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On September 23 2011 00:08 LEGIONzomg wrote:Show nested quote +On September 23 2011 00:04 JamesJohansen wrote:
I'd like to point out once again, that its unfair to harp on the death penalty simply because in rare cases, innocent men and women get punished by the judical system. This is something that needs to be blamed on the courts, the law enforcement, and others involved in prosecution.
Anyone with common sense can tell you that the death penalty (or really any punishment for that matter) should absolutely not be carried out unless it is beyond all reasonable doubt. There are issues where this doesnt happen, but for fucks sake look at all the times the system actually works and things play out this way.
What ever happened to Casey Anthony? Remember her? It wasn't beyond all reasonable doubt (And there was a fuckton of circumstantial evidence), and she got off. The system isn't a complete shitshow, it works most of the time but there are flaws just like in everything else in life. You can't explain this to people. People don't understand that NO system is 100% Flawless. It's hard to see that when apparently we're all Perfect human beings. You can explain it over and over but everyone always has that "but but if it's a 9/10 and not a 10/10 its flawed BOOO for that 1 time"
I don't think we'd be even having this debate if the execution system was 9/10. 1 out of 7 people on death row get their cases exonorated and we don't even know the amount of people wrongly executed (Such as Troy Davis likely was) but a conservative guess would be another 15%.
When something as deeply profound as execution sentences is likely getting it right only 7/10 of the time it needs to be retooled or just scrapped entirely.
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On September 23 2011 00:02 BlackFlag wrote:Show nested quote +On September 22 2011 23:53 Velr wrote:On September 22 2011 23:50 LEGIONzomg wrote:On September 22 2011 23:09 Doppelganger wrote:On September 22 2011 22:48 IrOnKaL wrote:
I feel that most people that are crazy enough to murder a fellow citizen will only end up doing it again if / when they get out of prison. And I think that it should be irrelevant what you feel about it. Furthermore, almost every person can be pushed to the brink by the circumstances and can turn into a murderer. You have nothing to base your feeling upon. There are serial killers and some killers/rapists that are bat shit crazy beyond help. That does however not mean that everyone is beyond help. Anyway in either case: a life long prison sentence should do the trick. Whether you like it or not I'm not paying for someone convicted of murderer to get a free ride through life. If you're willing to pay my portion of the taxes then I'll vote your way but that's only if you're ok with explaining your point of view to murder victims relatives. And you explain the same to the relatives of the unjustly convicted murderer that just got killed by your justice system... Maybe we should kill everyone in the world? This would be the cheapest, there would be no costs! Never again would there be any costs! I swear, I can't take people seriously who use the argument of "cost efficency" when the topic is human life.
The cost efficiency argument itself is also wrong. It is not necessarily cheaper to have death penalty. The numbers for death penalty cases are below. The racial bias in the death sentences is also apparent from those numbers.
Death Penalty Facts
I don't believe in death penalty both from a moral stand point as it festers an eye for an eye mentality and from a logical stand point as it is been shown to neither have a deterrent affect nor have a strong economic aspect. Also, the process itself is potentially ridden with bias. Compound to the fact, a death penalty sentence on an innocent man can never be reversed, I don't see any grounds justifying it.
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Death penalty, hmmm..
Yes. For the likes of Hitler, mass murderers and so on.
Even if somebody killed "just" one man, he should not be sentenced to death. Why? Because what should those who killed hundreds or thousands be penalized with? I believe, being in jail for many many years is something that is far worse than death, in some cases at least. Guy who killed a child? He will get it, he will die in that jail, physically and/or psychologically.
I do believe in vengeance however, and if anybody ever struck my family, I would retaliate, even if I would get my ass kicked or beat up. Doesn't matter.
Anyway, that's if I could decide.
But I accept the penalty system, I think death penalties are alright, depending on the situation.
But I would never support this sentence, for this man... Evidence is not there, "eyewitnesses were there", but not anymore...(hur dur?).
