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This is a sensitive and complex issue, please do not make comments without first reading the facts, which are cataloged in the OP.
If you make an uninformed post, or one that isn't relevant to the discussion, you will be moderated. If in doubt, don't post. |
On July 12 2013 04:49 Klondikebar wrote:Show nested quote +On July 12 2013 04:46 BigFan wrote:On July 12 2013 04:44 L3gendary wrote:On July 12 2013 04:34 Thieving Magpie wrote:On July 12 2013 04:27 autoexec wrote:On July 12 2013 04:26 Thieving Magpie wrote:On July 12 2013 04:23 autoexec wrote:
I'm just starting to tune in. I haven't been following this case at all and all I know are the main points that were presented to the media at the time of occurrence. Could anyone please explain what evidence the prosecution even has at this point that could make him guilty? What they have is Rachael's testimony (showing he instigated), lack of blood on the sidewalk (suggesting his story is false), and his comment about "they always get away" (suggesting intent) None of them refute John Good's testimony. Could you explain John Good's testimony in a little more detail? Also, thanks. John Good said he saw a scuffle, guy in red at bottom, guy in black on top with the guy in black winning. He yelled for them to stop, the guy in black did not. He ran to call the police, a gunshot was heard. This means that even if it was Trayvon calling for help--John Good showed up (the help being called for) and that should have ended the fight. Since Trayvon did not stop his punches (Trayvon wore black), the shot is self defense. It wouldn't matter if Zimmerman instigated It wouldn't matter if Trayvon was yelling It wouldn't even matter if Zimmerman intended to shoot Trayvon An altercation happened, Trayvon started winning, John Good shows up telling them to stop. Whatever happened prior to that is null and void since it should have been over. Trayvon continues to punch Zimmerman, John runs for the phone, Zimmerman defends himself with the gun. Unless the prosecution proves John Good a liar; they have no case. Simply proving John Good inaccurate is not enough, since his testimony would still be enough for reasonable doubt. They have to show that he's a liar. So you're allowed to instigate a fight and then shoot the person if they get the better of you in florida? we don't know who instigated the fight in this case and if your life is in danger like Zimmerman said he believes, you can defend yourself. I still have trouble with this "instigation" thing. Zimmerman was safe, in a car, on the phone with police. He wasn't even on Martin's radar and other than "he looks suspicious" (an incredibly vague modifier) he had no reason to follow him. Like...no matter who won the fight or who actually escalated it to violence, surely Zimmerman is partly responsible for the confrontation. The fact that he was carrying a gun with him means he anticipated violence. But he went anyway? And unless Florida has really aggressive neighborhood watches, I thought that neighborhood watchmen didn't even confront criminals. They just looked out for them and then reported to police.
I feel the same way you do but the law doesn't look at it that way and thats all that really matters.
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TLADT24920 Posts
On July 12 2013 04:49 Klondikebar wrote:Show nested quote +On July 12 2013 04:46 BigFan wrote:On July 12 2013 04:44 L3gendary wrote:On July 12 2013 04:34 Thieving Magpie wrote:On July 12 2013 04:27 autoexec wrote:On July 12 2013 04:26 Thieving Magpie wrote:On July 12 2013 04:23 autoexec wrote:
I'm just starting to tune in. I haven't been following this case at all and all I know are the main points that were presented to the media at the time of occurrence. Could anyone please explain what evidence the prosecution even has at this point that could make him guilty? What they have is Rachael's testimony (showing he instigated), lack of blood on the sidewalk (suggesting his story is false), and his comment about "they always get away" (suggesting intent) None of them refute John Good's testimony. Could you explain John Good's testimony in a little more detail? Also, thanks. John Good said he saw a scuffle, guy in red at bottom, guy in black on top with the guy in black winning. He yelled for them to stop, the guy in black did not. He ran to call the police, a gunshot was heard. This means that even if it was Trayvon calling for help--John Good showed up (the help being called for) and that should have ended the fight. Since Trayvon did not stop his punches (Trayvon wore black), the shot is self defense. It wouldn't matter if Zimmerman instigated It wouldn't matter if Trayvon was yelling It wouldn't even matter if Zimmerman intended to shoot Trayvon An altercation happened, Trayvon started winning, John Good shows up telling them to stop. Whatever happened prior to that is null and void since it should have been over. Trayvon continues to punch Zimmerman, John runs for the phone, Zimmerman defends himself with the gun. Unless the prosecution proves John Good a liar; they have no case. Simply proving John Good inaccurate is not enough, since his testimony would still be enough for reasonable doubt. They have to show that he's a liar. So you're allowed to instigate a fight and then shoot the person if they get the better of you in florida? we don't know who instigated the fight in this case and if your life is in danger like Zimmerman said he believes, you can defend yourself. I still have trouble with this "instigation" thing. Zimmerman was safe, in a car, on the phone with police. He wasn't even on Martin's radar and other than "he looks suspicious" (an incredibly vague modifier) he had no reason to follow him. Like...no matter who won the fight or who actually escalated it to violence, surely Zimmerman is partly responsible for the confrontation. The fact that he was carrying a gun with him means he anticipated violence. But he went anyway? And unless Florida has really aggressive neighborhood watches, I thought that neighborhood watchmen didn't even confront criminals. They just looked out for them and then reported to police.
Well, according to Zimmerman, he went back to his car then Trayvon pushed him. His reasoning was that his neighbourhood was getting burgalized and my guess is he wanted just to see where he is so that he doesn't escape. Whether he went around after the call to look for him then stumbled onto him and the fight started or Trayvon came to him is unknown except for Zimmerman's account.
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On July 12 2013 04:55 dotHead wrote:Show nested quote +On July 12 2013 04:49 Klondikebar wrote:On July 12 2013 04:46 BigFan wrote:On July 12 2013 04:44 L3gendary wrote:On July 12 2013 04:34 Thieving Magpie wrote:On July 12 2013 04:27 autoexec wrote:On July 12 2013 04:26 Thieving Magpie wrote:On July 12 2013 04:23 autoexec wrote:
I'm just starting to tune in. I haven't been following this case at all and all I know are the main points that were presented to the media at the time of occurrence. Could anyone please explain what evidence the prosecution even has at this point that could make him guilty? What they have is Rachael's testimony (showing he instigated), lack of blood on the sidewalk (suggesting his story is false), and his comment about "they always get away" (suggesting intent) None of them refute John Good's testimony. Could you explain John Good's testimony in a little more detail? Also, thanks. John Good said he saw a scuffle, guy in red at bottom, guy in black on top with the guy in black winning. He yelled for them to stop, the guy in black did not. He ran to call the police, a gunshot was heard. This means that even if it was Trayvon calling for help--John Good showed up (the help being called for) and that should have ended the fight. Since Trayvon did not stop his punches (Trayvon wore black), the shot is self defense. It wouldn't matter if Zimmerman instigated It wouldn't matter if Trayvon was yelling It wouldn't even matter if Zimmerman intended to shoot Trayvon An altercation happened, Trayvon started winning, John Good shows up telling them to stop. Whatever happened prior to that is null and void since it should have been over. Trayvon continues to punch Zimmerman, John runs for the phone, Zimmerman defends himself with the gun. Unless the prosecution proves John Good a liar; they have no case. Simply proving John Good inaccurate is not enough, since his testimony would still be enough for reasonable doubt. They have to show that he's a liar. So you're allowed to instigate a fight and then shoot the person if they get the better of you in florida? we don't know who instigated the fight in this case and if your life is in danger like Zimmerman said he believes, you can defend yourself. And unless Florida has really aggressive neighborhood watches, I thought that neighborhood watchmen didn't even confront criminals. They just looked out for them and then reported to police. He did report it (Hence the calls to 311) and according to GZ he didn't confront him. Treyvon ran off, and jumped GZ from the bushes or something.
