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Active: 7349 users

The Affordable Healthcare Act in the U.S. Supreme Court -…

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This topic is not about the American Invasion of Iraq. Stop. - Page 23
paralleluniverse
Profile Joined July 2010
4065 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-06-28 14:11:10
June 28 2012 14:10 GMT
#961
From SCOTUSBlog:

10:08

Amy Howe:
The individual mandate survives as a tax.
10:09

Amy Howe:
It's very complicated, so we're still figuring it out.
10:10

Kali:
We are still here. Don't worry.
10:10

Tom:
So the mandate is constitutional. Chief Justice Roberts joins the left of the Court.
ghost_403
Profile Joined September 2010
United States1825 Posts
June 28 2012 14:11 GMT
#962
Via scotusBlog
Tom: So the mandate is constitutional. Chief Justice Roberts joins the left of the Court.

Via CNN
Individual mandate struck down

Huh?
They say great science is built on the shoulders of giants. Not here. At Aperture, we do all our science from scratch, no hand holding. Step aside, REAL SCIENCE coming through.
xDaunt
Profile Joined March 2010
United States17988 Posts
June 28 2012 14:12 GMT
#963
Wow.
Derez
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
Netherlands6068 Posts
June 28 2012 14:12 GMT
#964
On June 28 2012 23:11 ghost_403 wrote:
Via scotusBlog
Show nested quote +
Tom: So the mandate is constitutional. Chief Justice Roberts joins the left of the Court.

Via CNN
Show nested quote +
Individual mandate struck down

Huh?

It will take 30 mins or so for everyone to figure it out. Just give it some time.
Signet
Profile Joined March 2007
United States1718 Posts
June 28 2012 14:13 GMT
#965
Wait the court REWROTE the mandate as a tax? Can they do that? That can't be right...
Defacer
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Canada5052 Posts
June 28 2012 14:13 GMT
#966
BOOM!

Take your healthcare and enjoy it, you stinking bastards!
paralleluniverse
Profile Joined July 2010
4065 Posts
June 28 2012 14:13 GMT
#967
On June 28 2012 23:12 xDaunt wrote:
Wow.

Well, you were dead wrong.

But even I'm surprised it survived. I thought it was unlikely to survive.

This is very good.
xDaunt
Profile Joined March 2010
United States17988 Posts
June 28 2012 14:14 GMT
#968
Someone give me a link to the opinion. Still not seeing it on the website.
ghost_403
Profile Joined September 2010
United States1825 Posts
June 28 2012 14:14 GMT
#969
BUT I HAVE TO KNOW

ghost_403 begins foaming at the mouth
They say great science is built on the shoulders of giants. Not here. At Aperture, we do all our science from scratch, no hand holding. Step aside, REAL SCIENCE coming through.
paralleluniverse
Profile Joined July 2010
4065 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-06-28 14:16:38
June 28 2012 14:14 GMT
#970
On June 28 2012 23:13 Defacer wrote:
BOOM!

Take your healthcare and enjoy it, you stinking bastards!

HAHAHAHA.

Yes, indeed. Welcome to the rest of the civilized world.

SCOTUSBlog:
10:13

Tom:
The bottom line: the entire ACA is upheld, with the exception that the federal government's power to terminate states' Medicaid funds is narrowly read.
Thorakh
Profile Joined April 2011
Netherlands1788 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-06-28 14:18:54
June 28 2012 14:15 GMT
#971
On June 28 2012 23:08 xDaunt wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 28 2012 23:06 paralleluniverse wrote:
On June 28 2012 23:03 xDaunt wrote:
On June 28 2012 22:51 paralleluniverse wrote:
On June 28 2012 21:43 BluePanther wrote:

It just sets a bad precedent, because if they find this legal, the next time they use this method it may not be on a product as useful to everyone.

Every other advanced country in the world has universal healthcare. So how bad is the precedent really?

As has been explained ad nauseum throughout the thread, this isn't just about healthcare. In fact, this case isn't really about healthcare at all.

I'm disagreeing with his argument which IS about healthcare, and in particular the precedent that it sets. If you don't want to argue about this point, then stop talking.

No, his argument is not about healthcare. Go re-read it again: "It just sets a bad precedent, because if they find this legal, the next time they use this method it may not be on a product as useful to everyone."
We in the Netherlands have to buy health insurance. Never has something been proposed that makes us buy a product that is not useful to everyone. You're just scare mongering.

Basic health insurance (which covers everything a person needs) costs me about €100/month which is about $125. How much does such insurance costs in the US?
DannyJ
Profile Joined March 2010
United States5110 Posts
June 28 2012 14:16 GMT
#972
Haha wow, it's been upheld? I totally didn't expect that.
Zergneedsfood
Profile Blog Joined September 2008
United States10671 Posts
June 28 2012 14:16 GMT
#973
Whoa.
/人◕ ‿‿ ◕人\ Make a contract with me and join TLADT | Onodera isn't actually a girl, she's just a doormat you walk over to get to the girl. - Numy 2015
xDaunt
Profile Joined March 2010
United States17988 Posts
June 28 2012 14:16 GMT
#974
On June 28 2012 23:15 Thorakh wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 28 2012 23:08 xDaunt wrote:
On June 28 2012 23:06 paralleluniverse wrote:
On June 28 2012 23:03 xDaunt wrote:
On June 28 2012 22:51 paralleluniverse wrote:
On June 28 2012 21:43 BluePanther wrote:

It just sets a bad precedent, because if they find this legal, the next time they use this method it may not be on a product as useful to everyone.

