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President Obama Re-Elected - Page 1189

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Hey guys! We'll be closing this thread shortly, but we will make an American politics megathread where we can continue the discussions in here.

The new thread can be found here: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=383301
Saryph
Profile Joined April 2010
United States1955 Posts
November 05 2012 03:56 GMT
#23761
On November 05 2012 11:34 Souma wrote:
On another note, I'm starting to wonder if what they're doing in Florida is really constitutional or not... I'm sure there's no specific clause prohibiting someone from forcing voters to wait in line for several hours, but there's gotta be something that can be interpreted in a way that can slap the Florida Governor in the face.



The biggest thing about Florida that worries me, besides the six hour lines for early voting due to it being cut in half this year, is that there are tens of thousands of voters who have requested absentee ballots who have not received them. In Florida those ballots have to be turned in by 7pm election day to be counted (in the hand of the officials, not in the mail or postmarked by that date.)

If you've requested an absentee ballot then you no longer can vote at a polling place, even if you didn't receive your absentee ballot, or if you won't be able to get it back in time due to it being delivered so late. You have the option of casting a provisional ballot, but with Florida's history, the whole thing makes me nervous.
p4NDemik
Profile Blog Joined January 2008
United States13896 Posts
November 05 2012 04:09 GMT
#23762
On November 05 2012 11:29 farvacola wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 05 2012 11:02 p4NDemik wrote:
Seriously, on both sides modern politics in the U.S. suffers so much from a lack of humility and an overabundance of selfish, unobstructed, and unabashed pride. So many of us who are interested in politics put ourselves in a fucking bubble, watch MSNBC, CNN, or Fox News [whichever aligns closest with their initial beliefs]. We let pundits pump hot air into us, distending our actual positions, and constantly reinforcing them so that we resist at all costs accepting we could be wrong. We have elected a number of politicians who think this way.

So much of this thread is garbage. So many of us are talking over, around, and under each other's heads. If a friend poses a question concerning your personal well being do we ignore their question and immediately attack our friend? I'd hope most of the people in here, in their personal lives, actually have experiences that forced some kind of self-introspection. Maybe because TL tends to have a younger base of users many of us haven't suffered a fall due to our own pride. If you haven't it's coming. When there is a serious problem real progress cannot be made until you start questioning yourself. You can question other people your entire life and you'll rarely learn anything because you ignore their input.

I fucking love old people. Why do we idolize our grandparents, for some of you your great grandparents, and call them the "best generation?" It isn't because they won a war. It isn't because grandpa killed krauts and deposed Hilter, one of the worst dictators to grace this earth. I used to think this in grade school and high school. It's because after they went through all the horrific situations that encompassed that war, they came home and rebuilt most of the civilized world, and achieved great things. I truly believe the humility forced upon them during that time is what galvanized the whole world, and specifically this country to forge ahead.

Even those that grew up during the Cold War grew up knowing the humbling fact that if things went wrong the world as we know it could be destroyed in a matter of minutes. What keeps us humble now? I suppose 9/11 humbled us in a way, but really I think that just scared us. Americans by and large still are coddled from every angle by the media, their politicians, and while we're children, our family for the most part.

I'm sorry for proselytizing about the grand problems concerning politics. It's just that we're so far removed from that now (at least in politics) wonder what it will take to get that back.

Fuck pride. It's the ruin of all of us and this thread seethes with it every time I open it. I don't claim to be above it, it pervades everything when it comes these matters and I've said stuff in this thread on impulse that was just not smart.

TL:DR - Politics and this thread by extension are rife with pride and lacking in humility. We're in for a huge fucking wake up call if we continue.

While I agree with the idea that we ought to always try harder to work towards a more effective and level-headed political dialogue, I'm not sure I agree with how you go about justifying it. You speak of past events like the Cold War and World War 2 as though they generally fed into a collectively more humble/less prideful population, but I'm not sure this is the case. I mean, by virtue of the Civil Rights movement alone, huge numbers of people previously divorced from a collective place of societal equality first found themselves able to celebrate their pride in public and do so loudly. We may very well be suffering the side effects of having suppressed minority cultural prominence to this day, but what if this is simply a long term societal cost associated with the subjugation of millions, something we simply cannot avoid as an equilibrium is approached? We can't really know, but I'm just spitballing as to why "pride" may be the wrong frame of indictment.

I'm not sure WW2 taught the US humility. Sure, those involved in the war (which was pretty much everybody to some extent) came into contact with the very sobering realities of war and destruction on a grand scale. But coming out of the conflict, internationally we were at the head of the pack. The Soviets were certainly nipping at our heels, but via their losses incurred on the Eastern Front and the already beginning horrible side effects of Stalinism, the prominence of the US stood relatively untarnished as we took to the head of making sure the world never fell into such widespread conflict again. A crucial part of the US cultural understanding of its own place relative to the USSR dealt with simply knowing deep down that we were better than them (see McCarthyism, the Space Race, the CIA's anti-communist directive). I guess my point is that I'm not sure "pride" is the best way to approach the current problem in US political dialogue, at least not in total.

