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On September 19 2011 11:42 MattBarry wrote:
In a 100% logical environment this makes sense.
But abortions really get people worked up for some reason.
Somebodies life being executed/dismembered should be taken seriously. If you made the mistake of opening up your legs without protection or knew the condom broke and did not take Plan B directly after then it is nobodies fault but your own (I am talking to the the ladies). Abortion should be illegal if you really look at the clear cut picture and disect the definition of what abortion is.
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On September 20 2011 00:04 Iyerbeth wrote:
Well you see your honour, yes it was my gun, and yes I did load it and it's true I aimed it in to his face and I even pulled the trigger but I didn't mean for him to die! How can I be responsible for murder??? Surely he's partially to blame for not having a skull made out of solid steel installed! I can't be expected to have my next 20 years ruined because of something he *chose* not to do.
The above is pretty much how I see this.
Seeing as we're talking about a case in which the man doesn't want the child, we must assume protection was used. Therefore I'd say it's more like:
Yes it was my gun, and yes I checked that it wasn't loaded but one round just happen to have stuck at the back of the gun, where I couldn't have seen it without physically opening the entire weapon(as a side note, this can actually happen in some assault weapons, and there have been a few such cases in which the weapon unintentionally exploded/shot the bullet). And it's true I didn't aim it to his face, but he placed the gun on the corner of the table and when I fell I knocked it over, completely breaking the safety mechanism and the weapon shot even though the safety was on! How can I be responsible for murder???
That's how I see it - you took the proper precautions, and yet a few months later you're left standing around, looking up and saying "good one".
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Oh by the way, if you are a supporter of the "keep things the way they are now" or "man up and deal with it".
Type "how do i secretly" into google searchbar and see the first option that comes up.
THESE PEOPLE EXIST.
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I might be considered old-fashioned and this has nothing to do with religion either but if you're old enough to have sex you're old enough to deal with a potential kid - end of (my) story.
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On September 20 2011 00:26 Klipsys wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On September 20 2011 00:04 Iyerbeth wrote:
OK so this argument is fairly silly in my opinion. I try to pay attention to male rights issues as and when they come up (though often working through the crazies is hard) but this one is just plain absurd.
Well you see your honour, yes it was my gun, and yes I did load it and it's true I aimed it in to his face and I even pulled the trigger but I didn't mean for him to die! How can I be responsible for murder??? Surely he's partially to blame for not having a skull made out of solid steel installed! I can't be expected to have my next 20 years ruined because of something he *chose* not to do.
The above is pretty much how I see this.
OK, so first if this change was made it would essentially lead to a "your problem now!" issue occurring probably not infrequently. That would cause far more problems than there are current situations that maybe don't make complete sense.
Second, why are people having irresponsible sex and not considering the after effects? I'm not saying no one has ever made a mistake but there's always just not having sex unprotected and there are morning after pills if something does go wrong.
To address the issue at the core of this, no you shouldn't have a right to just risk creating another life cuz it felt nice and then have no responsibility for it. If you're in a relationship you should both know where you stand on the issue ahead of time so you can make an informed decision and if you're having a one night stand, first that's your problem and second in 99% of cases she's going to make sure you're wearing a condom.
Finally you should have no right to mandate an abortion for a woman, nor should you have a right to leave her with a kid because you decide it's not for you. Neither should you be able to force another kid in to the state's care so you can continue having care free sex. You made the decision, it was your responsibility to know the risks and so supporting that child is your responsibility. Pay up, or grow up.
Now with the negativity out of the way, there are some things that are currently wrong.
First, if a woman impregnates herself without your knowledge (I'm sure this is an urban legend, the logistics are just mind boggling, but still) then that should be considered a crime and at that point the man shouldn't be held responsible. Equally if it was in any way forced (in some way rape) then that should also be considered a crime for which the man is not responsible.
Second, the more important case about child support should be who takes care of the child generally, the current situation at least here is a terrible mother is preferential to a loving father by default and you go from there. That's wrong in my opinion.
