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The Affordable Healthcare Act in the U.S. Supreme Court -…

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This topic is not about the American Invasion of Iraq. Stop. - Page 23
tree.hugger
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
Philadelphia, PA10406 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-06-28 14:46:59
June 28 2012 14:44 GMT
#1021
This is good:

With this outcome, everyone gets what they want: health care for the uninsured, something to be angry about for the right.
— @mattyglesias


Also good:

Saddest & most hilarious of trombones. RT @AriFleischer: I miss Justice Harriet Miers.
— @delrayser
ModeratorEffOrt, Snow, GuMiho, and Team Liquid
xDaunt
Profile Joined March 2010
United States17988 Posts
June 28 2012 14:45 GMT
#1022
Here are some interesting points from the opinion that are a little more reassuring---

1) The individual mandate was not valid under either the commerce clause and necessary and proper clause. This places new, distinct limits on federal power.

2) The Court noted that the tax penalty associated with not paying for insurance is not so high as to effectively remove any choice. This language creates a large opening for challenging future laws that are construed like the mandate.
DoubleReed
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United States4130 Posts
June 28 2012 14:46 GMT
#1023
On June 28 2012 23:41 inzaneone wrote:
Obamacare makes me have to buy insurance or face a penalty which is still extremely bad policy. if i were to buy insurance right now i would be spending money that i can't afford. don't know where the money tree is going to come from people to pay for it. they should have shoved it right back up obama's ass. since he is not my president


Again, you seem to be misinformed. You would subsidized for the insurance if you can't afford it.
inzaneone
Profile Joined December 2010
United States18 Posts
June 28 2012 14:46 GMT
#1024
yes a tax that i have to pay if i don't get insurance because i still can't afford it.
Kaitlin
Profile Joined December 2010
United States2958 Posts
June 28 2012 14:47 GMT
#1025
Don't underestimate the importance of the Medicaid part being struck down. States can "opt out" of the expanded Medicaid portion, and many States will. This will leave the "poor" in those States without coverage in those states. This will create a flood of poor into the more liberal states and will blow up their budgets.
McBengt
Profile Joined May 2011
Sweden1684 Posts
June 28 2012 14:47 GMT
#1026
Congratulations to america, I hope this actually ends up working out for you, I really do.

The next Glenn Beck episode should be quite entertaining as well.
"My twelve year old will out-reason Bill Maher when it comes to understanding, you know, what, uh, how to logic work" - Rick Santorum
inzaneone
Profile Joined December 2010
United States18 Posts
June 28 2012 14:48 GMT
#1027
No i don't not qualify for the being subsidized first off a single person with no dependents has to make under 10k a year to get any benefits. since i make more than that i don't get any money for the insurance. the states do not have to expand the medicare program if they don't want to.
Stratos_speAr
Profile Joined May 2009
United States6959 Posts
June 28 2012 14:48 GMT
#1028
On June 28 2012 23:47 Kaitlin wrote:
Don't underestimate the importance of the Medicaid part being struck down. States can "opt out" of the expanded Medicaid portion, and many States will. This will leave the "poor" in those States without coverage in those states. This will create a flood of poor into the more liberal states and will blow up their budgets.


How will it create a flood of poor people? They aren't going to just magically lift up and move to a better location. If they were capable of doing that they already would have.
A sound mind in a sound body, is a short, but full description of a happy state in this World: he that has these two, has little more to wish for; and he that wants either of them, will be little the better for anything else.
Kaitlin
Profile Joined December 2010
United States2958 Posts
June 28 2012 14:49 GMT
#1029
On June 28 2012 23:46 DoubleReed wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 28 2012 23:41 inzaneone wrote:
Obamacare makes me have to buy insurance or face a penalty which is still extremely bad policy. if i were to buy insurance right now i would be spending money that i can't afford. don't know where the money tree is going to come from people to pay for it. they should have shoved it right back up obama's ass. since he is not my president


Again, you seem to be misinformed. You would subsidized for the insurance if you can't afford it.


