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On November 11 2011 06:06 InToTheWannaB wrote:Show nested quote +On November 11 2011 05:55 Slurpy wrote:
To those people saying that the student body at Penn State University are rioting purely because of football are flat wrong. Joe Vincent Paterno has done more for this school than anyone in the history of Penn State. He donated the money that built the 10 Million dollar Library which is named after him.
While I agree the rioting and destruction of campus infrastructure is wrong, there is more to this riot than the blind allegiance of a school to its head coach of football for over 40 years. When someone has worked for a school that long and has given so much back to the school, the abrupt immediate firing over speculation is plain wrong. Paterno deserves more than this wtf I don't care if Joepa was a saint for 40 years until this. There some things that are in inexcusable. Turning a blind eye towards a child molesters is one of them. There no coming back from that. 40 years of collateral and good will does not even begin to cover the bill for this one.
Not sure what kind of blind people you've met before, but Paterno didn't "turn a blind eye." He reported this to his superiors and placed his trust in a system that we all know is flawed, greedy, and corrupt. I agree he could've done A LOOOOOTTTTTTT more, but don't disregard his whole life of service.
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On November 11 2011 06:05 stokes17 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 11 2011 06:01 Risen wrote:On November 11 2011 05:58 Jibba wrote:
Nothing had been found, but the disturbed GA who saw the rape occur was soon promoted and it was left at that.
At what point, in your opinion, does it become JoePa's moral responsibility to find out what's happening? Is the GA lying? Or is it ok for Sandusky, as long as he's only a molester and not a rapist (which fits with JoePa's statement) to hang around the program?
If McQueary lightened what he saw for JoePa, but JoePa still believes what he was told and passes it on, then JoePa would still believe that Sandusky was molesting a boy in the shower room. So we're at the point where JoePa believes Sandusky was molesting (not raping) a boy in the shower room. Nothing comes of it from the AD, so JoePa drops it? And still allows him access to his buildings? On November 11 2011 05:59 stokes17 wrote:On November 11 2011 05:55 Risen wrote:On November 11 2011 05:54 Jibba wrote: What does this have to do with anything? It supports the fact that maybe JoePa was under the assumption that the issue had been investigated and nothing had been found. I can't stay away ahh!! No dood it doesn't show that. If there was an investigation and nothing was found.... why the fuck would you promote McQuerey to head of recruiting after making such a heinous baseless claim? It shows that McQuerey was really good at recruiting. Why else would McQuerey stay knowing the man he had accused was still around? Edit: I am not naive, I have stated that I believe in my gut that JoePa knew more or didn't do everything in his power to stop the actions of Sandusky. I am reserving judgement until something confirms my gut feelings, though. Which is what I expect everyone else to do. Some people disagree with this. Ok so if the accuser and the one being accused both still work at the university. That means the case was not resolved. Because either McQuerey lied, or Snadusky raped a kid. One of those must be true, and failing to determine which is true, by sweeping the whole thing under the rug is a cover up. Joe saw this going on, and turned a blind eye. Idn how many more times i need to say it He should have done more
You view it as a coverup, I view it as none of Paterno's business. He reported the issue to his boss and the police, the end. If he's a part of the coverup then gut reaction confirmed. If not, I'm glad I reserved judgement.
Should he have quit over the issue? Should he have left the program when neither the GA or Sandunsky was publicly outed?
The only people I see confirmed as being a part of the coverup are the athletic director, the head of police, Sandusky, and McQuerey.
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On November 11 2011 06:10 Risen wrote:Show nested quote +On November 11 2011 06:05 stokes17 wrote:On November 11 2011 06:01 Risen wrote:On November 11 2011 05:58 Jibba wrote:
Nothing had been found, but the disturbed GA who saw the rape occur was soon promoted and it was left at that.
At what point, in your opinion, does it become JoePa's moral responsibility to find out what's happening? Is the GA lying? Or is it ok for Sandusky, as long as he's only a molester and not a rapist (which fits with JoePa's statement) to hang around the program?
If McQueary lightened what he saw for JoePa, but JoePa still believes what he was told and passes it on, then JoePa would still believe that Sandusky was molesting a boy in the shower room. So we're at the point where JoePa believes Sandusky was molesting (not raping) a boy in the shower room. Nothing comes of it from the AD, so JoePa drops it? And still allows him access to his buildings? On November 11 2011 05:59 stokes17 wrote:On November 11 2011 05:55 Risen wrote:On November 11 2011 05:54 Jibba wrote: What does this have to do with anything? It supports the fact that maybe JoePa was under the assumption that the issue had been investigated and nothing had been found. I can't stay away ahh!! No dood it doesn't show that. If there was an investigation and nothing was found.... why the fuck would you promote McQuerey to head of recruiting after making such a heinous baseless claim? It shows that McQuerey was really good at recruiting. Why else would McQuerey stay knowing the man he had accused was still around? Edit: I am not naive, I have stated that I believe in my gut that JoePa knew more or didn't do everything in his power to stop the actions of Sandusky. I am reserving judgement until something confirms my gut feelings, though. Which is what I expect everyone else to do. Some people disagree with this. Ok so if the accuser and the one being accused both still work at the university. That means the case was not resolved. Because either McQuerey lied, or Snadusky raped a kid. One of those must be true, and failing to determine which is true, by sweeping the whole thing under the rug is a cover up. Joe saw this going on, and turned a blind eye. Idn how many more times i need to say it He should have done more You view it as a coverup, I view it as none of Paterno's business. He reported the issue to his boss and the police, the end. If he's a part of the coverup then gut reaction confirmed. If not, I'm glad I reserved judgement. Should he have quit over the issue? Should he have left the program when neither the GA or Sandunsky was publicly outed? The only people I see confirmed as being a part of the coverup are the athletic director, the head of police, Sandusky, and McQuerey.
it doesn't matter if he was active in a cover up. A failure to act can be seen as moral failing. I see Paterno's failure to act as a moral failing.
And how the fuck can you say you confirm McQuerey as being in on the cover up when he's the only one still with a job?
the speculation whistle blower..... has fallen to speculation
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On November 11 2011 06:08 JinNJuice wrote:Show nested quote +On November 11 2011 06:06 InToTheWannaB wrote:On November 11 2011 05:55 Slurpy wrote:
To those people saying that the student body at Penn State University are rioting purely because of football are flat wrong. Joe Vincent Paterno has done more for this school than anyone in the history of Penn State. He donated the money that built the 10 Million dollar Library which is named after him.
While I agree the rioting and destruction of campus infrastructure is wrong, there is more to this riot than the blind allegiance of a school to its head coach of football for over 40 years. When someone has worked for a school that long and has given so much back to the school, the abrupt immediate firing over speculation is plain wrong. Paterno deserves more than this wtf I don't care if Joepa was a saint for 40 years until this. There some things that are in inexcusable. Turning a blind eye towards a child molesters is one of them. There no coming back from that. 40 years of collateral and good will does not even begin to cover the bill for this one. Not sure what kind of blind people you've met before, but Paterno didn't "turn a blind eye." He reported this to his superiors and placed his trust in a system that we all know is flawed, greedy, and corrupt. I agree he could've done A LOOOOOTTTTTTT more, but don't disregard his whole life of service.
