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On October 17 2011 20:41 DarQraven wrote:Show nested quote +On October 17 2011 20:20 TheGiftedApe wrote:On October 17 2011 20:13 DarQraven wrote:On October 17 2011 20:05 TheGiftedApe wrote:On October 17 2011 19:57 DarQraven wrote:On October 17 2011 19:49 TheGiftedApe wrote:On October 17 2011 19:25 DarQraven wrote:
For me it comes down to not really respecting someone's personality/mind when they feel a need to take mind-alterating substances on a regular basis to be able to enjoy themselves or feel worthwhile.
Now don't come at me with the weak-ass "everything is a mind-alterating substance" BS; sugar, caffeine and vitamins aren't even remotely close to the effects of alcohol, thc and other drugs.
Let me ask you, what is the concensus about people who drink every single day, and up to a point where they won't be all 'there' anymore? Not just one glass of wine or something, think along the lines of 4+ beers every day (since that's around the same level of fucked-upness that marijuana tends to give you, at least for me)?
You'd label those people alcoholics, don't lie. You'd say they have a drinking problem. You would say they are probably having issues of some sort.
Then why should I be completely fine with people who are stoned every day, most of the day?
You underestimate the power of caffeine and synthesized legal stimulants, Go to the local Market and drink a couple of "High Power Energy Voltage Red bull Crack in a can" drinks and tell me you don't get the shakes. I'm no doctor, but I'd be willing to guess that whatever is making my body uncontrollably shake for up too an hour is just as harmful as any weed or alcohol abuse, Long and short term. And to your other point, Are you blaming alcohol/drugs, as to why people are having issues/problems in their life or is the drug just a crutch/symptom of a bigger emotional issue? Maybe there are some cases, but I find it hard to believe that someone who is abusing a drug, their only problem is the abuse of the drug and that is why they are depressed/have issues. You seem to have misread this. sugar, caffeine and vitamins aren't even remotely close to the effects of alcohol, thc and other drugs Yes, you get shaky when you take massive amounts of caffeine. Do you start babbling nonsense, though? Do you possibly turn all introverted and trip out, or go off on a longwinded tangent about snail decoration? I said those substances aren't even close to typical drugs in their effect, not that they don't have an effect. For hell's sake, you could probably eat a few cups of sugar and you'd have shaky hands and a massive energy boost as well. It wouldn't change your personality, though. Drugs do. They simply have a whole different range of effects on people, effects that change how they behave, respond, think. Even if they respond or think much at all. They can change your perception time and space. They can make you see shit that simply isn't there. The most introverted guy in the world can suddenly go off blabbering on and on to complete strangers. They can make you "see clearly" (read: disable/reduce critical thought). When's the last time you hallucinated because of 5 cups of coffee? I once again disagree, You've never shown up to work or school and been next too the person who has had 1 too many cups of coffee and is Unable to stop talking for 2 hours straight, constantly pestering about something which you would never ordinarily talk about. Although they would usually be silent or "introverted" as you would put it without the coffee. I've never hallucinated from drinking coffee or eating sugar, but I've never hallucinated from drinking alcohol either or smoking weed. Caffiene likewise can "change your perception of time and space" just in the other direction, 1 minute can feel like an hour etc. In freaking massive amounts, yes. Think along the lines of 2-3 jars in the span of an hour, and not that watery stuff Starbucks calls coffee either. 