On September 20 2011 10:22 Tor wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2011 09:36 Dark_Chill wrote:On September 18 2011 23:01 grOuSe wrote:
When you have sex you take a risk and if you not willing to accept that risk and everything that goes with it you are a pathetic excuse for a man.
Please understand the same can be said about the woman. Sex happens due to both parties reaching an agreement to do said act. i.e both parties are responsible.
No, I don't think that just because it is her body, she has the choice to override the male's decision. Her body is apart of her "life", and the man who does not want or did not want the child has to give a portion of his "life" as well to support this child.
If she wants this child knowing that the male does not want it and she knows that the male had no urge to impregnate her, the responsibility should fall completely on her.
I may sound like an ass-hole, but this is my opinion and I believe a mutual respect for both the male and female's wishes should be respected
Except your decision is predicated on the idea that abortion has no costs. And it assumes that the woman actually has a choice in keeping the child.
Consider this, generally when you give up your child for adoption, you do not have to pay child support. Your logic is sound and neither the man or the woman are required to pay for the child.
So lets assume abortions are free and fast and easy and noone is hurt by them. Your logic is sound, as the woman then can easily decide whether to keep the child or not and she gets to base the decision on whether or not the man wants to help out. Although there are still moral and ethical questions raised by abandoning a child, at least everyone had a fair choice and understood the consequences. (I imagine this utopia of risk free irresponsible sex could happen in some enlightened future filled with the best abortion techniques that could ever be devised)
However, if we assume that abortions do cause pain ranging from physical (whether or not the physical pain is worse than child birth, the illusion of pain/side affects removes choice just as much as real pain/side affects) to psychological to being completely alienated from your family etc. and we assume that they do cost money, are not always available and simply cannot be chosen do to antithetical beliefs, then your logic that it was the womans choice to keep the child is flawed.
Keep in mind that just because it feels like a man has no choice in whether the child is born or not, that does not mean the man has no choice or at least does not mean he should have no choice. I believe that a man should have some influence as to whether an abortion takes place both in terms of him deciding he would want to raise the child on his own, or in terms of him deciding he cannot handle being a part of the childs life. But in order for people to be protected, some overarching laws must be kept in place, and these laws are best made so that both partners engaging in sexual intercourse accept the responsibility of any accidental child to be born.
Those advocating for abortion as birth control need to understand that this unfairly endangers women by not holding men responsible for the unquantifiable hardships of EITHER abortion OR single parenthood. If you condone a society where a man does not have to consider the risks of impregnating a woman, and that woman has to be the sole individual responsible for any accidental pregnancies, you are BY DEFINITION condoning a society that provides more protection for men than women. Not only that, it actually forces women away from having carefree sex (WHICH IS WHAT WE ALL WANT) and forces them to worry more about the incredible burden that accidental pregnancy can cause.
tl;dr? Quit assuming women have the choice to abort, quit assuming abortion does not have any costs associated with it, and understand that men need to be held equally responsible for pregnancy AT THE POINT OF CONCEPTION in order to protect women from being abused by men who would have nothing to fear from irresponible sex forcing all the burden of fear on the woman, in addition to the many other reasons i've provided in multiple posts.
edit:
PS: any talk of women raping men and claiming child support is a flaw with the legal system and not an example of why women should hold all responsibility for getting pregnant. Men will have much more control over getting women pregnant when a male pill equivalent is derived and you won't have to worry nearly as much about getting raped by women, as i'm sure that is the great fear of men in this day and age.
EPT
