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Hi,
just found a news in German media and immediatly searched for another source in English.
It looks like being a young gamer in South Korea is getting tougher and tougher. Last year the country put into effect a "Cinderella Law" that prohibited online gamers 18 and younger from logging in to popular games between the hours of midnight and 6:00 a.m.. Now the government is taking a close look at an additional law limiting the amount of time played each day for minors.
The proposed policy comes from the Ministry of Education, Science and Technology (MEST) and would yank account privileges for minors if they played either more than two hours in a row or more than three hours daily. The MEST is concerned about game addiction in minors, citing that it may come from the duration of play sessions.
The game industry is concerned about possible over-regulation by the government spurred by theories on addiction that haven't been proven. Some are calling for earlier shutdown policies to be overturned if this one is implemented.
Source: http://massively.joystiq.com/2012/01/27/three-hours-and-out-south-korea-considers-additional-gaming-ban/
Apparently Korea is creating another gaming law which forbids teenagers under 18 (19 korean age) to play more than 3 hours a day, aswell as not being able to play more than 2 consecutive hours.
What do you think will happen if the big companys like Blizzard especially enforce this law due to Korean gov.? Will future players in SC1 and SC2 be even able to emerge with something like this?
Sincerely Zumm
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Wow thats crazy, would this affect underage progamers too? If it does then i dont know how they could continue to be progamers...
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Doesn't Kespa have any lobbying power? If Korea wants the world to see their culture through Starcraft, this needs to not happen.
I can't believe they are imposing such restrictions in an otherwise liberal democracy. In the West, enforcing this is called "parenting" and if you do a bad job it is your fault not the government's.
You can't really tell from the article how close a "proposed" policy is to actually being law.
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I can't really find more than that, maybe someone who speaks Korean could watch up if there is something on the net concerning that.
But as it looks it would affect underage progamers too, it's law after all.
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I agree, this is really the job of the parents not the government.
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Don't think Korea will be so dominant in the future if this law passes.
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there wont be an esports scene in korea if this passes, or at least this generation will be the last of esports.
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Well this sucks but I understand why they do it and it might not be completely wrong...
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I understand the will too, but 3 hours is kind of hard. People who are addicted to playing video games are playing the whole day. It's not just 4 or 5 hours. So they could simple raise the amount of time :-/
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On January 28 2012 23:15 aTnClouD wrote:
Well this sucks but I understand why they do it and it might not be completely wrong...
It's like burning a litter of kittens because one of them pooped on the floor :C
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Why is the government trying to play parents? It's up to every mother and father to decide these kind of things.
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What's with the high amount of absolutely ridiculous laws around at the moment?
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Lol, shouldn't there be more important things the Government should do than play the roles of every child's parents?
This is just silly.
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That's not how I wanted the west to be the best at SC.
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2 things though. A minor could just use the account of someone of age, or they could play somewhere other than Korean servers, where they couldn't be regulated like that.
Both seem like pretty simple and obvious solutions if this law were to be made a reality.
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Progamers still need 6hours sleep + it will just regulate good sleep hours for the gamers
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On January 28 2012 23:24 Hall0wed wrote:
2 things though. A minor could just use the account of someone of age, or they could play somewhere other than Korean servers, where they couldn't be regulated like that.
Both seem like pretty simple and obvious solutions if this law were to be made a reality.
I was thinking the same. Even if they purchased Taiwanese account... would half the proleague houses lose a lot of their full-time team?
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On January 28 2012 23:26 Near1985 wrote:
Progamers still need 6hours sleep + it will just regulate good sleep hours for the gamers
Not when you can play just 3 hours a day...
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If you're going to implement a law like this (which I disagree with anyway btw), surely it makes more sense to restrict it on a weekly basis rather than daily. Like say punish for going over 21-28 hours per week. I would hardly call it an addiction if for example a kid played games over the afternoon/evening on Saturday and Sunday, but not on weekdays, 3 hours max a day seems a bit silly. (The definition of 'addiction' itself can be argued in this context)
As an aside - they have Education, Science and Technology under one ministry and/or representative? Lots of responsibility there
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On January 28 2012 23:21 HaXXspetten wrote:
Why is the government trying to play parents? It's up to every mother and father to decide these kind of things.
because thats all governments want to do these days
who needs a nanny when you have a nanny state
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Although I disagree with this law, I can't help but think this is great for the for the foreigner scene. If korean progamers stay in korea then they will forcibly practice less and give us foreigners the chance to catch up.  Or on the flipside if they want to stay competitive they can always come to the states with foreign teams or have a US team house, etc. Either way I think this sucks for young korean progamers, I'm just saying there is a silver lining.
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SK citizens need to protest and fight for their civil liberties too, this is ultra stupid.
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The government doesn't understand. There is no game addiction involved in this, most are in it for the money. If they say that young pro gamers who want to be successful are addicted to money, they can certainly say way more than the same about themselves.
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I play probably 95% of my games between midnight and 6am.
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On January 28 2012 23:34 Panthae wrote:Although I disagree with this law, I can't help but think this is great for the for the foreigner scene. If korean progamers stay in korea then they will forcibly practice less and give us foreigners the chance to catch up. Or on the flipside if they want to stay competitive they can always come to the states with foreign teams or have a US team house, etc. Either way I think this sucks for young korean progamers, I'm just saying there is a silver lining.
We need every bit of SC2/BW support we can get from every country in the world. The scene works because we have the Koreans to set the standard and the foreigners to cheer for.
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On January 28 2012 23:42 ZackAttack wrote:
I play probably 95% of my games between midnight and 6am.
Yep me too lol.
As much as I disagree with this anyway, time of day should not be a factor.
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I think you are overreacting because even IF this (stupid) law passes: How should the korean gouverment be able to controll the amount of time minors play and more importantly how old people ACTUALLY are?
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Sigh, what is this world coming to. How is it even remotely defensible for a government to tell people what they can spend their free time doing or how to raise their children. My head hurts just from thinking about all the "big government" initiatives going on these days. Sadly the whole world is run by people who don't understand computers and it's benefits.
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As much as I hate laws like this, lets try not to derail this thread and create yet another debate on the role of government.
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On January 28 2012 23:46 TotalNightmare wrote:
I think you are overreacting because even IF this (stupid) law passes: How should the korean gouverment be able to controll the amount of time minors play and more importantly how old people ACTUALLY are?
Well if a young progamer rises to be known he will be under control and in big trouble.
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On January 28 2012 23:04 Soleron wrote:
Doesn't Kespa have any lobbying power? If Korea wants the world to see their culture through Starcraft, this needs to not happen.
I can't believe they are imposing such restrictions in an otherwise liberal democracy. In the West, enforcing this is called "parenting" and if you do a bad job it is your fault not the government's.
You can't really tell from the article how close a "proposed" policy is to actually being law.
Do they ? Can't imagine why any country would want that.
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I dunno; don't people die in Korea from over-gaming? This doesn't seem so different than porn age-restrictions (and we all know how effective those are).
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Sucks for Leenock 
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On January 28 2012 23:46 TotalNightmare wrote:
I think you are overreacting because even IF this (stupid) law passes: How should the korean gouverment be able to controll the amount of time minors play and more importantly how old people ACTUALLY are?
Korean gamers have to register accounts with their KSSN #'s, which has all their information connected to them. Because of this they (the government) can order game companies (Blizzard, NCSoft, etc) to kick those accounts off after a certain amount of time.
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It's political problem rather than government. Fermine and parental NGOs are strongly forcing government and Congresspeople to set up those kinds of acts, but there are very few counterpart NGOs to against them.
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On January 28 2012 23:51 eYeball wrote:Sucks for Leenock
FXO will just fly him out to Malaysia ;D
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It's definitely something for parents to handle. I bet this is just nestea and losira conspiring to keep Leenock from getting better...
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Perhaps, just perhaps this is why Blizz doesn't implement LAN :O.
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Thats good.
The kids need to study more, and dont play videogames all day long.
I think Leenock is too young to stop studing and work as a player, per example.
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BW got lan and no need of signing up of KSSN, won't affect BW players.
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If people register a KR SC2 account with their parents' number, or in the case of the foreigners that go over there, some random person's number, it won't have any affect as blizzard will just comply to the law by kicking the accounts of minors after 3 hours.
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Was just going to say, dont worry about our little bonjwas...many of them use many different accounts. The only thing this will do will push them away from PC bangs, which is really bad for many businesses
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Legitimate law or nefarious plan by Blizzard to destroy Broodwar? You decide! :p
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On January 28 2012 23:50 Bazoldi wrote:Show nested quote +On January 28 2012 23:04 Soleron wrote:
Doesn't Kespa have any lobbying power? If Korea wants the world to see their culture through Starcraft, this needs to not happen.
