EPTHaditha Massacre - Page 8
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SlyPanda
United States25 Posts
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KryptoStorm
England377 Posts
On January 25 2012 10:35 SlyPanda wrote: I think that the men here should have had a much harsher punishment. If it was indeed manslaughter then life in prison seems about right. People say they were reacting in the "fog of war" or after seeing another soldier blown apart but they are trained for the very purpose of staying composed and not killing anything or anyone that moves. I think the above excuses are weak excuses but thats just my opinion. I support our troops, I'm American btw, but the actions by the soldiers and courts are ridiculous for this case. Manslaughter, isn't manslaughter when you accidentally kill someone...? They invaded 3 seperate houses and shot 20 odd unarmed, men women and children to death... | ||
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acker
United States2958 Posts
A US marine who admitted charges linked to the killing of 24 unarmed Iraqi civilians in 2005 should face no time in detention, a judge has recommended. The decision by the judge at Camp Pendleton, California, must be approved by the commander of the Marine Corps Forces Central Command. Sgt Frank Wuterich faced a maximum of three months after admitting dereliction of duty in a plea deal. He was one of eight marines charged over the killings at Haditha. The charges against six were dropped or dismissed, and one was acquitted. Military judge Lt Col David Jones said his hands had been tied by the terms of the plea agreement. However, he said he would recommend that Wuterich's rank be reduced to private. The judge said he had decided not to dock the marine's pay because Wuterich is divorced with sole custody of his three young children. Prosecutors had asked that Wuterich receive the maximum sentence of three months confinement, reduction in rank and forfeiture of two-thirds of his pay. | ||
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Eben
United States769 Posts
On January 24 2012 08:47 NtroP wrote: Thank goodness there are no plans to end our war on terrorism! Otherwise the majority of Americans abroad might be liable for their actions.... Where do you get a 'majority' of american's abroad from? Do you honestly think of the millions of troops deployed that more than half of them are committing war crimes? | ||
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mcc
Czech Republic4646 Posts
So in the end the sentence seems light anyway, but he was really only a scapegoat. And this incident just shows how deeply covering up crimes is rooted in US military and military justice system. Total joke of an investigation cannot easily be explained as isolated incident not reflecting on the whole as it is far from the only incident in very recent past that shows that punishing war crimes and crimes in general of the military are not a priority for the military if the victims are outside of military and not high-profile enough to warrant public outcry in the media and public. | ||
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SerpentFlame
418 Posts
On January 25 2012 02:34 zalz wrote: The good old Ron Paul commerical approach. What if Chinese forces were executing babies, live, on the evening news in Holland? Well I do believe I would disagree with such an action, perhaps send an angry letter or two. Take my money, take all of it. I wish i had a hundred legs so i could lose them a hundred times over. I value my freedom of speech more then money or health. Living isn't even worth it if I was not allowed to speak my mind. But maybe trinkets and money are all it takes for you to shelve over your freedom. A free hospital here and a free education there and you will sing whatever song the great leader wants you to sing, dance any dance he wants you to dance. Saddam killed more people then the Iraq war did. Even if we disregard all the murders in his prisons, all the political executions, all the deaths by torture. Saddam committed a genocide on the Kurdish people, causing easily as many victims as the Iraq war did. Saddam started a war with Iran and a war with Kuwait. Not in a hundred year? Saddam had already caused many times over the ammount of casualties from the Iraq war. They were lucky, the USSR hesitated. Saddam and his regime didn't hestitate. Any signs of an uprising were broken. Broken being a euphemism for the torture of everyone that took part and their families just to make a point. I wouldn't live in Iraq, obviously. Why would I want to live in a country that has a lower standard of living and less freedom? Maybe in 10-20 years I want to live in Iraq. Saddam Hussein killed hundreds of thousands of Kurds. The US supported him while doing it. Yes, including George W. Bush. HW and Congressional Republicans gave the veto-threat on the anti-genocide bill pushed by Al Gore in Congress while the genocide was happening in real time. That was in the 1990s, without major incidents since. What we could have said was look: if he kills again on that scale, we're going in. We're going to beat the shit out of him. But if he doesn't, no need to kill 200,000+ civilians. If American command really valued democracy, they would listen to it: and the people would tell you loud and clear: we don't want you here. I notice you make a snide drive-by diss to Ron Paul's commercial without actually critiquing it. If I killed a person every day since the days of Columbus, I wouldn't have killed as many people that died in Iraq. You're the perfect example of an armchair warrior who doesn't actually weigh the consequences of action, simply asserting that because Saddam killed people, we had the right to go in and kill him regardless of the consequences. Yes he deserved to die. But the US shouldn't have killed hundreds of thousands of people to do it. And it's easy to say that someone else should die for their freedoms, as long as you're not the one dying. Oh sure, you know, great visionaries in the world died for freedom in the past. But they led a people who chose that path. The US gave no such courtesy to Iraq. Nobody wanted that. Also more to the article's point, I would agree that greater prosecution should happen; the punishment should really fit the crime. The lack of evidence of course, stops this, but I would hope that testimonies from fellow soldiers would serve as sufficient evidence... | ||
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redviper
Pakistan2333 Posts
The judge said he had decided not to dock the marine's pay because Wuterich is divorced with sole custody of his three young children so no pay decrease either and apparently a mass murderer doesn't even lose custody of his children. He doesn't even get 3 months in prison. American, the land of the free indeed. Free of responsibility for the murderer of children. | ||
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DeepElemBlues
United States5079 Posts
