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This is a sensitive and complex issue, please do not make comments without first reading the facts, which are cataloged in the OP.
If you make an uninformed post, or one that isn't relevant to the discussion, you will be moderated. If in doubt, don't post. |
On June 28 2013 08:01 Dosey wrote:Then forensics should have been able to find the bullet lodged in the ground at the crime scene, not to mention that the blood spatter for an upward shot to someone on top of you would be much different that that of a downward shot on someone below you. I agree with the other guy, I'm not quite sure why we have to rely eyewitness reports instead of the reports of paid professionals who should have been able to describe the series of events in a matter of minutes. Then again, this might be the "laziness of the police department" that was referred to in the media. I haven't been following the case very closely so I'm not sure what evidence the police investigation managed to find.
sorry, that article was false. there were no exit wounds, just entrance. you got it before i updated with the autopsy report.
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On June 28 2013 08:00 dAPhREAk wrote:Show nested quote +On June 28 2013 07:56 On_Slaught wrote:On June 28 2013 07:35 dAPhREAk wrote:On June 28 2013 07:28 On_Slaught wrote:
Interesting testimony from the Spanish speaking women. Saw the person who was on top and who said to call the police (Zimmerman) pacing back and forth with one hand at his head and one at his waist. If he was badly hurt he would probably be cradling his injuries, though this can be discounted because of adrenaline. However that type of pacing can be interpreted as somebody who knows they fucked up trying to figure out what to do and how to get out of this mess. Defense could just say things had gotten out of hand and Zimmerman was ofc shocked by having to shoot somebody. pacing = sign of guilt? that was certainly not the first thing that popped into my mind. I didn't say it meant he was guilty. It's part of painting a complete picture. You're a lawyer so you should know better than anyone that these trials are about creating a narrative. This is something that fits into the prosecutions picture of what happened and is certainly something you could brush over in closing while going through the events. i read this as you thinking it showed guilt: "can be interpreted as somebody who knows they fucked up trying to figure out what to do and how to get out of this mess." but if you dont think it shows guilt, i am fine with that. i think its very hard to say what pacing means because its hard to know how someone will react after a fight and shooting someone.
I'm sorry if what I said was vague. Certainly this isn't an argument you bring before the jury to say "look he paced he's guilty!" But as somebody who likes very visual and visceral closing arguments (I loved the prosecution opening) it makes sense to use this as part of the narrative. Those are the kind of visuals that stick with juries, especially if you reenact it in court haha.
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Quoting my own post, because I'll be damned if it's not on the bottom of a previous page already and I had a huge edit after the initial post.
On June 28 2013 07:59 Kaitlin wrote:
The officer who gave CPR said he looked for an exit wound but didn't find one. That is the only thing I heard as far as whether there was an exit wound.
As for the Colombian witness' testimony that GZ was on top. She was referring to a time frame after the shot was fired. That is why they did the demo in the courtroom to time how long it took her to walk from where she was to the window / door, where she saw Z on top. She heard the gun shot first, so it's a matter of George getting out from under Trayvon during the time she walked to see him on top. She did not see GZ on top before the shot was fired.
edit: Not that I find her a dishonest witness, because I think she was trying to be honest, but I have trouble believing that her demonstration was entirely accurate because:
1) her walk began immediately from the time she heard the noise. In my thoughts, I would think there would be a moment to process what it was she heard, before deciding to go to the door / window to look out. She described the gunshot not as a gunshot, but like the sound of a skateboard hitting the concrete, so her initial thought was that it was just a child playing outside who made that noise. That doesn't prompt an "immediate" walk to look out, but rather at least a few seconds to ponder, possibly put down what is in her hands, whatever, then walk.
2) her walk was a normal pace, not hurried as if it was important to get there right away to see what happened, like time was of the essence. Her non-rushed pace helps to contradict the idea that she immediately began her trek to see what happened. If she immediately dropped everything to go to see, she would have demonstrated a considerably quicker pace in the courtroom, which everyone saw, she didn't.
So, that's why I believe there was plenty of time between the gunshot and her eyewitness account for George to have gotten out from under Trayvon.
