EPTSend me PM if you want to continue the discussion. I do not agree with these rules, but I will try to respect them.
Dating: How's your luck? - Page 556
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We are extremely close to shutting down this thread for the same reasons the PUA thread was shut down. While some of the time this thread contains actual discussion with people asking help and people giving nice advice, it often gets derailed by rubbish that should not be here. The moderation team will be trying to steer this thread in a different direction from now on. Posts of the following nature are banned: 1) ANYTHING regarding PUA. If your post contains the words 'alpha' or 'beta' or anything of that sort please don't hit post. 2) Stupid brags. You can tell us about your nice success stories with someone, but posts such as 'lol 50 Tinder matches' are a no-no. 3) Any misogynistic bullshit, including discussion about rape culture. 4) One night stands and random sex. These are basically brags that invariably devolve into gender role discussions and misogynistic comments. Last chance, guys. This thread is for dating advice and sharing dating stories. While gender roles, sociocultural norms, and our biological imperative to reproduce are all tangentially related, these subjects are not the main purpose of the thread. Please AVOID these discussions. If you want to discuss them at length, go to PMs or start a blog. If you disagree with someone's ideologies, state that you disagree with them and why they won't work from a dating standpoint and move on. We will not tolerate any lengthy derailments that aren't directly about dating. | ||
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Killscreen
188 Posts
Send me PM if you want to continue the discussion. I do not agree with these rules, but I will try to respect them. | ||
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farvacola
United States18826 Posts
"I take my dating advice from Darwin." Hokayyyy | ||
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Killscreen
188 Posts
On October 23 2014 21:37 farvacola wrote: Haha, excellent. "I take my dating advice from Darwin." Hokayyyy I take my model of how life, and people, work, from evolutionary biology. To not do so, with the mountains of evidence that support it, is irrational. Every single emotion we experience, in a fully functional brain, are biologically controlled chemical responses to sensory input to the brain. All optimized for our survival and reproduction, and that includes attraction Again, send me a PM, if you have an actual logical argument. | ||
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Steins;Gate
1422 Posts
On October 23 2014 21:49 Killscreen wrote: I take my model of how life, and people, work, from evolutionary biology. To not do so, with the mountains of evidence that support it, is irrational. Every single emotion we experience, in a fully functional brain, are biologically controlled chemical responses to sensory input to the brain. All optimized for our survival and reproduction, and that includes attraction Again, send me a PM, if you have an actual logical argument. Evolutionary biology does not take into account social cultural factors. You will basically be looking at a minimal parental investment theory, suggesting that men look for quantity and women look for quality.I will also like to point out that, gender explains less than half of the variance in desire for casual sex (Gangstead, 1991). In regards to the mountain of evidence part, lol. In spirit of what this thread is about, what are some good lines to start a conversation with someone? | ||
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Killscreen
188 Posts
On October 23 2014 22:53 Steins;Gate wrote: Evolutionary biology does not take into account social cultural factors. You will basically be looking at a minimal parental investment theory, suggesting that men look for quantity and women look for quality.I will also like to point out that, gender explains less than half of the variance in desire for casual sex (Gangstead, 1991). In regards to the mountain of evidence part, lol. In spirit of what this thread is about, what are some good lines to start a conversation with someone? "lol" is not as compelling an argument as you think it is. Contrary to popular belief, you cannot control what people are attracted to through socialization, just as you cant control what people enjoy eating through socialization. This kind of thinking comes from the tabula rasa model of humans, and that model has been thoroughly disproved! People just refuse to accept it. To make a comparison, diet varies slightly across culture, but we all like salt and sugar, because our brains have evolved to like them. Same thing with attraction. Desire for casual sex proves nothing. There is no biological reason for why women wouldn't have casual sex. Women in fact, do enjoy casual sex, most are just more particular about who they will have it with than most men. Honestly, that kind of statement just displays an ignorance of what sex and gender and their purposes actually are. Ever asked yourself why there isn't just one gender capable of exchanging dna with another member of the same sex? There is a very good reason for that, and once you learn the answer, this stuff will start making sense. "Hi! I'm Steins!" works well. | ||
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Steins;Gate
1422 Posts
