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sunprince
United States2258 Posts
On September 19 2011 11:42 MattBarry wrote: But abortions really get people worked up for some reason. Abortion is not the issue here. Child support is. The only link is that men have no longer have control over women's bodies and cannot usually effectively compel abortions, which is a good thing, but now have to take 'responsibility' for something beyond their control. | ||
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vol_
Australia1608 Posts
You brought a life into the world you better fucking take care of it. It is too easy for people to get out of child support. I know from self experience and lived on the street for 3 months because on our version of wellfare my mother couldn't afford to take care of 2 kids while multi millionaire father was getting remarried and buying a mansion on the waterfront. My younger brother had to drop out of school and start work at the age of 14 illegally to survive. The selfishness of some people when it comes to their own children fucking disgust me. Obviously it is a completely different story if the woman somehow got a hold of your semen and impregnated herself, but if you fucked her without a rubber too bad. E: wow got a bit worked up with that but its something that hits home with me. If anyone knows of any ways I can contribute to the cause of child support please pm me | ||
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PrideNeverDie
United States319 Posts
On September 19 2011 12:05 vol_ wrote: There needs to be more strict laws and ways to enforce child support payments. You brought a life into the world you better fucking take care of it. It is too easy for people to get out of child support. I know from self experience and lived on the street for 3 months because on our version of wellfare my mother couldn't afford to take care of 2 kids while multi millionaire father was getting remarried and buying a mansion on the waterfront. My younger brother had to drop out of school and start work at the age of 14 illegally to survive. The selfishness of some people when it comes to their own children fucking disgust me. Obviously it is a completely different story if the woman somehow got a hold of your semen and impregnated herself, but if you fucked her without a rubber too bad. E: wow got a bit worked up with that but its something that hits home with me. If anyone knows of any ways I can contribute to the cause of child support please pm me what are the child support laws in australia? why wasn't your father forced to pay child support payments? how did he get out of child support? i'd like to learn more about your situation. i thought australia had good welfare programs. how come you weren't being taken care of by government programs? | ||
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Perdac Curall
242 Posts
On September 19 2011 10:56 PrideNeverDie wrote: is this the same real world where women can have sex but aren't held responsible for their own actions by aborting their child everytime they get pregnant? abortion relieves women of the financial obligations of having a child as well as the responsibility of being ready and willing to take care of a child before having sex. the only thing that is being proposed is relief of court-ordered financial obligations with the threat of jailtime for men. I don't think abortions are a good thing either! Personally if I got a girl pregnant I would do everything in my power to stop her from having an abortion, including offering to take care of it myself if she didn't want to. I am totally for jailtime for deadbeat fathers who can't take enough responsibility in life to pay child support. If you are responsible for another life in this world and you skip out on that responsibility you cannot call yourself a man. Anyone who would do that to their child deserves to have the law come after them. It is sad that you have to have the law force the boys of this world to own up and be men but if that's what's needed to get some deadbeats to take care of their own kids I have no sympathy for them. | ||
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numLoCK
Canada1416 Posts
On September 19 2011 12:18 Perdac Curall wrote: I don't think abortions are a good thing either! Personally if I got a girl pregnant I would do everything in my power to stop her from having an abortion, including offering to take care of it myself if she didn't want to. I am totally for jailtime for deadbeat fathers who can't take enough responsibility in life to pay child support. If you are responsible for another life in this world and you skip out on that responsibility you cannot call yourself a man. Anyone who would do that to their child deserves to have the law come after them. It is sad that you have to have the law force the boys of this world to own up and be men but if that's what's needed to get some deadbeats to take care of their own kids I have no sympathy for them. Your attitude is a clear example of what is wrong with this situation. "Deadbeat father" is the term you use to describe a man who decides not to take care of a child he never consented to have. What term should we use to describe a woman who decides to have a child that she cannot financially support? I also detest the attitude that a man must sacrifice himself for others in order to be a real man. We are striving for an age of equality between men and women, so lets stop it with that bullshit. | ||
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Perdac Curall
242 Posts
On September 19 2011 11:24 sunprince wrote: That site is BS. The scientific consensus is that population growth is a major problem. The InterAcademy Panel Statement on Population Growth already concluded this 17 years ago. A bunch of British scientists got together in the 1900s and concluded "scientifically" that the earth was overpopulated as well. It was called the science of eugenics. It was oligarchal Malthusian thinking when Giammaria Ortes set the "carrying capacity" of the planet at 3 billion people in 1790, it was Malthusian when it was called eugenics, and it is Malthusian today. Nevermind the fact that mankind can use his creative mind to overcome resource constraints, the population statistics themselves prove the fallacy of overpopulation. There is no major country or region on earth today that is predicted to have a birth rate of 2.1 or above by 2050, and that includes India and China. Europe's birthrate is as low as 1.3 in some countries already, and averages around 1.7. World population is estimated to stabilize around 9 billion and then begin to decline over the next 5 decades. There is absolutely no population crisis. | ||