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United States6752 Posts
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Didn´t GZ told in his version he got ontop of Martin after the shooting, stretching is arms and legs out looking for weapons
(Police style) ? The officer first on scene reported that Martin lied face down, hands pulled to chest.
That fits together since the forensics said Martin was dead in between 20 seconds or minutes after the gunshot.
He reached for the wound dieing, after Zimmerman searched him.
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I pace when I have to pee, and can't. Maybe he just had to pee, and couldn't leave the scene to do so?
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United States6752 Posts
On June 28 2013 08:16 plgElwood wrote:
Didn´t GZ told in his version he got ontop of Martin after the shooting, stretching is arms and legs out looking for weapons
(Police style) ? The officer first on scene reported that Martin lied face down, hands pulled to chest.
That fits together since the forensics said Martin was dead in between 20 seconds or minutes after the gunshot.
He reached for the wound dieing, after Zimmerman searched him.
Are you suggesting Zimmerman had time to get off martin, search the body, realize no weapon was present, and then start pacing, all before the witness saw him?
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For me, showing guilt makes sense wether he is guilty or not. I would think he would be affected by killing someone. You could say showing no emotion could even be a sign that it was planned, or that he indeed has a "depraved mind".
On June 28 2013 08:20 Thieving Magpie wrote:Show nested quote +On June 28 2013 08:16 plgElwood wrote:
Didn´t GZ told in his version he got ontop of Martin after the shooting, stretching is arms and legs out looking for weapons
(Police style) ? The officer first on scene reported that Martin lied face down, hands pulled to chest.
That fits together since the forensics said Martin was dead in between 20 seconds or minutes after the gunshot.
He reached for the wound dieing, after Zimmerman searched him.
Are you suggesting Zimmerman had time to get off martin, search the body, realize no weapon was present, and then start pacing, all before the witness saw him?
She saw him on top of Martin, possibly searching him. Not only when he was pacing around.
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On June 28 2013 08:21 SKC wrote:
For me, showing guilt makes sense wether he is guilty or not. I would think he would be affected by killing someone. You could say showing no emotion could even be a sign that it was planned, or that he indeed has a "depraved mind".
All pacing shows is that his legs, for the most part, are working as intended.
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On June 28 2013 08:07 Kaitlin wrote:Quoting my own post, because I'll be damned if it's not on the bottom of a previous page already and I had a huge edit after the initial post. Show nested quote +On June 28 2013 07:59 Kaitlin wrote:
The officer who gave CPR said he looked for an exit wound but didn't find one. That is the only thing I heard as far as whether there was an exit wound.
As for the Colombian witness' testimony that GZ was on top. She was referring to a time frame after the shot was fired. That is why they did the demo in the courtroom to time how long it took her to walk from where she was to the window / door, where she saw Z on top. She heard the gun shot first, so it's a matter of George getting out from under Trayvon during the time she walked to see him on top. She did not see GZ on top before the shot was fired.
edit: Not that I find her a dishonest witness, because I think she was trying to be honest, but I have trouble believing that her demonstration was entirely accurate because:
1) her walk began immediately from the time she heard the noise. In my thoughts, I would think there would be a moment to process what it was she heard, before deciding to go to the door / window to look out. She described the gunshot not as a gunshot, but like the sound of a skateboard hitting the concrete, so her initial thought was that it was just a child playing outside who made that noise. That doesn't prompt an "immediate" walk to look out, but rather at least a few seconds to ponder, possibly put down what is in her hands, whatever, then walk.
2) her walk was a normal pace, not hurried as if it was important to get there right away to see what happened, like time was of the essence. Her non-rushed pace helps to contradict the idea that she immediately began her trek to see what happened. If she immediately dropped everything to go to see, she would have demonstrated a considerably quicker pace in the courtroom, which everyone saw, she didn't.
So, that's why I believe there was plenty of time between the gunshot and her eyewitness account for George to have gotten out from under Trayvon.
Yes, it is entirely possible that he had shot Martin and rolled him off and was on top of him to check him.