On an aside, I might urge you to second guess judgements of a posters position or introspection given select posting evidence. Some people are continuously very verbose, while others (like myself), enjoy being quippy until something compelling comes along. If someone says something that seems ill-conceived or hasty in judgement, ask them about it! Nothing could be more prideful than simply assuming when some good old dialectic engagement could reveal far more. It is in this sense I can see a resounding support of humility make the most sense; the more something pisses you off, the more you ought to try and understand and question it.

Take whatever you want from that post all it really says is I live too fucking close to Ohio.
Moderator
farvacola
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States18832 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-11-05 04:31:29
November 05 2012 04:28 GMT
#23763
On November 05 2012 13:09 p4NDemik wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 05 2012 11:29 farvacola wrote:
On November 05 2012 11:02 p4NDemik wrote:
Seriously, on both sides modern politics in the U.S. suffers so much from a lack of humility and an overabundance of selfish, unobstructed, and unabashed pride. So many of us who are interested in politics put ourselves in a fucking bubble, watch MSNBC, CNN, or Fox News [whichever aligns closest with their initial beliefs]. We let pundits pump hot air into us, distending our actual positions, and constantly reinforcing them so that we resist at all costs accepting we could be wrong. We have elected a number of politicians who think this way.

So much of this thread is garbage. So many of us are talking over, around, and under each other's heads. If a friend poses a question concerning your personal well being do we ignore their question and immediately attack our friend? I'd hope most of the people in here, in their personal lives, actually have experiences that forced some kind of self-introspection. Maybe because TL tends to have a younger base of users many of us haven't suffered a fall due to our own pride. If you haven't it's coming. When there is a serious problem real progress cannot be made until you start questioning yourself. You can question other people your entire life and you'll rarely learn anything because you ignore their input.

I fucking love old people. Why do we idolize our grandparents, for some of you your great grandparents, and call them the "best generation?" It isn't because they won a war. It isn't because grandpa killed krauts and deposed Hilter, one of the worst dictators to grace this earth. I used to think this in grade school and high school. It's because after they went through all the horrific situations that encompassed that war, they came home and rebuilt most of the civilized world, and achieved great things. I truly believe the humility forced upon them during that time is what galvanized the whole world, and specifically this country to forge ahead.

Even those that grew up during the Cold War grew up knowing the humbling fact that if things went wrong the world as we know it could be destroyed in a matter of minutes. What keeps us humble now? I suppose 9/11 humbled us in a way, but really I think that just scared us. Americans by and large still are coddled from every angle by the media, their politicians, and while we're children, our family for the most part.

I'm sorry for proselytizing about the grand problems concerning politics. It's just that we're so far removed from that now (at least in politics) wonder what it will take to get that back.

Fuck pride. It's the ruin of all of us and this thread seethes with it every time I open it. I don't claim to be above it, it pervades everything when it comes these matters and I've said stuff in this thread on impulse that was just not smart.

TL:DR - Politics and this thread by extension are rife with pride and lacking in humility. We're in for a huge fucking wake up call if we continue.

While I agree with the idea that we ought to always try harder to work towards a more effective and level-headed political dialogue, I'm not sure I agree with how you go about justifying it. You speak of past events like the Cold War and World War 2 as though they generally fed into a collectively more humble/less prideful population, but I'm not sure this is the case. I mean, by virtue of the Civil Rights movement alone, huge numbers of people previously divorced from a collective place of societal equality first found themselves able to celebrate their pride in public and do so loudly. We may very well be suffering the side effects of having suppressed minority cultural prominence to this day, but what if this is simply a long term societal cost associated with the subjugation of millions, something we simply cannot avoid as an equilibrium is approached? We can't really know, but I'm just spitballing as to why "pride" may be the wrong frame of indictment.

I'm not sure WW2 taught the US humility. Sure, those involved in the war (which was pretty much everybody to some extent) came into contact with the very sobering realities of war and destruction on a grand scale. But coming out of the conflict, internationally we were at the head of the pack. The Soviets were certainly nipping at our heels, but via their losses incurred on the Eastern Front and the already beginning horrible side effects of Stalinism, the prominence of the US stood relatively untarnished as we took to the head of making sure the world never fell into such widespread conflict again. A crucial part of the US cultural understanding of its own place relative to the USSR dealt with simply knowing deep down that we were better than them (see McCarthyism, the Space Race, the CIA's anti-communist directive). I guess my point is that I'm not sure "pride" is the best way to approach the current problem in US political dialogue, at least not in total.

On an aside, I might urge you to second guess judgements of a posters position or introspection given select posting evidence. Some people are continuously very verbose, while others (like myself), enjoy being quippy until something compelling comes along. If someone says something that seems ill-conceived or hasty in judgement, ask them about it! Nothing could be more prideful than simply assuming when some good old dialectic engagement could reveal far more. It is in this sense I can see a resounding support of humility make the most sense; the more something pisses you off, the more you ought to try and understand and question it.

Take whatever you want from that post all it really says is I live too fucking close to Ohio.

