• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 18:40
CEST 00:40
KST 07:40
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL19] Ro4 Recap : The Peak5DreamHack Dallas 2025 - Info & Preview9herO wins GSL Code S Season 1 (2025)15Code S RO4 & Finals Preview: herO, GuMiho, Classic, Cure6Code S RO8 Preview: Classic, Reynor, Maru, GuMiho4
Community News
EWC 2025 Regional Qualifiers (May 28-June 1)7Weekly Cups (May 12-18): Clem sweeps WardiTV May3Code S Season 2 (2025) - Qualifier Results212025 GSL Season 2 (Qualifiers)14Code S Season 1 - Classic & GuMiho advance to RO4 (2025)4
StarCraft 2
General
Any reason why RuFF's stream is still on sidebar? DreamHack Dallas 2025 - Info & Preview Power Rank: October 2018 herO wins GSL Code S Season 1 (2025) Code S Season 2 (2025) - Qualifier Results
Tourneys
EWC 2025 Regional Qualifiers (May 28-June 1) [GSL 2025] Code S Season 1 - RO4 and Grand Finals RSL: Revival, a new crowdfunded tournament series DreamHack Dallas 2025 announced (May 23-25) SOOPer7s Showmatches 2025
Strategy
Simple Questions Simple Answers [G] PvT Cheese: 13 Gate Proxy Robo
Custom Maps
[UMS] Zillion Zerglings
External Content
Mutation # 474 Futile Resistance Mutation # 473 Cold is the Void Mutation # 472 Dead Heat Mutation # 471 Delivery Guaranteed
Brood War
General
[ASL19] Ro4 Recap : The Peak BGH auto balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ Artosis baned on twitch ? who is JiriKara /Cipisek/ from CZ Practice Partners (Official)
Tourneys
[ASL19] Semifinal B [Megathread] Daily Proleagues Small VOD Thread 2.0 [BSL20] GosuLeague RO16 - Tue & Wed 20:00+CET
Strategy
I am doing this better than progamers do. [G] How to get started on ladder as a new Z player
Other Games
General Games
Beyond All Reason What do you want from future RTS games? Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Grand Theft Auto VI Nintendo Switch Thread
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
LiquidLegends to reintegrate into TL.net
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Vanilla Mini Mafia TL Mafia Community Thread TL Mafia Plays: Diplomacy TL Mafia: Generative Agents Showdown Survivor II: The Amazon
Community
General
Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Trading/Investing Thread Men's Fashion Thread
Fan Clubs
Serral Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
[Manga] One Piece Movie Discussion! Anime Discussion Thread [Books] Wool by Hugh Howey
Sports
2024 - 2025 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion NHL Playoffs 2024 NBA General Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread Cleaning My Mechanical Keyboard How to clean a TTe Thermaltake keyboard?
TL Community
The Automated Ban List TL.net Ten Commandments
Blogs
Yes Sir! How Commanding Impr…
TrAiDoS
Poker
Nebuchad
Info SLEgma_12
SLEgma_12
SECOND COMMING
XenOsky
WombaT’s Old BW Terran Theme …
WombaT
Heero Yuy & the Tax…
KrillinFromwales
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 11281 users

The Affordable Healthcare Act in the U.S. Supreme Court -…

Forum Index > General Forum
Post a Reply
Prev 1 12 13 14 15 16 102 Next
This topic is not about the American Invasion of Iraq. Stop. - Page 23
Stratos_speAr
Profile Joined May 2009
United States6959 Posts
March 23 2012 20:59 GMT
#261
On March 24 2012 05:52 TATTOO wrote:

Show nested quote +
On March 24 2012 05:46 Stratos_speAr wrote:
On March 24 2012 05:44 TATTOO wrote:
On March 24 2012 05:22 WolfintheSheep wrote:
On March 24 2012 05:14 Lockitupv2 wrote:
On March 24 2012 04:51 WolfintheSheep wrote:
Worth noting that in many (most?) 1st world countries, the constitution is not a list of untouchable rights. In Canada and the UK, for example, the only unassailable right is the right to vote (and the requirement for governments to call elections). Everything else can be "violated" as long as the laws meet very, very strict guidelines.

Also, in Canada, health care is strictly provincial jurisdiction. However, we got around that through loophole abuse, essentially. The Federal government gives funding to each province, as long as they're meeting certain requirements with the health care program. That way, we have a fairly universal system across the country, and at the same time, a rich enough province can actually decide to go their own way, and forego Federal funding.


So you are okay with your rights being violated? And this is somehow an argument against the constitution?

UK doesnt even have free speech.

Your ignorance is astounding. The UK has freedom of speech.

And yes, I'm okay with rights being violated. Prison sentences are a violation of freedom of movement. Defamation laws are a violation of freedom of speech. Even in the United States, constitutional rights are violated on a daily basis for reasons that the vast majority of the population agree with.

+ Show Spoiler +


The way rights are designed in most representative republics is based around social contract theory. Rights are not actual forces they are ideas that are supported because we feel them to be good, neither hobbes or locke even attempted to argue ther existance in actuallity. the idea is that they are conditions for you which are legally endowned as long as you do not interfere with the rights of others. the only way one could believe your rights are being violated when being justly incarserated is if they felt their rights are godgiven not soley legal. you loose your right to your contructual rights when you violate the contract thus your rights are not being violated.


Actually Hobbes specifically wrote about the fact that in the state of nature (lack of society), you have a right to everything, and you enter into the social contract and give up your right to everything because it is in your best interest overall. Furthermore, both wrote about natural rights, which are separate and not given to you by law.

+ Show Spoiler +


yes but locke does not make a logical arguement for the existance of natural rights for obvious reasons, he argues for their existance based on the fact that it would be nice for them to exist. He does argue for them but, but he was not foolish enough to attempt to explain them with a logical foundation. It all depends on your own epistemological views of course, i personally do not believe that rights exist, but i do respect them because i feel their is much to be gained by doing do and that others around me ought to aswell.