He knew in 98, any doubt left was gone in 2002. He did the bare minimum, and then never gave it a second thought. He never gave it a second thought as this monster walked around Joepa football field with children in his company. If thats not turning a blind eye I don't know what is.
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On November 11 2011 06:05 JinNJuice wrote:
Ok seriously, you guys are all debating circumstantial evidence that can't be used to prove or disprove anything. Someone obviously dropped the ball on this issue. [b] I'm pretty sure no sane person with a good conscience can hear the words "10 year old boy + sex" without some sort of strong response.[b] The guilty parties are the ones who heard this and made the worst kind of judgement call which is to avoid scandal and bury this issue. Paterno definitely could have done a lot more, but don't crucify the guy for trusting the system.
Just like Bernard Law, right?
This is incredibly similar Geoghan's role in the Boston Catholic Church sex abuse scandal and it will come to a comparable conclusion. The higher ups were aware of Sandusky's abuse and did nothing to report it to the proper authorities. Rather, they tried to hide it and the men involved in these decisions need to be held accountable.
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On November 11 2011 06:13 stokes17 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 11 2011 06:10 Risen wrote:On November 11 2011 06:05 stokes17 wrote:On November 11 2011 06:01 Risen wrote:On November 11 2011 05:58 Jibba wrote:
Nothing had been found, but the disturbed GA who saw the rape occur was soon promoted and it was left at that.
At what point, in your opinion, does it become JoePa's moral responsibility to find out what's happening? Is the GA lying? Or is it ok for Sandusky, as long as he's only a molester and not a rapist (which fits with JoePa's statement) to hang around the program?
If McQueary lightened what he saw for JoePa, but JoePa still believes what he was told and passes it on, then JoePa would still believe that Sandusky was molesting a boy in the shower room. So we're at the point where JoePa believes Sandusky was molesting (not raping) a boy in the shower room. Nothing comes of it from the AD, so JoePa drops it? And still allows him access to his buildings? On November 11 2011 05:59 stokes17 wrote:On November 11 2011 05:55 Risen wrote:On November 11 2011 05:54 Jibba wrote: What does this have to do with anything? It supports the fact that maybe JoePa was under the assumption that the issue had been investigated and nothing had been found. I can't stay away ahh!! No dood it doesn't show that. If there was an investigation and nothing was found.... why the fuck would you promote McQuerey to head of recruiting after making such a heinous baseless claim? It shows that McQuerey was really good at recruiting. Why else would McQuerey stay knowing the man he had accused was still around? Edit: I am not naive, I have stated that I believe in my gut that JoePa knew more or didn't do everything in his power to stop the actions of Sandusky. I am reserving judgement until something confirms my gut feelings, though. Which is what I expect everyone else to do. Some people disagree with this. Ok so if the accuser and the one being accused both still work at the university. That means the case was not resolved. Because either McQuerey lied, or Snadusky raped a kid. One of those must be true, and failing to determine which is true, by sweeping the whole thing under the rug is a cover up. Joe saw this going on, and turned a blind eye. Idn how many more times i need to say it He should have done more You view it as a coverup, I view it as none of Paterno's business. He reported the issue to his boss and the police, the end. If he's a part of the coverup then gut reaction confirmed. If not, I'm glad I reserved judgement. Should he have quit over the issue? Should he have left the program when neither the GA or Sandunsky was publicly outed? The only people I see confirmed as being a part of the coverup are the athletic director, the head of police, Sandusky, and McQuerey. it doesn't matter if he was active in a cover up. A failure to act can be seen as moral failing. I see Paterno's failure to act as a moral failing. And how the fuck can you say you confirm McQuerey as being in on the cover up when he's the only one still with a job? the speculation whistle blower..... has fallen to speculation
You are correct. My apologies. I meant to say that if what you say is true "The only people I see confirmed as being a part of the coverup are the athletic director, the head of police, Sandusky, and McQuerey"
And I say confirmed because why hasn't he blown the whistle on Sandusky until the grand jury? Why did he wait so long? This isn't a white knight witness. His credibility is in question because he benefitted from the "coverup"
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On November 11 2011 06:13 stokes17 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 11 2011 06:10 Risen wrote:On November 11 2011 06:05 stokes17 wrote:On November 11 2011 06:01 Risen wrote:On November 11 2011 05:58 Jibba wrote:
Nothing had been found, but the disturbed GA who saw the rape occur was soon promoted and it was left at that.
At what point, in your opinion, does it become JoePa's moral responsibility to find out what's happening? Is the GA lying? Or is it ok for Sandusky, as long as he's only a molester and not a rapist (which fits with JoePa's statement) to hang around the program?
If McQueary lightened what he saw for JoePa, but JoePa still believes what he was told and passes it on, then JoePa would still believe that Sandusky was molesting a boy in the shower room. So we're at the point where JoePa believes Sandusky was molesting (not raping) a boy in the shower room. Nothing comes of it from the AD, so JoePa drops it? And still allows him access to his buildings? On November 11 2011 05:59 stokes17 wrote:On November 11 2011 05:55 Risen wrote:On November 11 2011 05:54 Jibba wrote: What does this have to do with anything? It supports the fact that maybe JoePa was under the assumption that the issue had been investigated and nothing had been found. I can't stay away ahh!! No dood it doesn't show that. If there was an investigation and nothing was found.... why the fuck would you promote McQuerey to head of recruiting after making such a heinous baseless claim? It shows that McQuerey was really good at recruiting. Why else would McQuerey stay knowing the man he had accused was still around? Edit: I am not naive, I have stated that I believe in my gut that JoePa knew more or didn't do everything in his power to stop the actions of Sandusky. I am reserving judgement until something confirms my gut feelings, though. Which is what I expect everyone else to do. Some people disagree with this. Ok so if the accuser and the one being accused both still work at the university. That means the case was not resolved. Because either McQuerey lied, or Snadusky raped a kid. One of those must be true, and failing to determine which is true, by sweeping the whole thing under the rug is a cover up. Joe saw this going on, and turned a blind eye. Idn how many more times i need to say it He should have done more You view it as a coverup, I view it as none of Paterno's business. He reported the issue to his boss and the police, the end. If he's a part of the coverup then gut reaction confirmed. If not, I'm glad I reserved judgement. Should he have quit over the issue? Should he have left the program when neither the GA or Sandunsky was publicly outed? The only people I see confirmed as being a part of the coverup are the athletic director, the head of police, Sandusky, and McQuerey. it doesn't matter if he was active in a cover up. A failure to act can be seen as moral failing. I see Paterno's failure to act as a moral failing. And how the fuck can you say you confirm McQuerey as being in on the cover up when he's the only one still with a job? the speculation whistle blower..... has fallen to speculation
On break so I'll come back for this one. Would be ok saying the reason you feel Paterno was fired was because he didn't "do enough" and is therefore morally responsible? If so, I think you should also be calling for the same justice for McQueary, as he actually witnessed the act in person, went to his superior the same as Joe Pa did, did not follow up with the police like Joe Pa did, yet still remains with a job. If you think Paterno was fired for a larger reason then that, fine. But if not you should be willing to concede this point
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On November 11 2011 06:14 Dknight wrote:Show nested quote +On November 11 2011 06:05 JinNJuice wrote:
Ok seriously, you guys are all debating circumstantial evidence that can't be used to prove or disprove anything. Someone obviously dropped the ball on this issue. [b] I'm pretty sure no sane person with a good conscience can hear the words "10 year old boy + sex" without some sort of strong response.[b] The guilty parties are the ones who heard this and made the worst kind of judgement call which is to avoid scandal and bury this issue. Paterno definitely could have done a lot more, but don't crucify the guy for trusting the system. Just like Bernard Law, right? This is incredibly similar Geoghan's role in the Boston Catholic Church sex abuse scandal and it will come to a comparable conclusion. The higher ups were aware of Sandusky's abuse and did nothing to report it to the proper authorities. Rather, they tried to hide it and the men involved in these decisions need to be held accountable.