I don't understand the system at times (most of the times), and I surely won't ever understand how they can not see that this man doesn't deserve death penalty...'
that is all
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On September 23 2011 00:00 LEGIONzomg wrote:Show nested quote +On September 22 2011 23:50 Odal wrote:On September 22 2011 23:47 LEGIONzomg wrote:On September 22 2011 23:24 dakalro wrote:On September 22 2011 20:51 LEGIONzomg wrote:On September 22 2011 20:46 Cheerio wrote:
I think death penalty should be for doing something outrageous and where mistakes can be totally ruled out. Killing a cop under shady circumstances doesnt qualify. Shady doesn't mean innocent. Apparently he had shot someone else and Ballistics matched up with the other bullet from the cop. IF all you read was this article posted by the OP then I can see why it'd be shady... No, apparently the cops mixed up the bullets from the two shootings and placed them in the same evidence bag. And later declared they "fixed" that. There was no gun either for the cop shooting. The simple fact he kept saying he was innocent of the crime right as he was about to be murdered casts a very large doubt. People that kill once for stupid reasons don't deserve death. The psychopaths, sure, the ones that get angry or stupid can be rehabilitated (and don't tell me everyone that kills is a psychopath).
Killing for any other reason then Self Defense is a STUPID Reason...Killing is against the Law you do realize this right? Killing for a stupid Reason is AGAINST THE LAW. Was the guy doing it in self defense? No? It's Illegal. Plenty of studies show that one who gets "Rehabilitated" goes back into the world and recommits the crime whatever it may be. When you're working with numbers you go with the MAJORITY not the OMG BUT SOME PEOPLE DONT?! that's not how anything works in the world.. The fact of the matter is once convicted in 19 years if you cant come up with a credible reason why you are innocent then you 1) either did it or 2) Life hates you. All of you that claim this to be because he's black make me Lul at your credibility. Wanna stop Racism? Stop claiming everything to be Racist. Easy as that. Until you people stop claim racism every time you turn around it will never change. Don't be hypocritical and claim racism because the persons black when you're claiming EVERYONE else to be racist and judging us because we're another Race. You're all Ignorant and that annoys me. ..So you proved our point? That killing is wrong no matter what? The world should push towards being able to adequately rehabilitate murderers or punish them in a way that does not cause more deaths. No your point is not proven... You're apparently reading what you want but that's cool I can't help that. A Murderer should be killed for MANY Reasons. This is stuff you will not understand until you either know someone that was murdered close to you or you realize the Statistics of the topic. You do realize to keep a Murderer in Prison for a Life Sentence in some states is $130 a day per Life inmate. So you understand this I'll spell it out.. That's a $16.25 per hour 9-5 Job. That's double Minimum Wage+. Lets say the person convicted is 50 yrs old and lives to 85. That's $1,660,750 for that ONE person to live it out. In the states of $130 per day the Lethal Injection is $8,866 per Person. The Lethal Injection is supposed to be the MOST Humane form of Capital Punishment. So if you wanna go on Humane or Inhumane would you rather get a Lethal Injection or sit in a Cell for 35 Yrs and hope you don't get Raped/Murdered. I'd choose Injection. I'd rather Kill one Person that Killed Two then Risk the chances(btw that show adequate evidence on rehabilitated Convicts end up COMMITTING the SAME Crime Over again) of them getting out and Killing Several more. Makes sense to me. I don't see how you think otherwise.
Actually it is more expensive to execute someone than put him in prison for life. Court costs and the many rounds of appeals really add up. And I wonder who pays it since most murderers are kinda strapped for cash... oh yeah the public
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On September 23 2011 00:15 Ansinjunger wrote:Show nested quote +On September 23 2011 00:02 LEGIONzomg wrote:On September 22 2011 23:53 Velr wrote:On September 22 2011 23:50 LEGIONzomg wrote:On September 22 2011 23:09 Doppelganger wrote:On September 22 2011 22:48 IrOnKaL wrote:
I feel that most people that are crazy enough to murder a fellow citizen will only end up doing it again if / when they get out of prison. And I think that it should be irrelevant what you feel about it. Furthermore, almost every person can be pushed to the brink by the circumstances and can turn into a murderer. You have nothing to base your feeling upon. There are serial killers and some killers/rapists that are bat shit crazy beyond help. That does however not mean that everyone is beyond help. Anyway in either case: a life long prison sentence should do the trick. Whether you like it or not I'm not paying for someone convicted of murderer to get a free ride through life. If you're willing to pay my portion of the taxes then I'll vote your way but that's only if you're ok with explaining your point of view to murder victims relatives. And you explain the same to the relatives of the unjustly convicted murderer that just got killed by your justice system... I would rather Later find out that we made a mistake and explain that then have to explain "Oh hey remember that guy that murdered your Daughter? We let him go and now he's murdered your Son.. Our Bad." So you'd rather the blood be on your hands than another person's? That may sound commendable in some strange way, but it's certainly not what I'd prefer. Besides, what are the circumstances of "we let him go?" There are these things called life sentences. If a jury "let's him go," and he was guilty, that has more to do with incompetent police work, lack of evidence, or good old dishonest lawyers working the system, etc. It's also rather known that prison sucks. I'd hardly call it a free ride. It's simply humane not to starve people, murderers or not. If you haven't heard of Ron Williamson or read John Grisham's The Innocent Man, I highly suggest it. That particular book is non fiction and tells the story of a real person who was wrongly convicted of murder and his life was ruined after he was sent to death row. It also shows the horrors of solitary confinement. A picture of the man when he was 47 looked like he was 80 and invalid. I always thought that was a dramatization of books like A Tale of Two Cities, but it's actually possible. The book has the pictures.
