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This is a sensitive and complex issue, please do not make comments without first reading the facts, which are cataloged in the OP.
If you make an uninformed post, or one that isn't relevant to the discussion, you will be moderated. If in doubt, don't post. |
On July 14 2013 12:07 Ansinjunger wrote:Show nested quote +On July 14 2013 12:05 Blennd wrote:On July 14 2013 12:02 dAPhREAk wrote:
fuck all of the people who convicted zimmerman without a trial or sufficient information (both in the media and the earlier thread) at the outset, and fuck all the people who are now blaming unfair trial practice and "injustice" because zimmerman was declared not guilty. make me sick how ignorant people are. I'm glad we were able to have such an unbiased unofficial moderator for this discussion. That's more or less what I was thinking. I appreciate xDaunt for not being on a high horse when posting in this thread. Show nested quote +On July 14 2013 12:07 Tewks44 wrote:On July 14 2013 12:05 Blennd wrote:On July 14 2013 12:02 dAPhREAk wrote:
fuck all of the people who convicted zimmerman without a trial or sufficient information (both in the media and the earlier thread) at the outset, and fuck all the people who are now blaming unfair trial practice and "injustice" because zimmerman was declared not guilty. make me sick how ignorant people are. I'm glad we were able to have such an unbiased unofficial moderator for this discussion. dAPhREAk was a fantastic unofficial moderator, constantly updated with relevant stories and put more dedication into this thread than most people put into their day jobs. His updating of the thread was indeed fantastic, and you could argue that the moderator note set him apart as kind of a moderator for this thread. However, I don't particularly feel the need to be guilt-tripped for initially thinking GZ was guilty back when the other thread was posted. I'd rather thank the informative people in this thread for helping me learn a lot, so this type of remark stings.
i have been holding my disgust in check for some of the people in this and the original thread for a long time trying to be objective. now that the case is over, i am not holding back. the ignorance of people continues to amaze me.
and before you get on your high horse, pre-trial, i thought zimmerman would be convicted of manslaughter. only after this shitty trial did i change my mind.
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On July 14 2013 12:14 ZapRoffo wrote:
Anyone want to convince me (someone who didn't really follow the details of the case) that there was no racial profiling and attempt to vigilante by Zimmerman, other than it just being a matter of belief with no evidence either way--at which point I will adamantly believe there was?
I need filled in and my queries keep being ignored.
Because there is no evidence that he was racial profiling. Reporting someone and them being black does not make it racial profiling. If that were the case you could call every instance of reporting a potential criminal of a different race as "racial profiling".
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On July 14 2013 12:13 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:Show nested quote +On July 14 2013 12:10 On_Slaught wrote:
Al Shaprton saying they ("Civil rights leaders") are going to press the federal government to pursue the case now. How could they do that/ What will the Feds do make something up?
Just for the record, double jeopardy does NOT prevent the Federal government from pursuing their own criminal charges against Zimmerman.
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On July 14 2013 12:14 ZapRoffo wrote:
Anyone want to convince me (someone who didn't really follow the details of the case) that there was no racial profiling and attempt to vigilante by Zimmerman, other than it just being a matter of belief with no evidence either way--at which point I will adamantly believe there was?
I need filled in and my queries keep being ignored.
FBI investigated and found no support for it being a racially motivated crime. what more do you want?
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On July 14 2013 12:14 ZapRoffo wrote:
Anyone want to convince me that there was no racial profiling and attempt to vigilante by Zimmerman for someone who didn't follow most of the case details, other than it just being a matter of belief with no evidence either way--at which point I will adamantly believe there was?
I need filled in and my queries keep being ignored.
Zimmerman participated in a bunch of charities before the incident which mostly helped African Americans, so it'd be pretty strange if he was racist against African Americans.
As for it being vigilantism, it doesn't really matter. Martin escalated to lethal force first, so Zimmerman still had the right to defend himself.
On July 14 2013 12:18 Kaitlin wrote:Show nested quote +On July 14 2013 12:13 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:On July 14 2013 12:10 On_Slaught wrote:
Al Shaprton saying they ("Civil rights leaders") are going to press the federal government to pursue the case now. How could they do that/ What will the Feds do make something up? Just for the record, double jeopardy does NOT prevent the Federal government from pursuing their own criminal charges against Zimmerman.
He can't be tried for the death of Martin though.
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On July 14 2013 12:14 ZapRoffo wrote:
Anyone want to convince me (someone who didn't really follow the details of the case) that there was no racial profiling and attempt to vigilante by Zimmerman, other than it just being a matter of belief with no evidence either way--at which point I will adamantly believe there was?
I need filled in and my queries keep being ignored.
Research for yourself, we don't have time to sit and convince you of something that took weeks for professional lawyers to convince a jury of.
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Zaproffo, on the 311 call he said "He wasn't sure, but the suspect looked black" can't racially profile if you don't know what "race" they are. He profiled Treyvon as a possible criminal, because of recent activity in his neighborhood. He didn't recognize him, and thought he was acting weird and suspicious so he called 311 to report him. As far as him being a vigilante, we don't know exactly what happened. There isn't any evidence to prove he acted in that way, so that's kind of all we can say.
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On July 14 2013 12:14 ZapRoffo wrote:
Anyone want to convince me (someone who didn't really follow the details of the case) that there was no racial profiling and attempt to vigilante by Zimmerman, other than it just being a matter of belief with no evidence either way--at which point I will adamantly believe there was?
