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On November 24 2011 04:08 Sea_Food wrote:Show nested quote +On November 24 2011 03:59 Count9 wrote:
I'm impressed and scared that there are humans in this world that look at that ruling and think justice has been served, not to mention the people who actually handed out that sentence. An omnipotent god said that the rules that they have are correct. The people who handed out that sentence had no reason to think what is right or wrong, when they can read from their holy book that what they are doing is in fact the right thing to do.
Sounds almost like American politics and the Constitution 
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On November 23 2011 23:03 Sickkiee wrote:Show nested quote +On November 23 2011 22:58 JesusOurSaviour wrote:On November 23 2011 22:51 Vorenius wrote:On November 23 2011 22:42 JesusOurSaviour wrote:On November 23 2011 22:34 CaptainCrush wrote:On November 23 2011 22:14 Zvek wrote:
What is disgusting is all the posters here on TL taking the "moral high ground".
Really, what do we/you know about culture/justice? I say they can handle on their own. Our disgust over it, no matter what it is, is a product of ignorance, or worse unchecked elitism. This cultural difference occur everywhere, why should Afganistan be singled out? In the USA, you can divorce, which is totally inhumane and completely idiotic for the Arabs. Not to mention all the wars the US has started in the name of "democracy". In some tribes in Africa, the boys are introduced to adulthood by making them have sex with their sisters, and drink the semen of older men.
Let them solve their "situation/problem". Keep your judgment to yourself. In all the time I have spent browsing team liquid, this is one of the most uneducated and ridiculously WRONG posts I have seen. Wrong on so many places that I dont even know where to start....You may actually be part of the problem if you think this is just an example of a cultural difference. So then CaptainCrush, what is your solution? Tell those countries Shari'a laws are wrong? Good luck. Good luck as a Dhimmi who has somehow subverted his position in their ideal islamic society and oppressed the Righteous muslims (for muslims see white people as a collective, as an entire Christian kingdom which has subjugated the muslim world for a long time). You most likely are not Christian (95% of TL-ers are not bible believing Christians). But they see you as one. And they think you're just dirt. You will be destroyed in the end. Muslims are taught from young that Islam and Allah are the truth. Everything else is false, lesser and demonic. Allah will destroy all the pigs (Jews and ChristiansWhite people) in the end. : )) Welcome to Islam You could substitute 'muslim' for 'christian' and then 'white people' for 'non-christian' and have an equally objective descreption of bible believing christians. Yes for the destruction/judgement part, no for everything else. God wants all to come to repentance. And the God of this universe is not some detached God who doesn't care about anything (islamic Allah) but one who came to earth to be ridiculed by those who sinned against Him, scourged, and pay for our sins on the cross. One whose name is Love. One who created the world in love and made us in His image. The islamic Allah for anyone who is well versed in the Qu'ran, is not a loving God. Nor did he create us in his image. He is described as an impersonal God, detached emotionally, unreachable, indescribable and like no human. To say otherwise is blasphemy. He also does not have a definite way of dealing with sin, but arbitrarily lets people up into heaven, others into destruction. a muslim is not guaranteed salvation. His best hope is to follow the pillars and do his prayers every day and hope Allah has mercy on him. With the post (can't find it for the life of me LOL) of which you said Muslims think of white people etc as dirt. To an extent, I think that's true also. Obviously, the ones raised in Australia, America etc won't certainly have that mindset, but if you go over to Afghanistan or of the likes, I do think that is the sentiment they have of us. I also do know a few Muslims in my area that think like that. That Christians ( I am Roman Catholic, however not believing) will all go to hell, regardless if you believe or not. That is a negative aspect of their faith, no matter how people spin it.
Uh... I was raised Roman Catholic and while they never emphasized that part of the faith. I know in other places Christianity has the same premise that no matter how good they are if they don't believe in god they will all go to hell. So its not just Islam.
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On November 23 2011 20:43 DarkRise wrote:
Wow really? The problem is that she didn't report it so ofc it was consented as mutual and not RAPE. But still the laws are so silly and disgusting. Although i would like to have a law that prosecute adultery here in US and not just get away with "divorce".