And what about Hobbes' argument?
A sound mind in a sound body, is a short, but full description of a happy state in this World: he that has these two, has little more to wish for; and he that wants either of them, will be little the better for anything else.
Lockitupv2
Profile Joined March 2012
United States496 Posts
March 23 2012 21:00 GMT
#262
On March 24 2012 05:58 Stratos_speAr wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 24 2012 05:46 SnK-Arcbound wrote:
On March 24 2012 05:38 LittLeD wrote:
On March 23 2012 15:48 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
Medicare for every U.S citizen.

Quoted for truth. Medical care should be affordable and available for every citizen in every nation of the world.

How anyone can disagree with this is beyond me

Ignoring the fact that Medicare is 81 trillion dollars in debt, everyone "should" have any product is an opinion, and could be applied to anything. Everyone should have internet.

Also for SS it is 15 trillion dollars in debt, and the extra debt that was added to take care of all the baby boomers (1946-1964) has all been used up in the first year of baby boomers retiring.

Also prescription drug coverage is 20 trillion in the hole.

So let's create another subsidized government regulated national product. Hooray!


The difference between other products (even education) and healthcare is that healthcare is absolutely 100% necessary for life.

Yet somehow we are alive today even though healthcare hasnt always existed.
That's right folks, I definitely heard an ethnic twang in that voice, so everyone put your guesses on the screen. It's everyone's favorite game, it's Guess the Minority!!!
liberal
Profile Joined November 2011
1116 Posts
March 23 2012 21:01 GMT
#263
On March 24 2012 05:55 FT.aCt)Sony wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 24 2012 05:46 SnK-Arcbound wrote:
On March 24 2012 05:38 LittLeD wrote:
On March 23 2012 15:48 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
Medicare for every U.S citizen.

Quoted for truth. Medical care should be affordable and available for every citizen in every nation of the world.

How anyone can disagree with this is beyond me

Ignoring the fact that Medicare is 81 trillion dollars in debt, everyone "should" have any product is an opinion, and could be applied to anything. Everyone should have internet.

Also for SS it is 15 trillion dollars in debt, and the extra debt that was added to take care of all the baby boomers (1946-1964) has all been used up in the first year of baby boomers retiring.

Also prescription drug coverage is 20 trillion in the hole.

So let's create another subsidized government regulated national product. Hooray!


The national debt is around $15 trillion.

I think 20 trillion + 15 trillion + 20 trillion does not equal $15 trillion. I am not math major but I'm pretty sure I'm right here.

Unfunded liabilities are defined as "transfer payments" and so aren't counted in the national debt figures. Current unfunded liabilities exceeds $100 trillion. Which is why Americans are making a big deal about trying to cut entitlement spending, it will be necessary eventually.
Stratos_speAr
Profile Joined May 2009
United States6959 Posts
March 23 2012 21:02 GMT
#264
On March 24 2012 06:00 Lockitupv2 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 24 2012 05:58 Stratos_speAr wrote:
On March 24 2012 05:46 SnK-Arcbound wrote:
On March 24 2012 05:38 LittLeD wrote:
On March 23 2012 15:48 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
Medicare for every U.S citizen.

Quoted for truth. Medical care should be affordable and available for every citizen in every nation of the world.

How anyone can disagree with this is beyond me

Ignoring the fact that Medicare is 81 trillion dollars in debt, everyone "should" have any product is an opinion, and could be applied to anything. Everyone should have internet.

Also for SS it is 15 trillion dollars in debt, and the extra debt that was added to take care of all the baby boomers (1946-1964) has all been used up in the first year of baby boomers retiring.

Also prescription drug coverage is 20 trillion in the hole.

So let's create another subsidized government regulated national product. Hooray!


The difference between other products (even education) and healthcare is that healthcare is absolutely 100% necessary for life.

Yet somehow we are alive today even though healthcare hasnt always existed.


You deserve to be smacked across the face for how stupid this comment is. I mean really, can you possibly be serious?
A sound mind in a sound body, is a short, but full description of a happy state in this World: he that has these two, has little more to wish for; and he that wants either of them, will be little the better for anything else.
Lockitupv2
Profile Joined March 2012
United States496 Posts
March 23 2012 21:04 GMT
#265
On March 24 2012 06:02 Stratos_speAr wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 24 2012 06:00 Lockitupv2 wrote:
On March 24 2012 05:58 Stratos_speAr wrote:
On March 24 2012 05:46 SnK-Arcbound wrote:
On March 24 2012 05:38 LittLeD wrote:
On March 23 2012 15:48 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
Medicare for every U.S citizen.

Quoted for truth. Medical care should be affordable and available for every citizen in every nation of the world.

How anyone can disagree with this is beyond me

Ignoring the fact that Medicare is 81 trillion dollars in debt, everyone "should" have any product is an opinion, and could be applied to anything. Everyone should have internet.

Also for SS it is 15 trillion dollars in debt, and the extra debt that was added to take care of all the baby boomers (1946-1964) has all been used up in the first year of baby boomers retiring.

Also prescription drug coverage is 20 trillion in the hole.

So let's create another subsidized government regulated national product. Hooray!


The difference between other products (even education) and healthcare is that healthcare is absolutely 100% necessary for life.

Yet somehow we are alive today even though healthcare hasnt always existed.


You deserve to be smacked across the face for how stupid this comment is. I mean really, can you possibly be serious?

Says the guy who believes health care is needed for life.
That's right folks, I definitely heard an ethnic twang in that voice, so everyone put your guesses on the screen. It's everyone's favorite game, it's Guess the Minority!!!
TATTOO
Profile Joined June 2011
Canada33 Posts
March 23 2012 21:05 GMT
#266
On March 24 2012 05:59 Stratos_speAr wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 24 2012 05:52 TATTOO wrote:

On March 24 2012 05:46 Stratos_speAr wrote:
On March 24 2012 05:44 TATTOO wrote:
On March 24 2012 05:22 WolfintheSheep wrote:
On March 24 2012 05:14 Lockitupv2 wrote:
On March 24 2012 04:51 WolfintheSheep wrote:
Worth noting that in many (most?) 1st world countries, the constitution is not a list of untouchable rights. In Canada and the UK, for example, the only unassailable right is the right to vote (and the requirement for governments to call elections). Everything else can be "violated" as long as the laws meet very, very strict guidelines.

