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Memrise: Learning languages with a game approach - Page 65

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Catbus
Profile Joined June 2011
80 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-11-28 14:11:13
November 28 2012 07:25 GMT
#1281
I really dont like the latest changes they made. I really need to practise words alot for them to stick and now I can only practise when they need watering? I also cant practise words that are waiting to be harvested and you can only practise words in the groups of 25 in which you learn them.

If these changes stick then I am not sure if I will learn much by using memrise

EDIT: That was a quick fix, the practise button is back. At least for now and I am happy again
spangled
Profile Joined March 2012
United States24 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-11-29 23:25:51
November 29 2012 23:24 GMT
#1282
The scores from the beta have been transferred over today, hooray!!!!

Not sure about courses and learning history though but at least it's starting.

I tried editing my course today, 25 words per level is apparantly not as opitmal for memorizing, as 15 words is.

Made the changes but :r it appears now the learner has to re plant the new levels (w/ 15words) and start over again.

I am the Master of My Fate: I am the Captain of My Soul. William Ernest Henley
MasterOfChaos
Profile Blog Joined April 2007
Germany2896 Posts
November 30 2012 09:53 GMT
#1283
Why hooray? I'd prefer staying with the beta version. The new site is a huge downgrade from the beta.

No shared learning history between courses, annoying split between pronunciation and writing, forces me to learn certain pronunciations because I can't unlearn/ignore them, wrong labels (asks for pronunciation, expects writing),...

Pretty much unusable IMO.
LiquipediaOne eye to kill. Two eyes to live.
ShadowDrgn
Profile Blog Joined July 2007
United States2497 Posts
November 30 2012 10:35 GMT
#1284
Yeah, the new site is kind of a disaster. Not only is it months delayed, but it's missing all the usability features that they spent a year working on for the beta site. The redesign is very questionable such that even if they fix all my complaints, I'm still not sure it'll be superior to the old version.
Of course, you only live one life, and you make all your mistakes, and learn what not to do, and that’s the end of you.
Tal
Profile Blog Joined May 2004
United Kingdom1018 Posts
November 30 2012 11:39 GMT
#1285
The old site was too damn slow, and a lot of things were hard to do on it. Hopefully with this rebuild it will do well.

Having said that, I'm astounded they would transfer everyone over and publicly launch (with a Guardian feature and everything), with the site in its current state. Between the various problems I don't think anyone is having a good experience, and current forum posts reflect that.

When this thread first started I fell in love with Memrise, but things only seem to have gotten worse in that huge span of time. I had given up on the old site, and it looks like I'll be holding off on the new site for a while too.
It is what you read when you don't have to that determines what you will be when you can't help it.
solidbebe
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Netherlands4921 Posts
November 30 2012 14:10 GMT
#1286
I agree, I dont like this new site at all :/. Ive noticed Ive been visiting memrise less and less nowadays.
That's the 2nd time in a week I've seen someone sig a quote from this GD and I have never witnessed a sig quote happen in my TL history ever before. -Najda
Namenlos
Profile Joined December 2010
Germany96 Posts
November 30 2012 17:04 GMT
#1287
Any possibility to export the courses and import it into anki or sth else? Even the spreadsheet export function seems gone . It seems like I can't even open the words one by one, maybe thats a protection against grabbing the words with a wget script.
Scarecrow
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
Korea (South)9175 Posts
December 01 2012 00:24 GMT
#1288
I miss the beta, the new version is like going from B.net to B.net 2.0
Yhamm is the god of predictions
[]Phase[]
Profile Joined September 2010
Belgium927 Posts
December 01 2012 10:52 GMT
#1289
gotta agree, there are a few things I really dont like about the new site and things I miss from the old site. Man, when I heard memrise 1.0 was coming I thought 'owyeah, EVEN better!'. what a letdown tho
Nevermind86
Profile Joined August 2009
Somalia429 Posts
December 01 2012 13:16 GMT
#1290
Me being a spanisn speaker I have to say that memrise helped a LOT with french because I could hear similar words with different pronunciation a million times, but when I started learning russian I realized the memrise method was almost useless, so I use forvo now, just type in the word and repeat it a million times because since they're so different compared to my native spanish, then it's pretty hard to use memrise, yes you can repeat words in memrise a lot, but I rather do it manually with forvo, plus I get to pick the words I want to learn and the pronunciation is way better in forvo because they use mostly native speakers, compared to memrise that sometimes uses some kind of electronic voice that doesn't sound so good, much like google. So yea memrise is good but forvo is better if the language you're learning is very different in my opinion, now with chinese I think I'll return to memrise because they have all the pretty good looking images! but that's not gonna happend any time soon lol.
Interviewer: Many people hate you and would like to see you dead. How does that make you feel? Trevor Goodchild: Those people should get to know me a little better. Then they'd know I don't indulge in feelings.
YoucriedWolf
Profile Joined July 2010
Sweden1456 Posts
December 01 2012 15:47 GMT
#1291
Just got forced into the 1.0...

