I watched the video, but didn't read all 56 pages of responses, so here are a few of my thoughts:
The video was recorded by the girl, in anticipation of what was about to happen, as if it was instigated by the girl to elicit that response.
The video wasn't released until years after. If the girl thought it was child abuse and wanted it to stop badly enough, she would have gone to the authorities immediately. She sat on it and waited for her opportunity to exact revenge.
Before the end of the video, the girl was up and walking around without any indication of severe injury. It even seems like she had stopped crying already.
The title of the thread claims the reason for the beating is "for using the internet". It's an inflammatory title, as further checking indicates there was some potentially illegal activity involved, not just "using the internet".
It doesn't appear to me that the parents were beating her out of anger, but to discipline their daughter. It's safe to assume, that in any reasonable situation (not one staged by the daughter to elicit a response), the child would learn from that.
I'm not saying corporal punishment is the right way to do things, but it's ultimately up to the parents to discipline their children. This incident isn't child abuse.
On November 03 2011 06:15 Kaitlin wrote: I watched the video, but didn't read all 56 pages of responses, so here are a few of my thoughts:
The video was recorded by the girl, in anticipation of what was about to happen, as if it was instigated by the girl to elicit that response.
The video wasn't released until years after. If the girl thought it was child abuse and wanted it to stop badly enough, she would have gone to the authorities immediately. She sat on it and waited for her opportunity to exact revenge.
Before the end of the video, the girl was up and walking around without any indication of severe injury. It even seems like she had stopped crying already.
The title of the thread claims the reason for the beating is "for using the internet". It's an inflammatory title, as further checking indicates there was some potentially illegal activity involved, not just "using the internet".
It doesn't appear to me that the parents were beating her out of anger, but to discipline their daughter. It's safe to assume, that in any reasonable situation (not one staged by the daughter to elicit a response), the child would learn from that.
I'm not saying corporal punishment is the right way to do things, but it's ultimately up to the parents to discipline their children. This incident isn't child abuse.
I am pretty sure that the degree of force used by the parents would be considered child abuse in any context.
On November 03 2011 06:08 Raagruk wrote: beats daughter for using the internet, and thank to the efforts of the internet his life is going to be a shit hole. i love irony
Yeah the irony, he was a family law judge who presides over child abuse cases.
On November 03 2011 05:57 NFMachine wrote: Corporal punishment is not always a bad thing. I have seen many parents raise children with the self governed freedom and, at best, "reason" with them to behave; and see them turn out absolutely useless. And I am not saying either are right or wrong, I am just saying we cannot make blanket statements, every child is different. Even so, as with anything, punishment administered incorrectly teaches your children the wrong messages.
In this case, the father does not approve of the internet, specifically pirating, so he made a rule no pirating and moderate the internet usage. We really have no right to say this is a bad rule even though we may disagree with it; it is his life, his child. The child disobeyed, punishment follows. Even so, the real trouble here is the comments he makes to her as he is punishing her. There is definite evidence of abuse, especially mental / emotional, no question. However, you cannot use this as an example and broadly state all corporal punishment is wrong. Just as I cannot use what I am about to say to say corporal punishment is all right.
Now before your rage fully sets in, although I guess I should already assume you have hit reply to blindly yell at me or have dismissed this post completely:
As I child, if I disobeyed, a threat was given, then followed through with if I was persistent. I have been hit with belts, wooden spoons, swift kicks, etc. all in the rear end, never my identity (my face). My father and mother love me very much, and made sure I knew I was being punished for my actions. They would never say things like "what happened to you, you used to be good now you are horrible" or "I cannot believe I let you live in my house" And after the event they would always return and say "we love you very much, and it is our job to make sure you are responsible and productive, and your actions were neither" Just as a side bar, if I or my siblings ever said "I hate you", they would always respond with "good, I am not your friend, I am your parent, I am hear to help you grow not coddle you" That is a parent, in my opinion, obviously it was how I was raised.
And guess what, by the time I was 10+ years old it was no longer necessary to follow through, I knew the threat given was real, and was never hit, nor grounded because I knew what would happen so I was responsible. I also grew up to be a successful and talented engineer who knows how to make choices for myself, and has two very proud and loving parents. Same with my sister (doctor not engineer), although when she was young she would factor the punishment into her decision and would just accept the consequences if she really wanted to do whatever was forbidden. My youngest brother is the anomaly, he could not care less and just did whatever he wanted and then just tried to get away with it, hahaha. So again, wide variety of personalities need a wide variety of training techniques.
you're making some very wrong assumptions:
You equate lack of corporeal punishment with "self governed freedom" - it's not one or the other. You can be a just parent with consistent consequences for undesired behavior without resorting to inflicting physical pain or discomfort.
