then sent directly to the voting authorities."

This system was made possible by a 1997 bill passed by Texas legislators (nearly all NASA astronauts live in or around Houston). It was first used that same year by David Wolf, who happened to be aboard Russia's Mir space station at the time.


Source


You are right. I only see poor black people in line waiting to vote in Florida.

While I think it's pretty ridiculous what Florida is doing, can we stop this crappy rhetoric?
BluePanther
Profile Joined March 2011
United States2776 Posts
November 05 2012 18:21 GMT
#23907
On November 06 2012 03:17 Klondikebar wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 06 2012 03:14 KwarK wrote:
On November 06 2012 03:01 RvB wrote:
On November 06 2012 02:55 sevencck wrote:
On November 06 2012 01:48 kmillz wrote:
On November 06 2012 01:42 dragoonier wrote:
I definatly agree that both are bought by cooperations and lobbysts and from a european view they both seem pretty rightwing in most of their policies.
But saying that the election doesn't matter is a very ignorant statement. If you look at the democratic party and republican party then you will massive differences in social problems. I can't see a woman or a homosexual voting for a the republican party in good concience.


If Obama looks right wing by a European standpoint then I definitely don't want to ever live there. Can't imagine how far left you gotta be to think Obama looks right.


America has a very unrealistic view of what left is. They call Obama a communist, a socialist, a Maoist, a Leninist, a Marxist etc. etc. Obama is very much centrist.

On November 06 2012 01:59 Fischbacher wrote:
On November 06 2012 01:48 kmillz wrote:
On November 06 2012 01:42 dragoonier wrote:
I definatly agree that both are bought by cooperations and lobbysts and from a european view they both seem pretty rightwing in most of their policies.
But saying that the election doesn't matter is a very ignorant statement. If you look at the democratic party and republican party then you will massive differences in social problems. I can't see a woman or a homosexual voting for a the republican party in good concience.


If Obama looks right wing by a European standpoint then I definitely don't want to ever live there. Can't imagine how far left you gotta be to think Obama looks right.

I would also point out that Obama is very much a right winger from a Canadian POV, too. Obamacare in particulare would be considered extremist (as in far right) in Canada, and even our Conservative party "evolved" before he did on gay marriage.


Lol, no he isn't. Harper is further right than Obama.


I agree with you on Obama being centrist. People saying he's right wing for a European are exagerating, atleast in the political arena in the Netherlands I don't know how it is in the rest of Europe.

His hawkish foreign policy and lack of state control of healthcare put him pretty far right from where I'm sitting although Blair was left wing and turned out to invade places at whim so what do I know. No major politician in Britain would dare suggest an insurance based healthcare system though, we love our NHS too much (and for good reason, produces considerably better results than the US for half the cost per person).


Our ludicrously privatized military has INSANE lobbying power. No politician is safe from it. We could elect the dirtiest hippie in the country and they'd still be angsting to go to war because our private military companies would be throwing money at them.

Ironically, Romney is further left on healthcare than Obama if you think his stint as governor is still relevant.


?

I'm sorry, but I see the money that comes in, and to be quite honest I have yet to see a check from any military company. I think a few Halliburton execs, but no more than comes from any other industry out there. I think you need a wakeup call to reality.
farvacola
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States18855 Posts
November 05 2012 18:22 GMT
#23908
On November 06 2012 03:20 ThreeAcross wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 06 2012 03:14 farvacola wrote:
Considering what is going down in Florida with understaffed early voting locations, provisional ballot issues, and shortened voting windows, this story struck me as simply incredible. We can manage to accept votes from astronauts but not poor black Floridians......
Call it the ultimate absentee ballot. NASA astronauts aboard the International Space Station have the option of voting in tomorrow's (Nov. 6) presidential election from orbit, hundreds of miles above their nearest polling location.

Astronauts residing on the orbiting lab receive a digital version of their ballot, which is beamed up by Mission Control at the agency's Johnson Space Center (JSC) in Houston. Filled-out ballots find their way back down to Earth along the same path.

"They send it back to Mission Control," said NASA spokesman Jay Bolden of JSC. "It's a secure ballot that is then sent directly to the voting authorities."

This system was made possible by a 1997 bill passed by Texas legislators (nearly all NASA astronauts live in or around Houston). It was first used that same year by David Wolf, who happened to be aboard Russia's Mir space station at the time.


