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On May 02 2012 19:00 Biff The Understudy wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2012 18:58 Geiko wrote:On May 02 2012 18:34 Biff The Understudy wrote:
Lepénisation des esprits, they said. Thanks for Sarko and his crew of criminals to have helped a lot to make France a more closed minded, racist and conservative country. And yes, the FN is a very very racist party, in case you doubt about it. 2007 : Le Pen scores 10%, people say "Sarkozy has taken an ultra right turn and has stolen all the voters from the FN because he talks like Le Pen does" 2012 : Le Pen scores 18%, people say "Sarkozy has taken an ultra rigth turn and is responsable for the rise of the FN 2002 : Sarkozy wasn't in the political scene and FN scores 16% Ultra Right wing ideas and their popularity are not caused by Sarkozy, stop blaming him for everything. No Sarlozy got elected by adopting the discourse of Le Pen and making it legitimate. It worked once. Now we pay the consequences: Le Pen is higher than ever, and the bridge between right and far right are blown up.
Le Pen was at 16% in 2002, now it's 18% right after a crisis, I don't see anything wrong with this.
Is Hollande responsible for the Ultra Left Wing being so high in France ?
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On May 02 2012 19:07 Boblion wrote:
I don't really think that the average FDG/NPA voter is really smarter than those of the FN tbh.
They have even more ressentiment lol.
Wow.
Yeah, believing in somewhat idealist social justice is more resentful and stupid than being a racist and blaming islam and immigrants for everything.
Well, Boblion, sorry to tell you, but that's sickening. Anyway, I'm gone from this thread.
On May 02 2012 19:07 Geiko wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2012 19:00 Biff The Understudy wrote:On May 02 2012 18:58 Geiko wrote:On May 02 2012 18:34 Biff The Understudy wrote:
Lepénisation des esprits, they said. Thanks for Sarko and his crew of criminals to have helped a lot to make France a more closed minded, racist and conservative country. And yes, the FN is a very very racist party, in case you doubt about it. 2007 : Le Pen scores 10%, people say "Sarkozy has taken an ultra right turn and has stolen all the voters from the FN because he talks like Le Pen does" 2012 : Le Pen scores 18%, people say "Sarkozy has taken an ultra rigth turn and is responsable for the rise of the FN 2002 : Sarkozy wasn't in the political scene and FN scores 16% Ultra Right wing ideas and their popularity are not caused by Sarkozy, stop blaming him for everything. No Sarlozy got elected by adopting the discourse of Le Pen and making it legitimate. It worked once. Now we pay the consequences: Le Pen is higher than ever, and the bridge between right and far right are blown up. Le Pen was at 16% in 2002, now it's 18% right after a crisis, I don't see anything wrong with this. Is Hollande responsible for the Ultra Left Wing being so high in France ?
Melenchon is certainly not ultra left wing. He has the position of the socialist party 30 years ago. Ultra left (Poutou Artaud and the trotskist nuts etc...) is extremely low.
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On May 02 2012 19:13 Biff The Understudy wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2012 19:07 Boblion wrote:
I don't really think that the average FDG/NPA voter is really smarter than those of the FN tbh.
They have even more ressentiment lol. Wow. Yeah, believing in somewhat idealist social justice is more resentful and stupid than being a racist and blaming islam and immigrants for everything. Well, Boblion, sorry to tell you, but that's sickening. Anyway, I'm gone from this thread. Show nested quote +On May 02 2012 19:07 Geiko wrote:On May 02 2012 19:00 Biff The Understudy wrote:On May 02 2012 18:58 Geiko wrote:On May 02 2012 18:34 Biff The Understudy wrote:
Lepénisation des esprits, they said. Thanks for Sarko and his crew of criminals to have helped a lot to make France a more closed minded, racist and conservative country. And yes, the FN is a very very racist party, in case you doubt about it. 2007 : Le Pen scores 10%, people say "Sarkozy has taken an ultra right turn and has stolen all the voters from the FN because he talks like Le Pen does" 2012 : Le Pen scores 18%, people say "Sarkozy has taken an ultra rigth turn and is responsable for the rise of the FN 2002 : Sarkozy wasn't in the political scene and FN scores 16% Ultra Right wing ideas and their popularity are not caused by Sarkozy, stop blaming him for everything. No Sarlozy got elected by adopting the discourse of Le Pen and making it legitimate. It worked once. Now we pay the consequences: Le Pen is higher than ever, and the bridge between right and far right are blown up. Le Pen was at 16% in 2002, now it's 18% right after a crisis, I don't see anything wrong with this. Is Hollande responsible for the Ultra Left Wing being so high in France ? Melenchon is certainly not ultra left wing. He has the position of the socialist party 30 years ago. Ultra left (Poutou Artaud and the trotskist nuts etc...) is extremely low.