You're saying that you have seen "self governed" children turn out to be useless individuals (which is your point of view and might not be accurate) while equating their upbringing with how they are now supposedly useless. There are plenty of people who have experienced corporeal punishment who have turned out to be drug addicts, suicidal, depressed, violent, criminals etc, while you on the other hand turned out fine. So obviously there's more to this than whether or not they were physically punished as children
You're assuming that only the threat of physical punishment was what kept you in line by the time your were 10 without considering that other corrective measures could have had the same or better results (as studies have proven) or that by time you were 10, you had reached a cognitive level where you would no longer act out anyway, regardless of how you were punished as a younger child.
Even though corporeal punishment doesn't cause lasting damage - or major damage - in every individual, there have been hundreds of studies that have concluded that the risk of causing damage is very high. Even the physical discomfort caused during the act of disciplining is in my opinion immoral when there are other ways of dealing with the situation. Just the fact that you are unnecessarily physically attacking an individual who is not in a position to defend him or herself is sickening in my opinion.
It's really sad that people who have experienced physical punishment sometimes become advocates of that style of punishment. They're seeing their own "successful" upbringing (whether or not it is truly successful isn't always clear to the person themselves - Louie CK makes a great point about this in the video that has already been linked a couple times in this thread) as conclusive proof that it'll be successful for everyone, while ignoring that the risks associated with physical punishment far out weighs any of the supposed benefits. Especially when non-violet upbringing produces the same or better results.
On November 03 2011 06:15 Kaitlin wrote: I watched the video, but didn't read all 56 pages of responses, so here are a few of my thoughts:
The video was recorded by the girl, in anticipation of what was about to happen, as if it was instigated by the girl to elicit that response.
The video wasn't released until years after. If the girl thought it was child abuse and wanted it to stop badly enough, she would have gone to the authorities immediately. She sat on it and waited for her opportunity to exact revenge.
Before the end of the video, the girl was up and walking around without any indication of severe injury. It even seems like she had stopped crying already.
The title of the thread claims the reason for the beating is "for using the internet". It's an inflammatory title, as further checking indicates there was some potentially illegal activity involved, not just "using the internet".
It doesn't appear to me that the parents were beating her out of anger, but to discipline their daughter. It's safe to assume, that in any reasonable situation (not one staged by the daughter to elicit a response), the child would learn from that.
I'm not saying corporal punishment is the right way to do things, but it's ultimately up to the parents to discipline their children. This incident isn't child abuse.
She waited 7 years before releasing it, and she said in the youtube comments that she has a place of her own now, which I am assuming is why she released it now.
On November 03 2011 06:09 jinorazi wrote: at least he isn't hitting her with his fist, thats something i'd be furious about.
to be completely honest, this type of punishment is common, exception of her age, especially during my child hood.
it could have been a lot worse but i think most of you guys are over reacting to it, as if he actually fist punched her.
for example, i see nothing with the video below.
different reasons but same amount of anger i guess. uncle doesn't want this kid acting like a gangster while the judge wasn't her child exposed to the evils of the interwebz.
whats wrong and right aside, how they value the wrong-ness is the same.
i'm not saying its wrong or right, i just think the reaction is overboard because it certainly isn't enough for me to get angry, if he PUNCHED her, i would.
I fail to see the difference between using your fists and using a belt, or a spoon or any other object. The message is the same either way. And honestly, I think the outrage people are feeling from watching this video stems from the whole situation more than just the physical abuse. The fact that both parents are screaming at her, cursing at her and physically abusing her, all comes together in a pretty disgusting scene.
On November 03 2011 06:15 Kaitlin wrote: I watched the video, but didn't read all 56 pages of responses, so here are a few of my thoughts:
The video was recorded by the girl, in anticipation of what was about to happen, as if it was instigated by the girl to elicit that response.
The video wasn't released until years after. If the girl thought it was child abuse and wanted it to stop badly enough, she would have gone to the authorities immediately. She sat on it and waited for her opportunity to exact revenge.
Before the end of the video, the girl was up and walking around without any indication of severe injury. It even seems like she had stopped crying already.