I can't believe they are imposing such restrictions in an otherwise liberal democracy. In the West, enforcing this is called "parenting" and if you do a bad job it is your fault not the government's.
You can't really tell from the article how close a "proposed" policy is to actually being law. Do they ? Can't imagine why any country would want that.
Korean government broadcasts SC2 on their propaganda channel, advertises tourism through GSL, contributes to Kespa through Airforce ACE.
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On January 29 2012 00:10 Chernobyl wrote:
Thats good.
The kids need to study more, and dont play videogames all day long.
I think Leenock is too young to stop studing and work as a player, per example.
This is something that parents, not government should decide.
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On January 29 2012 00:20 Antisocialmunky wrote:
Legitimate law or nefarious plan by Blizzard to destroy Broodwar? You decide! :p
On January 29 2012 00:11 Black[CAT] wrote:
BW got lan and no need of signing up of KSSN, won't affect BW players.
Terrible terrible damage. All these (terrible)laws lately from NA to EU to KR to everywhere... im sad.
Edit: I think a possible reason of why goverment(s) isnt leaving it up to the parents is they simply want to push in a different direction than we as an entire general population, parents and all want to go. If that wasnt the case then these kinds of laws would be truly absurd and wouldnt even be an idea to begin with.
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On January 29 2012 00:10 Chernobyl wrote:
Thats good.
The kids need to study more, and dont play videogames all day long.
I think Leenock is too young to stop studing and work as a player, per example.
I really don't like the idea of the government forcing to you what you can and what you can't do. Parents have the role of parenting. Kids in korea already study more than anywhere in the world.(at least I know they study a lot)
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On January 28 2012 23:27 Dagobert wrote:
Also, LAN.
subtle troll
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how come they dont just lie about their age when they sign up, or use a parents acc?
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On January 29 2012 00:29 optical630 wrote:
how come they dont just lie about their age when they sign up, or use a parents acc?
Someone from South Korea should correct my oversimplification, but from what I understand, Koreans must use an ID to use online services, so I imagine that you wouldn't be able to do that for long. And obviously if you're a progamer with the high profile of someone such as Leenock, I imagine they would require them to be pretty transparent with how much practice time he's getting.
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Wow. This law is so stupid. I would like you to think for a second on how this law affects Starcraft. If this law had existed previously, there would be no Flash, no Leenock, no Jjakji. So many of our best players are/were underaged.
Besides, gaming "addiction" doesn't exist, playing less only increases your longing to play whereas playing more makes you tired of it and regulating what you do is the job of parents, not government.
But those are all secondary points compared to how many dreams will be ruined. Sure, Flash may not have to retire now, but people like Leenock and Jjakji will, all because of an imagined addiction and an unchecked government.
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On January 28 2012 23:04 Soleron wrote:
I can't believe they are imposing such restrictions in an otherwise liberal democracy.
Without getting too political, you're way off base with this statement. Korea has a history of conservative dictatorship and as a society they are very reserved. The current government has fought more than one culture war and they will continue to do so.
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Leenock just got nerfed :< . With korea being such a huge gaming country though I can see where the worries are coming from.
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On January 28 2012 23:29 BlindSC2 wrote:
If you're going to implement a law like this (which I disagree with anyway btw), surely it makes more sense to restrict it on a weekly basis rather than daily. Like say punish for going over 21-28 hours per week. I would hardly call it an addiction if for example a kid played games over the afternoon/evening on Saturday and Sunday, but not on weekdays, 3 hours max a day seems a bit silly. (The definition of 'addiction' itself can be argued in this context)
As an aside - they have Education, Science and Technology under one ministry and/or representative? Lots of responsibility there
Um, your math is weird, You say 3 max per day is silly but your limit of 21 hours per week is EXACTLY what they are talking about (3hours x 7 days a week= 21 hours a week) lol. I'd say 5-6 hours a day isn't much of a problem. Some pros that i know of only practice 4-5 hours a day. These are people like Stephano and NesTea so it shouldn't be too bad if they can do it and get good results.
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On January 29 2012 00:42 HikariPrime wrote:Show nested quote +On January 28 2012 23:29 BlindSC2 wrote:
If you're going to implement a law like this (which I disagree with anyway btw), surely it makes more sense to restrict it on a weekly basis rather than daily. Like say punish for going over 21-28 hours per week. I would hardly call it an addiction if for example a kid played games over the afternoon/evening on Saturday and Sunday, but not on weekdays, 3 hours max a day seems a bit silly. (The definition of 'addiction' itself can be argued in this context)
As an aside - they have Education, Science and Technology under one ministry and/or representative? Lots of responsibility there Um, your math is weird, You say 3 max per day is silly but your limit of 21 hours per week is EXACTLY what they are talking about (3hours x 7 days a week= 21 hours a week) lol. I'd say 5-6 hours a day isn't much of a problem. Some pros that i know of only practice 4-5 hours a day. These are people like Stephano and NesTea so it shouldn't be too bad if they can do it and get good results.
Nothing weird about his math he was just using the numbers they're using.
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On January 29 2012 00:42 HikariPrime wrote:Show nested quote +On January 28 2012 23:29 BlindSC2 wrote:
If you're going to implement a law like this (which I disagree with anyway btw), surely it makes more sense to restrict it on a weekly basis rather than daily. Like say punish for going over 21-28 hours per week. I would hardly call it an addiction if for example a kid played games over the afternoon/evening on Saturday and Sunday, but not on weekdays, 3 hours max a day seems a bit silly. (The definition of 'addiction' itself can be argued in this context)
As an aside - they have Education, Science and Technology under one ministry and/or representative? Lots of responsibility there Um, your math is weird, You say 3 max per day is silly but your limit of 21 hours per week is EXACTLY what they are talking about (3hours x 7 days a week= 21 hours a week) lol. I'd say 5-6 hours a day isn't much of a problem. Some pros that i know of only practice 4-5 hours a day. These are people like Stephano and NesTea so it shouldn't be too bad if they can do it and get good results.
I think you misunderstood, I interpreted his comment that the time limit isn't the problem, but rather that people would probably be happier if they were able to play longer periods some days rather than essentially being 'forced' to play their 3 hours a day else they 'lose' play time. 3 hours max per day is pretty rigid.
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I wonder what Tasteless would say about this law...
+ Show Spoiler +This new gaming law is hurting e-sports!
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On January 29 2012 00:48 Oldfool wrote:Show nested quote +On January 29 2012 00:42 HikariPrime wrote:On January 28 2012 23:29 BlindSC2 wrote:
If you're going to implement a law like this (which I disagree with anyway btw), surely it makes more sense to restrict it on a weekly basis rather than daily. Like say punish for going over 21-28 hours per week. I would hardly call it an addiction if for example a kid played games over the afternoon/evening on Saturday and Sunday, but not on weekdays, 3 hours max a day seems a bit silly. (The definition of 'addiction' itself can be argued in this context)
As an aside - they have Education, Science and Technology under one ministry and/or representative? Lots of responsibility there Um, your math is weird, You say 3 max per day is silly but your limit of 21 hours per week is EXACTLY what they are talking about (3hours x 7 days a week= 21 hours a week) lol. I'd say 5-6 hours a day isn't much of a problem. Some pros that i know of only practice 4-5 hours a day. These are people like Stephano and NesTea so it shouldn't be too bad if they can do it and get good results. I think you misunderstood, I interpreted his comment that the time limit isn't the problem, but rather that people would probably be happier if they were able to play longer periods some days rather than essentially being 'forced' to play their 3 hours a day else they 'lose' play time. 3 hours max per day is pretty rigid.
If that the case then i apologize. This whole thing is silly, It is a parenting task and also part of growing up as a kid. To learn whats important in life for yourself. It's good because it should happen that kids study more, but it shouldn't be up to the government.
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On January 28 2012 23:04 Soleron wrote:
Doesn't Kespa have any lobbying power? If Korea wants the world to see their culture through Starcraft, this needs to not happen.
I can't believe they are imposing such restrictions in an otherwise liberal democracy. In the West, enforcing this is called "parenting" and if you do a bad job it is your fault not the government's.
You can't really tell from the article how close a "proposed" policy is to actually being law.
im pretty sure the average korean doesnt want his country to be represented by a bunch of kids playing a video game lol
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Well, Korea just got allot worse in SC2, that's for sure.
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Were were these laws when all the kids were playing with marbles?!
Seriously though, the midnight to 6 law might not be all that bad, however 3hrs a day is really not that much, especially since the computer is the main "toy" for young people these days. Imagine if you told your son/daughter that they could only hang out with their friends for 3hrs a day and not more than 2hrs in a row, yikes :O
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so no more progamer houses in SK or does this only affect korean citizens?