Mélanchon is not ultra left wing ?
It's not ultra left wing to have URSS flags at ALL his meetings ?
Imagine what would have happened if there had been flags from the Thrid Reich at Le Pen's meetings...
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On May 02 2012 19:19 Geiko wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2012 19:13 Biff The Understudy wrote:On May 02 2012 19:07 Boblion wrote:
I don't really think that the average FDG/NPA voter is really smarter than those of the FN tbh.
They have even more ressentiment lol. Wow. Yeah, believing in somewhat idealist social justice is more resentful and stupid than being a racist and blaming islam and immigrants for everything. Well, Boblion, sorry to tell you, but that's sickening. Anyway, I'm gone from this thread. On May 02 2012 19:07 Geiko wrote:On May 02 2012 19:00 Biff The Understudy wrote:On May 02 2012 18:58 Geiko wrote:On May 02 2012 18:34 Biff The Understudy wrote:
Lepénisation des esprits, they said. Thanks for Sarko and his crew of criminals to have helped a lot to make France a more closed minded, racist and conservative country. And yes, the FN is a very very racist party, in case you doubt about it. 2007 : Le Pen scores 10%, people say "Sarkozy has taken an ultra right turn and has stolen all the voters from the FN because he talks like Le Pen does" 2012 : Le Pen scores 18%, people say "Sarkozy has taken an ultra rigth turn and is responsable for the rise of the FN 2002 : Sarkozy wasn't in the political scene and FN scores 16% Ultra Right wing ideas and their popularity are not caused by Sarkozy, stop blaming him for everything. No Sarlozy got elected by adopting the discourse of Le Pen and making it legitimate. It worked once. Now we pay the consequences: Le Pen is higher than ever, and the bridge between right and far right are blown up. Le Pen was at 16% in 2002, now it's 18% right after a crisis, I don't see anything wrong with this. Is Hollande responsible for the Ultra Left Wing being so high in France ? Melenchon is certainly not ultra left wing. He has the position of the socialist party 30 years ago. Ultra left (Poutou Artaud and the trotskist nuts etc...) is extremely low. Mélanchon is not ultra left wing ? It's not ultra left wing to have URSS flags at ALL his meetings ? Imagine what would have happened if there had been flags from the Thrid Reich at Le Pen's meetings...
Haven't seen a single USSR flag in any of his meeting. Have seen communist flags with the sickle and the hammer because Communist party is part of his party. Jospin and Mitterand were allied with the PCF and I don't see what is the proiblem with that or how it relates to Hitler or USSR? Nice Godwin btw.
FDG has a marxist ideological basis. That doesn't make it an "extreme" party. Mitterand's 1981 program had a very marxist tone too. He didn't transform France into Stalinist Russia as far as I know.
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On May 02 2012 19:29 Biff The Understudy wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2012 19:19 Geiko wrote:On May 02 2012 19:13 Biff The Understudy wrote:On May 02 2012 19:07 Boblion wrote:
I don't really think that the average FDG/NPA voter is really smarter than those of the FN tbh.