The title of the thread claims the reason for the beating is "for using the internet". It's an inflammatory title, as further checking indicates there was some potentially illegal activity involved, not just "using the internet".
It doesn't appear to me that the parents were beating her out of anger, but to discipline their daughter. It's safe to assume, that in any reasonable situation (not one staged by the daughter to elicit a response), the child would learn from that.
I'm not saying corporal punishment is the right way to do things, but it's ultimately up to the parents to discipline their children. This incident isn't child abuse.
How simple everything is when you sit on your e-throne high up handing out Solomon's wisdom like you've seen it all.
Sometimes it isn't as easy as just getting your dad jailed and lose his job. Sometimes the things you experience make you hate your parent(s) enough to take revenge years later.
I grew up in a family obsessed with discipline. Sometimes the punishment is because of something I did and is justified. Other times I can feel the unbridled hatred as my dad took his anger on the world out on me. A 16 year old girl should also be able to distinguish between the two.
Sometimes you need to experience things in order to judge them, as terrible as they are.
On November 03 2011 06:11 br0fivE wrote: no big deal, i was disciplined same way, good old belt... or even sometimes the wooden spoon, though it wouldnt last as long as this video. 3-4 good smacks
Yeah same. I've been hit before, certainly not as savage or as long as this. I've had many a wooden spoon broken on my behind.
I think my parents stopped corporal punishment when I was about 11 or 12, when them being disappointed in me or grounded was way worse than being hit a few times. Once your kids get to her age though there are better ways to discipline your kids - It either doesn't hurt them or you have to beat them way top hard to be considered "normal or safe". Ironic.
On November 03 2011 06:11 AutomatonOmega wrote: There's a fine line between properly executed corporal punishment though, and a parent exacting revenge on their child through violent means. Be mindful of the difference. What I've experienced, and what's displayed in that video, are the latter.
In fact, I'm not even sure the former even exists.
Edit: Spoiler tags on the wall 'o' text.
Edit again: Suppose however that the child has ADHD, Asperger's Syndrome, or something. Corporal Punishment simply can't be assumed to work under those conditions, the kid's capacity to learn from it is diminished by their condition.
I agree there is a gray area, and that there are clear instances of abuse, and clear instances proper parenting. I guess that was the TL:DR of my post. Even so, if we outlawed everything with a gray area, or everything abused by some, which unfortunately is something we do, we would not have much left, and the people that could benefit from it are missing out.
I am sympathetic to you experiencing the latter, but I am an example of the former. My sibling is an example of someone brought up in a household that employed the proper use, my opinion of course, of corporal punishment, and still turned out to be an irresponsible adult. So there you go, we have so many different types, you cannot do studies and say this one way is completely wrong and this one way is completely right.
Finally, I completely agree, a special needs child is not going to be one of those to benefit from this paradigm.
When i grew up, I had plenty of friends who were subject to punishment with a belt. They all seem fine today. Video is still disgusting though, and I think the line was definitely crossed there.
On November 03 2011 06:15 Kaitlin wrote: I watched the video, but didn't read all 56 pages of responses, so here are a few of my thoughts:
The video was recorded by the girl, in anticipation of what was about to happen, as if it was instigated by the girl to elicit that response.
The video wasn't released until years after. If the girl thought it was child abuse and wanted it to stop badly enough, she would have gone to the authorities immediately. She sat on it and waited for her opportunity to exact revenge.
Before the end of the video, the girl was up and walking around without any indication of severe injury. It even seems like she had stopped crying already.
The title of the thread claims the reason for the beating is "for using the internet". It's an inflammatory title, as further checking indicates there was some potentially illegal activity involved, not just "using the internet".
It doesn't appear to me that the parents were beating her out of anger, but to discipline their daughter. It's safe to assume, that in any reasonable situation (not one staged by the daughter to elicit a response), the child would learn from that.
I'm not saying corporal punishment is the right way to do things, but it's ultimately up to the parents to discipline their children. This incident isn't child abuse.
...the fuck is wrong with you? You say that it is up to the parents to descipline their children and that what we see in the video isn't child abuse. If you really think that you are almost as bad a person as the guy in the video. There is never a situation where stuff like this is justified. Never.