Which means Zimmerman was still walking around looking for him instead of returning to his car even though his job as a neighborhood watchman was complete.
I understand the law and I understand that it probably won't find Zimmerman guilty. But I just can't help but think he got arrogant and dug his own grave here...or at last passed out shovels.
Edit: Just read Bigfan's post above mine. I am still mad suspicious of Zimmerman but I'm neither on the jury nor am I privy to all the evidence and testimony so I'll leave it to the courts to decide.
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On July 12 2013 04:44 L3gendary wrote:Show nested quote +On July 12 2013 04:34 Thieving Magpie wrote:On July 12 2013 04:27 autoexec wrote:On July 12 2013 04:26 Thieving Magpie wrote:On July 12 2013 04:23 autoexec wrote:
I'm just starting to tune in. I haven't been following this case at all and all I know are the main points that were presented to the media at the time of occurrence. Could anyone please explain what evidence the prosecution even has at this point that could make him guilty? What they have is Rachael's testimony (showing he instigated), lack of blood on the sidewalk (suggesting his story is false), and his comment about "they always get away" (suggesting intent) None of them refute John Good's testimony. Could you explain John Good's testimony in a little more detail? Also, thanks. John Good said he saw a scuffle, guy in red at bottom, guy in black on top with the guy in black winning. He yelled for them to stop, the guy in black did not. He ran to call the police, a gunshot was heard. This means that even if it was Trayvon calling for help--John Good showed up (the help being called for) and that should have ended the fight. Since Trayvon did not stop his punches (Trayvon wore black), the shot is self defense. It wouldn't matter if Zimmerman instigated It wouldn't matter if Trayvon was yelling It wouldn't even matter if Zimmerman intended to shoot Trayvon An altercation happened, Trayvon started winning, John Good shows up telling them to stop. Whatever happened prior to that is null and void since it should have been over. Trayvon continues to punch Zimmerman, John runs for the phone, Zimmerman defends himself with the gun. Unless the prosecution proves John Good a liar; they have no case. Simply proving John Good inaccurate is not enough, since his testimony would still be enough for reasonable doubt. They have to show that he's a liar. So you're allowed to instigate a fight and then shoot the person if they get the better of you in florida?
Instigating a fight doesn't forfeit your right to life.
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On July 12 2013 04:55 ComaDose wrote:Show nested quote +On July 12 2013 04:49 Klondikebar wrote:On July 12 2013 04:46 BigFan wrote:On July 12 2013 04:44 L3gendary wrote:On July 12 2013 04:34 Thieving Magpie wrote:On July 12 2013 04:27 autoexec wrote:On July 12 2013 04:26 Thieving Magpie wrote:On July 12 2013 04:23 autoexec wrote:
I'm just starting to tune in. I haven't been following this case at all and all I know are the main points that were presented to the media at the time of occurrence. Could anyone please explain what evidence the prosecution even has at this point that could make him guilty? What they have is Rachael's testimony (showing he instigated), lack of blood on the sidewalk (suggesting his story is false), and his comment about "they always get away" (suggesting intent) None of them refute John Good's testimony. Could you explain John Good's testimony in a little more detail? Also, thanks. John Good said he saw a scuffle, guy in red at bottom, guy in black on top with the guy in black winning. He yelled for them to stop, the guy in black did not. He ran to call the police, a gunshot was heard. This means that even if it was Trayvon calling for help--John Good showed up (the help being called for) and that should have ended the fight. Since Trayvon did not stop his punches (Trayvon wore black), the shot is self defense. It wouldn't matter if Zimmerman instigated It wouldn't matter if Trayvon was yelling It wouldn't even matter if Zimmerman intended to shoot Trayvon An altercation happened, Trayvon started winning, John Good shows up telling them to stop. Whatever happened prior to that is null and void since it should have been over. Trayvon continues to punch Zimmerman, John runs for the phone, Zimmerman defends himself with the gun. Unless the prosecution proves John Good a liar; they have no case. Simply proving John Good inaccurate is not enough, since his testimony would still be enough for reasonable doubt. They have to show that he's a liar. So you're allowed to instigate a fight and then shoot the person if they get the better of you in florida? we don't know who instigated the fight in this case and if your life is in danger like Zimmerman said he believes, you can defend yourself. I still have trouble with this "instigation" thing. Zimmerman was safe, in a car, on the phone with police. He wasn't even on Martin's radar and other than "he looks suspicious" (an incredibly vague modifier) he had no reason to follow him. Like...no matter who won the fight or who actually escalated it to violence, surely Zimmerman is partly responsible for the confrontation. The fact that he was carrying a gun with him means he anticipated violence. But he went anyway? And unless Florida has really aggressive neighborhood watches, I thought that neighborhood watchmen didn't even confront criminals. They just looked out for them and then reported to police. I feel the same way you do but the law doesn't look at it that way and thats all that really matters.
Zimmerman was legally allowed to follow Martin. You've never coincidentally been going the same direction as someone? That's indistinguishable from following.
Zimmerman was legally allowed to carry that gun. Carrying a gun does not mean he anticipated violence. You wear your seatbelt right? Do you anticipate getting in a car crash?
