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On March 02 2012 04:50 mynameisgreat11 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 02 2012 04:46 stokes17 wrote:On March 02 2012 04:33 SupLilSon wrote:On March 02 2012 04:30 SimDawg wrote:On March 02 2012 04:24 mynameisgreat11 wrote:On March 02 2012 04:21 SimDawg wrote:On March 02 2012 02:47 mynameisgreat11 wrote:
Only considering national elections. President, senator, etc.
I live in the USA, and I have never voted, though I've been of age for the last three presidential elections. At first it was because I lived in a state which has always been completely lopsided for one party. I felt like my vote didn't matter, which I realize is a point that many will argue. But, fu, the fact is that my state would elect republicans for national offices no matter what, period.
In the past few years, however, my reasons have changed a bit. Now I realize that I just have no faith in the electoral system. As much as I hate sounding like a long-boarding, clove-smoking,, hipster douche, I feel like the fact of the matter is that the wealthy elite of the country really do control everything. Business moguls and celebrities become senators, governors, and president. Our laws, regulations, and taxes are thought up and created by people who are wealthy and powerful. They've proven time and time again that they're willing to use their position to advance their own ends.
And of course, lobbyists. Whatever company, group, or individual has the most money can trade that cash in for political influence. Oil companies wine, dine, and bribe for the rights to drill in previously protected environmental areas. Religions collect hundreds of billions annually, tax-free mind you, and then turn around and pump that money right back into congress to support bills that they find morally correct.
I know that this is nothing new. Classes have existed since the beginning of civilization. What's infuriating is that Democracy is touted as a government of the people, where decisions and policies are made based on the will of the general public.
It's not. That's why I don't vote.
Is this a blog? This is ridiculous. Do you realize a little over 50% of the voting population actually voted in 2008? An historic election, about 55% of people voted. Who knows what the other 45% was doing or even if they should be voting, because I don't want uneducated people just pressing buttons. But if you don't think 45% of the population can change the direction of the country you're happily deluded and living in a conspiracy theorist's life. I do realize that about half the eligible voters here don't vote, yes. I don't think it changes what I said. So you just wanted to rant instead of talking about trying to actually make a difference? My bad. I misunderstood. I don't think he started this thread with the intent of solving the growing problem of voter apathy in the US. He's asking WHY people vote, as in, people who do choose to vote, why do you choose to do so? Civic duty? What bothers me is the OP is basically saying "I'm unsatisfied with how much my vote matters!!!!" "if I'm not super rich my vote doesn't matter!!!" All I hear is "I'm too lazy to make a difference" Like, Warren Buffet's 1 vote counts as much as yours. Warren Buffet holds influence because he puts a lot of effort into it. Money is of course the easiest way to exert effort on the political system, but it is not the only way. Be a community organizer, convince 100 people to vote for the guy you believe in... boom now you have the power of 101 votes instead of one, because you put in some effort. I see voting as the final, and easiest, step in a campaign. Since I've put in so much effort over the past X months campaigning or at least being an active observer in the process, why wouldn't I vote? The OP also sounds mad that he doesn't live in a battle ground state, and because of this feels powerless when once every 4 years a presidential election occurs and his state is a NC. Instead of sitting and complaining why don't you work during those 4 years to change the landscape of your state? MAKE your state a battleground state. Start by getting your party in at the state level, try and win an open Rep. Election (you'll never beat incumbents). Politics work from the ground up. The states that were battle ground states 20 years ago may not be so today; just because the landscapes change slowly doesn't mean it is immobile. You can make a change, if you start small and work hard. That applies at every level. Do you think Obama's people thought he had a fucking chance in hell in 06? Hell no, he was a community organizer with State senate experience, and 1 term as a US senator. That is NOT a resume for a presidential candidate. And he won! He took down Hilary in the primary who had an order of magnitude more experience at the Federal Executive level, and he took down McCain in the general who has decades in the senate and is a decorated war hero. The only people who think politics in America are Immobile, are people who don't follow politics in America Furthermore, the vast majority of campaign contributions are from small donors (less than ~$200$ I'm not mad because I don't think my vote makes a difference. In my OP, I state that is how I used to feel but now [rest of my OP]. I also have posted twice about things I can do to 'make a difference'. I explain my thoughts on how voting, protesting, or working in politics. If you see something I'm missing, please point it out. And I probably should just leave this out, but seriously dude, if I work hard I'll turn Utah into a Democrat state? It would literally take the second coming of Christ for Utah to not vote Republican.