Finally blanket payment requirements are a little too rigid and they should be carefully considered for everyone's individual cases. So I should prepare to have a child with every women I have sex with? That's insane. The entire point of this thread is that women don't have to accept that same limitation because they can have an abortion, whereas men are stuck regardless of their own interests. There needs to be a way for men to opt-out of raising a child. The bottom line is it happens anyway, so I really don't see what the big deal is. If a women has a random one night stand and gets pregnant and wants to keep it, that's her problem. Let's say the opposite is true. (Women doesn't want a kid, man does) Can I force her to not have an abortion? So men are basically fucked either way? So Sex for men is an inherent risk whereas for women it's merely an inconvenience? I've know women who've gotten DOZENS of abortions, but no one tells them to stop having sex. A guy knocks a girl up and is smart enough to know he isn't ready for something like that, and everyone claims he's a deadbeat. Insane Bullshit and completely unfair.
lol bro, the only way a man could "opt out" of raising a child is to have some foolish woman sign a contract indicating that if she becomes pregnant by your semen, you are exempt from providing child support. I don't even know if that would work. It seems like the only legitimate way of getting out of such a financial crisis (if possible).
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On September 20 2011 00:26 Klipsys wrote:
So I should prepare to have a child with every women I have sex with?
Yeah, that's pretty much it. You don't have to carry it for nine months or undergo a medical procedure or risk complications and death, so I think being responsible with when and who you have sex with isn't really asking much.
On September 20 2011 00:26 Klipsys wrote:
That's insane. The entire point of this thread is that women don't have to accept that same limitation because they can have an abortion, whereas men are stuck regardless of their own interests. There needs to be a way for men to opt-out of raising a child. The bottom line is it happens anyway, so I really don't see what the big deal is. If a women has a random one night stand and gets pregnant and wants to keep it, that's her problem.
There is a way for men to opt out of raising a child, they either don't have sex, or they pay child support. They still don't have to do 99% of the work then. You also speak of abortion like it's some "oh I'm just popping in to get an abortion on my way home, so sort yourself dinner tonight, thanks" kinda thing. No woman in her right mind is going to want to have an abortion and as both a man and a couple you have the easiest method of avoiding them possible.
Without meaning to be crude, you'd be surprised how easy it is to not stick your thing in to a woman. If you don't want to be in a committed relationship that might involve kids it's your responsibility to say no.
On September 20 2011 00:26 Klipsys wrote:
Let's say the opposite is true. (Women doesn't want a kid, man does) Can I force her to not have an abortion? So men are basically fucked either way? So Sex for men is an inherent risk whereas for women it's merely an inconvenience? I've know women who've gotten DOZENS of abortions, but no one tells them to stop having sex. A guy knocks a girl up and is smart enough to know he isn't ready for something like that, and everyone claims he's a deadbeat. Insane
Bullshit and completely unfair.
It's a risk for both, it's not like a woman doesn't have to put anything at all in to getting an abortion, having the child or raising it. Any solution that involves forcing someone else through surgery or forcing someone in to a possibly fatal incident can be no one's decision but their own, regardless of if someone has to pay a fair amount towards the upkeep of what was at least 50% their decision at one point.
Sex is a risk, you don't get to transfer all of it to the woman just because she can undergo surgery to make your life easier later on.
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On September 20 2011 00:32 Calliopee wrote:
I might be considered old-fashioned and this has nothing to do with religion either but if you're old enough to have sex you're old enough to deal with a potential kid - end of (my) story.
And that's all she wrote. Good stuff
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On September 20 2011 00:29 BlazeFury01 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 19 2011 11:42 MattBarry wrote:
In a 100% logical environment this makes sense.
But abortions really get people worked up for some reason. Somebodies life being executed/dismembered should be taken seriously. If you made the mistake of opening up your legs without protection or knew the condom broke and did not take Plan B directly after then it is nobodies fault but your own (I am talking to the the ladies). Abortion should be illegal if you really look at the clear cut picture and disect the definition of what abortion is.
So basically, because you believe that abortion should be illegal, then it means that women should go through pregnancy and make economic and physical hardship while being pregnant. Abortion is allowed because the Supreme Court correctly decided that a woman has control over her own body and by banning abortion, you make the woman a slave to some other human being. A human baby and human fetus are instinctual creatures. There's no memory inside of them. I never had awareness inside the womb and you didn't have awareness either.