Blood is on your hands one way or another. If he's not convicted then why're we giving him a Life in Prison? Your statement seems to be contradicting itself but I'm probably just tired honestly so forgive me if it is just me. Humane never has a set in stone definition in peoples eyes. Something that's Humane to you might not be humane to me. Humane or not I couldn't care less. The Death Penalty is here and is not Tossed Around very highly. since 1971 there's been 1182 Death Sentences in 2010 I believe. You guys act like the Death Sentence is given for EVERYTHING. Rapist don't get the Death Sentence. Murderers get it. Murdering is Inhumane itself so I don't see people point about the Death Sentence not being humane.
You are aware that there are studies of people admitting to getting thrown back into prison because once they're out they no longer can coupe to the life style of providing for themselves and others. So yes some people actually consider the Prison Life over the outside. Crazy as that sounds its a true statement.
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On September 23 2011 00:21 Geosensation wrote:Show nested quote +On September 23 2011 00:00 LEGIONzomg wrote:On September 22 2011 23:50 Odal wrote:On September 22 2011 23:47 LEGIONzomg wrote:On September 22 2011 23:24 dakalro wrote:On September 22 2011 20:51 LEGIONzomg wrote:On September 22 2011 20:46 Cheerio wrote:
I think death penalty should be for doing something outrageous and where mistakes can be totally ruled out. Killing a cop under shady circumstances doesnt qualify. Shady doesn't mean innocent. Apparently he had shot someone else and Ballistics matched up with the other bullet from the cop. IF all you read was this article posted by the OP then I can see why it'd be shady... No, apparently the cops mixed up the bullets from the two shootings and placed them in the same evidence bag. And later declared they "fixed" that. There was no gun either for the cop shooting. The simple fact he kept saying he was innocent of the crime right as he was about to be murdered casts a very large doubt. People that kill once for stupid reasons don't deserve death. The psychopaths, sure, the ones that get angry or stupid can be rehabilitated (and don't tell me everyone that kills is a psychopath).
Killing for any other reason then Self Defense is a STUPID Reason...Killing is against the Law you do realize this right? Killing for a stupid Reason is AGAINST THE LAW. Was the guy doing it in self defense? No? It's Illegal. Plenty of studies show that one who gets "Rehabilitated" goes back into the world and recommits the crime whatever it may be. When you're working with numbers you go with the MAJORITY not the OMG BUT SOME PEOPLE DONT?! that's not how anything works in the world.. The fact of the matter is once convicted in 19 years if you cant come up with a credible reason why you are innocent then you 1) either did it or 2) Life hates you. All of you that claim this to be because he's black make me Lul at your credibility. Wanna stop Racism? Stop claiming everything to be Racist. Easy as that. Until you people stop claim racism every time you turn around it will never change. Don't be hypocritical and claim racism because the persons black when you're claiming EVERYONE else to be racist and judging us because we're another Race. You're all Ignorant and that annoys me. ..So you proved our point? That killing is wrong no matter what? The world should push towards being able to adequately rehabilitate murderers or punish them in a way that does not cause more deaths. No your point is not proven... You're apparently reading what you want but that's cool I can't help that. A Murderer should be killed for MANY Reasons. This is stuff you will not understand until you either know someone that was murdered close to you or you realize the Statistics of the topic. You do realize to keep a Murderer in Prison for a Life Sentence in some states is $130 a day per Life inmate. So you understand this I'll spell it out.. That's a $16.25 per hour 9-5 Job. That's double Minimum Wage+. Lets say the person convicted is 50 yrs old and lives to 85. That's $1,660,750 for that ONE person to live it out. In the states of $130 per day the Lethal Injection is $8,866 per Person. The Lethal Injection is supposed to be the MOST Humane form of Capital Punishment. So if you wanna go on Humane or Inhumane would you rather get a Lethal Injection or sit in a Cell for 35 Yrs and hope you don't get Raped/Murdered. I'd choose Injection. I'd rather Kill one Person that Killed Two then Risk the chances(btw that show adequate evidence on rehabilitated Convicts end up COMMITTING the SAME Crime Over again) of them getting out and Killing Several more. Makes sense to me. I don't see how you think otherwise. Actually it is more expensive to execute someone than put him in prison for life. Court costs and the many rounds of appeals really add up. And I wonder who pays it since most murderers are kinda strapped for cash... oh yeah the public