I grew up and went to college in Ohio, so I feel your pain
"when the Dead Kennedys found out they had skinhead fans, they literally wrote a song titled 'Nazi Punks Fuck Off'"
Defacer
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Canada5052 Posts
November 05 2012 04:43 GMT
#23764
What's happening in Florida is a disgrace. It's the kind of thing you expect to hear about happening in Russia or Iran.

p4NDemik
Profile Blog Joined January 2008
United States13896 Posts
November 05 2012 04:55 GMT
#23765
On November 05 2012 13:28 farvacola wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 05 2012 13:09 p4NDemik wrote:
On November 05 2012 11:29 farvacola wrote:
On November 05 2012 11:02 p4NDemik wrote:
Seriously, on both sides modern politics in the U.S. suffers so much from a lack of humility and an overabundance of selfish, unobstructed, and unabashed pride. So many of us who are interested in politics put ourselves in a fucking bubble, watch MSNBC, CNN, or Fox News [whichever aligns closest with their initial beliefs]. We let pundits pump hot air into us, distending our actual positions, and constantly reinforcing them so that we resist at all costs accepting we could be wrong. We have elected a number of politicians who think this way.

So much of this thread is garbage. So many of us are talking over, around, and under each other's heads. If a friend poses a question concerning your personal well being do we ignore their question and immediately attack our friend? I'd hope most of the people in here, in their personal lives, actually have experiences that forced some kind of self-introspection. Maybe because TL tends to have a younger base of users many of us haven't suffered a fall due to our own pride. If you haven't it's coming. When there is a serious problem real progress cannot be made until you start questioning yourself. You can question other people your entire life and you'll rarely learn anything because you ignore their input.

I fucking love old people. Why do we idolize our grandparents, for some of you your great grandparents, and call them the "best generation?" It isn't because they won a war. It isn't because grandpa killed krauts and deposed Hilter, one of the worst dictators to grace this earth. I used to think this in grade school and high school. It's because after they went through all the horrific situations that encompassed that war, they came home and rebuilt most of the civilized world, and achieved great things. I truly believe the humility forced upon them during that time is what galvanized the whole world, and specifically this country to forge ahead.

Even those that grew up during the Cold War grew up knowing the humbling fact that if things went wrong the world as we know it could be destroyed in a matter of minutes. What keeps us humble now? I suppose 9/11 humbled us in a way, but really I think that just scared us. Americans by and large still are coddled from every angle by the media, their politicians, and while we're children, our family for the most part.

I'm sorry for proselytizing about the grand problems concerning politics. It's just that we're so far removed from that now (at least in politics) wonder what it will take to get that back.

Fuck pride. It's the ruin of all of us and this thread seethes with it every time I open it. I don't claim to be above it, it pervades everything when it comes these matters and I've said stuff in this thread on impulse that was just not smart.

TL:DR - Politics and this thread by extension are rife with pride and lacking in humility. We're in for a huge fucking wake up call if we continue.

While I agree with the idea that we ought to always try harder to work towards a more effective and level-headed political dialogue, I'm not sure I agree with how you go about justifying it. You speak of past events like the Cold War and World War 2 as though they generally fed into a collectively more humble/less prideful population, but I'm not sure this is the case. I mean, by virtue of the Civil Rights movement alone, huge numbers of people previously divorced from a collective place of societal equality first found themselves able to celebrate their pride in public and do so loudly. We may very well be suffering the side effects of having suppressed minority cultural prominence to this day, but what if this is simply a long term societal cost associated with the subjugation of millions, something we simply cannot avoid as an equilibrium is approached? We can't really know, but I'm just spitballing as to why "pride" may be the wrong frame of indictment.

I'm not sure WW2 taught the US humility. Sure, those involved in the war (which was pretty much everybody to some extent) came into contact with the very sobering realities of war and destruction on a grand scale. But coming out of the conflict, internationally we were at the head of the pack. The Soviets were certainly nipping at our heels, but via their losses incurred on the Eastern Front and the already beginning horrible side effects of Stalinism, the prominence of the US stood relatively untarnished as we took to the head of making sure the world never fell into such widespread conflict again. A crucial part of the US cultural understanding of its own place relative to the USSR dealt with simply knowing deep down that we were better than them (see McCarthyism, the Space Race, the CIA's anti-communist directive). I guess my point is that I'm not sure "pride" is the best way to approach the current problem in US political dialogue, at least not in total.

On an aside, I might urge you to second guess judgements of a posters position or introspection given select posting evidence. Some people are continuously very verbose, while others (like myself), enjoy being quippy until something compelling comes along. If someone says something that seems ill-conceived or hasty in judgement, ask them about it! Nothing could be more prideful than simply assuming when some good old dialectic engagement could reveal far more. It is in this sense I can see a resounding support of humility make the most sense; the more something pisses you off, the more you ought to try and understand and question it.

Take whatever you want from that post all it really says is I live too fucking close to Ohio.

I grew up and went to college in Ohio, so I feel your pain

Yeah, I live 15 minutes outside of Cincinnati, in Kentucky. My internet provider, my television provider, local television channels, are all Cincinnati-based. Just by virtue of proximity this area is enraptured just as much even though Kentucky has been a sure thing since day 1. After two months of reading, educating myself, posting my thoughts, trying to have conversations with family about politics that are actually productive, all whilst having the constant drone of news channels and talk radio + commercials I'm just wiped. Hell, the one uncle I have that doesn't live around Cincinnati still lives in Florida and is the biggest political nut of us all. There is no escape.