Has forensics brought out his (GZ's) shirt yet from the night of the incident? I tried googling and haven't found anything. One would think that after shooting someone in the heart (while they were on top of you) would leave a bloody mess on your shirt, no?
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On June 28 2013 08:28 Dosey wrote:Show nested quote +On June 28 2013 08:07 Kaitlin wrote:Quoting my own post, because I'll be damned if it's not on the bottom of a previous page already and I had a huge edit after the initial post. On June 28 2013 07:59 Kaitlin wrote:
The officer who gave CPR said he looked for an exit wound but didn't find one. That is the only thing I heard as far as whether there was an exit wound.
As for the Colombian witness' testimony that GZ was on top. She was referring to a time frame after the shot was fired. That is why they did the demo in the courtroom to time how long it took her to walk from where she was to the window / door, where she saw Z on top. She heard the gun shot first, so it's a matter of George getting out from under Trayvon during the time she walked to see him on top. She did not see GZ on top before the shot was fired.
edit: Not that I find her a dishonest witness, because I think she was trying to be honest, but I have trouble believing that her demonstration was entirely accurate because:
1) her walk began immediately from the time she heard the noise. In my thoughts, I would think there would be a moment to process what it was she heard, before deciding to go to the door / window to look out. She described the gunshot not as a gunshot, but like the sound of a skateboard hitting the concrete, so her initial thought was that it was just a child playing outside who made that noise. That doesn't prompt an "immediate" walk to look out, but rather at least a few seconds to ponder, possibly put down what is in her hands, whatever, then walk.
2) her walk was a normal pace, not hurried as if it was important to get there right away to see what happened, like time was of the essence. Her non-rushed pace helps to contradict the idea that she immediately began her trek to see what happened. If she immediately dropped everything to go to see, she would have demonstrated a considerably quicker pace in the courtroom, which everyone saw, she didn't.
So, that's why I believe there was plenty of time between the gunshot and her eyewitness account for George to have gotten out from under Trayvon. Yes, it is entirely possible that he had shot Martin and rolled him off and was on top of him to check him. Has forensics brought out his (GZ's) shirt yet from the night of the incident? I tried googling and haven't found anything. One would think that after shooting someone in the heart (while they were on top of you) would leave a bloody mess on your shirt, no?
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/george-zimmerman-behavior-pattern-prosecutor-article-1.1381957
This link shows some pics of his clothes.
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On June 28 2013 08:28 Dosey wrote:Show nested quote +On June 28 2013 08:07 Kaitlin wrote:Quoting my own post, because I'll be damned if it's not on the bottom of a previous page already and I had a huge edit after the initial post. On June 28 2013 07:59 Kaitlin wrote:
The officer who gave CPR said he looked for an exit wound but didn't find one. That is the only thing I heard as far as whether there was an exit wound.
As for the Colombian witness' testimony that GZ was on top. She was referring to a time frame after the shot was fired. That is why they did the demo in the courtroom to time how long it took her to walk from where she was to the window / door, where she saw Z on top. She heard the gun shot first, so it's a matter of George getting out from under Trayvon during the time she walked to see him on top. She did not see GZ on top before the shot was fired.
edit: Not that I find her a dishonest witness, because I think she was trying to be honest, but I have trouble believing that her demonstration was entirely accurate because:
1) her walk began immediately from the time she heard the noise. In my thoughts, I would think there would be a moment to process what it was she heard, before deciding to go to the door / window to look out. She described the gunshot not as a gunshot, but like the sound of a skateboard hitting the concrete, so her initial thought was that it was just a child playing outside who made that noise. That doesn't prompt an "immediate" walk to look out, but rather at least a few seconds to ponder, possibly put down what is in her hands, whatever, then walk.
2) her walk was a normal pace, not hurried as if it was important to get there right away to see what happened, like time was of the essence. Her non-rushed pace helps to contradict the idea that she immediately began her trek to see what happened. If she immediately dropped everything to go to see, she would have demonstrated a considerably quicker pace in the courtroom, which everyone saw, she didn't.
