We are extremely close to shutting down this thread for the same reasons the PUA thread was shut down. While some of the time this thread contains actual discussion with people asking help and people giving nice advice, it often gets derailed by rubbish that should not be here. The moderation team will be trying to steer this thread in a different direction from now on.
Posts of the following nature are banned: 1) ANYTHING regarding PUA. If your post contains the words 'alpha' or 'beta' or anything of that sort please don't hit post. 2) Stupid brags. You can tell us about your nice success stories with someone, but posts such as 'lol 50 Tinder matches' are a no-no. 3) Any misogynistic bullshit, including discussion about rape culture. 4) One night stands and random sex. These are basically brags that invariably devolve into gender role discussions and misogynistic comments.
Last chance, guys. This thread is for dating advice and sharing dating stories. While gender roles, sociocultural norms, and our biological imperative to reproduce are all tangentially related, these subjects are not the main purpose of the thread. Please AVOID these discussions. If you want to discuss them at length, go to PMs or start a blog. If you disagree with someone's ideologies, state that you disagree with them and why they won't work from a dating standpoint and move on. We will not tolerate any lengthy derailments that aren't directly about dating.
On May 08 2013 17:30 quetzy wrote: I hope I won't go too much OT here, but after reading some of the posts here, I feel this would be a very very useful read for many: http://www.cracked.com/blog/6-harsh-truths-that-will-make-you-better-person/ especially points #4, #3 and #2, but also, well, the whole article. Just read it.
Don't say that you're a nice guy -- that's the bare minimum. Pretty girls have guys being nice to them 36 times a day. Saying that you're a nice guy is like a restaurant whose only selling point is that the food doesn't make you sick. You're like a new movie whose title is This Movie Is in English, and its tagline is "The actors are clearly visible."
I used to be extremely shy with girls, classic geek I guess (played a lot of Broodwar back in college ) What changed me was I think first work, and second, travel. Also, in general, throwing yourself into situations where you get to meet new people does the trick. I'm 32 now, married and happy, had my share of dating, and witnessed quite some dating drama in my friends' lives. Can't say I'm wise now, but I do have some experience and I can say that it sure would be great if someone put that article in my brain when I was, say, back in college.
Bottomline is - stop trying to 'meet a girl' or 'get a girl'. Stop fretting over dates, they are not important. Just work on improving yourself, become a person that is impressive *to you*, and you'll be amazed at how many opportunities you suddenly have without even trying. Become interesting, and it's you who will get to choose. And when two people who find each other interesting go on a date, or do any activity together for that matter, it's going to be fun.
I am laughing so hard at that article. It is a study in flawed assumptions, word-diarrhea and superiority complex.
Oh the irony. I'm guessing what you're saying is... he should stop creating?
@sunprince you are correct, most women prefer the "submissive" side. but you are wrong, to be dominant in the context of dating, relationships and social situations does not mean to dominate people, it means to dominate yourself and be in control of the events around you. people gather around and follow these kind of people naturally without having to be "dominated" into doing it. also, "submissive" simply means "not most dominant". make no mistake, the most attractive women are quite dominant as well, but what they are looking for are men that are even more dominant.
@r.Evo and @McBengt completely agree.
@quetzy nice article, agreed. on top of #4, #3 and #2 that you mentioned, I would also like to highlight #1
for those of you that didn't bother reading the article, here's some simplified notes, think of them as TL:DRs for each of the 6 parts:
6. humans are in essence selfish, while our selfishness has produced altruism since teamwork is beneficial, at the end of the day everyone cares most about what benefit they can get from others, regardless of if this benefit is status, food, money, sex, children, a promotion, safety, a feeling of superiority or simply a laugh and a smile.
5. you are your job. your job here is not what profession you practice but what you can provide to society and people around you. if you think you have a part of you that you simply don't show to society, then you cannot expect others to judge you (favorably) based on those hidden qualities. if society and people doesn't know about them. then they effectively don't exist until you show them.