They have even more ressentiment lol. Wow. Yeah, believing in somewhat idealist social justice is more resentful and stupid than being a racist and blaming islam and immigrants for everything. Well, Boblion, sorry to tell you, but that's sickening. Anyway, I'm gone from this thread. On May 02 2012 19:07 Geiko wrote:On May 02 2012 19:00 Biff The Understudy wrote:On May 02 2012 18:58 Geiko wrote:On May 02 2012 18:34 Biff The Understudy wrote:
Lepénisation des esprits, they said. Thanks for Sarko and his crew of criminals to have helped a lot to make France a more closed minded, racist and conservative country. And yes, the FN is a very very racist party, in case you doubt about it. 2007 : Le Pen scores 10%, people say "Sarkozy has taken an ultra right turn and has stolen all the voters from the FN because he talks like Le Pen does" 2012 : Le Pen scores 18%, people say "Sarkozy has taken an ultra rigth turn and is responsable for the rise of the FN 2002 : Sarkozy wasn't in the political scene and FN scores 16% Ultra Right wing ideas and their popularity are not caused by Sarkozy, stop blaming him for everything. No Sarlozy got elected by adopting the discourse of Le Pen and making it legitimate. It worked once. Now we pay the consequences: Le Pen is higher than ever, and the bridge between right and far right are blown up. Le Pen was at 16% in 2002, now it's 18% right after a crisis, I don't see anything wrong with this. Is Hollande responsible for the Ultra Left Wing being so high in France ? Melenchon is certainly not ultra left wing. He has the position of the socialist party 30 years ago. Ultra left (Poutou Artaud and the trotskist nuts etc...) is extremely low. Mélanchon is not ultra left wing ? It's not ultra left wing to have URSS flags at ALL his meetings ? Imagine what would have happened if there had been flags from the Thrid Reich at Le Pen's meetings... Haven't seen a single USSR flag in any of his meeting. Have seen communist flags with the sickle and the hammer because Communist party is part of his party. Jospin and Mitterand were allied with the PCF and I don't see what is the proiblem with that or how it relates to Hitler or USSR? Nice Godwin btw. FDG has a marxist ideological basis. That doesn't make it an "extreme" party. Mitterand's 1981 program had a very marxist tone too. He didn't transform France into Stalinist Russia as far as I know.
http://presidentielle2012.canalplus.fr/emissions/le_petit_journal?video=617157
Communist flag IS the USSR flag.
So let me get this straight, for you the communist party is not an ultra left wing party ? Just so we're clear on this point.
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On May 02 2012 19:13 Biff The Understudy wrote:
Melenchon is certainly not ultra left wing. He has the position of the socialist party 30 years ago. Ultra left (Poutou Artaud and the trotskist nuts etc...) is extremely low.
I fully agree with Biff, Melanchon's political background is directly linked to the "old" Parti Socialiste, before the revitalization which occured during the late 70's lead by Michel Rocard (la Deuxième Gauche). So no it's not ultra-left wing.
On May 02 2012 19:19 Geiko wrote:
It's not ultra left wing to have URSS flags at ALL his meetings ?
Imagine what would have happened if there had been flags from the Thrid Reich at Le Pen's meetings...
Cut the bullshit, read some political science books, and use your brain before posting nonsenses, please.
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On May 02 2012 19:37 Ornithorynquez wrote:
Cut the bullshit, read some political science books, and use your brain before posting nonsenses, please.
Do we really need to be this aggressive ? ^^
I'm just asking if a political party that has a communist ideology, with communist flags and integrates the former communist party is ultra left or not.
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On May 02 2012 19:19 Geiko wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2012 19:13 Biff The Understudy wrote:On May 02 2012 19:07 Boblion wrote:
I don't really think that the average FDG/NPA voter is really smarter than those of the FN tbh.
They have even more ressentiment lol. Wow. Yeah, believing in somewhat idealist social justice is more resentful and stupid than being a racist and blaming islam and immigrants for everything. Well, Boblion, sorry to tell you, but that's sickening. Anyway, I'm gone from this thread. On May 02 2012 19:07 Geiko wrote:On May 02 2012 19:00 Biff The Understudy wrote:On May 02 2012 18:58 Geiko wrote:On May 02 2012 18:34 Biff The Understudy wrote:
Lepénisation des esprits, they said. Thanks for Sarko and his crew of criminals to have helped a lot to make France a more closed minded, racist and conservative country. And yes, the FN is a very very racist party, in case you doubt about it. 2007 : Le Pen scores 10%, people say "Sarkozy has taken an ultra right turn and has stolen all the voters from the FN because he talks like Le Pen does" 2012 : Le Pen scores 18%, people say "Sarkozy has taken an ultra rigth turn and is responsable for the rise of the FN 2002 : Sarkozy wasn't in the political scene and FN scores 16% Ultra Right wing ideas and their popularity are not caused by Sarkozy, stop blaming him for everything. No Sarlozy got elected by adopting the discourse of Le Pen and making it legitimate. It worked once. Now we pay the consequences: Le Pen is higher than ever, and the bridge between right and far right are blown up. Le Pen was at 16% in 2002, now it's 18% right after a crisis, I don't see anything wrong with this. Is Hollande responsible for the Ultra Left Wing being so high in France ? Melenchon is certainly not ultra left wing. He has the position of the socialist party 30 years ago. Ultra left (Poutou Artaud and the trotskist nuts etc...) is extremely low. Mélanchon is not ultra left wing ? It's not ultra left wing to have URSS flags at ALL his meetings ? Imagine what would have happened if there had been flags from the Thrid Reich at Le Pen's meetings...