Every other advanced country in the world has universal healthcare. So how bad is the precedent really?

As has been explained ad nauseum throughout the thread, this isn't just about healthcare. In fact, this case isn't really about healthcare at all.

I'm disagreeing with his argument which IS about healthcare, and in particular the precedent that it sets. If you don't want to argue about this point, then stop talking.

No, his argument is not about healthcare. Go re-read it again: "It just sets a bad precedent, because if they find this legal, the next time they use this method it may not be on a product as useful to everyone."
We in the Netherlands have to buy health insurance. Never has something been proposed that makes us buy a product that is not useful to everyone. You're just scare mongering.

You're missing the point so badly that it is hilarious.
iamperfection
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States9649 Posts
June 28 2012 14:17 GMT
#975
IT will be intresting to see how they argue that the mandate can be viewed as a tax.

I'm guessing their is no exact definition of what a "tax" can be considered so thats where they found the wiggle room?
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=406168&currentpage=78#1551
xDaunt
Profile Joined March 2010
United States17988 Posts
June 28 2012 14:17 GMT
#976
I still haven't seen the opinion, but it looks like I was half right. The mandate did not survive under the commerce clause. It survived under Article I tax powers.
Derez
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
Netherlands6068 Posts
June 28 2012 14:18 GMT
#977
WSJ:

A quick overview of the ruling: A divided Supreme Court upheld the constitutionality of the Obama administration’s health-care law, in one of the most anticipated high-court rulings in a generation. The court said Congress was acting within its powers under the Constitution when it required most Americans to carry health insurance or pay a penalty—the provision at the center of the two-year legal battle. It upheld the mandate as a tax, in an opinion by Chief Justice John Roberts.


Time for the tea party to start marching on the white house.
paralleluniverse
Profile Joined July 2010
4065 Posts
June 28 2012 14:18 GMT
#978
On June 28 2012 23:16 xDaunt wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 28 2012 23:15 Thorakh wrote:
On June 28 2012 23:08 xDaunt wrote:
On June 28 2012 23:06 paralleluniverse wrote:
On June 28 2012 23:03 xDaunt wrote:
On June 28 2012 22:51 paralleluniverse wrote:
On June 28 2012 21:43 BluePanther wrote:

It just sets a bad precedent, because if they find this legal, the next time they use this method it may not be on a product as useful to everyone.

Every other advanced country in the world has universal healthcare. So how bad is the precedent really?

As has been explained ad nauseum throughout the thread, this isn't just about healthcare. In fact, this case isn't really about healthcare at all.

I'm disagreeing with his argument which IS about healthcare, and in particular the precedent that it sets. If you don't want to argue about this point, then stop talking.

No, his argument is not about healthcare. Go re-read it again: "It just sets a bad precedent, because if they find this legal, the next time they use this method it may not be on a product as useful to everyone."
We in the Netherlands have to buy health insurance. Never has something been proposed that makes us buy a product that is not useful to everyone. You're just scare mongering.

You're missing the point so badly that it is hilarious.

That is exactly the point. It's an argument about precedents. The argument wasn't based on whether it was constitutional or whether it's good public policy. The argument was that this is a slippery slope, but it's never been a slippery slope in any other country with universal coverage.
ghost_403
Profile Joined September 2010
United States1825 Posts
June 28 2012 14:18 GMT
#979
lol @ CNN for not having any idea of what's going on. NYT says upheld, 6-3, no links to the opinion as of yet AFAIK.
They say great science is built on the shoulders of giants. Not here. At Aperture, we do all our science from scratch, no hand holding. Step aside, REAL SCIENCE coming through.
Defacer
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Canada5052 Posts
June 28 2012 14:19 GMT
#980
On June 28 2012 23:15 Thorakh wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 28 2012 23:08 xDaunt wrote:
On June 28 2012 23:06 paralleluniverse wrote:
On June 28 2012 23:03 xDaunt wrote:
On June 28 2012 22:51 paralleluniverse wrote:
On June 28 2012 21:43 BluePanther wrote:

It just sets a bad precedent, because if they find this legal, the next time they use this method it may not be on a product as useful to everyone.

Every other advanced country in the world has universal healthcare. So how bad is the precedent really?

As has been explained ad nauseum throughout the thread, this isn't just about healthcare. In fact, this case isn't really about healthcare at all.

I'm disagreeing with his argument which IS about healthcare, and in particular the precedent that it sets. If you don't want to argue about this point, then stop talking.

No, his argument is not about healthcare. Go re-read it again: "It just sets a bad precedent, because if they find this legal, the next time they use this method it may not be on a product as useful to everyone."
We in the Netherlands have to buy health insurance. Never has something been proposed that makes us buy a product that is not useful to everyone. You're just scare mongering.


Only is in the US are people this paranoid and have this little faith in actual democracy and their government. Today they're making us by healthcare, tomorrow, they'll make us buy broccolli!

But seriously, when you follow American's politics long enough, it's hard not to be skeptical.

Anyway, I think even the though the individual mandate is a clunky mechanism of expanding the risk pool so that health insurers can provide better coverage, it's a step. The American Health Care system needs serious reform.

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