Also, in Canada, health care is strictly provincial jurisdiction. However, we got around that through loophole abuse, essentially. The Federal government gives funding to each province, as long as they're meeting certain requirements with the health care program. That way, we have a fairly universal system across the country, and at the same time, a rich enough province can actually decide to go their own way, and forego Federal funding.


So you are okay with your rights being violated? And this is somehow an argument against the constitution?

UK doesnt even have free speech.

Your ignorance is astounding. The UK has freedom of speech.

And yes, I'm okay with rights being violated. Prison sentences are a violation of freedom of movement. Defamation laws are a violation of freedom of speech. Even in the United States, constitutional rights are violated on a daily basis for reasons that the vast majority of the population agree with.

+ Show Spoiler +


The way rights are designed in most representative republics is based around social contract theory. Rights are not actual forces they are ideas that are supported because we feel them to be good, neither hobbes or locke even attempted to argue ther existance in actuallity. the idea is that they are conditions for you which are legally endowned as long as you do not interfere with the rights of others. the only way one could believe your rights are being violated when being justly incarserated is if they felt their rights are godgiven not soley legal. you loose your right to your contructual rights when you violate the contract thus your rights are not being violated.


Actually Hobbes specifically wrote about the fact that in the state of nature (lack of society), you have a right to everything, and you enter into the social contract and give up your right to everything because it is in your best interest overall. Furthermore, both wrote about natural rights, which are separate and not given to you by law.

+ Show Spoiler +


yes but locke does not make a logical arguement for the existance of natural rights for obvious reasons, he argues for their existance based on the fact that it would be nice for them to exist. He does argue for them but, but he was not foolish enough to attempt to explain them with a logical foundation. It all depends on your own epistemological views of course, i personally do not believe that rights exist, but i do respect them because i feel their is much to be gained by doing do and that others around me ought to aswell.


And what about Hobbes' argument?


the same point stands true. the state of liberty in the state of nature is limited to what you can do as a human being, your rights reach as far as your ability, you have the right to what you can have. HObbes view on natural rights is one in the same as lock in the sense that they are unable to make a concice logical arguement to support their existance.
SnK-Arcbound
Profile Joined March 2005
United States4423 Posts
March 23 2012 21:06 GMT
#267
On March 24 2012 05:58 Stratos_speAr wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 24 2012 05:46 SnK-Arcbound wrote:
On March 24 2012 05:38 LittLeD wrote:
On March 23 2012 15:48 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
Medicare for every U.S citizen.

Quoted for truth. Medical care should be affordable and available for every citizen in every nation of the world.

How anyone can disagree with this is beyond me

Ignoring the fact that Medicare is 81 trillion dollars in debt, everyone "should" have any product is an opinion, and could be applied to anything. Everyone should have internet.

Also for SS it is 15 trillion dollars in debt, and the extra debt that was added to take care of all the baby boomers (1946-1964) has all been used up in the first year of baby boomers retiring.

Also prescription drug coverage is 20 trillion in the hole.

So let's create another subsidized government regulated national product. Hooray!


The difference between other products (even education) and healthcare is that healthcare is absolutely 100% necessary for life.

No it isn't. Everything dies, and that isn't a violation of a right to life. You don't need products to live, even for one second. They prolong life, which has nothing to do with living. Someone can naturally die at 20 or 80 and you wouldn't say the 20 year old was denied their right to life. Life is life, not length of life, or quality. Here is the wikipedia definition of life http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Life. If you're going to argue that healthcare is necessary for life, you are arguing that any currently assumed living creature without healthcare isn't alive (trees, plants, animals, everything).
Stratos_speAr
Profile Joined May 2009
United States6959 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-03-23 21:16:43
March 23 2012 21:13 GMT
#268
On March 24 2012 06:04 Lockitupv2 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 24 2012 06:02 Stratos_speAr wrote:
On March 24 2012 06:00 Lockitupv2 wrote:
On March 24 2012 05:58 Stratos_speAr wrote:
On March 24 2012 05:46 SnK-Arcbound wrote:
On March 24 2012 05:38 LittLeD wrote:
On March 23 2012 15:48 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
Medicare for every U.S citizen.

Quoted for truth. Medical care should be affordable and available for every citizen in every nation of the world.

How anyone can disagree with this is beyond me

Ignoring the fact that Medicare is 81 trillion dollars in debt, everyone "should" have any product is an opinion, and could be applied to anything. Everyone should have internet.

Also for SS it is 15 trillion dollars in debt, and the extra debt that was added to take care of all the baby boomers (1946-1964) has all been used up in the first year of baby boomers retiring.

Also prescription drug coverage is 20 trillion in the hole.

So let's create another subsidized government regulated national product. Hooray!


The difference between other products (even education) and healthcare is that healthcare is absolutely 100% necessary for life.

Yet somehow we are alive today even though healthcare hasnt always existed.


You deserve to be smacked across the face for how stupid this comment is. I mean really, can you possibly be serious?

Says the guy who believes health care is needed for life.


How is it not? If you don't have it, you die or are permanently injured in a life-changing way from a wide variety of things. What, do you think that people just magically survive when they contract a horrible disease or are mauled by an animal?

Healthcare, in some form, has existed since humans have. I'm going to take a leap and assume you meant "universal healthcare hasn't always existed", since that makes you sound like you're actually saying something that makes sense.