You give me actual Statistics instead of your Hear Say and I'll listen? ktybye
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On September 23 2011 00:26 LEGIONzomg wrote:Show nested quote +On September 23 2011 00:21 Geosensation wrote:On September 23 2011 00:00 LEGIONzomg wrote:On September 22 2011 23:50 Odal wrote:On September 22 2011 23:47 LEGIONzomg wrote:On September 22 2011 23:24 dakalro wrote:On September 22 2011 20:51 LEGIONzomg wrote:On September 22 2011 20:46 Cheerio wrote:
I think death penalty should be for doing something outrageous and where mistakes can be totally ruled out. Killing a cop under shady circumstances doesnt qualify. Shady doesn't mean innocent. Apparently he had shot someone else and Ballistics matched up with the other bullet from the cop. IF all you read was this article posted by the OP then I can see why it'd be shady... No, apparently the cops mixed up the bullets from the two shootings and placed them in the same evidence bag. And later declared they "fixed" that. There was no gun either for the cop shooting. The simple fact he kept saying he was innocent of the crime right as he was about to be murdered casts a very large doubt. People that kill once for stupid reasons don't deserve death. The psychopaths, sure, the ones that get angry or stupid can be rehabilitated (and don't tell me everyone that kills is a psychopath).
Killing for any other reason then Self Defense is a STUPID Reason...Killing is against the Law you do realize this right? Killing for a stupid Reason is AGAINST THE LAW. Was the guy doing it in self defense? No? It's Illegal. Plenty of studies show that one who gets "Rehabilitated" goes back into the world and recommits the crime whatever it may be. When you're working with numbers you go with the MAJORITY not the OMG BUT SOME PEOPLE DONT?! that's not how anything works in the world.. The fact of the matter is once convicted in 19 years if you cant come up with a credible reason why you are innocent then you 1) either did it or 2) Life hates you. All of you that claim this to be because he's black make me Lul at your credibility. Wanna stop Racism? Stop claiming everything to be Racist. Easy as that. Until you people stop claim racism every time you turn around it will never change. Don't be hypocritical and claim racism because the persons black when you're claiming EVERYONE else to be racist and judging us because we're another Race. You're all Ignorant and that annoys me. ..So you proved our point? That killing is wrong no matter what? The world should push towards being able to adequately rehabilitate murderers or punish them in a way that does not cause more deaths. No your point is not proven... You're apparently reading what you want but that's cool I can't help that. A Murderer should be killed for MANY Reasons. This is stuff you will not understand until you either know someone that was murdered close to you or you realize the Statistics of the topic. You do realize to keep a Murderer in Prison for a Life Sentence in some states is $130 a day per Life inmate. So you understand this I'll spell it out.. That's a $16.25 per hour 9-5 Job. That's double Minimum Wage+. Lets say the person convicted is 50 yrs old and lives to 85. That's $1,660,750 for that ONE person to live it out. In the states of $130 per day the Lethal Injection is $8,866 per Person. The Lethal Injection is supposed to be the MOST Humane form of Capital Punishment. So if you wanna go on Humane or Inhumane would you rather get a Lethal Injection or sit in a Cell for 35 Yrs and hope you don't get Raped/Murdered. I'd choose Injection. I'd rather Kill one Person that Killed Two then Risk the chances(btw that show adequate evidence on rehabilitated Convicts end up COMMITTING the SAME Crime Over again) of them getting out and Killing Several more. Makes sense to me. I don't see how you think otherwise. Actually it is more expensive to execute someone than put him in prison for life. Court costs and the many rounds of appeals really add up. And I wonder who pays it since most murderers are kinda strapped for cash... oh yeah the public You give me actual Statistics instead of your Hear Say and I'll listen? ktybye
Are you seriously saying that the price of either solution is relevant to the discussion? We're not living in the fucking wild west anymore, you cannot set a price for a human life goddamit...