So many things about your post is flat out disturbing and ignorant, it scares me that people like you can vote in this country.
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On November 24 2011 04:10 FabledIntegral wrote:Show nested quote +On November 23 2011 20:43 DarkRise wrote:
Wow really? The problem is that she didn't report it so ofc it was consented as mutual and not RAPE. But still the laws are so silly and disgusting. Although i would like to have a law that prosecute adultery here in US and not just get away with "divorce". So many things about your post is flat out disturbing and ignorant, it scares me that people like you can vote in this country.
Do you think he's serious?
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On November 24 2011 03:59 DeepElemBlues wrote:Show nested quote +You'll have to elaborate that.
Pre-christian high cultures (ancient Rome and Greece) had a much further developed system of basically anything, especially regarding law and ethics. Christianity was a huge setback humanity as a whole. You really can't be serious. It was the fall of Rome and Mongoloid groups pushing Germans from East to Central to Western Europe that caused the deterioration of society, not Christianity. The Volkerwanderung? From ~400 to ~1000 in Europe the Roman Catholic Church was the only organization keeping reading, writing, law and ethics alive. And the idea that ethics deteriorated from some higher level that existed in Roman times is pure fantasy, at least among the nobility there was no such deterioration, they stayed the same. Show nested quote +If you compare 100 bc. and the middles ages, you will notices that the latter had more advanced medicine, philosophy, architecture, law and so on. Imagine the Roman Empire developing unhindred for 2000 more years, we'd finally have decent jetpacks now. The idea that Christianity was responsible for the decline and fall of the Roman Empire is maybe 10% of the story, sorry. It's adoption as the Roman state religion helped weaken the bonds of the various Roman subject peoples, but that's about it. And that is because the Roman state persecuted non-Christians as harshly as it had non-Emperor worshipers before. Christianity itself had little to do with it, Romans acting like Romans is what happened. More than half the fault is of successive generations of the Roman upper class raping the treasury and failing to maintain the legions and empire's infrastructure properly. Several famines and plagues that hit in the 4th and 5th century, and most of all the migration of massive Germanic pagan tribes into Roman territory who warred with and eventually defeated the Western Roman Empire. What are they teaching in schools these days, that people really believe Christianity was responsible for the Low Middle Ages ("Dark" Age)?
No man, I think you were mistunderstanding me.
I didn't want to insinuate that Christianity was responsible for the Fall of Rome or the Dark Age (not solely, at least) but merely that there were cultures before Christianity and Islam that worked just fine.
I'm aware of the Völkerwanderung and a general world history and all that Jazz, but I still think that at least modern governments would do well to exclude any religious influences in their decision-making, as naive as that may sound.
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As far as I'm concerned, Islam is a legit religion and has done mostly good to it's true followers.
It is people, like the once that try to make a "Muslim" government that piss me off. They corrupt a religion, and use it as a cover for their total ignorance of everything, which results in ignorant people thinking the cause of all this is the religion, rather than the people. If I claimed I was, say, a Hindu, I could both choose to be a good person, and do good deeds in my life, or go massacre a village of people. I would still be called Hindu whether or not I decided to massacre the village, but once I choose to commit the massacre, people always choose to believe that the reason I did it was because my religion influenced me, while in reality I didn't have a single clue about what the religion teaches.
When it comes to this case, this just shows the corruption and lack of women-rights in Afghanistan. While I hope justice will come to the women, it probably won't, which is a sad part of life.
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On November 23 2011 20:38 Gnial wrote:
I know people, women's rights groups in particular, hate it when you "blame the victim". While that isn't my intention, I know that is how this is often construed:
How do we know it was rape and not her having an affair?
Upon reading more closely, he was in fact convicted of rape. And the incarceration of the victim is a regular practice, apparently, which is terrible.
wow having an affair doesn't warrant jail... its a personal thing. Religion+Government = human rights violation
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On what basis can you make that claim? We dont have written history without religion, so we dont really know what the world would be like without those two. How ever, we do have strongly secular countries that flat out ignore most of the religious teachings, and still country like finland has good justice system, woman president, prime minister, damn near free education to everybody and our poverty ratings are very low.