So, that's why I believe there was plenty of time between the gunshot and her eyewitness account for George to have gotten out from under Trayvon. Yes, it is entirely possible that he had shot Martin and rolled him off and was on top of him to check him. Has forensics brought out his (GZ's) shirt yet from the night of the incident? I tried googling and haven't found anything. One would think that after shooting someone in the heart (while they were on top of you) would leave a bloody mess on your shirt, no?
No. You don't start bleeding massively like that unless you hit an artery. It sure as hell doesn't squirt out all over you.
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United States6752 Posts
On June 28 2013 08:30 SKC wrote:Show nested quote +On June 28 2013 08:28 Dosey wrote:On June 28 2013 08:07 Kaitlin wrote:Quoting my own post, because I'll be damned if it's not on the bottom of a previous page already and I had a huge edit after the initial post. On June 28 2013 07:59 Kaitlin wrote:
The officer who gave CPR said he looked for an exit wound but didn't find one. That is the only thing I heard as far as whether there was an exit wound.
As for the Colombian witness' testimony that GZ was on top. She was referring to a time frame after the shot was fired. That is why they did the demo in the courtroom to time how long it took her to walk from where she was to the window / door, where she saw Z on top. She heard the gun shot first, so it's a matter of George getting out from under Trayvon during the time she walked to see him on top. She did not see GZ on top before the shot was fired.
edit: Not that I find her a dishonest witness, because I think she was trying to be honest, but I have trouble believing that her demonstration was entirely accurate because:
1) her walk began immediately from the time she heard the noise. In my thoughts, I would think there would be a moment to process what it was she heard, before deciding to go to the door / window to look out. She described the gunshot not as a gunshot, but like the sound of a skateboard hitting the concrete, so her initial thought was that it was just a child playing outside who made that noise. That doesn't prompt an "immediate" walk to look out, but rather at least a few seconds to ponder, possibly put down what is in her hands, whatever, then walk.
2) her walk was a normal pace, not hurried as if it was important to get there right away to see what happened, like time was of the essence. Her non-rushed pace helps to contradict the idea that she immediately began her trek to see what happened. If she immediately dropped everything to go to see, she would have demonstrated a considerably quicker pace in the courtroom, which everyone saw, she didn't.
So, that's why I believe there was plenty of time between the gunshot and her eyewitness account for George to have gotten out from under Trayvon. Yes, it is entirely possible that he had shot Martin and rolled him off and was on top of him to check him. Has forensics brought out his (GZ's) shirt yet from the night of the incident? I tried googling and haven't found anything. One would think that after shooting someone in the heart (while they were on top of you) would leave a bloody mess on your shirt, no? http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/george-zimmerman-behavior-pattern-prosecutor-article-1.1381957This link shows some pics of his clothes.
Aren't those Trayvon's clothes? I think he was asking for Zimmerman's shirt.
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On June 28 2013 08:34 Thieving Magpie wrote:Show nested quote +On June 28 2013 08:30 SKC wrote:On June 28 2013 08:28 Dosey wrote:On June 28 2013 08:07 Kaitlin wrote:Quoting my own post, because I'll be damned if it's not on the bottom of a previous page already and I had a huge edit after the initial post. On June 28 2013 07:59 Kaitlin wrote:
The officer who gave CPR said he looked for an exit wound but didn't find one. That is the only thing I heard as far as whether there was an exit wound.
As for the Colombian witness' testimony that GZ was on top. She was referring to a time frame after the shot was fired. That is why they did the demo in the courtroom to time how long it took her to walk from where she was to the window / door, where she saw Z on top. She heard the gun shot first, so it's a matter of George getting out from under Trayvon during the time she walked to see him on top. She did not see GZ on top before the shot was fired.
edit: Not that I find her a dishonest witness, because I think she was trying to be honest, but I have trouble believing that her demonstration was entirely accurate because:
1) her walk began immediately from the time she heard the noise. In my thoughts, I would think there would be a moment to process what it was she heard, before deciding to go to the door / window to look out. She described the gunshot not as a gunshot, but like the sound of a skateboard hitting the concrete, so her initial thought was that it was just a child playing outside who made that noise. That doesn't prompt an "immediate" walk to look out, but rather at least a few seconds to ponder, possibly put down what is in her hands, whatever, then walk.