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On September 23 2011 00:26 LEGIONzomg wrote:Show nested quote +On September 23 2011 00:21 Geosensation wrote:On September 23 2011 00:00 LEGIONzomg wrote:On September 22 2011 23:50 Odal wrote:On September 22 2011 23:47 LEGIONzomg wrote:On September 22 2011 23:24 dakalro wrote:On September 22 2011 20:51 LEGIONzomg wrote:On September 22 2011 20:46 Cheerio wrote:
I think death penalty should be for doing something outrageous and where mistakes can be totally ruled out. Killing a cop under shady circumstances doesnt qualify. Shady doesn't mean innocent. Apparently he had shot someone else and Ballistics matched up with the other bullet from the cop. IF all you read was this article posted by the OP then I can see why it'd be shady... No, apparently the cops mixed up the bullets from the two shootings and placed them in the same evidence bag. And later declared they "fixed" that. There was no gun either for the cop shooting. The simple fact he kept saying he was innocent of the crime right as he was about to be murdered casts a very large doubt. People that kill once for stupid reasons don't deserve death. The psychopaths, sure, the ones that get angry or stupid can be rehabilitated (and don't tell me everyone that kills is a psychopath).
Killing for any other reason then Self Defense is a STUPID Reason...Killing is against the Law you do realize this right? Killing for a stupid Reason is AGAINST THE LAW. Was the guy doing it in self defense? No? It's Illegal. Plenty of studies show that one who gets "Rehabilitated" goes back into the world and recommits the crime whatever it may be. When you're working with numbers you go with the MAJORITY not the OMG BUT SOME PEOPLE DONT?! that's not how anything works in the world.. The fact of the matter is once convicted in 19 years if you cant come up with a credible reason why you are innocent then you 1) either did it or 2) Life hates you. All of you that claim this to be because he's black make me Lul at your credibility. Wanna stop Racism? Stop claiming everything to be Racist. Easy as that. Until you people stop claim racism every time you turn around it will never change. Don't be hypocritical and claim racism because the persons black when you're claiming EVERYONE else to be racist and judging us because we're another Race. You're all Ignorant and that annoys me. ..So you proved our point? That killing is wrong no matter what? The world should push towards being able to adequately rehabilitate murderers or punish them in a way that does not cause more deaths. No your point is not proven... You're apparently reading what you want but that's cool I can't help that. A Murderer should be killed for MANY Reasons. This is stuff you will not understand until you either know someone that was murdered close to you or you realize the Statistics of the topic. You do realize to keep a Murderer in Prison for a Life Sentence in some states is $130 a day per Life inmate. So you understand this I'll spell it out.. That's a $16.25 per hour 9-5 Job. That's double Minimum Wage+. Lets say the person convicted is 50 yrs old and lives to 85. That's $1,660,750 for that ONE person to live it out. In the states of $130 per day the Lethal Injection is $8,866 per Person. The Lethal Injection is supposed to be the MOST Humane form of Capital Punishment. So if you wanna go on Humane or Inhumane would you rather get a Lethal Injection or sit in a Cell for 35 Yrs and hope you don't get Raped/Murdered. I'd choose Injection. I'd rather Kill one Person that Killed Two then Risk the chances(btw that show adequate evidence on rehabilitated Convicts end up COMMITTING the SAME Crime Over again) of them getting out and Killing Several more. Makes sense to me. I don't see how you think otherwise. Actually it is more expensive to execute someone than put him in prison for life. Court costs and the many rounds of appeals really add up. And I wonder who pays it since most murderers are kinda strapped for cash... oh yeah the public You give me actual Statistics instead of your Hear Say and I'll listen? ktybye
It is not like you were giving statistics/sources when you were flaunting numbers in some of the previous few pages. But I will humor you and provide you with multiple studies and numbers about death penalty cost analysis. Though, I doubt you will read it and revert back to your Hammurabi's 'code of laws' argument now that you cost argument has been negated.