4. there is a baseline minimum that people expect you to be able to give them. you are expected to be a nice person, you are expected to have decent hygiene, you are expected to not hurt people and fulfilling these criteria simply means you are not immediately disqualified, it does not mean people will automatically like you. you need to demonstrate further skills, but these skills does not necessarily need to be of immediate benefit nor does the benefit need to be money. but they must provide some benefit.
3. the dislike of the self come from only one source: the fact that you are not doing anything about your situation. a fat person with a bucket of icecream in his/her lap silently cries and hates his/herself. a fat person making changes to the diet and actively exercising is loving his/her life and looking forward to seeing results.
2. your personality is the proverbial dirt from which the proverbial tree (you) grows, but people don't actually care about the dirt. they care about the proverbial fruit, which is the result of your actions. answer this: if you see 2 trees, one of which has plenty of fruit and the other is barren. do you care about which tree sits in the best dirt? good dirt tends to give better fruit, but this is not always the case. and only the fruit actually matters, regardless of the dirt.
1. our brains hate change. the most rooted down belief in our mind is that "what I have been doing so far have worked, since I'm still alive, and thus I should not change it." people only ever actually change something of their own accord when they feel the absolute need, and then they make the smallest possible change to continue functioning. this is an absolutely beautiful defense mechanism, it has served humanity well for tens of thousands of years. but it works against us when we don't do what we are supposed to do for long periods of time. an example: all addicts go to extreme lengths to justify their inability to quit whatever they are addicted to. and here's the punchline: Everyone are addicted to themselves.
@ghostcom I see you learned nothing from the article. have fun in life.
The best part is he dismisses the article the way the article said people like him would dismiss it. He's proving the article right in some ways, just by dismissing it the way he does. It's actually quite deep xD.
On May 08 2013 21:15 Mikau wrote: The best part is he dismisses the article the way the article said people like him would dismiss it. He's proving the article right in some ways, just by dismissing it the way he does. It's actually quite deep xD.
On May 08 2013 19:08 corumjhaelen wrote: Never thought I'd say that, but this thread needs some Hegel. I don't want to be dominant. I'm wary of "leaders", charisma is not a quality.
We want our society of amoral social climbers, stop ruining our fun.
The content is not without merit, but the article itself is piss-poor both in how it's written and how it presents its case. Whenever some self-styled guru like whoever wrote that announces that he will deliver "harsh truth" or a "reality check", it's usually just code for being a douchebag and overly negative/cynical. It would be very nice to have something with a similar message composed by someone who isn't a slobbering dickhead, but that is unlikely, as people like that are usually busy doing something useful.
It's just really about choices and priorities. How badly do you want it, what are you willing to sacrifice, how much of yourself are you willing to invest, what will it take? Until you know the answers to those questions, you won't even know if you actually want a relationship. For some reason a relationship has become an accessory, something you are just supposed to have, because it's apparently a criteria for success, but if you haven't even figured out if and why you actually want it, then what the fuck are you doing trying to hook up in the first place?
If chasing girls is something you absolutely want to do, if your quality of life would be vastly improved by finding a partner, then do it, and fucking commit. If you are not sure, if it's something that would be nice but really essential, then stop thinking about it and do something more productive. The worst possible option is the behaviour that is rife in this thread, a sort of twilight in between that gets nothing accomplished. It won't get you a girl because you won't confront yourself and your flaws with brutal honesty, won't go that extra mile and really put yourself in the firing line, and it saps your energy to do other things beacuse it sits in your head like a cancer.
If you want it, go for it, otherwise don't. And even If you don't, and instead focus on other things, nothing says you couldn't encounter someone interesting in the course of any random activity. Just make up your mind.
On May 08 2013 16:53 r.Evo wrote: Now let's look at people pointing out how "I'm going to dominate her" is bullshit. Political correctness? Screw that. "Being dominant" or "acting dominant" is completely different from "trying to dominate someone". The latter implies control, the former ones imply both leading and protecting.