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On July 12 2013 04:58 Klondikebar wrote:Show nested quote +On July 12 2013 04:55 dotHead wrote:On July 12 2013 04:49 Klondikebar wrote:On July 12 2013 04:46 BigFan wrote:On July 12 2013 04:44 L3gendary wrote:On July 12 2013 04:34 Thieving Magpie wrote:On July 12 2013 04:27 autoexec wrote:On July 12 2013 04:26 Thieving Magpie wrote:On July 12 2013 04:23 autoexec wrote:
I'm just starting to tune in. I haven't been following this case at all and all I know are the main points that were presented to the media at the time of occurrence. Could anyone please explain what evidence the prosecution even has at this point that could make him guilty? What they have is Rachael's testimony (showing he instigated), lack of blood on the sidewalk (suggesting his story is false), and his comment about "they always get away" (suggesting intent) None of them refute John Good's testimony. Could you explain John Good's testimony in a little more detail? Also, thanks. John Good said he saw a scuffle, guy in red at bottom, guy in black on top with the guy in black winning. He yelled for them to stop, the guy in black did not. He ran to call the police, a gunshot was heard. This means that even if it was Trayvon calling for help--John Good showed up (the help being called for) and that should have ended the fight. Since Trayvon did not stop his punches (Trayvon wore black), the shot is self defense. It wouldn't matter if Zimmerman instigated It wouldn't matter if Trayvon was yelling It wouldn't even matter if Zimmerman intended to shoot Trayvon An altercation happened, Trayvon started winning, John Good shows up telling them to stop. Whatever happened prior to that is null and void since it should have been over. Trayvon continues to punch Zimmerman, John runs for the phone, Zimmerman defends himself with the gun. Unless the prosecution proves John Good a liar; they have no case. Simply proving John Good inaccurate is not enough, since his testimony would still be enough for reasonable doubt. They have to show that he's a liar. So you're allowed to instigate a fight and then shoot the person if they get the better of you in florida? we don't know who instigated the fight in this case and if your life is in danger like Zimmerman said he believes, you can defend yourself. And unless Florida has really aggressive neighborhood watches, I thought that neighborhood watchmen didn't even confront criminals. They just looked out for them and then reported to police. He did report it (Hence the calls to 311) and according to GZ he didn't confront him. Treyvon ran off, and jumped GZ from the bushes or something. Which means Zimmerman was still walking around looking for him instead of returning to his car even though his job as a neighborhood watchman was complete. I understand the law and I understand that it probably won't find Zimmerman guilty. But I just can't help but think he got arrogant and dug his own grave here...or at last passed out shovels.
He was looking around looking for the adress the 911 attendant asked him. Unless you have some evidence that contradicts his story.
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On July 12 2013 04:59 Millitron wrote:Show nested quote +On July 12 2013 04:55 ComaDose wrote:On July 12 2013 04:49 Klondikebar wrote:On July 12 2013 04:46 BigFan wrote:On July 12 2013 04:44 L3gendary wrote:On July 12 2013 04:34 Thieving Magpie wrote:On July 12 2013 04:27 autoexec wrote:On July 12 2013 04:26 Thieving Magpie wrote:On July 12 2013 04:23 autoexec wrote:
I'm just starting to tune in. I haven't been following this case at all and all I know are the main points that were presented to the media at the time of occurrence. Could anyone please explain what evidence the prosecution even has at this point that could make him guilty? What they have is Rachael's testimony (showing he instigated), lack of blood on the sidewalk (suggesting his story is false), and his comment about "they always get away" (suggesting intent) None of them refute John Good's testimony. Could you explain John Good's testimony in a little more detail? Also, thanks. John Good said he saw a scuffle, guy in red at bottom, guy in black on top with the guy in black winning. He yelled for them to stop, the guy in black did not. He ran to call the police, a gunshot was heard. This means that even if it was Trayvon calling for help--John Good showed up (the help being called for) and that should have ended the fight. Since Trayvon did not stop his punches (Trayvon wore black), the shot is self defense. It wouldn't matter if Zimmerman instigated It wouldn't matter if Trayvon was yelling It wouldn't even matter if Zimmerman intended to shoot Trayvon An altercation happened, Trayvon started winning, John Good shows up telling them to stop. Whatever happened prior to that is null and void since it should have been over. Trayvon continues to punch Zimmerman, John runs for the phone, Zimmerman defends himself with the gun. Unless the prosecution proves John Good a liar; they have no case. Simply proving John Good inaccurate is not enough, since his testimony would still be enough for reasonable doubt. They have to show that he's a liar. So you're allowed to instigate a fight and then shoot the person if they get the better of you in florida? we don't know who instigated the fight in this case and if your life is in danger like Zimmerman said he believes, you can defend yourself. I still have trouble with this "instigation" thing. Zimmerman was safe, in a car, on the phone with police. He wasn't even on Martin's radar and other than "he looks suspicious" (an incredibly vague modifier) he had no reason to follow him. Like...no matter who won the fight or who actually escalated it to violence, surely Zimmerman is partly responsible for the confrontation. The fact that he was carrying a gun with him means he anticipated violence. But he went anyway? And unless Florida has really aggressive neighborhood watches, I thought that neighborhood watchmen didn't even confront criminals. They just looked out for them and then reported to police. I feel the same way you do but the law doesn't look at it that way and thats all that really matters. Zimmerman was legally allowed to follow Martin. You've never coincidentally been going the same direction as someone? That's indistinguishable from following. Zimmerman was legally allowed to carry that gun. Carrying a gun does not mean he anticipated violence. You wear your seatbelt right? Do you anticipate getting in a car crash?
Umm...yes wearing a seat belt means you are anticipating a car crash.
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On July 12 2013 04:59 Millitron wrote:Show nested quote +On July 12 2013 04:55 ComaDose wrote:On July 12 2013 04:49 Klondikebar wrote:On July 12 2013 04:46 BigFan wrote:On July 12 2013 04:44 L3gendary wrote:On July 12 2013 04:34 Thieving Magpie wrote:On July 12 2013 04:27 autoexec wrote:On July 12 2013 04:26 Thieving Magpie wrote:On July 12 2013 04:23 autoexec wrote:
I'm just starting to tune in. I haven't been following this case at all and all I know are the main points that were presented to the media at the time of occurrence. Could anyone please explain what evidence the prosecution even has at this point that could make him guilty? What they have is Rachael's testimony (showing he instigated), lack of blood on the sidewalk (suggesting his story is false), and his comment about "they always get away" (suggesting intent) None of them refute John Good's testimony. Could you explain John Good's testimony in a little more detail? Also, thanks. John Good said he saw a scuffle, guy in red at bottom, guy in black on top with the guy in black winning. He yelled for them to stop, the guy in black did not. He ran to call the police, a gunshot was heard. This means that even if it was Trayvon calling for help--John Good showed up (the help being called for) and that should have ended the fight. Since Trayvon did not stop his punches (Trayvon wore black), the shot is self defense. It wouldn't matter if Zimmerman instigated It wouldn't matter if Trayvon was yelling It wouldn't even matter if Zimmerman intended to shoot Trayvon An altercation happened, Trayvon started winning, John Good shows up telling them to stop. Whatever happened prior to that is null and void since it should have been over. Trayvon continues to punch Zimmerman, John runs for the phone, Zimmerman defends himself with the gun. Unless the prosecution proves John Good a liar; they have no case. Simply proving John Good inaccurate is not enough, since his testimony would still be enough for reasonable doubt. They have to show that he's a liar. So you're allowed to instigate a fight and then shoot the person if they get the better of you in florida? we don't know who instigated the fight in this case and if your life is in danger like Zimmerman said he believes, you can defend yourself. I still have trouble with this "instigation" thing. Zimmerman was safe, in a car, on the phone with police. He wasn't even on Martin's radar and other than "he looks suspicious" (an incredibly vague modifier) he had no reason to follow him. Like...no matter who won the fight or who actually escalated it to violence, surely Zimmerman is partly responsible for the confrontation. The fact that he was carrying a gun with him means he anticipated violence. But he went anyway? And unless Florida has really aggressive neighborhood watches, I thought that neighborhood watchmen didn't even confront criminals. They just looked out for them and then reported to police. I feel the same way you do but the law doesn't look at it that way and thats all that really matters. Zimmerman was legally allowed to follow Martin. You've never coincidentally been going the same direction as someone? That's indistinguishable from following. Zimmerman was legally allowed to carry that gun. Carrying a gun does not mean he anticipated violence. You wear your seatbelt right? Do you anticipate getting in a car crash?