1. Kansas Study
2. Paper about death penalty costs
3. Comprehensive Article with multiple studies linked
In any case, I find it even sadder that you have to hide behind an alt account since you are too scared to stand up for you believe in on your main account (considering this account was made today only to post in this thread).
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On September 22 2011 23:42 JamesJohansen wrote:
The act of taking another's life is a crime that deserves the most serious punishment.
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Sorry, I support the death penalty
You are aware of the paradox situation you are in?
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On September 23 2011 01:03 Nachtwind wrote:Show nested quote +On September 22 2011 23:42 JamesJohansen wrote:
The act of taking another's life is a crime that deserves the most serious punishment.
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Sorry, I support the death penalty You are aware of the paradox situation you are in?
Ok, I actually oppose the death penalty for a variety of reasons, but this is such a common argument and so bad an argument that I have to say something. Being against murder and yet for the death penalty is no more a contradiction than being for jail as punishment yet still against kidnapping. Everything you could possibly propose as a punishment for doing something illegal is (almost by definition) something that should (and is) illegal to do normally. There's no contradiction, paradox, hypocracy, etc.
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On September 23 2011 01:11 aristarchus wrote:Show nested quote +On September 23 2011 01:03 Nachtwind wrote:On September 22 2011 23:42 JamesJohansen wrote:
The act of taking another's life is a crime that deserves the most serious punishment.
.......
Sorry, I support the death penalty You are aware of the paradox situation you are in? Ok, I actually oppose the death penalty for a variety of reasons, but this is such a common argument and so bad an argument that I have to say something. Being against murder and yet for the death penalty is no more a contradiction than being for jail as punishment yet still against kidnapping. Everything you could possibly propose as a punishment for doing something illegal is (almost by definition) something that should (and is) illegal to do normally. There's no contradiction, paradox, hypocracy, etc.
Okay... kidnapping and jail is the same you say... ok.... wait... You are complete right and i dont know why i talk with people about obvious shit in the internet.. if you US want thet death penalty. FINE.. not my problem bye
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konadora
Singapore66163 Posts
On September 22 2011 10:48 HellRoxYa wrote:
I prefer a system based on rehabilitation rather than vengance. It tends to foster a gentler society, ie. more trust between people, less violence, etc.
As such the death penalty can never be good, and the US system is bad in general as it seems to put high values on vengance.
Singapore has death penalties for even the most minor of drug offenses. Simple possession of drugs above a few grams will get you hanged.
Result? Singapore has been 99.99+% drug-free, with the very few passed around in nightclubs.
Death penality is also given to murderers. A recent case where a few youths stabbed another to death had initially landed the criminals in death sentence, though it was reduced to 4 years in prison for rioting (lolwut?). Thing is, the people in Singapore have actually called for the sentence to be increased (despite the criminals being teens) to life imprisonment without pardon to even, yes you guessed it, death sentences.
I think it does a pretty damn good job in deterring people from committing crimes.
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On September 23 2011 00:45 Eternalmisfit wrote:Show nested quote +On September 23 2011 00:26 LEGIONzomg wrote:On September 23 2011 00:21 Geosensation wrote:On September 23 2011 00:00 LEGIONzomg wrote:On September 22 2011 23:50 Odal wrote:On September 22 2011 23:47 LEGIONzomg wrote:On September 22 2011 23:24 dakalro wrote:On September 22 2011 20:51 LEGIONzomg wrote:On September 22 2011 20:46 Cheerio wrote:
I think death penalty should be for doing something outrageous and where mistakes can be totally ruled out. Killing a cop under shady circumstances doesnt qualify. Shady doesn't mean innocent. Apparently he had shot someone else and Ballistics matched up with the other bullet from the cop. IF all you read was this article posted by the OP then I can see why it'd be shady... No, apparently the cops mixed up the bullets from the two shootings and placed them in the same evidence bag. And later declared they "fixed" that. There was no gun either for the cop shooting. The simple fact he kept saying he was innocent of the crime right as he was about to be murdered casts a very large doubt. People that kill once for stupid reasons don't deserve death. The psychopaths, sure, the ones that get angry or stupid can be rehabilitated (and don't tell me everyone that kills is a psychopath).