I think in 2016 I'm going to take up following football. I've never cared about it but after the baseball season is over and before college basketball is started it will make escaping this bullshit all the easier. On second thought maybe I'll try hockey if they ever sort out their own labor issues. It seems to keep Canadians pretty chill.
Moderator
SayGen
Profile Joined May 2010
United States1209 Posts
November 05 2012 04:58 GMT
#23766
we need a little humor in this thread, too much angry agro--perhaps this will help:



PS: Keep in mind, voting for anyone other than Ron Paul is a vote for more of the same
We Live to Die
SayGen
Profile Joined May 2010
United States1209 Posts
November 05 2012 05:00 GMT
#23767
Also I found this rare possibility intresting:

We Live to Die
farvacola
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States18832 Posts
November 05 2012 05:03 GMT
#23768
On November 05 2012 13:55 p4NDemik wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 05 2012 13:28 farvacola wrote:
On November 05 2012 13:09 p4NDemik wrote:
On November 05 2012 11:29 farvacola wrote:
On November 05 2012 11:02 p4NDemik wrote:
Seriously, on both sides modern politics in the U.S. suffers so much from a lack of humility and an overabundance of selfish, unobstructed, and unabashed pride. So many of us who are interested in politics put ourselves in a fucking bubble, watch MSNBC, CNN, or Fox News [whichever aligns closest with their initial beliefs]. We let pundits pump hot air into us, distending our actual positions, and constantly reinforcing them so that we resist at all costs accepting we could be wrong. We have elected a number of politicians who think this way.

So much of this thread is garbage. So many of us are talking over, around, and under each other's heads. If a friend poses a question concerning your personal well being do we ignore their question and immediately attack our friend? I'd hope most of the people in here, in their personal lives, actually have experiences that forced some kind of self-introspection. Maybe because TL tends to have a younger base of users many of us haven't suffered a fall due to our own pride. If you haven't it's coming. When there is a serious problem real progress cannot be made until you start questioning yourself. You can question other people your entire life and you'll rarely learn anything because you ignore their input.

I fucking love old people. Why do we idolize our grandparents, for some of you your great grandparents, and call them the "best generation?" It isn't because they won a war. It isn't because grandpa killed krauts and deposed Hilter, one of the worst dictators to grace this earth. I used to think this in grade school and high school. It's because after they went through all the horrific situations that encompassed that war, they came home and rebuilt most of the civilized world, and achieved great things. I truly believe the humility forced upon them during that time is what galvanized the whole world, and specifically this country to forge ahead.

Even those that grew up during the Cold War grew up knowing the humbling fact that if things went wrong the world as we know it could be destroyed in a matter of minutes. What keeps us humble now? I suppose 9/11 humbled us in a way, but really I think that just scared us. Americans by and large still are coddled from every angle by the media, their politicians, and while we're children, our family for the most part.

I'm sorry for proselytizing about the grand problems concerning politics. It's just that we're so far removed from that now (at least in politics) wonder what it will take to get that back.

Fuck pride. It's the ruin of all of us and this thread seethes with it every time I open it. I don't claim to be above it, it pervades everything when it comes these matters and I've said stuff in this thread on impulse that was just not smart.

TL:DR - Politics and this thread by extension are rife with pride and lacking in humility. We're in for a huge fucking wake up call if we continue.

While I agree with the idea that we ought to always try harder to work towards a more effective and level-headed political dialogue, I'm not sure I agree with how you go about justifying it. You speak of past events like the Cold War and World War 2 as though they generally fed into a collectively more humble/less prideful population, but I'm not sure this is the case. I mean, by virtue of the Civil Rights movement alone, huge numbers of people previously divorced from a collective place of societal equality first found themselves able to celebrate their pride in public and do so loudly. We may very well be suffering the side effects of having suppressed minority cultural prominence to this day, but what if this is simply a long term societal cost associated with the subjugation of millions, something we simply cannot avoid as an equilibrium is approached? We can't really know, but I'm just spitballing as to why "pride" may be the wrong frame of indictment.

I'm not sure WW2 taught the US humility. Sure, those involved in the war (which was pretty much everybody to some extent) came into contact with the very sobering realities of war and destruction on a grand scale. But coming out of the conflict, internationally we were at the head of the pack. The Soviets were certainly nipping at our heels, but via their losses incurred on the Eastern Front and the already beginning horrible side effects of Stalinism, the prominence of the US stood relatively untarnished as we took to the head of making sure the world never fell into such widespread conflict again. A crucial part of the US cultural understanding of its own place relative to the USSR dealt with simply knowing deep down that we were better than them (see McCarthyism, the Space Race, the CIA's anti-communist directive). I guess my point is that I'm not sure "pride" is the best way to approach the current problem in US political dialogue, at least not in total.

On an aside, I might urge you to second guess judgements of a posters position or introspection given select posting evidence. Some people are continuously very verbose, while others (like myself), enjoy being quippy until something compelling comes along. If someone says something that seems ill-conceived or hasty in judgement, ask them about it! Nothing could be more prideful than simply assuming when some good old dialectic engagement could reveal far more. It is in this sense I can see a resounding support of humility make the most sense; the more something pisses you off, the more you ought to try and understand and question it.