True, universal healthcare hasn't always existed. And guess what? Countless people throughout human history have died or had their lives significantly worsened from diseases or injuries that could have been easily cured or treated if they merely had access to affordable healthcare. I don't know why you and conservatives across America want us to regress as a society, but most of the world wants to actually progress towards something better for all humanity.

Actually, I have a damn good guess as to why conservatives want this. It's so they can keep their cozy positions at the top of society and take advantage of the rest of the world like the greedy bastards that you all are.


No it isn't. Everything dies, and that isn't a violation of a right to life. You don't need products to live, even for one second. They prolong life, which has nothing to do with living. Someone can naturally die at 20 or 80 and you wouldn't say the 20 year old was denied their right to life. Life is life, not length of life, or quality. Here is the wikipedia definition of life http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Life. If you're going to argue that healthcare is necessary for life, you are arguing that any currently assumed living creature without healthcare isn't alive (trees, plants, animals, everything).


According to this logic it's ok for me to murder you because I'm not taking away your right to life. And yes, my wording was poor. Healthcare is necessary for continuing life, not for life to exist.

the same point stands true. the state of liberty in the state of nature is limited to what you can do as a human being, your rights reach as far as your ability, you have the right to what you can have. HObbes view on natural rights is one in the same as lock in the sense that they are unable to make a concice logical arguement to support their existance.


That's exactly the point. Your rights exist for whatever you are capable of, and that is what constitutes a right in the state of nature - whatever you can do. The government puts a limit on what you can do. Thus it takes away a natural right. I don't see how this isn't a logical argument. It's pretty simple and it's pretty logical.
A sound mind in a sound body, is a short, but full description of a happy state in this World: he that has these two, has little more to wish for; and he that wants either of them, will be little the better for anything else.
Mohdoo
Profile Joined August 2007
United States15478 Posts
March 23 2012 21:16 GMT
#269
On March 24 2012 06:06 SnK-Arcbound wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 24 2012 05:58 Stratos_speAr wrote:
On March 24 2012 05:46 SnK-Arcbound wrote:
On March 24 2012 05:38 LittLeD wrote:
On March 23 2012 15:48 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
Medicare for every U.S citizen.

Quoted for truth. Medical care should be affordable and available for every citizen in every nation of the world.

How anyone can disagree with this is beyond me

Ignoring the fact that Medicare is 81 trillion dollars in debt, everyone "should" have any product is an opinion, and could be applied to anything. Everyone should have internet.

Also for SS it is 15 trillion dollars in debt, and the extra debt that was added to take care of all the baby boomers (1946-1964) has all been used up in the first year of baby boomers retiring.

Also prescription drug coverage is 20 trillion in the hole.

So let's create another subsidized government regulated national product. Hooray!


The difference between other products (even education) and healthcare is that healthcare is absolutely 100% necessary for life.

No it isn't. Everything dies, and that isn't a violation of a right to life. You don't need products to live, even for one second. They prolong life, which has nothing to do with living. Someone can naturally die at 20 or 80 and you wouldn't say the 20 year old was denied their right to life. Life is life, not length of life, or quality. Here is the wikipedia definition of life http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Life. If you're going to argue that healthcare is necessary for life, you are arguing that any currently assumed living creature without healthcare isn't alive (trees, plants, animals, everything).


So humanity shouldn't have any sort of drive to improve and reach greater heights? A natural part of human existence is the pursuit of a better human experience. Why such low standards for where humanity should end up? Humanity is ambitious. We are always trying to reach higher, do more. Look at humanity 1000 years ago. What if everyone since then had hopes of humanity purely based on what we already had?
SuperPro
Profile Joined February 2012
99 Posts
March 23 2012 21:17 GMT
#270
Stop calling it Obamacare. I don't understand why everyone is so derogatory to President Obama.
dcemuser
Profile Joined August 2010
United States3248 Posts
March 23 2012 21:20 GMT
#271
It is constitutional (which is to be expected given the broadness of the wording of the constitution). Whether or not the Supreme Court will actually recognize that and whether or not the measure will actually help are different things.
TATTOO
Profile Joined June 2011
Canada33 Posts
March 23 2012 21:21 GMT
#272
On March 24 2012 06:13 Stratos_speAr wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 24 2012 06:04 Lockitupv2 wrote:
On March 24 2012 06:02 Stratos_speAr wrote:
On March 24 2012 06:00 Lockitupv2 wrote:
On March 24 2012 05:58 Stratos_speAr wrote:
On March 24 2012 05:46 SnK-Arcbound wrote:
On March 24 2012 05:38 LittLeD wrote:
On March 23 2012 15:48 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
Medicare for every U.S citizen.

Quoted for truth. Medical care should be affordable and available for every citizen in every nation of the world.

How anyone can disagree with this is beyond me

Ignoring the fact that Medicare is 81 trillion dollars in debt, everyone "should" have any product is an opinion, and could be applied to anything. Everyone should have internet.

Also for SS it is 15 trillion dollars in debt, and the extra debt that was added to take care of all the baby boomers (1946-1964) has all been used up in the first year of baby boomers retiring.

Also prescription drug coverage is 20 trillion in the hole.

So let's create another subsidized government regulated national product. Hooray!


The difference between other products (even education) and healthcare is that healthcare is absolutely 100% necessary for life.

Yet somehow we are alive today even though healthcare hasnt always existed.


You deserve to be smacked across the face for how stupid this comment is. I mean really, can you possibly be serious?

Says the guy who believes health care is needed for life.


How is it not? If you don't have it, you die or are permanently injured in a life-changing way from a wide variety of things. What, do you think that people just magically survive when they contract a horrible disease or are mauled by an animal?

Healthcare, in some form, has existed since humans have. I'm going to take a leap and assume you meant "universal healthcare hasn't always existed", since that makes you sound like you're actually saying something that makes sense.

True, universal healthcare hasn't always existed. And guess what? Countless people throughout human history have died or had their lives significantly worsened from diseases or injuries that could have been easily cured or treated if they merely had access to affordable healthcare. I don't know why you and conservatives across America want us to regress as a society, but most of the world wants to actually progress towards something better for all humanity.