99.99% Of people will not ever drink that much, because they're not drinking coffee with the sole intent of becoming ADHD as fuck. With drugs you do. You only take drugs to become different - that's a philosophical difference if anything, and quite an important one as well. That said, I get the feeling you're just coming up with stuff just to try to make a point. No, I have *never* had my perception of time changed the way it did by using marijuana, by anything else. Not by having fun, studying, caffeine, sugar, alcohol, etc or a combination of any of those. I spent an 'hour' lost in my own room trying to find my bag, which turned out to be exactly 1 minute when I came back to the clock in the kitchen. That shit just doesn't happen with any 'regular' substance, no matter how much you take. Similarly, I have never seen a shy guy suddenly want to hug strangers because he's had sugar. That aside, why are we narrowing this discussion down to marijuana all of a sudden? No, weed won't make you hallucinate. LSD will. Shrooms will. As far as I'm aware, those qualify as drugs as well and their effects blow caffeine or sugar, even in massive amounts, clear out of the water. You said "Now don't come at me with the weak-ass "everything is a mind-alterating substance" BS; sugar, caffeine and vitamins aren't even remotely close to the effects of alcohol, thc and other drugs." And I am trying to relate caffeine to alcohol and marijuana if consumed in equal quantities/abused. You might not abuse caffeine but there are plenty of people who have 3-4 cups of strong coffee before noon. These people are drinking the coffee to "become different" just because caffeine Get's you going, and Alcohol slows you down doesn't mean one is worse than the other. As for the other more hardcore drugs that actually make you hallucinate, lsd ecstacy shrooms etc, there is no relation and i would not try to make one. I said that, and I never contradicted that or abandoned that position. None of those substances are capable of doing to you what more serious drugs can, no matter the amounts involved. Read my previous post again. You still seem to be under the assumption that I'm saying that common chemicals have *no effect*. They do. Just not an effect that's even in the same league as your typical party drug or hallucinogen, or just weed for that matter. It doesn't matter how much coffee you drink or how much it gets you going, you will still be the same person, just more awake, more energy or at least the experience thereof. A high dose of certain vitamins can make you very aware, concentrated. Sugar gives you a bit of a rush, then a low after that. That is not remotely the same as the effects of, let's say, LSD, where you'll be tripping balls for a good hour or 10 and will be barely recognizable, personality wise, to sober people. I don't see how you've presented any arguments to the contrary, or what you're even trying to argue anymore. If what you said was true, how come we don't have people overdosing on caffeine at raves instead of the more costly and illegal drugs?
I am not talking about sugar or any of the hard drugs you are talking about. I am ONLY talking about Caffeine, Marijuana, and Alcohol, and their similarities. I've already stated my opinion on the others on page 14.
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I think it depends on the context of the drug use. I know numerous successful and intelligent people (I'm a medical student) who use all manner of drugs for recreational purposes. It does not impact negatively upon their lives, they maintain their work and social responsibilities perfectly fine.
In majority of cases though I think drug use does have negative impact on a person's ability to function, so generally I would think less of some one who uses drugs.
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On October 17 2011 20:47 TheGiftedApe wrote:Show nested quote +On October 17 2011 20:41 DarQraven wrote:On October 17 2011 20:20 TheGiftedApe wrote:On October 17 2011 20:13 DarQraven wrote:On October 17 2011 20:05 TheGiftedApe wrote:On October 17 2011 19:57 DarQraven wrote:On October 17 2011 19:49 TheGiftedApe wrote:On October 17 2011 19:25 DarQraven wrote:
For me it comes down to not really respecting someone's personality/mind when they feel a need to take mind-alterating substances on a regular basis to be able to enjoy themselves or feel worthwhile.
Now don't come at me with the weak-ass "everything is a mind-alterating substance" BS; sugar, caffeine and vitamins aren't even remotely close to the effects of alcohol, thc and other drugs.
Let me ask you, what is the concensus about people who drink every single day, and up to a point where they won't be all 'there' anymore? Not just one glass of wine or something, think along the lines of 4+ beers every day (since that's around the same level of fucked-upness that marijuana tends to give you, at least for me)?
You'd label those people alcoholics, don't lie. You'd say they have a drinking problem. You would say they are probably having issues of some sort.
Then why should I be completely fine with people who are stoned every day, most of the day?