There is nothing wrong with the communist ideology whereas everything is wrong with the nazism ideology.
To answer your question, FdG is far left, but certainly not ultra. They are reformists, unlike NPA or LO who are revolutionnary parties.
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Communists are his allies like we already told you.
Is Romney a ultra right wing candidate if he allies with the tea party ?
Was Mitterand a communist when he allied with PCF ?
Whats so hard to understand ?
And yea, comparing communism with nazism always makes me laugh.
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On May 02 2012 19:34 Geiko wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2012 19:29 Biff The Understudy wrote:On May 02 2012 19:19 Geiko wrote:On May 02 2012 19:13 Biff The Understudy wrote:On May 02 2012 19:07 Boblion wrote:
I don't really think that the average FDG/NPA voter is really smarter than those of the FN tbh.
They have even more ressentiment lol. Wow. Yeah, believing in somewhat idealist social justice is more resentful and stupid than being a racist and blaming islam and immigrants for everything. Well, Boblion, sorry to tell you, but that's sickening. Anyway, I'm gone from this thread. On May 02 2012 19:07 Geiko wrote:On May 02 2012 19:00 Biff The Understudy wrote:On May 02 2012 18:58 Geiko wrote:On May 02 2012 18:34 Biff The Understudy wrote:
Lepénisation des esprits, they said. Thanks for Sarko and his crew of criminals to have helped a lot to make France a more closed minded, racist and conservative country. And yes, the FN is a very very racist party, in case you doubt about it. 2007 : Le Pen scores 10%, people say "Sarkozy has taken an ultra right turn and has stolen all the voters from the FN because he talks like Le Pen does" 2012 : Le Pen scores 18%, people say "Sarkozy has taken an ultra rigth turn and is responsable for the rise of the FN 2002 : Sarkozy wasn't in the political scene and FN scores 16% Ultra Right wing ideas and their popularity are not caused by Sarkozy, stop blaming him for everything. No Sarlozy got elected by adopting the discourse of Le Pen and making it legitimate. It worked once. Now we pay the consequences: Le Pen is higher than ever, and the bridge between right and far right are blown up. Le Pen was at 16% in 2002, now it's 18% right after a crisis, I don't see anything wrong with this. Is Hollande responsible for the Ultra Left Wing being so high in France ? Melenchon is certainly not ultra left wing. He has the position of the socialist party 30 years ago. Ultra left (Poutou Artaud and the trotskist nuts etc...) is extremely low. Mélanchon is not ultra left wing ? It's not ultra left wing to have URSS flags at ALL his meetings ? Imagine what would have happened if there had been flags from the Thrid Reich at Le Pen's meetings... Haven't seen a single USSR flag in any of his meeting. Have seen communist flags with the sickle and the hammer because Communist party is part of his party. Jospin and Mitterand were allied with the PCF and I don't see what is the proiblem with that or how it relates to Hitler or USSR? Nice Godwin btw. FDG has a marxist ideological basis. That doesn't make it an "extreme" party. Mitterand's 1981 program had a very marxist tone too. He didn't transform France into Stalinist Russia as far as I know. http://presidentielle2012.canalplus.fr/emissions/le_petit_journal?video=617157Communist flag IS the USSR flag. So let me get this straight, for you the communist party is not an ultra left wing party ? Just so we're clear on this point.
USSR was "communist" but all communism is not equal to USSR. Therefore USSR flag was communist, but all communist flag is not a flag of the USSR.
You get it?
It's not you use the same symbols (red and the hammer / sickle) that the flag is a flag of USSR. Just that you know the red flag and the hammer and sickle are much older than Leninism.
Communist party is not an extreme left party anymore, and hasn't been for a long time. They are much closer to the PS than to the NPA or LCR. They are not waiting for the Grand Soir, have been in several governments. The only thing you can reproach them is to be irrealist.