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On January 29 2012 00:53 HikariPrime wrote:Show nested quote +On January 29 2012 00:48 Oldfool wrote:On January 29 2012 00:42 HikariPrime wrote:On January 28 2012 23:29 BlindSC2 wrote:
If you're going to implement a law like this (which I disagree with anyway btw), surely it makes more sense to restrict it on a weekly basis rather than daily. Like say punish for going over 21-28 hours per week. I would hardly call it an addiction if for example a kid played games over the afternoon/evening on Saturday and Sunday, but not on weekdays, 3 hours max a day seems a bit silly. (The definition of 'addiction' itself can be argued in this context)
As an aside - they have Education, Science and Technology under one ministry and/or representative? Lots of responsibility there Um, your math is weird, You say 3 max per day is silly but your limit of 21 hours per week is EXACTLY what they are talking about (3hours x 7 days a week= 21 hours a week) lol. I'd say 5-6 hours a day isn't much of a problem. Some pros that i know of only practice 4-5 hours a day. These are people like Stephano and NesTea so it shouldn't be too bad if they can do it and get good results. I think you misunderstood, I interpreted his comment that the time limit isn't the problem, but rather that people would probably be happier if they were able to play longer periods some days rather than essentially being 'forced' to play their 3 hours a day else they 'lose' play time. 3 hours max per day is pretty rigid. If that the case then i apologize. This whole thing is silly, It is a parenting task and also part of growing up as a kid. To learn whats important in life for yourself. It's good because it should happen that kids study more, but it shouldn't be up to the government.
This is a good point, actually. You would imagine it would increase study efforts and the like, but it's more likely that those who have such bad habits to play too much would end up just browsing forums, chatting more, or even just playing games that require no SSID. You get the common problem of just replacing one thing with another.
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I may be mistaken, but it seems really easy to get around that law. It is like copyright laws, it is still illegal to pirate music, but it is not enforced.
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This is oldish...but its made mostly cuz people in korea just play MMO's allll dayyyyyy. all. day. But yeah this law can't pass or Starcraft in general is greatly hindered.\
Edit:
On January 29 2012 00:53 jlim wrote:lol
It's actually really funny how this gets brought up so often....if progaming is to be accepted, than we can't have laws like this tho..even if leenock did stop studying he can do it later right now hes BEASTING and I'd reckon having the time of his life. I don't have the time of my life studying.
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In the interview after the MLG final, Leenock clearly said that he doesn't go to school anymore.
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This is the work of the C.I.A, trying to help foreigners get to the top of SC2.
J.K
In all seriousness, this law is taking it too far. As the general consensus has said, its the role of the parents to teach, and supervise their children. Balance IS essential, but playing too much games is the least of problems, I have learned History, math, memory, vocabulary, countless subjects from games. Games are great, and I don't see how with South Korea's education system that this could be doing much harm, they study and attend many hours more of School than most.
All work and no play :|
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On January 29 2012 01:09 cyclone25 wrote:In the interview after the MLG final, Leenock clearly said that he doesn't go to school anymore.
Sigh... my quote from FXO was 4 days after MLG Providence, and it was clarifying the statement Leenock made. It could have been mistranslated or misunderstood (Leenock could have been saying he got a break from school to go to that specific tournament or that he's not going to the same school anymore)
From the liquipedia:
"Although there was some confusion on this subject at MLG Providence, Leenock does go to school."
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Retarded law, is this seriously the same country that went apeshit because the goverment started importing pork?
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On January 29 2012 01:09 cyclone25 wrote:In the interview after the MLG final, Leenock clearly said that he doesn't go to school anymore.
Well MLG providence ended 2011-11-20 and that tweet is 2011-11-24. It was obviously some sort of translation mistake or something...
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It makes you wonder exactly how bad the kids there game. You hear crazy stories about people who go to PC cafe for a couple days straight, but those are generally outliers and happen in every country right? I wonder what makes the Korean government so crazy about this.
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It's a good law, there's no point in having people waste their lives playing games when they should be studying and making their path in the world.
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On January 29 2012 00:10 Chernobyl wrote:
Thats good.
The kids need to study more, and dont play videogames all day long.
I think Leenock is too young to stop studing and work as a player, per example.
Playing games is no different from playing basketball or watching TV during your free time. It is the parent's job to regulate their kids.
On January 29 2012 01:22 pebblebeach wrote:
It's a good law, there's no point in having people waste their lives playing games when they should be studying and making their path in the world.
Why is being a pro-gamer not "making their path in the world" ?
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On January 29 2012 01:22 pebblebeach wrote:
It's a good law, there's no point in having people waste their lives playing games when they should be studying and making their path in the world.
People should be able to make choices regarding their own life. Other people shouldn't interfere in peoples personal life.
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I agree that a law like this has to be put into place if the country's lacks people going into higher education, but a sever time restriction really isn't the way. 3 hours a day means that a lot of content in mmos are no longer playable, and playing more than 3 hours on weekends is completely reasonable. If they can keep track of how long you've been playing, they can target the kids who do play way too long.
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I see a bunch of 40 year old ladies with stay at home jobs sitting at a table going : SAVE THE CHILDRENN!!!!!!!!1!1!!
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On January 29 2012 01:24 Fubi wrote:Show nested quote +On January 29 2012 00:10 Chernobyl wrote:
Thats good.
The kids need to study more, and dont play videogames all day long.
I think Leenock is too young to stop studing and work as a player, per example. Playing games is no different from playing basketball or watching TV during your free time. It is the parent's job to regulate their kids. Show nested quote +On January 29 2012 01:22 pebblebeach wrote:
It's a good law, there's no point in having people waste their lives playing games when they should be studying and making their path in the world. Why is being a pro-gamer not "making their path in the world" ?
I don't think he's referring to that, but rather he is talking about how a large amount of Korean children play MMO's all day(Yeah their cultural work ethic may make them work harder to succeed, but thats really bad if you play an MMO). From what I understand these laws are in reaction to those games, not RTS's. Thus, there should be an RTS clause.
BTW, wasting your life playing games is almost how one finds TL, no? But that's besides the point.
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South Korean is quickly turning into North Korea
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I guess there might be exceptions for progamers. But then again who will be considered a progamer? Is a KeSPA license mandotary?
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doesn't make sense. how do you expect to foster up and coming progamers when you can't even play =.="
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FOREIGNERS WILL NOW HAVE A CHANCE! REJOICE, NON KOREANS
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On January 29 2012 01:50 KoTakUEurO wrote:
doesn't make sense. how do you expect to foster up and coming progamers when you can't even play =.="
maybe there's more important things than playing video games
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They probably realized that today's generation is less educated than the last, yeah it should be a parental decision, but with internet cafes being so acessible its pretty easy to say ''i'm at school studying'' when you're actually laddering.
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Sigh...
Seriously, what's with the stupid laws everywhere these days ? Is this some kind of competition for 2012 ?
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On January 29 2012 01:22 pebblebeach wrote:
It's a good law, there's no point in having people waste their lives playing games when they should be studying and making their path in the world.
Do you consider professional athletes not making their path in the world either? You could say they're wasting their lives practicing and exercising for sports events that have nothing to do with life other than for entertainment. Sure you can say they're "exercising and being healthy", but you can do that by going to the gym for 1-2 hours a day and eating well.
What I'm saying is that e-sports and physical sport athletes are very similar in that they contribute to entertainment in their own careers and your argument doesn't make any sense.
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On January 29 2012 02:03 Tiegrr wrote:Show nested quote +On January 29 2012 01:22 pebblebeach wrote:
It's a good law, there's no point in having people waste their lives playing games when they should be studying and making their path in the world. Do you consider professional athletes not making their path in the world either? You could say they're wasting their lives practicing and exercising for sports events that have nothing to do with life other than for entertainment. Sure you can say they're "exercising and being healthy", but you can do that by going to the gym for 1-2 hours a day and eating well. What I'm saying is that e-sports and physical sport athletes are very similar in that they contribute to entertainment in their own careers and your argument doesn't make any sense.
11 year old kid football training: 3 hours a day, at best.
11 year old ''progammer'': 8 hours a day, in a bad day.
I know he said people but actually he meant children, and kids shouldn't waste +8 hours playing games.