Why are you responding to me?
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On July 12 2013 05:01 Klondikebar wrote:Show nested quote +On July 12 2013 04:59 Millitron wrote:On July 12 2013 04:55 ComaDose wrote:On July 12 2013 04:49 Klondikebar wrote:On July 12 2013 04:46 BigFan wrote:On July 12 2013 04:44 L3gendary wrote:On July 12 2013 04:34 Thieving Magpie wrote:On July 12 2013 04:27 autoexec wrote:On July 12 2013 04:26 Thieving Magpie wrote:On July 12 2013 04:23 autoexec wrote:
I'm just starting to tune in. I haven't been following this case at all and all I know are the main points that were presented to the media at the time of occurrence. Could anyone please explain what evidence the prosecution even has at this point that could make him guilty? What they have is Rachael's testimony (showing he instigated), lack of blood on the sidewalk (suggesting his story is false), and his comment about "they always get away" (suggesting intent) None of them refute John Good's testimony. Could you explain John Good's testimony in a little more detail? Also, thanks. John Good said he saw a scuffle, guy in red at bottom, guy in black on top with the guy in black winning. He yelled for them to stop, the guy in black did not. He ran to call the police, a gunshot was heard. This means that even if it was Trayvon calling for help--John Good showed up (the help being called for) and that should have ended the fight. Since Trayvon did not stop his punches (Trayvon wore black), the shot is self defense. It wouldn't matter if Zimmerman instigated It wouldn't matter if Trayvon was yelling It wouldn't even matter if Zimmerman intended to shoot Trayvon An altercation happened, Trayvon started winning, John Good shows up telling them to stop. Whatever happened prior to that is null and void since it should have been over. Trayvon continues to punch Zimmerman, John runs for the phone, Zimmerman defends himself with the gun. Unless the prosecution proves John Good a liar; they have no case. Simply proving John Good inaccurate is not enough, since his testimony would still be enough for reasonable doubt. They have to show that he's a liar. So you're allowed to instigate a fight and then shoot the person if they get the better of you in florida? we don't know who instigated the fight in this case and if your life is in danger like Zimmerman said he believes, you can defend yourself. I still have trouble with this "instigation" thing. Zimmerman was safe, in a car, on the phone with police. He wasn't even on Martin's radar and other than "he looks suspicious" (an incredibly vague modifier) he had no reason to follow him. Like...no matter who won the fight or who actually escalated it to violence, surely Zimmerman is partly responsible for the confrontation. The fact that he was carrying a gun with him means he anticipated violence. But he went anyway? And unless Florida has really aggressive neighborhood watches, I thought that neighborhood watchmen didn't even confront criminals. They just looked out for them and then reported to police. I feel the same way you do but the law doesn't look at it that way and thats all that really matters. Zimmerman was legally allowed to follow Martin. You've never coincidentally been going the same direction as someone? That's indistinguishable from following. Zimmerman was legally allowed to carry that gun. Carrying a gun does not mean he anticipated violence. You wear your seatbelt right? Do you anticipate getting in a car crash? Umm...yes wearing a seat belt means you are anticipating a car crash.
No, it means you are aware it is a possibility and want to be prepared, not that you expect it to happen.
On July 12 2013 05:02 ComaDose wrote:Show nested quote +On July 12 2013 04:59 Millitron wrote:On July 12 2013 04:55 ComaDose wrote:On July 12 2013 04:49 Klondikebar wrote:On July 12 2013 04:46 BigFan wrote:On July 12 2013 04:44 L3gendary wrote:On July 12 2013 04:34 Thieving Magpie wrote:On July 12 2013 04:27 autoexec wrote:On July 12 2013 04:26 Thieving Magpie wrote:On July 12 2013 04:23 autoexec wrote:
I'm just starting to tune in. I haven't been following this case at all and all I know are the main points that were presented to the media at the time of occurrence. Could anyone please explain what evidence the prosecution even has at this point that could make him guilty? What they have is Rachael's testimony (showing he instigated), lack of blood on the sidewalk (suggesting his story is false), and his comment about "they always get away" (suggesting intent) None of them refute John Good's testimony. Could you explain John Good's testimony in a little more detail? Also, thanks. John Good said he saw a scuffle, guy in red at bottom, guy in black on top with the guy in black winning. He yelled for them to stop, the guy in black did not. He ran to call the police, a gunshot was heard. This means that even if it was Trayvon calling for help--John Good showed up (the help being called for) and that should have ended the fight. Since Trayvon did not stop his punches (Trayvon wore black), the shot is self defense. It wouldn't matter if Zimmerman instigated It wouldn't matter if Trayvon was yelling It wouldn't even matter if Zimmerman intended to shoot Trayvon An altercation happened, Trayvon started winning, John Good shows up telling them to stop. Whatever happened prior to that is null and void since it should have been over. Trayvon continues to punch Zimmerman, John runs for the phone, Zimmerman defends himself with the gun. Unless the prosecution proves John Good a liar; they have no case. Simply proving John Good inaccurate is not enough, since his testimony would still be enough for reasonable doubt. They have to show that he's a liar. So you're allowed to instigate a fight and then shoot the person if they get the better of you in florida? we don't know who instigated the fight in this case and if your life is in danger like Zimmerman said he believes, you can defend yourself. I still have trouble with this "instigation" thing. Zimmerman was safe, in a car, on the phone with police. He wasn't even on Martin's radar and other than "he looks suspicious" (an incredibly vague modifier) he had no reason to follow him. Like...no matter who won the fight or who actually escalated it to violence, surely Zimmerman is partly responsible for the confrontation. The fact that he was carrying a gun with him means he anticipated violence. But he went anyway? And unless Florida has really aggressive neighborhood watches, I thought that neighborhood watchmen didn't even confront criminals. They just looked out for them and then reported to police. I feel the same way you do but the law doesn't look at it that way and thats all that really matters. Zimmerman was legally allowed to follow Martin. You've never coincidentally been going the same direction as someone? That's indistinguishable from following. Zimmerman was legally allowed to carry that gun. Carrying a gun does not mean he anticipated violence. You wear your seatbelt right? Do you anticipate getting in a car crash? Why are you responding to me?
You agreed with Klondike and his post was on the previous page.
