EPTRaped, impregnated, then jailed - Page 12
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GreEny K
Germany7312 Posts
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FJ
United Kingdom321 Posts
Stuff like this happens a fair bit, and it isn't too much to do with religion as it is the attitude of the people. There are some strictly religious based rulings made, for example, beating your wife is ok sometimes according to the religious law, althougth, and women being raped and it being 'their fault from bringing it on' is more just the attitude towards women, and not so much because their religion says it's ok. | ||
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Shiragaku
Hong Kong4308 Posts
Do you remember the foreign policy of the US? It was pretty shitty On November 24 2011 05:45 Ashworth wrote: The most ignorant thing I have ever read... Do you understand what the Crusades were? How many countless homosexuals have been killed by Christians in America because of their religion. The KKK. World War 2, Hitler doing "gods work"? 9/11? Catholics lying about condoms CAUSING AIDS and as a result killing millions. Less than 2 weeks ago a Christian terrorist tried to kill Obama in the name of God. You need to educate yourself. I believe that the lack of education causes people to be bigoted, not religion. I have studied about this quite a bit. But of course it can be said that being uneducated makes you religious so *shrugs* To say that it was simply religion all along just seems too...simple. The answer was so fucking obvious all along! Something about that seems wrong. | ||
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Brotatolol
United States1742 Posts
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Kamikiri
United States1319 Posts
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Shiragaku
Hong Kong4308 Posts
On November 24 2011 05:49 zalz wrote: I honestly don't understand how people can still try and brush this off as not religion inspired and suggesting that it has nothing to do with religion. Locking up the rape victim happens in Afghanistan, Pakistan, Iran, Saudi-Arabia, it's very prevalent in the muslim world. Ofcourse not every single muslim believes this stuff but you can't seriously suggest that this has nothing to do with islam. Well, the people are rather uneducated. I am not saying that religion has nothing to do with it and say it was economics which I use to believe. For example during the Crusades, the Italian merchants loaded their ships not with the riches of the Middle East, but rather dirt meant to bury those who died in Italy which had no monetary value but lots of spiritual value which still lacks any practical purpose. And looking at the Khmer Rouge, I do not think it is religion, but rather an unhealthy obsession with an ideology whether it is Islam, Christianity, or Communism. And looking at the brutality of the Soviets, they were secular and allowed equal rights for women. Perhaps it is far-left ideology that allowed this, maybe the lack of religion but they did things that were incredibly evil and brutal that it made many in Russia believe that all this happened because God was not there which I do not thing is true at all. | ||
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zalz
Netherlands3704 Posts
On November 24 2011 05:54 JiYan wrote: can anyone find the Afghanistan perspective on this? does anyone know if this is as disgusting over there as it is to us over here? or is it like another day in the judicial system to them like a drug addict getting 5 years for us. If people there actually think this is normal, i would really like to hear their perspective on how they think this is fair, moral, or even logical. Afghanistan is a tribal society. There isn't really much of a concencus on anything because the very national identity of "Afghanistan" barely exists. That said, overall if you could get someone to go door to door (or hut to hut i suppose) to poll the people you would find an overwhelming majority of the people voting yes. The women won't be allowd to vote, either their fathers, husbands or yes even their sons, will keep them "in line". Women who are born in Afghanistan are treated as more or less livestock. Men herd the cattle that they hunger after and in the same fashion they control the women they lust after. They must wear a burqa and they are not allowed to follow an education. A women born in Afghanistan will live and die whilst never hearing anything other then that she is inferior to a man. She will not even learn to read so she will never ever be able to break this brainwashing with enlightend literature. Her entire surrounding from men to fellow brainwashed women will tell her "this is normal, this is how it is supposed to be" and in due time she will tell her fellow Afghanistani women that this is how life is supposed to be. Women in Afghanistan live in a society that tells them they only live to serve men and they will never learn to read and as such never be able to connect with the outside world and learn from other cultures. Afghanistan is an example how an idiotic medieval culture can hold a country enslaved. The kind of brainwashing where the people are left begging for more. | ||
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lessQQmorePEWPEW
Jamaica921 Posts