Actually, I have a damn good guess as to why conservatives want this. It's so they can keep their cozy positions at the top of society and take advantage of the rest of the world like the greedy bastards that you all are.

Show nested quote +

No it isn't. Everything dies, and that isn't a violation of a right to life. You don't need products to live, even for one second. They prolong life, which has nothing to do with living. Someone can naturally die at 20 or 80 and you wouldn't say the 20 year old was denied their right to life. Life is life, not length of life, or quality. Here is the wikipedia definition of life http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Life. If you're going to argue that healthcare is necessary for life, you are arguing that any currently assumed living creature without healthcare isn't alive (trees, plants, animals, everything).


According to this logic it's ok for me to murder you because I'm not taking away your right to life. And yes, my wording was poor. Healthcare is necessary for continuing life, not for life to exist.

Show nested quote +
the same point stands true. the state of liberty in the state of nature is limited to what you can do as a human being, your rights reach as far as your ability, you have the right to what you can have. HObbes view on natural rights is one in the same as lock in the sense that they are unable to make a concice logical arguement to support their existance.


That's exactly the point. Your rights exist for whatever you are capable of, and that is what constitutes a right in the state of nature - whatever you can do. The government puts a limit on what you can do. Thus it takes away a natural right. I don't see how this isn't a logical argument. It's pretty simple and it's pretty logical.


nono ur right, its very logical to have rights in the way that they positively affect us. the point is that neither tried to argue that rights exisit in actuallity, and that humans by being humans do posses rights. humans have rights because we feel it is in line with our best sensibilities so we ought have them and enforce them. We do not enforce and defend them becuase we feel humans naturally posses them since one can not seem to give a logical arguement of why this may be the case, whether or not if its true.

dcemuser
Profile Joined August 2010
United States3248 Posts
March 23 2012 21:22 GMT
#273
On March 24 2012 06:17 SuperPro wrote:
Stop calling it Obamacare. I don't understand why everyone is so derogatory to President Obama.


Well they're derogatory because he's the President and people like pointing fingers.

As for the name, I hate it too, but just because I think it sounds stupid.
FryktSkyene
Profile Joined December 2010
United States1327 Posts
March 23 2012 21:23 GMT
#274
On March 24 2012 06:22 dcemuser wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 24 2012 06:17 SuperPro wrote:
Stop calling it Obamacare. I don't understand why everyone is so derogatory to President Obama.


Well they're derogatory because he's the President and people like pointing fingers.

As for the name, I hate it too, but just because I think it sounds stupid.


Its also shorter and easier to say than the actual name of the bill.
Snitches get stiches
Lockitupv2
Profile Joined March 2012
United States496 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-03-23 21:27:15
March 23 2012 21:25 GMT
#275
On March 24 2012 06:13 Stratos_speAr wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 24 2012 06:04 Lockitupv2 wrote:
On March 24 2012 06:02 Stratos_speAr wrote:
On March 24 2012 06:00 Lockitupv2 wrote:
On March 24 2012 05:58 Stratos_speAr wrote:
On March 24 2012 05:46 SnK-Arcbound wrote:
On March 24 2012 05:38 LittLeD wrote:
On March 23 2012 15:48 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
Medicare for every U.S citizen.

Quoted for truth. Medical care should be affordable and available for every citizen in every nation of the world.

How anyone can disagree with this is beyond me

Ignoring the fact that Medicare is 81 trillion dollars in debt, everyone "should" have any product is an opinion, and could be applied to anything. Everyone should have internet.

Also for SS it is 15 trillion dollars in debt, and the extra debt that was added to take care of all the baby boomers (1946-1964) has all been used up in the first year of baby boomers retiring.

Also prescription drug coverage is 20 trillion in the hole.

So let's create another subsidized government regulated national product. Hooray!


The difference between other products (even education) and healthcare is that healthcare is absolutely 100% necessary for life.

Yet somehow we are alive today even though healthcare hasnt always existed.


You deserve to be smacked across the face for how stupid this comment is. I mean really, can you possibly be serious?

Says the guy who believes health care is needed for life.


How is it not? If you don't have it, you die or are permanently injured in a life-changing way from a wide variety of things. What, do you think that people just magically survive when they contract a horrible disease or are mauled by an animal?

Healthcare, in some form, has existed since humans have. I'm going to take a leap and assume you meant "universal healthcare hasn't always existed", since that makes you sound like you're actually saying something that makes sense.

True, universal healthcare hasn't always existed. And guess what? Countless people throughout human history have died or had their lives significantly worsened from diseases or injuries that could have been easily cured or treated if they merely had access to affordable healthcare. I don't know why you and conservatives across America want us to regress as a society, but most of the world wants to actually progress towards something better for all humanity.

Actually, I have a damn good guess as to why conservatives want this. It's so they can keep their cozy positions at the top of society and take advantage of the rest of the world like the greedy bastards that you all are.

Show nested quote +

No it isn't. Everything dies, and that isn't a violation of a right to life. You don't need products to live, even for one second. They prolong life, which has nothing to do with living. Someone can naturally die at 20 or 80 and you wouldn't say the 20 year old was denied their right to life. Life is life, not length of life, or quality. Here is the wikipedia definition of life http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Life. If you're going to argue that healthcare is necessary for life, you are arguing that any currently assumed living creature without healthcare isn't alive (trees, plants, animals, everything).


According to this logic it's ok for me to murder you because I'm not taking away your right to life. And yes, my wording was poor. Healthcare is necessary for continuing life, not for life to exist.

Show nested quote +
the same point stands true. the state of liberty in the state of nature is limited to what you can do as a human being, your rights reach as far as your ability, you have the right to what you can have. HObbes view on natural rights is one in the same as lock in the sense that they are unable to make a concice logical arguement to support their existance.