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On July 12 2013 05:01 Klondikebar wrote:Show nested quote +On July 12 2013 04:59 Millitron wrote:On July 12 2013 04:55 ComaDose wrote:On July 12 2013 04:49 Klondikebar wrote:On July 12 2013 04:46 BigFan wrote:On July 12 2013 04:44 L3gendary wrote:On July 12 2013 04:34 Thieving Magpie wrote:On July 12 2013 04:27 autoexec wrote:On July 12 2013 04:26 Thieving Magpie wrote:On July 12 2013 04:23 autoexec wrote:
I'm just starting to tune in. I haven't been following this case at all and all I know are the main points that were presented to the media at the time of occurrence. Could anyone please explain what evidence the prosecution even has at this point that could make him guilty? What they have is Rachael's testimony (showing he instigated), lack of blood on the sidewalk (suggesting his story is false), and his comment about "they always get away" (suggesting intent) None of them refute John Good's testimony. Could you explain John Good's testimony in a little more detail? Also, thanks. John Good said he saw a scuffle, guy in red at bottom, guy in black on top with the guy in black winning. He yelled for them to stop, the guy in black did not. He ran to call the police, a gunshot was heard. This means that even if it was Trayvon calling for help--John Good showed up (the help being called for) and that should have ended the fight. Since Trayvon did not stop his punches (Trayvon wore black), the shot is self defense. It wouldn't matter if Zimmerman instigated It wouldn't matter if Trayvon was yelling It wouldn't even matter if Zimmerman intended to shoot Trayvon An altercation happened, Trayvon started winning, John Good shows up telling them to stop. Whatever happened prior to that is null and void since it should have been over. Trayvon continues to punch Zimmerman, John runs for the phone, Zimmerman defends himself with the gun. Unless the prosecution proves John Good a liar; they have no case. Simply proving John Good inaccurate is not enough, since his testimony would still be enough for reasonable doubt. They have to show that he's a liar. So you're allowed to instigate a fight and then shoot the person if they get the better of you in florida? we don't know who instigated the fight in this case and if your life is in danger like Zimmerman said he believes, you can defend yourself. I still have trouble with this "instigation" thing. Zimmerman was safe, in a car, on the phone with police. He wasn't even on Martin's radar and other than "he looks suspicious" (an incredibly vague modifier) he had no reason to follow him. Like...no matter who won the fight or who actually escalated it to violence, surely Zimmerman is partly responsible for the confrontation. The fact that he was carrying a gun with him means he anticipated violence. But he went anyway? And unless Florida has really aggressive neighborhood watches, I thought that neighborhood watchmen didn't even confront criminals. They just looked out for them and then reported to police. I feel the same way you do but the law doesn't look at it that way and thats all that really matters. Zimmerman was legally allowed to follow Martin. You've never coincidentally been going the same direction as someone? That's indistinguishable from following. Zimmerman was legally allowed to carry that gun. Carrying a gun does not mean he anticipated violence. You wear your seatbelt right? Do you anticipate getting in a car crash? Umm...yes wearing a seat belt means you are anticipating a car crash.
Seriously ?????
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On July 12 2013 05:01 Klondikebar wrote:Show nested quote +On July 12 2013 04:59 Millitron wrote:On July 12 2013 04:55 ComaDose wrote:On July 12 2013 04:49 Klondikebar wrote:On July 12 2013 04:46 BigFan wrote:On July 12 2013 04:44 L3gendary wrote:On July 12 2013 04:34 Thieving Magpie wrote:On July 12 2013 04:27 autoexec wrote:On July 12 2013 04:26 Thieving Magpie wrote:On July 12 2013 04:23 autoexec wrote:
I'm just starting to tune in. I haven't been following this case at all and all I know are the main points that were presented to the media at the time of occurrence. Could anyone please explain what evidence the prosecution even has at this point that could make him guilty? What they have is Rachael's testimony (showing he instigated), lack of blood on the sidewalk (suggesting his story is false), and his comment about "they always get away" (suggesting intent) None of them refute John Good's testimony. Could you explain John Good's testimony in a little more detail? Also, thanks. John Good said he saw a scuffle, guy in red at bottom, guy in black on top with the guy in black winning. He yelled for them to stop, the guy in black did not. He ran to call the police, a gunshot was heard. This means that even if it was Trayvon calling for help--John Good showed up (the help being called for) and that should have ended the fight. Since Trayvon did not stop his punches (Trayvon wore black), the shot is self defense. It wouldn't matter if Zimmerman instigated It wouldn't matter if Trayvon was yelling It wouldn't even matter if Zimmerman intended to shoot Trayvon An altercation happened, Trayvon started winning, John Good shows up telling them to stop. Whatever happened prior to that is null and void since it should have been over. Trayvon continues to punch Zimmerman, John runs for the phone, Zimmerman defends himself with the gun. Unless the prosecution proves John Good a liar; they have no case. Simply proving John Good inaccurate is not enough, since his testimony would still be enough for reasonable doubt. They have to show that he's a liar. So you're allowed to instigate a fight and then shoot the person if they get the better of you in florida? we don't know who instigated the fight in this case and if your life is in danger like Zimmerman said he believes, you can defend yourself. I still have trouble with this "instigation" thing. Zimmerman was safe, in a car, on the phone with police. He wasn't even on Martin's radar and other than "he looks suspicious" (an incredibly vague modifier) he had no reason to follow him. Like...no matter who won the fight or who actually escalated it to violence, surely Zimmerman is partly responsible for the confrontation. The fact that he was carrying a gun with him means he anticipated violence. But he went anyway? And unless Florida has really aggressive neighborhood watches, I thought that neighborhood watchmen didn't even confront criminals. They just looked out for them and then reported to police. I feel the same way you do but the law doesn't look at it that way and thats all that really matters. Zimmerman was legally allowed to follow Martin. You've never coincidentally been going the same direction as someone? That's indistinguishable from following. Zimmerman was legally allowed to carry that gun. Carrying a gun does not mean he anticipated violence. You wear your seatbelt right? Do you anticipate getting in a car crash? Umm...yes wearing a seat belt means you are anticipating a car crash.
According to your logic, carrying a gun would always mean you anticipate violence and as such would never be able to use it for self-defense. It shows you don't believe people should carry guns, but makes no sense in the real world, where people can.
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On July 12 2013 04:44 L3gendary wrote:
So you're allowed to instigate a fight and then shoot the person if they get the better of you in florida?
It depends:
776.041 Use of force by aggressor.—The justification described in the preceding sections of this chapter is not available to a person who: (1) Is attempting to commit, committing, or escaping after the commission of, a forcible felony; or (2) Initially provokes the use of force against himself or herself, unless:
(a) Such force is so great that the person reasonably believes that he or she is in imminent danger of death or great bodily harm and that he or she has exhausted every reasonable means to escape such danger other than the use of force which is likely to cause death or great bodily harm to the assailant; or
(b) In good faith, the person withdraws from physical contact with the assailant and indicates clearly to the assailant that he or she desires to withdraw and terminate the use of force, but the assailant continues or resumes the use of force.