On October 23 2014 23:14 Killscreen wrote: "lol" is not as compelling an argument as you think it is. Contrary to popular belief, you cannot control what people are attracted to through socialization, just as you cant control what people enjoy eating through socialization. This kind of thinking comes from the tabula rasa model of humans, and that model has been thoroughly disproved! People just refuse to accept it. To make a comparison, diet varies slightly across culture, but we all like salt and sugar, because our brains have evolved to like them. Same thing with attraction. Desire for casual sex proves nothing. There is no biological reason for why women wouldn't have casual sex. Women in fact, do enjoy casual sex, most are just more particular about who they will have it with than most men. Honestly, that kind of statement just displays an ignorance of what sex and gender and their purposes actually are. Ever asked yourself why there isn't just one gender capable of exchanging dna with another member of the same sex? There is a very good reason for that, and once you learn the answer, this stuff will start making sense. "Hi! I'm Steins!" works well. What I'm saying is that biological processes does not contribute to everything, social cultural factors matter as well. It's like the stupid nurture vs nature debate. They both matter. You can't only think about it from the biological point of view. To just focus on one factor is ignorant. That doesn't seem to work well. If it helps in giving slightly better advice, this is in a university setting. | ||
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Killscreen
188 Posts
On October 24 2014 00:12 Steins;Gate wrote: What I'm saying is that biological processes does not contribute to everything, social cultural factors matter as well. It's like the stupid nurture vs nature debate. They both matter. You can't only think about it from the biological point of view. To just focus on one factor is ignorant. That doesn't seem to work well. If it helps in giving slightly better advice, this is in a university setting. Nature vs nurture is by no means a stupid debate. It's _very_ important because it affects policy- and law-makers, and it affects men's ability to understand and attract women. We should all strive to understand life and people as best we can, and remove the idea of tabula rasa ( blank slate ) from the zeitgeist. It's an admittedly appealing idea, but has been conclusively proven to be false. The common response is "well, it's a little of both, let's just move on". No, it's not a little of both, it's a lot of nature, and a little nurture. Take any study done on identical twins separated at birth. Now look at studies on adopted siblings. They all show the same thing; nature matters a LOT more. Listen, "lines" are cheap. You could tell a joke, ask a question you don't really care about the answer to, or any number of dumb stunts to try to get her attention. Just introducing yourself shows confidence. You don't need any other reason to talk to a girl other than that you want to, and you are a man who pursues what he wants. You certainly don't need any gimmicks, because you are enough of a man to not need them. It's ok to be nervous, as long as you do it anyway. | ||
Acrofales
Spain17989 Posts
On October 24 2014 00:25 Killscreen wrote: Nature vs nurture is by no means a stupid debate. It's _very_ important because it affects policy- and law-makers, and it affects men's ability to understand and attract women. We should all strive to understand life and people as best we can, and remove the idea of tabula rasa ( blank slate ) from the zeitgeist. It's an admittedly appealing idea, but has been conclusively proven to be false. The common response is "well, it's a little of both, let's just move on". No, it's not a little of both, it's a lot of nature, and a little nurture. Take any study done on identical twins separated at birth. Now look at studies on adopted siblings. They all show the same thing; nature matters a LOT more. Listen, "lines" are cheap. You could tell a joke, ask a question you don't really care about the answer to, or any number of dumb stunts to try to get her attention. Just introducing yourself shows confidence. You don't need any other reason to talk to a girl other than that you want to, and you are a man who pursues what he wants. You certainly don't need any gimmicks, because you are enough of a man to not need them. It's ok to be nervous, as long as you do it anyway. At the risk of taking this even further off topic than it is already: it IS a little bit of both. There is a reason ghetto kids do worse than non-ghetto kids in school and at life in general, and it is NOT because they are black. It's because socio-economic factors. And those same socio-economic factors have been shown to play an important role in how we select our partners. I'd cite the paper(s), but I'm lazy and this is the internetz. There is also no biological imperative to eat with knife and fork, but if you take your date to. a nice restaurant, you better know how to use them, or she'll think you're a troglodyte, and probably leave. It's about etiquette, which is a social convention. You can argue about biological reasons underlying the social etiquette in a deep dark past, but it is pretty much irrelevant to the social convention in its current form. EDIT: adding in the pretext for this post: agree with the advice on opening lines. | ||
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eviltomahawk
United States11135 Posts
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Killscreen
188 Posts
On October 25 2014 08:43 Acrofales wrote: At the risk of taking this even further off topic than it is already: it IS a little bit of both. There is a reason ghetto kids do worse than non-ghetto kids in school and at life in general, and it is NOT because they are black. It's because socio-economic factors. And those same socio-economic factors have been shown to play an important role in how we select our partners. I'd cite the paper(s), but I'm lazy and this is the internetz. Let's clear up some semantic details; choosing to settle down with someone is a decision, and one that demands a certain degree of pragmatism. You may feel very attracted to a stripper, but chances are you're not thinking about proposing to her ( if you are; don't! ). Attraction is an involuntary emotion, and not the same thing as deciding who to start a life with, so a study on partner selection in the context of socio economical factors, is not a study on attraction. People may chose to eat when not hungry if they think eating anyway is a good idea. Same thing with sex. We're not really interested in persuading women to fuck us in spite of them not feeling any attraction, though. I mean that's not what we want to be doing, right? But this is what easily happens when you fail to make the distinction between the emotion and the decision. So understanding the biological, evolved, positively selected for, chemical response in our brain to certain sensory inputs, that we understand and experience as attraction is of extremely high value to anyone who wants a healthy sex life with options. When you really accept that, you subconsciously stop trying to influence her rational decision, and instead on making her want to fuck you. That's a bit blunt, but that is what attraction is; wanting to fuck someone ( or thing ). As far as cutlery goes, I agree, for a lot of women that would be a deal breaker. Not for most men, though, for obvious biological reasons. | ||