You're arguing semantics here. The definitions for dominate and dominant pretty clearly indicate that to dominate someone means to act dominant towards them.
If you are dominant, that means you are in control and leading. You can use that dominance to protect, or you could use it to harm; the definition does not include what that dominance is for.
Semantics is actually a quite important argument when someone confuses connotation with denotation. You can't just say "dominating someone is the same as acting dominant" when they have completely different connotations, one even being mostly negative and one being mostly positive.
"He's the most dominant guy she ever was with." / "He was the guy who dominated her life the most." are completely different statements. It gets even more fun when you bring it into a political context, but instead I just refer you to the merriam webster link you apparently posted without reading it yourself:
Dominate: Related Words annihilate, beat, clobber, crush, defeat, drub, lick, mow (down), overcome, prevail (over), reduce, rout, skunk, smash, thrash, triumph (over), trounce, wallop, whip; enslave; break, clamp down (on), crack down (on), put down, quash, quell, repress, silence, smother, snuff (out), squash, squelch, suppress
On May 08 2013 19:08 corumjhaelen wrote: Never thought I'd say that, but this thread needs some Hegel. I don't want to be dominant. I'm wary of "leaders", charisma is not a quality. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=op3w3wMqdwg
We want our society of amoral social climbers, stop ruining our fun.
Just don't act superior because of it then Oh wait, that's almost contradictory. Fuck it. McBengt is making sense though, you guys shouldn't listen to him, he's dangerous !
On May 08 2013 21:38 McBengt wrote: The content is not without merit, but the article itself is piss-poor both in how it's written and how it presents its case. Whenever some self-styled guru like whoever wrote that announces that he will deliver "harsh truth" or a "reality check", it's usually just code for being a douchebag and overly negative/cynical. It would be very nice to have something with a similar message composed by someone who isn't a slobbering dickhead, but that is unlikely, as people like that are usually busy doing something useful.
It's just really about choices and priorities. How badly do you want it, what are you willing to sacrifice, how much of yourself are you willing to invest, what will it take? Until you know the answers to those questions, you won't even know if you actually want a relationship. For some reason a relationship has become an accessory, something you are just supposed to have, because it's apparently a criteria for success, but if you haven't even figured out if and why you actually want it, then what the fuck are you doing trying to hook up in the first place?
If chasing girls is something you absolutely want to do, if your quality of life would be vastly improved by finding a partner, then do it, and fucking commit. If you are not sure, if it's something that would be nice but really essential, then stop thinking about it and do something more productive. The worst possible option is the behaviour that is rife in this thread, a sort of twilight in between that gets nothing accomplished. It won't get you a girl because you won't confront yourself and your flaws with brutal honesty, won't go that extra mile and really put yourself in the firing line, and it saps your energy to do other things beacuse it sits in your head like a cancer.
If you want it, go for it, otherwise don't. And even If you don't, and instead focus on other things, nothing says you couldn't encounter someone interesting in the course of any random activity. Just make up your mind.
This is actually pretty good advice, and I came to a similar conclusion myself a few days ago.
The problem for me personally is that up until a year ago, I had spent basically all my 20s on college campuses so it was easy to meet girls. I'm still on a college campus, but it feels sort of weird being interested in the same age girls I was like 8 years ago. I'm also an employee now, so it kinda just puts me in a weird spot (even though I know a lot of faculty still mess around with the students).
The issue for me is that the only girls around my age that actually "aggressively" pursue me I feel are significantly below my standards. I'm not trying to be a douche, I'm just not attracted to them and feel they are way below my "league." It seems like all the decent women my age are taken, or the ones that aren't have an inflated sense of self-worth.
I started to realize the amount of mental and physical energy I would now have to put into trying to get someone around my age that I also felt was in my "league" and I simply came to the conclusion that I just don't give enough of a shit right now. Maybe my mind will change in a month, a year, 5 years, I don't know. Maybe I'll "settle" for either a younger girl or a girl that is below my standards. Right now, though, I know I'd be happier without them, and I don't want to put in the effort required to get what I really want right now. It just isn't worth it to me at this point.
