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On November 20 2011 22:48 Simberto wrote:
What i don't really get is why this whole thing should even be necessary. Swimming is an individual sport. For the training, it should not matter at all, just let them train together if you don't have enough people/trainers to train seperately. And for competitions, why can't they simply compete in the male competitions? Just get someones parents to drive them there if the school really can't afford a car at all, and the competition is not at the same place and time as the one for females.
I really don't understand why that would be so hard. You nailed it. People who are talking as if the only two alternatives here are "don't let the boys swim" or "let them be counted as girls for competitive purposes" are missing the point, imho.
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On November 20 2011 23:06 jamesr12 wrote:
Another reason it doesn't matter is all anyone cares about in swimming is states. All the events prior to states are just to practice and to qualify for states. The article said the guys compete up to states meaning they don't compete in states. Qualifying for states is all based on time it doesn't matter if you come in last in your heat as long as you are under the set time for that event which is set at the start of the year. Actually, I meant "up to and including" states. Sorry about the ambiguity; I'll correct that now.
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Largely uninteresting but at least the op tried to cater to everyone :D.
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On November 20 2011 13:18 TiTanIum_ wrote:Girls actually swim better than most boys until 16 years. And: Show nested quote +On November 20 2011 13:02 Syth wrote:
So you're saying those boys shouldn't be allowed to swim then?
Seriously, it's school swimming. Who actually cares if boys are competing with girls.
This. Not even close to as bad as the high school that allowed a girl to join the boys wrestling team. Can you imagine being a teenager wrestling a butch girl and getting beat, being mocked and taunted for the rest of high school? Honestly guys if it's OK for a girl to join a guys wrestling team, then it's obviously OK for guys to swim in the same pool as girls...
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Since there may be no NBA season this year, Lebron, Wade, and Bosh should go to a WNBA team to win a title.
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On November 20 2011 13:10 Neb1000 wrote:
I came here expecting guys dressed as girls swimming.
This...
I stared at the photo trying to decide if that girl was a guy or not.
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On November 20 2011 23:20 gold_ wrote:Show nested quote +On November 20 2011 13:18 TiTanIum_ wrote:Girls actually swim better than most boys until 16 years. And: On November 20 2011 13:02 Syth wrote:
So you're saying those boys shouldn't be allowed to swim then?
Seriously, it's school swimming. Who actually cares if boys are competing with girls. This. Not even close to as bad as the high school that allowed a girl to join the boys wrestling team. Can you imagine being a teenager wrestling a butch girl and getting beat, being mocked and taunted for the rest of high school? Honestly guys if it's OK for a girl to join a guys wrestling team, then it's obviously OK for guys to swim in the same pool as girls...
One - no teenage girls are not better swimmers than teenage boys. I'm not sure what gave you that insane idea, but here are the national high school records for swimming. http://www.swimmingworldmagazine.com/results/records/USA_High_School_Records.pdf
Two - it is entirely different for a girl to compete against boys in a competition as she is overcoming a physical disadvantage to try and compete on their level. There is a reason wrestlers are allowed to wrestle up one weight class but not down one.
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You americans are insane, why not train together and compete in the right class depending on your sex?
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On November 20 2011 23:26 Valashu wrote:Show nested quote +On November 20 2011 13:10 Neb1000 wrote:
I came here expecting guys dressed as girls swimming. This... I stared at the photo trying to decide if that girl was a guy or not. Geez, at least read to the end of the OP. I already made an edit for you guys.
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On November 20 2011 23:29 Runnin wrote:Show nested quote +On November 20 2011 23:20 gold_ wrote:On November 20 2011 13:18 TiTanIum_ wrote:Girls actually swim better than most boys until 16 years. And: On November 20 2011 13:02 Syth wrote:
So you're saying those boys shouldn't be allowed to swim then?