You are a bad excuse for a human being for thinking otherwise. Fuck you.
different reasons but same amount of anger i guess. uncle doesn't want this kid acting like a gangster while the judge wasn't her child exposed to the evils of the interwebz.
whats wrong and right aside, how they value the wrong-ness is the same.
i'm not saying its wrong or right, i just think the reaction is overboard because it certainly isn't enough for me to get angry, if he PUNCHED her, i would.
I fail to see the difference between using your fists and using a belt, or a spoon or any other object. The message is the same either way. And honestly, I think the outrage people are feeling from watching this video stems from the whole situation more than just the physical abuse. The fact that both parents are screaming at her, cursing at her and physically abusing her, all comes together in a pretty disgusting scene.
i'd say there's a big difference between a fist and a belt. kind of like either saluting to your superior officer or hand slapping him fresh prince style, or punching out of anger or bitch slapping out of pity. hard to explain but my emotion will react very differently if it was his fist, not his belt, and i'd assume others might feel similar way. i dont take punching lightly, its done to cause damage, not discipline.
as for child abuse issue, if this was once in a while, pissing off your parents soooo fucking much you deserve it type of deal, i can let it pass but if this was repeated, over silly issues, it is definitely wrong.
I was beat the same way, but with long sticks (like meter sticks) instead, by my asian parents. I don't forgive them, and to this day, I resent them for their overreactions and unfairness, and avoid them as best I can. If I ever have children, I aim to end the cycle. So just a warning to those who think this degree of punishment is okay, your child may hate you forever if you do this to them.
On November 03 2011 06:15 Kaitlin wrote: I watched the video, but didn't read all 56 pages of responses, so here are a few of my thoughts:
The video was recorded by the girl, in anticipation of what was about to happen, as if it was instigated by the girl to elicit that response.
The video wasn't released until years after. If the girl thought it was child abuse and wanted it to stop badly enough, she would have gone to the authorities immediately. She sat on it and waited for her opportunity to exact revenge.
Before the end of the video, the girl was up and walking around without any indication of severe injury. It even seems like she had stopped crying already.
The title of the thread claims the reason for the beating is "for using the internet". It's an inflammatory title, as further checking indicates there was some potentially illegal activity involved, not just "using the internet".
It doesn't appear to me that the parents were beating her out of anger, but to discipline their daughter. It's safe to assume, that in any reasonable situation (not one staged by the daughter to elicit a response), the child would learn from that.
I'm not saying corporal punishment is the right way to do things, but it's ultimately up to the parents to discipline their children. This incident isn't child abuse.
How is this not fucking child abuse? Please explain it to me. Yeah it is the parents job to discipline their child but there is something called boundaries and the fact that you don't think this is child abuse and over the line just baffles me.
On November 03 2011 06:41 julianto wrote: I was beat the same way, but with long sticks (like meter sticks) instead, by my asian parents. I don't forgive them, and to this day, I resent them for their overreactions and unfairness, and avoid them as best I can. If I ever have children, I aim to end the cycle. So just a warning to those who think this degree of punishment is okay, your child may hate you forever if you do this to them.
Well said man. My father also was hit a lot as well as his brothers. My father could have either continued the "chain" or be the way he is now and be a human being. I thank him greatly for this. FUCK anyone who says it's ok to beat on a child.
On November 03 2011 06:41 julianto wrote: I was beat the same way, but with long sticks (like meter sticks) instead, by my asian parents. I don't forgive them, and to this day, I resent them for their overreactions and unfairness, and avoid them as best I can. If I ever have children, I aim to end the cycle. So just a warning to those who think this degree of punishment is okay, your child may hate you forever if you do this to them.
Parent =/= friend. Good parents realize this. Also, I suspect what you experienced (the Asian way) was worse than this, and I don't think it's coincidence that the Asian culture is very respectful, much moreso than ours, at least (American).
I watched the video. While I was watching it, I thought it was horrible. I wanted to beat the shit out of the dad for doing that. But then I remembered Russel Peters routine on beating your child, then thought... I guess I find this video really disturbing because it's a white family, but having first generation immigrant parents, I realized I got the same treatment as a kid and my older brother got it even worse than me. All my second generation immigrant friends (like me) grew up being beat up with brooms or wooden sticks because we got B+'s in our report card or because we missed a note while playing piano.
I'm not saying what the dad is doing is right, and I KNOW I will never do that to my kids, but I just wanted to say that maybe some of you shouldn't be so shocked after seeing this video. Anyways, Russel Peters routine explains it really really well in a lighthearted way in his routine.
EPT