No shared learning history? U srs?? Are they implementing this?
MasterOfChaos
Profile Blog Joined April 2007
Germany2896 Posts
December 01 2012 16:07 GMT
#1292
On December 02 2012 00:47 YoucriedWolf wrote:
Just got forced into the 1.0...

No shared learning history? U srs?? Are they implementing this?

It's by design. But perhaps if enough people complain in their forums they'll change it back...
LiquipediaOne eye to kill. Two eyes to live.
Tal
Profile Blog Joined May 2004
United Kingdom1018 Posts
December 02 2012 01:36 GMT
#1293
Ben posted a detailed explanation of the reasons for the changes. I made a thread about it in the forums, but it bears repeating.

Ben posted a long, excellent reply to a couple of the threads criticizing the new site. If you haven't read it here it is, then I have some comments.

"Thank you all very much for all of your feedback - and I am very sorry that so many of you are not enjoying the new site yet.

I think that there is a sense among some of you that we have made this transition too quickly, without testing and without thinking. This is not the case. I don't want in any way to give the impression that there are no bugs in this process, or that I don't totally understand your irritation at those bugs - I do. But it seems that it might be fair to give you a bit more of an in depth description of our reasons for making the change now.

This was always going to be a difficult balancing act: the Memrise beta site was the result of two and a half years of very hard work and a lot more than that in planning, research and forming of the ideas. We passionately believed in every feature that we designed built, tested and used. We know and care more deeply than anyone about those features (eg the shared dictionary, which I have, as Dave 114 says, discussed more on this thread http://www.memrise.com/thread/1284629/). We have made no changes without considering them carefully.

Memrise beta was effective, but it was also incredibly complex. At the scale at which we were operating it was becoming a full time job for four people just to keep it running. To make it work with larger numbers was going to be much more technically difficult (and more expensive). And although it was effective at what it did, it was doing only a tiny fraction of what we planned for it to do. And we had no way to continue expanding into better and more effective learning tools because all of our resources were taken up on the beta site.

Keeping the beta site going was simply not an option open to us. So instead we took everything that we had learned from the the beta site, both in terms of the most important features and in terms of what we personally had learned about how to structure this kind of website. We re-structured and re-architected the entire site to be able to run at much larger scale and to be much easier to navigate and to understand. We have not yet added back in all of the features that were good from the beta site, but we will add in most of them (not the shared dictionary) back in.

So why have we made the transition now, before all of the features are in? As I said, this is a balancing act, and picking the right moment is always going to be hard. The key constraint for us is obviously our limited manpower. We are a small team. While half the team are taken up maintaining the old site, development is necessarily slower on the new site.

So we set up all the machinery to perform the transfer of users from the old to the new site, but before we started the process, we first opened up the new site to new people coming to Memrise for the first time, and left the old users using the old site. This was the final phase of testing where we could see what the site was like to people who have not seen any Memrise before: we have rich data on how many people start learning, get engaged in learning and how they use the beta site, so we can compare very effectively with the new site.