Maybe that will change soon, but for now I'm just taking the easy road.
On May 08 2013 17:30 quetzy wrote: I hope I won't go too much OT here, but after reading some of the posts here, I feel this would be a very very useful read for many: http://www.cracked.com/blog/6-harsh-truths-that-will-make-you-better-person/ especially points #4, #3 and #2, articlelso, well, the whole article. Just read it.
Don't say that you're a nice guy that's the bare minimum. Pretty girls have e guys being nice to them 36 times a day. Saying that you're a nice guy is like a restaurant whose only selling point is that the food doesn't make you sick. You're like a new movie whose title is This Movie Is in English, and its tagline is "The actors are clearly visible."
I used to be extremely shy with girls, classic geek I guess (played a lot of Broodwar back in college ) What changed me was I think first work, and second, travel. Also, in general, throwing yourself into situations where you get to meet new people does the trick. I'm 32 now, married and happy, had my share of dating, and witnessed quite some dating drama in my friends' lives. Can't say I'm wise now, but I do have some experience and I can say that it sure would be great if someone put that article in my brain when I was, say, back in college.
Bottomline is - stop trying to 'meet a girl' or 'get a girl'. Stop fretting over dates, they are not important. Just work on improving yourself, become a person that is impressive *to you*, and you'll be amazed at how many opportunities you suddenly have without even trying. Become interesting, and it's you who will get to choose. And when two people who find each other interesting go on a date, or do any activity together for that matter, it's going to be fun.
I am laughing so hard at that article. It is a study in flawed assumptions, word-diarrhea and superiority complex.
Oh the irony. I'm guessing what you're saying is... he should stop creating?
I think you might want to read what I actually wrote again, because I said no such thing. That idiocy will have to be on your account.
@Robin: Thank you! My life is actually pretty good and without flexing the old e-peen too much I think it is safe to say that I am successful when you apply any of the most common criteria, and also when applying one of the more important ones in so far that I can recognise myself in the mirror. My understanding of the article is just fine - one would have had to still be in second grade to not understand it. McBengt hit some of the key points concerning it's weakness and quite honestly I do not see any reason to waste more time on it.
On May 08 2013 21:38 McBengt wrote: The content is not without merit, but the article itself is piss-poor both in how it's written and how it presents its case. Whenever some self-styled guru like whoever wrote that announces that he will deliver "harsh truth" or a "reality check", it's usually just code for being a douchebag and overly negative/cynical. It would be very nice to have something with a similar message composed by someone who isn't a slobbering dickhead, but that is unlikely, as people like that are usually busy doing something useful.
It's just really about choices and priorities. How badly do you want it, what are you willing to sacrifice, how much of yourself are you willing to invest, what will it take? Until you know the answers to those questions, you won't even know if you actually want a relationship. For some reason a relationship has become an accessory, something you are just supposed to have, because it's apparently a criteria for success, but if you haven't even figured out if and why you actually want it, then what the fuck are you doing trying to hook up in the first place?
If chasing girls is something you absolutely want to do, if your quality of life would be vastly improved by finding a partner, then do it, and fucking commit. If you are not sure, if it's something that would be nice but really essential, then stop thinking about it and do something more productive. The worst possible option is the behaviour that is rife in this thread, a sort of twilight in between that gets nothing accomplished. It won't get you a girl because you won't confront yourself and your flaws with brutal honesty, won't go that extra mile and really put yourself in the firing line, and it saps your energy to do other things beacuse it sits in your head like a cancer.
If you want it, go for it, otherwise don't. And even If you don't, and instead focus on other things, nothing says you couldn't encounter someone interesting in the course of any random activity. Just make up your mind.
This is actually pretty good advice, and I came to a similar conclusion myself a few days ago.