Only if the State you live in goes along with the expanded Medicaid provision. However, the States joining this lawsuit, and New Jersey and potentially others, are not likely to expand their coverage. So, if you want this subsidy, you have to find a state that offers it. Over time, this effect will blow huge holes in the budgets of these States.
Kaitlin
Profile Joined December 2010
United States2958 Posts
June 28 2012 14:50 GMT
#1030
On June 28 2012 23:48 Stratos_speAr wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 28 2012 23:47 Kaitlin wrote:
Don't underestimate the importance of the Medicaid part being struck down. States can "opt out" of the expanded Medicaid portion, and many States will. This will leave the "poor" in those States without coverage in those states. This will create a flood of poor into the more liberal states and will blow up their budgets.


How will it create a flood of poor people? They aren't going to just magically lift up and move to a better location. If they were capable of doing that they already would have.


If they have Health Care in one state, but not another, what do you think will happen ?
Signet
Profile Joined March 2007
United States1718 Posts
June 28 2012 14:52 GMT
#1031
On June 28 2012 23:35 inzaneone wrote:
My two cents for what is worth How could one of the justices that before she was a on the court. She worked for the govermanent arguing for Obamacare rule on this. Is this not a breech of ethics? If you think the government knows how to run or can run heath insurance. Think again as a veteran that goes through the VA for his medical. I can tell you that is the worst thing that they you could have. The only thing its good for is a annual physical and that it. If you are sick or need something good luck getting the treatment you need since it is always at least 2 weeks before you can get in to see a medical person.

That's not what this healthcare law does. The government won't be running our hospitals or creating a NHS. It will make sure everyone has private insurance. TRICARE Prime might be a closer analogy.
Stratos_speAr
Profile Joined May 2009
United States6959 Posts
June 28 2012 14:52 GMT
#1032
On June 28 2012 23:50 Kaitlin wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 28 2012 23:48 Stratos_speAr wrote:
On June 28 2012 23:47 Kaitlin wrote:
Don't underestimate the importance of the Medicaid part being struck down. States can "opt out" of the expanded Medicaid portion, and many States will. This will leave the "poor" in those States without coverage in those states. This will create a flood of poor into the more liberal states and will blow up their budgets.


How will it create a flood of poor people? They aren't going to just magically lift up and move to a better location. If they were capable of doing that they already would have.


If they have Health Care in one state, but not another, what do you think will happen ?


You are completely failing to understand how reality works. First off, it is incredibly difficult to move. You need money, time, and resources to uplift yourself (and very likely some family/dependents) from where you live and find another place to go. Second, you need to be able to actually find a place to live and work. Third, this means leaving your family, friends, community, and culture behind. Healthcare will definitely not prompt the masses to suddenly leave these states.
A sound mind in a sound body, is a short, but full description of a happy state in this World: he that has these two, has little more to wish for; and he that wants either of them, will be little the better for anything else.
Defacer
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Canada5052 Posts
June 28 2012 14:54 GMT
#1033
On June 28 2012 23:42 Stratos_speAr wrote:
"Construing the Commerce Clause to permit Congress to regulate individuals precisely because they are doing nothing would open a new and potentially vast domain to congressional authority. Congress already possesses expansive power to regulate what people do. Upholding the Affordable Care Act under the Commerce Clausewould give Congress the same license to regulate what people do notdo. The Framers knew the difference between doing something and doing nothing. They gave Congress the power to regulate commerce, not to compel it. Ignoring that distinction would undermine the principle that the Federal Government is a government of limited andenumerated powers. The individual mandate thus cannot be sustained under Congress’s power to “regulate Commerce.” Pp. 16–27."

Important paragraph from the written ruling. Fearmongerers, you can take a breath.

"(b)
Such an analysis suggests that the shared responsibilitypayment may for constitutional purposes be considered a tax. The payment is not so high that there is really no choice but to buy healthinsurance; the payment is not limited to willful violations, as penalties for unlawful acts often are; and the payment is collected solely by the IRS through the normal means of taxation. Cf. Bailey v. Drexel Furniture Co., 259 U. S. 20, 36–37. None of this is to say that payment is not intended to induce the purchase of health insurance. But the mandate need not be read to declare that failing to do so is unlawful. Neither the Affordable Care Act nor any other law attaches negative legal consequences to not buying health insurance, beyond requiring a payment to the IRS. And Congress’s choice of language—stating that individuals “shall” obtain insurance or pay a “penalty”—does not require reading §5000A as punishing unlawful conduct. It may also be read as imposing a tax on those who go without insurance. See New York v. United States, 505 U. S. 144, 169–174. Pp. 35–40."