Know whats different about those two situations? It came out later that higher ups knew about it and did nothing. That isn't the case here, we do not KNOW JoePa's role in this yet. All we have is speculation. We don't have speculation about the Church scandal, we know what happened there because we have access to all the information.
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On November 11 2011 06:16 Risen wrote:Show nested quote +On November 11 2011 06:13 stokes17 wrote:On November 11 2011 06:10 Risen wrote:On November 11 2011 06:05 stokes17 wrote:On November 11 2011 06:01 Risen wrote:On November 11 2011 05:58 Jibba wrote:
Nothing had been found, but the disturbed GA who saw the rape occur was soon promoted and it was left at that.
At what point, in your opinion, does it become JoePa's moral responsibility to find out what's happening? Is the GA lying? Or is it ok for Sandusky, as long as he's only a molester and not a rapist (which fits with JoePa's statement) to hang around the program?
If McQueary lightened what he saw for JoePa, but JoePa still believes what he was told and passes it on, then JoePa would still believe that Sandusky was molesting a boy in the shower room. So we're at the point where JoePa believes Sandusky was molesting (not raping) a boy in the shower room. Nothing comes of it from the AD, so JoePa drops it? And still allows him access to his buildings? On November 11 2011 05:59 stokes17 wrote:On November 11 2011 05:55 Risen wrote:On November 11 2011 05:54 Jibba wrote: What does this have to do with anything? It supports the fact that maybe JoePa was under the assumption that the issue had been investigated and nothing had been found. I can't stay away ahh!! No dood it doesn't show that. If there was an investigation and nothing was found.... why the fuck would you promote McQuerey to head of recruiting after making such a heinous baseless claim? It shows that McQuerey was really good at recruiting. Why else would McQuerey stay knowing the man he had accused was still around? Edit: I am not naive, I have stated that I believe in my gut that JoePa knew more or didn't do everything in his power to stop the actions of Sandusky. I am reserving judgement until something confirms my gut feelings, though. Which is what I expect everyone else to do. Some people disagree with this. Ok so if the accuser and the one being accused both still work at the university. That means the case was not resolved. Because either McQuerey lied, or Snadusky raped a kid. One of those must be true, and failing to determine which is true, by sweeping the whole thing under the rug is a cover up. Joe saw this going on, and turned a blind eye. Idn how many more times i need to say it He should have done more You view it as a coverup, I view it as none of Paterno's business. He reported the issue to his boss and the police, the end. If he's a part of the coverup then gut reaction confirmed. If not, I'm glad I reserved judgement. Should he have quit over the issue? Should he have left the program when neither the GA or Sandunsky was publicly outed? The only people I see confirmed as being a part of the coverup are the athletic director, the head of police, Sandusky, and McQuerey. it doesn't matter if he was active in a cover up. A failure to act can be seen as moral failing. I see Paterno's failure to act as a moral failing. And how the fuck can you say you confirm McQuerey as being in on the cover up when he's the only one still with a job? the speculation whistle blower..... has fallen to speculation You are correct. My apologies. I meant to say that if what you say is true "The only people I see confirmed as being a part of the coverup are the athletic director, the head of police, Sandusky, and McQuerey" And I say confirmed because why hasn't he blown the whistle on Sandusky until the grand jury? Why did he wait so long? This isn't a white knight witness. His credibility is in question because he benefitted from the "coverup"
Yea for sure, McQuerey clearly benefited from keeping his mouth shut. He probably would have lost his job if he talked.
But Joe wouldn't have. He had absolutely NO excuse for remaining silent, which makes it worse. You keep trying to pin me on saying Joe broke the Law. I'm not saying that. I'm saying he failed in his moral duty to protect those who cannot protect themselves.
You really are going to tell me Joe did all he could have to protect future children from harm? No he didn't, therefore he failed his moral obligation.
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United States22883 Posts
On November 11 2011 06:10 Risen wrote:Show nested quote +On November 11 2011 06:05 stokes17 wrote:On November 11 2011 06:01 Risen wrote:On November 11 2011 05:58 Jibba wrote:
Nothing had been found, but the disturbed GA who saw the rape occur was soon promoted and it was left at that.
At what point, in your opinion, does it become JoePa's moral responsibility to find out what's happening? Is the GA lying? Or is it ok for Sandusky, as long as he's only a molester and not a rapist (which fits with JoePa's statement) to hang around the program?
If McQueary lightened what he saw for JoePa, but JoePa still believes what he was told and passes it on, then JoePa would still believe that Sandusky was molesting a boy in the shower room. So we're at the point where JoePa believes Sandusky was molesting (not raping) a boy in the shower room. Nothing comes of it from the AD, so JoePa drops it? And still allows him access to his buildings? On November 11 2011 05:59 stokes17 wrote:On November 11 2011 05:55 Risen wrote:On November 11 2011 05:54 Jibba wrote: What does this have to do with anything? It supports the fact that maybe JoePa was under the assumption that the issue had been investigated and nothing had been found. I can't stay away ahh!! No dood it doesn't show that. If there was an investigation and nothing was found.... why the fuck would you promote McQuerey to head of recruiting after making such a heinous baseless claim? It shows that McQuerey was really good at recruiting. Why else would McQuerey stay knowing the man he had accused was still around? Edit: I am not naive, I have stated that I believe in my gut that JoePa knew more or didn't do everything in his power to stop the actions of Sandusky. I am reserving judgement until something confirms my gut feelings, though. Which is what I expect everyone else to do. Some people disagree with this. Ok so if the accuser and the one being accused both still work at the university. That means the case was not resolved. Because either McQuerey lied, or Snadusky raped a kid. One of those must be true, and failing to determine which is true, by sweeping the whole thing under the rug is a cover up. Joe saw this going on, and turned a blind eye. Idn how many more times i need to say it He should have done more You view it as a coverup, I view it as none of Paterno's business. He reported the issue to his boss and the police, the end. If he's a part of the coverup then gut reaction confirmed. If not, I'm glad I reserved judgement. Should he have quit over the issue? Should he have left the program when neither the GA or Sandunsky was publicly outed? The only people I see confirmed as being a part of the coverup are the athletic director, the head of police, Sandusky, and McQuerey. This is the moral failing.