2) her walk was a normal pace, not hurried as if it was important to get there right away to see what happened, like time was of the essence. Her non-rushed pace helps to contradict the idea that she immediately began her trek to see what happened. If she immediately dropped everything to go to see, she would have demonstrated a considerably quicker pace in the courtroom, which everyone saw, she didn't.
So, that's why I believe there was plenty of time between the gunshot and her eyewitness account for George to have gotten out from under Trayvon. Yes, it is entirely possible that he had shot Martin and rolled him off and was on top of him to check him. Has forensics brought out his (GZ's) shirt yet from the night of the incident? I tried googling and haven't found anything. One would think that after shooting someone in the heart (while they were on top of you) would leave a bloody mess on your shirt, no? http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/george-zimmerman-behavior-pattern-prosecutor-article-1.1381957This link shows some pics of his clothes. Aren't those Trayvon's clothes? I think he was asking for Zimmerman's shirt.
Yeah, neverming. But as the other guy said, wounds don't necessairly have to bleed that much. Even Trayvon's clothes aren't that messy.
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United States6752 Posts
On June 28 2013 08:28 Dosey wrote:Show nested quote +On June 28 2013 08:07 Kaitlin wrote:Quoting my own post, because I'll be damned if it's not on the bottom of a previous page already and I had a huge edit after the initial post. On June 28 2013 07:59 Kaitlin wrote:
The officer who gave CPR said he looked for an exit wound but didn't find one. That is the only thing I heard as far as whether there was an exit wound.
As for the Colombian witness' testimony that GZ was on top. She was referring to a time frame after the shot was fired. That is why they did the demo in the courtroom to time how long it took her to walk from where she was to the window / door, where she saw Z on top. She heard the gun shot first, so it's a matter of George getting out from under Trayvon during the time she walked to see him on top. She did not see GZ on top before the shot was fired.
edit: Not that I find her a dishonest witness, because I think she was trying to be honest, but I have trouble believing that her demonstration was entirely accurate because:
1) her walk began immediately from the time she heard the noise. In my thoughts, I would think there would be a moment to process what it was she heard, before deciding to go to the door / window to look out. She described the gunshot not as a gunshot, but like the sound of a skateboard hitting the concrete, so her initial thought was that it was just a child playing outside who made that noise. That doesn't prompt an "immediate" walk to look out, but rather at least a few seconds to ponder, possibly put down what is in her hands, whatever, then walk.
2) her walk was a normal pace, not hurried as if it was important to get there right away to see what happened, like time was of the essence. Her non-rushed pace helps to contradict the idea that she immediately began her trek to see what happened. If she immediately dropped everything to go to see, she would have demonstrated a considerably quicker pace in the courtroom, which everyone saw, she didn't.
So, that's why I believe there was plenty of time between the gunshot and her eyewitness account for George to have gotten out from under Trayvon. Yes, it is entirely possible that he had shot Martin and rolled him off and was on top of him to check him. Has forensics brought out his (GZ's) shirt yet from the night of the incident? I tried googling and haven't found anything. One would think that after shooting someone in the heart (while they were on top of you) would leave a bloody mess on your shirt, no?
http://www.politicsplus.org/blog/2012/03/29/zimmerman-lies-exposed/
Shirt looks relatively clean compared to how large the blood stain was on Travyon's clothes.
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On June 28 2013 08:20 Thieving Magpie wrote:Show nested quote +On June 28 2013 08:16 plgElwood wrote:
Didn´t GZ told in his version he got ontop of Martin after the shooting, stretching is arms and legs out looking for weapons
(Police style) ? The officer first on scene reported that Martin lied face down, hands pulled to chest.
That fits together since the forensics said Martin was dead in between 20 seconds or minutes after the gunshot.
He reached for the wound dieing, after Zimmerman searched him.
Are you suggesting Zimmerman had time to get off martin, search the body, realize no weapon was present, and then start pacing, all before the witness saw him?
How much time would it take? Not more than 5 seconds.
Zimmerman shoots, Martin collapses, Zimmerman gets up and searches him. The wittness saw nothing of importance since it was already too late.