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On May 02 2012 19:54 dafunk wrote:
Communists are his allies like we already told you.
Is Romney a ultra right wing candidate if he allies with the tea party ?
Was Mitterand a communist when he allied with PCF ?
Whats so hard to understand ?
Thanks for talking about this. If I understand all of this correctly (correct me if I'm wrong), but it's ok for left wing parties to "ally" themselves with ultra left wing parties, but it's forbidden for right wing parties to even talk about right wing ideas (can't even imagine the uproar if Sarkozy had allied himself with Le Pen) without causing national indignation ?
Is there something I'm missing here ? 
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On May 02 2012 19:45 Geiko wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2012 19:37 Ornithorynquez wrote:
Cut the bullshit, read some political science books, and use your brain before posting nonsenses, please.
Do we really need to be this aggressive ? ^^ I'm just asking if a political party that has a communist ideology, with communist flags and integrates the former communist party is ultra left or not.
Just to give you some perspective...
The big swiss "left" party (~20% of parlament seats) has "overcoming capitalism" in their party-guidelines/constitution (or whatever you would call it in english).
Yet no one would call them "extremists"... In fact the "Greens" in switzerland are "more left" and still not extremist...
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On May 02 2012 19:58 Velr wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2012 19:45 Geiko wrote:On May 02 2012 19:37 Ornithorynquez wrote:
Cut the bullshit, read some political science books, and use your brain before posting nonsenses, please.
Do we really need to be this aggressive ? ^^ I'm just asking if a political party that has a communist ideology, with communist flags and integrates the former communist party is ultra left or not. Just to give you some perspective... The big swiss "left" party (~20% of parlament seats) has "overcoming capitalism" in their party-guidelines/constitution (or whatever you would call it in english). Yet no one would call them "extremists"... In fact the "Greens" in switzerland are "more left" and still not extremist...
Yet "overcoming capitalism" isn't exactly on the same level as "taxing 100% of revenues over 30 000€/month" (wonder how popular that would be in switzerland ^^ )
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On May 02 2012 20:03 Geiko wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2012 19:58 Velr wrote:On May 02 2012 19:45 Geiko wrote:On May 02 2012 19:37 Ornithorynquez wrote:
Cut the bullshit, read some political science books, and use your brain before posting nonsenses, please.
Do we really need to be this aggressive ? ^^ I'm just asking if a political party that has a communist ideology, with communist flags and integrates the former communist party is ultra left or not. Just to give you some perspective... The big swiss "left" party (~20% of parlament seats) has "overcoming capitalism" in their party-guidelines/constitution (or whatever you would call it in english). Yet no one would call them "extremists"... In fact the "Greens" in switzerland are "more left" and still not extremist... Yet "overcoming capitalism" isn't exactly on the same level as "taxing 100% of revenues over 30 000€/month" (wonder how popular that would be in switzerland ^^ )
Do you know near 100% taxes over a certain revenue was standard in many countries before Reagan Tatcher era including in the United Kingdom? It was up to 92%
Haven't heard UK was far left at that time.
Plus if you think it's equal to make an alliance with a party that want to tax super riches and a party that has made racism its trademrak, something is a bit wrong with you.
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On May 02 2012 19:57 Geiko wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2012 19:54 dafunk wrote:
Communists are his allies like we already told you.
Is Romney a ultra right wing candidate if he allies with the tea party ?
Was Mitterand a communist when he allied with PCF ?
Whats so hard to understand ? Thanks for talking about this. If I understand all of this correctly (correct me if I'm wrong), but it's ok for left wing parties to "ally" themselves with ultra left wing parties, but it's forbidden for right wing parties to even talk about right wing ideas (can't even imagine the uproar if Sarkozy had allied himself with Le Pen) without causing national indignation ? Is there something I'm missing here ?
I didnt talked about it you just saw what you wanted to see.
I just showed two exemples to prove you its the same, quite the opposite of your argumentation.
But i'll answer you and be short :
Love opposed to hate.
On May 02 2012 20:03 Geiko wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2012 19:58 Velr wrote:On May 02 2012 19:45 Geiko wrote:On May 02 2012 19:37 Ornithorynquez wrote:
Cut the bullshit, read some political science books, and use your brain before posting nonsenses, please.