He reported it to the AD a day later, and then a day later the AD called a meeting between JoePa and Schultz. In most states, JoePa's and McQueary's failing to call police or child protective services would've already been a crime. Pennsylvania happens to have one of the most lenient laws for it, and it's about to change after this.
Like everyone has said again and again, Paterno fulfilled his legal obligation but not a moral one. You keep saying it wasn't a moral obligation, but it's not only a moral obligation, it would be a legal obligation in the vast majority of states.
Risen, fwiw the grand jury classified McQueary's report as highly credible.
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On November 11 2011 06:20 stokes17 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 11 2011 06:16 Risen wrote:On November 11 2011 06:13 stokes17 wrote:On November 11 2011 06:10 Risen wrote:On November 11 2011 06:05 stokes17 wrote:On November 11 2011 06:01 Risen wrote:On November 11 2011 05:58 Jibba wrote:
Nothing had been found, but the disturbed GA who saw the rape occur was soon promoted and it was left at that.
At what point, in your opinion, does it become JoePa's moral responsibility to find out what's happening? Is the GA lying? Or is it ok for Sandusky, as long as he's only a molester and not a rapist (which fits with JoePa's statement) to hang around the program?
If McQueary lightened what he saw for JoePa, but JoePa still believes what he was told and passes it on, then JoePa would still believe that Sandusky was molesting a boy in the shower room. So we're at the point where JoePa believes Sandusky was molesting (not raping) a boy in the shower room. Nothing comes of it from the AD, so JoePa drops it? And still allows him access to his buildings? On November 11 2011 05:59 stokes17 wrote:On November 11 2011 05:55 Risen wrote:On November 11 2011 05:54 Jibba wrote: What does this have to do with anything? It supports the fact that maybe JoePa was under the assumption that the issue had been investigated and nothing had been found. I can't stay away ahh!! No dood it doesn't show that. If there was an investigation and nothing was found.... why the fuck would you promote McQuerey to head of recruiting after making such a heinous baseless claim? It shows that McQuerey was really good at recruiting. Why else would McQuerey stay knowing the man he had accused was still around? Edit: I am not naive, I have stated that I believe in my gut that JoePa knew more or didn't do everything in his power to stop the actions of Sandusky. I am reserving judgement until something confirms my gut feelings, though. Which is what I expect everyone else to do. Some people disagree with this. Ok so if the accuser and the one being accused both still work at the university. That means the case was not resolved. Because either McQuerey lied, or Snadusky raped a kid. One of those must be true, and failing to determine which is true, by sweeping the whole thing under the rug is a cover up. Joe saw this going on, and turned a blind eye. Idn how many more times i need to say it He should have done more You view it as a coverup, I view it as none of Paterno's business. He reported the issue to his boss and the police, the end. If he's a part of the coverup then gut reaction confirmed. If not, I'm glad I reserved judgement. Should he have quit over the issue? Should he have left the program when neither the GA or Sandunsky was publicly outed? The only people I see confirmed as being a part of the coverup are the athletic director, the head of police, Sandusky, and McQuerey. it doesn't matter if he was active in a cover up. A failure to act can be seen as moral failing. I see Paterno's failure to act as a moral failing. And how the fuck can you say you confirm McQuerey as being in on the cover up when he's the only one still with a job? the speculation whistle blower..... has fallen to speculation You are correct. My apologies. I meant to say that if what you say is true "The only people I see confirmed as being a part of the coverup are the athletic director, the head of police, Sandusky, and McQuerey" And I say confirmed because why hasn't he blown the whistle on Sandusky until the grand jury? Why did he wait so long? This isn't a white knight witness. His credibility is in question because he benefitted from the "coverup" Yea for sure, McQuerey clearly benefited from keeping his mouth shut. He probably would have lost his job if he talked. But Joe wouldn't have. He had absolutely NO excuse for remaining silent, which makes it worse. You keep trying to pin me on saying Joe broke the Law. I'm not saying that. I'm saying he failed in his moral duty to protect those who cannot protect themselves. You really are going to tell me Joe did all he could have to protect future children from harm? No he didn't, therefore he failed his moral obligation.
I didn't mean to peg you as saying he failed legally. I apologize for that interpretation.
How do you know Joe wouldn't have lost his job? If McQuerey can lose his job from this so can Paterno. Maybe McQuerey was lying about the whole thing and Paterno goes forward and announces it publicly, he's fucked. He doesn't know whether there's an investigation occuring or not, and he has no right to deny Sandusky anything. He also can't just out of the blue fire McQuerey. He has to sit tight and do nothing, which is exactly what he did.
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On November 11 2011 06:17 Battleaxe wrote:Show nested quote +On November 11 2011 06:13 stokes17 wrote:On November 11 2011 06:10 Risen wrote:On November 11 2011 06:05 stokes17 wrote:On November 11 2011 06:01 Risen wrote:On November 11 2011 05:58 Jibba wrote:
Nothing had been found, but the disturbed GA who saw the rape occur was soon promoted and it was left at that.
At what point, in your opinion, does it become JoePa's moral responsibility to find out what's happening? Is the GA lying? Or is it ok for Sandusky, as long as he's only a molester and not a rapist (which fits with JoePa's statement) to hang around the program?
If McQueary lightened what he saw for JoePa, but JoePa still believes what he was told and passes it on, then JoePa would still believe that Sandusky was molesting a boy in the shower room. So we're at the point where JoePa believes Sandusky was molesting (not raping) a boy in the shower room. Nothing comes of it from the AD, so JoePa drops it? And still allows him access to his buildings? On November 11 2011 05:59 stokes17 wrote:On November 11 2011 05:55 Risen wrote:On November 11 2011 05:54 Jibba wrote: What does this have to do with anything? It supports the fact that maybe JoePa was under the assumption that the issue had been investigated and nothing had been found. I can't stay away ahh!! No dood it doesn't show that. If there was an investigation and nothing was found.... why the fuck would you promote McQuerey to head of recruiting after making such a heinous baseless claim? It shows that McQuerey was really good at recruiting. Why else would McQuerey stay knowing the man he had accused was still around? Edit: I am not naive, I have stated that I believe in my gut that JoePa knew more or didn't do everything in his power to stop the actions of Sandusky. I am reserving judgement until something confirms my gut feelings, though. Which is what I expect everyone else to do. Some people disagree with this. Ok so if the accuser and the one being accused both still work at the university. That means the case was not resolved. Because either McQuerey lied, or Snadusky raped a kid. One of those must be true, and failing to determine which is true, by sweeping the whole thing under the rug is a cover up. Joe saw this going on, and turned a blind eye. Idn how many more times i need to say it He should have done more You view it as a coverup, I view it as none of Paterno's business. He reported the issue to his boss and the police, the end. If he's a part of the coverup then gut reaction confirmed. If not, I'm glad I reserved judgement. Should he have quit over the issue? Should he have left the program when neither the GA or Sandunsky was publicly outed? The only people I see confirmed as being a part of the coverup are the athletic director, the head of police, Sandusky, and McQuerey. it doesn't matter if he was active in a cover up. A failure to act can be seen as moral failing. I see Paterno's failure to act as a moral failing. And how the fuck can you say you confirm McQuerey as being in on the cover up when he's the only one still with a job? the speculation whistle blower..... has fallen to speculation On break so I'll come back for this one. Would be ok saying the reason you feel Paterno was fired was because he didn't "do enough" and is therefore morally responsible? If so, I think you should also be calling for the same justice for McQueary, as he actually witnessed the act in person, went to his superior the same as Joe Pa did, did not follow up with the police like Joe Pa did, yet still remains with a job. If you think Paterno was fired for a larger reason then that, fine. But if not you should be willing to concede this point
I see Joe's firing as separate from any discussion of his moral accountability. Most likely they are just focusing on the business side, and firing him was the correct business move. But on the note of jobs, IMHO the whole staff and administration needs to go. This is easily the worst scandal to ever taint a university, athletics or otherwise. If the rumors are true the worst is yet to have even been revealed.