Source


You are right. I only see poor black people in line waiting to vote in Florida.

While I think it's pretty ridiculous what Florida is doing, can we stop this crappy rhetoric?

No, we can't. Not while the Florida governor changes voting rules that affect almost exclusively low income black voters who traditionally early voted on Sundays via church transportation. That people are so readily offended by rhetoric they deem "crappy" while fellow Americans are outright disenfranchised is disgusting.
"when the Dead Kennedys found out they had skinhead fans, they literally wrote a song titled 'Nazi Punks Fuck Off'"
0mar
Profile Joined February 2010
United States567 Posts
November 05 2012 18:25 GMT
#23909
On November 06 2012 02:28 Napoleon53 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 06 2012 01:48 kmillz wrote:
On November 06 2012 01:42 dragoonier wrote:
I definatly agree that both are bought by cooperations and lobbysts and from a european view they both seem pretty rightwing in most of their policies.
But saying that the election doesn't matter is a very ignorant statement. If you look at the democratic party and republican party then you will massive differences in social problems. I can't see a woman or a homosexual voting for a the republican party in good concience.


If Obama looks right wing by a European standpoint then I definitely don't want to ever live there. Can't imagine how far left you gotta be to think Obama looks right.


Obama dosn't look "right". He is simply out of scale. He supports civil weapon, which would be considered madness in Denmark. And "obamacare" is simply horrible compared to danish health care. Litterally nobody would vote for Obama if he tried in Denmark.




Denmark is full of sensible people with a functioning government. I mean, there's a good reason why you guys top most of the leading indicies for healthcare/happiness/competitiveness/livability.

The US is full of some of the stupidest people in the world with a dysfunctional government. Despite proclamations of American Exceptionalism, the US is ranked middling to poor on a variety of indicies such as health/income disparity/competitiveness/education.
BluePanther
Profile Joined March 2011
United States2776 Posts
November 05 2012 18:27 GMT
#23910
It's a shame this wasn't released right after the debate :/

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2012/11/05/cbs_releases_unaired_footage_of_obama_refusing_to_call_benghazi_a_terror_attack.html?utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=rcp-today-newsletter
ThreeAcross
Profile Joined January 2011
172 Posts
November 05 2012 18:32 GMT
#23911
On November 06 2012 03:22 farvacola wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 06 2012 03:20 ThreeAcross wrote:
On November 06 2012 03:14 farvacola wrote:
Considering what is going down in Florida with understaffed early voting locations, provisional ballot issues, and shortened voting windows, this story struck me as simply incredible. We can manage to accept votes from astronauts but not poor black Floridians......
Call it the ultimate absentee ballot. NASA astronauts aboard the International Space Station have the option of voting in tomorrow's (Nov. 6) presidential election from orbit, hundreds of miles above their nearest polling location.

Astronauts residing on the orbiting lab receive a digital version of their ballot, which is beamed up by Mission Control at the agency's Johnson Space Center (JSC) in Houston. Filled-out ballots find their way back down to Earth along the same path.

"They send it back to Mission Control," said NASA spokesman Jay Bolden of JSC. "It's a secure ballot that is then sent directly to the voting authorities."

This system was made possible by a 1997 bill passed by Texas legislators (nearly all NASA astronauts live in or around Houston). It was first used that same year by David Wolf, who happened to be aboard Russia's Mir space station at the time.


Source


You are right. I only see poor black people in line waiting to vote in Florida.

While I think it's pretty ridiculous what Florida is doing, can we stop this crappy rhetoric?

No, we can't. Not while the Florida governor changes voting rules that affect almost exclusively low income black voters who traditionally early voted on Sundays via church transportation. That people are so readily offended by rhetoric they deem "crappy" while fellow Americans are outright disenfranchised is disgusting.


It is disgusting to think that people only care about what happens to their side. I said what Florida is doing is ridiculous, but this isn't a sign on the door that says only people who aren't low income blacks can vote.

I don't agree with the reduction in early voting days, but this law was passed in 2011. There was still last Sunday for early voting for those people who got rides from church.