You underestimate the power of caffeine and synthesized legal stimulants, Go to the local Market and drink a couple of "High Power Energy Voltage Red bull Crack in a can" drinks and tell me you don't get the shakes. I'm no doctor, but I'd be willing to guess that whatever is making my body uncontrollably shake for up too an hour is just as harmful as any weed or alcohol abuse, Long and short term. And to your other point, Are you blaming alcohol/drugs, as to why people are having issues/problems in their life or is the drug just a crutch/symptom of a bigger emotional issue? Maybe there are some cases, but I find it hard to believe that someone who is abusing a drug, their only problem is the abuse of the drug and that is why they are depressed/have issues. You seem to have misread this. sugar, caffeine and vitamins aren't even remotely close to the effects of alcohol, thc and other drugs Yes, you get shaky when you take massive amounts of caffeine. Do you start babbling nonsense, though? Do you possibly turn all introverted and trip out, or go off on a longwinded tangent about snail decoration? I said those substances aren't even close to typical drugs in their effect, not that they don't have an effect. For hell's sake, you could probably eat a few cups of sugar and you'd have shaky hands and a massive energy boost as well. It wouldn't change your personality, though. Drugs do. They simply have a whole different range of effects on people, effects that change how they behave, respond, think. Even if they respond or think much at all. They can change your perception time and space. They can make you see shit that simply isn't there. The most introverted guy in the world can suddenly go off blabbering on and on to complete strangers. They can make you "see clearly" (read: disable/reduce critical thought). When's the last time you hallucinated because of 5 cups of coffee? I once again disagree, You've never shown up to work or school and been next too the person who has had 1 too many cups of coffee and is Unable to stop talking for 2 hours straight, constantly pestering about something which you would never ordinarily talk about. Although they would usually be silent or "introverted" as you would put it without the coffee. I've never hallucinated from drinking coffee or eating sugar, but I've never hallucinated from drinking alcohol either or smoking weed. Caffiene likewise can "change your perception of time and space" just in the other direction, 1 minute can feel like an hour etc. In freaking massive amounts, yes. Think along the lines of 2-3 jars in the span of an hour, and not that watery stuff Starbucks calls coffee either. 99.99% Of people will not ever drink that much, because they're not drinking coffee with the sole intent of becoming ADHD as fuck. With drugs you do. You only take drugs to become different - that's a philosophical difference if anything, and quite an important one as well. That said, I get the feeling you're just coming up with stuff just to try to make a point. No, I have *never* had my perception of time changed the way it did by using marijuana, by anything else. Not by having fun, studying, caffeine, sugar, alcohol, etc or a combination of any of those. I spent an 'hour' lost in my own room trying to find my bag, which turned out to be exactly 1 minute when I came back to the clock in the kitchen. That shit just doesn't happen with any 'regular' substance, no matter how much you take. Similarly, I have never seen a shy guy suddenly want to hug strangers because he's had sugar. That aside, why are we narrowing this discussion down to marijuana all of a sudden? No, weed won't make you hallucinate. LSD will. Shrooms will. As far as I'm aware, those qualify as drugs as well and their effects blow caffeine or sugar, even in massive amounts, clear out of the water. You said "Now don't come at me with the weak-ass "everything is a mind-alterating substance" BS; sugar, caffeine and vitamins aren't even remotely close to the effects of alcohol, thc and other drugs." And I am trying to relate caffeine to alcohol and marijuana if consumed in equal quantities/abused. You might not abuse caffeine but there are plenty of people who have 3-4 cups of strong coffee before noon. These people are drinking the coffee to "become different" just because caffeine Get's you going, and Alcohol slows you down doesn't mean one is worse than the other. As for the other more hardcore drugs that actually make you hallucinate, lsd ecstacy shrooms etc, there is no relation and i would not try to make one. I said that, and I never contradicted that or abandoned that position. None of those substances are capable of doing to you what more serious drugs can, no matter the amounts involved. Read my previous post again. You still seem to be under the assumption that I'm saying that common chemicals have *no effect*. They do. Just not an effect that's even in the same league as your typical party drug or hallucinogen, or just weed for that matter. It doesn't matter how much coffee you drink or how much it gets you going, you will still be the same person, just more awake, more energy or at least the experience thereof. A high dose of certain vitamins can make you very aware, concentrated. Sugar gives you a bit of a rush, then a low after that. That is not remotely the same as the effects of, let's say, LSD, where you'll be tripping balls for a good hour or 10 and will be barely recognizable, personality wise, to sober people. I don't see how you've presented any arguments to the contrary, or what you're even trying to argue anymore. If what you said was true, how come we don't have people overdosing on caffeine at raves instead of the more costly and illegal drugs? I am not talking about sugar or any of the hard drugs you are talking about. I am ONLY talking about Caffeine, Marijuana, and Alcohol, and their similarities. I've already stated my opinion on the others on page 14.
Then your post is pointless since I AM talking about those.
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Is prejudice against sex offenders wrong?
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On October 17 2011 20:49 LilClinkin wrote:
I think it depends on the context of the drug use. I know numerous successful and intelligent people (I'm a medical student) who use all manner of drugs for recreational purposes. It does not impact negatively upon their lives, they maintain their work and social responsibilities perfectly fine.