I didn't see the 2 posts you are talking about.
So you admit you can put effort into accomplishing your political goals beyond voting? Then what is your issue. Voting takes no effort, why should it have an impact disproportional to how hard it is to do?
If you want to make an impact in politics get off your butt and do it, if you don't; IMO at the very least become informed and cast a ballot on election day. If you can't be bothered to educate yourself, then I don't really see the use in voting; it won't hurt or anything, but its kinda a waste of time.
EDIT: about turning Utah blue. Don't be naive, of course you can't MAKE IT DEMOCRAT. But you can get a democrat elected as a state rep. And then the state senate. And if he performs really well there, why not get him elected as a Federal rep. 6 years and 3 elections won later, why can't he take on an open senate election? Like it happens dude. Look at Maine. State is extremely Blue with a republican Senate.
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+ Show Spoiler +On March 02 2012 04:18 stokes17 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 02 2012 04:15 Jerubaal wrote:
Oh boy, lots of points...
1. The vast majority of campaign money comes from small donations. Please don't be an ignorant fuck. Obama could raise as much as 1 billion in this next election and the money coming from the Super PAC might be 100 million.
"Religions collect hundreds of billions annually, tax-free mind you, and then turn around and pump that money right back into congress." Wut.
I don't understand this anti-incorporation nonsense. So you're saying that one person has a right to express their opinion but a group of people don't? I suspect this phrase just gets parroted and nobody really thinks about it at all.
2. There are lots of explanations for low voter turnout other than general ignorance or apathy. Political parties in the U.S. have muck weaker associations compared to those in Europe. The goal of campaigns in U.S. elections is 'persuasion' rather than 'mobilization', and, of course, the parties just aren't as strong so mobilization is fairly weak. It isn't always like this and there have been different cycles with more or less mobilization.
3. Democracy vs Republic: Who cares? A better description of the government would be a mixed government, with monarchical (executive), aristocratic (supreme court), and democratic (Congress). You vote for all of them in different ways to prevent one element of society or government from becoming too powerful.
Removing the electoral college would make it a pure democracy. Remove the electoral college so we can have a tyranny of the majority and make lots of votes not count!
4. So I've just gone over a bunch of reasons why voting in the U.S. works, but what seems to be the problem? The OP did say it. The inmates are running the asylum, only the inmates are you (and your parents and family and friends and everyone else of course). So you go out and vote and when you don't get your way, since you don't actually know a lot about politics, you concoct a bunch of reasons why your opinion wasn't ratified: The system is broken and controlled by elites. Everyone else is brainwashed. The opposition is evil and insincere. The rationalizations of an immature mind that can't seem to understand why not everyone agrees with them.
And, of course, the irony is that you are the majority and still complaining. The Democrats have been a 8-25% majority since the 1940s, yet why do they act like they are always in the minority? Why do you attack Fox News exclusively even though its viewpoints are vastly underrepresented in the media? Because you aren't interested in democratic process or a balanced government, you're interested in having your ideology implemented on a national scale. How do you stage a revolution from the top, though? The audience that is being pandered to is you. OMG, someone who has a clue, nice to meet you ^^ except FOX news and every other 24 hour news organization run in a similar fashion does deserve to be attacked because they bear the majority of the blame for the ABSURD watering down of political dialogue. Their Motto is basically: If it can't be said in 30 seconds with a clear villain and hero; it can't be said at all. imho 24 hour news media will be the downfall of the US Political System, if anything is going to be.... its disgusting
You're not hating on Fox News because of their standards, though, you're just hating on them because of their view point. Else, you'd be hating on MSNBC, which is worse, and the NYT and Dan Rather, proven fabricators.