Do we really need to be this aggressive ? ^^ I'm just asking if a political party that has a communist ideology, with communist flags and integrates the former communist party is ultra left or not. Just to give you some perspective... The big swiss "left" party (~20% of parlament seats) has "overcoming capitalism" in their party-guidelines/constitution (or whatever you would call it in english). Yet no one would call them "extremists"... In fact the "Greens" in switzerland are "more left" and still not extremist... Yet "overcoming capitalism" isn't exactly on the same level as "taxing 100% of revenues over 30 000€/month" (wonder how popular that would be in switzerland ^^ )
I dont know about swiss but in France this tax is one of the most loved ones among all candidates.
Something like 75% of french people approve it.
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On May 02 2012 20:09 dafunk wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2012 19:57 Geiko wrote:On May 02 2012 19:54 dafunk wrote:
Communists are his allies like we already told you.
Is Romney a ultra right wing candidate if he allies with the tea party ?
Was Mitterand a communist when he allied with PCF ?
Whats so hard to understand ? Thanks for talking about this. If I understand all of this correctly (correct me if I'm wrong), but it's ok for left wing parties to "ally" themselves with ultra left wing parties, but it's forbidden for right wing parties to even talk about right wing ideas (can't even imagine the uproar if Sarkozy had allied himself with Le Pen) without causing national indignation ? Is there something I'm missing here ? I didnt talked about it you just saw what you wanted to see. I just showed two exemples to prove you its the same, quite the opposite of your argumentation. But i'll answer you and be short : Love opposed to hate. Show nested quote +On May 02 2012 20:03 Geiko wrote:On May 02 2012 19:58 Velr wrote:On May 02 2012 19:45 Geiko wrote:On May 02 2012 19:37 Ornithorynquez wrote:
Cut the bullshit, read some political science books, and use your brain before posting nonsenses, please.
Do we really need to be this aggressive ? ^^ I'm just asking if a political party that has a communist ideology, with communist flags and integrates the former communist party is ultra left or not. Just to give you some perspective... The big swiss "left" party (~20% of parlament seats) has "overcoming capitalism" in their party-guidelines/constitution (or whatever you would call it in english). Yet no one would call them "extremists"... In fact the "Greens" in switzerland are "more left" and still not extremist... Yet "overcoming capitalism" isn't exactly on the same level as "taxing 100% of revenues over 30 000€/month" (wonder how popular that would be in switzerland ^^ ) I dont know about swiss but in France this tax is one of the most loved ones among all candidates. Something like 75% of french people approve it.
When I hear Mélanchon say "When you see a rich person, you've got to take his money" (lui faire les poches) I can't help but ask myself where all the "love" between frenchmen is...
Got a source for that 75% ?
It all seems to me like you guys are part of a "pensée unique" where it's ok to have left-ish ideas but you have to be ashamed to have right wing ideas.
Left wing thinkers talk about love and tolerance and oppose the fact that right wing ideas "divide" but in reality it's quite the contrary.
Artists who support Sarkozy are all attacked and boycoted (Faudel, Doc gyneco, Ms Dominique, Clavier etc...) but it's ok for artist to support the PS. Don't you see a condraction here (in regards to your "love opposed to hate").
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On May 02 2012 20:03 Geiko wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2012 19:58 Velr wrote:On May 02 2012 19:45 Geiko wrote:On May 02 2012 19:37 Ornithorynquez wrote:
Cut the bullshit, read some political science books, and use your brain before posting nonsenses, please.
Do we really need to be this aggressive ? ^^ I'm just asking if a political party that has a communist ideology, with communist flags and integrates the former communist party is ultra left or not. Just to give you some perspective... The big swiss "left" party (~20% of parlament seats) has "overcoming capitalism" in their party-guidelines/constitution (or whatever you would call it in english). Yet no one would call them "extremists"... In fact the "Greens" in switzerland are "more left" and still not extremist... Yet "overcoming capitalism" isn't exactly on the same level as "taxing 100% of revenues over 30 000€/month" (wonder how popular that would be in switzerland ^^ )
If overcoming "capitalism"... Which kinda "is" the underlying system we live in right now, is not an "extreme idea" then i don't know what is.
Btw: One of the Ideas going around here is a "general income of ~2k Euros" for every inhabitant.