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On January 29 2012 02:08 DDie wrote:Show nested quote +On January 29 2012 02:03 Tiegrr wrote:On January 29 2012 01:22 pebblebeach wrote:
It's a good law, there's no point in having people waste their lives playing games when they should be studying and making their path in the world. Do you consider professional athletes not making their path in the world either? You could say they're wasting their lives practicing and exercising for sports events that have nothing to do with life other than for entertainment. Sure you can say they're "exercising and being healthy", but you can do that by going to the gym for 1-2 hours a day and eating well. What I'm saying is that e-sports and physical sport athletes are very similar in that they contribute to entertainment in their own careers and your argument doesn't make any sense. 11 year old kid football training: 3 hours a day, at best. 11 year old ''progammer'': 8 hours a day, in a bad day.
I don't know a single 11 year old pro gamer. Do you? Youngest I've ever seen is 14. And there's kids that practice American Football after school and before school everyday for up to 4 hours. (I won't compare other sports because I don't have any experience in those.)
Then there's the average progamer of ~18-24. That's usually the age professional athletes are as well. And don't tell me they don't spend a majority of their day practicing and exercising.
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This is why parental controls come in most games. I use them for my son (he's 12) and he is fine with it. Weekdays he can play from 5:00 (after chores, hmwrk etc.) till 10:00pm if he chooses to. Weekends he can play as late as he wants.
I don't understand how most parents can't control the amount of time their children spend on the internet/gaming.
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Herm, it's kinda funny that some government finally passed a law to upset the mostly pre voting age internet gaming denizens. All those posts about how people 'shouldn't be able to own guns', 'we need to be forced to use green energy', and the like have finally had a law pointed directly at something they like. How does it feel to have the government telling you what you can or can't do to something you enjoy, much less directly affect your standard of living.
edit: added y to 'the' to make 'they'
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I'd say, it's a parent thing. If kids can't keep it up with homework, then yes, only 3 hours a day maybe. But if they do good in school, why limit their fun? There is nobody in the government that is under 18 and play games, so it's kind of harsh to everyone else.
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On January 29 2012 02:09 Tiegrr wrote:Show nested quote +On January 29 2012 02:08 DDie wrote:On January 29 2012 02:03 Tiegrr wrote:On January 29 2012 01:22 pebblebeach wrote:
It's a good law, there's no point in having people waste their lives playing games when they should be studying and making their path in the world. Do you consider professional athletes not making their path in the world either? You could say they're wasting their lives practicing and exercising for sports events that have nothing to do with life other than for entertainment. Sure you can say they're "exercising and being healthy", but you can do that by going to the gym for 1-2 hours a day and eating well. What I'm saying is that e-sports and physical sport athletes are very similar in that they contribute to entertainment in their own careers and your argument doesn't make any sense. 11 year old kid football training: 3 hours a day, at best. 11 year old ''progammer'': 8 hours a day, in a bad day. I don't know a single 11 year old pro gamer. Do you? Youngest I've ever seen is 14. And there's kids that practice American Football after school and before school everyday for up to 4 hours. (I won't compare other sports because I don't have any experience in those.)
Thats why i used the '' ''.
Progaming is very, VERY different than other sports because it is a lot harder to make a living of it, it requires a lot more work than other sports,(a footballer doesn't train +10 hours a day, those are normal for a progamer), not to mention you have to be the absolute best to make it big.
What i mean is, you can't compare them, they are different situations.
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I see pro gaming less like a pro athlete and more like studying for an exam, constantly. Who cares about other sports training regimens. Its irrelevant.
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On January 29 2012 01:27 Hetairoi wrote:Show nested quote +On January 29 2012 01:22 pebblebeach wrote:
It's a good law, there's no point in having people waste their lives playing games when they should be studying and making their path in the world. People should be able to make choices regarding their own life. Other people shouldn't interfere in peoples personal life.
were talking about minors here. they tend to be idiots.
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On January 29 2012 00:10 Chernobyl wrote:
Thats good.
The kids need to study more, and dont play videogames all day long.
I think Leenock is too young to stop studing and work as a player, per example.
In korea, the work is SUPER intense, as in, wake up -> school -> night school -> sleep
The only way these kids get away from that is through games, you want to limit one of their only stress releases in a country that already has huge problems with suicide/depression over school related pressure?
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On January 29 2012 02:17 MK4512 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 29 2012 00:10 Chernobyl wrote:
Thats good.
The kids need to study more, and dont play videogames all day long.
I think Leenock is too young to stop studing and work as a player, per example. In korea, the work is SUPER intense, as in, wake up -> school -> night school -> sleep The only way these kids get away from that is through games, you want to limit one of their only stress releases in a country that already has huge problems with suicide/depression over school related pressure?
If it is like that than they hardly have any time to play games, the 3 hours daily limit is actually a luxury. Whats the problem?
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Dear Korea,
Parental Controls.
That is all,
Medrea
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well now they can get addicted to the TV again.
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This could be a conspiracy. Blizzard could want this law because they feel Koreans are too good, so cutting off their supply of good players this way can make foreigners show better results. Of course this will take about 10 years to mature.
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Besides all of this, I wonder where do korean kids really make some times to play games?
They go to school when they wake up till they sleep practically. It's like they study 16 hours a day.
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It shouldn't be the task of the gov. to take care of kids in this regard.
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On January 28 2012 23:20 Ache0wns wrote:Show nested quote +On January 28 2012 23:15 aTnClouD wrote:
Well this sucks but I understand why they do it and it might not be completely wrong... It's like burning a litter of kittens because one of them pooped on the floor and the hadn't proven it was done by a kitten :C
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This simply comes down to whether the government should or should regulate it's citizen's lives to this degree.
Western v Eastern views on government.
I tend to lean a great deal more towards the west. The government shouldn't spend it's time on managing it's population to this degree.
It's not the governments task to cultivate an army of perfect citizens.
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Well for progamers it is more like work and not mindless goldfarming or whatever.
I could imagine that the government wants to protect kids who waste time (even more) and neglect their school/studies.
Progamers will probably get a license to play, or get someone older to register smurfs.
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It's not the governments job to parent the countries kids, it's the parents job.
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On January 29 2012 03:10 zalz wrote:
This simply comes down to whether the government should or should regulate it's citizen's lives to this degree.
Western v Eastern views on government.
I tend to lean a great deal more towards the west. The government shouldn't spend it's time on managing it's population to this degree.
It's not the governments task to cultivate an army of perfect citizens.
I have opinions on governments' relation to people as well, but even given that talking about it is bound to be a bit inevitable in this thread, I don't think the discussion has any place here simply because it's too easy for people to generalize and abstract until they miss the point, and end up arguing about a hypothetical government/society that they've created in their minds and doesn't actually exist.
People missing the point here.....
A better avenue of discussion would be, is this good in the context of Korea? well let's see...
You have a newly assertive neoliberal movement in the education system which is trying to privatize and further standardize education with an increased emphasis on testing--- this is having the effect of increased exam pressure, increased competition for spots in highschools/universities, etc.
As a result you also have parents that are really concerned about their children getting results in education, but you have a parallel opposition to the trend in education where people are really getting pissed off at the system.
You have an education ministry that is increasingly under fire from people as to why the system isn't working as they've promised it would (increased hours spent cramming, increased stress/competition, but no increase in results for individuals), and they are eager to scapegoat other causes, such as gaming. (MEST, the ministry are the ones lobbying for this law)).
And finally you have a pro-gaming industry, and a wider gaming industry that will suffer huge consequences as a result, but so far hasn't mobilized in opposition to this.
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On January 29 2012 01:50 KoTakUEurO wrote:
doesn't make sense. how do you expect to foster up and coming progamers when you can't even play =.="
Kids are the future...if they are all interested in video games and video games early, I worry for South Korea's future when the current population grows up. A similar but different scenario showing the importance of the future generation (work force) can be seen in North America...Baby Boomers are nearing retirement age, but the generation growing up is no where large enough to replace them. We will have shortage of positions being filled eventually.
South Korea is planning for the worst I am guessing.
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On January 29 2012 03:42 Fawkes wrote:Show nested quote +On January 29 2012 01:50 KoTakUEurO wrote:
doesn't make sense. how do you expect to foster up and coming progamers when you can't even play =.=" Kids are the future...if they are all interested in video games and video games early, I worry for South Korea's future when the current population grows up. A similar but different scenario showing the importance of the future generation (work force) can be seen in North America...Baby Boomers are nearing retirement age, but the generation growing up is no where large enough to replace them. We will have shortage of positions being filled eventually. South Korea is planning for the worst I am guessing.
How are those similar?
The baby boom is an inevitable fact of life and a very real thing we need to deal with.
The negative influence of video games is hardly a well established fact.
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Things like this really remind you how fringe eSports actually are, even in Korea.