Take whatever you want from that post all it really says is I live too fucking close to Ohio.

I grew up and went to college in Ohio, so I feel your pain

Yeah, I live 15 minutes outside of Cincinnati, in Kentucky. My internet provider, my television provider, local television channels, are all Cincinnati-based. Just by virtue of proximity this area is enraptured just as much even though Kentucky has been a sure thing since day 1. After two months of reading, educating myself, posting my thoughts, trying to have conversations with family about politics that are actually productive, all whilst having the constant drone of news channels and talk radio + commercials I'm just wiped. Hell, the one uncle I have that doesn't live around Cincinnati still lives in Florida and is the biggest political nut of us all. There is no escape.

I think in 2016 I'm going to take up following football. I've never cared about it but after the baseball season is over and before college basketball is started it will make escaping this bullshit all the easier. On second thought maybe I'll try hockey if they ever sort out their own labor issues. It seems to keep Canadians pretty chill.

Yeah so you must be near Covington or thereabouts? I've been there for a few concerts. And I can say with almost complete certainty that my love for football is purely a regional adaptation, as neither of my parents are from "sporting" places or backgrounds and I more or less picked it up myself in high school. A Midwest cultural survival mechanism if you will
"when the Dead Kennedys found out they had skinhead fans, they literally wrote a song titled 'Nazi Punks Fuck Off'"
ZeaL.
Profile Blog Joined April 2009
United States5955 Posts
November 05 2012 05:08 GMT
#23769
On November 05 2012 13:58 SayGen wrote:
we need a little humor in this thread, too much angry agro--perhaps this will help:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=72YG2DhWHmE&list=UUYC4ijpFZY_CtdElWFyy-Gg#!

PS: Keep in mind, voting for anyone other than Ron Paul is a vote for more of the same


Isn't a vote for RP more of the same since he will never ever win ?
Doraemon
Profile Blog Joined January 2010
Australia14949 Posts
November 05 2012 05:13 GMT
#23770
On November 05 2012 13:43 Defacer wrote:
What's happening in Florida is a disgrace. It's the kind of thing you expect to hear about happening in Russia or Iran.



what's happening?
Do yourself a favour and just STFU
oneofthem
Profile Blog Joined November 2005
Cayman Islands24199 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-11-05 05:22:27
November 05 2012 05:21 GMT
#23771
jill stein is much better of a waste vote. at least you are being culturally superior, and jill is cute.
We have fed the heart on fantasies, the heart's grown brutal from the fare, more substance in our enmities than in our love
Defacer
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Canada5052 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-11-05 05:31:32
November 05 2012 05:23 GMT
#23772
On November 05 2012 14:13 Doraemon wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 05 2012 13:43 Defacer wrote:
What's happening in Florida is a disgrace. It's the kind of thing you expect to hear about happening in Russia or Iran.



what's happening?


From Huffington Post

+ Show Spoiler +

WASHINGTON -- Once again, Florida and its problems at the polls are at the center of an election.

Early voting is supposed to make it easier for people to carry out their constitutional right. Tuesdays are notoriously inconvenient to take off work, so many states have given voters the option of turning out on weekends or other weekdays in the run-up to Election Day.

But in Florida this year, it has been a nightmare for voters, who have faced record wait times, long lines in the sun and a Republican governor, Rick Scott, who has refused to budge and extend early voting hours.

"People are getting out to vote. That's what's very good," said Scott.

People are getting out to vote -- but many of them are having to wait in line for three or four hours to do so. One contributor to DailyKos claimed it took 9 hours to vote. In Miami-Dade on Saturday, people who had gotten in line by 7:00 p.m. were allowed to vote; the last person wasn't checked in until 1 a.m., meaning it took some individuals six hours to cast a ballot.

"We're looking at an election meltdown that is eerily similar to 2000, minus the hanging chads," said Dan Smith, a political science professor at the University of Florida.

Miami-Dade attempted to deal with the problem on Sunday by allowing voters to cast absentee ballots in person between 1:00 and 5:00 p.m. However, after just two hours, the Miami-Dade elections department shut down the location after too many people showed up. People outside the locked doors were reportedly screaming, "We want to vote!"

"They didn't have the infrastructure," filmmaker Lucas Leyva, who was among those turned away, told The Huffington Post's Janie Campbell. "We read the press release and everything that went out this morning, promising we'd be able to get absentee ballots and vote. We got here and there was a line of hundreds of people all being told the same thing, that that wasn't true anymore. You could drop off [a ballot], but they could not issue one."

And if getting turned away from the polls weren't enough of an indignity, some of those 180 people ended up getting their cars towed from the parking lot across the street, according to a Miami Herald reporter.

On Twitter, former Republican governor Charlie Crist -- who is now an independent -- responded to news of the office's closing, writing on Twitter, "Let the people vote!"

“We had the best of intentions to provide this service today,” said department spokeswoman Christina White. “We just can’t accommodate it to the degree that we would like to.”

About 30 minutes later, a Miami Herald reporter tweeted that the Miami-Dade location was reopening its doors.