After just two weeks there were more people using the new site than using the old site. That was before we had transferred more than a handful of old users to the new site. So at that point we had more people on the new site, which was also growing faster: it was clear that it was in some sense a "better" product than the beta site. Not more complete, but more engaging and more popular with more people. At the point that we had more people on the new than the old site, we were certain that, while there would still be a difficult transition, because no-one likes to have their learning habits disrupted by outside events, the Memrise 1.0 site was now objectively of a level of quality that we could in good faith start the migration.

Again, I don't want any of that to give the sense that we don't care about your problems here - we do, and we are fixing most of these issues, many of which relate specifically to the process of the transfer from beta to 1.0. So to get onto those specifics:

One of the persistent issues is that there is far greater flexibility in the new site for course creators to choose the settings for the courses: direction of testing, what is displayed during tests, whether to mark strictly on accents or not etc. There have been errors in getting all of the settings in the right places on the right courses for the courses that were imported from Memrise beta. We are getting all of these fixed ASAP, and all reports are hugely appreciated.

@Brock, the problem with not showing the definition when you are learning the pinyin is just that sort of bug - the setting has not been checked by the course creator (probably me) to set that info to show. Can you let me know which course you are learning (send me the link) and I will do that for you right away. I will get it done on all the Chinese courses as well ASAP.

The pinyin not flashing up after correct tests on meanings is a feature that hasn't been put in to the new site yet. I agree on its importance, and we will implement it as soon as possible.

@tpartlett, if you were learning the course then it should have appeared on your dashboard - did it not? Where was it? I would hugely appreciate any report of how the navigation is confusing so that we can smooth that out.

@dkevinb, were all your courses in the same topic on Memrise beta? We will have a "water all" for each category on Memrise 1.0 very soon, that should help with that. I will see if we can combine separate Memrise beta courses into a single course on Memrise 1.0 - that would be much more similar to how the courses that are made on Memrise 1.0 are structured, so would be much easier to use I think. How does that sound to you?

@Dave114 as mentioned in other thread, the editable alternatives will be back in the next day or so, I am really sorry for their absence at the moment - I know how annoying it is. The part of speech showing up during testing will be another setting that will come back in soon.

Please do keep the feedback coming of where there are issues and we can address them right away,

Best wishes, and my sincere apologies for any annoyance that you are suffering.

Ben

Posted by benwhately Dec 1 (8 hours ago)"

After reading this, most users probably feel sympathetic to the Memrise team, and can understand why the new site is in such a bad way. You will probably be willing to give them the few extra months they need to get the new site up to the same standard as the old one.

The problem is that the migration to 1.0 was presented as a huge step forward - we were given the idea that after the slowness and complexity of the beta, this would be the bright new future, that there had been months of testing and this was going to be better in every way.

If instead the upgrade had been communicated along the lines of Ben's post, it would have read something like this:

"Because of our financial constraints, low manpower and specialized skill-set, we are finding maintaining the beta site impossible and unsustainable, as well as being very hard to use for course creators.

Our solution is to build a new site which is sleeker, more efficient, and learns from the mistakes of the last one. We think it's going to give the site a bright future, and we're excited about it. However due to the aforementioned problems, this means we will have to solve problems in new ways. Most noticeably, the powerful interconnected dictionary is going to have to be dropped, which we understand will be painful for some users.

In migrating courses from one site to another, there are likely to be serious problems, and while we're trying our best, we can't guarantee all learning history will be preserved.

Furthermore, because we don't have the manpower to polish this new site while maintaining the beta, after the transfer there is going to be a long period which essentially will be a new alpha/beta, as we adapt old features to the new site, and iron out new bugs.

Going through these sacrifices will be worth it, because it gives the site a future, and will lead to a better site in the end. Please bear with us, and thanks for making the last beta so successful "

TLDR: The new site isn't a polished 1.0, but a second beta as the team makes a more sustainable and user friendly site. It will take time, but it's the only way. This is what we should have been told.
It is what you read when you don't have to that determines what you will be when you can't help it.
SHOOG
Profile Blog Joined December 2011
United States1639 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-12-04 01:34:33
December 04 2012 01:26 GMT
#1294
I come back everyone once in a while to the site just to continue practicing and had a hard time finding where stuff was on the new site. Kinda disappointed with the changes!