I'm sick of this partisan hackerie that has taken over or nation. Why must something always be turned into an us versus them moment. Why can't we agree that this is a bad decision for the people of Florida instead of saying this is bad for the low income black people of Florida.
Get over this craziness.
Souma
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
2nd Worst City in CA8938 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-11-05 18:36:09
November 05 2012 18:35 GMT
#23912
On November 06 2012 03:21 BluePanther wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 06 2012 03:17 Klondikebar wrote:
On November 06 2012 03:14 KwarK wrote:
On November 06 2012 03:01 RvB wrote:
On November 06 2012 02:55 sevencck wrote:
On November 06 2012 01:48 kmillz wrote:
On November 06 2012 01:42 dragoonier wrote:
I definatly agree that both are bought by cooperations and lobbysts and from a european view they both seem pretty rightwing in most of their policies.
But saying that the election doesn't matter is a very ignorant statement. If you look at the democratic party and republican party then you will massive differences in social problems. I can't see a woman or a homosexual voting for a the republican party in good concience.


If Obama looks right wing by a European standpoint then I definitely don't want to ever live there. Can't imagine how far left you gotta be to think Obama looks right.


America has a very unrealistic view of what left is. They call Obama a communist, a socialist, a Maoist, a Leninist, a Marxist etc. etc. Obama is very much centrist.

On November 06 2012 01:59 Fischbacher wrote:
On November 06 2012 01:48 kmillz wrote:
On November 06 2012 01:42 dragoonier wrote:
I definatly agree that both are bought by cooperations and lobbysts and from a european view they both seem pretty rightwing in most of their policies.
But saying that the election doesn't matter is a very ignorant statement. If you look at the democratic party and republican party then you will massive differences in social problems. I can't see a woman or a homosexual voting for a the republican party in good concience.


If Obama looks right wing by a European standpoint then I definitely don't want to ever live there. Can't imagine how far left you gotta be to think Obama looks right.

I would also point out that Obama is very much a right winger from a Canadian POV, too. Obamacare in particulare would be considered extremist (as in far right) in Canada, and even our Conservative party "evolved" before he did on gay marriage.


Lol, no he isn't. Harper is further right than Obama.


I agree with you on Obama being centrist. People saying he's right wing for a European are exagerating, atleast in the political arena in the Netherlands I don't know how it is in the rest of Europe.

His hawkish foreign policy and lack of state control of healthcare put him pretty far right from where I'm sitting although Blair was left wing and turned out to invade places at whim so what do I know. No major politician in Britain would dare suggest an insurance based healthcare system though, we love our NHS too much (and for good reason, produces considerably better results than the US for half the cost per person).


Our ludicrously privatized military has INSANE lobbying power. No politician is safe from it. We could elect the dirtiest hippie in the country and they'd still be angsting to go to war because our private military companies would be throwing money at them.

Ironically, Romney is further left on healthcare than Obama if you think his stint as governor is still relevant.


?

I'm sorry, but I see the money that comes in, and to be quite honest I have yet to see a check from any military company. I think a few Halliburton execs, but no more than comes from any other industry out there. I think you need a wakeup call to reality.


It's kind of common knowledge that politicians are in the pockets of Lockheed Martin, Northrup etc. and do not even attempt to make a secret of it.

Relevant:

+ Show Spoiler +
A cynic might conclude that this militaristic enthusiasm could be explained by the simple fact that Pentagon contractors spread a lot of bribe money around Capitol Hill. That is of course true, but there is more to it than that. Some members of Congress will claim that they are protecting constituents' jobs, but even that doesn't really explain it. The wildly uneven concentration of defense contracts and military bases means that some areas, such as Washington, D.C., and San Diego, are heavily dependent on DOD spending, but in most of the country the balance is a net negative: More is paid out in taxes to support the Pentagon than comes back in local contracts.

Economic justifications for Pentagon spending are even less persuasive when one considers that the $600 billion spent every year on the DOD generates comparatively few jobs per dollar spent. The days of Rosie the Riveter are long gone; most weapons projects now require very little touch labor. Instead, a disproportionate share is siphoned off into high-cost R&D (from which the civilian economy benefits little), exorbitant management expenditures, whopping overheard, and out-and-out padding--including, of course, the money that flows back into the coffers of political campaigns. A dollar appropriated for highway construction, health care, or education will create many more jobs than a dollar appropriated for Pentagon weapons procurement: The jobs argument is thoroughly specious. A University of Massachusetts study claims that several alternative ways of spending money would produce anywhere from 35% to 138% more jobs than spending the same amount on DOD (http://www.peri.umass.edu/fileadmin/pdf/published_study/PERI_military_spending_2011.pdf ).