Palm Beach, Pinellas, Orange, Leon and Hillsborough Counties also opened up in-person absentee voting on Sunday.

President Barack Obama's campaign and some of its supporters were attempting to keep people's spirits up -- and discourage them from abandoning the lines -- by bringing in food, water and even local musicians and DJs as entertainment.

North Miami Mayor Andre Pierre brought 400 slices of pizza to voters in line at 10:30 p.m. on Saturday night at the city's public library, according to an Obama official.

While many Democrats viewed it as a victory when a few offices opened absentee balloting on Sunday, the process is not the same as early voting -- and could result in more individuals not having their votes counted.

"Absentee ballots have a much higher rejection rate for minorities and young people, if you look at the Aug. 14 primary," said Smith.

A major reason there are so many problems at the polls is that last year, Florida's GOP-controlled legislature shortened the number of early voting days from 14 to eight, meaning all early voters are trying to cast their ballots in a shorter window. Previously, Floridians were allowed to vote on the Sunday before Election Day -- a day that typically had high traffic.

But losing that final Sunday isn't the only problem. Smith said that he and Dartmouth professor Michael Herron found that in 2008, voters 65 or older were much more likely to cast ballots in the first five days of early voting than members of other age groups, alleviating some of the pressure at the polls in the remaining days. Those extra days, however, are gone this year, leading to a compression that the system has been unable to handle.

Scott has refused to extend early voting hours, essentially arguing that there is no problem, despite calls from Democrats, independent groups and even a Republican elections supervisor. He is arguing that he can extend early voting hours only when there is a true emergency -- like a natural disaster -- that warrants it.

"I'm focused on making sure that we have fair, honest elections," said Scott. "One thing to know, these early voting days and on Election Day, if you're there by the time the polls close, you get to vote."

Scott has some of the lowest approval ratings of any governor in the nation. In recent Quinnipiac poll, just 39 percent of Floridians said they approved of the job he is doing. Scott, unlike many other GOP governors, has not hit the campaign trail much on behalf of Mitt Romney.

As Florida Democrats have pointed out, the state's previous two Republican governors -- Jeb Bush and Crist -- both extended the hours. A spokesman for Bush didn't return a request for comment.

A judge extended the hours in Orange County after the state Democratic Party sued for more time. The location was closed for several hours on Saturday when everyone was evacuated due to a suspicious package.

Democrats are traditionally more likely to vote early, which is why many in the party have ascribed political motives to Scott's restriction of the process. According to a report in the Miami Herald on Saturday, Democrats were leading Republicans "by about 187,000 early in-person ballots cast" as of that morning.

On Election Day, there will be fewer polling precincts this year than in 2008 -- due to redistricting and budget constraints -- meaning traffic on Tuesday could also be a problem.

Florida is expected to be tight in this election. According to HuffPost Pollster's average of polls in the race, Romney is now leading Obama in the state by less than one percentage point.



From Miami Herald.

+ Show Spoiler +

What began Sunday morning as an attempt by the Miami-Dade elections department to let more people early vote devolved into chaos and confusion only days before the nation decides its next president.

Call it the debacle in Doral.

Elections officials, overwhelmed with voters, locked the doors to their Doral headquarters and temporarily shut down the operation, angering nearly 200 voters standing in line outside — only to resume the proceedings an hour later.

On the surface, officials blamed technical equipment and a lack of staff for the shutdown. But behind the scenes, there was another issue: Miami-Dade Mayor Carlos Gimenez.

The Republican had never signed off on the additional in-person absentee voting hours in the first place.

“That was counter to what I said on Friday, which was we were not going to change the game mid-stream,” he said. “I said, ‘No, there’s no way we did this.’”

But Gimenez, who is in a nonpartisan post, quickly realized it was better to let the voting go on, and the voting resumed.

The mayor said he found out early Sunday afternoon — from his daughter-in-law — about the extra voting hours.

The move had been approved by Deputy Mayor Alina Hudak at the request of Elections Supervisor Penelope Townsley. The plan was simple: Allow voters to request, fill out and return absentee ballots in person for four hours Sunday afternoon.

Early voting the Sunday before Election Day used to be allowed. But it was eliminated by the GOP-controlled state Legislature and Republican Gov. Rick Scott last year after Barack Obama used early voting to help him win Florida in 2008 — and therefore the presidency.

Gimenez said his initial reaction was to stop the last-minute Sunday voting.

But by then, around 180 people stood in line outside the elections office at 2700 NW 87th Ave. They shouted “Let us vote!” and banged on the locked glass doors.

“This is America, not a third-world country,” said Myrna Peralta, who waited in line with her 4-year-old grandson for nearly two hours before the doors closed. “They should have been prepared.”

“My beautiful Sunshine State,” she lamented. “They’re not letting people vote.”

Minutes earlier, a department spokeswoman had said the office did not have enough resources — only one ballot printer, five voting booths and two staffers — to handle the throng of voters and would begin turning new voters away.

“We had the best of intentions to provide this service today,” spokeswoman Christina White had said. “We just can’t accommodate it to the degree that we would like to.”

Calvin Sweeting, a 59-year-old from Opa-locka, was told he would be the last person to vote.