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On September 20 2011 00:36 Iyerbeth wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2011 00:26 Klipsys wrote:
So I should prepare to have a child with every women I have sex with? Yeah, that's pretty much it. You don't have to carry it for nine months or undergo a medical procedure or risk complications and death, so I think being responsible with when and who you have sex with isn't really asking much. Show nested quote +On September 20 2011 00:26 Klipsys wrote:
That's insane. The entire point of this thread is that women don't have to accept that same limitation because they can have an abortion, whereas men are stuck regardless of their own interests. There needs to be a way for men to opt-out of raising a child. The bottom line is it happens anyway, so I really don't see what the big deal is. If a women has a random one night stand and gets pregnant and wants to keep it, that's her problem. There is a way for men to opt out of raising a child, they either don't have sex, or they pay child support. They still don't have to do 99% of the work then. You also speak of abortion like it's some "oh I'm just popping in to get an abortion on my way home, so sort yourself dinner tonight, thanks" kinda thing. No woman in her right mind is going to want to have an abortion and as both a man and a couple you have the easiest method of avoiding them possible. Without meaning to be crude, you'd be surprised how easy it is to not stick your thing in to a woman. If you don't want to be in a committed relationship that might involve kids it's your responsibility to say no. Show nested quote +On September 20 2011 00:26 Klipsys wrote:
Let's say the opposite is true. (Women doesn't want a kid, man does) Can I force her to not have an abortion? So men are basically fucked either way? So Sex for men is an inherent risk whereas for women it's merely an inconvenience? I've know women who've gotten DOZENS of abortions, but no one tells them to stop having sex. A guy knocks a girl up and is smart enough to know he isn't ready for something like that, and everyone claims he's a deadbeat. Insane
Bullshit and completely unfair.
It's a risk for both, it's not like a woman doesn't have to put anything at all in to getting an abortion, having the child or raising it. Any solution that involves forcing someone else through surgery or forcing someone in to a possibly fatal incident can be no one's decision but their own, regardless of if someone has to pay a fair amount towards the upkeep of what was at least 50% their decision at one point. Sex is a risk, you don't get to transfer all of it to the woman just because she can undergo surgery to make your life easier later on.
You are right about sex being a risk, not only for pregnancy but also for STDs.
Children and adults alike, if you are reading this "USE PROTECTION" it will save you a world of headaches and life altering experiences.
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On September 20 2011 00:19 CCitrus wrote:
Men should only be exempt from dealing with their children if the woman deceived the man to get pregnant or refused to use birth control. Otherwise, it is a man's responsibility to contribute financially to the child's life. For example, if a woman refused to use a condom it would absolve the man's responsibility.
The problem is that it is very rare that we can be certain that pregnancy is impossible. Just because a woman has sex doesn't mean she gives her consent to raise a child any more than the man did. Neither does it mean she gives her consent to an abortion. The chance nature of pregnancy means that in having sex, both the man and the woman must accept that pregnancy (and contributing to a child financially) is a possibility and a responsibility. With that said, it is also both party's right to demand thorough birth control.
I don't think I need to address the idea of mandated abortion.
you are pretty hardcore retarded, WHY? why should it ever be a task statued to man. and stupid punks like you annoy me for real. U guys delibertly claim that feminism is good and that everyone should have equal rights in all terms such as laber prosperity, and so on with the bullshit. how does what u claim fit in with the feminisms arguement? it does not and is always dodged and this is the reason i hate feminism because it isnt about equal rights its about women having double standards that only reize theyre profitable potentional. u cant have it both ways, or should not be able to. And it is because of men like u women can have it theyre way anyway anytime and anyhow cuz u are a little pussy ur self. perfect example of the redudant tool.
and despite all of this u still claim that feminism is working towards equallity how often do u see signs, taughts or even desideratum of with answer the following questions?
Do you work to abolish alimony?
Do you encourage equality in regards of child custody togheter with abort?
Do you even work agaisnt feminists who are men haters?
lets put it into a sc2 formed post, versatilty existed amongst zerg and got removed (infestor nerf), but in this case the double standard is stronger than ever and is not gonna change no matter what.
what is even more fun is that im gonna be called a misogynist for this 
/excuse the poor english and typos im in a hurry
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Men have a choice, use a condom
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On September 20 2011 00:38 DetriusXii wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2011 00:29 BlazeFury01 wrote:On September 19 2011 11:42 MattBarry wrote:
In a 100% logical environment this makes sense.