Seriously, it's school swimming. Who actually cares if boys are competing with girls. This. Not even close to as bad as the high school that allowed a girl to join the boys wrestling team. Can you imagine being a teenager wrestling a butch girl and getting beat, being mocked and taunted for the rest of high school? Honestly guys if it's OK for a girl to join a guys wrestling team, then it's obviously OK for guys to swim in the same pool as girls... One - no teenage girls are not better swimmers than teenage boys. I'm not sure what gave you that insane idea, but here are the national high school records for swimming. http://www.swimmingworldmagazine.com/results/records/USA_High_School_Records.pdfTwo - it is entirely different for a girl to compete against boys in a competition as she is overcoming a physical disadvantage to try and compete on their level. There is a reason wrestlers are allowed to wrestle up one weight class but not down one.
Wouldn't the girl swimmers be overcoming a physical disadvantage as well? So it is basically the same no? But it's only OK if the young girl WANTS to deal with this? Why can't they just all compete against each other, and the fastest gets the awards, and add an award for the fastest female as well? Why should any guy in the school/district of schools be banned from being a part of the swim team because they are guys? Just a note, the pictures show that the female on the diving board looks more muscular than the guy...
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On November 20 2011 20:04 turdburgler wrote:a small boy has no choice but to compete against a "large" boy in swimming, there are no weight classes. how is that fair on a guy who has no choice that he is 1ft shorter than the other guy or a bad build for swimming. its just school league swimming let them both swim even though its 'unfair' on 1 guy. then based on that how is it any different than a mid sized boy (small in sporting terms) competing against a girl? its not her fault, but its not his fault either. swimming doesnt have weight categories, its just a good vs bad situation. whether its right or wrong to have sex segregation is an argument on its own but probably not for this thread. my point is that swimming is imbalanced all the time and therefore to make the best of the situation they can they should just let the boys swim, however it is feasible for their school funding.
i have no idea how your point relates to what ive said so:
- its fair to boys because they get the chance to practice, compete in a sport that they like.
- its unfair to girls because theyll get the shaft (sooner or later) at winning.
also, i dont know how its in england but here, the swimming team competitions are based on age groups. there are no 'small boys' competing with 'large boys'.
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Had to skip a lot but, essentially:
Training together? Whyever not?
Men COMPETING in women's only events? Absolutely not. Men have more lean muscle mass, and all the feel good hippy gender equality BS isn't going to change that. Equality doesn't mean men get to give birth, and it doesn't mean you can positive-energy away physical differences.
Don't. Screw. Up. The. Competition. That's one of the biggest ways young kids learn; through competition.
Let's take this to the logical extreme: a couple of schools start allowing guys in women-only events. They'll start winning everything. Eventually, EVERY school will appeal (and win) the unfairness, and start allowing men in THEIR women only events. Final result: a few years down the line, both male and female teams will be men only. Retarded, and its fuzzy feel-good logic that will get us there.
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Plus i don't even know why that should be needed. Obviously you have quite a different system over there, here in germany sports are usually organized in clubs which have no affiliations with schools at all, and thus such a problem does not appear at all.
And apparently you have some very strange regulations, because it really is not expensive to reach a competition usually, so i just don't understand why you could not just have them compete in the competition designed for males. What is preventing from just sending them there? I am pretty sure that if you have even a very small group of children dedicated to swimming, you would find some parent that drives them to the competition. What is preventing that?
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The alternative is obviously that Since this swim team has boys in it, it should be called Boys swim team (with girls allowed). Since you/we're putting boys above girls (in inherent strength/swimming-abilities) they must take precedence were they not allowed to compete with girls (so as to not be excluded), it would be the only remaining option. Result being girls losing their "girls" team, and having to compete with boys.
There is (kinda) a second option: Banning boys from any/all/most/some(?) "girls" team completely, which is essentially discrimination of sexes. I'm pretty sure this "law of equal opportunity" was made to give girls the same opportunity as boys; but you're proposing that the law also discriminates against boys by not giving the boys the same opportunities as girls.