“They said I was the lucky one,” he said, shrugging. “It didn’t seem fair to me.”

Or to Jean Marcellus, 52, who stood behind him.

“This is ridiculous,” Marcellus shouted, holding up the ticket he was given to secure his place in the queue. “I’m the next one!”

Nearly all the voters stayed in line until a campaign worker reported her car had been towed from a private parking lot across the street. Scores of people ducked out of the line to check on their own cars. A second car had been towed.

Behind closed doors were back-and-forth phone calls among the department, the county attorney’s office and the mayor, who eventually decided to let the people outside the elections department vote. Democrats also unleashed a torrent of phone calls to reporters and the county.

“I’m upset at this change, but at the end, when you have 200, 300 voters out there ready to go, you really can’t disenfranchise them,” Gimenez said. Of the whole situation, he added: “I’m certainly embarrassed.”

The elections office reopened its doors at 3 p.m., after being closed for about an hour, apologizing and announcing that it had added a ballot-printing machine and more poll workers and would remain open until all voters in line at 5 p.m. had cast their in-person absentee ballots.

The crowd cheered. Around 400 people stood in line at 5 p.m. Campaign workers passed out bottled water and granola bars.

Despite lines up to seven hours long at times during eight days of early voting, Gimenez had decided late last week not to ask Gov. Scott to extend early-voting hours in Miami-Dade. The last early-voting polls officially closed at 7 p.m. Saturday, but they remained open until the last voter in line checked in with a poll worker — about 1 a.m. Sunday.

Gimenez defended his decision Sunday to refrain from asking the governor for more early-voting hours.

“We all knew what the rules were. When you start doing things like that, you’re opening to criticism of favoring one side or the other,” he said. “All of us knew it was going to be eight days of early voting. It was going to end on Saturday. There is going to be hundred of polling places [open] on Tuesday.”

The county did add poll workers, machines and voting booths to early-voting sites to alleviate some wait times.

On Sunday, Gimenez said he was angrier at Hudak, his deputy, than at Townsley, the elections supervisor.

“I’m going to have to deal with this internally,” he said. “I’m not saying somebody’s going to be lose their job, but somebody made a poor error in judgment that’s not really helping the community.”

Hudak told Miami Herald news partner WFOR-CBS 4 that she approved the decision, which at the time she did not see as a major policy shift.

“I apologized to the mayor,” she said. “I should have told him. I made a bad call.”

Gimenez said the elections department wanted to offer more hours of in-person absentee voting in part because some voters had yet to receive ballots the county had mailed them due to a post-office glitch.

Opening the elections office from 1 p.m. to 5 p.m. was a work-around to a provision in the state law that eliminated early voting the Sunday before Election Day. The Florida Democratic Party filed a lawsuit in the wee hours of Sunday morning seeking to somehow extend voting in Miami-Dade, Broward and Palm Beach counties before Tuesday.

The law allows elections supervisors to accept in-person absentee ballots through 7 p.m. Tuesday — including Sunday, at the elections supervisor’s discretion. As of Friday, Miami-Dade and Broward had planned to open Sunday only for voters to drop off absentee ballots.

Miami-Dade switched gears to also let voters ask for a ballot and fill it out on the spot. Palm Beach and two Tampa Bay-area counties, Hillsborough and Pinellas, did the same.

Broward did not initially follow suit but then a spokeswoman said it would try to accommodate voters — after assisting people who had made appointments to cast their ballots Sunday.

But there were no lines Sunday afternoon at the Lauderhill satellite office located at 1501 NW 40th Ave. Poll workers said they had assisted voters who had appointments as well as voters who had dropped by without an appointment to fill out a ballot.

Voters across the state can request and cast absentee ballots in person Monday. They can also drop them off at elections supervisor’s offices — but not at their precincts — on Election Day.

The Democrats’ lawsuit, filed in Miami federal court, argued that an emergency judge’s order was necessary to “extend voting opportunities” before Tuesday in Miami-Dade, Broward and Palm Beach, including allowing voters to cast absentee ballots in person.

It’s unclear exactly what more a court could have done, two days before Election Day. The lawsuit did not ask U.S. District Judge Patricia Seitz to reopen all early-voting sites.

“The extraordinarily long lines deterred or prevented voters from waiting to vote. Some voters left the polling sites upon learning of the expected wait, and others refused to line up altogether,” the lawsuit said. “These long lines and extreme delays unduly and unjustifiably burdened the right to vote.”

An attorney for the Miami-Dade elections supervisor filed a motion Sunday morning saying the lawsuit was moot because the county would allow for in-person absentee voting Sunday afternoon.

Democrats and Democratic-leaning groups had asked the governor late last week to extend early-voting hours by executive authority. Scott declined Thursday night.

On Friday, Monroe County Elections Supervisor Harry Sawyer Jr., a Republican, sent the governor a letter asking for more hours. Florida Secretary of State Ken Detzner responded that the early-voting reports he was receiving from elections supervisors across the state were positive.

Scott signed a law last year reducing the number of early-voting days to eight from 14 and eliminating voting on the Sunday before Election Day, which Democrats used to turn out supporters in 2008. The new law guarantees one Sunday of early voting.