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yandere991
Australia394 Posts
On September 19 2011 11:14 Demonhunter04 wrote: What is the justification for this? Quite simple. The large baby boomer generation is going to retire soon and with their god damn low birth rates there's going to be a relatively large amount of pensioners and a relatively low amount of workers to support them. An upside down population pyramid that will fuck up the economy. Superannuation might alleviate some of this. | ||
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BlazeFury01
United States1460 Posts
On September 19 2011 11:02 mcmartini wrote: I only have view of this from a child's point of view, (my parents split when i was quite young due to my mother being with someone else) I spent equal time with both my mother and father for the next 10 years. Yet my father was the one paying child support for all that time. That still seems hardly fair to me, he looked after us 50% of the time. Both my parents had jobs, what reason was there for child support to be paid, my father hadn't done anything wrong yet was left paying money out for over 10 years (I have younger siblings) leaving him financially crippled. I have always thought that the system for such things in my country was flawed and still do. If one parent ups and leaves they are making the choice right there saying they don't need nor want their partners support (most times they take the children for 100% of the time). Yet they still wish to reap the benefits of their partners success. I hate reading all this you choose to have sex so you have to deal with the consequences. Well one apparently responsible adult chose to leave another for whatever reason, if they can't afford to look after their child alone because of financial woes maybe the child should go into foster care. Most times I have seen friends and family split up child support has been wanted just because they can, not because it is needed. Well, you may hate reading and hearing about the consequences part but it's true. It's also frustrating when women abuse the child support for their own personal gain. With that said, you have opened up my eyes to believe that women should have the same amount of money drafted from their account by the government and put into a savings fund that's assigned to a trustee and the child can only activate the account when he/shes fatherly child support expires (at the age of 18). Women should also send receipts to the government of the child support funds (provided by the father) showing that they spent 100% of the funds for the kids best interest. | ||
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vol_
Australia1608 Posts
On September 19 2011 12:16 PrideNeverDie wrote: what are the child support laws in australia? why wasn't your father forced to pay child support payments? how did he get out of child support? i'd like to learn more about your situation. i thought australia had good welfare programs. how come you weren't being taken care of by government programs? He moved and we don't know his address. The CSA (Child support Agency) keeps asking us for his address and we don't know it, and they say they can't find him. His side of the family knows where he is but won't tell us. We can't afford to talk to a lawyer who is any good so I dont know wtf to do. I was on a waiting list for housing the whole 3 months I was living on the street, I was 17. I applied for my own welfare but they didn't give me shit because I needed both parents to sign some bullshit. I stole food and clothing and eventually got a job. | ||
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Klipsys
United States1533 Posts
And I just want to make this abundantly clear: Children are absolutely awful creatures. They simply exist to consume. This nonsense about them being special and innocent is nonsense. That's just malarkey thought up by the progenitors of these little monsters to make themselves feel better about the absolute wreck there life is in now because of this human being you're not growing as a pet. This applies to about 90% of kids. There are some kids which are great, polite, intelligent and generally enjoyable to be around, but they get picked on by the neanderthal majority in high-school and turn into serial killers. I'm speaking from experience here, I was a terrible child to my father now that i think about it, and I Honestly have no idea why he even bothered. | ||
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vol_
Australia1608 Posts
On September 19 2011 13:03 Klipsys wrote: This thread is a prime example of why I never want children. A wise move if you don't want to pay for them. Many innocent children the world over would have been spared suffering if their dumbass parents were smart enough to not have children  | ||
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BarbieHsu
574 Posts
in the end it's really for the best interests of the chlid. woman gives time, guy gives money. or course some cases are unfair. judges tend to be more sympathetic to the woman. that's because in case of doubt, it's better to err on the side of too much child support than too little. | ||
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BarbieHsu
574 Posts
On September 19 2011 09:12 Mentalizor wrote: What is this? The bible-belt? For alot of people sex has more to do with love, intimicy, fun, feelings and the occasional drunk blunder than it has to do with parenting - and personally I feel this is great. I've been with my GF for 6years now. I'm still not ready to father her child, but should I just NOT have sex with her? Sex is the single most amazing experience when it's with a person you love. And I have told her several times, that at the moment I do not wish to be a father - and she somehow cheated with birthcontrol (skipped pills, made holly condoms or w/e this thread has come up with) would it then be MY responsibility - when I've already clearly told her on what conditions I'm having sex? It is HER actions... Or even without the messing around with birthcontrol... if we by accident got pregnant... I've always claimed we did NOT have sex with the intention of having babies. Just with the attention of showing each other our love. Did this ever occur to you? Pregnancy =/ the sole reason of sex He's just saying that if you get her pregnant, don't bitch and moan and blame the world. Suck it up. | ||