In majority of cases though I think drug use does have negative impact on a person's ability to function, so generally I would think less of some one who uses drugs.
I sure as damn hell don't want a medical "professional" to see me if he uses drugs.
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It depends. I work part-time in a chemist while Im at Uni, and Ive seen first hand how addiction to heroin is literally ruining people's lives - its a health issue, they want to get off, they want to be free from the addiction, but they literally cannot due to its effects. You should not be prejudice against these people
In my opinion there should only be prejudice when people use drugs so much that it begins to negatively affect other people, whilst at the same time they take no action, or try anything at all, to address their drug problem.
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I'm absolutely prejudiced against people who take drugs, including family members.
I have a family member who smokes weed like 5 times a day at least. Even admits that it doesn't get him high anymore. That's just fucking stupid. He does well for himself overall but he's still low on money because of it. He would live very comfortably without this shit. I have a few other family members that did harder drugs and went to raves, etc. A bunch of low life idiots that deserve all the crap they get now and all of them live shitty lives as well as being unable to cope with life without substances (and even there); no exceptions. They won't get pity from me, they chose their own actions.
I know they are not all terrible people but it's still one of the dumbest thing you can do IMO and I don't plan to ever change my views on that. People can call me what they want but at least I stick to my morals. I don't need to use mind-altering substances to live my life (including alcohol which I've eliminated from my life since I had no use for it; and no I've never smoked).
I don't get in their face and tell them they're stupid if people tell me they take drugs. Not that I don't think it, but I know so many people do it I just need to shut up since it does me no good to mention it. I just tend to avoid seeing them again.
There are plenty of good and fun people out there that don't use drugs. I'll take my chances with one of them over someone that constantly breaks the laws. It's my experience that people who take drugs tend to be shittier people with shady ways that I wouldn't trust with any task. It's not a rule or anything, just life around me.
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On October 17 2011 11:34 Antoine wrote:
people don't choose to be black or female.
they choose to use drugs/smoke/drink etc
this is the critical difference.
to address your above post, at some point the person made the choice to start.
word.
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On October 17 2011 20:53 PolSC2 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 17 2011 20:49 LilClinkin wrote:
I think it depends on the context of the drug use. I know numerous successful and intelligent people (I'm a medical student) who use all manner of drugs for recreational purposes. It does not impact negatively upon their lives, they maintain their work and social responsibilities perfectly fine.
In majority of cases though I think drug use does have negative impact on a person's ability to function, so generally I would think less of some one who uses drugs. I sure as damn hell don't want a medical "professional" to see me if he uses drugs.
Why? If they use a drug with a short half-life on a friday night at the beginning of their weekend, and then see you when you're unwell on Monday (ie. drug is clearly out of their system), how are they any different from a medical professional who doesn't use drugs at all?
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ofc prejudice is wrong.and most people here would be damn surprised how many have expirience with drugs (outside of alc,caffeine etc). if you walk through a city you will pass hundreds drug users and outside of the super drunk guy and occasional red eyes you wont suspect anything at all.
in the end its sad that people still judge others so much, esp since most of those people know almost nothing about those substances other then "drugs are bad mmkay".
1) Drug users of any type economically support mafia and other criminal organization which hold the monopoly of drug market, exploiting poor people in third/second world country.
if you are against funding drug dealers then you gotta be for legalization of most drugs. a legal controlled market would cost illegal parties billions ,bring a similar amount into government pockets and make it far easier to regulate while also creating jobs.
also what you call "exploiting poor people" is the job that feeds their family. and feeds the family better then most other jobs in those regions. just sayin.
On October 17 2011 20:51 PolSC2 wrote:
Is prejudice against sex offenders wrong?
oh nice so people that take some happy time with friends using substances you dont know/like = rapists? sure makes muuuch sense buddy
On October 17 2011 20:53 PolSC2 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 17 2011 20:49 LilClinkin wrote:
I think it depends on the context of the drug use. I know numerous successful and intelligent people (I'm a medical student) who use all manner of drugs for recreational purposes. It does not impact negatively upon their lives, they maintain their work and social responsibilities perfectly fine.