8-10% is the advantage given to Democrats by the media according to a recent UCLA study. I'm not saying these things to be partisan- I gave a defense of the system after all- , I'm saying them because the OP and others are preaching populism and its clear that populism has more than its fair share at the moment. So how do you have a revolution if you're already in charge? You're just mad at yourself I guess.
@OP- Rich people do and will always have a disproportionate effect on politics. They have the time, education and resources to do so. This is not unique to the U.S. or to the time. However, to say that they 'control everything' is just not a supportable arguments. Money is only so good as it gets him votes, after all, and small donations greatly outweigh the larger ones.
Why don't you read some books on electoral theory and party politics if this feels you with angst.
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Lobbyists power, while formidable, is greatly exaggerated. Many people misinterpret what it means when companies give money to a particular politicians campaign. They see the cause and effect all wrong. They think the giving money to the campaign CAUSES the politician to support something they want (the EFFECT). This is generally wrong. Politicians with certain beliefs on issues that are beneficial to certain companies are given money by companies because of the politicians beliefs, not to change his/her beliefs. Companies simply try to keep people in office who hold beliefs which benefit them, they aren't buying politicians.
The general public is still in charge too. We are not controlled by mysterious corporate overlords. There are too many people, too many causes, too many corporations, for some sort of single set of the elite to uniformily make all the political decisions. Look at all the different policies out there, all kinds of which help absolutely no one who is powerful, all kinds which are even specifically damaging towards the wealthy and powerful. The will of the general public is heard, and is the basis for our political system, and our policies.
Your individual apathy towards the political process is indeed completely unimportant and irrelevant as you claim. The irrelevancy, or duty of an individual's decision in a very large system is something more for a philosophical discussion, though. I find no value in analyzing an individuals voting decision or importance, and I find looking at voting much more generally more useful.
You can rationalize your apathy however you want, for whatever purpose, but you are not powerless. And when you start trying to convince other people of falsehoods like this, it bothers me.
(Oh, and I'd definitely argue against the electoral system, but I think our discussion isn't really about that anymore in this thread).
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On March 02 2012 04:41 SySLeif wrote:Show nested quote +On March 02 2012 04:38 mynameisgreat11 wrote:On March 02 2012 04:33 -Duderino- wrote:
People in the U.S vote because thier individual vote doesnt matter but the American vote as a whole does. We vote because we feel we owe it to our fellow Americans who have the same believes as us.
All the bashing of the American political system is so overblown. Yes it is chaotic and yes money and lobbying does influence it, BUT our political system has made us hands down the greatest country the world has ever seen and probally ever will. The American politcal system has given all Americans so much opportunity, freedom and wealth that the biggest politcal arguements of the day are based on gay rights and religon lol.
Americans have so little problems that are biggest concern when voting is "what do they think about gay marriage" lol like a totally pointless topic, or "what is your plans for fixing these other countries like afghanistan iran and iraq", its not what is your plan for preventing American starvation or any of the other basic problems that many countries still face. So yes our system is a little crazy but until some other country comes close to besting it (which I strongly believe will not be in my lifetime), I will happily cast my useless vote and be proud to be an American. I like lots of things about America, but I'd be careful about calling us the 'greatest country the world has ever seen'. I actually feel that America has only given 'so much opportunity, freedom, and wealth' to a certain few. Lots of Americans have problems that aren't little, including starvation. My significant other is a social worker. Every day she is with people who are starving, ill and cannot receive care, and any number of problems that go along with being poor. These problems exist here. We might not have the best equality of result in the world, but we have the best equality of opportunity known to man, and for me, that's the only thing that counts.
Um, no we don't. Many Scandinavian countries beat the pants off of the U.S. when it comes to equal opportunity. Most people born poor in the U.S. will die poor, and most born rich will die rich.
After thinking about the election system as a whole, it really doesn't make sense that we even elect individuals to power. We should be electing political parties at this point, since it's impossible for many of these representatives to actually represent the millions of people/views in their own districts.
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Russian Federation4447 Posts
mynameisgreat11
Democrats politicians are just as much bought by special interests as republicans.
Just because they have a (D) next to their name doesn't mean your interests are better represented than an (R).