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On July 12 2013 05:01 Klondikebar wrote:Show nested quote +On July 12 2013 04:59 Millitron wrote:On July 12 2013 04:55 ComaDose wrote:On July 12 2013 04:49 Klondikebar wrote:On July 12 2013 04:46 BigFan wrote:On July 12 2013 04:44 L3gendary wrote:On July 12 2013 04:34 Thieving Magpie wrote:On July 12 2013 04:27 autoexec wrote:On July 12 2013 04:26 Thieving Magpie wrote:On July 12 2013 04:23 autoexec wrote:
I'm just starting to tune in. I haven't been following this case at all and all I know are the main points that were presented to the media at the time of occurrence. Could anyone please explain what evidence the prosecution even has at this point that could make him guilty? What they have is Rachael's testimony (showing he instigated), lack of blood on the sidewalk (suggesting his story is false), and his comment about "they always get away" (suggesting intent) None of them refute John Good's testimony. Could you explain John Good's testimony in a little more detail? Also, thanks. John Good said he saw a scuffle, guy in red at bottom, guy in black on top with the guy in black winning. He yelled for them to stop, the guy in black did not. He ran to call the police, a gunshot was heard. This means that even if it was Trayvon calling for help--John Good showed up (the help being called for) and that should have ended the fight. Since Trayvon did not stop his punches (Trayvon wore black), the shot is self defense. It wouldn't matter if Zimmerman instigated It wouldn't matter if Trayvon was yelling It wouldn't even matter if Zimmerman intended to shoot Trayvon An altercation happened, Trayvon started winning, John Good shows up telling them to stop. Whatever happened prior to that is null and void since it should have been over. Trayvon continues to punch Zimmerman, John runs for the phone, Zimmerman defends himself with the gun. Unless the prosecution proves John Good a liar; they have no case. Simply proving John Good inaccurate is not enough, since his testimony would still be enough for reasonable doubt. They have to show that he's a liar. So you're allowed to instigate a fight and then shoot the person if they get the better of you in florida? we don't know who instigated the fight in this case and if your life is in danger like Zimmerman said he believes, you can defend yourself. I still have trouble with this "instigation" thing. Zimmerman was safe, in a car, on the phone with police. He wasn't even on Martin's radar and other than "he looks suspicious" (an incredibly vague modifier) he had no reason to follow him. Like...no matter who won the fight or who actually escalated it to violence, surely Zimmerman is partly responsible for the confrontation. The fact that he was carrying a gun with him means he anticipated violence. But he went anyway? And unless Florida has really aggressive neighborhood watches, I thought that neighborhood watchmen didn't even confront criminals. They just looked out for them and then reported to police. I feel the same way you do but the law doesn't look at it that way and thats all that really matters. Zimmerman was legally allowed to follow Martin. You've never coincidentally been going the same direction as someone? That's indistinguishable from following. Zimmerman was legally allowed to carry that gun. Carrying a gun does not mean he anticipated violence. You wear your seatbelt right? Do you anticipate getting in a car crash? Umm...yes wearing a seat belt means you are anticipating a car crash.
No, I wear it every time, but I have no plans on crashing. Thats how carrying a gun works too.
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On July 12 2013 05:02 Millitron wrote:Show nested quote +On July 12 2013 05:01 Klondikebar wrote:On July 12 2013 04:59 Millitron wrote:On July 12 2013 04:55 ComaDose wrote:On July 12 2013 04:49 Klondikebar wrote:On July 12 2013 04:46 BigFan wrote:On July 12 2013 04:44 L3gendary wrote:On July 12 2013 04:34 Thieving Magpie wrote:On July 12 2013 04:27 autoexec wrote:On July 12 2013 04:26 Thieving Magpie wrote:
[quote]
What they have is Rachael's testimony (showing he instigated), lack of blood on the sidewalk (suggesting his story is false), and his comment about "they always get away" (suggesting intent)
None of them refute John Good's testimony. Could you explain John Good's testimony in a little more detail? Also, thanks. John Good said he saw a scuffle, guy in red at bottom, guy in black on top with the guy in black winning. He yelled for them to stop, the guy in black did not. He ran to call the police, a gunshot was heard. This means that even if it was Trayvon calling for help--John Good showed up (the help being called for) and that should have ended the fight. Since Trayvon did not stop his punches (Trayvon wore black), the shot is self defense. It wouldn't matter if Zimmerman instigated It wouldn't matter if Trayvon was yelling It wouldn't even matter if Zimmerman intended to shoot Trayvon An altercation happened, Trayvon started winning, John Good shows up telling them to stop. Whatever happened prior to that is null and void since it should have been over. Trayvon continues to punch Zimmerman, John runs for the phone, Zimmerman defends himself with the gun. Unless the prosecution proves John Good a liar; they have no case. Simply proving John Good inaccurate is not enough, since his testimony would still be enough for reasonable doubt. They have to show that he's a liar. So you're allowed to instigate a fight and then shoot the person if they get the better of you in florida? we don't know who instigated the fight in this case and if your life is in danger like Zimmerman said he believes, you can defend yourself. I still have trouble with this "instigation" thing. Zimmerman was safe, in a car, on the phone with police. He wasn't even on Martin's radar and other than "he looks suspicious" (an incredibly vague modifier) he had no reason to follow him. Like...no matter who won the fight or who actually escalated it to violence, surely Zimmerman is partly responsible for the confrontation. The fact that he was carrying a gun with him means he anticipated violence. But he went anyway? And unless Florida has really aggressive neighborhood watches, I thought that neighborhood watchmen didn't even confront criminals. They just looked out for them and then reported to police. I feel the same way you do but the law doesn't look at it that way and thats all that really matters. Zimmerman was legally allowed to follow Martin. You've never coincidentally been going the same direction as someone? That's indistinguishable from following. Zimmerman was legally allowed to carry that gun. Carrying a gun does not mean he anticipated violence. You wear your seatbelt right? Do you anticipate getting in a car crash? Umm...yes wearing a seat belt means you are anticipating a car crash. No, it means you are aware it is a possibility and want to be prepared, not that you expect it to happen. Show nested quote +On July 12 2013 05:02 ComaDose wrote:On July 12 2013 04:59 Millitron wrote:On July 12 2013 04:55 ComaDose wrote:On July 12 2013 04:49 Klondikebar wrote:On July 12 2013 04:46 BigFan wrote:On July 12 2013 04:44 L3gendary wrote:On July 12 2013 04:34 Thieving Magpie wrote:On July 12 2013 04:27 autoexec wrote:On July 12 2013 04:26 Thieving Magpie wrote:
[quote]
What they have is Rachael's testimony (showing he instigated), lack of blood on the sidewalk (suggesting his story is false), and his comment about "they always get away" (suggesting intent)
None of them refute John Good's testimony. Could you explain John Good's testimony in a little more detail? Also, thanks. John Good said he saw a scuffle, guy in red at bottom, guy in black on top with the guy in black winning. He yelled for them to stop, the guy in black did not. He ran to call the police, a gunshot was heard. This means that even if it was Trayvon calling for help--John Good showed up (the help being called for) and that should have ended the fight. Since Trayvon did not stop his punches (Trayvon wore black), the shot is self defense. It wouldn't matter if Zimmerman instigated It wouldn't matter if Trayvon was yelling It wouldn't even matter if Zimmerman intended to shoot Trayvon An altercation happened, Trayvon started winning, John Good shows up telling them to stop. Whatever happened prior to that is null and void since it should have been over. Trayvon continues to punch Zimmerman, John runs for the phone, Zimmerman defends himself with the gun. Unless the prosecution proves John Good a liar; they have no case. Simply proving John Good inaccurate is not enough, since his testimony would still be enough for reasonable doubt. They have to show that he's a liar. So you're allowed to instigate a fight and then shoot the person if they get the better of you in florida? we don't know who instigated the fight in this case and if your life is in danger like Zimmerman said he believes, you can defend yourself. I still have trouble with this "instigation" thing. Zimmerman was safe, in a car, on the phone with police. He wasn't even on Martin's radar and other than "he looks suspicious" (an incredibly vague modifier) he had no reason to follow him. Like...no matter who won the fight or who actually escalated it to violence, surely Zimmerman is partly responsible for the confrontation. The fact that he was carrying a gun with him means he anticipated violence. But he went anyway? And unless Florida has really aggressive neighborhood watches, I thought that neighborhood watchmen didn't even confront criminals. They just looked out for them and then reported to police. I feel the same way you do but the law doesn't look at it that way and thats all that really matters. Zimmerman was legally allowed to follow Martin. You've never coincidentally been going the same direction as someone? That's indistinguishable from following. Zimmerman was legally allowed to carry that gun. Carrying a gun does not mean he anticipated violence. You wear your seatbelt right? Do you anticipate getting in a car crash? Why are you responding to me? You agreed with Klondike and his post was on the previous page.
I said the law does not see it this way.
Then you told my why it was legal.
I know its legal, thats why I said it.
I still think zimmerman is an irresponsible fool.
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On July 12 2013 04:58 Klondikebar wrote:Show nested quote +On July 12 2013 04:55 dotHead wrote:On July 12 2013 04:49 Klondikebar wrote:On July 12 2013 04:46 BigFan wrote:On July 12 2013 04:44 L3gendary wrote:On July 12 2013 04:34 Thieving Magpie wrote:On July 12 2013 04:27 autoexec wrote:On July 12 2013 04:26 Thieving Magpie wrote:On July 12 2013 04:23 autoexec wrote:
I'm just starting to tune in. I haven't been following this case at all and all I know are the main points that were presented to the media at the time of occurrence. Could anyone please explain what evidence the prosecution even has at this point that could make him guilty? What they have is Rachael's testimony (showing he instigated), lack of blood on the sidewalk (suggesting his story is false), and his comment about "they always get away" (suggesting intent) None of them refute John Good's testimony. Could you explain John Good's testimony in a little more detail? Also, thanks. John Good said he saw a scuffle, guy in red at bottom, guy in black on top with the guy in black winning. He yelled for them to stop, the guy in black did not. He ran to call the police, a gunshot was heard. This means that even if it was Trayvon calling for help--John Good showed up (the help being called for) and that should have ended the fight. Since Trayvon did not stop his punches (Trayvon wore black), the shot is self defense. It wouldn't matter if Zimmerman instigated It wouldn't matter if Trayvon was yelling It wouldn't even matter if Zimmerman intended to shoot Trayvon An altercation happened, Trayvon started winning, John Good shows up telling them to stop. Whatever happened prior to that is null and void since it should have been over. Trayvon continues to punch Zimmerman, John runs for the phone, Zimmerman defends himself with the gun. Unless the prosecution proves John Good a liar; they have no case. Simply proving John Good inaccurate is not enough, since his testimony would still be enough for reasonable doubt. They have to show that he's a liar. So you're allowed to instigate a fight and then shoot the person if they get the better of you in florida? we don't know who instigated the fight in this case and if your life is in danger like Zimmerman said he believes, you can defend yourself. And unless Florida has really aggressive neighborhood watches, I thought that neighborhood watchmen didn't even confront criminals. They just looked out for them and then reported to police. He did report it (Hence the calls to 311) and according to GZ he didn't confront him. Treyvon ran off, and jumped GZ from the bushes or something. Which means Zimmerman was still walking around looking for him instead of returning to his car even though his job as a neighborhood watchman was complete. I understand the law and I understand that it probably won't find Zimmerman guilty. But I just can't help but think he got arrogant and dug his own grave here...or at last passed out shovels.
Going around looking for someone is not unreasonable for a neighborhood watch even if it may be unwise in certain situations. For me it all comes down to how the fight actually started, which is still up in the air and whether or not ZImmerman was justified in fearing for his life (plausible). I can agree that Zimmerman holds some responsibility on the outcome but for me he's already been punished enough being in the public spotlight and with a lot of people thinking he's guilty regardless of how this trial ends.
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Prosecution's list of evidence supporting "ill will" is remarkable.
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On July 12 2013 05:04 ComaDose wrote:Show nested quote +On July 12 2013 05:02 Millitron wrote:On July 12 2013 05:01 Klondikebar wrote:On July 12 2013 04:59 Millitron wrote:On July 12 2013 04:55 ComaDose wrote:On July 12 2013 04:49 Klondikebar wrote:On July 12 2013 04:46 BigFan wrote:On July 12 2013 04:44 L3gendary wrote:On July 12 2013 04:34 Thieving Magpie wrote:On July 12 2013 04:27 autoexec wrote:
[quote]
Could you explain John Good's testimony in a little more detail?