...

When I arrived on the Hill during Reagan's first term, I was a conventional, mainstream Republican. I believed in the notion of peace through strength. At that time the slogan translated quite literally into spending more money on the Pentagon. The Soviet Union had invaded Afghanistan not long before, and the Warsaw Pact seemed like a powerful and monolithic threat. I did not know then (and was probably too naively trusting to have believed it even if someone had tried to dispel my illusions) that the intelligence agencies were systematically inflating the Soviet threat, and that the Soviet military was far weaker than we imagined.

The senior appointees at the CIA--chief among them Robert Gates, who was then deputy director for intelligence--became so enamored of the concept of the Soviet threat that they somehow missed the fact that the collapse of the Warsaw Pact lay only a few years ahead. Senators attending the hearings for Gates's confirmation as CIA director in 1991 brushed aside testimony from former CIA employees about his intelligence distortions because the fix was in, and President George H. W. Bush was not to be denied his nominee.

...

My doubts as to the proper management of our military-industrial complex here at home began to grow around the same time. I worked in a congressional office representing a district in Ohio where the B-1 bomber--a project the Carter administration had canceled and the Reagan administration had revived as a cornerstone of its buildup policy--was a significant source of employment. One can generally tell which weapon system is built in a congressman's district by the contractor models on the office desks, the pictures on the walls, and the frequent presence of lobbyists from the company that builds the system. In our case, it was all B-1 all the time.

By the late 1980s, as the first production examples began to enter service, a funny thing happened--although it would not have been funny to the taxpayer who was funding the plane at a then considerable cost of $280 million each. The aircraft's defensive avionics, which were supposed to detect and neutralize enemy electronic systems seeking to find and destroy the B-1, were seriously interfering with the plane's own offensive avionics, whose goal was to help it find enemy targets and attack them. In other words, the contractors had managed to build a self-jamming bomber.

Three planes were written off in crashes shortly after the B-1 entered operational status. Two of these were caused by a poor design in the fuel of hydraulic lines. It soon became evident that needless secrecy surrounded the crash reports: The services hid the details even from Armed Services Committee members with the requisite clearances and an obvious need to know what had happened. The B-1 was AWOL in the first Gulf war, and when it took part in operations in Kosovo in 1999, it flew only after older aircraft--like the antique B-52 it had been intended to replace--had already suppressed Serbian air defenses. There are dozens of weapons systems like the B-1 rattling around in the Pentagon's closet--cold war dinosaurs that are overpriced, underperforming, and unreliable. Every one of them has a coalition of congressional supporters who protect it from conception until decades later, when the military retires it from service; and even then, many in Congress will lobby for a reversal. Keeping these dinosaurs operating assures jobs for constituents. But at what cost to the rest of us?

...

This procedure (referring to numerous cover-ups) is now standard both in military departments and civilian agencies. If there is a procurement scandal, the solution is the Band-Aid of toothless "acquisition reform," leaving the same people to administer the programs. The failures of high-level policy judgments that played the biggest part in allowing 9/11 to occur were disguised as the much less significant failures of intelligence collection, analysis, and interagency sharing. Why? If the public were to blame policy judgments at the top, George W. Bush, Dick Cheney, Condolezza Rice, and several cabinet secretaries might be on the hook. But if the fault could be placed on operatives lower down the food chain, as well as on "institutional failures" of the bureaucracy, Congress and the public could be distracted by the monkey motion of "reform" and government reorganization. This is how we ended up with even more bureaucracy in the form of the Office of the Director of National Intelligence, not to mention the monstrosity of the Department of Homeland Security.

The dysfunctions of our uniformed military, our intelligence agencies (85 percent of whose funding flows through military budgets), and the rest of government did not arise overnight, and they did not form in a vacuum. They are partially the products of odd and seldom-remarked schizophrenia that has grown up in our political culture. There are many people active in politics who claim they would man the barricades and fight to the death against socialism. But these are almost always the same people who also say they adore the U.S. military, which is probably the largest--certainly the most lavishly funded--socialist institution remaining on Earth since the collapse of the USSR and the transformation of China.