The problem for me personally is that up until a year ago, I had spent basically all my 20s on college campuses so it was easy to meet girls. I'm still on a college campus, but it feels sort of weird being interested in the same age girls I was like 8 years ago. I'm also an employee now, so it kinda just puts me in a weird spot (even though I know a lot of faculty still mess around with the students).
The issue for me is that the only girls around my age that actually "aggressively" pursue me I feel are significantly below my standards. I'm not trying to be a douche, I'm just not attracted to them and feel they are way below my "league." It seems like all the decent women my age are taken, or the ones that aren't have an inflated sense of self-worth.
I started to realize the amount of mental and physical energy I would now have to put into trying to get someone around my age that I also felt was in my "league" and I simply came to the conclusion that I just don't give enough of a shit right now. Maybe my mind will change in a month, a year, 5 years, I don't know. Maybe I'll "settle" for either a younger girl or a girl that is below my standards. Right now, though, I know I'd be happier without them, and I don't want to put in the effort required to get what I really want right now. It just isn't worth it to me at this point.
Maybe that will change soon, but for now I'm just taking the easy road.
"or the ones that aren't have an inflated sense of self-worth." these sound exactly like you though
I don't really understand how I could act dominantly in a relationship without intrinsically disregarding the autonomy of my partner. I mean, unless the definition of "dominant" means nothing more than a tendency for bossiness, I don't really see how the relationship would be equitable. Perhaps I'm simply not attracted to push-over women, though.
On May 08 2013 21:38 McBengt wrote: The content is not without merit, but the article itself is piss-poor both in how it's written and how it presents its case. Whenever some self-styled guru like whoever wrote that announces that he will deliver "harsh truth" or a "reality check", it's usually just code for being a douchebag and overly negative/cynical. It would be very nice to have something with a similar message composed by someone who isn't a slobbering dickhead, but that is unlikely, as people like that are usually busy doing something useful.
It's just really about choices and priorities. How badly do you want it, what are you willing to sacrifice, how much of yourself are you willing to invest, what will it take? Until you know the answers to those questions, you won't even know if you actually want a relationship. For some reason a relationship has become an accessory, something you are just supposed to have, because it's apparently a criteria for success, but if you haven't even figured out if and why you actually want it, then what the fuck are you doing trying to hook up in the first place?
If chasing girls is something you absolutely want to do, if your quality of life would be vastly improved by finding a partner, then do it, and fucking commit. If you are not sure, if it's something that would be nice but really essential, then stop thinking about it and do something more productive. The worst possible option is the behaviour that is rife in this thread, a sort of twilight in between that gets nothing accomplished. It won't get you a girl because you won't confront yourself and your flaws with brutal honesty, won't go that extra mile and really put yourself in the firing line, and it saps your energy to do other things beacuse it sits in your head like a cancer.
If you want it, go for it, otherwise don't. And even If you don't, and instead focus on other things, nothing says you couldn't encounter someone interesting in the course of any random activity. Just make up your mind.
This is actually pretty good advice, and I came to a similar conclusion myself a few days ago.
The problem for me personally is that up until a year ago, I had spent basically all my 20s on college campuses so it was easy to meet girls. I'm still on a college campus, but it feels sort of weird being interested in the same age girls I was like 8 years ago. I'm also an employee now, so it kinda just puts me in a weird spot (even though I know a lot of faculty still mess around with the students).
The issue for me is that the only girls around my age that actually "aggressively" pursue me I feel are significantly below my standards. I'm not trying to be a douche, I'm just not attracted to them and feel they are way below my "league." It seems like all the decent women my age are taken, or the ones that aren't have an inflated sense of self-worth.
I started to realize the amount of mental and physical energy I would now have to put into trying to get someone around my age that I also felt was in my "league" and I simply came to the conclusion that I just don't give enough of a shit right now. Maybe my mind will change in a month, a year, 5 years, I don't know. Maybe I'll "settle" for either a younger girl or a girl that is below my standards. Right now, though, I know I'd be happier without them, and I don't want to put in the effort required to get what I really want right now. It just isn't worth it to me at this point.