Everyone who remained silent, from the janitor, to the president should be fucking ashamed of the lives that were put at risk and ruined by their silence.
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On November 11 2011 06:23 stokes17 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 11 2011 06:17 Battleaxe wrote:On November 11 2011 06:13 stokes17 wrote:On November 11 2011 06:10 Risen wrote:On November 11 2011 06:05 stokes17 wrote:On November 11 2011 06:01 Risen wrote:On November 11 2011 05:58 Jibba wrote:
Nothing had been found, but the disturbed GA who saw the rape occur was soon promoted and it was left at that.
At what point, in your opinion, does it become JoePa's moral responsibility to find out what's happening? Is the GA lying? Or is it ok for Sandusky, as long as he's only a molester and not a rapist (which fits with JoePa's statement) to hang around the program?
If McQueary lightened what he saw for JoePa, but JoePa still believes what he was told and passes it on, then JoePa would still believe that Sandusky was molesting a boy in the shower room. So we're at the point where JoePa believes Sandusky was molesting (not raping) a boy in the shower room. Nothing comes of it from the AD, so JoePa drops it? And still allows him access to his buildings? On November 11 2011 05:59 stokes17 wrote:On November 11 2011 05:55 Risen wrote:On November 11 2011 05:54 Jibba wrote: What does this have to do with anything? It supports the fact that maybe JoePa was under the assumption that the issue had been investigated and nothing had been found. I can't stay away ahh!! No dood it doesn't show that. If there was an investigation and nothing was found.... why the fuck would you promote McQuerey to head of recruiting after making such a heinous baseless claim? It shows that McQuerey was really good at recruiting. Why else would McQuerey stay knowing the man he had accused was still around? Edit: I am not naive, I have stated that I believe in my gut that JoePa knew more or didn't do everything in his power to stop the actions of Sandusky. I am reserving judgement until something confirms my gut feelings, though. Which is what I expect everyone else to do. Some people disagree with this. Ok so if the accuser and the one being accused both still work at the university. That means the case was not resolved. Because either McQuerey lied, or Snadusky raped a kid. One of those must be true, and failing to determine which is true, by sweeping the whole thing under the rug is a cover up. Joe saw this going on, and turned a blind eye. Idn how many more times i need to say it He should have done more You view it as a coverup, I view it as none of Paterno's business. He reported the issue to his boss and the police, the end. If he's a part of the coverup then gut reaction confirmed. If not, I'm glad I reserved judgement. Should he have quit over the issue? Should he have left the program when neither the GA or Sandunsky was publicly outed? The only people I see confirmed as being a part of the coverup are the athletic director, the head of police, Sandusky, and McQuerey. it doesn't matter if he was active in a cover up. A failure to act can be seen as moral failing. I see Paterno's failure to act as a moral failing. And how the fuck can you say you confirm McQuerey as being in on the cover up when he's the only one still with a job? the speculation whistle blower..... has fallen to speculation On break so I'll come back for this one. Would be ok saying the reason you feel Paterno was fired was because he didn't "do enough" and is therefore morally responsible? If so, I think you should also be calling for the same justice for McQueary, as he actually witnessed the act in person, went to his superior the same as Joe Pa did, did not follow up with the police like Joe Pa did, yet still remains with a job. If you think Paterno was fired for a larger reason then that, fine. But if not you should be willing to concede this point I see Joe's firing as separate from any discussion of his moral accountability. Most likely they are just focusing on the business side, and firing him was the correct business move. But on the note of jobs, IMHO the whole staff and administration needs to go. This is easily the worst scandal to ever taint a university, athletics or otherwise. If the rumors are true the worst is yet to have even been revealed. Everyone who remained silent, from the janitor, to the president should be fucking ashamed of the lives that were put at risk and ruined by their silence.
Actually the best part is that if this wasn't an athletic program affected by it, there wouldn't even have been a coverup. Anyone even remotely possible of being guilty of sexual assault would've been investigated/fired. But there's too much money in football for that to happen.
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On November 11 2011 06:23 Risen wrote:Show nested quote +On November 11 2011 06:20 stokes17 wrote:On November 11 2011 06:16 Risen wrote:On November 11 2011 06:13 stokes17 wrote:On November 11 2011 06:10 Risen wrote:On November 11 2011 06:05 stokes17 wrote:On November 11 2011 06:01 Risen wrote:On November 11 2011 05:58 Jibba wrote:
Nothing had been found, but the disturbed GA who saw the rape occur was soon promoted and it was left at that.
At what point, in your opinion, does it become JoePa's moral responsibility to find out what's happening? Is the GA lying? Or is it ok for Sandusky, as long as he's only a molester and not a rapist (which fits with JoePa's statement) to hang around the program?
If McQueary lightened what he saw for JoePa, but JoePa still believes what he was told and passes it on, then JoePa would still believe that Sandusky was molesting a boy in the shower room. So we're at the point where JoePa believes Sandusky was molesting (not raping) a boy in the shower room. Nothing comes of it from the AD, so JoePa drops it? And still allows him access to his buildings? On November 11 2011 05:59 stokes17 wrote:On November 11 2011 05:55 Risen wrote:On November 11 2011 05:54 Jibba wrote:
[quote] What does this have to do with anything? It supports the fact that maybe JoePa was under the assumption that the issue had been investigated and nothing had been found. I can't stay away ahh!! No dood it doesn't show that. If there was an investigation and nothing was found.... why the fuck would you promote McQuerey to head of recruiting after making such a heinous baseless claim? It shows that McQuerey was really good at recruiting. Why else would McQuerey stay knowing the man he had accused was still around? Edit: I am not naive, I have stated that I believe in my gut that JoePa knew more or didn't do everything in his power to stop the actions of Sandusky. I am reserving judgement until something confirms my gut feelings, though. Which is what I expect everyone else to do. Some people disagree with this. Ok so if the accuser and the one being accused both still work at the university. That means the case was not resolved. Because either McQuerey lied, or Snadusky raped a kid. One of those must be true, and failing to determine which is true, by sweeping the whole thing under the rug is a cover up. Joe saw this going on, and turned a blind eye. Idn how many more times i need to say it He should have done more You view it as a coverup, I view it as none of Paterno's business. He reported the issue to his boss and the police, the end. If he's a part of the coverup then gut reaction confirmed. If not, I'm glad I reserved judgement. Should he have quit over the issue? Should he have left the program when neither the GA or Sandunsky was publicly outed? The only people I see confirmed as being a part of the coverup are the athletic director, the head of police, Sandusky, and McQuerey. it doesn't matter if he was active in a cover up. A failure to act can be seen as moral failing. I see Paterno's failure to act as a moral failing. And how the fuck can you say you confirm McQuerey as being in on the cover up when he's the only one still with a job? the speculation whistle blower..... has fallen to speculation You are correct. My apologies. I meant to say that if what you say is true "The only people I see confirmed as being a part of the coverup are the athletic director, the head of police, Sandusky, and McQuerey" And I say confirmed because why hasn't he blown the whistle on Sandusky until the grand jury? Why did he wait so long? This isn't a white knight witness. His credibility is in question because he benefitted from the "coverup" Yea for sure, McQuerey clearly benefited from keeping his mouth shut. He probably would have lost his job if he talked. But Joe wouldn't have. He had absolutely NO excuse for remaining silent, which makes it worse. You keep trying to pin me on saying Joe broke the Law. I'm not saying that. I'm saying he failed in his moral duty to protect those who cannot protect themselves. You really are going to tell me Joe did all he could have to protect future children from harm? No he didn't, therefore he failed his moral obligation. I didn't mean to peg you as saying he failed legally. I apologize for that interpretation. How do you know Joe wouldn't have lost his job? If McQuerey can lose his job from this so can Paterno. Maybe McQuerey was lying about the whole thing and Paterno goes forward and announces it publicly, he's fucked. He doesn't know whether there's an investigation occuring or not, and he has no right to deny Sandusky anything. He also can't just out of the blue fire McQuerey. He has to sit tight and do nothing, which is exactly what he did.