In majority of cases though I think drug use does have negative impact on a person's ability to function, so generally I would think less of some one who uses drugs. I sure as damn hell don't want a medical "professional" to see me if he uses drugs.
and yet there is a very decent chance that this already happened. and you didnt notice. and maybe thought "hey that was a nice doc". :>
On October 17 2011 20:55 nick1689 wrote:
It depends. I work part-time in a chemist while Im at Uni, and Ive seen first hand how addiction to heroin is literally ruining people's lives - its a health issue, they want to get off, they want to be free from the addiction, but they literally cannot due to its effects. You should not be prejudice against these people
In my opinion there should only be prejudice when people use drugs so much that it begins to negatively affect other people, whilst at the same time they take no action, or try anything at all, to address their drug problem.
no question.heroin is the devil. but thats one of the problems with people throwing all drugs together into one big pot. i doubt many would argue against herion,crack and the likes quickly destryoing the lifes of anyone who touches it with almost no exceptions.
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On October 17 2011 20:53 PolSC2 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 17 2011 20:49 LilClinkin wrote:
I think it depends on the context of the drug use. I know numerous successful and intelligent people (I'm a medical student) who use all manner of drugs for recreational purposes. It does not impact negatively upon their lives, they maintain their work and social responsibilities perfectly fine.
In majority of cases though I think drug use does have negative impact on a person's ability to function, so generally I would think less of some one who uses drugs. I sure as damn hell don't want a medical "professional" to see me if he uses drugs.
You wouldn't let Dr. House see you??
It all depends on what kind of drugs the person is using. Yes im gonna have prejudice against people who smoke meth or crack because there is a good chance they are insane, but I find that I like people who smoke pot more than most. I don't mind the airhead potheads just cuz they can funny to chill with but the straight up chill pot smokers who don't act like their life revolves around chronic and aren't all hippied or burned out are usually the best peeps to hang with they don't take everything so seriously they are very easy going, interesting, and liberal and not so wound up or naive and ignorant as the average person who is totally against all drugs.
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On October 17 2011 20:59 BeMannerDuPenner wrote:ofc prejudice is wrong.and most people here would be damn surprised how many have expirience with drugs (outside of alc,caffeine etc). if you walk through a city you will pass hundreds drug users and outside of the super drunk guy and occasional red eyes you wont suspect anything at all. in the end its sad that people still judge others so much, esp since most of those people know almost nothing about those substances other then "drugs are bad mmkay". Show nested quote +
1) Drug users of any type economically support mafia and other criminal organization which hold the monopoly of drug market, exploiting poor people in third/second world country.
if you are against funding drug dealers then you gotta be for legalization of most drugs. a legal controlled market would cost illegal parties billions ,bring a similar amount into government pockets and make it far easier to regulate while also creating jobs. also what you call "exploiting poor people" is the job that feeds their family. and feeds the family better then most other jobs in those regions. just sayin. Show nested quote +On October 17 2011 20:51 PolSC2 wrote:
Is prejudice against sex offenders wrong? oh nice so people that take some happy time with friends using substances you dont know/like = rapists? sure makes muuuch sense buddy Show nested quote +On October 17 2011 20:53 PolSC2 wrote:On October 17 2011 20:49 LilClinkin wrote:
I think it depends on the context of the drug use. I know numerous successful and intelligent people (I'm a medical student) who use all manner of drugs for recreational purposes. It does not impact negatively upon their lives, they maintain their work and social responsibilities perfectly fine.
In majority of cases though I think drug use does have negative impact on a person's ability to function, so generally I would think less of some one who uses drugs. I sure as damn hell don't want a medical "professional" to see me if he uses drugs. and yet there is a very decent chance that this already happened. and you didnt notice. and maybe thought "hey that was a nice doc". :>
Our differences of opinion obviously stem from where we were brought up. I live in the USA, where most drugs are illegal. I don't want any help from a doctor who chooses to break the law. Sorry.
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Can someone please define what does drug means in this thread ?
EDIT : forget it, I guess everyone has his own definition and this why this discussion will never reach any logical conclusions
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It is a person's choice to do drugs, but discriminating against them for it, while not prejudice, is overly judgemental. Many drugs are more than acceptable to use. If I take an aspirin or drink a beer, no one blinks an eye. I have a Caffeine addiction, but society doesn't punish me for it (I definately get withdrawal if i don't have caffeine). The issue is that "drugs" is a very broad term. If you want to judge someone for using drugs, then you have to consider all the factors. If you feel uncomfortable solely because they use drugs and consider nothing else, that is discriminatory and judgemental, even though it is not technically prejudice.