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randoomguy
Sweden82 Posts
the americans have done far worse things to under developmentet countries.+that its ridiculous to judge a country/religon etc from 1 event | ||
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SafeAsCheese
United States4924 Posts
It's like certain areas of the world just cannot "advance". Be it culture or religion holding them back. The only way to fix that sort of problem is a total invasion of that nation and forced institutionalization, but no country in the world has the right to do that yet. | ||
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zalz
Netherlands3704 Posts
Well, the people are rather uneducated. I am not saying that religion has nothing to do with it and say it was economics which I use to believe. For example during the Crusades, the Italian merchants loaded their ships not with the riches of the Middle East, but rather dirt meant to bury those who died in Italy. And looking at the Khmer Rouge, I do not think it is religion, but rather an unhealthy obsession with an ideology whether it is Islam, Christianity, or Communism? The question is not whether or not this is good or wrong. The question is, is this a perversion of the message? There is a religion called Janism. This religion revolves completly around non-violence against all living things. If a Janist blows himself up in a busy market square killing a hundred people, he is obviously perverting the message. If a capitalist demands that the state controls all means to production then he is obviously distorting the ideology. If you kill an insane ammount of people then you are not distorting the ideology of communism. One of the largest problems with communism is that it advocates the expulsion of the captialist class but it never defines how to deal with those that disagree with the communist message. Communism is not a system that allows people to not take part in it. You can live in a capitalist society and be a socialist. You can't live in a communist society and be a capitalist, the system only works if everyone takes part. The communist doctrine never acknowledges how to get rid of these elements. Do you ban them? Do you kill them? That is left up for personal reading. Now we come down to the crux of the debate, islam. When throwing women in jail that are raped, are they acting against islam, the teachings of islam and the doctrine of islam? The answer is no, they are not. They are acting in accordance to their religion. Some people will argue a different reading but you cannot deny that their reading is as valid as any other. It is not like the case with the Janist that is doing a direct 180 on the beliefs. So it is not a group of people that are following a perverted version of islam. Just a group of people following a different but valid reading of islam. As such the faith of islam can be held accountable because it preaches this behaviour. | ||
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randoomguy
Sweden82 Posts
On November 24 2011 05:59 FJ wrote: I live in the Middle East and have been coming here for 10+ years, so I know the attitude. Stuff like this happens a fair bit, and it isn't too much to do with religion as it is the attitude of the people. There are some strictly religious based rulings made, for example, beating your wife is ok sometimes according to the religious law, althougth, and women being raped and it being 'their fault from bringing it on' is more just the attitude towards women, and not so much because their religion says it's ok. their is even EU countries that think it is ok to hit shilds for raising them,so i can understand your opinion a little but in many parts of the world stuff like this happened and lets not forget that the attidude towards women come from years of religion | ||
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furerkip
United States439 Posts
On November 23 2011 22:14 Zvek wrote: What is disgusting is all the posters here on TL taking the "moral high ground". Really, what do we/you know about culture/justice? I say they can handle on their own. Our disgust over it, no matter what it is, is a product of ignorance, or worse unchecked elitism. This cultural difference occur everywhere, why should Afganistan be singled out? In the USA, you can divorce, which is totally inhumane and completely idiotic for the Arabs. Not to mention all the wars the US has started in the name of "democracy". In some tribes in Africa, the boys are introduced to adulthood by making them have sex with their sisters, and drink the semen of older men. Let them solve their "situation/problem". Keep your judgment to yourself. I don't quite understand, are you saying we shouldn't try to make everyone a better human, including ourselves? Or are you saying "hypocrites!", just because we have problems that are similar but not on the same scale, we shouldn't fix those incorrections? I have a hard time agreeing with that. | ||
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Shiragaku
Hong Kong4308 Posts