America's military bases are separate little worlds with their own law enforcement and traffic rules--not to mention their own grocery stores (commissaries), big-box stores (PXs), and so on, down to their own DOD Dependents School system, child care centers, housing, and comprehensive health care system--all of them run by the government. There are important historical reasons why these facilities arose, having to do with the low salaries of the old draft military and the frequent remoteness of military bases from retail business, schools, and essential services (on the frontier or overseas, for example). These facilities remain an important factor in the retention of military personnel, particularly those with dependents, to this day. But it is a socialist, or at least highly welfarist state, arrangement. Today, with the advent of the all-volunteer force, salaries are much higher; according to the Congressional Budget Office, military pay averages around the seventy-fifth percentile when compared to civilian jobs with comparable skills. Other studies by the CBO have demonstrated that in several cases, such as the commissaries (the huge retail grocery chains operated by the DOD), a cash allowance would give service members the same level of grocery benefit that they enjoy now--at substantially less cost. Yet whenever the Pentagon offers a proposal to change these arrangements--such as letting annual healthcare premiums for retirees rise with inflation (they have remained the same since 1995)--Congress invariably rejects it, with the free-market, fiscal hawk Republicans usually leading the opposition.

This same sort of military socialism prevails in regions of the country heavily dependent on military contracts. Loudon County, Virginia, an outer suburb of Washington, D.C., offers a perfect example of this ethos. It is the richest county in the United States when measured by median household income. It is very enthusiastically Republican. And the number-one and number-two military contracts in the country, Lockheed Martin and Northrop Grumman, are located there. Fairfax County, the county next to Loudon, has the second-highest median household income in the country. The fifth-ranked military contractor, General Dynamics, is based there.

It is no anomaly that areas of the country heavily involved in military contracting are so wealthy. A study by the Project on Government Oversight found that in the thirty-three of thirty-five job categories the government paid billions more to private companies than they would have paid government employees to do the same job. On average they paid about twice as much. A source industry has told me that DynCorp employees acting as security guards at military bases are obtained under contracts paying the company four dollars for every dollar the guard gets paid. Beyond the extravagant profit margins involved, this arrangement reveals that the military can no longer guard its own facilities with its own personnel. Since the 1990s, our army can no longer even feed itself whenever it takes the field; service contractors such as Halliburton do that for the usual exorbitant markup. And the taxpayer takes a further hit, because the contractors often hire retired military personnel (or lure serving personnel to retire by offering them more pay); this means that these ostensibly private employees are frequently getting paid both a salary from the government that is washed through the contracting company, which takes its cut, and a government pension. To top off the bargain, this process is how the military loses some of its most experienced personnel.


and: http://www.opensecrets.org/industries/indus.php?Ind=D (Lobbying is what they pour a lot of money into, as opposed to campaign contributions where they contribute a fair amount but nothing drastic in relative terms).
Writer
Risen
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States7927 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-11-05 18:37:36
November 05 2012 18:35 GMT
#23913
On November 06 2012 03:27 BluePanther wrote:
It's a shame this wasn't released right after the debate :/

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2012/11/05/cbs_releases_unaired_footage_of_obama_refusing_to_call_benghazi_a_terror_attack.html?utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=rcp-today-newsletter


KROFT: Mr. President, this morning you went out of your way to avoid the use of the word terrorism in connection with the Libya Attack, do you believe that this was a terrorism attack?

OBAMA: Well it’s too early to tell exactly how this came about, what group was involved, but obviously it was an attack on Americans. And we are going to be working with the Libyan government to make sure that we bring these folks to justice, one way or the other.

He didn't know what it was, so he didn't know what to call it. I'm confused as to what you're trying to say?

Edit: Why did I even ask you. It's clear you're once again just trying to be misleading. Did you think people wouldn't click the link?
Pufftrees Everyday>its like a rifter that just used X-Factor/Liquid'Nony: I hope no one lip read XD/Holyflare>it's like policy lynching but better/Resident Los Angeles bachelor
JinDesu
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States3990 Posts
November 05 2012 18:37 GMT
#23914
On November 06 2012 03:35 Risen wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 06 2012 03:27 BluePanther wrote:
It's a shame this wasn't released right after the debate :/

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2012/11/05/cbs_releases_unaired_footage_of_obama_refusing_to_call_benghazi_a_terror_attack.html?utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=rcp-today-newsletter


KROFT: Mr. President, this morning you went out of your way to avoid the use of the word terrorism in connection with the Libya Attack, do you believe that this was a terrorism attack?