That's exactly the point. Your rights exist for whatever you are capable of, and that is what constitutes a right in the state of nature - whatever you can do. The government puts a limit on what you can do. Thus it takes away a natural right. I don't see how this isn't a logical argument. It's pretty simple and it's pretty logical.

Health care isn't need to continue life. You can use it to keep people from dying, your prolonging a persons life. But if all forms of healthcare were whipped out, we wouldn't all die.

Conservatives are only at the top? Really?
That's right folks, I definitely heard an ethnic twang in that voice, so everyone put your guesses on the screen. It's everyone's favorite game, it's Guess the Minority!!!
Stratos_speAr
Profile Joined May 2009
United States6959 Posts
March 23 2012 21:31 GMT
#276
On March 24 2012 06:25 Lockitupv2 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 24 2012 06:13 Stratos_speAr wrote:
On March 24 2012 06:04 Lockitupv2 wrote:
On March 24 2012 06:02 Stratos_speAr wrote:
On March 24 2012 06:00 Lockitupv2 wrote:
On March 24 2012 05:58 Stratos_speAr wrote:
On March 24 2012 05:46 SnK-Arcbound wrote:
On March 24 2012 05:38 LittLeD wrote:
On March 23 2012 15:48 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
Medicare for every U.S citizen.

Quoted for truth. Medical care should be affordable and available for every citizen in every nation of the world.

How anyone can disagree with this is beyond me

Ignoring the fact that Medicare is 81 trillion dollars in debt, everyone "should" have any product is an opinion, and could be applied to anything. Everyone should have internet.

Also for SS it is 15 trillion dollars in debt, and the extra debt that was added to take care of all the baby boomers (1946-1964) has all been used up in the first year of baby boomers retiring.

Also prescription drug coverage is 20 trillion in the hole.

So let's create another subsidized government regulated national product. Hooray!


The difference between other products (even education) and healthcare is that healthcare is absolutely 100% necessary for life.

Yet somehow we are alive today even though healthcare hasnt always existed.


You deserve to be smacked across the face for how stupid this comment is. I mean really, can you possibly be serious?

Says the guy who believes health care is needed for life.


How is it not? If you don't have it, you die or are permanently injured in a life-changing way from a wide variety of things. What, do you think that people just magically survive when they contract a horrible disease or are mauled by an animal?

Healthcare, in some form, has existed since humans have. I'm going to take a leap and assume you meant "universal healthcare hasn't always existed", since that makes you sound like you're actually saying something that makes sense.

True, universal healthcare hasn't always existed. And guess what? Countless people throughout human history have died or had their lives significantly worsened from diseases or injuries that could have been easily cured or treated if they merely had access to affordable healthcare. I don't know why you and conservatives across America want us to regress as a society, but most of the world wants to actually progress towards something better for all humanity.

Actually, I have a damn good guess as to why conservatives want this. It's so they can keep their cozy positions at the top of society and take advantage of the rest of the world like the greedy bastards that you all are.


No it isn't. Everything dies, and that isn't a violation of a right to life. You don't need products to live, even for one second. They prolong life, which has nothing to do with living. Someone can naturally die at 20 or 80 and you wouldn't say the 20 year old was denied their right to life. Life is life, not length of life, or quality. Here is the wikipedia definition of life http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Life. If you're going to argue that healthcare is necessary for life, you are arguing that any currently assumed living creature without healthcare isn't alive (trees, plants, animals, everything).


According to this logic it's ok for me to murder you because I'm not taking away your right to life. And yes, my wording was poor. Healthcare is necessary for continuing life, not for life to exist.

the same point stands true. the state of liberty in the state of nature is limited to what you can do as a human being, your rights reach as far as your ability, you have the right to what you can have. HObbes view on natural rights is one in the same as lock in the sense that they are unable to make a concice logical arguement to support their existance.


That's exactly the point. Your rights exist for whatever you are capable of, and that is what constitutes a right in the state of nature - whatever you can do. The government puts a limit on what you can do. Thus it takes away a natural right. I don't see how this isn't a logical argument. It's pretty simple and it's pretty logical.

Health care isn't need to continue life. You can use it to keep people from dying, your prolonging a persons life. But if all forms of healthcare were whipped out, we wouldn't all die.

Conservatives are only at the top? Really?


Either we have very different definitions of what healthcare is, or you are delusional.

If you went back in human history and removed all types of healthcare that have ever existed, do you really think humanity would be alive today?

And stop with the logical fallacies. They make you sound like a prick. I never said that conservatives were only at the top.
A sound mind in a sound body, is a short, but full description of a happy state in this World: he that has these two, has little more to wish for; and he that wants either of them, will be little the better for anything else.
liberal
Profile Joined November 2011
1116 Posts
March 23 2012 21:37 GMT
#277
On March 24 2012 06:17 SuperPro wrote:
Stop calling it Obamacare. I don't understand why everyone is so derogatory to President Obama.

I don't understand how it's derogatory? He campaigned on it, pushed for it, and signed it into law, and it's easier to say then the Affordable Care Act. Why are people so bothered by the term?
Lockitupv2
Profile Joined March 2012
United States496 Posts
March 23 2012 21:41 GMT
#278
On March 24 2012 06:31 Stratos_speAr wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 24 2012 06:25 Lockitupv2 wrote:
On March 24 2012 06:13 Stratos_speAr wrote:
On March 24 2012 06:04 Lockitupv2 wrote:
On March 24 2012 06:02 Stratos_speAr wrote:
On March 24 2012 06:00 Lockitupv2 wrote:
On March 24 2012 05:58 Stratos_speAr wrote:
On March 24 2012 05:46 SnK-Arcbound wrote:
On March 24 2012 05:38 LittLeD wrote:
On March 23 2012 15:48 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
Medicare for every U.S citizen.

Quoted for truth. Medical care should be affordable and available for every citizen in every nation of the world.

