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On August 23 2012 20:09 Toadesstern wrote:I started learning japanese like a week or two ago. Probably even a bit longer but I had some finals inbetween so it really seems to me like a lot shorter. But considering Kanji I've got to say that I honestly don't have a good idea how to properly learn them that fits me just yet. The thing on memrise is that they have a lot of different pronounciations and it's pretty confusing to get used to that because it's just so massive information overflow for me. I started out doing Kanji radicals, next thing was Kanji n5 and I can memorize how they look and I'd be able to translate them if someone would show them to me but I'd have no clue on how to pronounce them because that's just so much information to learn at the same time  So for the time being I'm sticking with a bunch of vocabulary instead. Trying to get that done and getting the corresponding Kanji on the fly. So I'm pretty much hoping that some things end up being at least from time to time self-explanatory once you get the vocabulary to back it up. But is it really necessary to memorize all the different pronounciations? For example I was told to pronounce hundred as ひゃく. Which shows up in the n5 kanji list as well but it also shows up as びゃく which I was told was an exception to the rule and it's used instead when you want to say 300 for example. If that's the case I'd rather just learn the "normal" thing and learn the exceptions in a second run to minimize the confusion right now :p Edit: Btw lol those starter Hira/Kata courses are dishing out points like candy.
Jeah you don't have to learn all readings, you can just learn one word (and one reading) at a time.
Learning 百 (ひゃく) 100 now and 三百 (さんびゃく) 300 later is totally fine.
Btw if you learned all kana in just 1-2 weeks you are pretty fast imo 
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On August 23 2012 21:25 Flip9 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 23 2012 20:09 Toadesstern wrote:I started learning japanese like a week or two ago. Probably even a bit longer but I had some finals inbetween so it really seems to me like a lot shorter. But considering Kanji I've got to say that I honestly don't have a good idea how to properly learn them that fits me just yet. The thing on memrise is that they have a lot of different pronounciations and it's pretty confusing to get used to that because it's just so massive information overflow for me. I started out doing Kanji radicals, next thing was Kanji n5 and I can memorize how they look and I'd be able to translate them if someone would show them to me but I'd have no clue on how to pronounce them because that's just so much information to learn at the same time So for the time being I'm sticking with a bunch of vocabulary instead. Trying to get that done and getting the corresponding Kanji on the fly. So I'm pretty much hoping that some things end up being at least from time to time self-explanatory once you get the vocabulary to back it up. But is it really necessary to memorize all the different pronounciations? For example I was told to pronounce hundred as ひゃく. Which shows up in the n5 kanji list as well but it also shows up as びゃく which I was told was an exception to the rule and it's used instead when you want to say 300 for example. If that's the case I'd rather just learn the "normal" thing and learn the exceptions in a second run to minimize the confusion right now :p Edit: Btw lol those starter Hira/Kata courses are dishing out points like candy. Jeah you don't have to learn all readings, you can just learn one word (and one reading) at a time. Learning 百 (ひゃく) 100 now and 三百 (さんびゃく) 300 later is totally fine. Btw if you learned all kana in just 1-2 weeks you are pretty fast imo
yeah figured. For now I'm just picking the first out of both on and kun and end up hoping they're the "normal" ones while doing the exceptions or different pronounciations group based. Like last week was numbers so I knew about ひゃく vs さんびゃく and about all (?) the other number based exceptions.
