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One of the biggest problems with Islam in terms of the modern day is that a few centuries ago the "scholars" closed the books and said, no more interpretation. We've learned/examined all we need to know. And since Sharia was the basis of their legal system as well, the have more or less left their laws unchanged for hundreds of years. While there have been periods of progress, there have also been sharp steps back. Before the Islamic Fundamentalism that is the mainstay of the Middle East now, there was an idea of "Arab Socialism" which was the mainstay.
I bring this up because were interpretation still allowed, an exception could be made in the case of rape. The argument( a flawed one) that makes a scenario like this possible is that a woman's testimony alone is not considered sound unless backed up by another witness. In this case, the only other possible witness would be the rapist. And he obviously wouldn't incriminate himself.
This was put forth mostly for legal and financial document, as men hundreds of years ago thought that women were so softhearted that they would lie to protect the men in their family, either legally or financially, so that any sort of contract between two people could not have just one woman signing as a witness, it either had to be a man or a woman and someone else.
I don't agree with this. A lot of Muslims I know don't agree with this. But I'm just presenting the justification that went behind this decision for those who didn't know.
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Afghanistan is just fucked up period. this is a complete violation of human rights.
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I live in the Middle East and you hear things like that often. I once read in the local paper about a woman who was driven into no where and raped by her taxi driver. She was then found to blame in the court because she was too good looking and brought it on her self.
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On November 24 2011 01:11 FJ wrote:
I live in the Middle East and you hear things like that often. I once read in the local paper about a woman who was driven into no where and raped by her taxi driver. She was then found to blame in the court because she was too good looking and brought it on her self.
That is so messed up. Sigh. I don't even know what to say here, I just wanted to express my concern for women who are treated like this. I don't even want to get involved in the debate here, it can't go anywhere good, I just want to sigh.
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I'm so happy that I live in a country where the government isn't totally fucked up yet.
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Fucking disgusting, this type of shit happens way too frequently in the middle east. Every time I hear about something like this I become more and more ashamed of being from the middle east.
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On November 24 2011 01:15 Jongl0 wrote:
I'm so happy that I live in a country where the government isn't totally fucked up yet.
Its not only the government. Its the culture there that enables the government to do shit like this.
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On November 24 2011 01:15 Jongl0 wrote:
I'm so happy that I live in a country where the government isn't totally fucked up yet.
Yet? As if Afghanistan ever had a functioning government, or as if Sweden is about to have one that wont function.
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This sounds like a potential Cannibal Corpse song. But man, this is inhumane.
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On November 23 2011 22:31 Zvek wrote:Show nested quote +On November 23 2011 22:19 Nothingtosay wrote:On November 23 2011 22:14 Zvek wrote:
What is disgusting is all the posters here on TL taking the "moral high ground".
Really, what do we/you know about culture/justice? I say they can handle on their own. Our disgust over it, no matter what it is, is a product of ignorance, or worse unchecked elitism. This cultural difference occur everywhere, why should Afganistan be singled out? In the USA, you can divorce, which is totally inhumane and completely idiotic for the Arabs. Not to mention all the wars the US has started in the name of "democracy". In some tribes in Africa, the boys are introduced to adulthood by making them have sex with their sisters, and drink the semen of older men.
Let them solve their "situation/problem". Keep your judgment to yourself. All of those things are disgusting and should not be tolerated. Of course we have problems with out culture aswell, I for one think that death penalty is ridiculous, also I don't understand how gay marriage is still illegal etc....... You don't HAVE to tolerate other cultures, you can be reasonable, when you see something like this and be RIGHTFULLY DISGUSTED. You see, if you understand what you are saying, at its deepest discursive level, you would have avoided using the word "tolerate". It is such a philosophically loaded word dripping with false assumptions, and at worse, misguided moral perspective that, if you notice, no public intellectual, no matter how liberal, uses it in public discourse... since the 90s maybe. And who decides if something is worth being "rightfully disgusted" about or not?
Who are you to decide whether or not I should be disgusted or find Afghanistan barbaric? I'm not from your culture.
Oh look, your argument is now contradictory. Hooray for cultural relativism.
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On November 24 2011 01:50 Talent.L wrote:
this is so fucked up..