I need filled in and my queries keep being ignored.
Why the hell would you want to take the advice of someone who doesn't know about the facts/details of the case? Isn't that the most important part of making an informed decision on something like that?
My mind is being blown again and again by this case and thread...
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Didn't follow the case at all but i'm very skeptical from the little I know that Zimmerman needed to shoot and kill a kid over a fight
User was warned for this post
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Soooo happy for GZ. That one twitter feed is just pitiful...
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On July 14 2013 12:14 ZapRoffo wrote:
Anyone want to convince me (someone who didn't really follow the details of the case) that there was no racial profiling and attempt to vigilante by Zimmerman, other than it just being a matter of belief with no evidence either way--at which point I will adamantly believe there was?
I need filled in and my queries keep being ignored.
Well, the problem is these questions aren't really relevant to the case. My opinion, I think it's likely that Zimmerman profiled Martin, and I think he definitely was acting as kind of a "wanna-be-cop" to use the prosecution's term. However the relevant question is whether or not Zimmerman felt as if he was in danger of severe bodily harm because this would justify the use of self defense.
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On July 14 2013 12:14 ZapRoffo wrote:
Anyone want to convince me (someone who didn't really follow the details of the case) that there was no racial profiling and attempt to vigilante by Zimmerman, other than it just being a matter of belief with no evidence either way--at which point I will adamantly believe there was?
I need filled in and my queries keep being ignored.
Off the wiki page:
"In early April, an anonymous letter to the NAACP, which was signed "A Concerned Zimmerman Family Member," said Zimmerman had been one of the few to take any action to protest the 2010 beating of Sherman Ware, a black homeless man, by the son of a Sanford police officer. Zimmerman reportedly distributed fliers in the black community trying to get others involved too, and helped organize a January 8, 2011, Sanford City Hall community forum to protest the incident.[304] Zimmerman's father confirmed his son's efforts on Ware's behalf.[305]
In May, the Miami Herald secured an audiotape of the January 8, 2011, Sanford City Hall community forum. On the audiotape, Zimmerman was heard criticizing the conduct of the Sanford Police Department in the Ware case. Zimmerman criticized former chief, Brian Tooley, and said Tooley had engaged in a "cover-up" and that he should lose his pension."
Edit: That being said, he probably profiled Martin due to the recent rash of burglaries in his neighborhood.
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On July 14 2013 12:14 ZapRoffo wrote:
Anyone want to convince me (someone who didn't really follow the details of the case) that there was no racial profiling and attempt to vigilante by Zimmerman, other than it just being a matter of belief with no evidence either way--at which point I will adamantly believe there was?
I need filled in and my queries keep being ignored.
Please forgive us for not taking the time to paraphrase the past 428 pages of this thread for your convenience. But for your question - No: no one wants to convince you if there was or was not racial profiling. To be honest, it's pretty irrelevant to the matter of if GZ was protecting himself or not..
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On July 14 2013 12:20 darthfoley wrote:
Didn't follow the case at all but i'm very skeptical from the little I know that Zimmerman needed to shoot and kill a kid over a fight
Didn't follow the case at all
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I missed the original thread(s?) completely, and only really paid a little attention to this one until the trial actually started, so i didn't really have any of the bias from the media etc from before hand.
Just reading through the thread during the trial, and watching the live trial (didn't realise they broadcast trials, was interesting to see :D) it seemed pretty obvious what the decision should be, there was just no where near enough evidence to convict.
And lol@twitter :/.
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On July 14 2013 12:20 darthfoley wrote:
Didn't follow the case at all but i'm very skeptical from the little I know that Zimmerman needed to shoot and kill a kid over a fight
He was 17, hardly a "kid".
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A black 17 year old should be able to walk home from the store without getting shot. Just don't attack someone who is carrying a gun and you'll be fine.
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On July 14 2013 12:18 Millitron wrote:Show nested quote +On July 14 2013 12:18 Kaitlin wrote:
Just for the record, double jeopardy does NOT prevent the Federal government from pursuing their own criminal charges against Zimmerman. He can't be tried for the death of Martin though.
If there is an applicable Federal statute relating to the death of Martin, they most certainly can. Double jeopardy does NOT prevent the Federal government from prosecuting a case tried by the State.
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On July 14 2013 12:20 darthfoley wrote:
Didn't follow the case at all but i'm very skeptical from the little I know that Zimmerman needed to shoot and kill a kid over a fight
You should probably get informed before stating your opinion then.
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On July 14 2013 12:17 kmillz wrote:Show nested quote +On July 14 2013 12:14 ZapRoffo wrote:
Anyone want to convince me (someone who didn't really follow the details of the case) that there was no racial profiling and attempt to vigilante by Zimmerman, other than it just being a matter of belief with no evidence either way--at which point I will adamantly believe there was?
I need filled in and my queries keep being ignored. Because there is no evidence that he was racial profiling. Reporting someone and them being black does not make it racial profiling. If that were the case you could call every instance of reporting a potential criminal of a different race as "racial profiling".
Like I said, no concrete evidence of it being so doesn't mean anything to me, I'm not a jury or a research task force. I can act on intuition, and I just want to see if there are any clear facts flying right in the face of my intuition that can be clearly delineated. Which there doesn't seem to be.
I'm just asking for personal reasons.
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