I am beyond certain that if Paterno called child services to investigate Sandusky he would not have lost his job.
If you are going to tell me Joe "had to sit tight and do nothing" when child's lives were at risk. Then we are done talking I'm afraid.
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On November 11 2011 06:26 JinNJuice wrote:Show nested quote +On November 11 2011 06:23 stokes17 wrote:On November 11 2011 06:17 Battleaxe wrote:On November 11 2011 06:13 stokes17 wrote:On November 11 2011 06:10 Risen wrote:On November 11 2011 06:05 stokes17 wrote:On November 11 2011 06:01 Risen wrote:On November 11 2011 05:58 Jibba wrote:
Nothing had been found, but the disturbed GA who saw the rape occur was soon promoted and it was left at that.
At what point, in your opinion, does it become JoePa's moral responsibility to find out what's happening? Is the GA lying? Or is it ok for Sandusky, as long as he's only a molester and not a rapist (which fits with JoePa's statement) to hang around the program?
If McQueary lightened what he saw for JoePa, but JoePa still believes what he was told and passes it on, then JoePa would still believe that Sandusky was molesting a boy in the shower room. So we're at the point where JoePa believes Sandusky was molesting (not raping) a boy in the shower room. Nothing comes of it from the AD, so JoePa drops it? And still allows him access to his buildings? On November 11 2011 05:59 stokes17 wrote:On November 11 2011 05:55 Risen wrote:On November 11 2011 05:54 Jibba wrote:
[quote] What does this have to do with anything? It supports the fact that maybe JoePa was under the assumption that the issue had been investigated and nothing had been found. I can't stay away ahh!! No dood it doesn't show that. If there was an investigation and nothing was found.... why the fuck would you promote McQuerey to head of recruiting after making such a heinous baseless claim? It shows that McQuerey was really good at recruiting. Why else would McQuerey stay knowing the man he had accused was still around? Edit: I am not naive, I have stated that I believe in my gut that JoePa knew more or didn't do everything in his power to stop the actions of Sandusky. I am reserving judgement until something confirms my gut feelings, though. Which is what I expect everyone else to do. Some people disagree with this. Ok so if the accuser and the one being accused both still work at the university. That means the case was not resolved. Because either McQuerey lied, or Snadusky raped a kid. One of those must be true, and failing to determine which is true, by sweeping the whole thing under the rug is a cover up. Joe saw this going on, and turned a blind eye. Idn how many more times i need to say it He should have done more You view it as a coverup, I view it as none of Paterno's business. He reported the issue to his boss and the police, the end. If he's a part of the coverup then gut reaction confirmed. If not, I'm glad I reserved judgement. Should he have quit over the issue? Should he have left the program when neither the GA or Sandunsky was publicly outed? The only people I see confirmed as being a part of the coverup are the athletic director, the head of police, Sandusky, and McQuerey. it doesn't matter if he was active in a cover up. A failure to act can be seen as moral failing. I see Paterno's failure to act as a moral failing. And how the fuck can you say you confirm McQuerey as being in on the cover up when he's the only one still with a job? the speculation whistle blower..... has fallen to speculation On break so I'll come back for this one. Would be ok saying the reason you feel Paterno was fired was because he didn't "do enough" and is therefore morally responsible? If so, I think you should also be calling for the same justice for McQueary, as he actually witnessed the act in person, went to his superior the same as Joe Pa did, did not follow up with the police like Joe Pa did, yet still remains with a job. If you think Paterno was fired for a larger reason then that, fine. But if not you should be willing to concede this point I see Joe's firing as separate from any discussion of his moral accountability. Most likely they are just focusing on the business side, and firing him was the correct business move. But on the note of jobs, IMHO the whole staff and administration needs to go. This is easily the worst scandal to ever taint a university, athletics or otherwise. If the rumors are true the worst is yet to have even been revealed. Everyone who remained silent, from the janitor, to the president should be fucking ashamed of the lives that were put at risk and ruined by their silence. Actually the best part is that if this wasn't an athletic program affected by it, there wouldn't even have been a coverup. Anyone even remotely possible of being guilty of sexual assault would've been investigated/fired. But there's too much money in football for that to happen.
PSU football program, one of the most profitable in the country, accounts for not even 2% of the PSU endowment. It wasn't about money. It was about reputation..
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On November 11 2011 06:27 stokes17 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 11 2011 06:23 Risen wrote:On November 11 2011 06:20 stokes17 wrote:On November 11 2011 06:16 Risen wrote:On November 11 2011 06:13 stokes17 wrote:On November 11 2011 06:10 Risen wrote:On November 11 2011 06:05 stokes17 wrote:On November 11 2011 06:01 Risen wrote:On November 11 2011 05:58 Jibba wrote:
Nothing had been found, but the disturbed GA who saw the rape occur was soon promoted and it was left at that.
At what point, in your opinion, does it become JoePa's moral responsibility to find out what's happening? Is the GA lying? Or is it ok for Sandusky, as long as he's only a molester and not a rapist (which fits with JoePa's statement) to hang around the program?