How anyone can disagree with this is beyond me

Ignoring the fact that Medicare is 81 trillion dollars in debt, everyone "should" have any product is an opinion, and could be applied to anything. Everyone should have internet.

Also for SS it is 15 trillion dollars in debt, and the extra debt that was added to take care of all the baby boomers (1946-1964) has all been used up in the first year of baby boomers retiring.

Also prescription drug coverage is 20 trillion in the hole.

So let's create another subsidized government regulated national product. Hooray!


The difference between other products (even education) and healthcare is that healthcare is absolutely 100% necessary for life.

Yet somehow we are alive today even though healthcare hasnt always existed.


You deserve to be smacked across the face for how stupid this comment is. I mean really, can you possibly be serious?

Says the guy who believes health care is needed for life.


How is it not? If you don't have it, you die or are permanently injured in a life-changing way from a wide variety of things. What, do you think that people just magically survive when they contract a horrible disease or are mauled by an animal?

Healthcare, in some form, has existed since humans have. I'm going to take a leap and assume you meant "universal healthcare hasn't always existed", since that makes you sound like you're actually saying something that makes sense.

True, universal healthcare hasn't always existed. And guess what? Countless people throughout human history have died or had their lives significantly worsened from diseases or injuries that could have been easily cured or treated if they merely had access to affordable healthcare. I don't know why you and conservatives across America want us to regress as a society, but most of the world wants to actually progress towards something better for all humanity.

Actually, I have a damn good guess as to why conservatives want this. It's so they can keep their cozy positions at the top of society and take advantage of the rest of the world like the greedy bastards that you all are.


No it isn't. Everything dies, and that isn't a violation of a right to life. You don't need products to live, even for one second. They prolong life, which has nothing to do with living. Someone can naturally die at 20 or 80 and you wouldn't say the 20 year old was denied their right to life. Life is life, not length of life, or quality. Here is the wikipedia definition of life http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Life. If you're going to argue that healthcare is necessary for life, you are arguing that any currently assumed living creature without healthcare isn't alive (trees, plants, animals, everything).


According to this logic it's ok for me to murder you because I'm not taking away your right to life. And yes, my wording was poor. Healthcare is necessary for continuing life, not for life to exist.

the same point stands true. the state of liberty in the state of nature is limited to what you can do as a human being, your rights reach as far as your ability, you have the right to what you can have. HObbes view on natural rights is one in the same as lock in the sense that they are unable to make a concice logical arguement to support their existance.


That's exactly the point. Your rights exist for whatever you are capable of, and that is what constitutes a right in the state of nature - whatever you can do. The government puts a limit on what you can do. Thus it takes away a natural right. I don't see how this isn't a logical argument. It's pretty simple and it's pretty logical.

Health care isn't need to continue life. You can use it to keep people from dying, your prolonging a persons life. But if all forms of healthcare were whipped out, we wouldn't all die.

Conservatives are only at the top? Really?


Either we have very different definitions of what healthcare is, or you are delusional.

If you went back in human history and removed all types of healthcare that have ever existed, do you really think humanity would be alive today?

And stop with the logical fallacies. They make you sound like a prick. I never said that conservatives were only at the top.

"Actually, I have a damn good guess as to why conservatives want this. It's so they can keep their cozy positions at the top of society and take advantage of the rest of the world like the greedy bastards that you all are."

Using the wiki definition which I agree with "Health care (or healthcare) is the diagnosis, treatment, and prevention of disease, illness, injury, and other physical and mental impairments in humans.' whats yours?

Humans would absolutely be alive without healthcare. How is that a fallacy?
That's right folks, I definitely heard an ethnic twang in that voice, so everyone put your guesses on the screen. It's everyone's favorite game, it's Guess the Minority!!!
WolfintheSheep
Profile Joined June 2011
Canada14127 Posts
March 23 2012 21:42 GMT
#279
On March 24 2012 06:37 liberal wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 24 2012 06:17 SuperPro wrote:
Stop calling it Obamacare. I don't understand why everyone is so derogatory to President Obama.

I don't understand how it's derogatory? He campaigned on it, pushed for it, and signed it into law, and it's easier to say then the Affordable Care Act. Why are people so bothered by the term?

There's an annoying trend for Americans to nickname everything. "Totmom", "_____gate", "Obamacare". Call it personal annoyance, but I can't stand how the media attaches some tacky name onto everything.
Average means I'm better than half of you.
seppolevne
Profile Blog Joined February 2009
Canada1681 Posts
March 23 2012 21:48 GMT
#280
On March 24 2012 06:41 Lockitupv2 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 24 2012 06:31 Stratos_speAr wrote:
On March 24 2012 06:25 Lockitupv2 wrote:
On March 24 2012 06:13 Stratos_speAr wrote:
On March 24 2012 06:04 Lockitupv2 wrote:
On March 24 2012 06:02 Stratos_speAr wrote:
On March 24 2012 06:00 Lockitupv2 wrote:
On March 24 2012 05:58 Stratos_speAr wrote:
On March 24 2012 05:46 SnK-Arcbound wrote:
On March 24 2012 05:38 LittLeD wrote:
[quote]
Quoted for truth. Medical care should be affordable and available for every citizen in every nation of the world.

How anyone can disagree with this is beyond me

Ignoring the fact that Medicare is 81 trillion dollars in debt, everyone "should" have any product is an opinion, and could be applied to anything. Everyone should have internet.

Also for SS it is 15 trillion dollars in debt, and the extra debt that was added to take care of all the baby boomers (1946-1964) has all been used up in the first year of baby boomers retiring.

Also prescription drug coverage is 20 trillion in the hole.

So let's create another subsidized government regulated national product. Hooray!


The difference between other products (even education) and healthcare is that healthcare is absolutely 100% necessary for life.

Yet somehow we are alive today even though healthcare hasnt always existed.


You deserve to be smacked across the face for how stupid this comment is. I mean really, can you possibly be serious?

Says the guy who believes health care is needed for life.