Killing for any other reason then Self Defense is a STUPID Reason...Killing is against the Law you do realize this right? Killing for a stupid Reason is AGAINST THE LAW. Was the guy doing it in self defense? No? It's Illegal. Plenty of studies show that one who gets "Rehabilitated" goes back into the world and recommits the crime whatever it may be. When you're working with numbers you go with the MAJORITY not the OMG BUT SOME PEOPLE DONT?! that's not how anything works in the world.. The fact of the matter is once convicted in 19 years if you cant come up with a credible reason why you are innocent then you 1) either did it or 2) Life hates you. All of you that claim this to be because he's black make me Lul at your credibility. Wanna stop Racism? Stop claiming everything to be Racist. Easy as that. Until you people stop claim racism every time you turn around it will never change. Don't be hypocritical and claim racism because the persons black when you're claiming EVERYONE else to be racist and judging us because we're another Race. You're all Ignorant and that annoys me. ..So you proved our point? That killing is wrong no matter what? The world should push towards being able to adequately rehabilitate murderers or punish them in a way that does not cause more deaths. No your point is not proven... You're apparently reading what you want but that's cool I can't help that. A Murderer should be killed for MANY Reasons. This is stuff you will not understand until you either know someone that was murdered close to you or you realize the Statistics of the topic. You do realize to keep a Murderer in Prison for a Life Sentence in some states is $130 a day per Life inmate. So you understand this I'll spell it out.. That's a $16.25 per hour 9-5 Job. That's double Minimum Wage+. Lets say the person convicted is 50 yrs old and lives to 85. That's $1,660,750 for that ONE person to live it out. In the states of $130 per day the Lethal Injection is $8,866 per Person. The Lethal Injection is supposed to be the MOST Humane form of Capital Punishment. So if you wanna go on Humane or Inhumane would you rather get a Lethal Injection or sit in a Cell for 35 Yrs and hope you don't get Raped/Murdered. I'd choose Injection. I'd rather Kill one Person that Killed Two then Risk the chances(btw that show adequate evidence on rehabilitated Convicts end up COMMITTING the SAME Crime Over again) of them getting out and Killing Several more. Makes sense to me. I don't see how you think otherwise. Actually it is more expensive to execute someone than put him in prison for life. Court costs and the many rounds of appeals really add up. And I wonder who pays it since most murderers are kinda strapped for cash... oh yeah the public You give me actual Statistics instead of your Hear Say and I'll listen? ktybye It is not like you were giving statistics/sources when you were flaunting numbers in some of the previous few pages. But I will humor you and provide you with multiple studies and numbers about death penalty cost analysis. Though, I doubt you will read it and revert back to your Hammurabi's 'code of laws' argument now that you cost argument has been negated. 1. Kansas Study2. Paper about death penalty costs3. Comprehensive Article with multiple studies linkedIn any case, I find it even sadder that you have to hide behind an alt account since you are too scared to stand up for you believe in on your main account (considering this account was made today only to post in this thread).
Disclaimer: I wasn't the guy who wanted statistics, I already knew about death row expenses.
Just want to point out that this is a shitty arguement for debating against capitol punishment because the reason its so expensive is because of all the beaurocratic bullshit that goes with it. The actual process should be much cheaper.
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On September 23 2011 01:15 Nachtwind wrote:Show nested quote +On September 23 2011 01:11 aristarchus wrote:On September 23 2011 01:03 Nachtwind wrote:On September 22 2011 23:42 JamesJohansen wrote:
The act of taking another's life is a crime that deserves the most serious punishment.
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Sorry, I support the death penalty You are aware of the paradox situation you are in? Ok, I actually oppose the death penalty for a variety of reasons, but this is such a common argument and so bad an argument that I have to say something. Being against murder and yet for the death penalty is no more a contradiction than being for jail as punishment yet still against kidnapping. Everything you could possibly propose as a punishment for doing something illegal is (almost by definition) something that should (and is) illegal to do normally. There's no contradiction, paradox, hypocracy, etc. Okay... kidnapping and jail is the same you say... ok.... wait... You are complete right and i dont know why i talk with people about obvious shit in the internet.. if you US want thet death penalty. FINE.. not my problem bye
How are they different? Someone forcibly removes you from wherever it is you want to be and puts you in a small room with no right to leave. If I took you and put you in my own "jail", that would be kidnapping. The only difference is that "kidnapping" is when someone just randomly does it, and "jail" is when the state does it after a (hopefully) fair trial. And we're all ok with that.