OBAMA: Well it’s too early to tell exactly how this came about, what group was involved, but obviously it was an attack on Americans. And we are going to be working with the Libyan government to make sure that we bring these folks to justice, one way or the other.

He didn't know what it was, so he didn't know what to call it. I'm confused as to what you're trying to say?


He's trying to say that Obama never said the exact words "terrorist attack"

Of course, saying instead that "we don't know who attacked us yet, but it was an attack, and we'll find out who it was" means nothing in his book.
Yargh
jdsowa
Profile Joined March 2011
405 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-11-05 18:38:53
November 05 2012 18:37 GMT
#23915
I have no issue with a date being wrong in Spanish. If you can't speak English, you shouldn't be voting in the US election. If I lived in a foreign country and wasn't fluent, I sure as hell wouldn't pretend that I had any authority to influence the direction of that country.

Most states have absentee voting and early voting. Florida is one of them. You don't need any excuse to write in an absentee ballot. All you need is a stamp and an envelope. States were taking absentee ballots MONTHS AGO.

The funny thing here is that paranoid liberals think evil racists are trying to steal the election from them by disenfranchising minority voters. But what's really racist is the insinuation implicit in the Democrat's charge that there are poor blacks that are so utterly stupid and incompetent that they can't possibly figure out what date to vote on, where to vote, where to get the forms, who's running, etc. That is racism.
Risen
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States7927 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-11-05 18:38:44
November 05 2012 18:38 GMT
#23916
On November 06 2012 03:37 jdsowa wrote:
I have no issue with a date being wrong in Spanish. If you can't speak English, you shouldn't be voting in the US election. If I lived in a foreign country and wasn't fluent, I sure as hell wouldn't pretend that I had any authority to influence the direction of that country.

Most states have absentee voting and early voting. Florida is one of them. You don't need any excuse to write in an absentee ballot. All you need is a stamp and an envelope. States were taking absentee ballots MONTHS AGO.

The funny thing here is that paranoid liberals think evil racists are trying to steal the election from them by disenfranchising minority voters. But what's really racist is the insinuation that there are poor blacks that are so utterly stupid and incompetent that they can't possibly figure out what date to vote on, where to vote, where to get the forms, who's running, etc. That is racism.


There is no official language in the United States. Every citizen deserves the right to vote.

Edit: Pottymouth language.
Pufftrees Everyday>its like a rifter that just used X-Factor/Liquid'Nony: I hope no one lip read XD/Holyflare>it's like policy lynching but better/Resident Los Angeles bachelor
EvilTeletubby
Profile Blog Joined January 2004
Baltimore, USA22259 Posts
November 05 2012 18:38 GMT
#23917
It's almost over, it's almost over... *rocks back and forth*
Moderatorhttp://carbonleaf.yuku.com/topic/408/t/So-I-proposed-at-a-Carbon-Leaf-concert.html ***** RIP Geoff
farvacola
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States18855 Posts
November 05 2012 18:39 GMT
#23918
On November 06 2012 03:32 ThreeAcross wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 06 2012 03:22 farvacola wrote:
On November 06 2012 03:20 ThreeAcross wrote:
On November 06 2012 03:14 farvacola wrote:
Considering what is going down in Florida with understaffed early voting locations, provisional ballot issues, and shortened voting windows, this story struck me as simply incredible. We can manage to accept votes from astronauts but not poor black Floridians......
Call it the ultimate absentee ballot. NASA astronauts aboard the International Space Station have the option of voting in tomorrow's (Nov. 6) presidential election from orbit, hundreds of miles above their nearest polling location.

Astronauts residing on the orbiting lab receive a digital version of their ballot, which is beamed up by Mission Control at the agency's Johnson Space Center (JSC) in Houston. Filled-out ballots find their way back down to Earth along the same path.