If McQueary lightened what he saw for JoePa, but JoePa still believes what he was told and passes it on, then JoePa would still believe that Sandusky was molesting a boy in the shower room. So we're at the point where JoePa believes Sandusky was molesting (not raping) a boy in the shower room. Nothing comes of it from the AD, so JoePa drops it? And still allows him access to his buildings? On November 11 2011 05:59 stokes17 wrote:On November 11 2011 05:55 Risen wrote:
[quote]
What does this have to do with anything? It supports the fact that maybe JoePa was under the assumption that the issue had been investigated and nothing had been found. I can't stay away ahh!! No dood it doesn't show that. If there was an investigation and nothing was found.... why the fuck would you promote McQuerey to head of recruiting after making such a heinous baseless claim? It shows that McQuerey was really good at recruiting. Why else would McQuerey stay knowing the man he had accused was still around? Edit: I am not naive, I have stated that I believe in my gut that JoePa knew more or didn't do everything in his power to stop the actions of Sandusky. I am reserving judgement until something confirms my gut feelings, though. Which is what I expect everyone else to do. Some people disagree with this. Ok so if the accuser and the one being accused both still work at the university. That means the case was not resolved. Because either McQuerey lied, or Snadusky raped a kid. One of those must be true, and failing to determine which is true, by sweeping the whole thing under the rug is a cover up. Joe saw this going on, and turned a blind eye. Idn how many more times i need to say it He should have done more You view it as a coverup, I view it as none of Paterno's business. He reported the issue to his boss and the police, the end. If he's a part of the coverup then gut reaction confirmed. If not, I'm glad I reserved judgement. Should he have quit over the issue? Should he have left the program when neither the GA or Sandunsky was publicly outed? The only people I see confirmed as being a part of the coverup are the athletic director, the head of police, Sandusky, and McQuerey. it doesn't matter if he was active in a cover up. A failure to act can be seen as moral failing. I see Paterno's failure to act as a moral failing. And how the fuck can you say you confirm McQuerey as being in on the cover up when he's the only one still with a job? the speculation whistle blower..... has fallen to speculation You are correct. My apologies. I meant to say that if what you say is true "The only people I see confirmed as being a part of the coverup are the athletic director, the head of police, Sandusky, and McQuerey" And I say confirmed because why hasn't he blown the whistle on Sandusky until the grand jury? Why did he wait so long? This isn't a white knight witness. His credibility is in question because he benefitted from the "coverup" Yea for sure, McQuerey clearly benefited from keeping his mouth shut. He probably would have lost his job if he talked. But Joe wouldn't have. He had absolutely NO excuse for remaining silent, which makes it worse. You keep trying to pin me on saying Joe broke the Law. I'm not saying that. I'm saying he failed in his moral duty to protect those who cannot protect themselves. You really are going to tell me Joe did all he could have to protect future children from harm? No he didn't, therefore he failed his moral obligation. I didn't mean to peg you as saying he failed legally. I apologize for that interpretation. How do you know Joe wouldn't have lost his job? If McQuerey can lose his job from this so can Paterno. Maybe McQuerey was lying about the whole thing and Paterno goes forward and announces it publicly, he's fucked. He doesn't know whether there's an investigation occuring or not, and he has no right to deny Sandusky anything. He also can't just out of the blue fire McQuerey. He has to sit tight and do nothing, which is exactly what he did. I am beyond certain that if Paterno called child services to investigate Sandusky he would not have lost his job. If you are going to tell me Joe " had to sit tight and do nothing" when child's lives were at risk. Then we are done talking I'm afraid.
Not really actually. There's also something called slander and/or defamation, which is a crime as well. You can't just announce to people that someone is a serial child rapist without evidence. What if McQuerey decided to keep quiet after telling Paterno and Paterno announced it?
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http://thatlawyerdude.blogspot.com/2011/11/strong-defense-of-joe-paterno-why.html
Paterno reported the incident to someone who was essentially (according to state statute that gives campus police the same authority as SC municipal police officers) the commissioner of a several-hundred strong police force; he didn't just "pass off the shit to the AD," he gave it to the highest ranking police officer in the area, who called in the actual witness and spoke to him.
It sucks, hindsight is 20/20, etc, etc, but JoePa is not the monster that the media made him out to be.
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On November 11 2011 06:30 InvincibleRice wrote:http://thatlawyerdude.blogspot.com/2011/11/strong-defense-of-joe-paterno-why.htmlPaterno reported the incident to someone who was essentially (according to state statute that gives campus police the same authority as SC municipal police officers) the commissioner of a several-hundred strong police force; he didn't just "pass off the shit to the AD," he gave it to the highest ranking police officer in the area, who called in the actual witness and spoke to him. It sucks, hindsight is 20/20, etc, etc, but JoePa is not the monster that the media made him out to be.
Thank god you linked that. I had just found it.
On November 11 2011 06:27 stokes17 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 11 2011 06:23 Risen wrote:On November 11 2011 06:20 stokes17 wrote:On November 11 2011 06:16 Risen wrote:On November 11 2011 06:13 stokes17 wrote:On November 11 2011 06:10 Risen wrote:On November 11 2011 06:05 stokes17 wrote:On November 11 2011 06:01 Risen wrote:On November 11 2011 05:58 Jibba wrote:
Nothing had been found, but the disturbed GA who saw the rape occur was soon promoted and it was left at that.
At what point, in your opinion, does it become JoePa's moral responsibility to find out what's happening? Is the GA lying? Or is it ok for Sandusky, as long as he's only a molester and not a rapist (which fits with JoePa's statement) to hang around the program?
If McQueary lightened what he saw for JoePa, but JoePa still believes what he was told and passes it on, then JoePa would still believe that Sandusky was molesting a boy in the shower room. So we're at the point where JoePa believes Sandusky was molesting (not raping) a boy in the shower room. Nothing comes of it from the AD, so JoePa drops it? And still allows him access to his buildings? On November 11 2011 05:59 stokes17 wrote:On November 11 2011 05:55 Risen wrote:
[quote]
What does this have to do with anything? It supports the fact that maybe JoePa was under the assumption that the issue had been investigated and nothing had been found. I can't stay away ahh!! No dood it doesn't show that. If there was an investigation and nothing was found.... why the fuck would you promote McQuerey to head of recruiting after making such a heinous baseless claim? It shows that McQuerey was really good at recruiting. Why else would McQuerey stay knowing the man he had accused was still around? Edit: I am not naive, I have stated that I believe in my gut that JoePa knew more or didn't do everything in his power to stop the actions of Sandusky. I am reserving judgement until something confirms my gut feelings, though. Which is what I expect everyone else to do. Some people disagree with this. Ok so if the accuser and the one being accused both still work at the university. That means the case was not resolved. Because either McQuerey lied, or Snadusky raped a kid. One of those must be true, and failing to determine which is true, by sweeping the whole thing under the rug is a cover up. Joe saw this going on, and turned a blind eye. Idn how many more times i need to say it He should have done more You view it as a coverup, I view it as none of Paterno's business. He reported the issue to his boss and the police, the end. If he's a part of the coverup then gut reaction confirmed. If not, I'm glad I reserved judgement. Should he have quit over the issue? Should he have left the program when neither the GA or Sandunsky was publicly outed? The only people I see confirmed as being a part of the coverup are the athletic director, the head of police, Sandusky, and McQuerey. it doesn't matter if he was active in a cover up. A failure to act can be seen as moral failing. I see Paterno's failure to act as a moral failing. And how the fuck can you say you confirm McQuerey as being in on the cover up when he's the only one still with a job? the speculation whistle blower..... has fallen to speculation You are correct. My apologies. I meant to say that if what you say is true "The only people I see confirmed as being a part of the coverup are the athletic director, the head of police, Sandusky, and McQuerey" And I say confirmed because why hasn't he blown the whistle on Sandusky until the grand jury? Why did he wait so long? This isn't a white knight witness. His credibility is in question because he benefitted from the "coverup" Yea for sure, McQuerey clearly benefited from keeping his mouth shut. He probably would have lost his job if he talked. But Joe wouldn't have. He had absolutely NO excuse for remaining silent, which makes it worse. You keep trying to pin me on saying Joe broke the Law. I'm not saying that. I'm saying he failed in his moral duty to protect those who cannot protect themselves. You really are going to tell me Joe did all he could have to protect future children from harm? No he didn't, therefore he failed his moral obligation. I didn't mean to peg you as saying he failed legally. I apologize for that interpretation. How do you know Joe wouldn't have lost his job? If McQuerey can lose his job from this so can Paterno. Maybe McQuerey was lying about the whole thing and Paterno goes forward and announces it publicly, he's fucked. He doesn't know whether there's an investigation occuring or not, and he has no right to deny Sandusky anything. He also can't just out of the blue fire McQuerey. He has to sit tight and do nothing, which is exactly what he did. I am beyond certain that if Paterno called child services to investigate Sandusky he would not have lost his job. If you are going to tell me Joe " had to sit tight and do nothing" when child's lives were at risk. Then we are done talking I'm afraid.