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On September 23 2011 00:25 LEGIONzomg wrote:
You are aware that there are studies of people admitting to getting thrown back into prison because once they're out they no longer can coupe to the life style of providing for themselves and others. So yes some people actually consider the Prison Life over the outside. Crazy as that sounds its a true statement.
That is not by their choice though. Take any person and put them in 1 small enclosed place with a very strict and routine day for 30 years and you will not be able to adjust to life outside simply because it is so different. It is not because they "like" prison life more (although there are probably going to be a few that truly do), its just because that life has become their world and they can't change afterwards.
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The death penalty has its place. I believe if we actually used it more often we could drop the crime rate in the U.S dramatically. It may not be "fair" for the "murderers" but it would save the life of innocent people who haven't been killed YET.
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the death penalty is less torture and less detrimental to society than prisons.
so I'm for it.
We either have to argue that prisons successfully rehabilitate (they don't when you consider people sit in there 8-25 years stewing on their same thoughts over and over like an obsessive compulsive, never getting good treatment and positive results, but being in gang wars and abused by guards, Im sure that helps them so much), or that they don't and leave us worse off for peopel that are in for most of their lives, and it would be more compassionate to kill them outright.
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United States5162 Posts
On September 23 2011 01:36 TangJuice wrote:Show nested quote +On September 23 2011 00:25 LEGIONzomg wrote:
You are aware that there are studies of people admitting to getting thrown back into prison because once they're out they no longer can coupe to the life style of providing for themselves and others. So yes some people actually consider the Prison Life over the outside. Crazy as that sounds its a true statement. That is not by their choice though. Take any person and put them in 1 small enclosed place with a very strict and routine day for 30 years and you will not be able to adjust to life outside simply because it is so different. It is not because they "like" prison life more (although there are probably going to be a few that truly do), its just because that life has become their world and they can't change afterwards.
This is way too true. Once convicts are released from prison they're thrown out on the street and told 'Bye now, hope you have someone to help ya out'. It's no surprise that ex-cons often commit more crimes when once they get out of jail - they're in an even worse place then they were when they entered jail. Combined with the fact jails are cutting education and work-related training, and getting a job as an ex-con is near impossible, do people really wonder why ex-cons often return to the life that got them in trouble to begin with, one that usually started due to poor education and a lack of opportunity in the first place?
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On September 23 2011 01:48 ch0sen wrote:
The death penalty has its place. I believe if we actually used it more often we could drop the crime rate in the U.S dramatically. It may not be "fair" for the "murderers" but it would save the life of innocent people who haven't been killed YET.
Except every single study has proven that death penalty didn't help jack shit for reducing murders. Do you feel proud of living in a place where people are getting killed by the community? I wouldn't.
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On September 23 2011 01:53 Myles wrote:Show nested quote +On September 23 2011 01:36 TangJuice wrote:On September 23 2011 00:25 LEGIONzomg wrote:
You are aware that there are studies of people admitting to getting thrown back into prison because once they're out they no longer can coupe to the life style of providing for themselves and others. So yes some people actually consider the Prison Life over the outside. Crazy as that sounds its a true statement. That is not by their choice though. Take any person and put them in 1 small enclosed place with a very strict and routine day for 30 years and you will not be able to adjust to life outside simply because it is so different. It is not because they "like" prison life more (although there are probably going to be a few that truly do), its just because that life has become their world and they can't change afterwards. This is way too true. Once convicts are released from prison they're thrown out on the street and told 'Bye now, hope you have someone to help ya out'. It's no surprise that ex-cons often commit more crimes when once they get out of jail - they're in an even worse place then they were when they entered jail. Combined with the fact jails are cutting education and work-related training, and getting a job as an ex-con is near impossible, do people really wonder why ex-cons often return to the life that got them in trouble to begin with, one that usually started due to poor education and a lack of opportunity in the first place?
becoming a "convicted felon" is a death sentence, whether slow by being released, or fast by being killed under "death penalty" laws.
If people are considered to have paid their dues to society for what they did, they should not have to reveal their felon status to employers who will automatically deny them a job.
if people are considered to have paid their dues, they should not have to tell everyone about their past.
therefore, convicted felons, we have to say, have not paid their dues, and must suffer a long life of no job, no hope, and no future, IF they are released.
Yep, its real fair.
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EPT