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On March 02 2012 04:54 stokes17 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 02 2012 04:50 mynameisgreat11 wrote:On March 02 2012 04:46 stokes17 wrote:On March 02 2012 04:33 SupLilSon wrote:On March 02 2012 04:30 SimDawg wrote:On March 02 2012 04:24 mynameisgreat11 wrote:On March 02 2012 04:21 SimDawg wrote:On March 02 2012 02:47 mynameisgreat11 wrote:
Only considering national elections. President, senator, etc.
I live in the USA, and I have never voted, though I've been of age for the last three presidential elections. At first it was because I lived in a state which has always been completely lopsided for one party. I felt like my vote didn't matter, which I realize is a point that many will argue. But, fu, the fact is that my state would elect republicans for national offices no matter what, period.
In the past few years, however, my reasons have changed a bit. Now I realize that I just have no faith in the electoral system. As much as I hate sounding like a long-boarding, clove-smoking,, hipster douche, I feel like the fact of the matter is that the wealthy elite of the country really do control everything. Business moguls and celebrities become senators, governors, and president. Our laws, regulations, and taxes are thought up and created by people who are wealthy and powerful. They've proven time and time again that they're willing to use their position to advance their own ends.
And of course, lobbyists. Whatever company, group, or individual has the most money can trade that cash in for political influence. Oil companies wine, dine, and bribe for the rights to drill in previously protected environmental areas. Religions collect hundreds of billions annually, tax-free mind you, and then turn around and pump that money right back into congress to support bills that they find morally correct.
I know that this is nothing new. Classes have existed since the beginning of civilization. What's infuriating is that Democracy is touted as a government of the people, where decisions and policies are made based on the will of the general public.
It's not. That's why I don't vote.
Is this a blog? This is ridiculous. Do you realize a little over 50% of the voting population actually voted in 2008? An historic election, about 55% of people voted. Who knows what the other 45% was doing or even if they should be voting, because I don't want uneducated people just pressing buttons. But if you don't think 45% of the population can change the direction of the country you're happily deluded and living in a conspiracy theorist's life. I do realize that about half the eligible voters here don't vote, yes. I don't think it changes what I said. So you just wanted to rant instead of talking about trying to actually make a difference? My bad. I misunderstood. I don't think he started this thread with the intent of solving the growing problem of voter apathy in the US. He's asking WHY people vote, as in, people who do choose to vote, why do you choose to do so? Civic duty? What bothers me is the OP is basically saying "I'm unsatisfied with how much my vote matters!!!!" "if I'm not super rich my vote doesn't matter!!!" All I hear is "I'm too lazy to make a difference" Like, Warren Buffet's 1 vote counts as much as yours. Warren Buffet holds influence because he puts a lot of effort into it. Money is of course the easiest way to exert effort on the political system, but it is not the only way. Be a community organizer, convince 100 people to vote for the guy you believe in... boom now you have the power of 101 votes instead of one, because you put in some effort. I see voting as the final, and easiest, step in a campaign. Since I've put in so much effort over the past X months campaigning or at least being an active observer in the process, why wouldn't I vote? The OP also sounds mad that he doesn't live in a battle ground state, and because of this feels powerless when once every 4 years a presidential election occurs and his state is a NC. Instead of sitting and complaining why don't you work during those 4 years to change the landscape of your state? MAKE your state a battleground state. Start by getting your party in at the state level, try and win an open Rep. Election (you'll never beat incumbents). Politics work from the ground up. The states that were battle ground states 20 years ago may not be so today; just because the landscapes change slowly doesn't mean it is immobile. You can make a change, if you start small and work hard. That applies at every level. Do you think Obama's people thought he had a fucking chance in hell in 06? Hell no, he was a community organizer with State senate experience, and 1 term as a US senator. That is NOT a resume for a presidential candidate. And he won! He took down Hilary in the primary who had an order of magnitude more experience at the Federal Executive level, and he took down McCain in the general who has decades in the senate and is a decorated war hero. The only