"They send it back to Mission Control," said NASA spokesman Jay Bolden of JSC. "It's a secure ballot that is then sent directly to the voting authorities."

This system was made possible by a 1997 bill passed by Texas legislators (nearly all NASA astronauts live in or around Houston). It was first used that same year by David Wolf, who happened to be aboard Russia's Mir space station at the time.


Source


You are right. I only see poor black people in line waiting to vote in Florida.

While I think it's pretty ridiculous what Florida is doing, can we stop this crappy rhetoric?

No, we can't. Not while the Florida governor changes voting rules that affect almost exclusively low income black voters who traditionally early voted on Sundays via church transportation. That people are so readily offended by rhetoric they deem "crappy" while fellow Americans are outright disenfranchised is disgusting.


It is disgusting to think that people only care about what happens to their side. I said what Florida is doing is ridiculous, but this isn't a sign on the door that says only people who aren't low income blacks can vote.

I don't agree with the reduction in early voting days, but this law was passed in 2011. There was still last Sunday for early voting for those people who got rides from church.

I'm sick of this partisan hackerie that has taken over or nation. Why must something always be turned into an us versus them moment. Why can't we agree that this is a bad decision for the people of Florida instead of saying this is bad for the low income black people of Florida.
Get over this craziness.

Hey now, you are the one projecting the facade of an "us vs them" mentality over top my bit of punditry. I am well aware of many Republicans sharing Democratic outrage at the voting debacle in Florida and brazen stupidity of Ohio SoS John Husted; more generally, Florida Gov. Rick Scott is a giant piece of shit with large numbers of detractors on both sides. If you want to jump aboard the "them" bus and share Gov. Scott's douche burden, go right on ahead. But just realize for a moment that if your standard for "proof" requires that someone write up a sign that explicitly says "No poor black voters", you might be going about this the wrong way.
"when the Dead Kennedys found out they had skinhead fans, they literally wrote a song titled 'Nazi Punks Fuck Off'"
jdsowa
Profile Joined March 2011
405 Posts
November 05 2012 18:40 GMT
#23919
On November 06 2012 03:38 Risen wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 06 2012 03:37 jdsowa wrote:
I have no issue with a date being wrong in Spanish. If you can't speak English, you shouldn't be voting in the US election. If I lived in a foreign country and wasn't fluent, I sure as hell wouldn't pretend that I had any authority to influence the direction of that country.

Most states have absentee voting and early voting. Florida is one of them. You don't need any excuse to write in an absentee ballot. All you need is a stamp and an envelope. States were taking absentee ballots MONTHS AGO.

The funny thing here is that paranoid liberals think evil racists are trying to steal the election from them by disenfranchising minority voters. But what's really racist is the insinuation that there are poor blacks that are so utterly stupid and incompetent that they can't possibly figure out what date to vote on, where to vote, where to get the forms, who's running, etc. That is racism.


There is no official language in the United States. Every citizen deserves the right to vote.

Edit: Pottymouth language.


Of course not. And nobody is physically preventing them from going to the polls. But ask yourself--isn't it utterly ridiculous that somebody who hasn't bothered to learn to speak the language should be voting in the election?
Risen
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States7927 Posts
November 05 2012 18:40 GMT
#23920
On November 06 2012 03:37 jdsowa wrote:
I have no issue with a date being wrong in Spanish. If you can't speak English, you shouldn't be voting in the US election. If I lived in a foreign country and wasn't fluent, I sure as hell wouldn't pretend that I had any authority to influence the direction of that country.

Most states have absentee voting and early voting. Florida is one of them. You don't need any excuse to write in an absentee ballot. All you need is a stamp and an envelope. States were taking absentee ballots MONTHS AGO.

The funny thing here is that paranoid liberals think evil racists are trying to steal the election from them by disenfranchising minority voters. But what's really racist is the insinuation implicit in the Democrat's charge that there are poor blacks that are so utterly stupid and incompetent that they can't possibly figure out what date to vote on, where to vote, where to get the forms, who's running, etc. That is racism.


It's racism to think that people might get confused due to misinformation? That's news to me. Oh wait, you're speaking nonsense.
Pufftrees Everyday>its like a rifter that just used X-Factor/Liquid'Nony: I hope no one lip read XD/Holyflare>it's like policy lynching but better/Resident Los Angeles bachelor
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