Indeed, and its pretty sad to think that Lybia and Egypt and walking towards the same direction now that their american placed dictators are falling, and the islamic extremists will most surely win the elections
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That's religion for you.
I like how we act all high and mighty because women are so equal in our society and 50 years ago women weren't even allowed to vote in most occidental countries and faggots are still not even allowed to marry everywhere.
Just because Western culture is a little more developed, we have no right to get all superiour about it.
That being said, this is a horrid and despicable crime against a human being and indeed rather terrifying.
Says a lot about the men of a culture that relies so heavily on supression of women that they have to make adultery illegal (Jesus, I'd laugh about this if it weren't so utterly somber).
User was warned for this post
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I'm surprised at how many people in this thread are seemingly unaware that there have been dozens of similar, fully documented cases over decades :/
This didn't surprise me in the slightest
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On November 24 2011 02:37 kafkaesque wrote:
*snip*
I like how we act all high and mighty because women are so equal in our society and 50 years ago women weren't even allowed to vote in most occidental countries and faggots are still not even allowed to marry everywhere.
Just because Western culture is a little more developed, we have no right to get all superiour about it.
*snip*
Way to generalize everybody. I dont know where you are from, but this sort of treatment is nothing short of barbaric and would be the a horror story of decade should it hapen in finland. On a cultural development, we are several hundred years ahead to these pigs and their law system.
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On November 24 2011 02:56 Hittomogasin wrote:Show nested quote +On November 24 2011 02:37 kafkaesque wrote:
*snip*
I like how we act all high and mighty because women are so equal in our society and 50 years ago women weren't even allowed to vote in most occidental countries and faggots are still not even allowed to marry everywhere.
Just because Western culture is a little more developed, we have no right to get all superiour about it.
*snip* Way to generalize everybody. I dont know where you are from, but this sort of treatment is nothing short of barbaric and would be the a horror story of decade should it hapen in finland. On a cultural development, we are several hundred years ahead to these pigs and their law system.
"These pigs"? Way to generalize.
And didn't Finland just elect a right-wing party into government?
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Islamic countries ftw.
There honestly isn't a islamic country where such fked up stuff doesn't happen.
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On November 23 2011 23:43 tyCe wrote:Show nested quote +On November 23 2011 22:34 CaptainCrush wrote:On November 23 2011 22:14 Zvek wrote:
What is disgusting is all the posters here on TL taking the "moral high ground".
Really, what do we/you know about culture/justice? I say they can handle on their own. Our disgust over it, no matter what it is, is a product of ignorance, or worse unchecked elitism. This cultural difference occur everywhere, why should Afganistan be singled out? In the USA, you can divorce, which is totally inhumane and completely idiotic for the Arabs. Not to mention all the wars the US has started in the name of "democracy". In some tribes in Africa, the boys are introduced to adulthood by making them have sex with their sisters, and drink the semen of older men.
Let them solve their "situation/problem". Keep your judgment to yourself. In all the time I have spent browsing team liquid, this is one of the most uneducated and ridiculously WRONG posts I have seen. Wrong on so many places that I dont even know where to start....You may actually be part of the problem if you think this is just an example of a cultural difference. We don't know whether it was really rape (because Shari'ah law punishes rapists extremely severely; ironically westerners would say the punishments of criminal Shari'ah law are inhumane) and the family's shame suggests that it was not truly rape. However, adultery is also a very severe crime in Shari'ah law so I understand that the woman would plead rape.
For all your effort to sound like the enlightened one in this thread, these two sentences are kind of laughable as far as the logic and ignorance displayed. The statement "the family's shame suggests that it was not truly rape" shows that you know nothing about their cultural conception of honor. It's funny how you contradict yourself when you take a side on the matter and then go on to say you're not going to comment further because you "don't have any evidence." You criticized the media for not giving us reliable information and concluded from that that the women's story shouldn't be believed. Basically you confused your opinion of western media with your opinion of this woman's story.
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Well fuck that. Who can we bribe to get her out of country? If I have the means I'll do it.
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sorry but then everyone tells me to accept other mentalities and other cultures and other religions ... but if other cultures and religions includes this i just CANT accept them ...
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EPT