On the basis that it is what happened and the people and organizations responsible deserve credit for it.
"Someone else woulda done it" isn't an argument against giving credit. Not a good one anyway.
Finland and other "secular" countries, you are so proud of making claims like what you say, you act like Christianity has no relationship or connection to your culture, when almost 100% of your culture, including secularism, is a product of Christianity! It's very funny.
Who do you think the first men were, who set the foundations for the intellectual development that resulted in things like secularism? Christians and Jews! Arguing first against Roman oppression and then Roman Catholic oppression.
Where did the "secular" idea of critical analysis come from? Christians, who wanted to read the Bible for themselves in their own languages and decide for themselves what Christianity was about, not what the Catholic Church told them!
Etc., etc., look. For a thousand or so years, Christianity and Islam were the only places around (outside of China) where you could go if you wanted to learn to read and write, learn mathematics, law, science, philosophy etc., such as they were. Learn the facts. The intellectual foundations of our whole society were rebuilt by religious men. In between the Greco-Roman era and the Renaissance, it's hard to find a European or Muslim great scientist or writer or thinker who was not driven at least in part in his quest for knowledge by his faith. Martin Luther is a good example, that Protestantism thing? That was religious you know. Reason and logic? Thomas Aquinas and others Muslim and Christian, using the writings of the old Greek philosophers to examine their religions and world to discover and understand "the glory of God's creation," as they viewed it.
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On November 24 2011 04:17 IamBach wrote:
wow having an affair doesn't warrant jail... its a personal thing. Religion+Government = human rights violation
It may not in the US but other counties actually value the sanctity of a marriage especially countries that hold religion in such high regard. Never understood why someone would have an affair, if you hate your spouse so much just get a divorce then you can start a new relationship with this other person. People are so impatient.
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Canada2890 Posts
On November 24 2011 04:23 LlOoKkIi wrote:Show nested quote +On November 24 2011 04:17 IamBach wrote:
wow having an affair doesn't warrant jail... its a personal thing. Religion+Government = human rights violation It may not in the US but other counties actually value the sanctity of a marriage especially countries that hold religion in such high regard. Never understood why someone would have an affair, if you hate your spouse so much just get a divorce then you can start a new relationship with this other person. People are so impatient.
Wow, so it's in the hands of government to uphold the sanctity of things now?
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On November 24 2011 04:23 LlOoKkIi wrote:Show nested quote +On November 24 2011 04:17 IamBach wrote:
wow having an affair doesn't warrant jail... its a personal thing. Religion+Government = human rights violation It may not in the US but other counties actually value the sanctity of a marriage especially countries that hold religion in such high regard. Never understood why someone would have an affair, if you hate your spouse so much just get a divorce then you can start a new relationship with this other person. People are so impatient.
Yeah, if a Muslim woman doesn't like her spouse, she'll just divorce him.
That's exactly how it works.
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On November 24 2011 04:23 LlOoKkIi wrote:Show nested quote +On November 24 2011 04:17 IamBach wrote:
wow having an affair doesn't warrant jail... its a personal thing. Religion+Government = human rights violation It may not in the US but other counties actually value the sanctity of a marriage especially countries that hold religion in such high regard. Never understood why someone would have an affair, if you hate your spouse so much just get a divorce then you can start a new relationship with this other person. People are so impatient.
It is not the states place to enforce any of that.
It may be a dick thing to have an affair but the government shouldn't get involved in the personal lives of it's citizens. I literally get chills just thinking about what a terrible society the west will become if we actually enforced laws like that. Government getting insanely involved in citizens lives whilst dictating religious laws...that's the opposite of where we want to go.
Many people would say cheating in general is wrong. Should we go and give people fines or jail time for cheating on their boyfriends/girlfriends?
It's seriously creepy to hear people talk about such extreme end of the spectrum measures for what are personal affairs.
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Terrible shit...
Seriously I would say something horrible about their culture/religion in which women held in little regard...
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Religion poisons everything.
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I believe this has nothing to do with religion. It is a matter of culture. Bad nonetheless.
To the people mentioning Middle East learn you geography first. From when Afghanistan belongs to Middle East?