Another important one explaining how it can be viewed as a tax.


Wow. Their rationalization for upholding the ACA seems ... rational.

Honestly, the partisan rhetoric, posturing and contortions from both parties during the election has made me so cynical, that seeing a thoughtful, reasonably objective argument of any position is a pleasant surprise!

XenOmega
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
Canada2822 Posts
June 28 2012 14:55 GMT
#1034
On June 28 2012 23:50 Kaitlin wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 28 2012 23:48 Stratos_speAr wrote:
On June 28 2012 23:47 Kaitlin wrote:
Don't underestimate the importance of the Medicaid part being struck down. States can "opt out" of the expanded Medicaid portion, and many States will. This will leave the "poor" in those States without coverage in those states. This will create a flood of poor into the more liberal states and will blow up their budgets.


How will it create a flood of poor people? They aren't going to just magically lift up and move to a better location. If they were capable of doing that they already would have.


If they have Health Care in one state, but not another, what do you think will happen ?



Then why doesn't those poors flooded into Canada?
jpak
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
United States5045 Posts
June 28 2012 14:56 GMT
#1035
On June 28 2012 23:55 XenOmega wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 28 2012 23:50 Kaitlin wrote:
On June 28 2012 23:48 Stratos_speAr wrote:
On June 28 2012 23:47 Kaitlin wrote:
Don't underestimate the importance of the Medicaid part being struck down. States can "opt out" of the expanded Medicaid portion, and many States will. This will leave the "poor" in those States without coverage in those states. This will create a flood of poor into the more liberal states and will blow up their budgets.


How will it create a flood of poor people? They aren't going to just magically lift up and move to a better location. If they were capable of doing that they already would have.


If they have Health Care in one state, but not another, what do you think will happen ?



Then why doesn't those poors flooded into Canada?


Because Canadians have beady little eyes, bobbing heads, and only one grand road going through it.
CJ Entusman #50! #1 클템 fan TL!
Defacer
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Canada5052 Posts
June 28 2012 14:57 GMT
#1036
On June 28 2012 23:55 XenOmega wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 28 2012 23:50 Kaitlin wrote:
On June 28 2012 23:48 Stratos_speAr wrote:
On June 28 2012 23:47 Kaitlin wrote:
Don't underestimate the importance of the Medicaid part being struck down. States can "opt out" of the expanded Medicaid portion, and many States will. This will leave the "poor" in those States without coverage in those states. This will create a flood of poor into the more liberal states and will blow up their budgets.


How will it create a flood of poor people? They aren't going to just magically lift up and move to a better location. If they were capable of doing that they already would have.


If they have Health Care in one state, but not another, what do you think will happen ?



Then why doesn't those poors flooded into Canada?


Every four years, I hear various American friends bitch and whine and say if so-and-so gets elected, they're moving to Canada.

It never happens.
Kaitlin
Profile Joined December 2010
United States2958 Posts
June 28 2012 14:57 GMT
#1037
On June 28 2012 23:52 Stratos_speAr wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 28 2012 23:50 Kaitlin wrote:
On June 28 2012 23:48 Stratos_speAr wrote:
On June 28 2012 23:47 Kaitlin wrote:
Don't underestimate the importance of the Medicaid part being struck down. States can "opt out" of the expanded Medicaid portion, and many States will. This will leave the "poor" in those States without coverage in those states. This will create a flood of poor into the more liberal states and will blow up their budgets.


How will it create a flood of poor people? They aren't going to just magically lift up and move to a better location. If they were capable of doing that they already would have.


If they have Health Care in one state, but not another, what do you think will happen ?


You are completely failing to understand how reality works. First off, it is incredibly difficult to move. You need money, time, and resources to uplift yourself (and very likely some family/dependents) from where you live and find another place to go. Second, you need to be able to actually find a place to live and work. Third, this means leaving your family, friends, community, and culture behind. Healthcare will definitely not prompt the masses to suddenly leave these states.