On November 24 2011 06:17 zalz wrote: The question is not whether or not this is good or wrong. The question is, is this a perversion of the message? There is a religion called Janism. This religion revolves completly around non-violence against all living things. If a Janist blows himself up in a busy market square killing a hundred people, he is obviously perverting the message. If a capitalist demands that the state controls all means to production then he is obviously distorting the ideology. If you kill an insane ammount of people then you are not distorting the ideology of communism. One of the largest problems with communism is that it advocates the expulsion of the captialist class but it never defines how to deal with those that disagree with the communist message. Communism is not a system that allows people to not take part in it. You can live in a capitalist society and be a socialist. You can't live in a communist society and be a capitalist, the system only works if everyone takes part. The communist doctrine never acknowledges how to get rid of these elements. Do you ban them? Do you kill them? That is left up for personal reading. Now we come down to the crux of the debate, islam. When throwing women in jail that are raped, are they acting against islam, the teachings of islam and the doctrine of islam? The answer is no, they are not. They are acting in accordance to their religion. Some people will argue a different reading but you cannot deny that their reading is as valid as any other. It is not like the case with the Janist that is doing a direct 180 on the beliefs. So it is not a group of people that are following a perverted version of islam. Just a group of people following a different but valid reading of islam. As such the faith of islam can be held accountable because it preaches this behaviour. Yes, I agree with you 100 percent. But I know female Muslims and gay Muslims who use the Quaran to justify their rights, just as there are Christian women and Christian gays who use the Bible to prove that God does not hate them and they make very strong points. So in that context, you are absolutely right, but my experience with these women and homosexuals is that the text can be twisted in such a manner that it can tolerate anything and condemn anything. And as for Communism, I do not think many of them would say that a mass genocide is what Marx would have wanted but that is a different story. | ||
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Hittomogasin
Finland80 Posts
On November 24 2011 06:14 SafeAsCheese wrote: It's insane when you compare a city like Tokyo or Seoul or NYC to Paris to a country like Afghanistan It's like certain areas of the world just cannot "advance". Be it culture or religion holding them back. The only way to fix that sort of problem is a total invasion of that nation and forced institutionalization, but no country in the world has the right to do that yet. Ya, lets solve violence with more violence. Derp. >_> Attacking them would only make muslim world more agressive. Maybe in future more irrational groups get their hands on some nuclear weapons and force the hand of western/eastern powers. Its a grim thought. | ||
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firehand101
Australia3152 Posts
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SafeAsCheese
United States4924 Posts
On November 24 2011 06:22 Hittomogasin wrote: Ya, lets solve violence with more violence. Derp. >_> Attacking them would only make muslim world more agressive. Maybe in future more irrational groups get their hands on some nuclear weapons and force the hand of western/eastern powers. Its a grim thought. The middle east has barely changed in the last thousand years. It's never going to unless other countries force it to. | ||
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Orcasgt24
Canada3238 Posts
On November 23 2011 20:38 Gnial wrote: Upon reading more closely, he was in fact convicted of rape. And the incarceration of the victim is a regular practice, apparently, which is terrible. And completly illogical. Imagine if this played out on NA soil, the public backlash could topple a government. | ||
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randoomguy
Sweden82 Posts
On November 24 2011 06:14 SafeAsCheese wrote: It's insane when you compare a city like Tokyo or Seoul or NYC to Paris to a country like Afghanistan It's like certain areas of the world just cannot "advance". Be it culture or religion holding them back. The only way to fix that sort of problem is a total invasion of that nation and forced institutionalization, but no country in the world has the right to do that yet. it took many countries like more than it takes them to change now for example sweden took like 300 years before it became (moderate justified)but lets remember that those countries are still unadvanced in tech compared to us so they are actually changing way faster then us as they did more in 10 years than many did in 100 | ||
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zalz
Netherlands3704 Posts
On November 24 2011 06:23 SafeAsCheese wrote: The middle east has barely changed in the last thousand years. It's never going to unless other countries force it to. The middle-east has actually changed a great deal in the span of a 1000 years. I don't see any reason why someone would claim that the middle-east has not changed. I would argue that it has changed for the worse. Where it was once the pinacle of human society at the time it has since fallen to be one of the worst. | ||
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