Edit: They have you practice in a new way and it makes no sense. (In my Korean course).
ZeroChrome
Profile Joined September 2010
Canada1001 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-12-04 07:56:28
December 04 2012 07:55 GMT
#1295
For some reason every word in my course is at the first level of being planted despite the fact that on the old site I had only learned about 400 of the words in the list (about 1/3 of the total #) and now whenever I want to plant new ones I have to blindly guess on the multiple choice to learn it. Just makes the already tedious planting process even longer.

I don't really see any changes that have improved the site for me but I don't think it's actually any worse than the beta. They just implemented change for the sake of change. I like being able to quit courses as I had quite a few small ones of 20-30 words that I didn't need anymore; but having to wait at the score screen every single time is so annoying.
Forward
Toadesstern
Profile Blog Joined October 2008
Germany16350 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-12-06 14:24:48
December 05 2012 21:20 GMT
#1296
So I haven't done a thing in something like a month. Both because I was busy and because I learned some more by other means. So I just tested it for the first time thinking "well... I probably got like 500 things to water, have to start again or I won't catch up again :p" and well it's really annoying right now.

I tried watering some Kanji and realized I've got to type in every single reading for those with correct punctuation oO
That's just not possible lol, even if I really know ALL of them I have to switch between japanese and german keyboard settings like 5 times for a vocabulary because it's not even accepting the japanese comma, semicolon or space

Is it that way with all the Kanji courses or just the one I started?
Guess I'll stick to normal vocabulary right now

///Edit:/// Oh and I tested the rest now as well. I'm really missing the function to click on vocabulary in my garden. I used to do that to take a look at words I'm having trouble with because I really like writing down those and learn them the old fashioned way if it turns out to be really troublesome. I don't think that's possible anymore or I haven't figured out how to do it yet but other than that I actually like the new site.
Yeah it's slimmer than the old one and nothing perfect but it looks decent and no 1000ms lags. So if they keep on debugging it's going to be awesome imo.
<Elem> >toad in charge of judging lewdness <Elem> how bad can it be <Elem> also wew, that is actually p lewd.
ShadowDrgn
Profile Blog Joined July 2007
United States2497 Posts
December 05 2012 22:47 GMT
#1297
They're going to fix that soon, Toad. It's a pain right now though.
Of course, you only live one life, and you make all your mistakes, and learn what not to do, and that’s the end of you.
ShadowDrgn
Profile Blog Joined July 2007
United States2497 Posts
December 19 2012 10:05 GMT
#1298
Just wanted to bump this to say that they've been fixing things like crazy over the last two weeks. Memrise 1.0 is actually looking pretty good now. The old courses that were copied over from beta are still kind of wonky in some respects, but the new course creation options are so much more flexible than they used to be.
Of course, you only live one life, and you make all your mistakes, and learn what not to do, and that’s the end of you.
SpaceFighting
Profile Joined January 2010
New Zealand690 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-12-19 11:17:23
December 19 2012 11:16 GMT
#1299
just discovered the site and it feels like a site that i can stick to and actually learn a different language, or other types of knowledge... cant believe i havent come across this thread sooner. ive seen alot of comments saying the previous(?) version of the site was better, if it was, i kinda wished i knew about it sooner >_<

thanks for the post! should be a good learning experience

edit: i guess thanks to the above post because he/she is the reason i found the site ^_^
kuz pro
DamnCats
Profile Joined August 2010
United States1472 Posts
December 19 2012 11:20 GMT
#1300
On December 19 2012 19:05 ShadowDrgn wrote:
Just wanted to bump this to say that they've been fixing things like crazy over the last two weeks. Memrise 1.0 is actually looking pretty good now. The old courses that were copied over from beta are still kind of wonky in some respects, but the new course creation options are so much more flexible than they used to be.



I agree with this I was quite worried for the new site but they are definitely making good progress on making it better.

I just wish the global leaderboard was back (unless I just can't find it) and not course specific.
Disciples of a god, that neither lives nor breathes.
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