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Wow at first it sounded to me, like being new law in NORTH korea xd
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On January 28 2012 23:04 Soleron wrote:
Doesn't Kespa have any lobbying power? If Korea wants the world to see their culture through Starcraft, this needs to not happen.
I can't believe they are imposing such restrictions in an otherwise liberal democracy. In the West, enforcing this is called "parenting" and if you do a bad job it is your fault not the government's.
You can't really tell from the article how close a "proposed" policy is to actually being law.
Ugh, really man? Since when did Korea want the world to see their culture through Starcraft? Its like claiming Japan wants the world to see their culture through anime or the US wants the world to see their culture through WWE.
First, unless someone shows me otherwise, I'm inclined to believe that Starcraft is not as big as a lot of people claim it to be. Yeah there are national tv channels showing pro SC, but then again we have the "History Channel" here in the US and anyone who has at least an average IQ stays away from that bullshit.
Second, even if it was as big as football for us Americans or, well...football for the rest of the world, thats not the only thing in their culture theyd want to show. Unless you actually believe that the majority of the Korean population follows Starcraft, its a bit strange to claim that Korea wants to show the world their culture through Starcraft.
PS. "In the West, enforcing this is called 'parenting'." Really? Youre gonna condescendingly suggest that its an Asian thing to leave parenting to the government? sigh....
Edit: Not saying its good for the government to be imposing themselves on peoples personal lives, but I can't believe you think its a bad thing that kids will be studying more, exercising more, sleeping better, etc. instead of playing computer games.
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I guess Flash's legacy of results at such a young age will be undisputed for all time, then.
I recognize that the Korean citizenry has some very severe problems with gaming addiction that we as outsiders cannot fully appreciate, but their problems also include too much pressure on children that results in psychological issues. The Korean government cannot expect teenagers to perfectly conform to their ideal. Nanny state laws like this are never good things, and frankly I don't see why this is necessary to mandate at the national level, thereby dragging in the many individuals who are doing well now, when software is already available for parents to do this sort of thing if it's needed.
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This is one of the most draconian ideas I've ever even heard of.
I hope it never happens (it probably won't)
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How is it even possible to enforce this law? How are you going to know if i lie and say im 25 on the internet if im 17 or 18 korean??
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United States33388 Posts
Korean government, bringing parity to global ESPORTS
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Imagine is something like this were trying to be passed in the US.
People would go insane
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I wonder why so much of the SK population gets addicted. Parenting? Culture?
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This is a pity.
You can have a kid who's excelling in school and gets all his work done and still can't play for four hours on a Saturday?
Not everyone is great at basketball x.x And especially in South Korea, some pro-gamers there are responsible role models (Boxer?).
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On January 29 2012 00:10 Chernobyl wrote:
Thats good.
The kids need to study more, and dont play videogames all day long.
I think Leenock is too young to stop studing and work as a player, per example.
Maybe we should put a law where you must study for 3hours every day, because: not playing games =/= studying.
First I was like, well I would be outrageous if this was going on in my country but as it is, south korean is very different culture from finnish and it's probably better if I only look at objective things like, what will now actually happen to many underage progamers in south korea ? My best wishes for their future.
That said, I hope this doesn't become reality.
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This would essentially completely cripple any future ESPORTS development for South Korea.
Ugh
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I can't believe they are imposing such restrictions in an otherwise liberal democracy. In the West, enforcing this is called "parenting" and if you do a bad job it is your fault not the government's. a "liberal democracy" is one with infinitely more govt intervention than a true conservative democracy, as a conservative democracy will have a very limited central govt. also in the West, or at least the U.S the gov't takes full blame for not educating/raising your children, and then takes them away as wards of the state. anything to have a reason to spend more tax money and get bigger gov't and more regulations, a "liberal" democracy is a contradiction in term
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This law only applies to online games so won't kids just play offline games once they hit their daily time limit? I really don't see how this is going to accomplish anything other than inconveniencing young gamers.
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Don't they have some type of freedom in their constitution??!?!!?!!! WTF
Anyways it does make sense from a utilitarian standpoint.
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On January 29 2012 04:37 Dbla08 wrote:Show nested quote +I can't believe they are imposing such restrictions in an otherwise liberal democracy. In the West, enforcing this is called "parenting" and if you do a bad job it is your fault not the government's. a "liberal democracy" is one with infinitely more govt intervention than a true conservative democracy, as a conservative democracy will have a very limited central govt. also in the West, or at least the U.S the gov't takes full blame for not educating/raising your children, and then takes them away as wards of the state. anything to have a reason to spend more tax money and get bigger gov't and more regulations, a "liberal" democracy is a contradiction in term
Great, now this thread is going to be derailed into a "classical liberal" vs "modern liberal" debate... Both of the words "liberal" and "conservative" have complex definitions that have changed over time.
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I only see this getting enforced in pc bangs. I think you have the wrong idea when asking if Blizzard would get involved.
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People are always going to be addicted to things - Games, porn, drugs. When addiction is applied to things considered respectable by society, it's called passion. But I think addiction taken to extremes in any discipline is unhealthy. By discouraging video game playing, it simply redirects the addiction to something else. Redirected to something maybe more productive, maybe less productive.
Since you can't say that everyone will be more productive, overall, I'd consider it a net loss. Not only would a little bit of freedom be eroded, but you'd have some parents shirking responsibility onto the government. There are plenty worse things to be addicted to than games.
Strange how kids in the west have problems with ADD, while the east have problems with kids being too focused.
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I hate to say it but there is actually a lot to be gained from laws like this. While it SHOULD be the parents responsibility to regulate how often their children play video games there are 2 big problems with this:
1: lack of supervision, if both parents works most of the day and you have a child who walks home on their own after school, how can you make sure he only plays X hours a day?
2: parental controls don't always work, let's face it, parents are bad with technology. The amount of time/effort it would take some parents to set up parental controls on their kids SC2 account is somewhat prohibitive.
Granted it is a breach of personal rights, wasting hours a day as a child playing online video games is not productive, being forced to do other activities would have definitely benefited a lot of kids I know.
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This is really horrible for the Korean gaming culture. This seams really a bit harsh to allow such a law. Sure, I do not doubt that it will benefit other parts in the society like more time for studies and increase the physical health of the young students. Please note that I have a low insight in the Korean society so points may be very invalid.
I guess there is nothing more to it then following this process!
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i would agree with the guy who said to count the hours bt week. What if you can only play one or two days a week? The 3 hour max is relatively low. How would they regulate consoles or single player games? And what are they going to arrest kids for overgaming? Lol
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How does one enforce this? Create huge juvy prisons that they throw all the gamers in? Expect the moms and dads to put their kids in jail?
Mom or dad goes to the police (or w/e) telling them how much their kid has been gaming, and are penalized with a fine? Isn't that like shooting yourself in the foot?
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Shit that is harsh.
Korean education is really about to go out of control, the conditions there are ridiculous >_<
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I know that gaming (especially MMOs) is a big societal problem in Korea, and people are saying "parenting", well for one, many parents do the same thing, and two, parenting isn't all too great in Korea aside from the "do work in school" reinforcement from what I've been told by some Koreans.
Still, this law is really extreme. It's just retarded.
And what are they going to arrest kids for overgaming? Lol
Nah, they send them to shit like this:
http://www.gamepolitics.com/2011/01/18/how-koreans-treat-game-addicted-children
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Kids could be doing much worse things than playing video games...
Not to mention the fact that *not* playing video games doesn't mean they'll be focusing on schoolwork.
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On January 29 2012 03:10 zalz wrote:
This simply comes down to whether the government should or should regulate it's citizen's lives to this degree.
Western v Eastern views on government.
I tend to lean a great deal more towards the west. The government shouldn't spend it's time on managing it's population to this degree.
It's not the governments task to cultivate an army of perfect citizens.
Except for that the west is doing it more and more for everyday. It's disgusting that people actually wants have their personal life controlled by the government.
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Well look at it this way, at least now foreigners may not fall too far behind Koreans
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lol didnt know south korea was north korea
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I don't see this law working effectively because if someone is addicted enough to anything, they will just find another way to fuel their needs. Enforcing this will just be a nightmare and it hurts for those who actually benefit from playing video games for long hours, such as leenock and jjakji.
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On January 29 2012 04:52 attwell wrote:
Granted it is a breach of personal rights, wasting hours a day as a child playing online video games is not productive, being forced to do other activities would have definitely benefited a lot of kids I know.
You can't say with certainty that being forced into other activities will be beneficial. I think a more likely scenario is that the kids will instead just watch TV, most likely anime. Then you'll have obsessive anime fanboy/girl.
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On January 29 2012 00:10 Chernobyl wrote:
Thats good.
The kids need to study more, and dont play videogames all day long.