But abortions really get people worked up for some reason. Somebodies life being executed/dismembered should be taken seriously. If you made the mistake of opening up your legs without protection or knew the condom broke and did not take Plan B directly after then it is nobodies fault but your own (I am talking to the the ladies). Abortion should be illegal if you really look at the clear cut picture and disect the definition of what abortion is. So basically, because you believe that abortion should be illegal, then it means that women should go through pregnancy and make economic and physical hardship while being pregnant. Abortion is allowed because the Supreme Court correctly decided that a woman has control over her own body and by banning abortion, you make the woman a slave to some other human being. A human baby and human fetus are instinctual creatures. There's no memory inside of them. I never had awareness inside the womb and you didn't have awareness either.
[/QUOTE]you make the woman a slave to some other human being.[QUOTE]
The woman made herself a slave the second she decided to open her legs without protection. It's he own fault.
[Quote]A human baby and human fetus are instinctual creatures. There's no memory inside of them. I never had awareness inside the womb and you didn't have awareness either.[/QUOTE]
Science is proven wrong daily. Just because nobody remembers being inside the fetus doesn't mean the memory of it never existed. If humans could retain a vivid memory of everything they have experienced, I would believe you. But Humans forget things and well, that's what makes us human. So, your saying a fetus is less human?
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On September 20 2011 00:36 Iyerbeth wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2011 00:26 Klipsys wrote:
So I should prepare to have a child with every women I have sex with? Yeah, that's pretty much it. You don't have to carry it for nine months or undergo a medical procedure or risk complications and death, so I think being responsible with when and who you have sex with isn't really asking much. Show nested quote +On September 20 2011 00:26 Klipsys wrote:
That's insane. The entire point of this thread is that women don't have to accept that same limitation because they can have an abortion, whereas men are stuck regardless of their own interests. There needs to be a way for men to opt-out of raising a child. The bottom line is it happens anyway, so I really don't see what the big deal is. If a women has a random one night stand and gets pregnant and wants to keep it, that's her problem. There is a way for men to opt out of raising a child, they either don't have sex, or they pay child support. They still don't have to do 99% of the work then. You also speak of abortion like it's some "oh I'm just popping in to get an abortion on my way home, so sort yourself dinner tonight, thanks" kinda thing. No woman in her right mind is going to want to have an abortion and as both a man and a couple you have the easiest method of avoiding them possible. Without meaning to be crude, you'd be surprised how easy it is to not stick your thing in to a woman. If you don't want to be in a committed relationship that might involve kids it's your responsibility to say no.
So let me get this straight.
Men have to abstain from having sex and the only option they deserve is, Yes, I'll have sex and care for our child should you get pregnant and you want to keep the baby or No, we cannot have sex. Yet, women get to say yes/no to sex and then again, gets to decide all completely on her own accord yes/no to keep the baby and make you pay for it?
You say it's the man's responsibility to say NO if he doesn't want to risk a committed relationship with kids, but by doing so are acknowledging it's not the woman's responsibility to say no, because SHE can end the pregnancy, plan B, abortion, whatever. So women get the 'right' to have sex whenever, and where ever they want because they get to be the sole deciders in keeping/raising a kid?
Little bit silly.
:boggle:
*unrelated to your post but however found that google fill in, well done. Search... 'How do i secretly.. 'get pregnant' first most common request into google. And people wonder why this issue is so debated. hah.
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On September 20 2011 00:36 Iyerbeth wrote:
There is a way for men to opt out of raising a child, they either don't have sex, or they pay child support. They still don't have to do 99% of the work then. You also speak of abortion like it's some "oh I'm just popping in to get an abortion on my way home, so sort yourself dinner tonight, thanks" kinda thing. No woman in her right mind is going to want to have an abortion and as both a man and a couple you have the easiest method of avoiding them possible.
Without meaning to be crude, you'd be surprised how easy it is to not stick your thing in to a woman. If you don't want to be in a committed relationship that might involve kids it's your responsibility to say no.
There is a way for women to have sex with anyone they want and still opt out of raising a child.
Reading your posts really makes my brain hurt because you exagerate everything to the extremes to try and show a point that isn't there. No, impregnating someone isn't the same as shooting someone with a riffle in the face, sorry. If you really think that yourself, please make it clear that that is actually your standpoint so people can rightfully ignore you. Otherwise stop making stupid exagerations and try to address the points raised instead.
Daimai said it much better than me:
The male should be able to decide if he wants to pay child support in case of an eventual child. Should he decide not to pay, he will have nothing to do with the child, it will not even exist in his eyes.