It's just still way to much information for me when looking at Kanji and trying to learn them on memrise. Yeah I can read Kana all right now but I'm sloooooow doing so and if there's 8 different options to pick from and every option has about 5 different pronounciations I'm just fucked :p
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On August 23 2012 21:47 Toadesstern wrote:Show nested quote +On August 23 2012 21:25 Flip9 wrote:On August 23 2012 20:09 Toadesstern wrote:I started learning japanese like a week or two ago. Probably even a bit longer but I had some finals inbetween so it really seems to me like a lot shorter. But considering Kanji I've got to say that I honestly don't have a good idea how to properly learn them that fits me just yet. The thing on memrise is that they have a lot of different pronounciations and it's pretty confusing to get used to that because it's just so massive information overflow for me. I started out doing Kanji radicals, next thing was Kanji n5 and I can memorize how they look and I'd be able to translate them if someone would show them to me but I'd have no clue on how to pronounce them because that's just so much information to learn at the same time So for the time being I'm sticking with a bunch of vocabulary instead. Trying to get that done and getting the corresponding Kanji on the fly. So I'm pretty much hoping that some things end up being at least from time to time self-explanatory once you get the vocabulary to back it up. But is it really necessary to memorize all the different pronounciations? For example I was told to pronounce hundred as ひゃく. Which shows up in the n5 kanji list as well but it also shows up as びゃく which I was told was an exception to the rule and it's used instead when you want to say 300 for example. If that's the case I'd rather just learn the "normal" thing and learn the exceptions in a second run to minimize the confusion right now :p Edit: Btw lol those starter Hira/Kata courses are dishing out points like candy. Jeah you don't have to learn all readings, you can just learn one word (and one reading) at a time. Learning 百 (ひゃく) 100 now and 三百 (さんびゃく) 300 later is totally fine. Btw if you learned all kana in just 1-2 weeks you are pretty fast imo yeah figured. For now I'm just picking the first out of both on and kun and end up hoping they're the "normal" ones while doing the exceptions or different pronounciations group based. Like last week was numbers so I knew about ひゃく vs さんびゃく and about all (?) the other number based exceptions. It's just still way to much information for me when looking at Kanji and trying to learn them on memrise. Yeah I can read Kana all right now but I'm sloooooow doing so and if there's 8 different options to pick from and every option has about 5 different pronounciations I'm just fucked :p
I don't know if memrise is that good, I haven't used it, I make my own flashcards, on paper.
I can give you some learning material if you want, I know some quite good books ^^
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Cool site, I registered and have began using the program. I recommend
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Germany2896 Posts
Memrise has separate topics for "words" and "kanjis".
If you learn "words" (and have the "Enable Kanji" option on), then it'll teach you the pronunciation of a word first, and once you know it well enough, it'll add the appropriate Kanji(s).
If you learn "kanjis", I recommend disabling the pronunciation option. I think learning readings in the context of words is a much better idea than memorizing all readings for a specific kanji.
(Unfortunately the two settings mentioned above are actually the same setting, so you'll need to change it each time you switch between kanji and word lessons)
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Thanks for the tip. I'll try that and from what you describe it's probably going to come in handy :p
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On August 23 2012 19:57 Zocat wrote:
Heisig has a lot of critics. And most of it is justified.
So before you use Heisig to learn kanji, read that criticism and evaluate for yourself if you want to learn what Heisig offers. There are (a lot) of cases where this is still the case, but Heisig has it's problems. You might be disappointed if you have wrong expectations ("you dont actually learn japanese").
http://japaneselevelup.com/ has a custom Heisig deck that removes some of the useless kanji, fixes problems, and adds more information. http://kanjidamage.com/ is a similar program and also removes useless kanji and provides more information than Heisig. I'm not a fan of the Heisig program as laid out (I actually own the books and tried them years ago), but otherwise what Tobberoth posted is spot on.
You can learn kanji like an alphabet, or just learn words and pick up the kanji as you go. There are pros and cons of both methods, but I think everyone can agree that learning kanji first is much harder. Alternatively, there's nothing stopping you from doing both methods in parallel. Learn 10 kanji from kanjidamage and 10 words on memrise every day, and in 5-6 months, you'll know all the useful kanji and be entirely through the N5 and N4 level vocabulary lists.
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On August 21 2012 14:53 Quesadilla wrote:Show nested quote +On August 21 2012 13:48 TheKwas wrote:If you're serious about learning and communicating in Korea, I would suggest actually just ordering a Korean keyboard online, or just making small notes on each key. I think remembering the string of english letters is counter-productive to actually learning the word and the Korean alphabet. At any rate, around 1000 words you should have a mental map of the koeran keyboard ingrained anyways. Relevant: http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=korean keyboard I know less than 1,000 words, never took Korean classes and learned the entire keyboard in about a month of fooling around upon learning the alphabet. It's way easier than you'd think just finding each character until you get it right.
yea, I spent 2 days and have the korean keyboard layout memorized, I'm fairly slow at it and still only know a few sounds, but I can associate the characters with their location on the keyboard quite easily, I just don't know what they sound like or mean...
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http://www.memrise.com/thread/1089046/
Memrise 1.0 will be launched at the end of September!
With a marketplace! I guess I will build some nice German - Spanish - English - Italian courses with my girlfriend.
This is my mempal list for this month so far, not even 100 entries. Tsk, tsk, tsk.