I think Leenock is too young to stop studing and work as a player, per example. I don't think you know anything about the school culture of South Korea.
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On January 28 2012 23:04 Soleron wrote:
Doesn't Kespa have any lobbying power? If Korea wants the world to see their culture through Starcraft, this needs to not happen.
I can't believe they are imposing such restrictions in an otherwise liberal democracy. In the West, enforcing this is called "parenting" and if you do a bad job it is your fault not the government's.
You can't really tell from the article how close a "proposed" policy is to actually being law.
I know that we nerds like to wax eloquent about the legitimacy of playing video games, but the reality is that for the vast majority of us it ends up being a time sink or distraction from more productive activities. I would venture a guess that traditional Koreans would rather the World didn't see their culture through video games. There is still a negative connotation attached to gaming, especially "excessive" gaming.
Add to that the health risks associated with playing video games for long hours and now you have a legitimate health concern worthy of discussion. It absolutely is the parent's responsibility first to monitor their child's game time, but its not unheard of for the the government to implement laws pertaining to traditional parent responsibilities.
Personally, I don't agree with the idea that my government should be able to tell me how I or my kids spend their free time, but there are certainly several compelling arguments against "excessive" gaming.
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On January 29 2012 04:22 YouMake wrote:
How is it even possible to enforce this law? How are you going to know if i lie and say im 25 on the internet if im 17 or 18 korean??
I think Koreans have to register for games with their social security numbers or something like that.
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On January 29 2012 05:12 SilverLeagueElite wrote:Show nested quote +On January 29 2012 04:52 attwell wrote:
Granted it is a breach of personal rights, wasting hours a day as a child playing online video games is not productive, being forced to do other activities would have definitely benefited a lot of kids I know. You can't say with certainty that being forced into other activities will be beneficial. I think a more likely scenario is that the kids will instead just watch TV, most likely anime. Then you'll have obsessive anime fanboy/girl.
Yeah I don't see how a ban exclusively on online games makes sense.
If anything a law that implemented better PE programs at school would be a better option. You can't take kids away from the TV and computer, they will always find a way to waste time. Making sure they are at least active for a few hours a day would be a much more effective way to accomplish the same thing.
That being said I have no idea what SK schools are like, but I feel like physical inactivity is the real problem here.
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How much of an issue is "gaming addiction" in S.Korea?
Is it really so bad that laws are needed to regulate it?
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On January 28 2012 23:53 Manatea wrote:
It's political problem rather than government. Fermine and parental NGOs are strongly forcing government and Congresspeople to set up those kinds of acts, but there are very few counterpart NGOs to against them.
Assuming you live in South Korea (from your profile), are you saying the parenting organizations are in FAVOR of this type of legislation!?
Either way, I second the comment stating this seems to be the common actions of many govts. nowadays. I would not be happy about this if I was a youth in South Korea (or any age, for that matter).
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There isn't something more important for South Korean governments to enforce? >.>;
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imagine if they brought this in... gg MKP, you can only play 3 hours a day xD
OT: I don't think they will bring this out, the repercussions are way too big. It doesn't just affect kids, but multiple businesses and industries too. Including the computer technology industry. Samsung and other tech giants in Korea won't let this happen.
In the end, the government will care more about their economy than what a few teachers have to say.
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Umm... if you don't play 2 hours in a row, you aren't "gaming" anymore, your just checking out the game superficially.
If I couldn't play more than 3 hours in a day, I'd go insane.
Are there any opposition forces/pressure on the MEST against this new law?
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On January 29 2012 05:44 CrazyF1r3f0x wrote:
How much of an issue is "gaming addiction" in S.Korea?
Is it really so bad that laws are needed to regulate it?
well there are cases like this:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/mar/05/korean-girl-starved-online-game
still i don't think legislation for children in this manner works well. i mean i know that if i wanted to play games badly enough, there are plenty of ways to pirate. however this will definitely cut down on MMORPGs which is huge in countries like SK
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Korea just needs to take a big chill pill
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On January 29 2012 05:51 fuzzy_panda wrote:Show nested quote +On January 29 2012 05:44 CrazyF1r3f0x wrote:
How much of an issue is "gaming addiction" in S.Korea?
Is it really so bad that laws are needed to regulate it? well there are cases like this: http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/mar/05/korean-girl-starved-online-gamestill i don't think legislation for children in this manner works well. i mean i know that if i wanted to play games badly enough, there are plenty of ways to pirate. however this will definitely cut down on MMORPGs which is huge in countries like SK
same exact thing happen in America too, I remember the story about 3 years ago, the couple played everquest though, this seemed way to familar, but this one is more extreme, the husband killed his mom a month before this happened cuz she didn't like him playing
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This is gonna seriously fk over some MMO companies over there.
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Take away video games?
Sweet more time to use drugs and watch TV.
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It's strange that they believe so strongly in the youth, support pro-gaming so heavily, but wish to limit the ability of youth to become pro-gamers by legally prohibiting them from practising as much as they would need to in order to excel. So much hypocrisy in such a ridiculous law. If they don't want children to be pro-gamers, why don't they just make a law that prohibits anyone under the age of 18 from devoting their life to training to be a pro-gamer (think Leenock).
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On January 28 2012 23:20 Ache0wns wrote:Show nested quote +On January 28 2012 23:15 aTnClouD wrote:
Well this sucks but I understand why they do it and it might not be completely wrong... It's like burning a litter of kittens because one of them pooped on the floor :C
I would totally support one, but not the other. One kills something wonderful. The other is just burning kittens.
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I guess it just gets harder and harder... perhaps they are trying to de-emphasize professional gaming?
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And how exactly do they know how old these gamers are? just type an earlier birthdate, problem solved.
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It's only until 18, while there are ofcourse alot of progamers that start before 18, it doesn't limit them to the point where progaming dies in korea.
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Pretty crazy tbh, will massively effect the Sc2 community over there.
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On January 29 2012 08:18 BalliSLife wrote:
And how exactly do they know how old these gamers are? just type an earlier birthdate, problem solved.
Because in korea your online id is associated with your social security. So there really isnt a way to lie about your age. You could use an older friends account I suppose.
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pretty stupid imo
this is 100% the parents job and no one elses
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On January 29 2012 09:28 PhiliBiRD wrote:
pretty stupid imo
this is 100% the parents job and no one elses
My thoughts exactly.
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This won't affect those serious players.
They can just:
a) Use their parents' SSN
b) Play on non-regulated servers / non-Korean servers
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How will this be enforced? It would be up to parents to inform authorities of their own children's breach of the law. Unless they plan on having a copper sit next to every computer in every underage kids house :S
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And they wonder why these kids want to play games so much..maybe to escape from the reality of studying 6 days a week and being in a class for half of every day. I can't imagine the societal pressure on grades related to success and happiness; seeing as how there are people like me out there who are the opposites of those expectations.
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governments should stay the hell out of people's personal lives. this is a decision between parents and their children; fix the economy, fix relations with north korea, dont tell people how to parent their kids. ridiculous.
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On January 29 2012 09:40 EMIYA wrote:
And they wonder why these kids want to play games so much..maybe to escape from the reality of studying 6 days a week and being in a class for half of every day. I can't imagine the societal pressure on grades related to success and happiness; seeing as how there are people like me out there who are the opposites of those expectations.
Hey man studying for 11-12 hours 6 days a week is good for you. Its not like Korea has high suicide rates or anything.
On January 29 2012 09:37 redDuke wrote:
How will this be enforced? It would be up to parents to inform authorities of their own children's breach of the law. Unless they plan on having a copper sit next to every computer in every underage kids house :S
Since all the big games (WC3, BW, AION, Maple story, LoL, Fifa online etc.) are online based I guess you need to use your SSN to register. Nobody plays more than 3 hours of single player games a day for more than a week.
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On January 29 2012 09:53 Eppa! wrote:Show nested quote +On January 29 2012 09:40 EMIYA wrote:
And they wonder why these kids want to play games so much..maybe to escape from the reality of studying 6 days a week and being in a class for half of every day. I can't imagine the societal pressure on grades related to success and happiness; seeing as how there are people like me out there who are the opposites of those expectations. Hey man studying for 11-12 hours 6 days a week is good for you. Its not like Korea has high suicide rates or anything. Show nested quote +On January 29 2012 09:37 redDuke wrote:
How will this be enforced? It would be up to parents to inform authorities of their own children's breach of the law. Unless they plan on having a copper sit next to every computer in every underage kids house :S Since all the big games (WC3, BW, AION, Maple story, LoL, Fifa online etc.) are online based I guess you need to use your SSN to register. Nobody plays more than 3 hours of single player games a day for more than a week.