Btw2: We soon vote over an Initiative which wants to make the highest income to be at most factor 12 of the lowest in a company (which is written poorly and won't make it, it's more symbolic).
This stuff most probably won't make it, but the ideas fly around. The poltiical spectrum in switzerland is very broad... There might are 25-35% very right wing people, but there are also ~25-35% which are very left wing and it extremly depends on the topic.
Iirc most votes for HIGHER taxes also got accepted by the swiss people, which were popular votes...
Long story short:
People in general are fed up with the rich getting richer and the poor getting "more".
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On May 02 2012 20:12 Geiko wrote:
When I hear Mélanchon say "When you see a rich person, you've got to take his money" (lui faire les poches) I can't help but ask myself where all the "love" between frenchmen is...
This is a lie, from Sarkozy.
Sarkozy manipulated Melenchon discourse, and everybody repeated that like idiots.
Melenchon said "on va leur faire les poches" as a metaphor talking about ultra-rich people with abusive salaries. Like only a complete and utter moron would have thought that he was saying that when you see a rich person you have to rob him. But well, nobody checked and Sarkozy's trademrak outrance and manipulative deformation of people's speech worked perfectly.
So, you didn't "hear" anything especially from JLM. You just repeated. Prêt à penser, welcome in Sarkozie.
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On May 02 2012 20:17 Velr wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2012 20:03 Geiko wrote:On May 02 2012 19:58 Velr wrote:On May 02 2012 19:45 Geiko wrote:On May 02 2012 19:37 Ornithorynquez wrote:
Cut the bullshit, read some political science books, and use your brain before posting nonsenses, please.
Do we really need to be this aggressive ? ^^ I'm just asking if a political party that has a communist ideology, with communist flags and integrates the former communist party is ultra left or not. Just to give you some perspective... The big swiss "left" party (~20% of parlament seats) has "overcoming capitalism" in their party-guidelines/constitution (or whatever you would call it in english). Yet no one would call them "extremists"... In fact the "Greens" in switzerland are "more left" and still not extremist... Yet "overcoming capitalism" isn't exactly on the same level as "taxing 100% of revenues over 30 000€/month" (wonder how popular that would be in switzerland ^^ ) If overcoming "capitalism"... Which kinda "is" the underlying system we live in right now, is not an "extreme idea" then i don't know what is. Btw: One of the Ideas going around here is a "general income of ~2k Euros" for every inhabitant. Btw2: We soon vote over an Initiative which wants to make the highest income to be at most factor 12 of the lowest in a company (which is written poorly and won't make it, it's more symbolic). This stuff most probably won't make it, but the ideas fly around. The poltiical spectrum in switzerland is very broad... There might are 25-35% very right wing people, but there are also ~25-35% which are very left wing and it extremly depends on the topic. Iirc most votes for HIGHER taxes also got accepted by the swiss people, which were popular votes... Long story short: People in general are fed up with the rich getting richer and the poor getting "more".
In switzerland you only need 100 000 people to agree with you to get something voted on (initiative) if I'm correct ? The fact that you guys are voting on an absurd law like this isn't surprising.
Not surprisingly though, most of the left wing's support in Switzerland comes from Geneva which is already 50% French people, not many surprises there either.
And if we're talking about initiatives, I recall that a couple of months back you guys voted in favor of banning all minarets from switzerland, and another initiative by the local ultra right party to fly foreigners who commit crimes back to their. country.
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On May 02 2012 20:21 Biff The Understudy wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2012 20:12 Geiko wrote:
When I hear Mélanchon say "When you see a rich person, you've got to take his money" (lui faire les poches) I can't help but ask myself where all the "love" between frenchmen is... This is a lie, from Sarkozy. Sarkozy manipulated Melenchon discourse, and everybody repeated that like idiots. Melenchon said "on va leur faire les poches" as a metaphor talking about ultra-rich people with abusive salaries. Like only a complete and utter moron would have thought that he was saying that when you see a rich person you have to rob him. But well, nobody checked and Sarkozy's trademrak outrance and manipulative deformation of people's speech worked perfectly. So, you didn't "hear" anything especially from JLM. You just repeated. Prêt à penser, welcome in Sarkozie.
Don't you think "on va leur faire les poches" is a rather aggressive statement that can only generate hatred and violence ?
Btw you didn't address the second part of my post.
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EPT