people who think politics in America are Immobile, are people who don't follow politics in America Furthermore, the vast majority of campaign contributions are from small donors (less than ~$200$ I'm not mad because I don't think my vote makes a difference. In my OP, I state that is how I used to feel but now [rest of my OP]. I also have posted twice about things I can do to 'make a difference'. I explain my thoughts on how voting, protesting, or working in politics. If you see something I'm missing, please point it out. And I probably should just leave this out, but seriously dude, if I work hard I'll turn Utah into a Democrat state? It would literally take the second coming of Christ for Utah to not vote Republican. I didn't see the 2 posts you are talking about. So you admit you can put effort into accomplishing your political goals beyond voting? Then what is your issue. Voting takes no effort, why should it have an impact disproportional to how hard it is to do? If you want to make an impact in politics get off your butt and do it, if you don't; IMO at the very least become informed and cast a ballot on election day. If you can't be bothered to educate yourself, then I don't really see the use in voting; it won't hurt or anything, but its kinda a waste of time. EDIT: about turning Utah blue. Don't be naive, of course you can't MAKE IT DEMOCRAT. But you can get a democrat elected as a state rep. And then the state senate. And if he performs really well there, why not get him elected as a Federal rep. 6 years and 3 elections won later, why can't he take on an open senate election? Like it happens dude. Look at Maine. State is extremely Blue with a republican Senate.
Here is a summary. I am brainstorming what average joe schmoe (me) can do to 'make a difference'. Suggestions welcome.
-Vote: We can argue about this one, but I feel pretty strongly that my vote either doesn't matter, or at best, has an infinitesimal effect.
-Protest: What did the recent 99% protests do? Got a lot of college kids arrested and feeling good about themselves. What did my protests back in 2005 about the war in Iraq do? Not much. The only successful, large-scale example I can think of is the African-American civil rights movement, and that took tens of millions of people and 300 years.
-Work in politics: I quit my career and work for a campaign/party/run for office myself. I have no money, I have no political connections. I can dedicate my life to it and work day and night, and probably make some impact, but the general system in place will be unchanged.
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It's your duty to vote even if you don't think it matters. A truly democratic state in which every citizen votes on every issue is nigh impossible. It only becomes more impractical when you consider a country of our size. Voting in any election that occurs is important. There are local elections that matter and you should absolutely vote in those even if the total number of people voting exceeds tens of thousands. If you don't vote, don't voice your opinion afterwards. It's funny how the most vocal people in this world are the ones who were too cynical to take part in the decision when they had the opportunity. You might be only one in millions but it's better than being nothing. If you feel especially impassioned about finding a politician you feel would be less self-serving and more altruistic, get out and do something about it.
It's pseudo-paradoxical to make a thread like this where you claim how pointless it is and then do nothing to try to counteract that pessimism. It's no different than being extremely overweight and blaming the food for making you fat yet refusing to enact any change in your own action to mitigate your perpetual obesity. Ignorance is bliss? Or perhaps not.
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On March 02 2012 04:58 Tien wrote:
mynameisgreat11
Democrats politicians are just as much bought by special interests as republicans.
Just because they have a (D) next to their name doesn't mean your interests are better represented than an (R).
Yes, thank you, I know. That's why I don't vote 
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On March 02 2012 04:48 sevencck wrote:Show nested quote +On March 02 2012 04:45 -Duderino- wrote:On March 02 2012 04:38 mynameisgreat11 wrote:On March 02 2012 04:33 -Duderino- wrote:
People in the U.S vote because thier individual vote doesnt matter but the American vote as a whole does. We vote because we feel we owe it to our fellow Americans who have the same believes as us.
All the bashing of the American political system is so overblown. Yes it is chaotic and yes money and lobbying does influence it, BUT our political system has made us hands down the greatest country the world has ever seen and probally ever will. The American politcal system has given all Americans so much opportunity, freedom and wealth that the biggest politcal arguements of the day are based on gay rights and religon lol.