+ Show Spoiler +1stTL-TheUltimate350,647
2ndTL-ShadowDrgn267,717
3rdmierin267,063
4thTL-Rimstalker228,509
5thjamaar220,631
6thTL-Perfi216,513
7ththomas0806215,472
8thTL-SweetFaceCake215,096
9thTL_RedStar185,384
10thTL-Voidphase170,235
11thTL-njoobee162,644
12thjaehong140,227
13thTL-RobWalsh135,102
14thTL-Traceback129,346
15thTL-Quails125,384
16thTL-aQuaSC117,569
17thTL-Ios89,054
18thTL-StillRooney85,715
19thTL-legofranak78,213
20thSteven7774,792
21sttldead969,573
22ndWinner66,439
23rdTL-ZeroChrome65,738
24thTL-NotDeadJustSlob53,117
25thTL_FluXxxx52,666
26thThatHorse49,254
27thTL-rarkon48,885
28thTL-Toad41,307
29thTL-AntiPlaster40,353
30thTL-AtomCannister37,003
31stTL-drunkenJedi34,679
32ndTL-Cook34,536
33rdTL-solidbebe33,289
34thYouthSC28,977
35thTL_Jragon27,787
36thTL-CatInTheHat25,150
37thAtlasy24,633
38thTL-ZergZoul23,170
39thTL-yenticha22,803
40thmoni_tarc20,380
41stTL-Phenny19,434
42ndTL-Babyfactory18,504
43rdTL-NoodlesInSoup17,582
44tht-RavE13,456
45thbenwhately8,917
46thTL-Spangled8,104
47thTL-Phineas8,078
48thTL-Kralle7,178
49thTL-djinftw6,573
50thTL-Cramsy6,013
51stseifer5,980
52ndTL-CraZyWayne5,623
53rdTL-cantdance5,043
54thphacebook4,468
55thTLshoog3,833
56thTL-Luddff3,658
57thTL-Fusil1,900
58thTL-Talafar1,873
59thTL-x2mirko1,643
60thTL-Tanner1,212
61stTL-seenster820
62ndTL-InDaHouse540
63rdTL-Chuggles368
64thTLArnold225
65thTL-Cephiro200
66thTL-Acechi200
67thTL-mordek200
68thTL-Vandroy100
69thTLconTAgi0n100
70thTL-Clow100
71stTL-Tribu100
72ndTL-Killbydeath100
73rdTL-terranluser100
74thTL-Skygrinder100
75thTL-Latedi100
76thTL-HotShizz100
77thST-TL_BOMBER100
78thTL-jesushooves100
79thTL-wollhandkrabbe50
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On August 23 2012 21:25 Flip9 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 23 2012 20:09 Toadesstern wrote:I started learning japanese like a week or two ago. Probably even a bit longer but I had some finals inbetween so it really seems to me like a lot shorter. But considering Kanji I've got to say that I honestly don't have a good idea how to properly learn them that fits me just yet. The thing on memrise is that they have a lot of different pronounciations and it's pretty confusing to get used to that because it's just so massive information overflow for me. I started out doing Kanji radicals, next thing was Kanji n5 and I can memorize how they look and I'd be able to translate them if someone would show them to me but I'd have no clue on how to pronounce them because that's just so much information to learn at the same time So for the time being I'm sticking with a bunch of vocabulary instead. Trying to get that done and getting the corresponding Kanji on the fly. So I'm pretty much hoping that some things end up being at least from time to time self-explanatory once you get the vocabulary to back it up. But is it really necessary to memorize all the different pronounciations? For example I was told to pronounce hundred as ひゃく. Which shows up in the n5 kanji list as well but it also shows up as びゃく which I was told was an exception to the rule and it's used instead when you want to say 300 for example. If that's the case I'd rather just learn the "normal" thing and learn the exceptions in a second run to minimize the confusion right now :p Edit: Btw lol those starter Hira/Kata courses are dishing out points like candy. Jeah you don't have to learn all readings, you can just learn one word (and one reading) at a time. Learning 百 (ひゃく) 100 now and 三百 (さんびゃく) 300 later is totally fine. Btw if you learned all kana in just 1-2 weeks you are pretty fast imo
This. I would strongly recommend against learning all the readings for every kanji as you learn it. There are several reasons why:
1. It's far from useful, most kanji have several readings but only 1-2 common ones.
2. It's extremely hard to remember since you have no neural connections. There are some radicals which often give kanji the same on'yomi, but that's still not common enough, you'll more or less have to learn it with no decent mnemonics to help you, unlike when you actually know words using the kanji, since that gives you a good foundation for remembering the reading used.