Either way, it will be a setback (or will it) for the "womens movement" or whatever you call it. Either the womens movement will start discriminating against boys, or it will have to remove the law of equal opportunity all-together. I just know I'd want to fight any discrimination against boys. Wether or not women, in the end, actually want to be equal or different after all is up to them. But this is basically what we get when women fight to be the same as men.
I tihnk you'll just have to live with it.
What I don't understand tho', is why can't the boys compete with other boys and girls with other girls? Essentially everybody is in a swim team; whats the big idea with bringing boys to girls competition rather than sending them to another boys competition? Does it cost more to send boys and girls in opposite directions rather than the same? Bus fair that expensive? Seems more like a logistics problem, where someone doesn'tt realize that boys arent actually attached to girls' hips.
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On November 20 2011 23:53 Autofire2 wrote:
Had to skip a lot but, essentially:
Training together? Whyever not?
Men COMPETING in women's only events? Absolutely not. Men have more lean muscle mass, and all the feel good hippy gender equality BS isn't going to change that. Equality doesn't mean men get to give birth, and it doesn't mean you can positive-energy away physical differences.
Don't. Screw. Up. The. Competition. That's one of the biggest ways young kids learn; through competition.
Let's take this to the logical extreme: a couple of schools start allowing guys in women-only events. They'll start winning everything. Eventually, EVERY school will appeal (and win) the unfairness, and start allowing men in THEIR women only events. Final result: a few years down the line, both male and female teams will be men only. Retarded, and its fuzzy feel-good logic that will get us there.
Not exactly. The teams would then become boys teams, and girls would start their own teams (or similarly, boys would form their own team), and voilla: you'd have 2 teams. Which will happen if swimming gets as big of a sport as you're suggesting.
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On November 20 2011 23:37 aebriol wrote:
You americans are insane, why not train together and compete in the right class depending on your sex?
While you could do that in Swimming, it doesn't address the general issue.
(Plus you're also assuming Male and Female competitions occur at the same time and place, often Travel is really the cost of competitions)
You've got the same issue with Soccer teams, Field hockey teams and so on where there isn't that type of simple fix.
My High School had a male only hockey team, so girls would have been able to play that, which seems fine.
But we also had a Girl's Rugby team, and no Boy's Rugby team.
Would you let a 6'3" 220lbs 18 y/o Boy play on the girl's Rugby team?
Someone will eventually have to apply some common sense to these 'Equality' type policies.
Sometimes you just don't get to play something. If there's no Boy's Team, then there's no Boy's team.
My High School didn't have a Boy or Girl's Football team...So I didn't get to play football in High School....boo hoo.
Sometimes you just don't get everything you want.
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wth this is ridiculous.
In order to give people a "fair chance", they allowed boys to compete as girls and vice versa.
Oh the irony.
Don't even start at the girl who won the wrestling competition thing. It's wrestling. How are you supposed to wrestle a girl?
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On November 20 2011 13:10 Fenrax wrote:
lol
There is a reason why this is only practiced in Massachusetts: Common sense. Also these boys are a bunch of sissys. "Competing" with girls in a sport that requires muscle power? Probably even proud when they won.
They are not sissys. They are guys who want to swim. You would have a point if it was guys wanting to play field hockey and girls wanting to play football but swimming is something that both genders have always done.
And the swimmers aren't competing with each other anyways. Sports like swimming, golf, bowling, sprinting, long distance running...you are only playing against yourself. The participants do not interact with each other, and have no way to influence the results of another participant, nor can they use another participant to enhance their own performance.
I would argue that having separate swim teams for males and females is absolutely silly.
If you are so concerned about results, they should just keep track of the best male and best female results separately.
And Massachusetts liberals do some crazy stuff sometimes but there is no other place in the union where I would rather live...(well except maybe on a beach in Hawaii).
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Hold on a moment, is this team designed for female gender only? Or is it unisex? If its the prior then I can understand all the outrage about what had occurred.
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EPT