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RogerX
New Zealand3180 Posts
So I saw this cute girl on Facebook, and I decided to add her and send her a message. And we found out we have a lot in common! And we talked about quite a bit this week. And I eventually asked her out and she said yes. However, she's reluctant because she said she would be going a bit far (the city) to meet someone she's never met before. I'm not sure if this was the best thing to do in this scenario, but I tried to push it a bit by jokingly saying i'm not dodgy and I could be trusted (This was probably a bad idea) But she said "maybe" and she'd think about it. So I asked her if she would like to Skype with cam or a simple phone call to help her build trust on me. And thats it so far... So my question is, what should I do now? Did I screw up somewhere? The one reply I got was why I don't go to her and how far it is. The city is about the same length between us so it would kind of be in the middl. She still talks to me of course. But I'm wondering when I should engage in conversation it her again and should I just ask her if I should go to her instead? | ||
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puppykiller
United States3128 Posts
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RogerX
New Zealand3180 Posts
I'll tell you guys how it goes later Any tips on ways to persuade her to meet someone shes only talked to on fb? | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland25302 Posts
Found one who seems almost tailored to me, just never cold messaged anyone before, any of you have any general tips? | ||
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Najda
United States3765 Posts
On October 30 2014 10:19 Wombat_NI wrote: Yeah make fun all you will, been trawling the online dating scene a bit. About to say fuck if after the innumerable 'I like to have fun and I like music' profiles. Found one who seems almost tailored to me, just never cold messaged anyone before, any of you have any general tips? Keep it lighthearted and fun, and keep the deeper conversation for when you're in person. Don't get caught up on one person, even if you send the perfect message they might just not be in the mood when they read it, and then it just disappears into the 100 other messages they get. | ||
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LemOn
United Kingdom8629 Posts
My gf is one of these girls Basically, we've been going out for 4 months now. No matter how well things are going well this is the recurring pattern: When we meet I do stuff like kiss her, share food, try to hold her hand at the table when she tells me something bad that happened to her, giver her a kiss in the morning, want to drink shots with her cross armed etc... you get the jist, couply stuff. She most often just turns away, flat out refuses to do stuff like this, and hardly ever initiates stuff herself. She reads romantic novels etc. and her opinion is that the guy should always chase after her and try to win her affection, but often even after a long time she just constantly turns me down. She tells me what I should improve, but I can't expect any compliments from her, thank yous only via messages where she knows I clearly expect it. She told me she wants kids within 5 years and hints at this often too... Yet I talk about the future she always pulls this "eww" face, tells me we have a non-relationship - relationship even tho we clearly do have one, daily messages, weekends together, 2-3x per week we se each other, are exclusive and have sexy virtually every day we are together. This leaves me feeling shitty, and when I ask myself if I can imagine being in 5 years down the line with someone like that where I always have to try and she will turn away 7 times when I try to just give her a kiss in the morning the answer is: hell no. Basically what I want to do is tell her that we either: 1) tell her than we can either keep seeing each other, but onlycasually, - we have so much fun and are crazy about each other. She is just this way because of her upbringing and past relationships I assume, and I suspect she always will be. I'd tell her we'd call and text way less and just do fun stuff her and there when we feel like it. 2) basically ask of her to change and work hard on this in which case I will also work hard to get to know her and get closer to her so we build a strong relationship 3) break up I mean... This girl is way too great to just screw around with, I can't see myself dating anyone else while I'm with her, so breaking up and work on getting over her and finding someone more suitable seems like a solid option. Am I being unreasonable? I grew up with father who was beating me and stuff and rarely showed any affection, and I really need reciprocity in a relationship... I love the girl to bits but as she is I can't see this lasting long term... What'd you guys do... do one of the three, or just say nothing, persuade self that its just fun, and know there is no future without telling her or just come clean and discuss the three options? | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland25302 Posts
You aren't being unreasonable, neither is she you just have fundamentally differing wants in these areas and I don't see that really ever changing. One or both of you can compromise and behave in the opposite way, but the underlying personalities probably won't. I've been in that kind of relationship before and that's what I found anyway. | ||
CosmicSpiral
United States15275 Posts