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On October 17 2011 21:05 PolSC2 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 17 2011 20:59 BeMannerDuPenner wrote:ofc prejudice is wrong.and most people here would be damn surprised how many have expirience with drugs (outside of alc,caffeine etc). if you walk through a city you will pass hundreds drug users and outside of the super drunk guy and occasional red eyes you wont suspect anything at all. in the end its sad that people still judge others so much, esp since most of those people know almost nothing about those substances other then "drugs are bad mmkay".
1) Drug users of any type economically support mafia and other criminal organization which hold the monopoly of drug market, exploiting poor people in third/second world country.
if you are against funding drug dealers then you gotta be for legalization of most drugs. a legal controlled market would cost illegal parties billions ,bring a similar amount into government pockets and make it far easier to regulate while also creating jobs. also what you call "exploiting poor people" is the job that feeds their family. and feeds the family better then most other jobs in those regions. just sayin. On October 17 2011 20:51 PolSC2 wrote:
Is prejudice against sex offenders wrong? oh nice so people that take some happy time with friends using substances you dont know/like = rapists? sure makes muuuch sense buddy On October 17 2011 20:53 PolSC2 wrote:On October 17 2011 20:49 LilClinkin wrote:
I think it depends on the context of the drug use. I know numerous successful and intelligent people (I'm a medical student) who use all manner of drugs for recreational purposes. It does not impact negatively upon their lives, they maintain their work and social responsibilities perfectly fine.
In majority of cases though I think drug use does have negative impact on a person's ability to function, so generally I would think less of some one who uses drugs. I sure as damn hell don't want a medical "professional" to see me if he uses drugs. and yet there is a very decent chance that this already happened. and you didnt notice. and maybe thought "hey that was a nice doc". :> Our differences of opinion obviously stem from where we were brought up. I live in the USA, where most drugs are illegal. I don't want any help from a doctor who chooses to break the law. Sorry.
same here in germany... infact your marihuana laws often are way less strict then ours.
also are you saying that your opinion is just that way cause of the laws?
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I just have to say I am constantly amazed by the amount of prudishness and conformism I read on TL. Like, most of you guys are probably teenagers or in your early twenties... and you actually despise people for "breaking the law"?
Back when I was a young nerd breaking the law was the right thing to do. If kids don't stand up against the establishment who else will? I really hope you guys aren't the voice of your generation or the future looks rather bleak 
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On October 17 2011 21:05 Diks wrote:
Can someone please define what does drug means in this thread ?
EDIT : forget it, I guess everyone has his own definition and this why this discussion will never reach any logical conclusions
Lol drug means anything you use to get fucked up. We are not talking about the someone who is sick using drugs prescribed to them, although I'll admit I can't stand those bastards.
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On October 17 2011 21:05 PolSC2 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 17 2011 20:59 BeMannerDuPenner wrote:ofc prejudice is wrong.and most people here would be damn surprised how many have expirience with drugs (outside of alc,caffeine etc). if you walk through a city you will pass hundreds drug users and outside of the super drunk guy and occasional red eyes you wont suspect anything at all. in the end its sad that people still judge others so much, esp since most of those people know almost nothing about those substances other then "drugs are bad mmkay".
1) Drug users of any type economically support mafia and other criminal organization which hold the monopoly of drug market, exploiting poor people in third/second world country.
if you are against funding drug dealers then you gotta be for legalization of most drugs. a legal controlled market would cost illegal parties billions ,bring a similar amount into government pockets and make it far easier to regulate while also creating jobs. also what you call "exploiting poor people" is the job that feeds their family. and feeds the family better then most other jobs in those regions. just sayin. On October 17 2011 20:51 PolSC2 wrote:
Is prejudice against sex offenders wrong? oh nice so people that take some happy time with friends using substances you dont know/like = rapists? sure makes muuuch sense buddy On October 17 2011 20:53 PolSC2 wrote:On October 17 2011 20:49 LilClinkin wrote:
I think it depends on the context of the drug use. I know numerous successful and intelligent people (I'm a medical student) who use all manner of drugs for recreational purposes. It does not impact negatively upon their lives, they maintain their work and social responsibilities perfectly fine.