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On June 28 2013 08:31 Infernal_dream wrote:Show nested quote +On June 28 2013 08:28 Dosey wrote:On June 28 2013 08:07 Kaitlin wrote:Quoting my own post, because I'll be damned if it's not on the bottom of a previous page already and I had a huge edit after the initial post. On June 28 2013 07:59 Kaitlin wrote:
The officer who gave CPR said he looked for an exit wound but didn't find one. That is the only thing I heard as far as whether there was an exit wound.
As for the Colombian witness' testimony that GZ was on top. She was referring to a time frame after the shot was fired. That is why they did the demo in the courtroom to time how long it took her to walk from where she was to the window / door, where she saw Z on top. She heard the gun shot first, so it's a matter of George getting out from under Trayvon during the time she walked to see him on top. She did not see GZ on top before the shot was fired.
edit: Not that I find her a dishonest witness, because I think she was trying to be honest, but I have trouble believing that her demonstration was entirely accurate because:
1) her walk began immediately from the time she heard the noise. In my thoughts, I would think there would be a moment to process what it was she heard, before deciding to go to the door / window to look out. She described the gunshot not as a gunshot, but like the sound of a skateboard hitting the concrete, so her initial thought was that it was just a child playing outside who made that noise. That doesn't prompt an "immediate" walk to look out, but rather at least a few seconds to ponder, possibly put down what is in her hands, whatever, then walk.
2) her walk was a normal pace, not hurried as if it was important to get there right away to see what happened, like time was of the essence. Her non-rushed pace helps to contradict the idea that she immediately began her trek to see what happened. If she immediately dropped everything to go to see, she would have demonstrated a considerably quicker pace in the courtroom, which everyone saw, she didn't.
So, that's why I believe there was plenty of time between the gunshot and her eyewitness account for George to have gotten out from under Trayvon. Yes, it is entirely possible that he had shot Martin and rolled him off and was on top of him to check him. Has forensics brought out his (GZ's) shirt yet from the night of the incident? I tried googling and haven't found anything. One would think that after shooting someone in the heart (while they were on top of you) would leave a bloody mess on your shirt, no? No. You don't start bleeding massively like that unless you hit an artery. It sure as hell doesn't squirt out all over you.
I'm not saying he should be covered in blood like he just walked off the set of a Tarantino movie, but shouldn't there at least be some blood on his clothes if he had shot someone who was on top of him? Especially considering that he had shot Martin in the heart (unless I'm reading the autopsy report incorrectly).
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On June 28 2013 08:36 SKC wrote:Show nested quote +On June 28 2013 08:34 Thieving Magpie wrote:On June 28 2013 08:30 SKC wrote:On June 28 2013 08:28 Dosey wrote:On June 28 2013 08:07 Kaitlin wrote:Quoting my own post, because I'll be damned if it's not on the bottom of a previous page already and I had a huge edit after the initial post. On June 28 2013 07:59 Kaitlin wrote:
The officer who gave CPR said he looked for an exit wound but didn't find one. That is the only thing I heard as far as whether there was an exit wound.
As for the Colombian witness' testimony that GZ was on top. She was referring to a time frame after the shot was fired. That is why they did the demo in the courtroom to time how long it took her to walk from where she was to the window / door, where she saw Z on top. She heard the gun shot first, so it's a matter of George getting out from under Trayvon during the time she walked to see him on top. She did not see GZ on top before the shot was fired.
edit: Not that I find her a dishonest witness, because I think she was trying to be honest, but I have trouble believing that her demonstration was entirely accurate because:
1) her walk began immediately from the time she heard the noise. In my thoughts, I would think there would be a moment to process what it was she heard, before deciding to go to the door / window to look out. She described the gunshot not as a gunshot, but like the sound of a skateboard hitting the concrete, so her initial thought was that it was just a child playing outside who made that noise. That doesn't prompt an "immediate" walk to look out, but rather at least a few seconds to ponder, possibly put down what is in her hands, whatever, then walk.