The number of maximum hours offered stayed the same on the books, but four years ago, then-Gov. Charlie Crist effectively extended early voting by another 24 hours.

Separately, the party sued in Orlando circuit court asking to extend early-voting hours in Orange County after a bomb scare temporarily closed a polling place. On Sunday morning, a judge ruled that the Winter Park early-voting site should open for four hours.

Excluding that site and the counties that allowed in-person absentee voting, more than 4.4 million Floridians had voted early or absentee by Sunday morning. More than 2.4 million people had voted early — most of them Democrats. More than 2 million had voted absentee — most of them Republicans.

In 2008, more people voted early, and fewer voted absentee.

Read more here: http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/11/04/v-fullstory/3081614/florida-democratic-party-files.html#storylink=cpy


In a nutshell, Republican Governor Rick Scott lowered the amount of days for early voting from 14 days to 8, as well as shortened the hours. Why is this significant?

1) Most minorities or low income people can't afford to take time off work to vote.
2) Shortening the period means losing a Sunday for voting. It Florida, it has become somewhat of a ritual for Black Churches to bus their congregation to the polling booths, because most lower income minorities don't have convenient access to transportation.
3) While you can mail in your vote, there is a much higher percentage that they are disqualified or discounted
4) The shorter period has lead to swells of people trying to vote, but the polling stations are understaffed and turning people away.

It's straight-up voter suppression.
Saryph
Profile Joined April 2010
United States1955 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-11-05 05:47:03
November 05 2012 05:46 GMT
#23773
Defacer, in my post at the top of the page I was talking about something similar. People who requested an absentee ballot more than two months ago have not received them yet in Florida.

It is unacceptable.
Souma
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
2nd Worst City in CA8938 Posts
November 05 2012 05:51 GMT
#23774
Rick Scott has always been a giant tool. What's even worse is how the stuff he pulls is allowed in the first place.
Writer
ticklishmusic
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
United States15977 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-11-05 06:03:06
November 05 2012 05:59 GMT
#23775
http://www.dispatch.com/content/sections/news/government-politics/elections/results.jsp

Franklin County
President
UPDATED MON NOV 05 00:58:02 EST 2012 - 12% OF POLLS REPORTING
21%
Write-In
7,958 votes
12%
Stewart Alexander
4,596 votes
12%
Jill Stein
4,569 votes
11%
Barack Obama
4,445 votes
11%
Mitt Romney
4,430 votes
11%
Richard Duncan
4,392 votes
11%
Gary Johnson
4,362 votes
11%
Virgil Goode
4,356 votes


I am so fucking confused right now.

EDIT: nvm, apparently its some kind of election software test.
(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻
Souma
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
2nd Worst City in CA8938 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-11-05 06:06:27
November 05 2012 06:01 GMT
#23776
SOCIALIST PARTY! Stewart Alexander whoop.

Edit: I hate you ticklish.
Writer
p4NDemik
Profile Blog Joined January 2008
United States13896 Posts
November 05 2012 06:05 GMT
#23777
Damn man. Socialist party is where its at in Columbus apparently.
Moderator
Defacer
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Canada5052 Posts
November 05 2012 06:06 GMT
#23778
On November 05 2012 14:46 Saryph wrote:
Defacer, in my post at the top of the page I was talking about something similar. People who requested an absentee ballot more than two months ago have not received them yet in Florida.

It is unacceptable.


It's one thing to change voting requirements.

It's another thing to actively decrease the opportunity to vote.

It's borderline criminal to knowingly shorten the period and opportunity with which to vote but not provide the staffing and resources to compensate for increased demand. It's the reason why the Voter ID laws were deemed unfair and unenforceable in other states -- while there is nothing wrong with the law itself, the states themselves couldn't prove they had the capacity or the infrastructure to actually issue ID cards to every eligible voter four months before the election.

People should be outraged about Rick Scott and his blatant attempt to sabotage the voting system.
p4NDemik
Profile Blog Joined January 2008
United States13896 Posts
November 05 2012 06:07 GMT
#23779
Also, TIL who the hell Richard Duncan is.
Moderator
Souma
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
2nd Worst City in CA8938 Posts
November 05 2012 06:13 GMT
#23780
On November 05 2012 15:06 Defacer wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 05 2012 14:46 Saryph wrote:
Defacer, in my post at the top of the page I was talking about something similar. People who requested an absentee ballot more than two months ago have not received them yet in Florida.

It is unacceptable.


It's one thing to change voting requirements.

It's another thing to actively decrease the opportunity to vote.

It's borderline criminal to knowingly shorten the period and opportunity with which to vote but not provide the staffing and resources to compensate for increased demand. It's the reason why the Voter ID laws were deemed unfair and unenforceable in other states -- while there is nothing wrong with the law itself, the states themselves couldn't prove they had the capacity or the infrastructure to actually issue ID cards to every eligible voter four months before the election.

People should be outraged about Rick Scott and his blatant attempt to sabotage the voting system.


The liberal media and other liberal entities are trying to exert pressure on him but it's not working. He's a stubborn one, that guy. I doubt he'll get re-elected so he might as well screw things up while he can.
Writer
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