Americans have so little problems that are biggest concern when voting is "what do they think about gay marriage" lol like a totally pointless topic, or "what is your plans for fixing these other countries like afghanistan iran and iraq", its not what is your plan for preventing American starvation or any of the other basic problems that many countries still face. So yes our system is a little crazy but until some other country comes close to besting it (which I strongly believe will not be in my lifetime), I will happily cast my useless vote and be proud to be an American. I like lots of things about America, but I'd be careful about calling us the 'greatest country the world has ever seen'. I actually feel that America has only given 'so much opportunity, freedom, and wealth' to a certain few. Lots of Americans have problems that aren't little, including starvation. My significant other is a social worker. Every day she is with people who are starving, ill and cannot receive care, and any number of problems that go along with being poor. These problems exist here. And it easily proven that America is the best country I agree America is a great nation in many ways, but there are many great nations. I'd be interested in hearing your proof.
You would have to give me awhile to write good report on why America is the greatest, But if you just look at some basic facts that I don't have citations for: American has to be the largest supplier of world aid, It helped win many a war for the better, It was just recently passed by china as the world largest producer but china has like 5 times as many peeps, Probaly still is the worlds largest consumer, we export are culture worldwide with our styles in music and movies and tv being copied by billions, No other country comes close to exporting freedom like the U.S we will give American lifes for chance of allowing peeps in other countries to live free, we have probaly contributed the most to science and technology, I can go on and on but the point i want to make is forieners should have a lil gratitude for america because no matter where they are from they are affected by america daily even if in an indirect way. And I cant even think of what other country would give the U.S a run for its money Britain mabye but I think we proved what country was better with the revolution, Germany? they blew ther chance wit hitler, China? they blew ther chance many a time, Japan? lol you see when you look at just the history of countires let alone there stance today noone holds the moral compass of the united states, and you can point several incidnets like slavery and vietnam but the united states has made amends and admitted its mistakes and you could even make an arguement that native americans and the vietnamese are better off today then they would have been witout the U.S. So point is get out and vote kids ^^
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"It has been said that democracy is the worst form of government except all the others that have been tried." -Winston Churchill
Democracy relies on free thinking people to work as intended. The problem is, most of us live subconsciously. We are told something by a political candidate we see on the news or in a debate and we believe it. Politicians with the biggest pocketbook tend to do better because they can put out ads that feed subconscious thinking. Example: This candidate is bad because blahblahblah, vote for me because I blahblahblah. People buy into that. It's no different than corporate advertising.
Now we have tools to be a free thinking people. Even though the media has it's bias and it's ability to filter what we see, the internet isn't always reliable, and to get a book we have to leave our house, God-forbid, we still can use these tools with a bit of wisdom and knowledge. Problem is, we are too lazy to do this. We would rather gather our information from one source that claims to be reliable and be done with it. That source most commonly seems to be the mainstream media as it is right on our TV's and we literally don't have to put any effort into obtaining the information they tell us. Many times we don't even think about it and we just accept it!
So when we go to make an 'informed' decision such as a political vote, most people act off this lower conciseness they have. They make the decision someone else told them or persuaded them to make, not a decision they made on their own.
So I agree with the OP on several of his points. I would argue however that it is not big business or big government secretly taking advantage of us, but us surrendering ourselves to them. People are too lazy to take the power they have and like infants they need someone else to guide them. It's quite disgusting really, and it's all the peoples fault.
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On March 02 2012 05:01 FeUerFlieGe wrote:
"It has been said that democracy is the worst form of government except all the others that have been tried." -Winston Churchill
Democracy relies on free thinking people to work as intended. The problem is, most of us live subconsciously. We are told something by a political candidate we see on the news or in a debate and we believe it. Politicians with the biggest pocketbook tend to do better because they can put out ads that feed subconscious thinking. Example: This candidate is bad because blahblahblah, vote for me because I blahblahblah. People buy into that. It's no different than corporate advertising.
Now we have tools to be a free thinking people. Even though the media has it's bias and it's ability to filter what we see, the internet isn't always reliable, and to get a book we have to leave our house, God-forbid, we still can use these tools with a bit of wisdom and knowledge. Problem is, we are too lazy to do this. We would rather gather our information from one source that claims to be reliable and be done with it. That source most commonly seems to be the mainstream media as it is right on our TV's and we literally don't have to put any effort into obtaining the information they tell us. Many times we don't even think about it and we just accept it!