This decision has to be made while in the time where the woman still can abort the child (preferably even before it has happened) and there has to be some kind of proof, like a written contract or something.
I can't see how this can be bad in any scenario. Please tell me what could possibly be bad about this?
On a side note: If peope are against abortion I can understand why they are against this. That makes perfect sense. But I'm assuming that we are talking about this in the context of modern western society and not the 1300 Dark Ages so that shouldn't be a problem. Don't turn this into a discussion about abortion, that has no place here.
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It makes sense to be so but then again is still forcing someone to undergo a surgery ( unless there is another safe method to abort that im no aware of )... i believe many countries might be against that.
Secondly i haven't saw this argument to much but there are a lot of religious ppl or even non-religious ppl who would agree that a fetus is a "person", i personally disagree with that but they are entitled to there option and they for a majority in some countries.
So in the next 50-70 years while there is still a risk to undergo that surgery ( even if its proly top 10 lowest risk anesthetic requiring surgery .... its still a risk ) and while ppl like the above still form such a large portion of each countries population i believe its simply impractical.
Also props to whoever found the " How do i secretly... " thing.... never thought id see that o.o
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On September 20 2011 00:36 Iyerbeth wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2011 00:26 Klipsys wrote:
So I should prepare to have a child with every women I have sex with? Yeah, that's pretty much it. You don't have to carry it for nine months or undergo a medical procedure or risk complications and death, so I think being responsible with when and who you have sex with isn't really asking much.
How many girls that you've slept with would you be comfortable raising a child with? Maybe you were dating differently in high-school, but I didn't exactly look for the most motherly women on the cheer leading squad.
Sorry but I disagree. I don't understand how you can force someone who doesn't want a child to be a father? It's bad for the child and for the dad. This obsession we have with this nonsensical notion of "sanctity of life" is insane! Uncared for children are only a problem if they're allowed to be born.
On September 20 2011 00:26 Klipsys wrote:
That's insane. The entire point of this thread is that women don't have to accept that same limitation because they can have an abortion, whereas men are stuck regardless of their own interests. There needs to be a way for men to opt-out of raising a child. The bottom line is it happens anyway, so I really don't see what the big deal is. If a women has a random one night stand and gets pregnant and wants to keep it, that's her problem.
There is a way for men to opt out of raising a child, they either don't have sex, or they pay child support. They still don't have to do 99% of the work then. You also speak of abortion like it's some "oh I'm just popping in to get an abortion on my way home, so sort yourself dinner tonight, thanks" kinda thing. No woman in her right mind is going to want to have an abortion and as both a man and a couple you have the easiest method of avoiding them possible.
Without meaning to be crude, you'd be surprised how easy it is to not stick your thing in to a woman. If you don't want to be in a committed relationship that might involve kids it's your responsibility to say no.
Again this comes down to, don't have sex with women you wouldn't want kids with. So I should never have sex because I don't want kids? I'm forced to get a vasectomy "just in case" she's a raving lunatic who's on some god binge and is convinced raising a child while working part time at Fridays is a good idea?
Guys, let's be realistic. A forced father is almost never as good as an intentional one. This is about the child ultimately, why should they be forced to live a shitty life as a burden because their mom decided it be a good idea to wing it and hope dad would foot the bill? I honestly think the ability to breed freely should be removed somehow form humans. The ability to create life is simply too powerful for most people to handle.
On September 20 2011 00:26 Klipsys wrote:
Let's say the opposite is true. (Women doesn't want a kid, man does) Can I force her to not have an abortion? So men are basically fucked either way? So Sex for men is an inherent risk whereas for women it's merely an inconvenience? I've know women who've gotten DOZENS of abortions, but no one tells them to stop having sex. A guy knocks a girl up and is smart enough to know he isn't ready for something like that, and everyone claims he's a deadbeat. Insane
Bullshit and completely unfair.
It's a risk for both, it's not like a woman doesn't have to put anything at all in to getting an abortion, having the child or raising it. Any solution that involves forcing someone else through surgery or forcing someone in to a possibly fatal incident can be no one's decision but their own, regardless of if someone has to pay a fair amount towards the upkeep of what was at least 50% their decision at one point.
Sex is a risk, you don't get to transfer all of it to the woman just because she can undergo surgery to make your life easier later on.
The point is sex shouldn't be a risk!