In majority of cases though I think drug use does have negative impact on a person's ability to function, so generally I would think less of some one who uses drugs. I sure as damn hell don't want a medical "professional" to see me if he uses drugs. and yet there is a very decent chance that this already happened. and you didnt notice. and maybe thought "hey that was a nice doc". :> Our differences of opinion obviously stem from where we were brought up. I live in the USA, where most drugs are illegal. I don't want any help from a doctor who chooses to break the law. Sorry.
lol, enjoy living your life with opinions shaped by the law.
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On October 17 2011 20:59 BeMannerDuPenner wrote:Show nested quote +On October 17 2011 20:51 PolSC2 wrote:
Is prejudice against sex offenders wrong? oh nice so people that take some happy time with friends using substances you dont know/like = rapists? sure makes muuuch sense buddy
They didn't say that it is directly equal to being a rapist, they gave an example of where someone's decision making process which may have nothing to do with how you know them can result in a negatvie opinion of them based purely on a choice they made in private that doesn't effect you. I probably would have chosen a more minor crime to get the point across but it does directly answer the question of prejudice.
To answer the thread though, if you want to take it as technical as it can go, it is prejudice against an action but not a person, but I voted no as prejudice in my opinion tends to reffer to people and not things - I preffer green to red but no one would describe me as prejudiced against red. To continue, it's not prejudice as at is nothing about the person themself that would result in me having a worse opinion of them, but rather something they choose to do and at any point could choose not to do - and it is a choice which has real noticable behavioural and cognitive changes. I would say it is like being accused of being prejudiced of someone who may occasionally scream in your face if you catch them at the wrong moment, rather something about a person that annoys you than a prejudice towards that person.
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On October 17 2011 20:50 DarQraven wrote:Show nested quote +On October 17 2011 20:47 TheGiftedApe wrote:On October 17 2011 20:41 DarQraven wrote:On October 17 2011 20:20 TheGiftedApe wrote:On October 17 2011 20:13 DarQraven wrote:On October 17 2011 20:05 TheGiftedApe wrote:On October 17 2011 19:57 DarQraven wrote:On October 17 2011 19:49 TheGiftedApe wrote:On October 17 2011 19:25 DarQraven wrote:
For me it comes down to not really respecting someone's personality/mind when they feel a need to take mind-alterating substances on a regular basis to be able to enjoy themselves or feel worthwhile.
Now don't come at me with the weak-ass "everything is a mind-alterating substance" BS; sugar, caffeine and vitamins aren't even remotely close to the effects of alcohol, thc and other drugs.
Let me ask you, what is the concensus about people who drink every single day, and up to a point where they won't be all 'there' anymore? Not just one glass of wine or something, think along the lines of 4+ beers every day (since that's around the same level of fucked-upness that marijuana tends to give you, at least for me)?
You'd label those people alcoholics, don't lie. You'd say they have a drinking problem. You would say they are probably having issues of some sort.
Then why should I be completely fine with people who are stoned every day, most of the day?
You underestimate the power of caffeine and synthesized legal stimulants, Go to the local Market and drink a couple of "High Power Energy Voltage Red bull Crack in a can" drinks and tell me you don't get the shakes. I'm no doctor, but I'd be willing to guess that whatever is making my body uncontrollably shake for up too an hour is just as harmful as any weed or alcohol abuse, Long and short term. And to your other point, Are you blaming alcohol/drugs, as to why people are having issues/problems in their life or is the drug just a crutch/symptom of a bigger emotional issue? Maybe there are some cases, but I find it hard to believe that someone who is abusing a drug, their only problem is the abuse of the drug and that is why they are depressed/have issues. You seem to have misread this. sugar, caffeine and vitamins aren't even remotely close to the effects of alcohol, thc and other drugs Yes, you get shaky when you take massive amounts of caffeine. Do you start babbling nonsense, though? Do you possibly turn all introverted and trip out, or go off on a longwinded tangent about snail decoration? I said those substances aren't even close to typical drugs in their effect, not that they don't have an effect. For hell's sake, you could probably eat a few cups of sugar and you'd have shaky hands and a massive energy boost as well. It wouldn't change your personality, though. Drugs do. They simply have a whole different range of effects on people, effects that change how they behave, respond, think. Even if they respond or think much at all. They can change your perception time and space. They can