2) her walk was a normal pace, not hurried as if it was important to get there right away to see what happened, like time was of the essence. Her non-rushed pace helps to contradict the idea that she immediately began her trek to see what happened. If she immediately dropped everything to go to see, she would have demonstrated a considerably quicker pace in the courtroom, which everyone saw, she didn't.
So, that's why I believe there was plenty of time between the gunshot and her eyewitness account for George to have gotten out from under Trayvon. Yes, it is entirely possible that he had shot Martin and rolled him off and was on top of him to check him. Has forensics brought out his (GZ's) shirt yet from the night of the incident? I tried googling and haven't found anything. One would think that after shooting someone in the heart (while they were on top of you) would leave a bloody mess on your shirt, no? http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/george-zimmerman-behavior-pattern-prosecutor-article-1.1381957This link shows some pics of his clothes. Aren't those Trayvon's clothes? I think he was asking for Zimmerman's shirt. Yeah, neverming. But as the other guy said, wounds don't necessairly have to bleed that much. Even Trayvon's clothes aren't that messy.
i think that is also trayvon's inner sweatshirt. i recall he was wearing two.
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The Officer who arrived and did cpr said his wound was bubbling, and making bubbling sounds. Most likely the wound punctured his lung, and he was bleeding mostly internally. He also said he had him on his back, and in a sitting position trying to revive him.
One of the close up pictures in that link of his clothing is zoomed in on some holes, and says they are indeed the exit wound, dunno who to believe.
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United States6752 Posts
On June 28 2013 08:40 Dosey wrote:Show nested quote +On June 28 2013 08:31 Infernal_dream wrote:On June 28 2013 08:28 Dosey wrote:On June 28 2013 08:07 Kaitlin wrote:Quoting my own post, because I'll be damned if it's not on the bottom of a previous page already and I had a huge edit after the initial post. On June 28 2013 07:59 Kaitlin wrote:
The officer who gave CPR said he looked for an exit wound but didn't find one. That is the only thing I heard as far as whether there was an exit wound.
As for the Colombian witness' testimony that GZ was on top. She was referring to a time frame after the shot was fired. That is why they did the demo in the courtroom to time how long it took her to walk from where she was to the window / door, where she saw Z on top. She heard the gun shot first, so it's a matter of George getting out from under Trayvon during the time she walked to see him on top. She did not see GZ on top before the shot was fired.
edit: Not that I find her a dishonest witness, because I think she was trying to be honest, but I have trouble believing that her demonstration was entirely accurate because:
1) her walk began immediately from the time she heard the noise. In my thoughts, I would think there would be a moment to process what it was she heard, before deciding to go to the door / window to look out. She described the gunshot not as a gunshot, but like the sound of a skateboard hitting the concrete, so her initial thought was that it was just a child playing outside who made that noise. That doesn't prompt an "immediate" walk to look out, but rather at least a few seconds to ponder, possibly put down what is in her hands, whatever, then walk.
2) her walk was a normal pace, not hurried as if it was important to get there right away to see what happened, like time was of the essence. Her non-rushed pace helps to contradict the idea that she immediately began her trek to see what happened. If she immediately dropped everything to go to see, she would have demonstrated a considerably quicker pace in the courtroom, which everyone saw, she didn't.
So, that's why I believe there was plenty of time between the gunshot and her eyewitness account for George to have gotten out from under Trayvon. Yes, it is entirely possible that he had shot Martin and rolled him off and was on top of him to check him. Has forensics brought out his (GZ's) shirt yet from the night of the incident? I tried googling and haven't found anything. One would think that after shooting someone in the heart (while they were on top of you) would leave a bloody mess on your shirt, no? No. You don't start bleeding massively like that unless you hit an artery. It sure as hell doesn't squirt out all over you. I'm not saying he should be covered in blood like he just walked off the set of a Tarantino movie, but shouldn't there at least be some blood on his clothes if he had shot someone who was on top of him? Especially considering that he had shot Martin in the heart (unless I'm reading the autopsy report incorrectly).
There just wasn't a lot of blood overall.
None on Martin (other than his own), none on the sidewalk, etc...
very well scrubbed scene.
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EPT