On October 24 2014 00:12 Steins;Gate wrote: That doesn't seem to work well. If it helps in giving slightly better advice, this is in a university setting. Lines do not matter. You can open with "Hi, who are you?" or "Hi, is this the baby-grinding factory?" and get the same result if it's congruent with your personality and comes from a place of outcome independence. You can also open non-verbally if it tickles your fancy. On October 30 2014 10:19 Wombat_NI wrote: Yeah make fun all you will, been trawling the online dating scene a bit. About to say fuck if after the innumerable 'I like to have fun and I like music' profiles. Found one who seems almost tailored to me, just never cold messaged anyone before, any of you have any general tips? Say something sensible and see how it goes. You can never tailor your responses to one individual. Just remember that dating, whether it's online or in person, is meant to be fun. On October 31 2014 09:37 LemOn wrote: So I wanna ask you guys My gf is one of these girls https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DQHM9YtRAMo Basically, we've been going out for 4 months now. No matter how well things are going well this is the recurring pattern: When we meet I do stuff like kiss her, share food, try to hold her hand at the table when she tells me something bad that happened to her, giver her a kiss in the morning, want to drink shots with her cross armed etc... you get the jist, couply stuff. She most often just turns away, flat out refuses to do stuff like this, and hardly ever initiates stuff herself. She reads romantic novels etc. and her opinion is that the guy should always chase after her and try to win her affection, but often even after a long time she just constantly turns me down. She tells me what I should improve, but I can't expect any compliments from her, thank yous only via messages where she knows I clearly expect it. She told me she wants kids within 5 years and hints at this often too... Yet I talk about the future she always pulls this "eww" face, tells me we have a non-relationship - relationship even tho we clearly do have one, daily messages, weekends together, 2-3x per week we se each other, are exclusive and have sexy virtually every day we are together. This leaves me feeling shitty, and when I ask myself if I can imagine being in 5 years down the line with someone like that where I always have to try and she will turn away 7 times when I try to just give her a kiss in the morning the answer is: hell no. Basically what I want to do is tell her that we either: 1) tell her than we can either keep seeing each other, but onlycasually, - we have so much fun and are crazy about each other. She is just this way because of her upbringing and past relationships I assume, and I suspect she always will be. I'd tell her we'd call and text way less and just do fun stuff her and there when we feel like it. 2) basically ask of her to change and work hard on this in which case I will also work hard to get to know her and get closer to her so we build a strong relationship 3) break up I mean... This girl is way too great to just screw around with, I can't see myself dating anyone else while I'm with her, so breaking up and work on getting over her and finding someone more suitable seems like a solid option. Am I being unreasonable? I grew up with father who was beating me and stuff and rarely showed any affection, and I really need reciprocity in a relationship... I love the girl to bits but as she is I can't see this lasting long term... What'd you guys do... do one of the three, or just say nothing, persuade self that its just fun, and know there is no future without telling her or just come clean and discuss the three options? Lemon, is this the same girl you posted about before? | ||
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evanthebouncy!
United States12796 Posts
On October 30 2014 10:04 RogerX wrote: Yeah i've been planning to ask her later tonight. Just wondering if its actually the distance thing or if shes just scared of meeting a dude she met on fb. I'll tell you guys how it goes later Any tips on ways to persuade her to meet someone shes only talked to on fb? I once flew from California to Chicago to tell someone I liked her 10 years ago. edit: meaning I had a crush on her in elementary school, lost contact with her, and only just then found how she lives in Chicago. All the trouble to just to say that, to get over the fact that 10 years ago I was not brave enough to tell her I liked her. It's not even for dating or sex or relationship. 0 return. Paid my own flights and hotels (while being a poor undergraduate student). She's just across the city, why don't you let her pick a place of her choice so she feels safe, and show up there on time? Why do you insist on night time? Wouldn't a brunch / lunch / coffee followed by a stroll in a nearby park, museum, be more enlightening? I.e. you actually get to talk a lot and find out about each other? | ||
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RogerX
New Zealand3180 Posts
On October 31 2014 14:39 evanthebouncy! wrote: I once flew from California to Chicago to tell someone I liked her 10 years ago. edit: meaning I had a crush on her in elementary school, lost contact with her, and only just then found how she lives in Chicago. All the trouble to just to say that, to get over the fact that 10 years ago I was not brave enough to tell her I liked her. It's not even for dating or sex or relationship. 0 return. Paid my own flights and hotels (while being a poor undergraduate student). She's just across the city, why don't you let her pick a place of her choice so she feels safe, and show up there on time? Why do you insist on night time? Wouldn't a brunch / lunch / coffee followed by a stroll in a nearby park, museum, be more enlightening? I.e. you actually get to talk a lot and find out about each other? Yup, I asked her anywhere is fine. She considered it in response and now she just wants to meet in the city (lol) because there's no good places to hang out there. Now i'm just wondering if she knows its a date when I asked her to "go out" with me. But thanks for that story. It's very enlightening. | ||
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