Seems you people have no problem throwing away the legal system when its so called "terrorists" here. Indefinite detention, due process free assassination, drone strikes, renditions are all evidence that Americans don't give a shit about justice, they only give a shit about protecting their own and killing the "others". I was going to make a point about this, but you made it even beautifully. You'd deny to soldiers what you'd give to terrorists, which pretty much says it all. Both are tried in military courts, both have lawyers, your problem is you'd rather soldiers get the shaft and terrorists get the technicality route to freedom. This verdict does mean that Iraqi lives are less valued. The fact that he wasn't even discharged from the military after 6 others were given immunity to prosecute this one guy is a testament to the fact that the UCMJ is a piece of trash. A Pakistani talking about valuing human life is pretty much one of the biggest jokes you can find. User was temp banned for this post. | ||
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amd098
Korea (North)1366 Posts
On January 26 2012 01:07 DeepElemBlues wrote: I was going to make a point about this, but you made it even beautifully. You'd deny to soldiers what you'd give to terrorists, which pretty much says it all. Both are tried in military courts, both have lawyers, your problem is you'd rather soldiers get the shaft and terrorists get the technicality route to freedom. A Pakistani talking about valuing human life is pretty much one of the biggest jokes you can find. wow. i am ashamed to have you as my fellow American. | ||
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Undrass
Norway381 Posts
After 22 of july, there was a massive thread where (mostly Americans) argued that Norwegian law was too soft. They argued that Breivik should suffer the death penalty. Well, I guess massacre isn't so bad if its Americans doing it. | ||
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redviper
Pakistan2333 Posts
On January 26 2012 01:07 DeepElemBlues wrote: I was going to make a point about this, but you made it even beautifully. You'd deny to soldiers what you'd give to terrorists, which pretty much says it all. Both are tried in military courts, both have lawyers, your problem is you'd rather soldiers get the shaft and terrorists get the technicality route to freedom. A Pakistani talking about valuing human life is pretty much one of the biggest jokes you can find. User was temp banned for this post. I am also American actually so yes both my countries are guilty of being extremely dickish to the rest of the world  Doesn't mean that I support either terrorists or soldiers. Just like I think that if OBL had been acquitted it would have been a travesty of justice I think this is a travesty of justice. I don't support due process free sentences. I also don't support admitted murderers getting away with it. Why give 6 people immunity to make a no-time served plea deal? Try them all. Let them be acquitted if thats how the chips fall. The half hearted prosecution as a single event would be bad, but there is a pattern of low balling the punishments for war criminals and that is a blight on the sincerity of justice in the country. | ||
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ddrddrddrddr
1344 Posts
On January 25 2012 10:45 KryptoStorm wrote: Manslaughter, isn't manslaughter when you accidentally kill someone...? They invaded 3 separate houses and shot 20 odd unarmed, men women and children to death... ... accidentally. They need to take better maintenance of their guns, so you're saying? It's alright since they're not even going to be paying for accidentally killing people. | ||
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Chilling5pr33
Germany518 Posts
Training should be improved and psychological tests for persons in charge of a squad. That said he already get punished but still it should be watched carefully and maybe from now on the sentences will be a bit higher. Im happy there was a investigation and his military career is over after that. Hopefully this wont repead in the future it destabilise the trust people might have gotten till that point in time. | ||
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Chanted
Norway1001 Posts
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mcc
Czech Republic4646 Posts
On January 26 2012 09:34 Chilling5pr33 wrote: War will never be "clean" and if a friend gets killed just infront of your eyes it may charge you, to do something unlogical and cruel. Training should be improved and psychological tests for persons in charge of a squad. That said he already get punished but still it should be watched carefully and maybe from now on the sentences will be a bit higher. Im happy there was a investigation and his military career is over after that. Hopefully this wont repead in the future it destabilise the trust people might have gotten till that point in time. Except how the actual killers went free because of botched investigation and attempted coverup by authorities. This guy was not even the one that killed anyone. His particular case is not even the biggest problem. Biggest problem is how badly the investigation was done and how the actual killers went free without any sort of punishment. | ||
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Chilling5pr33
Germany518 Posts
On January 26 2012 13:01 mcc wrote: Except how the actual killers went free because of botched investigation and attempted coverup by authorities. This guy was not even the one that killed anyone. His particular case is not even the biggest problem. Biggest problem is how badly the investigation was done and how the actual killers went free without any sort of punishment. yeah that sounds more like that what i heared before about cases close to this one But what was he doing? Was he the wistleblower on that incident? | ||
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mcc
Czech Republic4646 Posts
On January 27 2012 12:22 Chilling5pr33 wrote: yeah that sounds more like that what i heared before about cases close to this one But what was he doing? Was he the wistleblower on that incident? He was a commanding the men that did that, but as far as is known did not participate and probably even did not know at the time what was happening. But after the fact it seems he tried to cover up the incident to protect them. | ||
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Keyboard Warrior
United States1178 Posts
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Diks
Belgium1880 Posts
Now, If an iraqi went to kill 24 unarmed americans wouldn't he be a terrorist and they could assassinate and bomb the shit out of him creating the pretext that american citizen have higher life value ? This is so immoral, but nothing surprises me anymore from US military | ||
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mcc
Czech Republic4646 Posts
On January 28 2012 02:09 Diks wrote: I'm totally shocked, I don't even know what to say... killing 24 iraqis suddenly became less dangerous than stealing or pirating... Now, If an iraqi went to kill 24 unarmed americans wouldn't he be a terrorist and they could assassinate and bomb the shit out of him creating the pretext that american citizen have higher life value ? This is so immoral, but nothing surprises me anymore from US military That particular guy actually did not kill anyone with high likelihood. He still got off too lightly for his part in the whole issue, but the real issue is how can US military justice be (on purpose or not) so incompetent as not to be able to prosecute this at least somewhat professionally. | ||
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