3. It's boring and thus wastes your mental stamina. Learning words give you immediate value since you can use them, knowing the basic meaning of kanji helps when reading and of course knowing kanji is a must for writing... knowing all the readings, however, doesn't actually give you any benefit. One could make the case that since most kanji have few common readings, it's easier to guess how words are read (reading only the kanji, not knowing the word), but that's still guesswork which is obviously not enough, you will still need to look it up to be certain. Other than that though, when would you ever need to know how a kanji is read when you don't know any word using it?
So definitely stay away from learning readings separately unless you have a very good reason, put that focus on learning more words/kanji instead, and the readings will come automatically.
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Just joined memrise recently, thanks to this thread. My username is TL-aLv and I'm learning Spanish. Thanks for posting this! Memrise is an awesome tool to learn vocabulary and it's badass to see all the TL folks on the leaderboards
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I've decided to surprise my girlfriend by learning spanish.
Shhh... no one tell her. It's a secret ^^
TL-ghost
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On September 11 2012 23:14 ghost_403 wrote:
I've decided to surprise my girlfriend by learning spanish.
Shhh... no one tell her. It's a secret ^^
TL-ghost
A noble cause, good sir! Though you may find her to be the most valuable resource for learning later on.. Cause listening comprehension is fucking hard as shit in Spanish! lol
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I'm on Memrise as well. TL-jonsaboy =) learning japanese and might also use it to strenghen my german in the future.
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Monthly so far
+ Show Spoiler +
1stTL-Voidphase170,638
2ndTL-Babyfactory137,051
3rdTL-aLv117,407
4thmierin98,012
5thTL-ShadowDrgn88,667
6thWinner76,366
7ththomas080673,766
8thTL-Axieoqu68,455
9thTL-SweetFaceCake55,796
10thTL-Rimstalker55,262
11thTL-Toad53,334
12thTL-RobWalsh51,651
13thTL-Luddff50,024
14thjaehong36,972
15thTL-njoobee34,441
16thTL-Perfi33,944
17thTL-Ios30,670
18thTL-jonsaboy24,960
19thTL-StillRooney24,750
20thTL_RedStar24,665
21stTL-Quails22,930
22ndTL-NotDeadJustSlob19,575
23rdTL-TheUltimate15,745
24thTL-rarkon15,213
25thTL-ZeroChrome14,114
26thTL-Spangled12,141
27thphacebook9,864
28thTL-Traceback9,779
29thTL-aQuaSC8,908
30thTL-AtomCannister8,245
31stYouthSC8,141
32ndTL-legofranak7,397
33rdThatHorse6,216
34thTL-AntiPlaster5,460
35thSteven774,521
36thTL-solidbebe4,315
37thTL_Jragon3,993
38thseifer3,393
39thTL-NoodlesInSoup3,267
40thAtlasy3,023
41sttldead92,817
42ndt-RavE1,832
43rdTLshoog1,804
44thTL-Colour270
45thbenwhately100
46thTL-ghost70
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I joined a long time ago but forgot to post in this thread. Can't wait for Memrise 1.0 !
TL-MemenTo learning english(SAT Essential) and german.
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I have to say I'm actually enjoying using memrise. It seems to be a good mix between braindead easy and stop and use your head ^^
And now I've got 600+ points. TL-colout and benwhatley can suck it! 
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I just broke the top 100, thats like GM league right? Grandmaster of spanish vocab, suck on that, sc2 GMs.
PS: <3 memrise
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On September 12 2012 00:13 Voreau wrote:Show nested quote +On September 11 2012 23:14 ghost_403 wrote:
I've decided to surprise my girlfriend by learning spanish.
Shhh... no one tell her. It's a secret ^^
TL-ghost A noble cause, good sir! Though you may find her to be the most valuable resource for learning later on.. Cause listening comprehension is fucking hard as shit in Spanish! lol
Ya my sister got shocked when she didn't catch "¿Mira, tóqués?" as "Mira, esto qué es? haha they can really fly, especially impatient waiters.
Seeing you guys struggle to learn kanji makes me really glad I already know all of them from writing 100 words everyday when I was small hahaha. Would only need to learn the pronunciations. I suggest doing the same thing to remember it, writing it down repeatedly, and not just looking at a rough image of it, just like how typing a word is better for spelling.
Thank you makers of memrise once eagain!
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I am doing this thing under the name TL-BiDtH. I have just started and am doing Spanish. It is pretty fun so far.
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EPT