Maybe that will change soon, but for now I'm just taking the easy road
.
You're not forced to meet people on your work place.
Argh, here I went and got all serious again, what have I done :S
As for the creepy guy with the college chicks, I can't really speak for that situation, I've only ever been attracted to crazy people, and not the good crazy, so for me the choice was easy.
I already wrote some pages ago about a girl ive been dating for like 6 months. Until we "broke up" because I made some mistakes... which is getting me down. If I would be given another chance I would do everything better.
Now, the thing is she keeps texting me here and there, like once or twice per week. Asking things like, if we meet at university or if I was the guy she just saw walking around the corner. Its nothing special shes asking but Im confused...
So now I´m pretty worried, I tried to get over her. But its difficult if she keeps texting me. Like I said its not often, like once/twice per week but still...
What to do now, are there any chances? Or should I decline having further contact?
On May 09 2013 03:02 JoeCool wrote: I already wrote some pages ago about a girl ive been dating for like 6 months. Until we "broke up" because I made some mistakes... which is getting me down. If I would be given another chance I would do everything better.
Now, the thing is she keeps texting me here and there, like once or twice per week. Asking things like, if we meet at university or if I was the guy she just saw walking around the corner. Its nothing special shes asking but Im confused...
So now I´m pretty worried, I tried to get over her. But its difficult if she keeps texting me. Like I said its not often, like once/twice per week but still...
What to do now, are there any chances? Or should I decline having further contact?
There are chances, but it's really up to you whether you want to maintain interaction or not. There aren't any particular rules in these sorts of cases.
"or the ones that aren't have an inflated sense of self-worth." these sound exactly like you though
It's all subjective I guess. You don't know anything about me so saying what my "self worth" is based on 0 information seems dumb. Maybe the girls who have an "inflated" sense of self worth have a lot of things going for them that I don't value, who knows. I at least have some information to judge them on, though (although usually not a lot).
On May 09 2013 02:43 rezoacken wrote:
You're not forced to meet people on your work place.
This is true, and that was sort of what I was trying to say. Before, just my environment provided plenty of opportunities to meet women, now that that is semi-not the case, I'm at the point where I'm unwilling to put in the extra effort to go find people outside my immediate environment.
On May 09 2013 02:49 McBengt wrote: Argh, here I went and got all serious again, what have I done :S
As for the creepy guy with the college chicks, I can't really speak for that situation, I've only ever been attracted to crazy people, and not the good crazy, so for me the choice was easy.
Not really sure what came across as "creepy" in NOT wanting to date someone 6-7 years younger than me. Perhaps you misunderstood what I wrote, or something odd is "creepy" to you.
I'm not really looking for specific advice at this point, more just killing time at work with this thread.
On May 09 2013 02:39 Shiori wrote: I don't really understand how I could act dominantly in a relationship without intrinsically disregarding the autonomy of my partner. I mean, unless the definition of "dominant" means nothing more than a tendency for bossiness, I don't really see how the relationship would be equitable. Perhaps I'm simply not attracted to push-over women, though.
It's hard to define or explain. I just asked my girlfriend "Why can I say 'make me food, slut' without you throwing me out of the window?", her answer:
"Cause you're making me chicken soup when I'm sick, don't stomp all over my feelings and always stop any nonsense when I get serious."
I think it's among the same idea as any "cocky/funny", just with lots of added trust and taken to the extreme. I'd actually call it similar to hitting your partner in a s/m or d/s context. It's consensual, there is trust, love and it's kept within consensual limits. From my experience women who are submissive in a relationship (or in the bedroom) are nothing but "push-over women" though. It's more that they have strong personalities and enjoy a man who breaks right through that, offering them to feel vulnerable and loved in the process.
It's a kind of respect for your significant other that transcends conventional definitions of the word. Respect isn't about what you call each other or enjoy in the bedroom, it's about regarding the other as a truely equal human being.
EPT
)