So when we go to make an 'informed' decision such as a political vote, most people act off this lower conciseness they have. They make the decision someone else told them or persuaded them to make, not a decision they made on their own.
So I agree with the OP on several of his points. I would argue however that it is not big business or big government secretly taking advantage of us, but us surrendering ourselves to them. People are too lazy to take the power they have and like infants they need someone else to guide them. It's quite disgusting really, and it's all the peoples fault.
I agree. I don't think its a big conspiracy either though, I think its just the natural progression of capitalism + a republic.
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I agree with this post, I believe that politics in general in the states seems very corrupt. Governments are like a business, where money is everything except they don't give a single f*** for the efficiency and desire of the population. So much to say here but il just end it with lobbyists, super pacs, and desire for profit sadly blind most politicians from the objective of their duty in my opinion, in the states that is.
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On March 02 2012 04:54 mastergriggy wrote:Show nested quote +On March 02 2012 03:18 NotSorry wrote:
I vote on smaller topics that will effect me locally/statewide, I will vote on governors and senate seats but I feel things like presidents are already decided in each state due to the joke of a system that is the electoral college, sure there are some states still up for grabs but there are many states that have been overwhelmingly Red or Blue since the beginning of the electoral college such as my home state as such I don't bother to vote.
Remove the electoral college and make every vote count! I really don't want 100 million people with IQs of less than 100 making the difference in the election. We'll end up even worse off.
So you're fine with the couple 100million people with IQs of less than 100 that we already have voting?
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on second thought... every country has its nationalists, little to no point arguing with some of them
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People think they're just another drop in the sea, and for the most part they are. Popular vote doesn't actually matter at all, it's all up to the electoral college. Al Gore vs. Bush sparked quite a big controversy over the Electoral college, and I think it disheartened a lot of people (me included).
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Even if you don't vote... you can show up, fill out a ballot, and make it official you're not voting for anyone. That way you don't screw everyone else over just because you're lazy. It seriously takes 10 minutes and most jobs will let you come in late for it.
Plus they give you a cool pin. I can't think of any excuse not to at least do this much unless you're trying to just live in your own little ignorant world where nothing matters because you're tiny and out numbered.
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Some people don't vote because they think all candidates are retarded.
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On March 02 2012 03:45 Smat wrote:
All of you people saying "voting doesn't matter, the president is elected by the electoral college anyway" need to go take a class in US government.
Bush vs Gore?
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On March 02 2012 05:04 NotSorry wrote:Show nested quote +On March 02 2012 04:54 mastergriggy wrote:On March 02 2012 03:18 NotSorry wrote:
I vote on smaller topics that will effect me locally/statewide, I will vote on governors and senate seats but I feel things like presidents are already decided in each state due to the joke of a system that is the electoral college, sure there are some states still up for grabs but there are many states that have been overwhelmingly Red or Blue since the beginning of the electoral college such as my home state as such I don't bother to vote.
Remove the electoral college and make every vote count! I really don't want 100 million people with IQs of less than 100 making the difference in the election. We'll end up even worse off. So you're fine with the couple 100million people with IQs of less than 100 that we already have voting?
LOL pretty factual if you ask me.
The solution: Jerry Springer on Piers Morgan Live said that the key to the future in the united states is investing our money into education should be #1 priority. He said that when Peirs asked him what he would if he became president.
But the thing with Springer is that he knows politics, but since he does it because he loves it and not for money it makes his suggestions legit and logical
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I have voted since I turned 18 almost 7 years ago. However as I have paid more and more attention and gotten a better picture of the true reality of the political system, I have realized more and more how truly pointless voting is. Especially when the majority of voters are completely uninformed and the majority of cantidates are career politicians who simply say whatever the opinion polls tell them to and people fall for it every single time.
I can't think of a better system, but in a system with democratically elected leaders you can't ever get a government smarter than the idiots who elect it. And yes, I am making the case that at least 70% if not more of the voting population are complete morons. Our education system is horribly broken and has been for decades and because of it people are horribly uneducated on almost all issues.
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EPT