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On September 20 2011 01:28 Klipsys wrote:
The point is sex shouldn't be a risk!
And here we come to it.... This one little sentence encompasses everything that is wrong with American society today: a lack of self-accountability and a steadfast refusal to accept the consequences of our actions.
Seriously, just put on a fucking condom and be done with it. Using abortion as a means of birth control is reprehensible, and should only be done in exigent circumstances.
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The point is sex shouldn't be a risk!
Did your parents never teach you life isn't usually fair according to your personal definition of what fair is?
Here is a question: Let's assume that you get laid and the girl gets pregnant and this arrangement absolving you of all responsibility exists, and you both sign up to this arrangement.
A year after the baby is born you discover that the mother is neglecting it, or that despite doing all she can she and the baby are not doing so well. It grows up in a life of poverty.
If you were that baby, what view would you take as an adult as to what your father did?
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On September 20 2011 01:28 Klipsys wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2011 00:36 Iyerbeth wrote:On September 20 2011 00:26 Klipsys wrote:
So I should prepare to have a child with every women I have sex with? Yeah, that's pretty much it. You don't have to carry it for nine months or undergo a medical procedure or risk complications and death, so I think being responsible with when and who you have sex with isn't really asking much. How many girls that you've slept with would you be comfortable raising a child with? Maybe you were dating differently in high-school, but I didn't exactly look for the most motherly women on the cheer leading squad. Sorry but I disagree. I don't understand how you can force someone who doesn't want a child to be a father? It's bad for the child and for the dad. This obsession we have with this nonsensical notion of "sanctity of life" is insane! Uncared for children are only a problem if they're allowed to be born. Show nested quote +On September 20 2011 00:26 Klipsys wrote:
That's insane. The entire point of this thread is that women don't have to accept that same limitation because they can have an abortion, whereas men are stuck regardless of their own interests. There needs to be a way for men to opt-out of raising a child. The bottom line is it happens anyway, so I really don't see what the big deal is. If a women has a random one night stand and gets pregnant and wants to keep it, that's her problem. Show nested quote +
There is a way for men to opt out of raising a child, they either don't have sex, or they pay child support. They still don't have to do 99% of the work then. You also speak of abortion like it's some "oh I'm just popping in to get an abortion on my way home, so sort yourself dinner tonight, thanks" kinda thing. No woman in her right mind is going to want to have an abortion and as both a man and a couple you have the easiest method of avoiding them possible.
Without meaning to be crude, you'd be surprised how easy it is to not stick your thing in to a woman. If you don't want to be in a committed relationship that might involve kids it's your responsibility to say no.
Again this comes down to, don't have sex with women you wouldn't want kids with. So I should never have sex because I don't want kids? I'm forced to get a vasectomy "just in case" she's a raving lunatic who's on some god binge and is convinced raising a child while working part time at Fridays is a good idea? Guys, let's be realistic. A forced father is almost never as good as an intentional one. This is about the child ultimately, why should they be forced to live a shitty life as a burden because their mom decided it be a good idea to wing it and hope dad would foot the bill? I honestly think the ability to breed freely should be removed somehow form humans. The ability to create life is simply too powerful for most people to handle. Show nested quote +On September 20 2011 00:26 Klipsys wrote:
Let's say the opposite is true. (Women doesn't want a kid, man does) Can I force her to not have an abortion? So men are basically fucked either way? So Sex for men is an inherent risk whereas for women it's merely an inconvenience? I've know women who've gotten DOZENS of abortions, but no one tells them to stop having sex. A guy knocks a girl up and is smart enough to know he isn't ready for something like that, and everyone claims he's a deadbeat. Insane
Bullshit and completely unfair.
Show nested quote +
It's a risk for both, it's not like a woman doesn't have to put anything at all in to getting an abortion, having the child or raising it. Any solution that involves forcing someone else through surgery or forcing someone in to a possibly fatal incident can be no one's decision but their own, regardless of if someone has to pay a fair amount towards the upkeep of what was at least 50% their decision at one point.
Sex is a risk, you don't get to transfer all of it to the woman just because she can undergo surgery to make your life easier later on.
The point is sex shouldn't be a risk!
lol dude bad decisions are the risk not sex.
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On September 20 2011 02:10 DeepElemBlues wrote:Did your parents never teach you life isn't usually fair according to your personal definition of what fair is?
Birds and the beeeeeeeees
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EPT