make you see shit that simply isn't there. The most introverted guy in the world can suddenly go off blabbering on and on to complete strangers. They can make you "see clearly" (read: disable/reduce critical thought). When's the last time you hallucinated because of 5 cups of coffee? I once again disagree, You've never shown up to work or school and been next too the person who has had 1 too many cups of coffee and is Unable to stop talking for 2 hours straight, constantly pestering about something which you would never ordinarily talk about. Although they would usually be silent or "introverted" as you would put it without the coffee. I've never hallucinated from drinking coffee or eating sugar, but I've never hallucinated from drinking alcohol either or smoking weed. Caffiene likewise can "change your perception of time and space" just in the other direction, 1 minute can feel like an hour etc. In freaking massive amounts, yes. Think along the lines of 2-3 jars in the span of an hour, and not that watery stuff Starbucks calls coffee either. 99.99% Of people will not ever drink that much, because they're not drinking coffee with the sole intent of becoming ADHD as fuck. With drugs you do. You only take drugs to become different - that's a philosophical difference if anything, and quite an important one as well. That said, I get the feeling you're just coming up with stuff just to try to make a point. No, I have *never* had my perception of time changed the way it did by using marijuana, by anything else. Not by having fun, studying, caffeine, sugar, alcohol, etc or a combination of any of those. I spent an 'hour' lost in my own room trying to find my bag, which turned out to be exactly 1 minute when I came back to the clock in the kitchen. That shit just doesn't happen with any 'regular' substance, no matter how much you take. Similarly, I have never seen a shy guy suddenly want to hug strangers because he's had sugar. That aside, why are we narrowing this discussion down to marijuana all of a sudden? No, weed won't make you hallucinate. LSD will. Shrooms will. As far as I'm aware, those qualify as drugs as well and their effects blow caffeine or sugar, even in massive amounts, clear out of the water. You said "Now don't come at me with the weak-ass "everything is a mind-alterating substance" BS; sugar, caffeine and vitamins aren't even remotely close to the effects of alcohol, thc and other drugs." And I am trying to relate caffeine to alcohol and marijuana if consumed in equal quantities/abused. You might not abuse caffeine but there are plenty of people who have 3-4 cups of strong coffee before noon. These people are drinking the coffee to "become different" just because caffeine Get's you going, and Alcohol slows you down doesn't mean one is worse than the other. As for the other more hardcore drugs that actually make you hallucinate, lsd ecstacy shrooms etc, there is no relation and i would not try to make one. I said that, and I never contradicted that or abandoned that position. None of those substances are capable of doing to you what more serious drugs can, no matter the amounts involved. Read my previous post again. You still seem to be under the assumption that I'm saying that common chemicals have *no effect*. They do. Just not an effect that's even in the same league as your typical party drug or hallucinogen, or just weed for that matter. It doesn't matter how much coffee you drink or how much it gets you going, you will still be the same person, just more awake, more energy or at least the experience thereof. A high dose of certain vitamins can make you very aware, concentrated. Sugar gives you a bit of a rush, then a low after that. That is not remotely the same as the effects of, let's say, LSD, where you'll be tripping balls for a good hour or 10 and will be barely recognizable, personality wise, to sober people. I don't see how you've presented any arguments to the contrary, or what you're even trying to argue anymore. If what you said was true, how come we don't have people overdosing on caffeine at raves instead of the more costly and illegal drugs? I am not talking about sugar or any of the hard drugs you are talking about. I am ONLY talking about Caffeine, Marijuana, and Alcohol, and their similarities. I've already stated my opinion on the others on page 14. Then your post is pointless since I AM talking about those.
When you say "Now don't come at me with the weak-ass "everything is a mind-alterating substance" BS; sugar, caffeine and vitamins aren't even remotely close to the effects of alcohol, thc and other drugs."
it sounds like you are saying caffeine is as harmless as vitamins or sugar, and marijuana and alcohol more similar to cocaine or meth than too caffeine. Caffeine is a powerful stimulant and has no nutritional value like sugar or vitamins do. I'll leave it too a miscommunication since we are using text and not spoken word. All I was trying to say is caffeine is a drug, no different than weed or alcohol imo, very different than sugar or vitamins, The main difference is Caffeine comes packaged with fancy advertising and has billions of dollars behind it.
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