Please read the article. To take a quote out of it.
"After contacting his chain of command superiors, he let them do their jobs. He knew there was a campus police force that investigates ( and prosecutes ) crimes on campus. He took whatever information he had to the head of his department. He took it to the person who is, for all intents and purposes, the police commissioner of a 256 person police force which according to the Campus website says: "(The University Police are) governed by a state statute that gives our officers the same authority as municipal police officers."
Paterno didn't just give his information to a superior, he turned it over to the highest ranking official in that police department. That man, PSU's VP of Business called in the ACTUAL WITNESS and spoke to him. In other words Paterno could see an investigation."
What MORE should he have done? He sees an investigation, he has informed an effective police chief. What MORE can he do? You're right, he can anonymously inform child protective sources, and he didn't. This is a mistake, but it isn't a morally damaging one.
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so if mcquerey never told paterno, would you still fire paterno?
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On November 11 2011 06:30 JinNJuice wrote:Show nested quote +On November 11 2011 06:27 stokes17 wrote:On November 11 2011 06:23 Risen wrote:On November 11 2011 06:20 stokes17 wrote:On November 11 2011 06:16 Risen wrote:On November 11 2011 06:13 stokes17 wrote:On November 11 2011 06:10 Risen wrote:On November 11 2011 06:05 stokes17 wrote:On November 11 2011 06:01 Risen wrote:On November 11 2011 05:58 Jibba wrote:
Nothing had been found, but the disturbed GA who saw the rape occur was soon promoted and it was left at that.
At what point, in your opinion, does it become JoePa's moral responsibility to find out what's happening? Is the GA lying? Or is it ok for Sandusky, as long as he's only a molester and not a rapist (which fits with JoePa's statement) to hang around the program?
If McQueary lightened what he saw for JoePa, but JoePa still believes what he was told and passes it on, then JoePa would still believe that Sandusky was molesting a boy in the shower room. So we're at the point where JoePa believes Sandusky was molesting (not raping) a boy in the shower room. Nothing comes of it from the AD, so JoePa drops it? And still allows him access to his buildings? On November 11 2011 05:59 stokes17 wrote:
[quote]
I can't stay away ahh!!
No dood it doesn't show that. If there was an investigation and nothing was found.... why the fuck would you promote McQuerey to head of recruiting after making such a heinous baseless claim? It shows that McQuerey was really good at recruiting. Why else would McQuerey stay knowing the man he had accused was still around? Edit: I am not naive, I have stated that I believe in my gut that JoePa knew more or didn't do everything in his power to stop the actions of Sandusky. I am reserving judgement until something confirms my gut feelings, though. Which is what I expect everyone else to do. Some people disagree with this. Ok so if the accuser and the one being accused both still work at the university. That means the case was not resolved. Because either McQuerey lied, or Snadusky raped a kid. One of those must be true, and failing to determine which is true, by sweeping the whole thing under the rug is a cover up. Joe saw this going on, and turned a blind eye. Idn how many more times i need to say it He should have done more You view it as a coverup, I view it as none of Paterno's business. He reported the issue to his boss and the police, the end. If he's a part of the coverup then gut reaction confirmed. If not, I'm glad I reserved judgement. Should he have quit over the issue? Should he have left the program when neither the GA or Sandunsky was publicly outed? The only people I see confirmed as being a part of the coverup are the athletic director, the head of police, Sandusky, and McQuerey. it doesn't matter if he was active in a cover up. A failure to act can be seen as moral failing. I see Paterno's failure to act as a moral failing. And how the fuck can you say you confirm McQuerey as being in on the cover up when he's the only one still with a job? the speculation whistle blower..... has fallen to speculation You are correct. My apologies. I meant to say that if what you say is true "The only people I see confirmed as being a part of the coverup are the athletic director, the head of police, Sandusky, and McQuerey" And I say confirmed because why hasn't he blown the whistle on Sandusky until the grand jury? Why did he wait so long? This isn't a white knight witness. His credibility is in question because he benefitted from the "coverup" Yea for sure, McQuerey clearly benefited from keeping his mouth shut. He probably would have lost his job if he talked. But Joe wouldn't have. He had absolutely NO excuse for remaining silent, which makes it worse. You keep trying to pin me on saying Joe broke the Law. I'm not saying that. I'm saying he failed in his moral duty to protect those who cannot protect themselves. You really are going to tell me Joe did all he could have to protect future children from harm? No he didn't, therefore he failed his moral obligation. I didn't mean to peg you as saying he failed legally. I apologize for that interpretation. How do you know Joe wouldn't have lost his job? If McQuerey can lose his job from this so can Paterno. Maybe McQuerey was lying about the whole thing and Paterno goes forward and announces it publicly, he's fucked. He doesn't know whether there's an investigation occuring or not, and he has no right to deny Sandusky anything. He also can't just out of the blue fire McQuerey. He has to sit tight and do nothing, which is exactly what he did. I am beyond certain that if Paterno called child services to investigate Sandusky he would not have lost his job. If you are going to tell me Joe " had to sit tight and do nothing" when child's lives were at risk. Then we are done talking I'm afraid. Not really actually. There's also something called slander and/or defamation, which is a crime as well. You can't just announce to people that someone is a serial child rapist without evidence. What if McQuerey decided to keep quiet after telling Paterno and Paterno announced it?
How would calling child services to investigate a claim of inappropriate conduct between a 60YO and a 10YO in a shower make Paterno guilty of defamation or slander? Do you know what those words mean?
Slander-from wikipedia
"Defamation" is the general term used internationally, and is used in this article where it is not necessary to distinguish between "slander" and "libel". Libel and slander both require publication.[12] The fundamental distinction between libel and slander lies solely in the form in which the defamatory matter is published. If the offending material is published in some fleeting form, as by spoken words or sounds, sign language, gestures and the like, then this is slander.
Calling child services would not constitute publishing a claim.
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