I see what you did there!
I'm sure there's a good middle ground for studying, korea just hasn't found it yet.
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On January 29 2012 08:18 solidbebe wrote:
It's only until 18, while there are ofcourse alot of progamers that start before 18, it doesn't limit them to the point where progaming dies in korea.
Not entirely, but tremendously. Majority of players start before they're 18, which means you greatly cut down on the overall pool and depth of the playerbase.
As everyone has already pointed out, the law is excessive by any measure and overstepping its bounds. They're trying to "cure" a very small, potentially non-existent problem by slapping massive regulations on an entire populous.
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BW is safe for the most part because it still has LAN mode, SC2 and what not is fucked for underage pro-gamers if this passes. Is anyone here knowledgeable on how passing bills work in S.Korea? Is this a real possibility?
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How are kids gonna discover their talent for RTS now...
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Mainstream eSports is going to have a massive underground movement to train future Flashes in secret.
Like prohibition in the United States, only made alcohol more appealing and popular, however forced it to exist in an underground/illegal environment.
Well it's one possibility at least.
If i recall Flash started SC when he was around 15, cant' imagine what the scene would be like today if players like him were not able to practice. Then again, I also don't know how many 15 year olds dropped out of school and accomplished nothing significant chasing that dream.
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On January 28 2012 22:59 Zumm wrote:Hi, just found a news in German media and immediatly searched for another source in English. Show nested quote +
It looks like being a young gamer in South Korea is getting tougher and tougher. Last year the country put into effect a "Cinderella Law" that prohibited online gamers 18 and younger from logging in to popular games between the hours of midnight and 6:00 a.m.. Now the government is taking a close look at an additional law limiting the amount of time played each day for minors.
The proposed policy comes from the Ministry of Education, Science and Technology (MEST) and would yank account privileges for minors if they played either more than two hours in a row or more than three hours daily. The MEST is concerned about game addiction in minors, citing that it may come from the duration of play sessions.
The game industry is concerned about possible over-regulation by the government spurred by theories on addiction that haven't been proven. Some are calling for earlier shutdown policies to be overturned if this one is implemented.
Source: http://massively.joystiq.com/2012/01/27/three-hours-and-out-south-korea-considers-additional-gaming-ban/Apparently Korea is creating another gaming law which forbids teenagers under 18 (19 korean age) to play more than 3 hours a day, aswell as not being able to play more than 2 consecutive hours. What do you think will happen if the big companys like Blizzard especially enforce this law due to Korean gov.? Will future players in SC1 and SC2 be even able to emerge with something like this? Sincerely Zumm
Idiotic.
Say I'm 16 and want to play around 6 hours a day, but am only done with school and work at 9pm and the cutoff is 12mn. I'm not going to reduce my playtime to three 3 hours. I'm going to ignore my homework instead. Because I'm a goddamn kid.
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This would be really hard to enforce.
On another note, poor Leenock!! T__T
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God bless America! France already has it's own SOPA and don't get me started about Greece lol. Euros keep coming on here and talking shit about America's government when they are even worse lol. This is the big government 90% of liberal people want, well you got it :D
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51449 Posts
not really going to affect blizzard games.
sc1 players can just lan or go on fish.
sc2 you can just go on the na server and play on there.
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On January 29 2012 12:26 GTR wrote:
not really going to affect blizzard games.
sc1 players can just lan or go on fish.
sc2 you can just go on the na server and play on there.
I can see the headlines "NA now the best server"
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On January 29 2012 12:26 GTR wrote:
not really going to affect blizzard games.
sc1 players can just lan or go on fish.
sc2 you can just go on the na server and play on there.
Having to play on the NA server is hardly a solution
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1019 Posts
On January 29 2012 09:28 PhiliBiRD wrote:
pretty stupid imo
this is 100% the parents job and no one elses
I know this is a popular knee-jerk response to news of laws that ban X or restrict Y, but the reason why the government is stepping up is because parents aren't doing their jobs. Parents are the first line of defense when it comes to things like child obesity or game addiction because they have the most power to control these things but when they don't (and they obviously aren't in this situation) the public sector should be next in line to try to curb negative health effects when it comes to children.
Blame the parents for not doing their job, not the government for trying to do something. This is a much more serious issue than people think it is. Raising a kid is tough work and there are less and less parents these days that live up the required responsibility and discipline.
edit: lobbying is illegal in Korea for those that might care.
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This is all a secret plot by foreigners to lower the skill level in Korea, obviously.
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I don't see the problem in limiting kids play time or having them completely blocked during certain times. This is why the koreans use the SSN's to register for games. Honostly it will only affect a certain amount of the progammers out there that are under the age of xx, or they could just get a TW version and still play unaffected by this block. But still they would literally only have to change their schedule to play during the day instead of all night.
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any idea if this affects professional players?
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On January 29 2012 12:45 Boblhead wrote:
But still they would literally only have to change their schedule to play during the day instead of all night.
I would never pass a law to tell you when to go to bed.
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Pretty dick move, but at least they're limiting freedoms to the benefit of children in a misguided way rather than because there's money in it.
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People get bored of addicting games from playing them too much and burning out.
The KR government feels like they are reducing the amount of time children play games, but really they are making the games even more addicting.
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On January 29 2012 12:41 Mr Showtime wrote:Show nested quote +On January 29 2012 12:26 GTR wrote:
not really going to affect blizzard games.
sc1 players can just lan or go on fish.
sc2 you can just go on the na server and play on there. Having to play on the NA server is hardly a solution
Or get a Taiwan BNet smurf and play on the same server. It's not exactly difficult.
BTW There are also such laws in China, but I don't really play those (actually super lame) 2D MMO so-called "games" so I don't know the exacts, but I think it's pretty draconian. There have been many highly-publicised cases of people playing games too long in PC Cafes and ruining their lives or dying, which I see as Darwin and a bad social fabric at work, but the Communist party decides is the devil of gaming ruining their youthful future generation and therefore must be combated by laws.
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On January 28 2012 23:26 Near1985 wrote:
Progamers still need 6hours sleep + it will just regulate good sleep hours for the gamers
Some odd rationalizing here, this is beyond necessary.
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On January 29 2012 13:05 karis wrote:
any idea if this affects professional players?
Nobody knows right now. This law hasn't even been passed yet. If it does get passed, though, then it's possible that KeSPA or some other e-sports association might be able to convince the Korean government to let the progamers "bypass" the law since it's practically their job to play.
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You see this kind of thing everywhere. The nanny state ideology is prevalent in most Western governments.
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On January 29 2012 12:26 GTR wrote:
not really going to affect blizzard games.
sc1 players can just lan or go on fish.
sc2 you can just go on the na server and play on there.
Or better, they buy the TW account and play with that (since TW account = KR server) since playing NA server in korea is laggy.
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I understand that this is well meaning but it's too intrusive. At the very least, the parent should be able to sign a waiver.
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it would suck for them if the law was passed, but game addiction is very real and it does more harm than good down the line when kids sacrifice education and other opportunities in life.
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My grandfather stepped on a landmine in the Korean War. I'd like to think he didn't die so that you guys could oppress your citizens. I'm personally offended by this ridiculous, tyrannical proposition.
You might as well just rejoin with North Korea if you're going to pull this totalitarian bullshit.
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And how are they supposed to measure the total gaming time? They might be able to restrict total time per individual games to 3 hours, but 3 hours for all games total is impossible. Anyway. Ppl will just play more offline, and play other games online. This is so stupid and a step back for freedom. South Korea should know better, since they have the greatest freedom violator on their doorstep.
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Some less than capable parents want the govern to take action instead of themselves, i do not know who makes and account of age under 18 nowadays anyway....
It seems like an excuse for stupid parents to "justify" not letting there children play games by forcing them to make-18 accounts instead of just setting parental control... or just freaking reasoning with the kids.
God the human race this days, if it was USA or some European country but a civilized Asian country TT, i always had a really good view of them compared to the rest of the world in terms of education/logic but the more i follow things related to sc2 ( and thus Korea) the more i think of the average person there to be as dumb as in any other 1st world country.
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On January 29 2012 12:41 white_horse wrote:Show nested quote +On January 29 2012 09:28 PhiliBiRD wrote:
pretty stupid imo
this is 100% the parents job and no one elses I know this is a popular knee-jerk response to news of laws that ban X or restrict Y, but the reason why the government is stepping up is because parents aren't doing their jobs. Parents are the first line of defense when it comes to things like child obesity or game addiction because they have the most power to control these things but when they don't (and they obviously aren't in this situation) the public sector should be next in line to try to curb negative health effects when it comes to children. Blame the parents for not doing their job, not the government for trying to do something. This is a much more serious issue than people think it is. Raising a kid is tough work and there are less and less parents these days that live up the required responsibility and discipline. edit: lobbying is illegal in Korea for those that might care.