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Tektos
Australia1321 Posts
On September 19 2011 13:48 BarbieHsu wrote: He's just saying that if you get her pregnant, don't bitch and moan and blame the world. Suck it up. No he isn't, he's specifically saying people shouldn't have sex unless they're ready and willing to have a child, which is ridiculous! | ||
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sunprince
United States2258 Posts
On September 19 2011 12:32 Perdac Curall wrote: A bunch of British scientists got together in the 1900s and concluded "scientifically" that the earth was overpopulated as well. It was called the science of eugenics. It was oligarchal Malthusian thinking when Giammaria Ortes set the "carrying capacity" of the planet at 3 billion people in 1790, it was Malthusian when it was called eugenics, and it is Malthusian today. If you're seriously arguing that the joint statement of the worldwide academies of science is somehow a eugenics conspiracy, then you're an idiot and we have nothing more to talk about. On September 19 2011 12:32 Perdac Curall wrote: Nevermind the fact that mankind can use his creative mind to overcome resource constraints, the population statistics themselves prove the fallacy of overpopulation. There is no major country or region on earth today that is predicted to have a birth rate of 2.1 or above by 2050, and that includes India and China. Europe's birthrate is as low as 1.3 in some countries already, and averages around 1.7. World population is estimated to stabilize around 9 billion and then begin to decline over the next 5 decades. There is absolutely no population crisis. You don't get it. The reason that the population will stabilize at around 9 billion and then decline because that is the point at which the planet will no longer have enough resources to sustain additional population growth. The thing is, reaching that point results in a dramatic decrease in the quality of life. | ||
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nukeazerg
United States168 Posts
On September 19 2011 12:34 yandere991 wrote: Quite simple. The large baby boomer generation is going to retire soon and with their god damn low birth rates there's going to be a relatively large amount of pensioners and a relatively low amount of workers to support them. An upside down population pyramid that will fuck up the economy. Superannuation might alleviate some of this. Australia changed their laws to prevent anchor babies and then started paying this baby bonus. America needs to do these two things. Children from established American families are needed to provide the resources for the care of the elderly. | ||
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PraiseB
Australia135 Posts
On September 18 2011 20:08 Ropid wrote: The child is innocent in all of this, and he/she is who the payments are for. Use a condom or vasectomy. Just make sure they get the local anesthetic done right. God was that a pain full day, at least I dented the wall. | ||
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macil222
United States113 Posts
On September 19 2011 05:21 Mentalizor wrote: The question is not wether the money is spent on the child or not... It's a question about the male not having a choise wether or not he wants to pay. Either he will father the child. Raise it and everything. Or else he will not want the child - in which case he will pay 3,600$ * 18 years (I reckon) which turns out to be 64,800$. Is it fair that IN THE CASE OF THE FATHER NOT WANTING THE CHILD the woman can still claim 64,800$? Where in the opposite case... the father wanting it - but the mother doesn't... She will "just" have an abortion... I have a hard time seeing the equality. Either way - if a woman is pregnant... She gets the upper hand. I'm not saying women by any means are superior in society - but at this particular point - men really need a chance to get some legal rights. People are correctly pointing out the inequality but I think it is sad that the focus is on bringing men down to the level of women rather than putting an end to the notion of destroying "unwanted" children. How about instead of asking that men can abandon children to single mothers or asking that they be destroyed we could ask that both men and women be responsible for the children that they produce. Why should the right to have random sex with strangers trump the rights of the children? Not that legal abortion protects the right to have free sex, it just takes away potential "consequences" on the part of women. The whole notion of abortion, whether actual physical abortions or these so-called financial abortions just promotes the idea that unmitigated sex is what is important, and the lives that are produced are just nuisances. | ||
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gosuMalicE
Canada676 Posts
On September 18 2011 20:43 PrideNeverDie wrote: what about the child who is killed through a woman's choice to abort. if you are going to use the "child is innocent" argument to force men into financial obligation, shouldn't you first use the argument to stop women from killing innocent children? i agree that forcing women to abort due to the father's wishes should not be considered, but what about the financial obligations? An abortion inst "killing" anything per say a fetus is not a sentient object, could I "kill" a potato? | ||
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annYeong(o11)
Canada784 Posts
This is a right granted to women - the right to choose whether or not to pay for a baby in the case of an unwanted pregnancy - but not to men. IMO the answer is pretty clear based on gender equality - whoever wants the baby pays for the child support. And I think all this is decided at the point when the child is born, after that if only the women wants the child, then the father isn't asked for child support, if they both want the baby, then both parents will support the child. I don't mean to sound cruel or callous, I just don't want to see a baby used as a financial weapon. | ||
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