Also, thanks. John Good said he saw a scuffle, guy in red at bottom, guy in black on top with the guy in black winning. He yelled for them to stop, the guy in black did not. He ran to call the police, a gunshot was heard. This means that even if it was Trayvon calling for help--John Good showed up (the help being called for) and that should have ended the fight. Since Trayvon did not stop his punches (Trayvon wore black), the shot is self defense. It wouldn't matter if Zimmerman instigated It wouldn't matter if Trayvon was yelling It wouldn't even matter if Zimmerman intended to shoot Trayvon An altercation happened, Trayvon started winning, John Good shows up telling them to stop. Whatever happened prior to that is null and void since it should have been over. Trayvon continues to punch Zimmerman, John runs for the phone, Zimmerman defends himself with the gun. Unless the prosecution proves John Good a liar; they have no case. Simply proving John Good inaccurate is not enough, since his testimony would still be enough for reasonable doubt. They have to show that he's a liar. So you're allowed to instigate a fight and then shoot the person if they get the better of you in florida? we don't know who instigated the fight in this case and if your life is in danger like Zimmerman said he believes, you can defend yourself. I still have trouble with this "instigation" thing. Zimmerman was safe, in a car, on the phone with police. He wasn't even on Martin's radar and other than "he looks suspicious" (an incredibly vague modifier) he had no reason to follow him. Like...no matter who won the fight or who actually escalated it to violence, surely Zimmerman is partly responsible for the confrontation. The fact that he was carrying a gun with him means he anticipated violence. But he went anyway? And unless Florida has really aggressive neighborhood watches, I thought that neighborhood watchmen didn't even confront criminals. They just looked out for them and then reported to police. I feel the same way you do but the law doesn't look at it that way and thats all that really matters. Zimmerman was legally allowed to follow Martin. You've never coincidentally been going the same direction as someone? That's indistinguishable from following. Zimmerman was legally allowed to carry that gun. Carrying a gun does not mean he anticipated violence. You wear your seatbelt right? Do you anticipate getting in a car crash? Umm...yes wearing a seat belt means you are anticipating a car crash. No, it means you are aware it is a possibility and want to be prepared, not that you expect it to happen. On July 12 2013 05:02 ComaDose wrote:On July 12 2013 04:59 Millitron wrote:On July 12 2013 04:55 ComaDose wrote:On July 12 2013 04:49 Klondikebar wrote:On July 12 2013 04:46 BigFan wrote:On July 12 2013 04:44 L3gendary wrote:On July 12 2013 04:34 Thieving Magpie wrote:On July 12 2013 04:27 autoexec wrote:
[quote]
Could you explain John Good's testimony in a little more detail?
Also, thanks. John Good said he saw a scuffle, guy in red at bottom, guy in black on top with the guy in black winning. He yelled for them to stop, the guy in black did not. He ran to call the police, a gunshot was heard. This means that even if it was Trayvon calling for help--John Good showed up (the help being called for) and that should have ended the fight. Since Trayvon did not stop his punches (Trayvon wore black), the shot is self defense. It wouldn't matter if Zimmerman instigated It wouldn't matter if Trayvon was yelling It wouldn't even matter if Zimmerman intended to shoot Trayvon An altercation happened, Trayvon started winning, John Good shows up telling them to stop. Whatever happened prior to that is null and void since it should have been over. Trayvon continues to punch Zimmerman, John runs for the phone, Zimmerman defends himself with the gun. Unless the prosecution proves John Good a liar; they have no case. Simply proving John Good inaccurate is not enough, since his testimony would still be enough for reasonable doubt. They have to show that he's a liar. So you're allowed to instigate a fight and then shoot the person if they get the better of you in florida? we don't know who instigated the fight in this case and if your life is in danger like Zimmerman said he believes, you can defend yourself. I still have trouble with this "instigation" thing. Zimmerman was safe, in a car, on the phone with police. He wasn't even on Martin's radar and other than "he looks suspicious" (an incredibly vague modifier) he had no reason to follow him. Like...no matter who won the fight or who actually escalated it to violence, surely Zimmerman is partly responsible for the confrontation. The fact that he was carrying a gun with him means he anticipated violence. But he went anyway? And unless Florida has really aggressive neighborhood watches, I thought that neighborhood watchmen didn't even confront criminals. They just looked out for them and then reported to police. I feel the same way you do but the law doesn't look at it that way and thats all that really matters. Zimmerman was legally allowed to follow Martin. You've never coincidentally been going the same direction as someone? That's indistinguishable from following. Zimmerman was legally allowed to carry that gun. Carrying a gun does not mean he anticipated violence. You wear your seatbelt right? Do you anticipate getting in a car crash? Why are you responding to me? You agreed with Klondike and his post was on the previous page. I said the law does not see it this way. Then you told my why it was legal. I know its legal, thats why I said it. I still think zimmerman is an irresponsible fool.
I think the only thing Zimmerman did wrong was not immediately identifying himself to Martin. Nothing else he did was criminal, or even ill-advised in my eyes.
I certainly don't think that momentary lapse in judgment should mean Zimmerman spends 20-life in jail.
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I seriously fear for Zimmerman. The jurors will fear reprisal and their self-interest will factor into their decision. The emotional manipulation of the prosecution will be enough to push them over the age and harden them against Zimmerman.
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"effing punk" and "A's"?
Drink up guys 
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On July 12 2013 04:49 Klondikebar wrote:Show nested quote +On July 12 2013 04:46 BigFan wrote:On July 12 2013 04:44 L3gendary wrote:On July 12 2013 04:34 Thieving Magpie wrote:On July 12 2013 04:27 autoexec wrote:On July 12 2013 04:26 Thieving Magpie wrote:On July 12 2013 04:23 autoexec wrote:
I'm just starting to tune in. I haven't been following this case at all and all I know are the main points that were presented to the media at the time of occurrence. Could anyone please explain what evidence the prosecution even has at this point that could make him guilty? What they have is Rachael's testimony (showing he instigated), lack of blood on the sidewalk (suggesting his story is false), and his comment about "they always get away" (suggesting intent) None of them refute John Good's testimony. Could you explain John Good's testimony in a little more detail? Also, thanks. John Good said he saw a scuffle, guy in red at bottom, guy in black on top with the guy in black winning. He yelled for them to stop, the guy in black did not. He ran to call the police, a gunshot was heard. This means that even if it was Trayvon calling for help--John Good showed up (the help being called for) and that should have ended the fight. Since Trayvon did not stop his punches (Trayvon wore black), the shot is self defense. It wouldn't matter if Zimmerman instigated It wouldn't matter if Trayvon was yelling It wouldn't even matter if Zimmerman intended to shoot Trayvon An altercation happened, Trayvon started winning, John Good shows up telling them to stop. Whatever happened prior to that is null and void since it should have been over. Trayvon continues to punch Zimmerman, John runs for the phone, Zimmerman defends himself with the gun. Unless the prosecution proves John Good a liar; they have no case. Simply proving John Good inaccurate is not enough, since his testimony would still be enough for reasonable doubt. They have to show that he's a liar. So you're allowed to instigate a fight and then shoot the person if they get the better of you in florida? we don't know who instigated the fight in this case and if your life is in danger like Zimmerman said he believes, you can defend yourself. I still have trouble with this "instigation" thing. Zimmerman was safe, in a car, on the phone with police. He wasn't even on Martin's radar and other than "he looks suspicious" (an incredibly vague modifier) he had no reason to follow him. Like...no matter who won the fight or who actually escalated it to violence, surely Zimmerman is partly responsible for the confrontation. The fact that he was carrying a gun with him means he anticipated violence. But he went anyway? And unless Florida has really aggressive neighborhood watches, I thought that neighborhood watchmen didn't even confront criminals. They just looked out for them and then reported to police.
It's what I feel too. Martin had reason to be here, a guy find him suspicious and Martin ends up dead. I would find very difficult to be a fair jury if I had to, whatever happened in between.
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EPT