Adding onto what white_horse is saying:
Parents are the ones who are supposed to do the job.
Parents let a child die while playing video games in Korea
hmm?
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Well, on the off chance that this eventually passes and drives Korean players onto NA or EU servers, it would probably be incredibally beneficial to the non-korean scene
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On January 29 2012 14:10 Wolvmatt. wrote:
My grandfather stepped on a landmine in the Korean War. I'd like to think he didn't die so that you guys could oppress your citizens. I'm personally offended by this ridiculous, tyrannical proposition.
You might as well just rejoin with North Korea if you're going to pull this totalitarian bullshit.
You have no idea what the word "totalitarian" means if you think the worst it can do is limit the video game play time of minors. Let's keep that in mind here, folks. It's not as though they're limiting the rights of full grown adult citizens. The parallels between that and having a "drinking age" seem pretty consistent if you buy that gaming is an addiction.
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how can even police this is beyond me. pointless law
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On January 28 2012 23:04 Soleron wrote:
Doesn't Kespa have any lobbying power? If Korea wants the world to see their culture through Starcraft, this needs to not happen.
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Not really they have k-pop
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If this happens I think a lot of future bonjwas might just disappear.
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That's fucking stupid. Nothing else to say.
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I think it's good actually. As much as gaming for hours is fun, it's not exactly the best thing you can do for multiple reasons.
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I'd like to say it's stupid but korea has a gaming problem
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On February 01 2012 10:33 Zapdos_Smithh wrote:
I think it's good actually. As much as gaming for hours is fun, it's not exactly the best thing you can do for multiple reasons.
Why does the government decide what you can do and how much? It's your life and not their life.
Some people don't have alot of hobbies or friends just think about that (no troll).
Also gaming for more then 3 hours doesn't affect you at all.
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On January 28 2012 23:21 HaXXspetten wrote:
Why is the government trying to play parents? It's up to every mother and father to decide these kind of things.
How naïve was that... If in a country, online gaming spreads and becomes too popular amongst very young population, it is dangerous for lots of them, because they dont have the experience to yet decide if it is good for them. And of course it should be parents task, but we dont live in a perfect world, far from it, some kids reject completely their parents authority and there is nothing they can do, some others just got really naive and too nice parents who cant tell to their kid when to stop.
It is weird to see a government getting into this, but frankly it is a good thing. There is this unlimited devotion that tend to be noticed in some rare cases in Asia, where kids end up dead because they forget to eat playing online. China, South Korea, this happened, more than other countries, if it can be avoided and regulated, it's sad that it has to come to such measures, but some 14 years old kid could ruin their lives isolating themselves on games.
And yeah some completely responsible and wise young men will get fucked by these laws, including many progamers, for who there should be some special legislation status about those things, when you win as much as MVP or Nestea, you cant deny it is a working category with specific needs.
But I gotta say, if it can save some illusioned kids, or even the ones that are badly living their teenage years and invest all their life into games, fuck yeah it's worth it if it can save a few
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if someone dies from playing video games because they don't eat or drink for like 3 days or whatever, then they are very unintelligent and i would not want that person to be driving a motor vehicle or anything like that. they deserve a darwin award...
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My philosophy is that government is too incompetent to try to parent someone, if the parents failed, that person is fucked, no law is gonna save you from bad parenting.
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How to they actually enforce this? I don't see how they can possibly know how much time someone is gaming, let a lot whether or not the person online is a minor.
Does anyone know how they do/plan to do it? Or is this something that wont really be enforced.
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This shouldn't be happening in the first place unless the parents are worthless and spend no time with their kids every night with work as an excuse. Korean are clueless as to why kids are playing so much games. This kind of law would makes China seem like Hippy state ran by Canadian radicals compared to S.Korea. Disappointed and irresponsible parenting should be to blame here.
Also the Korean MMO industry is far from blame either, if anyone has played any of them before you would know the excruciating amount of grinding time these game forces the player to commit to in order to stay competitive in the gaming world. Think WoW except it takes 3-4 times longer to get item you want, and better/more competitive pvp, resulting in a gear grinding "arms race."
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On January 29 2012 02:14 DDie wrote:Show nested quote +On January 29 2012 02:09 Tiegrr wrote:On January 29 2012 02:08 DDie wrote:On January 29 2012 02:03 Tiegrr wrote:On January 29 2012 01:22 pebblebeach wrote:
It's a good law, there's no point in having people waste their lives playing games when they should be studying and making their path in the world. Do you consider professional athletes not making their path in the world either? You could say they're wasting their lives practicing and exercising for sports events that have nothing to do with life other than for entertainment. Sure you can say they're "exercising and being healthy", but you can do that by going to the gym for 1-2 hours a day and eating well. What I'm saying is that e-sports and physical sport athletes are very similar in that they contribute to entertainment in their own careers and your argument doesn't make any sense. 11 year old kid football training: 3 hours a day, at best. 11 year old ''progammer'': 8 hours a day, in a bad day. I don't know a single 11 year old pro gamer. Do you? Youngest I've ever seen is 14. And there's kids that practice American Football after school and before school everyday for up to 4 hours. (I won't compare other sports because I don't have any experience in those.) Thats why i used the '' ''. Progaming is very, VERY different than other sports because it is a lot harder to make a living of it, it requires a lot more work than other sports,(a footballer doesn't train +10 hours a day, those are normal for a progamer), not to mention you have to be the absolute best to make it big. What i mean is, you can't compare them, they are different situations.
Clearly you have never played professional football or aspired to become a professional footballer. These kids do nothing but practice all day, they go to special schools where they only follow 1-2 lessons a day. They have practice in the morning, the afternoon and most of the time they have to take some running schedules in the late afternoon-evening. For the rest of the time they're busy with their sport in another way, strategy, media training, relaxation (masseusing etc) and are worrying about their diets. If you are an aspiring professional football player, you have time for basically NOTHING else. You can't go out with your friends, you can't have a beer, you are training basically the entire day except for a few hours of school. They also have a very tight sleeping schedule, their lives in fact gets regulated so much by the club they're registered with.
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On July 12 2012 00:59 wcr.4fun wrote:Show nested quote +On January 29 2012 02:14 DDie wrote:On January 29 2012 02:09 Tiegrr wrote:On January 29 2012 02:08 DDie wrote:On January 29 2012 02:03 Tiegrr wrote:On January 29 2012 01:22 pebblebeach wrote:
It's a good law, there's no point in having people waste their lives playing games when they should be studying and making their path in the world. Do you consider professional athletes not making their path in the world either? You could say they're wasting their lives practicing and exercising for sports events that have nothing to do with life other than for entertainment. Sure you can say they're "exercising and being healthy", but you can do that by going to the gym for 1-2 hours a day and eating well. What I'm saying is that e-sports and physical sport athletes are very similar in that they contribute to entertainment in their own careers and your argument doesn't make any sense. 11 year old kid football training: 3 hours a day, at best. 11 year old ''progammer'': 8 hours a day, in a bad day. I don't know a single 11 year old pro gamer. Do you? Youngest I've ever seen is 14. And there's kids that practice American Football after school and before school everyday for up to 4 hours. (I won't compare other sports because I don't have any experience in those.) Thats why i used the '' ''. Progaming is very, VERY different than other sports because it is a lot harder to make a living of it, it requires a lot more work than other sports,(a footballer doesn't train +10 hours a day, those are normal for a progamer), not to mention you have to be the absolute best to make it big. What i mean is, you can't compare them, they are different situations. Clearly you have never played professional football or aspired to become a professional footballer. These kids do nothing but practice all day, they go to special schools where they only follow 1-2 lessons a day. They have practice in the morning, the afternoon and most of the time they have to take some running schedules in the late afternoon-evening. For the rest of the time they're busy with their sport in another way, strategy, media training, relaxation (masseusing etc) and are worrying about their diets. If you are an aspiring professional football player, you have time for basically NOTHING else. You can't go out with your friends, you can't have a beer, you are training basically the entire day except for a few hours of school. They also have a very tight sleeping schedule, their lives in fact gets regulated so much by the club they're registered with.
I know a couple of people in my college who are on the college football team. And...yea that is a bit overexaggerated.
They do have time to enjoy themselves else it would be counterproductive for the body and health.
On a very blunt note:
Progammers tend to spend more time of their day to practice their craft than athletes. HOWEVER I am not saying one is better than the other. That would be me stating oranges are better than apples (although I do like oranges more than apples).
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EPT