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this is another great example of why i am ALL for their fanaticism and proclivity for suicide bombing. that combined with the general disdain for women and the lack of women being raised to maturity in that region means that for them, their deathrate will soon be higher than their birthrate. which im ok with. self imposed genocide through idiocy
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On November 24 2011 04:40 Art.FeeL wrote:
I believe this has nothing to do with religion. It is a matter of culture. Bad nonetheless.
To the people mentioning Middle East learn you geography first. From when Afghanistan belongs to Middle East?
Afghanistan is under Islamic law.
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On November 24 2011 04:21 DeepElemBlues wrote:Show nested quote +On what basis can you make that claim? We dont have written history without religion, so we dont really know what the world would be like without those two. How ever, we do have strongly secular countries that flat out ignore most of the religious teachings, and still country like finland has good justice system, woman president, prime minister, damn near free education to everybody and our poverty ratings are very low.
On the basis that it is what happened and the people and organizations responsible deserve credit for it. "Someone else woulda done it" isn't an argument against giving credit. Not a good one anyway. Finland and other "secular" countries, you are so proud of making claims like what you say, you act like Christianity has no relationship or connection to your culture, when almost 100% of your culture, including secularism, is a product of Christianity! It's very funny. Who do you think the first men were, who set the foundations for the intellectual development that resulted in things like secularism? Christians and Jews! Arguing first against Roman oppression and then Roman Catholic oppression. Where did the "secular" idea of critical analysis come from? Christians, who wanted to read the Bible for themselves in their own languages and decide for themselves what Christianity was about, not what the Catholic Church told them! Etc., etc., look. For a thousand or so years, Christianity and Islam were the only places around (outside of China) where you could go if you wanted to learn to read and write, learn mathematics, law, science, philosophy etc., such as they were. Learn the facts. The intellectual foundations of our whole society were rebuilt by religious men. In between the Greco-Roman era and the Renaissance, it's hard to find a European or Muslim great scientist or writer or thinker who was not driven at least in part in his quest for knowledge by his faith. Martin Luther is a good example, that Protestantism thing? That was religious you know. Reason and logic? Thomas Aquinas and others Muslim and Christian, using the writings of the old Greek philosophers to examine their religions and world to discover and understand "the glory of God's creation," as they viewed it.
Christianity is quick to claim credit for things that is just common sence or what it has nothing to do with.( When was the last time you heard someone thank god for something that doctor did for example? When was the last time people thanked god for having a nice singing voice? List goes on and on... ) It is the basic argument that without religion instructing how to live people would be running around raping and stealing from their neighbors.( as if that didnt happen, HAH! ) Christianitys reign was such a bad time for the people that it is no wonder that people started to look for alternatives. Thanking christianity for that is like thanking the rapist for showing everybody around the world just how badly they treat women there. If anything, christianity stopped the work that was began by the civilizations that preceded them, such as greeks.
Its more likely that human and its ancestors learned long before we started writing - or even started walking - that team work and strong societies are good thing, whitch is all that evolution needs to start hardwiring people community behaviour. Since stealing, raping and murdering are bad for community, its only natural that evolution would favor the ones that could sence the injustice in such behaviour. Treating others well is common sence, and while there are people who cannot feel this sence of justice, that dosent mean that they would follow these rules even if it was written on a silly book either.
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Before you guys start hating the Afghanistan government, please be aware that you do not know the whole story.
What if it was a mutual consensus to have an affair and the women lied about what happened after she found out that she was pregnant. If you have ever read To Kill a Mockingbird, you know exactly what I'm talking about.
Don't be so quick to judge because CNN will often make bias reports to make the US look better compared to other nations.
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Canada2890 Posts
On November 24 2011 04:50 aztrorisk wrote:
Before you guys start hating the Afghanistan government, please be aware that you do not know the whole story.
What if it was a mutual consensus to have an affair and the women lied about what happened after she found out that she was pregnant. If you have ever read To Kill a Mockingbird, you know exactly what I'm talking about.
Don't be so quick to judge because CNN will often make bias reports to make the US look better compared to other nations.
Oh, she was only put in jail because she was having an extramarital affair? That's okay then.
ARE YOU TRIPPING SON
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