I'm sorry, perhaps I wasn't clear. The people on their way to liberal states won't be leaving any jobs behind, nor will they be seeking jobs in their new states. Only welfare and health care. It won't be any harder to relocate from state to state than it is to move from Mexico to the U.S., will it ?
rredtooth
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
5459 Posts
June 28 2012 15:00 GMT
#1038
On June 28 2012 23:57 Kaitlin wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 28 2012 23:52 Stratos_speAr wrote:
On June 28 2012 23:50 Kaitlin wrote:
On June 28 2012 23:48 Stratos_speAr wrote:
On June 28 2012 23:47 Kaitlin wrote:
Don't underestimate the importance of the Medicaid part being struck down. States can "opt out" of the expanded Medicaid portion, and many States will. This will leave the "poor" in those States without coverage in those states. This will create a flood of poor into the more liberal states and will blow up their budgets.


How will it create a flood of poor people? They aren't going to just magically lift up and move to a better location. If they were capable of doing that they already would have.


If they have Health Care in one state, but not another, what do you think will happen ?


You are completely failing to understand how reality works. First off, it is incredibly difficult to move. You need money, time, and resources to uplift yourself (and very likely some family/dependents) from where you live and find another place to go. Second, you need to be able to actually find a place to live and work. Third, this means leaving your family, friends, community, and culture behind. Healthcare will definitely not prompt the masses to suddenly leave these states.


I'm sorry, perhaps I wasn't clear. The people on their way to liberal states won't be leaving any jobs behind, nor will they be seeking jobs in their new states. Only welfare and health care. It won't be any harder to relocate from state to state than it is to move from Mexico to the U.S., will it ?

because every immigrant from mexico is leeching off of US welfare and not contributing to the workforce amiright?
[formerly sponsored by the artist formerly known as Gene]
Stratos_speAr
Profile Joined May 2009
United States6959 Posts
June 28 2012 15:01 GMT
#1039
On June 28 2012 23:57 Kaitlin wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 28 2012 23:52 Stratos_speAr wrote:
On June 28 2012 23:50 Kaitlin wrote:
On June 28 2012 23:48 Stratos_speAr wrote:
On June 28 2012 23:47 Kaitlin wrote:
Don't underestimate the importance of the Medicaid part being struck down. States can "opt out" of the expanded Medicaid portion, and many States will. This will leave the "poor" in those States without coverage in those states. This will create a flood of poor into the more liberal states and will blow up their budgets.


How will it create a flood of poor people? They aren't going to just magically lift up and move to a better location. If they were capable of doing that they already would have.


If they have Health Care in one state, but not another, what do you think will happen ?


You are completely failing to understand how reality works. First off, it is incredibly difficult to move. You need money, time, and resources to uplift yourself (and very likely some family/dependents) from where you live and find another place to go. Second, you need to be able to actually find a place to live and work. Third, this means leaving your family, friends, community, and culture behind. Healthcare will definitely not prompt the masses to suddenly leave these states.


I'm sorry, perhaps I wasn't clear. The people on their way to liberal states won't be leaving any jobs behind, nor will they be seeking jobs in their new states. Only welfare and health care. It won't be any harder to relocate from state to state than it is to move from Mexico to the U.S., will it ?


Yes, because an American that is just missing healthcare gains far less compares to what he or she loses by moving when compared to someone trying to move here from Mexico, especially since those people will more than likely be leaving jobs behind. Many (some could argue the majority of) people that need this healthcare and would consider moving are underemployed, not necessarily unemployed, and so that part-time employment is incredibly crucial to their well-being.
A sound mind in a sound body, is a short, but full description of a happy state in this World: he that has these two, has little more to wish for; and he that wants either of them, will be little the better for anything else.
Mohdoo
Profile Joined August 2007
United States15690 Posts
June 28 2012 15:02 GMT
#1040
Can't wait to hear what xDaunt has to say

Oh man, today is a good day. Obama has officially completely changed the country for the better. Government intervention into the lives of the American people has taken a huge step forward and I couldn't be happier. Conservatives can fight progress all they want, but in the end, it happens. Delay, delay, delay, but never make a lasting difference.
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