How is it not? If you don't have it, you die or are permanently injured in a life-changing way from a wide variety of things. What, do you think that people just magically survive when they contract a horrible disease or are mauled by an animal?

Healthcare, in some form, has existed since humans have. I'm going to take a leap and assume you meant "universal healthcare hasn't always existed", since that makes you sound like you're actually saying something that makes sense.

True, universal healthcare hasn't always existed. And guess what? Countless people throughout human history have died or had their lives significantly worsened from diseases or injuries that could have been easily cured or treated if they merely had access to affordable healthcare. I don't know why you and conservatives across America want us to regress as a society, but most of the world wants to actually progress towards something better for all humanity.

Actually, I have a damn good guess as to why conservatives want this. It's so they can keep their cozy positions at the top of society and take advantage of the rest of the world like the greedy bastards that you all are.


No it isn't. Everything dies, and that isn't a violation of a right to life. You don't need products to live, even for one second. They prolong life, which has nothing to do with living. Someone can naturally die at 20 or 80 and you wouldn't say the 20 year old was denied their right to life. Life is life, not length of life, or quality. Here is the wikipedia definition of life http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Life. If you're going to argue that healthcare is necessary for life, you are arguing that any currently assumed living creature without healthcare isn't alive (trees, plants, animals, everything).


According to this logic it's ok for me to murder you because I'm not taking away your right to life. And yes, my wording was poor. Healthcare is necessary for continuing life, not for life to exist.

the same point stands true. the state of liberty in the state of nature is limited to what you can do as a human being, your rights reach as far as your ability, you have the right to what you can have. HObbes view on natural rights is one in the same as lock in the sense that they are unable to make a concice logical arguement to support their existance.


That's exactly the point. Your rights exist for whatever you are capable of, and that is what constitutes a right in the state of nature - whatever you can do. The government puts a limit on what you can do. Thus it takes away a natural right. I don't see how this isn't a logical argument. It's pretty simple and it's pretty logical.

Health care isn't need to continue life. You can use it to keep people from dying, your prolonging a persons life. But if all forms of healthcare were whipped out, we wouldn't all die.

Conservatives are only at the top? Really?


Either we have very different definitions of what healthcare is, or you are delusional.

If you went back in human history and removed all types of healthcare that have ever existed, do you really think humanity would be alive today?

And stop with the logical fallacies. They make you sound like a prick. I never said that conservatives were only at the top.

"Actually, I have a damn good guess as to why conservatives want this. It's so they can keep their cozy positions at the top of society and take advantage of the rest of the world like the greedy bastards that you all are."

Using the wiki definition which I agree with "Health care (or healthcare) is the diagnosis, treatment, and prevention of disease, illness, injury, and other physical and mental impairments in humans.' whats yours?

Humans would absolutely be alive without healthcare. How is that a fallacy?

If we never figured out bathing we would be fucked.

The government requires that people do things that could leave them unhealthy, it is its duty to do the best it can to make sure they're not.
J- Pirate Udyr WW T- Pirate Riven Galio M- Galio Annie S- Sona Lux -- Always farm, never carry.
Prev 1 12 13 14 15 16 102 Next
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 1h 20m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
Livibee 236
JuggernautJason137
CosmosSc2 20
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 11261
Dewaltoss 137
NaDa 21
League of Legends
Trikslyr58
Counter-Strike
Foxcn633
Fnx 462
flusha415
Super Smash Bros
hungrybox549
C9.Mang0176
AZ_Axe96
Heroes of the Storm
Liquid`Hasu371
Khaldor132
Other Games
summit1g7764
tarik_tv6600
Grubby3014
shahzam410
ZombieGrub97
ViBE45
RuFF_SC231
Organizations
Other Games
BasetradeTV164
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 21 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Hupsaiya 100
• StrangeGG 55
• davetesta33
• musti20045 32
• Kozan
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• sooper7s
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Migwel
• IndyKCrew
StarCraft: Brood War
• Diggity23
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
Dota 2
• WagamamaTV291
• Ler43
League of Legends
• Doublelift7360
• TFBlade1233
Other Games
• Scarra1742
• imaqtpie1597
Upcoming Events
Replay Cast
1h 20m
OSC
1h 20m
Replay Cast
11h 20m
Road to EWC
16h 20m
Replay Cast
1d 11h
SC Evo League
1d 13h
Road to EWC
1d 16h
Afreeca Starleague
2 days
BeSt vs Soulkey
Road to EWC
2 days
Wardi Open
3 days
[ Show More ]
SOOP
4 days
NightMare vs Wayne
Replay Cast
4 days
Replay Cast
5 days
GSL Code S
5 days
Cure vs Zoun
Solar vs Creator
The PondCast
5 days
Online Event
5 days
Clem vs ShoWTimE
herO vs MaxPax
GSL Code S
6 days
GuMiho vs Bunny
ByuN vs SHIN
Online Event
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2025-05-16
2025 GSL S1
Calamity Stars S2

Ongoing

JPL Season 2
ASL Season 19
YSL S1
BSL 2v2 Season 3
BSL Season 20
China & Korea Top Challenge
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 2
NPSL S3
Heroes 10 EU
ESL Impact League Season 7
IEM Dallas 2025
PGL Astana 2025
Asian Champions League '25
ECL Season 49: Europe
BLAST Rivals Spring 2025
MESA Nomadic Masters
CCT Season 2 Global Finals
IEM Melbourne 2025
YaLLa Compass Qatar 2025
PGL Bucharest 2025
BLAST Open Spring 2025
ESL Pro League S21

Upcoming

Rose Open S1
Copa Latinoamericana 4
CSLPRO Last Chance 2025
CSLAN 2025
K-Championship
SEL Season 2 Championship
Esports World Cup 2025
HSC XXVII
Championship of Russia 2025
Bellum Gens Elite Stara Zagora 2025
2025 GSL S2
DreamHack Dallas 2025
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1
BLAST.tv Austin Major 2025
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.